Haditha, who knew what and when

It is my devout, daily hope and prayer to see George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld someday tried for war crimes against humanity. Sadly, with every day that passes, those crimes seem to grow. When Bush promises investigation, that is like saying that the disease will investigate itself.

God help us, and forgive this country the direction it's leadership (and Bush as Commander in Chief IS the 'buck stops here' end of the chain of command)is going.

My heart bleeds not only for the dead in Iraq but also for the young men who participated in the masssacre. It is disheartening that we are sending innocent young people to be turned into killers.

It happened on November 19.
Rumsfeld and Pace first learned of it on March 10/.

Huh?

Ladies and Gentlemen there are 'Rules of Engagement' and there is mass murder. How different is this behavious than from the Nazis in occupied Europe?

This kind of lack of discipline will further turn the world against the US occupation of Iraq. Heavily armed, and 'well trained' soldiers going on a rampage and killing civilians in their own country is just not acceptable.

What were they thinking?

It reminds of similar incidents in the Vietnam war towards the end and also corresponding ones in the Kashmir and Nagaland engagements in India. It is easy to find faullt with the GIs but if we do not appreciate the terrible tensions under which they are there mere fining fault and may be handing some of them(if it comes to that) would not help much. Similar incidents will happen in similar situations in future.While we should no doubt shed tears for the innocent,Iraqui civilians, we should also spare some thought for the soldiers. Soldiers are not mere massacre machines eventhough they sometimes act as such and the ones at the receiving end are there own collelagues. The only lasting solution is to bring this sorry Iraqui chapter to an early end and ensure that it is not repeated.

Damn Iraqis better get used to democracy.
We shoot first, ask later if at all.

Anything that Times reports on is so biased towards the left that ever word must be backed-up with facts. Period.

The Chain of Command is broken in Iraq.Your seeing gang signs.Drinking is now a past time.Reports of troops with PTSD on Meds like Prozac.Three to Four deployments breaks our troops.Rumsfeld is the Top Man the Buck has to stop with him.Its going to take years to have our military back in tip top shape.Now if you hear the same talk has started about Iran .Our troops are not ready for any more big battles.

The 9/11 'investigation', the energy-policy conference chaired by Cheney and fought all the way through a 'loaded' Supreme court to shield it from exposure to the American public, the various other 'investigations' (including the thwarted probe into pre-war claims about Iraq), ad nauseatum...

Why anyone would have any confidence in any 'investigation' called for or promised by George W. Bush is beyond the understanding of all Americans except those who have truly morphed into mushrooms.

C. Davie

While we all feel for the Iraqi victims, the good news is that there will be an investigation and trial. Of course it will be a military tribunal, so some of the commentators here won't be able to convict them without evidence, as much as they'd like.

I'm from that generation who fought in a war where the 'vengeance slaughter' of un-armed non-combatants by occupying troops was done by troops like the Hitler SS at Lidice, Czechoslovakia, or in France or Tojo's Japanese at Nanking.

Truly this sort of conduct puts Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld on the same level as Hitler, Reinhard Heydrich, Yamashita and their ilk.

The only sensible course is to listen to John Murtha and dis-engage.

Albert Davie

I'd like to see all of you civilians, who are sitting in your free country, in your nice air-conditioned homes griping, criticizing, and bashing our government, military, and policies, have the delightful opportunity to travel to a foreign land, forget all that you know about convenience, talk to a people who can't speak your language, live in a culture that you've never experienced, and not be able to see your sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, mothers and fathers for an entire year. One year of giving up all that you know for a country that is voicing its opinion AGAINST YOU! Not to mention have people constantly trying to kill you, blow you up, shoot at you, and decapitate you. We'll see how your pampered, materialistic, selfish lifestyle and mental condition will be affected.

Don't target the soldier, marine, airman, or seaman. They are prepared to give the ultimate sacrifice for their country, their families, and even you, the reader.

Support them, please. It's the least you can do with your freedoms that were granted to you by all of the service members who had given the ultimate sacrifice against evil.

