Who's to blame for Osama the free?

What is more important? Who is to blame, or what are we doing now. Each and every blog i read spends all of it's energy blaming someone. It's the Dem., it's Bush ya ya ya. When will ANYBODY realize that as long as are putting our energy into who's to blame, the problem will remain with us.
Why is Gallup perpetuating this horse manure with all of these worthless polls. It does not matter who is responsible. What's done is done. The Gallup's should be doing polls an what can we do NOW.
My god people, all of this in childish political bashing wastes valuable time that could be used to COMBAT THE PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!! Imagine if all of the time both parties spent whining about the other was put into constructive planing on what to do. We might actually be out of Iraq. When your children act out and blame each other, they are sent to their rooms until they can play nicely together. Anybody else see the correlation here????????

Welcome to the Swamp, RKS, where all we do is assign blame and don't ever try to fix any problems. I hear it functions as a microcosm of Washington, D.C.

Bush has been our president for 6 years now. He has had ample time and resources to find and capture Bin Laden. He has majorities in both the congress, senate, and almost in the supreme court, to support anything and everything he might want to do. Bin Laden is still out there, terrorism is getting worse, thousands are dead.

You decide.

I don't "blame" either Clinton or Bush. But of the two, Clinton had the best chance to get Osama. As one intelligence expert put it, Clinton had 8 to 10 chances to get Osama, but didn't even try. Bush had 1 chance, tried, but the assault missed him.

GEORGE W. BUSH!!!!!!

He was told by Bill Clinton that his number one priority should be keeping track of Osama Bin Laden, right after W. stole his first election.

W. blew this info off,and Condi Rice has never, not one time, explained ANYTHING that they did about Osama Bin Laden prior to 9/11,and they have done nothing in the five years since then,except invade Iraq,who had NOTHING to do with 9/11.

If you will remember,W. spent his first several months in office......VACATIONING!!!!,playing golf.......leading the silverspoon lifestyle that he is accustomed to living......dodging the threat,the same way him,and cheney dodged the Vietnam war.

I agree with RKS, there is probably plenty of blame to go around, but why bother? We need to figure out what happens next. Besides at this point it really doesn't matter if he's caught or killed or not. It's not going to bring back the victims of 9-11. The focus should be on ending terrorism. Often times I feel that our government is more interested in protecting us from terrorism than finding the root cause and work on ending it. It's similar to how people look at violent crime. A murder occurs in a neighborhood, everyone gets new security systems, the police advise on how to avoid being victims of future crimes, and everyone looks for law enforcement to catch and punish the killer. Why is catching and punishing so important to us? Shouldn't the focus be on trying to stop the factors that create the murderers in the first place? Blame accompishes nothing and frankly punishing accomplishes nothing. Let's look ahead and find ways to change our world for the better.

Bill,

Maybe we are just emulating our beloved leaders. Terrorists will bank on our inability to do anything without months of political BS to increase their opportunities. What we do on the Swamp is inconsequential compared to what the children in Washington do..

GEORGE W. BUSH!!!!!!

He was told by Bill Clinton that his number one priority should be keeping track of Osama Bin Laden, right after W. stole his first election.

W. blew this info off,and Condi Rice has never, not one time, explained ANYTHING that they did about Osama Bin Laden prior to 9/11,and they have done nothing in the five years since then,except invade Iraq,who had NOTHING to do with 9/11.

If you will remember,W. spent his first several months in office......VACATIONING!!!!,playing golf.......leading the silverspoon lifestyle that he is accustomed to living......dodging the threat,the same way him,and cheney dodged the Vietnam war.

SO WHAT!!!!!!!! SO WHAT DO WE DO NOW?????????? Everything you wrote does nothing to solve the eproblem NOW. It is far past time to stop worrying about whether Clinton told Bush, or Bush did or didn't do that. I cannot believe that people are so naive (to quote Raving Loon)to think that all of this political bashing is going to help our CURRENT CRISIS'.

Dean G.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm in complete agreement, Dean.

RKS, you must ignore the rantings of John E. He believes he was in the military, that his "son" is in the military, and that he even received a letter from the Pentagon telling him to expect to be required to re-enlist, even though no such activity is taking place.

You are correct, though. We should be working together as Americans to hunt down bin Laden and to fight terrorism. I am all for that, but our Leftist friends mostly are not. They are too muddled in their hatred toward Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Jesus, Chris Wallace, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Brit Hume, Bill O'Reilly, Condi Rice, Sen. George Allen, etc.

Bin Laden once said that American can be defeated because Americans don't have the stomach for a protracted battle, seeing their fighting men and women coming home in body bags, and too divided to fight. He might be a crazy, murderous nut, but he was right in that assessment.

