Religious Right foes strike again

These guys are so late to the party (and probably religion for that matter) that they don't amount to a fly on the FRC's back. This is the equivalent of two or three YAFers holding a counter-protest to your average Cindy Sheahan roadshow filled with busloads of full-time "activists."

It's only taken the democrats ten years to find out that organizing religious voters works. Who knows? Maybe they'll have a real strategy in another 20.

Don't worry Bill...If the republicans are in power another 20 Years..there won't be any America left.

Ah, just think of all the wars, hatred and intolerance we wouldn't have if not for religion! What a concept!

It's crazy, but I don't know how I manage to keep from stealing, coveting or killing anyone...I'm not even a member of an organized cult!

For these types of groups, moral values never seem to extend to decisions relating to why our country goes to war or how we treat our prisoners of war (or enemy combatants, detainees, or whatever). Also, I didn't hear them speak out last week, when our president says, he doesn't know what an affront to human dignity is (so he needs to define what Article 3 of the Geneva Convention. Maybe all these issues will come up when George Bush and Alberto Gonzalez are at the "values voter summitt"? Don't think so.

John Wyatt
Lagrange, IL

Poor Bill R. - It is the general sense and intelligence of people such as you (as demonstrated by your razor-like observation) that helps to explain why the left is a continual failure. You have nothing of value to offer.

Bill,
Speaking of Cindy Sheahan:

If Dubya had gone out,and spoken to her when she was first down in Craford,regardless of whether or not he had spoken to her before,and said to her "I am sympathetic to your position,but I respectfully disagree with you.",Cindy Sheahan would not have a leg to stand on.

That's a big part of Dubya's problem,instead of dealing with people he doesn't like...ie..Iran....he just refuses to speak to the "little people".

Cindy Sheahan has sacrificed far more for her country than George W. Bush has his entire life.

I think she should continue to have a strong voice,and I love how the NEO-CONS try to brush her off as "just another activist."

Interesting how Frank James repeatedly calls one side the "religious right", but fails to call the other side the "religious left". Sad but typical bias from the "Swamp" chapter of the DNC.

Bill something for you to think about. Most of the Religious Right are Evangelicals who want the End Days do you

Bruce,
you sound like a sensitive baby. Why don't you have anything to offer except attacks on the messenger?

What a razor like observation! You too offer so much!

You know what, John E.? Let's put the cards on the table. We both know Cindy Sheahan is a tool being used by a political movement. She's more valuable to you and your ilk as a symbol than a human being so don't lecture me about her. If her son hadn't died the left wouldn't give her a second look.

The fact of the matter is she was a card-carrying activist symbol before she ever camped out with her crowd of Bush-haters at Crawford. I'm glad Bush didn't speak with her and I would've done the same thing. Would you be sympathetic to someone burning an effigy of you outside your house if you were the president?

Her husband divorced her for a reason when she started her crusade. I feel bad that she lost her son but we both know that the only value that has to the left is as a political symbol. If they had any decency they'd tell her to stop meeting with Hugo Chavez and go home and ask for a traditional forum with the president that other military families have had.

I wouldn't speak with a nuclear Iran, either. Remember all those treaties Hitler signed?

Bob..sorry my inteligence is not up to your obvious superior intellect, but if you value misleading the American people into a war and then proceed to make mistake after mistake such as disbanding the Iraqi army and police and create a terrorist problem when none existed before....then keep "your" values!

My dad can beat up your dad. Not only that, but I can spit farther than you can.

as a christian myself i doubt homosexuality and abortion are not much of an issue than that of the war on terrorism

Bill, perhaps the DNC didn't want to manipulate God in order to influence voters, unlike the GOP who uses the Bible as their weapon of choice.
I, for one, believe in Creation Care and taking care of the poor, two things also very important to true Christians. But since they aren't wedge issues, the GOP doesn't seem to care if the planet melts and the children starve. The "Right" should know it's wrong to beat people with a Bible they haven't read themselves.

Anyone here care to see the Pope as the next president of the U.S?
Or perhaps some Imam?
Anyone?