Also, if you have been to Iraq, you know that reality is far from the perception given by the media. They are just trying to make a dollar. What we are doing there is truly helping a nation. Saddam was a brutal dictator. If you didn't cooperate with him, you found your family dead when you came home from work. Ask the civilian populace if they want us there. Some do, some don't. Ask them if they want us to leave. They'll tell you no. They know what they had before, and they sure as hell don't want to return to it. Thank you.

In response to Brandon M...: Nobody denigrates the sacrifices of our troops in the Iraq war, whether it is a justifiable war or not...Those troops who, regardless of the conditions under which they fight, resort to mercilessly killing 3-year-olds denigrate themselves and, indeed, the citizens of the U.S.A.

For you to say "we are trying to build a nation" is a bit off base and un-supportable when one is talking about the type of incident as is apparent at Haditha, six months ago.

Don't wave the flag as an excuse for acting like barbarians, Mr. Brandon M...I've been there, too, in a different time and in a different war.

And lets not try to bring up the Hiroshima/Nagasaki raids...Those truly were 'Shock and Awe' strikes to end a war and avoid continuing slaughter. I don't believe you (or anyone else) could say the same for Haditha.

Craig Davie

Somehow every time George the Lesser opens his mouth to speak to any unfavorable subject he reflects the tone of his administration. From the black robes who elected him to the minions he has surrounded himself with there isn't a real scintilla of decency among the whole crowd. From his token racial people to his ambitious friends who can only see the larcency of the American Dollar as their entire goal in life this has become the most corrupt bunch ever to occupy the seat of government in this once proud nation. How do we get out of this hundred years war George the dumbya got us into?

Support the troops. Bring them home. Now.

(to Brandon: Son, it's NOT those who joined our so-called volunteer armed forces with whom I have a complaint. It's with the warmongering chicken hawks who started this unnecessary, criminal adventure. Please get that straight. Thank you.)

Its a shame that a dictator is replaced by an authority that is killing more people than the dictator himself. Killing in all forms, is not good. Especially children. We all agree to this, I guess.

First, its not true when we say the media is biased, if the report is against the US. And its not biased, if it faults Saddam. I presume, the US army killed more people in the recent past than any worst dictator.

Just imagine, can Bush be tried for war crimes, for the Abu Ghraib, or Hadita. In all this trying Saddam with a bunch of buffons, is it good?

We want to hear what we think is correct. Its false, even if its real . I guess its time to get out of the eternal dream we are into.

We all understand a thing from experience "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction". Lets all rise against the political buffons who make us fools, try Saddam for oil.

Why do some people hate America and America's defenders so much? So much that they side with the Saddams and the Osamas of this world? Such attitudes (sometimes called "Bush Derangement Syndrome", or BDS) are more fitting for psychiatric counseling than for the arena of ideas.

There seems to some confusion on this board about the marines involved in the Haditha massacre. These men were not trained to be police, peacekeepers or diplomats. They are trained to kill and they are doing their job.

To Dale Peters: The chain of command is not broken, that is combat. Elaine states 'It is disheartening that we are sending innocent young people to be turned into killers'. Wake up. That is exactly what we do.

Haditha is only notable by number - that 25 were killed in a single day in a small precinct. This happens everyday over the country. Today in Iraq a pregnant woman rushing to hospital, a handicapped man, a 60 year old woman were all killed by US military. This is the price of war. Did anyone think it wouldn't happen?

When Bush, Cheney and Rumsfield wanted to go to war in Iraq in Feb 2003 80% of Americans supported that decision. If you have problems with 3 year-old girls, elderly men in wheelchairs etc etc been blown away, if it doesn't sit well with your Hollywood fantasies of only killing the bad guys, then don't blame Bush, Rummy, Cheney, The Marines, Pt English etc.

Just get a mirror.

Watch who you socialize with, kiddies. There are risks with hanging out with terrorists.

