Kerry gives fellow Dems Halloween trick

Snow's right. It "sort of fits a pattern."

Now the Republicans will work to twist the words and the meaning to fit a pattern that they see fit.

But let's get to what Kerry really means.

The options for "academic losers" - as you put it - really are limited. And Iraq is one of those choices and will continue to be.

You are not going to see a lot of "A" students or children of the well-off strapping-up for Iraq. What you are going to continue to see are people with little to lose and a "hero's welcome" to gain.

That's Kerry's message and it will continue to ring true for the next few years we are in Iraq.

It's an incredibly stupid comment unless he was refering to Geo Bush.

And people call BUSH DUMB?!

Everybody misspeaks at some time, but what were the Democrats thinking when they nominated this guy? A gift that keeps on giving to Rove is right......

Sorry to inform the perpetual dead-brained libs, but many in the Armed Forces have master's degrees, have bachelor's degrees and are educated. It is so typical for the stuck-up, snobby liberals to think that only the dumb are in the military.

He's completely right.

Gee, I'm confused, which John Kerry is this anyway? There are two of them by that name that I know of.

Is this John Kerry the sensitive, brave young man I saw 30 or so years ago; the one who sat before congress and made the talk show circuit telling all who would listen that GIs (in their anger and frustration) were committing war crimes; that they were racked with guilt and shame because their government had forced them to kill and die for a lie?...

Or is this steely nerved Uberwarrior John Kerry that I saw in 2004 regaling us with his war stories; who, like an action movie hero, beached his boat and ran into the jungle with his M16 on full-auto (no doubt laughing in the face of death) while he hosed down the souless Cong?...

The first John Kerry I happened to admire back in the 70s; the second one is just a self serving gasbag. But they're obviously not the same person, so which one are we talking about now?

This guy has to learn to keep his mouth shut. The only reason he's not President today is that he actually looked dumber than the President (a very difficult thing to do) in 2004. One week prior to an election all the public is listening to is sound bites and he gave them a doozy. Lock this guy in an office for a week so that the Democrats can win an election! The sad footnote is that he isn't wrong in what he said.

The trick seems to be on you, Frank. Kerry said what everyone knows: for the most part, it IS those with no other options who get sent to fight the wars started by men who never had to fight in one themselves. And if you think that Bush is going to get any voters riled up enough to vote Republican this time around by bashing Kerry, well, you may be in for a surprise.

Swamp indeed. Is everyone in the Tribune's D.C. Bureau a Republican propagandist?

Thanks John Kerry!! You've torpedoed the Democratic Party to help out your Skull & Bones fraternity brother.

About a year ago, the Wall Street Journal did a thorough analysis of those serving in the armed forces.

They found that in contrast to the commonly held belief that the military is staffed by poor, uneducated minorities, the US military was disproportionally caucasian, and elistments since 9/11 were richer and more educted than ever before in American history.

So, it's just not true that the military is composed entirely of dead-enders. I'm sure there are some, but that's true of any organization that large.

Thank you, John Kerry, for showing what an idiot you really are. As a former Presidential candidate you didn't have any solid platform. As a political stumper, you are showing lack of tact and intelligence. And thank you for insuring Republican victories.

Catherine,

Kerry is talking about W.

That is so funny,and so true.

It makes me think of little Johnny/JD aka "Tammy",and Paulo,and the rest of the robot,wingnut followers.

Idiot. I take extreme offense to gross stereotyping of our proud soldiers. My brother went into the military right after high school because he wanted to do nothing other than join the Marines. This was after Vietnam, but before Grenada, before Iraq I & II. He is proud to serve his country. He took a leave and obtained his bachelor and master's degrees. He is a proud officer with 20 years service. Kerry, I am afraid that you have been so insulated from the real world that you have forgotten what you went through in the military and that there are soldiers who are proud and honored to be able to defend their country. Even if the administration is led by two duty leaving, multiple draft deferred chicken hawks with no real military experience that leaves them with a low regard for human life.

You are not going to see a lot of "A" students or children of the well-off strapping-up for Iraq. What you are going to continue to see are people with little to lose and a "hero's welcome" to gain.

That's Kerry's message and it will continue to ring true for the next few years we are in Iraq.

Posted by: Bud McFarlin | Oct 31,
+++

Bud you are a sad, angry, pseudo-intellectual that has NO clue about who goes to Iraq.

You are the worst kind of snob, one that has no reason to be snotty since you are clueless.

Kerry simply made that classic mistake of stating something that most of us think but should never speak aloud in public.

Of course the options to those with less education are more limited. The military has been a last resort to many of these people since standing armies were adopted. Even in times of national crisis not everyone serves. Case in point: the practice of hiring a surrogate to serve for you in the American Civil War.

Let's face it, the very existence of our country is not at stake in Iraq and people with options don't want to sacrifice their lives for nothing.

Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Limbaugh, Tony "Snowjob" and all those other slick talking, non-combat experienced, tough guy, bible banging tough guys would like to make the unfortunate comments by "Scary Kerry" the issue voters vote on. They would love nothing more than to distract the country from the following:
1. Close to 3,000 of America's Finest & Bravest dying in a war where no WMD's were found and the Republican led 9-11 commission reported that there were no ties to Saddam and Al Qaeda.
2. The Deficit. The largest in the history of this country. No - this is not your father's GOP where "Balanced Budgets" and not "mortgaging our childrens' futures" were key points; this Administration regularly and smuggly continues to "Stick it to the Middle Class". Unfortunately, a number of blind Middle Class Citizens are blindly accepting it and stating - "YEs Sir, may I have another?"
3. Stem Cell Research - While other countries are advancing this scientific research this country is mired in "Theocratic Practices" that are governing our legislation. China and Europe in particular are making headways while this Great Country has to take a back seat to them.
4. Outsourcing of Jobs - Look around in just our own state. How many companies can you think of that pulled out and started up overseas?
Let's sound a Loud & Clear Message to the Whack Job, Right Wing Nut-Cases and vote them out of office come November 7th.

John Kerry has as much brains as a rock, rolling downhill into a lava pit. Once melted, he looks like all the rest of the lava, just another blimp on the radar of history.

GWB is not the most brightest lightbulb on the lot, but Kerry just proved to the world, why we do not need him anywhere near politics in the US.

Yes,Kerry Haters,you should be so proud that you elected Dunce Brain to a second term.

Because of your wisdom,more dead soldiers,more debt,more jobs to China,more loss of health care,no action on that B.S.issue,Global Warming,pat yourselves on the back,you Morons!!!

Elanor, the Trib Swamp writers are on the Democratic party payroll. Obviously you have missed all the love notes to Barack, the criticisms of George Allen and Macacca but nothing about Joe Biden and his racist slams or the DNC ad that angered latinos or Steny Hoyer calling Michael Steele a slave to the GOP, or Frank James using Harry Reid press releases to explain away his scandals.

Also, Swamp, why is it that naughty words used by liberals against conservatives get printed on here, but not the other way around? If a liberal can call a conservative a s-head, why can't a conservative say what liberals do is typical bulls---?

Give John Kerry another purple heart, he just shot himself in the foot!

People, keep in mind that what Kerry originally said is being quoted out of context by a columnist with an obvious bias. Do you seriously think a former soldier would put down his fellow soldiers like that? This is nothing but another Republican dirty trick, and some of you are falling for it. OK, he may have mis-spoken, but he may also be a victim, once again, of editing for nefarious purposes.

I LOVE the Kerry smackdown of his critics. If this John Kerry had shown up in the 2004 election, the country would be in a lot better shape right now.

Hopefully we can get over this distraction and talk about the issues. The Governator was able to overcome calling Latinos hot blooded because they have black blood mix w/ Hispanic blood. I hope the voter's realize this is not about what idiot John Kerry says, but what the party in power has done.

Elanor's message, died on the way to the blog as all the Dem's prayed, no one was saved, All the foolsih donkeys, how can they be so dumb? All theh foolish donkeys, relying on such bums!

Talk about the ultimate life line for republicans, John Kerry really came through. Just goes to show how difficult it is to win even a war of words. Time for some extended wind surfing John.

It is amazing that Democrats will even try to defend something as stupid as Kerry's comments. It is a typical elitists mentality that thinks he can get away with those comments. Even Dean is not that stupid!

I don't see what the big deal is. Given that Rove, Bush, and Cheney all served in the military, they have every right to criticize Kerry. Oh, I forgot. They didn't serve in the military. They have zero credibility.

A terribly stupid comment like that changes nothing.
Bushs misgiuded war of choice, and Rumsfelds ineptitude in executing the flawed mission remain the same.

My brother in law left Friday for Iraq. Let me rephrase that and say...my brother in law - who is fluent in 4 languages, has multiple degrees and knows more than my EXTREMELY intelligent husband (who is a veteran) and my EXTREMELY intelligent self put together - left Friday for Iraq. Anyone who can say that the military is for the "dumb" or "un-educated" has NO idea what today's military is actually like. Kerry's comment turned my stomach but some of the other comments I've seen here make it worse! I didn't like Kerry before but now I find him repugnant and for him to try and defend his comment instead of apologizing is appalling!

Once again, moron dems on the wrong side of history. The war is over, it was won and now the hand over against the same terrorist we said we would fight away from American soil. Bush was right then, and he is right now. Krazy Kerry and his buds will never change any of this. Good luck now you idiot liberal hacks!

Not only is this Kerry's view of our brave soldiers,it's the view of the dem party and the military in general.Every dem president slashes the military to the bone....why?Because they hate the military and they think by talking and appeasing the people of the world that want to kill us and our ally's will bring the world into a state of utopia......DOESN'T WORK!!!!
Oh,John E.-- Loon--Dale Peters--C Morris--and all the other cowards--another soldier gave his life yesterday,defending our great country...don't forget to add that to your sickening count!
Paulo

Well, I see this columnist (and what an appropriate title for your online schtick) and others are still reacting like Pavlov's dogs to Republican press releases, their old cherry pick-spin-n-send routine.

Livable wage jobs in this country for young people with high school deplomas have declined critically over the last 30-odd years, sped along by consolidation, downsizing, corporate community abandonment and now outsourcing.

Under Bush the amount of money in grants and loans available to help students go on to college has been drastically cut, increasing the competition -- in grades, extra curriculars, etc -- for the dollars that are left.

So kids who make the very highest grades and fill their high school resumes with extra curricular activities are likeliest to get those aid-supported college admission slots. And for the students who don't get the nod, what's left? Well, there's the military option, with possibilities for college tuition in exchange for service deployment -- once, twice, three times and more -- in places like Afghanistan and Iraq.

When the Republican spin machine sold Kerry's "I voted for it before I voted against" remark, they did the same thing. He was explaining to an audience -- actually helping them to become better informed on how things work (what a concept!)-- how war funding proposals are put forth in various forms in legislation, and that he supported the legislative option that required the appropriation to be paid for in part by repealing Bush tax cuts to some of the wealthiest Americans. That's the legislation he voted for. The legislation he voted against borrowed more money for the war instead of using taxes, in part, to pay for it.

In that instance Kerry's was the fiscally responsible vote: responsible to the future tax payers who are going to have to pay for that debt; responsible to the soldiers fighting the war by asking the folks they're fighting for to make sacrifices to that effort.

But that time as this time the right-wing Wurlitzer bet it could play on voters' knee-jerk assumptions. John Kerry didn't call soldiers in Iraq "dead enders" or in any way indicate there aren't intelligent folks in the military, or highly educated ones, either.

He said opportunities for young people in this country are increasingly constricted under this administration's policies.

I agree. And I'd add that I believe this constriction is being legislated deliberately.

I got a kick out of everyone responding to this isue using it to push their political agenda. Let's take all of the politics out of it and look at what he said.He is insulting our troops, rich, poor, educated, and not so educated. Atta boy, Kerry, open moputh, insert foot. I don't blame the Republicans for taking advantage of his comments, how could you not?

When are people going to get over themselves? Does everything have to be politically correct? I don't think that the children of millionares and billionares are routinely enlisting to fight in Iraq. Everyone I have ever know that has gone into the military did so to gain an education because of the high costs. In a business that deals with teenagers, I think I can say with some certainty that kids aren't joining out of any sense of patriotism. I AM NOT saying that is the case 100% of the time, but most of the time. I'm glad he spoke the truth. Republicans always try to turn into an insult against the troops-get a new game, some of us have figured out the trick.

Kerry's only problem is that he SAYS what Liberals really believe about Americans, but won't usually say...
They are the elitest, better-than-you, smarter-than-you, arrgoant, condescending, "gods" by who's graces we all exist...
If we don't vote Liberal, it's because we're stupid, or brainwashed (or braindead), redneck trailer park hicks who just can't understand their enlightened message...
And if you're in the service, it's only because you're uneducated enough to fall for George "Atilla-the-Hun" Bush's lies as told by Tony "Stuffed Suit" Snow, or Rush "doughy" Limbaugh's rants... and not smart enough to listen to the omniscient Kommorade Kerry, Emperor Pelosi, or Fuhrer Reid.
Note how Kerry's outrage at being called to account for his own words led him to a barrage of name-calling and personal attacks - Just what these Arrogant SOB's accuse everyone else of! How DARE we question him? How DARE we question ANY Liberal... We should just accept their genius and bow at their alter... or suffer the mean-spirited consequences!

Quick Question to all of you neo-con right wing nut jobs. How many people have died from Kerry's thoughtless comments from LA? Give Up? Here is a hint - Several thousand less than what this Genius of a Cowboy President has killed off since his stint as "President Lone Ranger" .

I am somewhat confused here. Kerry makes an inflammatory remark about what seems to be his true feelings and somehow this turns back to Bush bashing? How is it possible that anyone in the general public can turn this very obvious slam of the members of the military into some supposed comment about Bush? Look folks, it is very clear what Kerry has said here. He didn't reference Bush in this comment at all. You can put words in his mouth all day long, but it all comes back to the same thing....Kerry very obviously holds a great deal of disrespect for the citizens of this country who serve in our Military.

I cannot say how thankful I am that he has committed this obscenity. It shows where he and his like minded fellows really stand. The lies he speaks over and over can be brushed over with coats of BS, but this latest comment is in your face.

Wake up people.