It's the posts like that of John E., Raving Loon, et al that make me fight back. I believe in America first, politics second. Unfortunately, our "friends" on the Left see their agenda first, America as nonexistent.

George Bush...who's trying to deflect the blame but him and his crew. Why are they trying to do that...because they aren't doing anything.

I recall Clinton had meeting on OBL activities on a regular basis to keep track of terrorist movements, and GWB spent his first months in office on vacation. Condi was the national security advisor that was warned by the outgoing Clinton Administration the threat from OBL, and Cheney was busy setting up meetings with Enron to rip the country off with a national energy policy (that is still secret). Do I blame Bush? HELL YES !, but I also have to blame Condi, Cheney, and the rest of his Administration.

While all these postings are interesting and raise valid points, I am more interested in who leaked this report and what where there motives to do so. Politcs? Leaking of secret reports is really treason, but who's asking. That is the whole problem today, neither party gives a damn about the people, they just want there party in control. Politics has made most of them very rich and powerful, that is there agenda!

"who's trying to deflect the blame but him and his crew"

You must not have heard Clinton on Wallace's show. He was doing quite the defensive squirm his own self.

Blame is a fool's activity. Show me someone who casts blame while the car is fender-deep in the snow bank and I'll show you the useless waste of citizenship.

This is like the arrogant and ridiculous questions circa Oct 2001 "Who is responsible for 9/11 - Bush or Clinton?" Uh, how about bin Laden? Why is that not an option in our self-important, navel-gazing pseudo-reality? He's the guy what did it; why do his actions become our responsibility?

Don't third-worlders have any responsibility of their own anymore? If they hate America **Really Really A Whole Lot** are their actions suddenly our fault? Or is it, like the islamists keep saying, that to America and Americans the world revolves around us?

Here's a novel notion: why not "blame" bin Laden's non-capture on one-point-five billion muslims to most of whom he is a folk-hero, and many of whom would gladly hide him if not actually die for him?

Or are we really so self-obsessed that all we can see is us? We're all that exists. So if something goes wrong, we're obviously the ones who did it... blame America first.

How about we blame the terrorists??? Now there's a thought.

RKS....I agree, I would love to see the bickering stop...I would say thats a given for just about everyone here..and if we could snap our fingers and change it we would. Outside of writing your congressman which I have...other than complaining we are children what do you suggest?

For those who want to know why it’s important to establish who is at fault “it’s an election year” or did you forget that the Republicans think they are the team that will protect us? That’s a laugh, when it’s now obvious to everyone who dropped the ball on 9/11. Rove is banking on scaring everyone with some new terrorist threat. Look for something to happen next month???

John D Its me again. Both are to blame. Clinton admitted his mistakes. I want our President to do the same. Both had their chances bot missed. One Clinton tried . So did Bush . But here it John tora bora no blocking force to stop him from crossing the border.100st and 1st Marines were on the ground. John its both. But after the NIC report do you think America is safer I don't!

Bill Clinton had 8 years to catch Osama after the FIRST WTC attack.

No wait, Bill Clinton had OBL handed to him on a silver platter by Sudan... and Bill Clinton said "no thanks".

Funny how the lefty moon bat tin foil crowd thinks that Clinton told Bush that the #1 priority was OBL... when indeed no one passed this information along. Ya see, I took Clinton's advice and read Clarke's book. No info was passed.

The person most to blame, Bill Clinton. Why? We were attacked constantly by OBL, and he didn't do a damn thing to stop it.

But he sure did fuel terrorism by such weak-arsed actions like "withdraw from Somalia", "not strike back after Khobar Towers", "do nothing with regards to the USS Cole", "no thanks to Sudan", and most damning of all, "he did NOTHING when OBL declared war on the US in 1996".

No wonder OBL says that all you have to do is prick america and we'll run. That's exactly what we did when a Democrat, that's right a Democrat, was in the White House.

JohnD --

I'd ask you if you were kidding, but I've read enough of your platitudes to sense that you believe what you're writing.

RKS -- at one level you're right -- its all just windowdressing, and doesn't solve much. But the reality is that not much is happening. As much as JohnD wants to place this all in the laps of "Leftists", all of the power of the federal government lies in the laps of the Right, and look what is happening? By reports recently declassified from our intelligence agencies our country is less safe because of the Iraq War. We have created a larger problem. A large number of this nation's top military leaders are saying how bad an idea, and how dangerous passing the "Torture Bill" is. There are no checks and balances in our federal government because this current congress is unwilling to hold hearings directly reviewing and arguing about this current war -- hearings that we had even during World War II while the war was going on!