I love the way the terrorist-supporting folks have already convicted the troops. No wonder some are labeled as weak on security. They have more sympathy for the terrorists than those murdered via terrorist acts by Al Qaeda and Sadaam

War is hell, get used to it...especially since we will be there for at least another two years.

Freedom ain't free.

I love the typical "I support the Troop" BS from liberals. It is pretty evident that you do not.

While we all feel for the Iraqi victims, the good news is that there will be an investigation and trial. Of course it will be a military tribunal, so some of the commentators here won't be able to convict them without evidence, as much as they'd like.

Posted by: Bob McNear | Jun 1, 2006 7:33:15 PM

Have some more Kool Aid (tm), Bob. It's all good.

Brandon's comments are an interesting and indicative of the Bush/neocon mindset.

Criticism of the war and, more importantly, of the administration is viewed as treasonous.

I wonder if these people even realize how close they are to the repressive, Soviet-era regimes they claim to decry?

Surely, they have become the new thought police.

However wrong, atrocities in violation of war rules on engagement have happened since these rules were created.

What people like Dubya, Rummy and the gush-a-bush crowd don't seem to understand is that this is the kind of issue/story that our military needs to get out in front on in order to minimize the ramifications to our troops in Iraq and elsewhere.

Waiting until after the Haditha story broke to order our troops to re-take rules of engagement training was/is a major mistake.

Eek. Let's take a moment to stop bashing and name-calling in either direction... I think it is possible to support the individuals who are doing the bidding of their government (military personnel), and even support the foundations of said government (democracy), but not support the decisions made by said elected officials. There is such thing as nuance. It is also possible to change ones mind after learning new facts.

Notwithstanding, I still feel that this Administration and the key players involved should be held accountable for the actions (if that is indeed found to be the case) of any military personnel, especially the rank-and-file.

One can delegate authority, but they cannot delegate responsibility.

I am tired of hearing Saddam was a brutal dictator. Well, guess what? We put him there. The world is full of brutal dictactors, but you don't see Bush doing jack squat while people are being slaughtered in Africa. Moral hypocrisy is common currency among conservative right wingers and liberals alike.

Something like Haditha was inevitable. You can't put US forces in a no win situation. In fact, I don't think you could conceive of a more difficult situation.

It's getting worse.

They're now investigating three other "incidents," including more children shot in their heads.

There was no reason to assume Bush could manage a war any better than he could manage a natural disaster, the budget or any other of his many failures.

And, of course, Bin Laden still hasn't been captured.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060602/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_civilians_killed

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Military_sources_say_more_Iraq_killings_0602.html

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Graphic_photographs_show_bodies_of_civilians_0602.html

The Chain of Command is broke.And yes we combat vets are trained to kill.And we do!But its in all reports about troops on meds.The Chain of Command covered this up.But all you will see is enlisted men go down.My Lie same way only Kelly a Lt went down for that.Now look there are gang signs going up.If that happens the leadership of these men is broke.That from N.C.O to Officers.These kids are on their third depolyment.And DOD has said we have to see how these men act on meds like Prozac.As a combat vet any drug that slow you down get you killed or wounded.If you go down to your local drug store they will tell you Prozac changes you.

Support the Troops do ya lefties?

Sounds like you've got your "event" to drop the charade and show who you really are.

Worked in the Vietnam era.....not working this time.

Bruce, does this picture make you feel pangs of jealousy?

http://blog.reidreport.com/uploaded_images/mccain_bush-hug-713122.jpg

btw, what's it like being a so-called "twenty-nine percenter"?

"Why do some people hate America and America's defenders so much? So much that they side with the Saddams and the Osamas of this world? Such attitudes (sometimes called "Bush Derangement Syndrome", or BDS) are more fitting for psychiatric counseling than for the arena of ideas. (Bruce)

Remember back in the good old days of the Soviet Union the Party used to commit dissidents, or anyone who disagreed with the party line to psychiatric hospitals. Anyone that disagreed had to be nuts.

Sounds like the right wing is trying for the same solution.