Barbara is correct. There is no context to place this quote in because we don't know what he was talking about before or after he said this. He could be saying "you", meaning the Bush Administration, get stuck in Iraq. Bottomline this is a distraction at the worst time. Hopefully common sense will prevail and voters will remember that the current Iraq policy is a failure and at best we are merely "drifting sideways".

Look, surely the "not smart" one Kerry was inartfully desribing was Bush, not the troops. However, he is getting what he deserves for trying to drag out that hackneyed "Bush is an idiot" refrain that the left wing blogs and Air America churn out.

By the way, every death in war is to be regretted, but does Kerry or any other Democrat realize that in the month-long battle for Iwo Jima featured in FLAG OF OUR FATHERS that nearly three times as many American troops died fighting over 8 square miles than have died in all of Iraq since 2003? Let's keep this in perspective, people.

"doughy Rush Limbaugh"

Ha! It's funny because it's true!

I had a bachelor of science degree when I enlisted in the Marine Corps in 1990. True, most of the other enlisted men I served with had gotten no further than a high school diploma, but all were intelligent, motivated individuals who were proud to serve their country. The military was most certainly not the one option available to them. Kerry's thoughtless comment smacks of the sort of elitism for which he is so justly famous.

[i]"Now the Republicans will work to twist the words and the meaning to fit a pattern that they see fit."[/i] - Bud (first poster)

What's to twist? The only twisting will be what the Democrats say Kerry harmlessly [i]really[/i] meant and the Republicans failed to hear accurately.

Let's hear one now, in fact. Tell us, Bud. What exactly DID Kerry mean other that what we heard?

How dare any of you say that only those wth no other options serve. I enlisted, turning down a scholarship, putting off my education, for the privelidge of serving. My grandparents served, and my cousin just enlisted. People from all academic backgrounds serve, on a voluntary basis> Only a true coward would make a remark like that. YOU BELIEVE ONLY DUMB OR RECKLESS PEOPLE WOULD EVER VOLUNTEER! You dishonor the entire heritage of our nation. In Ancient Rome, they used the military as a welfare state; if you didn't have a job, you were drafted. We rely on volunteerism. You COWARDS!! You don't deserve the freedom you live under; directly because men and women volunteer. COWARDS!!! Kerry is a political hack who got beat in 2004; unfortunately, now the GOP won't get a second shot at the liar. In our nation, however, the stupid and ignorant are given opportunity, so keep on talking you foolish cowards!!!!

Kerry has insulted not only every man and woman serving in Iraq, but every man and woman who ever voluntarily donned the uniform of the United States armed forces. Whatever his intention may have been, his actual words will echo in the hearts and minds of those who were insulted by his snobbish elitist views toward the military which he has been exhibiting for the last 30 years and more.

Stupid people in the military? Puh-leeze.

Has anyone seen what SAT scores are required to get into any of the military academies?

Oh, and is being smart good enough? No! You have participate in sports, community, clubs, etc.

Again, another politician (another Democrat) out of touch with reality!

Our BEST and BRIGHTEST serve in the armed forces!

I guess it would have been too insulting to suggest that
they might end up on welfare or homeless.

Yeah, Kerry looks down on soldiers, just like Gore invented the internet. It's just fortunate for Bush that he always speaks so eloquently and precisely.

Kerry's comment, while definitely poorly worded, was definitely directed against Bush, not our men and women in uniform. Read Kerry's rebuttal: "If anyone thinks a veteran would criticize the more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq and not the president who got us stuck there, they're crazy." The original comment was about making use of the education you get. Of all people who have had the most education, but yet seem to have made the least of it, George W. Bush heads that list.

"So now Kerry has, a week before the election, put every Democratic candidate, especially veterans, on the defensive. They must now respond to his gaffe instead of focusing on what had been their plan, a ceaseless offensive against President Bush’s conduct of the Iraq War."

Well, no, if the Democrats are smart (for once), they will take a page from the Republican play book and simply ignore efforts to divert attention to this non-issue and stick to the point.

With the way the Dems have tried to make Bush and the right into monsters every step of the way, it is only fitting that Kerry delivers this gift a week before the election. The libs attempted to dump an October surprise on the right with Foley and have found that it just didn't stick like they thought it would. At this point, it doesn't matter what Kerry meant to say. He should have had more sense, than to say it at all. I hope the Republican party gets many many miles out of it. You know the libs would if the shoe were on the other foot.

well, well, well, . . . . J. F. Kerry turns out to be perhaps the one honest lib after all . . .

Bush and is Republican "mega ditto heads" are so desperate to deflect criticism on their disastrous policies ( record deficits, sending men and women all the way up to 59 years old to Iraq to get killed, Katrina,) they will do any thing to get the heat from them. That means you too Rush.

It actually sounds like he's calling Bush dumb, not the troops.

Remember in 2000, when months prior to Election Day Rove decided not to have Bush speak off script to the press and no longer giver press conferences? It was to prevent him from saying something stupid. The DNC should've told John Kerry to shut up a long time ago. This is not a distraction that we can afford. We need to discuss issues that matter and how the party in power has failed Americans.

I've been waivering about my vote for months -- without a full retraction and apology from Kerry and UNIVERSAL condemnation from the DNC of that statement without spin and without equivocation, I will vote repub in 7 days on the basis of that one statement alone (in fact I'll pull the freaking lever over that one -- something I have never felt justifiable until now) -- it's not just appalling -- it's sickening !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

though I never believed ANY of that anti-Kerry swift boat propanganda, my instincts always told me there was something phony and arrogant about Kerry

unless he was blatantly misquoted, my instincts were absolutely right (and no, I didn't vote for Bush)

by the way, the comment is also racist

tom little t the MD (and veteran)

I served 20 years in the Air Force. I was an Arabic and Farsi linguist. I'm now an engineer working for a defense contractor. All that and I have a bachelor's degree.

Thanks to senator Kerry for letting me know how stupid I am.

Kerry's comments were stupid, even if he was misquoted. What's worse is the response by some of the people here saying what he said is true.

Unpatriotic, uninformed, scumbags.

How sad that you have politicians trying to drive a wedge between the American people.

If we really want the facts. Our military is made up of extremely patriotic Americans. These are not dumb individuals as some would portray, but people who are interested in defending us from our enemies. Many were in college before joining the forces and many will go to college on the GI bill after.

If it is now as he alleges that he was referring to our Commader in Chief. He is once again sorely mistaken. GW Bush had better grades in college than JF Kerry. Does Kerry feel that he was "stuck" in Vietnam because of his bad grades?

Until these politicians will step up above the fray, they should be ignored by all.

Hmmmm Jethro......

Please let's discuss. Please. Other than bashing the one person that has done something about terrorism, Dems have nothing to discuss. They have no plan, other than to criticize.

Discussion is fully welcome.

"Bush and is Republican "mega ditto heads" are so desperate to deflect criticism on their disastrous policies ( record deficits, sending men and women all the way up to 59 years old to Iraq to get killed, Katrina,) they will do any thing to get the heat from them. That means you too Rush."

Soooo.... who are you more angry at? The right having a point today or Kerry for giving it to them?

So...are we going to see the full video anytime soon? Or read the full transcript?

Any chance at all that hacks like James, Snow, and Limbaugh will actually put a remark in proper context?

Y'think?

Me neither.

Glad to see the tribune is in full GOP fearmongering, lets make up lies and distort the truth mode. The fact is republicans have nothing to offer this country, they have had complete control the last several years and what do they have to say for that time, absolutely nothing.
They have run this country into the ground and now go about saying the country is being threatened by democratic control of congress. What a bunch of losers, much like this sorry rag of a paper.

I'm so glad we can make fun of fat people now! How awesome. I guess we won't let a little thing like Rush Limbaugh losing all the weight ten years ago and keeping it off get in the way of a nice, sophmoric joke, right? Since when did facts matter to John Kerry, a self-proclaimed "war criminal" from Vietnaaaaaaam who was sent to Cambodia by Dick Nixon somehow before Nixon was even president or the US was even in Vietnaaaaaaaaaaam! Rush and Tony Snow better be careful, though, or Kerry will shoot them in the back faster than a 14-year-old Vietnamese child running away from him!

I love how political bias comes into play when one of your own comes off like a moron. Why the Bush bashing? Did Bush call our troops idiots? No... John Kerry did.

Shame on anyone who agrees with him. Those that do are at the heart of the decay of patriotism in the United States. You are the ones who own everything foreign, applaud when US businesses go out of business, and then complain when you cannot find a job. People like you are the ones who placate terrorists and rouge regimes.

You, like Kerry, should be ashamed of yourselves.

Patrick says.....

"It actually sounds like he's calling Bush dumb, not the troops."

The name Bush never came up in the comment. EVER. Not even in his address.

It actually sounds like to me you need to reread the actual quote.

Re "little t" - Most people who say they will change their vote for an entire slate of candidates based on one remark are either stupid or lying.

All you airheads who think a person can't talk about the military without serving please consider Benedict Arnold. He served admirably -- up until he turned traitor.

Kerry was calling Bush "stupid" in a round about way you idiot NeoCon Chickenhawk Warriors.

Kerry is right again.

No one with even a half a brain would have invaded Iraq without a plan for the peace,not even Paulo.

Nov.7,2006 - NeoCon judgment day

tom...

The comment is racist??!!??!!

Get a clue bud. I am in full agreement with your assessment of this up to that point.

One of the problems with this whole ordeal is the people that bring all of these extra inferences to this quote.

What the moron Senator said was pretty straightforward. Neither Bush nor any race was referred to here. It was the whole of the Military. Wake up folks!

John Kerry (2004 Democratic Party nominee for President, and titular leader of that party) merely voiced the elitist anti-military sentiments that he and all too many Liberals hold. Frank James's main regret is that Kerry was, for once, too honest.

John Kerry--the gift that keeps giving.

Twist the words? Why? It's not necessary? Enlighten me as to how he's calling Bush dumb and not the troops he clearly references. And please, all you Swamp posters keep posting that what he said was true. Let our men and women in uniform know EXACTLY how you feel about them.

The problem with the "misquoted" argument, too, is that you can't misquote video which clearly shows the quote Kerry uttered.

This man is manna from Heaven for republicans. He looked down on the electorate for his entire 2004 presidential campaign and now he's turning his nose up at our soldiers. All you people defending him should be ashamed. Where are all the supposed soldier and veteran Swamp posters who are really just democrat activists now? Want to tell us again how much democrats care about our soldiers and sailors?

And all you posters saying what a great veteran Kerry is need to wake up, too. Remember, this is the man who came back from Vietnam and joined the radical left in helping to handcuff our troops that were still there.

Frank James, I've been critical of you in the past but I'll give credit where credit is due, great timely post on a developing story.

As a veteran of Afghanistan, I am incredibly offended by your comment. Saddened that a Senator of the United States of America would undermine the many who proudly serve their country without reservation. John Kerry your comments sicken me and reiterate why you were not an attractive candidate for President. Put your snobby, snot-nosed, elitist, preppy attitude away for a moment and apologize to those who proudly serve. By the way, us dumb folk in uniform will continue to fight for your liberties to say assanine comments...

This is for master of reaility......"Not "

Like all libs you have the same stupid talking points. If you would stop watching and listing to the drive by media and do some research you would see that it takes a real man to take up cause and defend this country. The men and women in the military are one that give you the oppertunity to spread your propaganda.

I have a lot of friends over there in Iraq and they went there because they are making a difference. That doesnt make them uneducated or stupid like your guy John Kerry..

And for the record:

The us economy is kicking butt, its strong and growing. In the 36 months since the Bush tax cuts ended the recession that began under President Clinton, the economy has experienced astonishing growth.

Over the first half of this year, our economy grew at a strong 4.1 percent annual rate, faster than any other major industrialized nation.

The strong economic activity has generated historic revenue growth that has shrunk the national deficit.

The US Unemployment is almost nil for a major economy, and is verging on full employment. Jobless claims fell to the lowest level in 10 weeks. Employment increased in 48 states over the past 12 months ending in August. Our economy has now added jobs for 37 straight months.

The Dow is hitting record highs. In the past few days, the Dow climbed above 12,000 for the first time in the history of the stock market, thus increasing the value of countless pension and 401(k) that funds many Americans rely on for their retirement years.

The Wages in the country have risen dramatically. According to the Washington Post, demand for labor helped drive workers' average hourly wages, not including those of most managers, up to $16.84 last month -- a 4 percent increase from September 2005, the fastest wage growth in more than five years.

Nominal wage growth has been 4.1 percent so far this year. This is better or comparable to its 1990s peaks. Over the first half of 2006, employee compensation per hour grew at a 6.3 percent annual rate adjusted for inflation. Real after-tax income has risen a whopping 15 percent since January 2001.

The Real after-tax income per person has risen by 9 percent since January 2001.

Gas prices have plunged, and Bush had nothing to do with that. It was the Market that determined what the price would be.

According to the Associated Press, the price of gasoline has fallen to its lowest level in more than 10 months.

Since 9/11, no terrorist attacks have occurred on U.S. soil. (THANKS TO OUR MILITARY AND OUR PRESIDENT)

Since 9/11 the U.S. has not been attacked by terrorists thanks to such programs as the administration's monitoring of communications between al-Qaida operatives overseas and their agents in the U.S. and the monitoring of the international movement of terrorist funds -- both measure bitterly opposed by Lib Democrats.

Thanks to President Bush he has kept his promise of naming conservative judges to keep out the wack jobs that the Democrats keep putting in because they can't win elections, they can only steal them.

And to your cut about the defict, it has been cut in half three years ahead of the president's 2009 goal, with the 2006 fiscal year budget deficit down to $248 billion. The tax cuts have stimulated the economy and are working.

So, if you still vote for a Democrat, you must be one of the people that John Kerry is talking about:

"You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework, you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in the Democratic Party.

STILL STUCK ON STUPID!!!

John Kerry, are they really despicable Republican attacks; or just denunciations of your vitriol?

John Kerry isn't a veteran; he's just someone who wore the uniform. Those of us who have served know the difference!

Geeee.....where are all the rebutal's from the lefties today???
Did your boy Kerry silence you cowards for a couple of days????
Come out from under your desks...we're waiting.
Paulo

There may be people in the military who can't do anything else. My son, a straight A student with a scholarship to 2 universities, joined the military because he felt it was his obligation as an American. My biggest concern in this election is everyone is looking at the war and believing the democrats will end it. That is a farce, any body who gets in will still have a difficult time ending the war right away. The dems are looking at getting in on the promise of ending the war but all one will see is more taxes, more jobs lost, higher gas prices, higher interests rates, etc. You want to place your vote on just one issue? Then maybe, if Kerry is correct, you should be over in Irag. Shame on people looking at only one area and not looking at the whole picture. My vote will go to the candidate who is closest to my concerns and beliefs - not just on the fact they say they will work to end the war.