The bottom-line is that this is not going to change without at some sort of shift in Congress. All we will be able to do is argue about things that are not important, instead of discussing the real issues that face this country, because the Republican Party has no interest in talking about them. And all you have to do is look at what Congress is doing now to know that it is true.

Just Steve

Dale, that same NIE report also said that by defeating the terrorists will Iraq will deflate them.

Do I feel safer today? Yes, the Bush administration has been on the offensive against the terrorists. I would rather have that than be on the defensive. Did those in power screw up at Tora Bora? Probably. Has Bush accepted blame for when things haven't gone well? Yes, he has.

Dale, I truly believe you are a patriot who cares about the country and especially those that served the country. You are a hero. But i also think your dismay with the bureaucratic nonsense has skewed your thought process some. But I will say that your comments about veteran's affairs has had me investigating and inquiring. I probably know of at least a dozen vets, if not way more. They agree and disagree with some of your contentions. But i do believe your heart is in the right place.

Darryn Foley,
What did Bush do to respond to the Cole attack? Were you on the streets protesting for war against al-Qaeda or were you more interested in Monicagate and the stock market?

Now JustSteve..that I can agree on totally. I know we would love to see everybody all of a sudden get along, but the reality of it, is not the same. We can howl at the moon to change things but checks and balances are the one thing that would help.

This one is easy. We should all blame Paulo and the mindless sheep that helped put these incompetent fools in office. It all happened on Dumbya's watch with plenty of warning from the previous admin. More revisionist republicants that only like facts when they agree with them.

Rory, it's called threat level orange. And by the way things are looking for Rove and friends, it might come sooner than October.

Darryn, the World Trade Center bombing in 1993 was carried out by Ramzai Yousef (as the one who actually planted the bombs), not Osama Bin Laden. Yousef, along with the other 6 conspirators, was caught (i.e., all of them were caught) and are currently in prison.

Bin Laden was expelled by the Sudanese government in 1996. At that time, he had done nothing to American property. All his attacks were against other countries, so we had nothing to charge him with and wouldn't have been able to hold him. Clinton tried to get the Saudis to extradite him to Saudi Arabia, but the Saudis refused.

The first attack to American property, which would have allowed us to actually charge and hold Bin Laden, was the bombings of our embassies in East Africa in 1998. That was followed by the Cole bombing in 2000. Beginning in 1998, Clinton did make attempts to get Bin Laden, although they were arguably ineffective and certainly fruitless.

We were attacked repeatedly but NOT "constantly" by Bin Laden. Clinton had from 1998 to catch Bin Laden, not from 1993.

I agree that Clinton bears equitable responsibility for the attacks perpetrated by Bin Laden but NOT that it's all on his doorstep.

I'm with Brian.

But I think Little Johnny D is also to blame.He sits in that BIG office sucking down slurpees,he should have been watching for OBL.

Little Johnny,no slurpees for you.One year.

TO:
RKS, Bill, Dean G. and others who are saying, what effing difference does it make NOW?

You've hit the nail on the head.

And I will add my usual statement: Whether OBL is killed, faces a court of law or dies in his bed, makes not the slightest difference -- the problem remains.

The question we should be asking is: Why Bin Laden? Or why al Queda? Why Islamism? Why are we facing this threat?

The answer is complex, and can't really be dealt with adequately in a blog. It is partly our (the West's) own doing. Islamists like to trace their grievances back to the Crusades. I won't go that far, but I will say that the roots are in large part in the victors carving up the remains of the Ottoman Empire after World War I.

The British were concerned mostly with maintaining a corridor to India at the time, but oil came into the picture very shortly thereafter. (right, C.Morris) Thus followed the Western propping up of corrupt potentates.

The very beginnings of Israel also date to this period (although Israel wasn't officially born til 1948) and so Islamists (inaccurately) tend to see Israel and Western Imperialism as being all-of-a-piece.

That EXTREMELY cursory analysis said, I want to emphasize that I am NOT saying that 9-11 and the constant threat we now live under are comeuppance. It's more like "chickens coming home to roost". We don't (i don't) deserve this; random mass murder is unjustifiable.

However, we would do well to understand the history of the predicament we're in.

As for what to do? I don't know. What bothers me is that those who are running this country -- as well as those who aspire to -- don't seem to know either.

God help us.