Bill...As one of JohnE's ilk..I must say that
Cindy Sheahan is not a symbol to me. She is a woman who lost her son in an ill choosen war
period. I believe you were the one who brought Cindy up. I think she may be more of a symbol to you than me.

As to Iran..never negotiate out of fear
never fear to negotiate
JFK

Beginning in the late 19th century, the Populists' and then later the Progressives' message was one of anti elitism, of animus towards the delicate, arrogant ruling class.

"The ruling class despises you", the message went. "Besides holding you in poverty they hold you in contempt. They mock your manner of speaking, of dressing, your forms of recreation and entertainment and they mock your religion." The liberal Democrats with FDR picked up that theme continued with it until the 1960s.

In the early 1970s that paradigm suddenly flipped. Now the wine sipping fey elitists are Liberal Democrats, and they are the ones who hold the working class in contempt , who mock their manner of speaking, of dressing, their forms of recreation and entertainment and their religion. You can see that trend often in this blog. The Republicans meanwhile endlessly remind the voters of that fact and defend the culture of the common man, thus reaping the political benefits.

At long last, after 30 + years of being off the radar, a few Democrats are rediscovering the idea that it's a bad politics to ignore people who are conservative in their religious beliefs.

It's no wonder they're are perennial failures.

Bill,

Don't make the mistake of calling someone(Cindy Sheahan) who has lost their son to a phoney baloney war,cooked up by the George W. gang, a tool.

Speaking of Hugo Chavez:
Once we get a Democtic President in place in 08,we can peacefully speak to Chavez,and start getting cheap gas......a winner, even for the Republicans who drive alot.

Nobody likes Republican George W.,and his boss Dick Cheney,... no one....not even a vast majority of the American public.

That's what is killing the Republican party as we speak.

I guess the name calling of individuals and just debating the issues didn't last that long.

"From what I can tell, the FRC hasn’t done little to preempt its opponents attempts at preemption."

No one is blocking FRC from making their claims - this isn't a matter of freedom of speech or fairness in debate at all, if that's what's implied. In fact, there maybe be more fairness (albeit subjective) that other views in the public debate are being expressed.

The FRC has effectively carrying out the agenda set before them, used by Karl Rove and the RNC as a means of improving voter turnout for the party. In the past, there was no need to preempt its opponents, because they really had no opponents in the public arena. Now, Red Letter Christians and others are trying to reframe the debate on their terms, from what I can see.

The entire concept of a "Religious right" is mystifying. Does it imply a "Religious left" or both a non-religious right/left as well? We already know what the religiious left is doing. As the warnings of an impending theocracy here are constantly put forth I ask this-Pornography and debased "entertainment" protected as free speech while religious expression is muzzled under a misguided interpretation of the Constitution-This is theocracy? Religious conservatives maligned as deniers of science,while the anything goes crowd constantly denies science in order to justify not only the right to choose(i.e. kill for convenience)but embryonic stem cell research?(create life to kill it for possible benefit)No theocracy "round here.

Don't worry Bill, when the Democrats take control of the house and senate and we flee Iraq, they will come here, and the Islamo terrorists will kill off all the Christians and than work their way on to finishing off the journalists and professors.

Bill, you've clearly drunk the GOP Kool-Aid, but what the heck, since you've put your cards on the table, let me show you my royal flush:

I don't care whether Cindy Sheahan is a tool of the left or not, because I have four words for you: Robert and Mary Schindler.

The Terri Schiavo debacle has made it impossible for anyone on the Right to judge who's a tool being used for a political movement. Don't tell me that those suffering parents weren't valued more for their utility than for their humanity. Republicans were perfectly willing to abandon some of the core values of their party -- states' rights, and sanctity of marriage -- in order to appease the religious right and in the process magnify those poor parents' suffering. The way their personal torture was exploited for political gain was nauseating. End of story.

But back to the main topic -- I'm glad that religious moderates are speaking out more. I don't care how late to the party they are. Whoever called them the "religious left" doesn't get it: these people share many of the same values and worship the same God as the people they're protesting. These moderates feel that focussing exclusively on hot-button political issues has actually led people away from God's work. They want to move away from extremism to better go about His work. More power to 'em.