M in PA

""It actually sounds like he's calling Bush dumb, not the troops."

The name Bush never came up in the comment. EVER."

Correct. Very critical point. It did not even come up in his "official response" on his very own website.

I guess the Kerry apologists expect that I simply forgive Kerry's inability to communicate properly on that his simply intoxicated with his mindless hatred of Bush and all the troops have to give him the benefit of the doubt on that basis.

Poppycock. He simply must either apolgize for what he correctly expressed OR what he "didn't mean" but did a pathetic job of communicating of his fool self to the troops who heard it.

For those that think Kerry's words are being twisted by the GOP, what is it that Kerry was saying that could be acceptable? Even if it is the case that he is calling the current commander and chief stupid, does this message exhibit the character of a person you would expect from the position that John Kerry holds? I think the comment made by Kerry reflects his true character, and that is the real issue here.

Could we all be rational for a second?

To those veterans who are offended: You SHOULD be offended. But you should also be offended by Rumsfeld & Co who treat people in the service as so much cannon fodder. Despite the flag-waving and sentimental jabber about "our heroes and she-roes", you are numbers on a sheet to them. Reminds me of McNamara and his spreadsheets.

To those Democrats who are mounting a defense: Sure, the quote was taken out of context. Sure, Kerry is communicationally challenged and probably was referring to Bush. But while it is a quote taken out of context, it is of a recurring pattern. Democrats used to be the party of "the little guy" and they made hay pointing out that the Republicans were just the party of the rich elite. Ever wonder how the tables got switched on them? Because Democrats repeatedly, over many years, have assumed this we-know-best posture.

Politicos of both parties trip over one another trying to show how much they "support our troops". If there were any real support, they wouldn't have been put in harm's way for no good reason. So get a grip, will you? Most of these clowns wouldn't know a corporal from a corkscrew, so could you look at the real issues please?

Jay,
What did Bush do about terror? Left Afghanistan before we killed Bin Laden, disbanded the unit searching for him (the Taliban is regrouping), invaded a country that had nothing to do w/ 9/11(this month the most deadly for US soldiers in 2 years of fighting), trashed the Constitution, shredded the Geneva Conventions, left our ports, railways, and borders unsecured, took credit for disrupting a plot to bomb airliners flying from England to the USA by insisting they were being monitored thanks to the Terrorist Surveillance Program yet when a copy of the No-Fly list from March 2006 was obtained none of the names of the suspects we were supposedly monitoring appeared on the list. Would you like to discuss more about how this party in power has failed average Americans? I can keep going.

Jethro, Barbara, et al. Enlighten me as to how you take video out of context? I've seen the ENTIRE speech on YouTube (type in John Kerry, LA) and you'll find it. He's very clearly not referring to Bush he's saying that about the people defending his freedom of speech with their lives. I don't know why any of this surprises anyone. He's done this plenty of times before.

That was soooo a dig on Bush..but of course none of the imbeciles that voted him in a 2nd term and who STILL have the audacity to display their "W04" stickers on their cars will get that.

American democracy is in deep trouble if all we go by is one sentence by one politican in one race.

While out there real people are dying and real money is being wasted, we are reading too much into what one senator says (and he's just one senator, not the president).

Kerry, when speaking from the heart, belies what he truly believes.

This GOPer thanks John Kerry for putting his a** on the line and saving the Republican Party. When he had a chance to apologize, he dug his hole deeper. Political futures markets are turning on this, as sharply as they did with Foley.

Hey, I've finally figured out what the "swiftboating" term all you dem posters keep complaining about actually means. It's called quoting John Kerry's own words back to him. No one should ever quote Kerry's words. Got it!

President Lone Ranger does the following during his administration, yet none of the Right Wing Nut Jobs give a rat's behind about it, but let some left wing know-it-all from the East Coast say something stupid and all of a sudden they are all riled up. Get a Clue -
1. Let's 9-11 happen on their watch. The head of the CIA schedules several meetings with Bush & Rice three months before 9-11. Rice is disinterested and Bush waves the meetings off. The topic of discussion for those meetings? "Al Qaeda to strike Continental States Soon". Read "State of Denial" and stop living it.
2. Puts our troops in harms way in Iraq by not providing enough troop levels that the Generals requested. Does not disarm the 300,000 Republican Guard loyal to Saddam. Results? Highest American casualties since Viet Nam.
3. Record Deficits.With tax cuts to the wealthiest 2%, Bush shifts the costs of Iraq to the middle class. Results? An out of control budget and the middle class getting less out of their money due to soaring interest rates.

I wish that you neo-con right wing nut jobs would get upset about something that really affected this country in an adverse way. Like your President's handling of this nation. Get pissed about that.

The facts about our army, facts that Liberals such as John Kerry and his chortling collegiate crowd can't comprehend:

"According to a comprehensive study of all enlistees for the years 1998-99 and 2003 that The Heritage Foundation just released, the typical recruit in the all-volunteer force is wealthier, more educated and more rural than the average 18- to 24-year-old citizen is. Indeed, for every two recruits coming from the poorest neighborhoods, there are three recruits coming from the richest neighborhoods.

If, for example, we consider the education of every recruit, 98% joined with high-school diplomas or better. By comparison, 75% of the general population meets that standard. Among all three-digit ZIP code areas in the USA in 2003 (one can study larger areas by isolating just the first three digits of ZIP codes), not one had a higher graduation rate among civilians than among its recruits."

John Kerry can insult our soldiers, insults that the crowd chuckled over. But the lowliest Private in our army does more for our country than a dozen elitist campus Lefties, or their chosen spokesman.

How did this turn to Bush..funny how Liberals look to point blame elsewhere.. This was a comment made from Kerry about the military, that’s it! and I agree he should apologize.. and not only was his comment horrible but his response to Snow's was even worse.. talk about an angry man. Oh and if you want to open up our boarders, forget about terrorists (like Clinton did), put a nut job in power (Pelosi), kill the global economy (sorry liberals were global now, get use to it), or destroy education.. Elect a Democrat!

How did so many conclusions get drawn from a 10 second audio clip? Taken on its own, it is an inaccurate and mean-spirited comment at best. However, somehow I think there is more to it, in the context of the entire speech. Could the trib post the entire speech?

Paulo says "Geeee.....where are all the rebutal's from the lefties today??? "

Paulo: being a lib doesn't mean I have to defend everyone in the Democratic party. That's the sort of tribal loyalty that the Republicans, and you (and Al-Qaeda, and Taliban, etc.) are all about. We want to get back to the days when there was healthy criticism of anyone who deserved it.

"That was soooo a dig on Bush..but of course none of the imbeciles that voted him in a 2nd term and who STILL have the audacity to display their "W04" stickers on their cars will get that."

With a sweeping, mindless "they're all dumb" generalization of that kind, we can agree Kerry is still your man.

to Zuzu, then call me stupid -- you may wish to note that I gave the DNC two different outs -- one) demonstrate the quote to be inaccurate
two) apologize completely

am I still stupid ??

(OK I was lying about pulling the lever which I would never do -- I said that in haste -- but otherwise I stand by my threat)

and to Jay,

you are correct , I overstated when I added the "racist" comment -- I was angry -- I happen to take care of LOTS of Iraq vets who are mostly (but not entirely) young black or hispanic men who are reservists in between deployments -- courageous and smart and hard-working and not married to a rich spouse -- they believe in their cause but they work for their families (most of them are the primary bread-winners) -- much of the economic changes that cs mentioned above that forced these young men into their economic circumstances were prevelant under Clinton -- (downsizing/Enron/mega-mergers/outsourcing/NAFTA) -- these are proud brave black white and hispanic men and women and John Kerry should know better -- but then again I saw what he said live in front of congress about his buddies committing "war crimes" -- he's a phony and if the democrats don't condemn what he said (it might have been aimed to hurt Bush but the way the phrase has so far been quoted, he was referring to military service in Iraq pure and simple) then they are complicit in his condescension

I love these young people which I care for on a daily basis and I will not stand silent while someone pretends that words don't mean what they mean. The fact that the soldiers are disproportionately hispanic or black does make the remarks somewhat racially insensitive but not necessarily racist -- I can make a retraction -- can the DNC ??????????????????????????????????????????????

retract -- now and without equivocation or you have lost my vote as I try to choose the lesser of evils

tom -- little t -- the MD who didn't vote for Bush (I guess a stupid MD according to some)

John Kerry's remarks do well to remind us of the total disregard the left has for the honor, intelligence and integrity of our nation's men and women in uniform. Our warriors are some of the best and brightest any nation on earth has to offer. Their courage should humble and honor all of us. I would love to put our service men and women in a room with our propoganda and beer bloated college attendees and recent grads. Our current batch of elite university students have been farm raised on the milk sop of our Ivy League universities and they so often degrade and dishonor the true heroes of this nation. Our men and women in uniform have chosen to serve a greater good and far outclass those who have chosen to serve themselves by seeking their existential nonrealities. Those on the left will continue to dishonor those who fight and die for this nation because true heroes shame them and their foolish ideology.

Bill and others,
You're right, there is nothing that can be taken out of context. I didn't want to rush to judgment. At the time I had not read or seen any clips from this speach, just what the Swamp had which only covered the quote we are discussing. John Kerry is a fool and I would love to see hime publicly whipped. The Bush Administration has failed average Americans and they will continue to hold all 3 branches because of this scumbag who cannot keep his mouth shut.

"I overstated when I added the "racist" comment -- I was angry"

...I only wish Kerry could be so honorable.

Retraction joyfully accepted.

;)

Just listen to John Kerry trying and dance his way out of this one. Oh sure, John. You're just a victim of those Waskally Wepublicans, who "distorted your words". And it wasn't your voice saying what I clearly heard with my own ears.

My sister-in-law shipped out to Iraq last week - she is a Navy Lieutenant and Chaplain; married with two young children; holds a Master's Degree, and a degree in Divinity.

Those of you who write that only people with nothing to lose go to Iraq, are in good company with John Kerry. He doesn't get it, either.

To Dienne and the rest of the Left Wing Kool Aid drinkers: John Kerry has a history of dissing the troops, going all the way back to early 1970s to earlier this year when he said they were murderers and rapists. Kerry was NOT talking about Bush.

You folks just need to keep it simple and just vote for your corrupt governor (Blagoyavich), your corrupt Crooked County Board president candidate (Todd Stroger), your corrupt congresswoman/wife (Jan Schakowsky), your corrupt IL treasurer candidate (Gianoulious).

The Left hates the military and all members of it. Historical fact.

The level of contempt directed against us sensible, clear-eyed, Constitution-loving "liberals" in some of the comments here makes me more determined than ever to fight to wrestle our country out of the hands of today's Repuglican party.

I support our military. I hope their morale is not affected by stupidity of others.

RogerB -- YES! Right you are on criticism of all idiots being the only way to go.

For everyone that says this is out of context and he didn't mean it, here's Kerry from an old "Face the Nation" saying that U.S. troops terrorize women and children in their homes in Iraq and that "Iraqis should be doing that." This guy is a panacea for Bush & co.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFFk9qy_SBw

I think Kerry was speaking of George Bush's intellegence and sticking the entire nation in Iraq.

Kerry, with his superior attitude toward the little guy (me) and the soldiers is the same attitude that the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth were talking about when they campaigned against him. He exhibits the distain that most of the media and the Democrats have for those in our military who defend freedom throughout the world. He continues to disgust!

Kerry is clueless about how Americans really live. Married people overwhelmingly support conservatives because we see how much in taxes we're paying.

All of our friends in the military have advanced degrees, except for one who wanted to join, even though his college was paid for.

AN FYI: Our Governor's ex-wife (Corzine in New Jersey) warned us that Corzine would cheat on us like he cheated on her. He was elected and withing 2 Months broke his promise to not raise taxes.

Democrats are completely untrustworthy.

And to all of your "State of Denialer's" who claim that this country is prospering so greatly under President Lone Ranger, just go back to the front of the Chicago Tribune'w web page and scroll down to the Business Section. The three main stories there?
1. Consumer Confidence indicators decline
2. Chicago business activity indicators decline
3. Stocks go low from data
The only people prospering in this country are shareholders of Haliburton, anyone with vested interests in the Oil Industry, and the top 2% of this nation's wealthiest. The Middle Class? This administration takes a big humongous dump on them.Anyone who thinks otherwise is either a Stooge or a representative from FOX NEWS.

I haven't voted for a democrat for President since Hubert Humphrey. That's where I'm coming from. I am however praying that Hillary gets the nomination and not this gas bag. She actually has some integrity and wouldn't be caught dead making such an idiotic remark, even if she was of the same belief, however incorrect. G-d bless our troops!!

Good for Kerry, he's right. On another note, the white house needs to apoligize to the American people for it's lies before it demands anybody apoligizes to it first.

Just watched Kerry give his rebuttal on tv- sounds like he's saying, "ignore what I said. You know what I meant to say". Typical of the breed.

The level of contempt directed against us sensible, clear-eyed, Constitution-loving "liberals" in some of the comments here makes me more determined than ever to fight to wrestle our country out of the hands of today's Repuglican party.

Posted by: Elanor | Oct 31, 2006 1:53:55 PM

You love the constitution but support those who hate the military men and women that preserve it. That's why you and your kind are held in contempt.

Thank you, Ms Bennet. Way to go, Elanor. We really need the "fight to wrestle our country out of the hands of today's Repuglican party".

Remember there's early voting here in Illinois (till Thursday). It's very convenient to vote now, so let's hope there's a great turnout.

Does anybody who ever trained to fly a fighter jet think that Bush failed to serve his country in the National Guard? You who proudly say Bush never served are apparently not aware of the fatality rate among jet fighter trainees.

Stupid is what you'd have to be to believe that Kerry, a decorated veteran who actually went to war (unlike Bush, Cheney, Snow, the list goes on) thinks people fighting for the USA in Iraq are stupid. It's President Bush's demonstrably deficient IQ that he is razzing. For right-wingers to seize on this joke—from a man who isn't running for anything in '06—as some kind of reason for the entire country not to vote Democrat is an insult to all of our intelligence. We're not that dumb, guys.