Thanks John I love my Country. Some vets still do not know how bad it is yet unless they go to VA . Some make to much money or have other coverage. Look both good and bad news is posted on
http://www.vawatchdog.org
I have trust in Larry Scott he prints only the truth. Not one side or the other just fact. John some of the news is not bad. Its about just plain people stepping up to help vets. And vet helping vet. I don't hate Bush I voted for him . But right now he has lost my trust and my family in Iraq. As To Hastert He need to go along with any Democrat who does the same.We the People need to trust our Government. If asked I would serve my Country again. Its not Americans fault what our Government does we have the power our votes

RKS,

Cheer up. Yes, there are some tedious knuckleheads here, but there are also a few intelligent, good hearted people. It is possible to get an adult conversation going in the Swamp.

John E...are you in Iraq now?If you are,remember who's side your on.
Paulo

Jaunito,
You are correct the problem is so complex that it would be impossible to spell it all out here. I have to say, though, you did a pretty good job. It's rare that I hear anyone talking about the carving up of the Ottoman Empire and beginnings of Israel. These are points of history we all need to know and I urge anyone to do some reading and research. I don't hear our leaders talking about these points. In fact I have never heard our leaders (and I mean leaders of both parties here) address these issues as key ingredients to come up with a solution. It's also important to not that these are far from the only issues here, but definitely a part of the overall problem.

One thing I hear on a consistant basis from people who don't understand the problem is that we are at war with Islam and that if we win our problems will be solved. This opinion is completely ignorant an unproductive. The vast majority of Muslims are good people and are every bit as tired of the violence as the rest of us. It's also a fact that Islam is the fastest growing religion on the planet. If we are to find solutions to our global problems we need to find ways to work together.

So here's my challenge to my fellow posters and readers on this board. Let's all try to educate ourselves better on these issues. With a little knowledge we will have better questions for our leaders. A that point we can write to our Senators, our Congressional Reps, candidates for office, and our President with informed opinions and serious questions. If we want answers we have to know the questions first.

Juanito & Dean,

Given the percentage of Americans who actually read a paper and the quality of media reporting these days, I'd say your chances for a better informed America are pretty low. In that general vein, I'd invite everyone to pick up a copy of Sagan's "The Demon Haunted World". Then go listen to some politician's B.S. and pick it apart for what it is.

Why didn't the Republican Congress declare war on Al-Qaeda in the 90s after we were attacked? All they and their followers do now is point their fingers at how Clinton responded.

"God help us.

Posted by: Juanito | Sep 27, 2006 7:58:31 PM"

Juanito,

I second that.

But,,, He is a cold, distant, brooding God, who's love is terrible.

But,,, He is a cold, distant, brooding God, who's love is terrible.

Posted by: C.Morris | Sep 28, 2006 2:42:56 PM

Yeah. What's he done for us lately?

I wonder if bin Laden is on the CIA payroll (still)?? We all know Saddam was.

Juanito,

Knowing a little about you, from prior posts, I think you are being sardonic, or maybe 'paraphrasing' me?

I don't think you mean that.

I don't expect anything from Him.
When my stock goes up, I don't think He wants me to be rich. You don't either I bet.

I don't expect anything from Him.
When my stock goes up, I don't think He wants me to be rich. You don't either I bet.

Posted by: C.Morris | Sep 28, 2006 5:03:48 PM

Right.

I'm an Humanist agnostic. I don't believe in a "God" that has a personality, a gender, who loves us or hates us -- or is even indifferent to us, for that matter. It (not "he" or "she" to be accurate) simply does not directly interact with us in any way.

"God" is the source of existance but not the solver of our problems. That's our responsibility. (That's the Humanism part.)

Everyone who is advocating the "what difference does it make now" stance, and puffing up their feathers acting like they are the only ones intelligent enough to get something done in terms of "where do we go from here" and cooperation, you actually are all missing the point.

I will illustrate this point that you are all missing by using a quote from rwilymz:

"Blame is a fool's activity. Show me someone who casts blame while the car is fender-deep in the snow bank and I'll show you the useless waste of citizenship."

Ok. So, it seems like "the car" is our country, and the passenger(s) casting blame instead of immediately trying to remove the car from the snowbank (Iraq/War on Terror) are the "fools."

Now let's take this analogy a bit further, for the sake of consistency and to prove my point. How did the car get into the snowbank in the first place? It was driven by someone that should evidently not have been driving. Once you decide to remove the car from the snowbank and actually do that, it would also be prudent to install a NEW DRIVER behind the wheel, would it not?

What is blame, then? Blame is the act of assigning guilt to a specific party for something they did explicitly or allowed to happen. Blame has a utility, a purpose. In the case of this example with the car in the snowbank, it is needed because without assigning the guilt to the driver for allowing the car to get stuck in a snowbank, you could remove the car immediately only to find yourself stuck in another snowbank down the road or worse, off a cliff, if you don't replace the driver. Anyone see what I'm getting at...?