Juanito..don't know where you came up with that one!!!Republicans for the working man? Right.

Well I couldn't leave this one alone:
Of course there is a religous left, it just isn't on there agenda to impose their own beliefs on everyone esle. I am a common man with a mortgage, two kids, a job and I coach soccer on Saturdays. The Republican party does not address my values. In fact, they run contradictory to my values. I am opposed to war for oil, opposed to a fence at our border and opposed to taking away a woman's right to choose for herself. The American way is about the rights of the individual, so long as it does not interrupt the rights of another individual, while working together in order to ensure our defense from others who may try to take away these rights. I don't see the president or the religous right as trying to work with me as much as I view them trying to shove it down my throat! And it make me want to puke!

Bill r.,

Be careful,Juanito is an "Independent"............remember????

bill r.,

I'm saying that the Republicans know what cultural buttons to push, the Democrats don't.

In the popular mind The Democrats are all Hollywood and New York glitterati who scoff at "the NASCAR crowd" and "Trailer Trash". That may be generalization that doesn't fit every Dem, but that's the perception. And that perception is largely the Democrats' fault.

In this blog, for example, remember just a few weeks ago all of the self described "Liberals" who routinely ripped into "the NASCAR crowd" and "Trailer Trash"? It finally stopped when Bill, I and a few others embarrassed them into shutting up.

So when there aren't huge policy differences between the 2 parties (and there aren't) people vote the cultural difference. Middle America feels more comfortable with the party that doesn't talk down to them.

Juanito...The nascar bashing crowd was at best one or two posters...and I also made mention of that living in the south as I do. But you can talk till you're blue in the face and I will never ever believe that the republican party is percieved to be for the common man....ever!

It may be late in the game for somebody to be voicing some dissention to the Religious Right, but I'm glad they're doing it anyway. Even if it doesn't make any difference in this election (and it probably won't), it might make a difference down the road.

"Interesting how Frank James repeatedly calls one side the "religious right", but fails to call the other side the "religious left". Sad but typical bias from the "Swamp" chapter of the DNC.

Posted by: Bruce | Sep 20, 2006 4:11:28 PM"

The RR has for years referred to itself as the RR or the CRR, as a vote getter.

What, is the term taking on an unsavory oder? Has, just maybe the term 'conservative' or 'right' been vilified?

Gee, what other word, one that starts with 'L' did that happen.

"The Terri Schiavo debacle has made it impossible for anyone on the Right to judge who's a tool being used for a political movement. Don't tell me that those suffering parents weren't valued more for their utility than for their humanity. Republicans were perfectly willing to abandon some of the core values of their party -- states' rights, and sanctity of marriage -- in order to appease the religious right and in the process magnify those poor parents' suffering. The way their personal torture was exploited for political gain was nauseating. End of story."

Nicely put, Frank L,

Monumental pandering on scale rarely seen in the modern political arena.

I think it all boils down to keeping religion... any religion out of politics and out of influencing any laws. The first amendment specifically states just that and yet it is "Religious Radicals" demanding that their idiology be the basis of laws in the United States. They are attempting to turn our Democracy into a Theocracy. On the issues of abortion... Leave people alone. Let them live their own lives, and let them live with regret or the possibility of never being able to become pregnant again.

On the issue of Gay Marriage... Why not? The founding fathers made no exceptions and neither did the consititution. The first section of the 14th amendment states:

"No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Amendments to ban Gay Marriage are in direct conflict and in violation of the 14th amendment.

So let it be known. We Americans are not going to allow our government to walk all over us. We are not going to let one group of people tell us how to live our lives, how to vote, how to love or whom we can or cannot accept in our society.

Per Juanito;

Middle America feels more comfortable with the party that doesn't talk down to them.

Posted by: Juanito | Sep 21, 2006 6:58:05 AM

You're right, they don't! Because while they smile an put their change in the collection plate, their giveing you the reach around and stealing the big bills out of your pocket!