John Kerry has secretly been recruited by the Republican Party and is trying to help them win this election. How else could you possibly explain his comments one week before this election?

I'll tell you who insulted the troops - Donald Rumsfeld by threatening to FIRE ANYONE that suggested we needed a post invasion plan. Lack of said plan has contributed to the death of every one of our soldiers afer invasion! Kerry was right to the extent that the better educated a person is the better their opportunities in life are. The GOP is getting mighty desperate in their scrutiny of Democrat's oratory pre-election. Me thinks they doth protest too much!

wow, Trib's going YouTube with the news. Couldn't of picked a better place to start. --this would qualify as irrelevant, but atleast you know people take notice when media changes.

Socialistic Republic of Massachusetts is in the state of its own and Kerry is its proud son. What did you expected from the Beacon Hill Brahmin?

Do you know that when he bought his Beacon Hill mansion ($8M+) the fire hydrant upfront of his house was moved not to spoil Senators view? How many people would be able to get this?

We are all gray masses to him - undeserving, uneducated and unwashed. He was sent to America to rule us - God Kerry - low life traitor of our country armed forces who with their life and blood protect his freedom that allows him and other like him to insult those who protect them.

Shame on them. And shame on us for allowing this and to continually electing this people.

Bill,

Nice to see you have the b**ls to come back,and comment on a "safe" story for the NeoCon Chickenhawk Warriors.

What Kerry said makes no difference anyway.

He is only one Senator,thanks to KKKarl Rove,and his band of swiftboat liars.

You've already "swiftboated" him,doing it again is not going to save your sorry a**es,during this election.

People realize that your Braindead Prez,and your lockstep Republican do-nothing Congress have gotten thousands of people killed with no plan whatsoever.

Did Paulo say something???

Are we to believe John Kerry's explanation of his remarks today or should we believe our lyin' eyes and ears as to what he said yesterday?

Come on, even you neanderthal chickenhawk repuglican bush* ass-kissers know Kerry was talking about pResident Bush*, the unelected idiot son of an assh*le, who got this country and it's brave men and women STUCK IN IRAQ based on lies, deception and stupidity. And we ARE stuck in Iraq the Quagmire whether you want to admit it or not. It does not matter if the soldier is an intelectual dead-ender or a PhD., 100 of those brave men and women are DEAD this month, DEAD due to that stupid ass George Bush* and his policy of fear, lies, deceit and criminal destruction of the constitution and our country. John Kerry honors those men and women, is an educated man who fought for our country instead of protecting texas like chicken hawk george who couldn't even bother to show up for duty. Our country was stuck in Viet Nam at the time. So i ask why you members of the 101st fighting keyboarders are here preaching your slime from your mother's basement and not in Iraq helping Herr Bush* and his war on America? Oh, because you are chicken hawks too? Thought so...

As I stated in an earlier post I cringed when I read of Senator Kerry's statement. I also said that he didn't need to give that kind of sound bite so close to an election. I knew what kind of knee-jerk reaction it would get and am sorry I was right. What people need to understand is that the Senator was not disrespecting the military in any way. He was merely pointing out that when you fail in your education your options become limited. The military is quite often an option for young people to start over andd receive training to benefit their lives. Right now, however, this option means possibly serving in an understaffed and ill advised war of which we have very little hope of winning. Not a really good option right now.

Serving your country is an honorable path that many men and women choose. it is my opinion, and I believe that of Senator Kerry, that those men and women that serve their country so bravely are not being well served by their government right now. Failing in one's education limits your options and one of the few options available is the military. This is by no means saying that those who serve are uneducated. Sound bites are dangerous things and I dearly wish the Senator understood that better.

My problem is with Senator Kerry. It is not a partisan issue at all. I am sick of all of you Republicans (I am a disillusioned Republican right now) making broad comments and suppositions that if you are against the war then you are against the military. That is patently false. Senator Kerry's remarks cannot be defended because he of all people should know more about our military.

Every night I tell my son if he doesn't do his homework- he will end up in Iraq. Oh, he's in 8th grade!

"Kerry's comments were stupid, even if he was misquoted"

Having done a bit of research, what Kerry was actually referring to was students' difficulties in figuring out how our higher education system and opportunities for accessing its resources actually works. The ones that do their homework and figure it all out can often get to the resources, many others don't have the time or don't understand what's required, and so end up elsewhere -- sometimes in the military in war zones like Iraq -- instead.

People, you all know how this works, this game of dogging politicians, shipping tape of their appearances to some campaign workshop where operatives watch it and brainstorm ways to use it create the portrait of that politician they're trying to paint.

George Allen's "macaca" moment is a perfect example. I'm old enough to have heard that term as an old racial slur. Even so I waited until I saw the tape, heard details of the incident and listened to the Allen campaign's responses before
deciding what it said about George Allen in context.

John Kerry is a decent guy from a privileged background who negotiated tough terrain during his time as an anti-war activist, and I'm not talking just about Nixon's campaign to discredit him. The Vietnam vets movement against the war comprised all sorts of voices from all sorts of socio-economic classes, experiences and political points of view. He sought, and found with some success, a way to honor those cacophonous voices by speaking their truths to powerful opponents without completely ripping the country apart.

He's shown respect for our democracy and her citizens, including -- especially -- those in the military throughout his career. When you give in to reaction you help undo what he and so many others have tried to rebuild over the years -- a civil society that respects and listens to all points of view because that's what the principle of equality obligates us to do.

What an offensive comment.

My husband is a well-educated, successful professional who joined the Navy reserve after 9/11. He is currently serving this country in Iraq, making personal sacrifices on every level to do his military duty. He would certainly be very disappointed to hear the views expressed by John Kerry. In my view an apology by Mr. Kerry would be so clearly political that it would be meaningless. Mr. Kerry has demonstrated his poor character and is truly an embarrassment to the Democratic party.

By dispatching National Security Advisor Hadley to Iraq to discuss sending more troops and stop lost my family again. This fresh edvidence the President Bush's and Secretary Rumsfeld ploicy has failed.
With the Iraqi government having conceded part of Bagdad to the control of Sectarian militias it show the Iraqi's are not or will they ever be able to take control of their own Country.
Our brave men and women in uniform deserve a plan for success that is worthy of their sacrifice not talk here from people who never wore the uniform.
Not from people here who put down people who have served our great nation.
103 of our finest men and women have been lost in this month alone. Some people here disrespect them with their talking points and bull. Rest in Peace my brother and sister veterans. May St. Peter know a soldier is reporting for duty.

Mr. Kerry is a pathetic excuse for a leader. His comments are offensive to veterans, active duty, and their families. I am an active duty Marine Gunnery Sergeant with 22 years of service. Mr Kerry's remarks have angered me beyond belief. I enlisted in the Marine Corps when I graduated from High School. I had a 3.0 GPA, and could have gone to college on a track scholarship. I WANTED to be a Marine! In the 22 years that I've had the privilege to wear the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor, I have yet to see A SINGLE Marine who didn't want to be here. This is not the first time Mr. Kerry has denigrated the military, and it most likely won't be the last. Mr. Kerry has proven to be a first calss idiot, but in the end he was only saying what 90% of Democrats think. Mr. Kerry can come debate this ignorant Jarhead anytime, although I doubt he has the sack to back up his ignorant comments.

John Kerry is a decorated Veteran.
He VOLUNTEERED for combat in Vietnam.

FACT:
Our "tough guy" Vice President DICK CHENEY, REQUESTED & RECEIVED FIVE DRAFT DEFERRMENTS FROM THE VIETNAM WAR, so he could sit at home in Wyoming and drink beer.

It is truly refreshing to see that little has changed in the hermetically sealed world of John Kerry. The man has once again demonstrated to the world at large that he is as much of a pompous egregious ass as he was when he was running for President. The only difference here is that he has demonstrated reaching a level of "jerkitude" that I didn't think even he in his wildest dreams could manage to obtain. At the very least, he has done a magnificent if not almost majestic job of showing the absolute, total, complete and utter contempt he has towards the U.S. Military that has pretty much been the bread and butter of his entire political career. On that point alone, I will give him credit for at least being consistent. The man is truly a legend in his own mind.

Some of you folks really need to audit Remedial Reading 101 at your local community college (you know - those liberal institutions where they give you the basic skills you need to function intelligently in a participative democracy):

The comment was preceded by a remark about Kerry having just returned from Texas where "Bush used to live but now lives in a state of denial" so the comment is arguably very much about Bush - not the soldiers. Move along folks - nothing to see here......

John Kerry -- how stupid can you be??

John Kerry has been lying about and denigrating our troops ever since he lied during the "Winter Soldier Hearings." The man has no business being a US Senator, much less the Commander-in-Chief.

It is time for someone in the Democrat Party to have a Sistah Souljah moment and tell this elitist, egotistical piece of scum:

"You have sat too long for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!"

"being a lib doesn't mean I have to defend everyone in the Democratic party. That's the sort of tribal loyalty that the Republicans, and you (and Al-Qaeda, and Taliban, etc.) are all about. We want to get back to the days when there was healthy criticism of anyone who deserved it."

Posted by: Roger B. | Oct 31, 2006 1:41:03 PM

Absolutely right. The ability and willingness to criticize those so deserved is the foudation of any democracy, and I see plenty of it going on there today.

But I'll tell you what, I'd much rather stand with those who recognizes both the follies of the current administration AND the idiocy of the Kerry remark, than with the mega freedom-fried dittoheads.

Roger B,

You must be new to The Swamp. Otherwise you'd know that here there's plenty of mindless tribal loyalty on the Left too.

Enrique wrote:

"I don't see what the big deal is. Given that Rove, Bush, and Cheney all served in the military, they have every right to criticize Kerry. Oh, I forgot. They didn't serve in the military. They have zero credibility."

Sorry Enrique, you're wrong. President Bust served as a fighter pilot in the Texas Air National Guard. You are the one who has zero credibility.

Just watched Kerry's news conference on CNN.He absolutely tore into all the Repub Chickenhawks.

Also let McCain have a blast,it was great.

Best part,we're now discussing the Iraq war again,just what Repubs want days before they lose control!!!!

Also gave Fat Limparse are a good shot!!

To those of you who STILL don't understand Liberals...

You rebutt Kerry's comment by stating that you believe, rightfully, that our soldiers are "...the best and brightest among us...".

Yet, it was Nancy Pelosi who, when speaking at a Gay/Lesbian rally and referencing the AIDS epidemic, said that she was angry, disappointed, disheartened, yada, yada, yada, at the Bush administration for not addressing this disease, "... which strikes down the best and brightest among us...".

So you get an insight into Liberal value systems... or lack, thereof...

The hardest part of election season is determining whether what someone says is truly a gaffe or what they really believe. I think Kerry, somewhere inside himeself, really believes it. He has good reason: some of the troops sent to Vietnam got there through being given the choice of "enlist or go to jail", not the best way to encourage high standards in enlistees. It's entirely possible Kerry served with some of these men.

Kerry's reaction statement is classic. Unless the Republican party cobbled together his videotaped statement (for which there's no evidence) it's hard to say there's any "distortion" going on. He said what he said. He should say, "I made a mistake," and move on.

As a veteran with a BA and an MBA, I find it kind of sad that Kerry thinks this way. I have a number of close friends who are still serving on Active Duty and I wouldn't call any of them dumb. Everyone who I know and would call my friend who served was their by choice and was hoping to better their lives and the lives of all Americans by serving in the Armed Forces. They were not there because they were idiots that couldn't get another job, rather because most of them believed it was the right thing to do. I have done some dumb things in my life, but I would argue simply based on my degrees (from two of Chicago's best educational institutions I might add) qualify me for the "not an idiot" category.

One comment that struck was from Master of Reality: You made three points and I would like to answer each of them. I was serving on AD when 9/11 happened so I do happen to have some insight into this.

1)Let 9/11 happen on their watch. Ok you are correct they did, but please keep in mind 9/11 was in the planning phase for 3 years. While there were many, many failures that day, I think it is a little bit irresponsible to pin this all on Bush. Intel is a funny business. It is kind of like a puzzle. You are trying to take 10000 pieces and fit them together to get the whole picture. When you don't have all the pieces on the table, it is really hard to finish the puzzle.

2)Disbanding the Iraqi Army was a really dumb move. This is one area where I will agree with you, although I think the troop levels were correct had they followed the lessons learned in WWII. In WWII, the bulk of the post-war German government were Nazi's. They were the ones who knew how to keep the country running. They were the police, fire, engineers, plumbers etc. The complete de-Baathification of Iraq was a mistake.

3)Congress as a whole needs to go back to being a young teenager when your parents (or at least mine) showed me how to balance a check book. I agree that spending has gotten out of control, but remember Bush came into office at the begining of the recession so the projected surpluses disappeared. Remember they were projected surpluses, not actual surpluses that were touted all over the media. I am in the middle class and I still think the tax cut is a good thing. Don't believe everything that you read in the papers. Yes the guy who makes $2MM a year is paying a whole lot less in taxes and on a actual dollar basis it seems totally unfair. On a percentage basis it is roughly the same savings as I got. he saves more becuase he pays more.

Sorry for ranting. Bottom line is Kerry's comments were idiotic, especially for someone who wanted to and still wants to be president.

Can't anyone see that he is talking about the Bush administration? Why are we not presented with the preceding comments on Bush no longer living in Texas, but now in a "state of denial"? He was obviously talking about Bush, but it sounds like he is making a broad generalization about our military, if you're too stupid to follow a train of thought spanning multiple sentences.

Pay attention people.

the military is a white trash profession... Kerry is right; it's a shame that the Repiglicans are creating an underclass of losers who think the military is a good deal.. these morons who signed up after 911 aren't even fighting for "their country."

www.savagerun.com

I guess the big question here is, why is everyone so surprised? Typical east coast millionaire, or at least his wife is. He's in politics because he can't do anything else. He stunk in the military then lied about it. He protested against the troops, a regular flower child, the only thing missing was Jane Fonda! Now he keeps inserting his foot in his mouth. Common people lighten up, get all the facts, not just the one's you want to hear, the way you want to hear them. This is politics! Why the hell would you want this job if there was something else you could do? These are not motivated people, they have a golden spoon up there you know what. No worries, no bills, no mortgage, not exactly like the rest of us, are they? Yet we worship them, we elect them even they don't have a clue. This goes for both parties, just at times certain individuals are bigger idiots then most.