What do you people think you're going to "get done" cooperatively when you can't even address the real, root cause of our car being in the snowbank in the first place? You'd advocate just getting out, pushing the car out of the snow, and continuing on your way, and in doing so you're ignoring the imminent peril to you and any other passengers in the car posed by the inept, snowbank crashing driver.

So who is driving this country? Who has been driving this country since 2000? Who told us to get in the car with him to go kill some terrorists that attacked our country, but really took us behind a 7-11 and ditched us so he could go to a 5 star hotel owned by his best friend the Arab oil sheikh and smoke cigars rolled with our money? Who cut taxes for the wealthiest 2 percent, more than once, during a war? Who blew the biggest surplus in history and turned it into a record deficit? And who keeps citing the most impactful event in American history as the reason why we should let him off the hook and allow him to continue lying to us?

So people, a good citizen NEEDS to blame, because blame has a utility, and without blaming the responsible party, which is obviously and inarguably Bush and Co., we're not really doing anything, because as long as he's still driving, the car will always be about to hit a snowbank, or a wall, or go off a cliff or whatever.

So stop gladhanding eachother and acting like the right and the left are coming together and cooperating in this forum when you're all actually just slapping eachother's backs in the spirit of false fellowship and congratulating yourselves for finally coming together, as you perceive it, when the REAL problem (the car stuck in the snow) not only needs to be extracted from the snow, but it NEEDS A NEW DRIVER, NOW. You should be concentrating all of your efforts on replacing the party(ies) responsible by weighing facts and assigning BLAME with the goal of a new driver in mind. Or you could keep the driver if you're content with continually being stuck in the snow, or if you like the prospect of being driven off a cliff.

etheryang,

You make some good points and your analogy is sound. What you fail to see is Americans are deeply divided when it comes to who to blame. About half blame Clinton and the other half (which is where my opinion lies) blame Bush. How to you propose that this will ever be decided?

In the news right now is the sentencing of the club owners who's club burned and killed a great many people. These owners entered a plea bargain and are being sentenced today. Many of the families are outside the courthouse protesting the plea bargain believing that the sentence is too light for the crime committed. These poor people will never be satisified because the powers that be will never agree with them. Their energies would be better spent forming a watchdog organization that would inspect other clubs for the same type of problems that led to these tragic deaths. The blame game they are playing now is hurting no one but themselves. Wasting energy blaming Bush (or Clinton for those who take that side) is just about as useless.

Listen, there is no one more unhappy about the direction of this country than I am. If I thought that there was a possibility of somehow getting this President out of office, or even prosecuting him for his mistakes, I would be in full agreement with you. The facts are though that we aren't going to get a new "driver" anytime soon. Hopefully we will get a new "driver" in the House after the midterm elections, but even that is doubtful. what needs to be done now is to educate both those who support these leaders and those that don't, and get them to put pressure on their Senators, Congressional Reps, etc. I realize these are people who don't often listen but at least it's a start. Blame that leads nowhere gets us nowhere.

Listen, at heart I agree with you. If I thought blaming the President would get us somewhere I'd be behind you 100%, but I'm sorry I just don't see how that helps.

I agree with RKS and Dean G., all we do is play the blame game, and everyone blames someone else. If we put as much effort in trying to find a solution, the world wold not have Osama at large. The truth is everyone is to blame. All we do is talk about Osama, so, he sees all the attention he gets, and tries to get more, like a small child. If we ignore him in the media, and just let the troops look for him, it could make it easier. The media alerts Osama to everything we try to do. Think about it then, grow up!!! you young people are only good for complaining, in my day, I got slapped for complaining. Your parents should do the same.

You know, you young people should spend more time fixing your life than trying to blame people for problems that you do nothing to try and fix. First, our obsession with the media needs to be relaxed. osama knows what we are doing because it is ALL OVER OUR NEWS!!!!!You think he can't see our news there?! Are you people that nieve? Second, get off your lazy rear ends and do something, stop complaining!!! Do you know WHY the presidents 'skrew up'? Because people like you spend more time blogging than giving feed back about how things are going? Oh, are half of you on this blog even old enough to vote?

I blame the guy who didn't give our armed forces enough help to seal the Pakistan border when we had bin Laden on the run at Tora Bora. Oh, and I blame the American people for caring about the lip-shade Monica was wearing when she was making President Clinton smile. And I blame President Clinton for worrying more about what Tom DeLay thought about his wagging the dog than protecting the American public.

Juanito,

We agree.

C.Morris,

You've got your head screwed on right.

Roger,

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