I fail to see how it's a gaffe. If you get an education, and take advantage of it, you have more choices than someone who doesn't. Without an education, maybe your only choice will be joining the armed forces. He's obviously not saying that everyone in the armed forces is uneducated.

However, if you, Mr. James, insist this non-gaffe is a gaffe, more people will think it is a gaffe.

I say God Bless John Kerry for calling Rush Limbaugh "doughy". Every Democrat should be saying this every day.

RUSH LIMBAUGH IS A DOUGHY IDIOT.

To a moderate Republican who is open to voting for a sensible Democrat Kerry shows why so many people have trouble with the Dems these days. I heard the tape and immediately wondered how anyone saying those words could possibly spin their way out of it. To angrily blame the opposing party is so lame and tells me that he's desperate or arrogant and clearly doesn't get it. Take responsibility for once. If nothing else than to help salvage your party's chances next week. The Dems are a long way from getting it together. Their timing is so ripe for winning the house but they can't seem to get out of their own way.

From msnbc.com:

A source close to Kerry tells NBC News that he was trying to make a "tough and honest joke" about Bush and that in the process he omitted two words which changed the intended meaning. Per the source, Kerry meant to say that he can't "overstress the importance of a great education" and that "if you don't study, if you aren't smart, if you're intellectually lazy... You end up getting us stuck in a war in Iraq." Kerry mistakenly dropped the "getting us" from his initial remarks.

I don't like Kerry but considering the how severely inappropriate his comment otherwise is I have to believe that he simply mispoke and was intending to comment on Bush and the Bush administration. Whether or not comments like that are productive is another discussion.

Lone ranger? Oh you mean the 30 Allied countries that Kerry can't see or are invisible like Poland, U.K. etc. Thank you Mr. Kerry you just handed us 06 and 08 elections. Or the current U.N. resolution supporting the occuption. I supposed all the countries that voted yes are lone ranger too?

Further update. Yes, it really was a joke about Bush. Here's the report from the NYTimes:

The senator, who was campaigning for the Democratic gubernatorial candidate, Phil Angelides, opened with several one-liners, joking at one point that President Bush had lived in Texas but now “lives in a state of denial.”

Then, Mr. Kerry said: “You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”

The reference is to George Bush, who didn't study hard, didn't do his homework, didn't make the effort to be smart. And so, instead of doing well (which is different from being born well off), he's stuck in Iraq.

Think, people. It's patriotic.
.

For those who didn't think it was about Bush, read the entire transcript. He was making a series of jokes about GW, and didn't phrase the last one very well. As usual, the right wing noise machine picked up on that and twisted it around to make poilitcal gain out of it. They did this to him before. He's not a good fit for president, because he is prone to making verbal gaffes, but no one seems to be demanding an apology from bush for calling 3,000 dead soldiers a "comma" in history, or for Dick Cheney's pro-torture statement. How many verbal gaffes does Bush get a free ride on?

The intent was clear... but those who are desperate to hold onto power will do anything, distort everything, to try and win one from defeat.

We'll see how this plays out. It's nice that Kerry is fighting back for once, but he should learn to be a better speaker.

"The level of contempt directed against us sensible, clear-eyed, Constitution-loving "liberals" in some of the comments here makes me more determined than ever to fight to wrestle our country out of the hands of today's Repuglican party."

Oh right,...like you were "on the fence" until what you just read here.

Give me a break. You might think you have the power to sway someone's next vote here, but you're the only one.

What I'm puzzled about is how you can be so "clear eyed" yet hold faceless posters here to a higher expectation of successful communcation than Kerry himself.

*THIS* is what the Trib considers news? Nothing more than B.S. talking points from the GOP and the White House. Why isn't the front page story about the fact that U.S. troops just stood down in Al-Sadr under orders from al-maliki? What the heck is the deal with THAT?! I'd like to read the NEWS, not GOP propaganda.

Son, there ain't no draft no more.

"AcademyGrad" (a name unlikely to be based in any reality), what percentage of our armed forces go to one of the academys? The fact is the majority of soldiers never took the SAT as you claim. Officers are but a fraction of our military.

The percentage of military personnel with a college degree is lower than that of the general population. Fact. End of story. You're argument is DOA.

Kerry was right.

He didn't say all military personnel were uneducated, he simply said being less educated increases the likelihood of military service being one's only option.

This is an indisputable truth, and you and the rest of the "hacks" Kerry mentioned should be ashamed of your transparent feigned outrage.

Of course, you aren't...that's what makes you a modern Republican.

Kudos to Kerry for finally exercising his spine for the first time since the 70s.

Having quite college, enlisted and later attended West Point, I can tell you first hand that by and large, the average enlisted troop is 100 times more intelligent, motivated, mission driven that their civilian counterparts.

The folks that think what Kerry said is true probably don't even know anyone in the service. You should not only be ashamed that he represented you but that you are ignorant of those that defend you.

I've got to say, that the number of commenters that AGREE with Kerry but think it shouldn't be voiced is absolutely appalling.

Why don't you educate yourselves about who your soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines really are?

concerning all the comments from democrats and republicans about john kerrys very apparent unfortunate use of words--wouldnt it be great if those calling other names such as idiot etc would view each other instead with respect because we all are american citizens and we are all on the same side, against terrorism- i am registered democrat and there are good and and not so good people whether they are democrat or republican. we can disagree we each other and still uphold each others value and show each other respect-all at the same time. would be nice if john kerry would acknowledge poor choice of words-but he may not-when people are attacked natural response is usually to defend oneself.

Looks like I won't be voting for John Kerry!

Pat Tillman had an education, and a solid career as an NFL athlete before deciding to commit to defend his country. Many others have had a path to success and chosen this route as well. What Sen. Kerry said was not very well thought out.

That said, to see some of the responses here of the supporters of either R or D, just completely defeats any hope I have of our country ever truly focusing on the tremendous challenges that we are and will be facing.

The other part of his quote offends me even more- "if you study hard, you can be successful". Not all of us get to marry Wealthy Ketchup Heiresses and live Martha's Vineyards lifestyles. Both the R and D are so out-of-touch with reality that it completely baffles me that anyone supports any of these people, yet every day there are no less than 50 posts from either side lobbing their "2-cents" grenades back and forth on marginal issues.

Iraq is a huge election factor, and yes I have relatives serving and am hoping that they can come home soon - they've been lied to twice already and had their tours extended - that's another story altogether.

What is of greater immediate concern is social security, healthcare costs - skyrocketing without anyone addressing this? energy costs - here in IL Com Ed is ALREADY TRYING TO GET ANOTHER RATE HIKE APPROVED. Does anyone else see that the bridge is out at the end of the track???

I want to see a candidate propose a cap of $50 donation allowance from "special interests", and a cap on the number of "registered lobbyists". Both sides of the aisle are sticking it to us, but we're too busy throwing rocks at each other to look at the bigger picture.

To anyone saying Bush avoided the military; how could Dan Rather "expose" his history during his service in the Texas Air National Guard without out Bush having been in the military. Any National Guard unit is military, so it is obvious that Bush did serve in the military during Vietnam. It was not in Vietnam, but it was during Vietnam. Please get your historical facts correct since they are extremely public record due to Dan Rather and J. F. Kerry bringing it up during the campaign.

I'm a student of international relations and also the proud wife of an enlisted Marine. As a matter of foreign policy, I have some big reservations with the way the Bush presidency has chosen to carry out things in Iraq, but Kerry's remarks are despicable, and become even more so after watching the video of his speech. My husband did not join the USMC because he was a poor student and had no other choice. He joined because of 9.11. And many of our good friends and acquaintances joined for the same reason. I have been really tormented about who to vote for this election, but once again the Democrats have but their foot in their mouths showing how arrogant and hostile they are. Republicans may do the same at times, but at least they have a vision. It's up to the rest of us to mold that vision as citizens through pressure... but I'm not joining the Democrats' vision or lack of it. We'd spend the next two years in a deadlock.

Kerry was just being honest. Those hackjobs who talk about all these "educated people in the military" are just so full of it. They'll actually blatantly lie and twist numbers around and not even consider all the cannonfodder that comes and goes in and out of the military. They'll say "look at all the career military officers who have degrees." lol it's pathetic spin, and they simply cannot stop doing it even if their lives depended on it.

Since when is it ok to lie and spin to counter a statement of truth? lol. It's so absurd, this is something that needs to be burned into the heads of americans. For too long we suffer from political correctness. There is reality, and there is fantasy. Nothing else.

Guess what. You're stupid. We're all stupid. We're a dumbed down, fat, drugged out, irresponsible, pathetic culture, mindwashed and brainscrewed by 50+ years of television.

Nothing Kerry says should offend us any more than any of these other ugly truths. And you don't want to hear the ugly truth, then fine. Go stick your head up the nearest republican butt for 2 more years.

Potter, you remind me of a saying:

I hate everyone who generalizes.

Bruce, nice spin, but your facts have no bearing on the argument at hand.

Bottom line: the general population has a higher percentage of college students/grads than the military.

Indisputable.

I expect nothing less than more spin from you, because you know you can't come at it directly.

"B-b-b-b-but..."

Apparently you DO think it's ok to attack a veteran's honor when he's a politician and the attacker is a chickenhawk hiding behind a computer?

JOHN KERRY IS DELIBERATELY BRINGING DOWN THE DEMS. HE IS THE BEST BUDDY OF MCCAIN. IT'S A REPUBLICAN STUNT TO MAKE DEMS LOSE AND KERRY IS HELPING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know this is more of an opinion piece rather than a neutral article, but could you at least post a full clip of Kerry's speech (or at least more than 10sec) so others can more objectively determine their own opinion on this?

Kerry misspoke--and said the truth, something that most Americans would rather not hear--instead they would rather listen to Bush and his spin doctors feed more lies as more and more American BOYS die in Iraq each day. Another diversionary tactic on the part of the Republicans that will probably work for those who cannot see that the wool keeps getting pulled over our eyes by this administration.

Bottom line for me is he insulted those of us who served (Army here) and those who are currently serving. Funny, last time I checked my military records it shows I still voluntarily enlisted having already earned my bachelor's degree. But to Kerry I'm just some dumb kid. It is interesting to note how angry his retort comes across. He sounds defensive and those who come out so strongly defensive usually know they have made an error or insulted someone. He is such a weak man to not apologize but rather to immediately throw anger at the Republicans. In the military you own your mistake. Why is it that Democrats always want to appear like they support the military but seem to come across demeaning and insincere. Oh wait, it all makes sense. They come across this way because according to the dishonorable Senator from Massachusettes John Kerry all those who served and are serving are a bunch of ignorant terrorists who live to torment Iraqi mothers and children. The Democrats must save America and Americans from themselves. Such an elitist attitude. It makes me sick.

I'm a Republican, and I don't approve of the way President Bush has been or is handling Iraq, but
with enemies the likes of Kerry and many in the Democratic party, the terrorists can sleep easy at night knowing they have Democrats doing their offensive work for them.

Hey "Master of Reality": Were your parents Carter Administration officials, or are you a transplanted Canadian? Your comments sound exactly like someone who was brought up in an environment where this country's policies and way of life were held in scorn in favor of other, "progressive" ideas. When the election results are posted and the GOP has retained its majority in both houses of Congress-maybe then you'll return to Canada....wait, they've also elected a Conservative government. Looks like you'll just have to keep on enduring your "awful" life here in the luckiest country on Earth.

Extraordinary what Dems do in defense of the indefensible. I particularly love this that's been repeated here over and over again: if you didn't serve (as in Bush), you don't have any credibility. Oh, wait, I forgot: Bill Clinton didn't serve, but he had and has credibiliity? Nope, forgot again: the double standard is extraordinary.

Here's a clue, folks: you don't have to be in the military to use your brain and think and learn and come up with credible conclusions regarding foreign policy. To quote the DEMOCRATIC party in the 1990s, when trying to defend Bill Clinton's draft-dodging efforts (as opposed to Bush's actual service in the National Guard). Oh, let's go one more: the Dem Party's line in the 1990s that National Guard service was honorable and that no one who served in it should be slammed for serving in it during Vietnam. Guess they forgot their own standards when it comes to Mr. Bush.

Get a clue, folks, and start arguing things that make sense -- not double standards, not "you have to be a rabbit in order to understand anything relating to a rabbit" B.S.

If you only know people that went into the military because they had simply no other recourse in life, then you must know a lot of losers. Every single person I know that has joined the military has willingly left other careers to do what they percieved as morally the right thing to do (including myself, with TWO MASTER'S). Was Pat Tillman an idiot with no other options? Was Mayor Daley's son left with no career choices?

All you party-lovin', idiotic, far-wing (left and right), self-servin gas bags shut the he11 up and show some respect for those of us that have the courage to do the jobs that YOU don't.

>The Left hates the military and all members of it. Historical fact.

I will alert my brother. He's a liberal and a captain in the army. I don't think he was aware of this historical fact, even though he has a masters in american history.

Kerry was NOT saying that there aren't intelligent people in the armed forces. He was encouraging young people to do well in school so they have options.

Talk to any army recruiter - an honest one, and see who it is they target. It ain't the A students, I'll tell you that.

I love that quote! I gotta get it made into a t-shirt. Study hard kids.

Why is the trairor Kerry blaming Bush?Bush didn't make the stupid statement.

Hello everyone:

Stop thinking in black and white.

When Kerry says that those who don't do well in school end up in Iraq, he doesn't mean all soldiers are idiots. To interpret it as such makes no sense.

What he is saying is that if you don't do well in school, you have a higher chance being stuck in Iraq, particularly the front line, than if you had gotten straight A's.

The truth is that the "all volunteer" military has very attractive financial incentives. If you do well in school, you have other opportunities to choose from to make a decent living. If you don't do well, your choices are fewer, and thus the military becomes an attractive chance for education as well as financial income.

Yes, there are many in the military that are brilliant, in fact, some are from top universities (they got good grades to get in), where they honorably served as part of the ROTC program, and are now are leading the troops in Iraq and other wars. For every leader on the battlefield, there are soldiers. Some are fortunate to have good academics, the majority less fortune.

The majority of soldiers on the front line had less opportunity to go to universities and thus find other financial options such as joining the military.

Good that this guy is NOT in the white house, it would have been part 2 of the current horror movie going on right now. HE IS A TOTAL IDIOT!

These comment boards would be a lot more productive if people didn't use terms like these:

Left Wing Kool Aid
Genius of a Cowboy President
Right Wing Nut Jobs
President Lone Ranger
Kommorade Kerry
Emperor Pelosi
Fuhrer Reid
Dunce Brain
idiot liberal hacks

Using them only encourages people to be closed-minded. Try to remember that those with whom you disagree are still people. They might be more willing to listen to your side if you treat them and their beliefs respectfully.

Kerry's just doing what he's been doing for the last 35 years: disparaging everyone who wears a uniform for the US military.

Why is anyone surprised?

And why don't you Kerry apologists look-up the number of people in the military with at least a high school degree versus the civilian population. You'll finally see why the rest of us think you are such elitist snobs who thrive on emotion over intellect and fact.

Kerry's timing may be bad but the meaning behind his words is true. The American military - primarily staffed by non-blue blood, ivy school personnel - has been used for imperialist purposes by wealthy individuals and corporations for the past fifty years. An enormous amount of wealth (Yes, the Bush family slots nicely in here as does Cheney) has been built at the cost of hundreds of thousands of young Americans' lives, many of whom had few other options. It may be true that today's military is better educated but its still being used for the same purposes. A security force for commercial US interests masquerading as national security. Riddle me this - if Bush had two sons - not daughters - and they were to serve year long tours in Irag - not some Air Reserve outfit in New England - would Bush still being waxing so John Wayne?

Why do Republicans always refer to "Liberals" as "stuck-up snobs"? Because they're literate? I'm just puzzled, because if anyone has had a "stuck-up snob" background, it's George Bush! Come on; do you think he got into Harvard business school because of his excellent academic achievement? Do you think he managed to slither away from serving in Viet Nam because he came from a blue-collar family? Puh-leez. Just because Kerry can form a sentence with multi-syllabic words that Bush couldn't even pronounce does not make him an elitist snob. Let's remember what Bush said to his audience at the fund raiser he attended which was included in Michael Moore's film "Fahrenheit 911": "Some people call you the Elite; I call you my base!"

“You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework, you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get US stuck in Iraq.”

Kerry just left out the word US. It is that simple. He told a joke and left out one word and that is all that happened.

Kiss the presidency good-bye John Kerry...of course,Osama and his killers still suppoet you because you do their work for them.
Paulo

You know, I supported John Kerry in 2004, but ever since he lost the election, he's become more of a thorn in the side of Democrats than anything else. I wish he would just shut the hell up, step aside, and choose to actively support Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama, either of whom has the makings of a much stronger presidential candidate than Kerry could ever hope to be.

As for the remark about getting stuck in Iraq, I don't think it was a wisely chosen phrase on Kerry's part, but I think the Bush Administration is obviously trying to milk it for all it's worth. The fact that Kerry refuses to rephrase his statement isn't helping matters, either...his angry retaliation is just adding fuel to the fire.

Dems must wish that John Kerry's foot could somehow be permanently implanted in his mouth! What a disaster!!!

To think that a person of his questionable character and obvious disdain for the average soldier was almost the Commander in Chief!

Trick or Treat, you just lost your shot at a congressional majority.

Here hold mah Tom Collins while I jump this shark!

With people like Kerry around, you have to thank God for Obama. And a lot of you need to stop defending stupidity, no matter which side of the fence you're standing on.

Ladies and Gentlemen: America's success in WWII and other previous conflicts was due in large part to depositing politics 'at the waters edge' and working together in a UNITED fashion. We are in a war with weapons of unprecedented lethality. We cannot put the proverbial genie back into the bottle. We also cannot negotiate a settlement with those so intent on unrelentingly killing as many of us as possible in order to serve their fundamentalist cause. Failure is really not an option. So let us work TOGETHER to accomplish the task at hand. Let's adjust our view of the situation as Americans instead of Republicans and Democrats.

Oops!!!
My apologies...
It was Hillary Clinton who used the "best and brightest" remark first... Emperor Pelosi was just quoting her...

Is there a longer version of this? He indeed could be referring to GW but clipping it to this makes him sound insensitive! I'm not swayed by sound bytes, I ACTUALLY THINK FOLKS!!!! I encourage everyone else to think too...what a scary world that would be ;-)

Oh, come on! Dubya is obviously THE student who didn't apply himself in school and wound up stuck in Iraq! Anyone who doesn't see that is willfully blinding themselves.

I was willing to believe that Kerry was indeed speaking about young people getting "stuck" in the military. (That actually does happen, you know!) But then I listened to the Kerry sound bite again, and that interpretation just doesn't fly.

It's Snow's job and Limbaugh's bread and butter to do Rove's bidding by throwing up whatever they can to distract voters from the reality of a miserable policy that rewards Bush and Cheney's chicken-hawk cronies with BILLIONS of no-bid contract dollars, and our troops with thousands of body bags.

It's the GOP House and Senate that lets them get away with it.

And it's our responsiblity to keep our eyes open.

Bush & co. made a mess in Iraq, sent thousands of our troops to their deaths and tens of thousands to be crippled for life, killed hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis, and ruined the reputation of the United States. Vote for more of that if that's what you want. - Or vote for candidates who are willing to point out that the Emperor really is naked and needs to change his ways.

Any voter who switches their votes from Democrat to Republican because of this nonsense is dumber than Bush and Kerry combined. I'd like to think the electorate will base their choice this November on the Republican party's disasterous record; a failed misguided war in Iraq begun to enrich buddies of the Bush administration, a botched response to a predicted hurricane, and a drunken-sailor spending problem for starters.

If the electorate is swayed by a tone-deaf comment from one huge failure of a candidate, I'm running across the northern border and never looking back.

What a bunch of Liars. Kerry makes a joke about Bush and they twist his words and claim hes a troop basher. the president and his men are the worst sorts of liars and this youtube clip is edited to back them up. Wheres the whole scene? And put up Kerrys response! He slaughters the liars and calls them out for it!

It’s obvious Kerry is referring to President Dunce and the equally IQ-lacking puppeteers who manipulate George W. Zoolander’s stings - the profiteers and proselytizers who got us into this quagmire of a war - not the poor soldiers who are paying the ultimate price for this outrageous fabrication.

McCain has demanded that Kerry apologize. I hope all you Kerry apologists try and discredit McCain's credentials when it comes to supporting our troops. Go ahead and try it.

"Senator Kerry owes an apology to the many thousands of Americans serving in Iraq, who answered their country's call because they are patriots and not because of any deficiencies in their education. Americans from all backgrounds, well off and less fortunate, with high school diplomas and graduate degrees, take seriously their duty to our country, and risk their lives today to defend the rest of us in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere. They all deserve our respect and deepest gratitude for their service. The suggestion that only the least educated Americans would agree to serve in the military and fight in Iraq, is an insult to every soldier serving in combat, and should deeply offend any American with an ounce of appreciation for what they suffer and risk so that the rest of us can sleep more comfortably at night. Without them, we wouldn't live in a country where people securely possess all their God-given rights, including the right to express insensitive, ill-considered and uninformed remarks."

Give 'im (heck) McCain!

Here's Frist demanding an apology as well. Awesome comment about the vitriol Kerry's been spewing since putting his foot in his mouth.

"Senator Kerry clearly owes an apology to our soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines serving in Iraq. But Mr. Kerry has refused to do so. Instead, he’s claiming that Republicans are “desperately distorting” his comments. Watch the video yourself … it is perfectly clear what Mr. Kerry said … what’s unclear is whether Mr. Kerry ever means what he says. Perhaps he was against his comments before he actually made them.

And Senator Kerry is falsely claiming that Republicans “love to attack those who did [serve in war].” The truth is that Senator Kerry served honorably in Vietnam over 35 years ago, but he’s not immune from criticism today. Republicans aren’t “questioning his patriotism,” but we are calling him on his slur of our troops in the field."

Yes, Kerry is right. The Republican strategy is simply to repeat what the Democrats say, and make sure people know about it. If the Republicans didn't push the issue, ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN-Jazeera, etc. would not have made an issue of this asinine statement, and no one would know the truth about it.

Look, everybody knows by now that Kerry is a fraud: his political career started fraudulently (VVAW, Winter Soldier Investigation, Senate testimony), his recollections of his service in Vietnam are fraudulent ("Christmas in Cambodia", for example, which even his own campaign admitted wasn't true; the secret incursions into Cambodia, which even his crew denied; the "medals over the wall"; the CIA "lucky cap", etc.), and when his military records finally came out (well AFTER the 2004 election), they contained his scholastic records, which showed he had lower college grades than George Bush as well as lower intelligence-test scores. When confronted with that fact by Tim Russert (HARDLY a GOP flack), Kerry said "I must have been drunk the night before the test". Very classy, no?

JFK has demonstrated repeatedly that he has no business calling ANYONE dumb (except possibly Rosie O'Donnell). I guess he believes he is being "macho". His approach is just like Clinton's when Chris Wallace asked him a perfectly valid question -- just throw a hissy fit and pretend "I'm alright, the world is all wrong". Compare those reactions to the way Lynne Cheney handled Wolf Blitzer when he did indeed "set her up" by fraudulently inviting her on to discuss her children's book and then going off on a tangent about political issues, which she handled magnificiently and made Blitzer make a fool of himself.

Kerry is just another whining, cry-baby loser, and good riddance to him.

Well, I was mistaken. I went to Snow's press conference transcript where a reporter initiated Snow's response by saying:

Q If I could follow up, on the campaign trail, Senator Kerry was in Los Angeles and speaking to some students, saying if they were able to navigate the education system, they could get comfortable jobs, but "if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq." Can you react to that?

So, I took the reporter's word that Kerry was speaking to students' ability to access educational opportunities.

But guess what? The reporter did not give the correct context for Kerry's remarks and was probably deliberately setting up Snow's response.

The truth? Here iit is:

The senator, who was campaigning for the Democratic gubernatorial candidate, Phil Angelides, opened with several one-liners, joking at one point that President Bush had lived in Texas but now “lives in a state of denial.”

Then, Mr. Kerry said: “You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq.”

Clearly Kerry was referring to Bush and crew, who didn't work hard or do their homework and so are stuck in Iraq.
.

Finally the truth is out there........even the stupid, loser, soldiers now know what Kerry and his liberal friends really think of them. At last, honesty!

No one should be surprised by Kerry's statement, he simply articulated exactly what he and his liberal friends feel. Let's face it - Hanoi Kerry is beneath contempt and those of us connected to the military have known this for a very long time!

God bless our guys and gals in Iraq, and all over the world.

Wasn't Kerry referring to Bush as the idiot, not the troops in Iraq? Invading and occupying Iraq was the biggest blunder in American history, so calling Bush an idiot for getting us stuck in Iraq is just stating the obvious.

C'mon, whose gonna take somebody who looks like the Wicked Witch of the East seriously? I don't even think his own mother likes him.

Oh GOD why won't he (Kerry) just go AWAY and write another book or make a movie like Al did. How'd the Dems find the only candidate dumber the GWB? Bad enough we're stuck with GWB and crew another two years, now JK has given Rove & Co. just the ammo they need to maybe keep Congress. Proves once again how the Dems snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Wingnuts,one stupid comment by John Kerry is not going to change your fortunes for this election,much to the dismay of Paulo,and littleJohnny/JD "Tammy".

The GOP has been blundering,and pillaging for six years now,and they will be fired next week.

Bashing John Kerry is not going to keep the GOP swiftboat from sinking,the American public fell for that trick in 2004.
"We won't be fooled again"

Nov.7,2006 - GOP Funeral - please wear your best black clothing

It's really sad seeing anyone trying to defend Kerry on this one. Run away as far as you can.

No one HAS to enter the military in the US any more; it is all voluntary. To make such degrading remarks is not only wrong, it's unbelievably stupid. We are all lucky that Kerry lost in 2004; who would want a president that thinks so little before speaking. To state the obvious, he has no one to blame but himself. Failing to immediately apologize is compounding the problem, but it fits his pattern.

And I thought academic losers became President.

John Kerry has answered the call to duty again. I guess the Democrats are just mad at themselves for nominating someone that could not beat someone as dumb as Bush.
Lucky America.

Kerry was the lesser of two evils in 2004 but seems determined to ketchup.

Perhaps what Kerry was refering to is our president who by the way did poorly academically and now has gotten us into this never ending war in Iraq, Don't be so quick to gloat until the statement has been totally digested.

Tony, you posted a lot of verifiable statistics, some true and some misleading though not false, but then you said this:

"Thanks to President Bush he has kept his promise of naming conservative judges to keep out the wack jobs that the Democrats keep putting in because they can't win elections, they can only steal them"

Now that's just laughable. Conan and I might remind you "In the year 2000..." -- who stopped the vote counting, who wanted to avoid finding out what the result of the people's vote was in Florida? Wasn't the Democrats. And it wasn't "wack jobs that the Democrats put in" that stopped it for good gave the election to Bush. What were they so afraid of, that the will of the people would actually be expressed?

There hasn't been a "Democrat wack job" on the Supreme Court for over 20 years, at minimum; the remaining so-called 'liberal' justices are fairly moderate by historical standards, it is Scalia and Thomas that are "wack jobs" by historical norms.

And quit grouping everyone on 'the left' as hating the military, you all sound like morons when you do that, as much as people who group all Republicans into the 'rip up the Constitution, take away your rights, Halliburton Uber Alles, neo-con' crowd. It's flatly false, there are plenty of Democrats and those of similar mind who serve, served, and died (Pat Tillman, anyone? Have you read anything about what he thought?). Many of us have the utmost respect for those who chose to serve, we just think the people who are directing their actions are utterly contemptable human beings for so callously tossing our men and women into Iraq seemingly without a plan and without ensuring that they were properly equipped. That's disgusting, and it's probably why more and more military people are starting to speak out against the Bush Administration -- they've shown they really don't support the troops at all. They wave the flag around and call Democrats terrorist supporters, but when it counts they don't step up to the plate to give our troops the best chance of surviving and winning.

I have to hand it to Karl Rove, how does he continue to pull out these October suprises? It looks like the deomorats are trying to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory once again.

I have to agree with Elanor. Frank James shows his clear right-wing bias with this "Swamp" propaganda. It's much more emotional and heartfelt than his reporting on Cheney's approval of torture. Of course, Cheney has made far more gaffes than Kerry, such as shooting a friend in the face and using expletives against a Senator on the floor of the Senate. The right-wing press (like the Chicago Tribune) downplays Cheney's criminal gaffes and jumps all over Kerry when he makes a mistake.

A linguist he's not. But while speaking to a group of students, any idiot can see that the point he's trying to make is to tell them to study and pay attention to their education.

Somewhere above in this thread it was said the you don't see "that many" "A" students in the military in Iraq & whether you like it or not that's a correct statement.

The beauty of this whole thing is his news conference today. Had he been as forcefull during his presidential campaign, he would probably be president today and we wouldn't have to put up with the fool we have today.

All of the credit for the fiasco that we have today goes to the Republicans. Remember, they control the Administration, the Congress and the Judiciary. Hopefully not for much longer.

What Kerry said is a hard truth that no one wants to hear. While the millitary has it's share of scholars, it is overwhelmingly made up of the sons and daughters of the 'have nots'. Those that can't claim to serve only to have connected people rescue them from real service. Many soldiers enlist in order to furhter their education because our priorities are so skewed that we make it almost impossible to afford a good education by any other means. So, while not dumb, those who don't get some sort of acedemic scholarship are left with few options and the millitary provides that, true enough. However, I feel that those who enlist are doing so on the notion that the politicians who wage warfare care enough about their lives that they would not be sent into combat needlessly. This is clearly not the case with this war. We are told that we must honor the 3000 that that died on 9/11 by having 3000 more of our men and women die? Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of civilians who have died there. How much is enough? Do we really think that any of those that died are happy that their deaths have spawned an even more obscene number of casualties. I think not. Bush claims to care about the freedom of the Iraqi people and that the terrorist were cold-blooded murderers. I wonder what an Iraqi mother or father who has lost their son or daughter in this conflict think about Bush. Who's a murderer, and who is a president with the liscence to kill.

Served...and retired..when I was recalled to active duty, I was only a disertation away from a Phd..spent many of my years at very high levels of political planning and analysis...I can safely say I'm brighter than John Kerry...and more atuned to real world issues than most of his Democratic colleagues. This party bickering and loyalty above all will most likely be the downfall of America...unfortunately most of our citizens line up behind one or the other and fail to look beyond the political smog to see the real threats we face.

God Bless those troops...every single one of them..and God Bless the families of those who have fallen.

When did John Kerry speak for everyone? Although most of my political opinions would fall on the left of the political spectrum, I have no interest in defending this guy. He's an irrelevant joke.

Why should I want to defend this stupid statement? I am neither his constituent nor his ideological twin. He is merely a politician that has virtually no connection to me whatsoever.

Still, I wonder why do so many here feel the need to clump anyone who has anything other than a conservative belief into this monolithic group who are represented by a singular being (in this case, Kerry)?

Anyone who is not caught up in the sport that politics has become should understand that having a party win elections should come secondary to electing solid, intelligent representatives, be they Democrat or Republican. Regardless of party, we should criticize those that deserve the criticism at the moment they earn that critique. I have no problem criticizing Kerry for a stupid statement; I also have no problem criticizing the President for a stupid decision to go to war. Those of you (on BOTH sides) who spend more time using "liberal" and "neocon" as pejorative terms and try to find newer and cuter ways to bash the other party than actually discussing issues should be ashamed of yourselves. YOU are the problem.

Politics will only improve when people get over blind party affiliation and actually discuss things that matter to the health of the nation. Sadly, based in no small part on what I've read from both sides of the aisle in this discussion, it seems as if we have gone to a place from which we cannot return.

Did he mean that if you do poorly in school, like George Bush, your administration will get stuck in Iraq; or you will - like a soldier - get stuck in Iraq.

Please John, run again in 2008 :)

Reading through the comments here amazes me, and I see it as reflective of how our political system works and how people vote. It's unsettling.

OK, so here's what I see:

Camp 1: There are the majority of us who expressed sort of moderate opinions based on what the article that was just browsed through. I'm betting these are the normal Americans who do at least pay some attention, but may or may not vote. Registered, but maybe not likely to vote.

Camp 2: There is a minority of people who expressed stronger opinions on this matter, and I imagine these are the really, really "likely voters."

Then, there are subgroups:

Camp 2a: Republicans or conservatives, who just went for the sound byte in how it was presented by the spinsters, and find this to reaffirm what "the liberals" think and how they're just so out of touch with everything. Of course, they did nothing to research context and understand what he was actually saying, because with so many things, understanding things threatens to shake the delusion of always being right.

Camp 2b: Democrats or liberals who thoughtfully looked at context and actually discussed what the statement was about, the situation we have in America today, and how this is another example of something that was not completely unreasonable has been turned, out-of-context, into what people think is a smoking gun despite its fiction.

Without me chiming in specifically on this subject, let me just place myself in 2b. What the right does these days has gotten so bad, I'm amazed they're not just splicing together words people say into really horrible things and presenting it as undeniable proof the left wants to watch terrorists kill Americans and sell children to pedophile cannibal gypsies while mandating pornography in church. Of course, by the time you speak up to explain how ridiculous their accusations are, they put their fingers in their ears and yell "LA LA LA LA LA" so they can't hear you, because as far as they're concerned--the book is already closed on that issue and all the facts have been "learned."

Bachelors Degree - University of Pittsburgh
Masters Degree - Carnegie Mellon University
11 Years Army Active & Reserves
6 Years Air Force

There are many of us "uneducated" dolts proudly serving in the United States military in spite of Swiftboat Johnny and Draft-dodging Willie.

I voted for Senator Kerry and I'd do it again. He courageously served our country and he courageously points out the educational deficiencies of our military. Sen. Kerry knew exactly what he was saying in Pasadena and I and all other patriotic Democrats should applaud him for it.

Nice try John D. The left are the ones who love our soldiers. We don't start wars based on lies, and arrogance. Kerry is a true American hero, who had the courage to ask questions of our governament when conservatievs like Goldwater and Nixon turned their backs on our troops in viet nam.

Before any right wing nuts want to start making accusations, lets look at GW, who was safely getting wasted with his drinking buddies in the National Guard thanks to Daddy, while Kerry was courageously fighting in the jungles.

Look, I don't agree with what he said. But the fact is that some high school students can't pay for college and they will join the military specifically for that benefit. I'm sure that is what he meant, some people do join the military because they have no where else to go.

Regardless of what Kerry said, as in words,
it's Bush's actions that are doing the real harm.
I don't particularly trust Kerry or believe much that a professional politician has to say but when it comes to service to country, I can't understand how anyone can listen to a bunch who pulled every available (maybe illegal) string to avoid having to do so. Oh sure, now Bush wants to be the President but he didn't care enough to be an actual soldier when called on. Neither did Cheney, Rummy etc. I can't respect that and never will. My father didn't run and neither did I.

And this BS I'm reading that all liberals are elitist, (what the hell is that anyway) snobs and hate the military is just nonsensical babble. If you can't really form an argument, or don't actually know what you're talking about then just start calling names and lump everyone who leans Democratic into one bunch. If I tend to vote democratic it's because of my own beliefs and values. Because of what I think is right, fair, good for the country and it's people. Not because I hate the military and America. But go ahead and call my dad and myself America hating elitists. Some of us seem to have chosen a form of social civil war and imagine everyone who thinks differently is the enemy.

Especially you, JohnD and the potter

has anything improved in the last 6 years?

didn't think so.

Hey Bud, you ever been in the military? I doubt it. This comes from an "A" student, in fact one who's scores put him the the top 1% and I served a career in the military. I served with a lot of smart people just as meany ads I do now in the civilian world. In short, Bud, I will match my intellect and most of my fellow soldiers with yours any day.

Chris, BA, MBA, DBA (ABD)

If what John Kerry said is true, then he just criticized himself. Was he an uneducated doofus whose only option was to serve in the military?

The liberals really amuse me. Quick to accuse the President for being stupid, but even quicker to defend one of their own.

Jim

I've got a freak just like John Kerry working for me. He hates the president, republicans, and anyone else that disagrees with his warped opinions of America. I torture him without mercy. If he wants Friday off, he gets Monday. If he asks for a raise, I cut his hours. He cleans toilets, parking lots, and does every dirty job I can think of. He doesn't get the fact that Florida isn't New York, but he's learning.

Hey Bud, you ever been in the military? I doubt it. This comes from an "A" student, in fact one who's scores put him the the top 1% and I served a career in the military. I served with a lot of smart people just as meany ads I do now in the civilian world. In short, Bud, I will match my intellect and most of my fellow soldiers with yours any day.

Chris, BA, MBA, DBA (ABD)

To those of you who have written that you have family or friends in Iraq if you want to truly help them then support those who are trying to get them out of harms way. What Kerry said or didn't say won't result in your friend or loved one dying. We aren't going to "win" in Iraq thousands more dying won't change that. Forget neo cons forget liberals
and vote for the person who is most opposed to the war. Don't let your patriotism stop you from putting the life of you friend or loved one first. There are over 57,000 names on black slab in Washington D.C. ask yourself "for what" ???

"Perhaps what Kerry was refering to is our president who by the way did poorly academically and now has gotten us into this never ending war in Iraq, Don't be so quick to gloat until the statement has been totally digested"

Actually, at Yale Bush got better grades than the dim bulb Kerry. Look it up....

John Kerry needs to get a brain !!! He talks about the uneducated military, how can he tell ... he's so stupid !!!!

Our men and women in the service are great and deserve our total respect and support. WOW, how could he say that about them ..... sad.

Hey T.P., you forgot about "National Guard, but use my father's influence to make sure I stay out of combat GW".

Why does Kerry get a pass on being stupid? All of you liberals don't give anyone else a break. Just admit it, Kerry wasn't talking about Bush. And even if he was, the comment wasn't specific enough not to cause the current storm.

Jeff

Just watch the Republican spin machine go into full whirl on this one!!! They finally got what they think is a piece of raw meat and they are not going to let it go because they know they don't have many meals to choose from in this election.

Although he was talking specifically about GWB ( watch the rest of the speech and it's very apparent) Kerry once again found a way to open his mouth and swallow his foot again. The Dems have to stay focused on the issues, Iraq, the economy, the MANY scandals on the Repub. side and keep preaching the need for change because God knows this country cant take much more of stay the course!! How many more of our soldiers will die if we DON'T change course SOON?!!!!

John Kerry spoke the truth! I joined the Army as a farm laborer and finished up my GI Bill with an MA in math from UCLA, picking up a Phi Beta Kappa key along the way. I then spent 40 years helping to design airplanes that do not fall out of the sky. My question is: What's WRONG with that?

While I do not care for John Kerry the point is they have lowered the education standard to get into the service. They have lowered the standards below levels of the draft. So in that point he is right you might not like it but it is true.

Craig -

Not everyone gets saved by their rich relatives. Some people (Bill Clinton) just go to college and then protest the war at the same time.

Now, you can call it what you want, but that sounds like draft dodging to me. And remember, Clinton was elected president.

Jeff

As usual, the rightwing cowards on this board display all the flaws that make them so utterly guileless: lies, duplicity, cowardess, sloganeering, general dummytude.

Kerry's statement seems to be ambiguous -- two plausible meanings, at least in isolation: 1) making fun of George the Coward; 2) making fun of individual service people. As Jethro aptly pointed out upthread, it's stuff like this that impels politicians' handlers to give them scripts -- there's just too much risk of statements being construed in the wrong way, particularly when taken out of context.

But those comments only apply in isolation, not in the context of what we know. The right wing cowards on this Board cannot and do not offer even a plausible explanation of why Kerry would have made such a statement. After all, we know that unlike the listed cowards, Kerry actually volunteered to serve in combat. Beyond that, what possible gain could he have expected by attacking the troops? In the absence of such an explanation, no honest person would ascribe such a bizarre motive to Kerry.

OTOH, we know that Kerry would have very good reason to attack Bush. As noted, Bush is unusually dumb for someone of his educational background and upbringing. So it's plausible to expect that Kerry just made a lame (and ambiguous) effort to attack Bush. This explanation does not fit into the cowardly (and inane) worldview espoused by simpletons such Bill, Bruce, and John D[umb as a post]. So they simply disregard common sense (for the umpteenth time today) and spew their rightwing hate speech.

The same goes for all you military families that are posting on this thread with hyperbolic outrage. Your ire is misdirected. Kerry would have absolutely nothing to gain by dissing the troops. So ask yourself why he would do that.

Ironically, you have numerous valid reasons to be outraged by our government's numerous failings (e.g., W sending them into war without a plan for getting out). The idiotic notion that Kerry "hates" the military should be very near the bottom of your list of gripes (well below, say, W failing to supply them with adequate body armor).

Peace

Kerry once again put his foot in his mouth.

The Republicans once again jumped all over it.

Just remember: It's the Republicans who are killing all the kids.

Kerry is way off the mark on this. I live outside Washington in Virginia and have many friends whose children have volunteered to join the military and fight in Iraq and Afghanistan. These are children who could go to college, and some already were but chose to leave to join the Military. They did it because they love this country and want to serve. My problems with the war in Iraq is that is has been a waste of these fine men and woman's bravery, talent, intelligence, patriotism and lives. Kerry again has show he is an elitist snob. While I salute his service to our country during Vietnam when so many like him did not go, his actions after the war have shown him to be the elitist pig he is.

James Webb had better denounce Kerry's comments as he has denounced what Kerry did after the war. If he doesn't it may cost him my vote.

Semper Fidelis

Will

Thank you to all those that are brave enough to serve in the United States Military!

This thanks does not extend to Dick Cheney who twice deferred, or Karl Rove, or Paul Wolfowitz - all strongly in favor of the war.

Do those of you on the right still support this war? Do you get up each day and think this is a great thing we've done? Do you think the lives we've lost, and are still losing, are worth the gains? Do you think the violence in Iraq is good for future business? Is it the BEST we can do for the future of America?

I want our troops to come home! Is there any greater support for the troops than to work to get them home?

If you love America and those that are brave enough to serve in our military, will you give up your politics to do what's best - not what your party says?

Anyone here have clear numbers on what the educational status of those who have died in Iraq? We may have a more educated military, but what is the educational status of those on the front line. I know many educated military that have steered away from dangerous duty. SEE the President.

Serving in the military, and getting sent to the front line in Iraq are not necessarily the same deal. That may have been (idiot) Kerry's point. But the real issue is all lost on the politics, and that makes sense. I mean really... isn't that the REAL reason for this war - POLITICS.

Support the troops, end the war in Iraq.

Interesting news from the Roskam campaign from their event With Sen. McCain yesterday:

Peter was joined on stage by veterans from past wars including WWII, Viet Nam, the Korean War, Desert Storm and the current war, Operation Iraqi Freedom.
In particular, three veterans that served with our opponent, Tammy Duckworth, joined Senator McCain in support of Peter's campaign for Congress.
One of those veterans is Joe Lemens of the 106th Aviation Battalion in the Illinois National Guard. Joe has known Tammy Duckworth for 15 years and took part in her rescue mission. Joe actually spent $1,500 of his own money towards the rehab of her home. However, Joe supports Peter.
"There is only one person running for Congress in this district that I would support, that supports the veterans, and the active military - and that is Peter Roskam"

Using the deaths of our brave men and women in Iraq as a reason for cutting and running is absurd. Every generation must pay a price for freedom, for FREEDOM DOES NOT COME FREE!!! If there was real concern for the number of deaths of young people, then the same politicians decrying the war would decry the amount of binge drinking which has taken more than 4500 lives of college men and women since the war broke out in 2003. Guess we value some lives over other
lives--for political partisan politics.

You know, as I read it, it certainly does sound like he intended to single out George. Unfortunately he didn't. His mistake, and he (and we) will pay for it by way of the Repubs big mouthed twisting and spinning. On the other hand, even if he didn't mean to single out Dubya he's probably right to a certain degree. A lot of the folks fighting this ludicrous war coulda, shoulda said "No, I don't think so. I won't, it's wrong". But no, they followed along like lambs to the slaughter instead of standing up for their beliefs and taking the hit for it. Can you imagine if people actually did this; what a different situation this all might be? Kerry's right, but he needs to learn to keep his brain engaged while he's opening his mouth to utter forth

Those of you who are familiar with our service academies will realize that these men and women are the absolute BEST people coming out of our high schools. Every one of them gets the minimum equivalent of a minor in engineering and extensive leadership training. They also get bounced out when they screw up. In my opinion, these young people are head and shoulders above the graduates of Harvard, Yale, Princeton and every other blue blood institution with their minimum grades of B.

These are the future leaders of the armed forces and they are NOT society's leftovers as that idiot Kerry says.

I believe George Bush actually had a higher gradepoint average than Kerry in college, and has a higher IQ as well.

Alec Chang for president!

I was sent to Vietnam by a democrat named Lyndon Johnson. We were never allowed to win the war, the democrats that controlled our government at the time didn't have the stomach for it. When it finally ended , 59,000 Americans were dead. I'm glad the democrats are for peace, because they sure as hades aren't military strategists.

Those aren't John Kerry words, it's his wife words.

"You love the constitution but support those who hate the military men and women that preserve it. That's why you and your kind are held in contempt.

Posted by: Stan | Oct 31, 2006 2:02:48 PM"

"You and your kind". Great. Mind-reader much?

1) You know nothing about me, or anyone else posting here.
2) The war in Iraq has nothing to do with defending either the Constitution or our country. Not. One. Thing.
3) A President who supports the U.S. military would not disrespect the people who serve in it by sending them to conduct an illegal war against a country that had done ours no harm, and then refuse to give them the resources to win that war.

to Tony

there is a camp THREE !!!!!!!

I may be the only one in that camp but I seriously doubt it -- if I am -- so be it

camp THREE is nonpartisan people who believe in what our country stands for and therefore are concerned about the lesser of evil of choices between two parties that are BOTH run mostly (but neither entirely) by extremists and crooks and incompetents

while we are struggling to make a conscientious and informed decision -- we shun the argument entirely of "vote for us cause the other guys suck"

we know the best policies clearly lie in between the two extremes but there's no third party or middle ground of significance that voting for would not simply waste a vote

then an idiot says something so profoundly demeaning to everything important about our country that it could only be said by an elitist oligarch and then (as usual) he blames the other party

now his party has a chance to criticize what he said or defend him -- if they defend him , they make it all too clear that all of this political jockeying has more importance to them than policy and honor

no, I will not change my vote over what Kerry said, but since I had not made up my mind, any failure of his party to apologize completely for what he said will indeed help me make up my mind

tom --- little t -- the MD -- the registered independent -- and veteran USAF -- and member of camp THREE

All the emotion aside, what is the % of the armed forces in total (not only air force or marines) that has a college diploma or higher education?

Also, does the military track primary motivation for joining (i.e., to serve my country, to earn a steady income, to get college $ for college)?

Although I don't appreciate Kerry's tone, I suspect he's factually correct.

Good to see an article on this tenuous nonsense by the lib' lovin' Trib, but not a word concerning the fact that George Allen's staff seems to have committed felonious assault on someone simply asking questions.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Bush, Cheney, Rove, Rumsfeld et. al. can attack as many democrats as they want for as many perceived faults as they can find.

It won't change the fact that those men continue to put their own ego and agenda ahead of the men and women in our military, as well as those of innocent Iraqi lives.

Too bad the Republican Cabal is not as effective with Al Qaeda as it is in attacking the democrats.

Ironic that Pres Bush spends his time stumping for policitians while our soldiers die. If this is truly a war on terror, then focus on the war and not power.

It's so good to see a real news story in the media instead of news about the increasing American deaths in Iraq. Thanks for focussing on something that matters.

I am a democrat and a U.S. Citizen and Kerry's opinions about the service and the war don't speak for me any more than George Bush's opinions do. What happened here was he thought before he spoke. How many of us have been quilty of that in our lifetime? And whereas there has been a big shift since 9/11 I know in my personal history growing up in Flint, MI, that it was usually the kids who had no other option that ended up in the military. It was very rare to see one of the "rich" kids from the good schools head off for the service after getting their diploma. Rather it was the children of the shop workers and those from less fortunate families that found themselves at the recruiters office when their parents couldn't come up with money for an education. I don't think Kerry is an idiot, I think maybe what he is is someone still operating undering the idea that the service is a refuge for those with nowhere else to go. I can see in a time of war where one might wonder why anyone would chose to sign up and elect to put themselves in harms way. I however don't think it is fair to characterize these people as any less intelligent than anyone who chose a different path. So I guess I am not taking any side on this one, just saying that the man is human and made a mistake.

Catherine,
I took Kerry's comment to refer to GW, but the problem is that he didn't contextualize them. He shouldn't have said anything like this at all. It's like he was on something. You'd have to be - or be George Bush to say this.

George Watson

Please, I am begging the Democratic party to leave Mr. Kerry alone and let him speak on their behalf at every posible opportunity. I was a Republican but Kerry has made me switch based on his insightful comments.

Catherine,
I took Kerry's comment to refer to GW, but the problem is that he didn't contextualize it. He shouldn't have said anything like this at all. It's like he was on something. You'd have to be - or be George Bush to say this.

George Watson

His first response is to attack those who have not served stating they have no right to question his statement not saying anything about a misstatement. Then when Veterans groups start calling for an apology he says he will apoligize to no one and comes out with a "I misquoted myself" defense. No wonder the president had better grades then he did at Yale....

Please, I am begging the Democratic party to leave Mr. Kerry alone and let him speak on their behalf at every posible opportunity. I was a Republican but Kerry has made me switch based on his insightful comments.

Has anyone considered that perhaps the ones “stuck in Iraq” are those who joined the military not out of patriotism or sense of duty but because they had no other choice (i.e. poor grades, criminal record, unemployment, etc.)?

I think one could argue that those who joined even after having other options do not consider themselves “stuck in Iraq”.

eram,
It would also be helpful to know the percentage of soldiers on the front lines, at the most risk that have educations above high school level.

All this kurfluffle over a little misstatement? Good grief, compare it to Bush's constant butchering of the English language and there is just no comparison to be made. Kerry has clarified his statement, let's move on to more important topics.

Kerry was right! But the Republicians are 'spin' masters and will refuse to debate!!

By any chance, will there be a John Kerry cartoon contest going on soon? The response to this is very similar to one I heard earlier this summer.

Thank God there are those out there to watchdog this for me and stand up for my right to protect marriage and Jesus, while sending more innocent young men and women off to war

Of course Kerry meant George W. Bush - who else? He reminded me of what George said in 2000: "And I see Bill Buckley's here tonight, a fellow Yale man. We go way back, and have a lot in common. Bill wrote a book at Yale. I read one. He founded the Conservative party. I started a few parties myself. Bill won every debate he ever had-and, well, I know how that feels."

The point was, and is, that George thought it was a big joke that he wasted all the advantages he was given. He insulted the 'elites' who actually paid attention in school and out. He refused to listen to their advice on Iraq (and all other issues). He preferred to act "from his gut". So now George has gotten all of us stuck in Iraq. That couldn't be more crystal clear to me.

I take personal exception to Kerry's ridiculous comments, and his follow up retort published from his office that never actually takes responsibility for his words. I graduated with a Bachelor's degree in Computer Engineering with a B+ GPA, and with the world full of promise before me, chose to join the Infantry. Not because I had a hard on to kill, but because I believed in giving something back to a country which had given me so much. Do you have any idea on who were in the trenches with me, living out hell? They were not brainless bottom feeders or lowlife criminals. My brothers have families, educations, jobs, and opportunities that they also chose to give up so that others at home may continue to enjoy those freedoms and peace. This ill conceived liberal BS from Kerry is just more proof in the arrogance and just how out of touch these "left winged nut jobs" can be.

Kerry was taken out of context. The video excerpt above should show the whole speech.

The Republicans cannot use a Kerry speech to hide the truth that the administration is failing in Iraq. The evidence is overwhelming, and all Americans know deep down, that the situation is dire in Baghdad. A strategic change of course is needed in the Mideast.

Brave men and women are dying in vain. It's painful to admit, but we must face our shortcomings and do something different!

Well that settles it, I'm not voting for John Kerry this coming Tuesday!

Oh wait a minute...

I thought I was supposed to vote for the individuals on the ticket, not for a party. I thought I was supposed to listen to all the campaign rhetoric and make a logical decision based on the issues at hand. I thought the country was heading in the wrong direction, but now that I've heard Kerry, we must be going in the right direction!
I thought Republicans were dealing with quite a few scandals of late, but now that I've listened to Kerry I think I will ignore all of them.
I thought all the honorable dead soldiers in Iraq were making me doubt the wisdom of our current course, and the lack of direction coming from either party was disturbing, but now that I've heard Kerry I think I will just follow Bush because he is suddenly much wiser.

America, John Kerry is a bungler, therefore I think we should stay the course after all! After hearing Kerry speak I decided that all Dems are bunglers, because in America you are only allowed to vote for one party, not one candidate.
I think every Dem should now resign, and just hand the reigns over the Bushies, they never misspeak and they never said stay the course.

I think I have thought a lot about what this election means and John Kerry does not even register on my radar. Soldiers dying in Iraq still register. Deficits register. Veterans benefits register. My child’s college expenses register.

How John Kerry sounding dumb would make Dubya look bright is beyond me. If one comment, one week before an election, was enough to make me change my mind after the amount of time I have spent looking at the issues, then shame on me and shame on any American who lets any of these one-liners change their mind.

I'm not voting for Kerry. I am voting for Duckworth. I am not voting for Kerry, I am voting for Hastert (shock! two parties! How Un-American!)

If you do NOT like the direction this country is heading, vote. Bring a friend.
AND DONT VOTE FOR KERRY!

Politics & Elections Rule #76: Anything that looks made up and twisted in the last ten days of an election is made up and desperate. It usually serves as a negative distraction to the candidate it was intended to benefit.

I consider myself independent and I can tell you that this comes off to no benefit to Republicans on the surface in this last seven days of a campaign. It seems, well, sleazy and contrived.

To the Republicans who take offense to this, you shouldn't be offended. You should be offended by your puppetmasters. To the Democrats who take comfort my words, don't. The supposed "liberal media" may run with this tripe and do many good candidates in among some tight races.

Because this I is voting straight ticket D in 2006. This officially took my vote away from Kirk and to Dan Seals. He lays with those Rovian dogs at the White House, therefore he has the fleas.

It's time for a change, people. Don't let the charlatans and their puppets distract you. Anyway, the undecideds left the building a long time back.

Kerry says If you don’t study you get stuck in Iraq….the joke was suppose to be “if you don’t study you get us stuck in Iraq.

Talk about opportunities lost: White House, instead of demonstrating leadership by taking the comment and turning the joke on Kerry and the Dem’s. They’re trying to insist that Kerry was degrading the troops that serve and protect this country. Which in turn will hurt some of the brave men and women that have made sacrifices beyond what most of us will ever come close to doing. So in truth what their doing trying to do is turn a bad joke into an insult on those troops for political gain. What they miss is most people will see the comment for what it was and see the lack of leadership on Pennsylvania Ave.

The Dem’s and Kerry could easily come out with a statement expressing regret for miss speaking and apologizing for how the comment was delivered. Again all that would do is demonstrate leadership. They too could make a joke out of it with something like “I guess commend of the English language is not limited to the White House.”

Those of you who want to slam me for trying to make light of this, forget it, it was intended to be a joke and that is what it should be left as, no more or less a joke that went the astray. We have much bigger issues with these elections and our leaders continue to attempt to divert us from the real issues and by the reaction in Washington and this blog their succeeding. Unfortunately this is like my 11 and 12 year old children arguing. The sad part is we elected these people to run our country and we can not tell them to go to their rooms for a timeout! No we’re going to get a speech from the White House about how immoral the Dem’s are then we get talking heads for hours responding to this garbage. Thanks God the kids will be ring the door and I can have something to smile about. Stick a fork in me I’m done and you should be too.

I didn't realize Kerry was running for anything this year. What do his comments have to do with anything? Why are all the other Dems guilty of Kerry's remarks? Answer: they aren't. This election is about the failure of the republican party.

I think many of you are falling for it. Kerry said the truth, albeit said it poorly. MOST of our enlisted armed forces are not college educated, at least not until they leave the military with funds to go to college. Many of our officers are highly educated, and wonderful men & women. From the Air Force website (I added the capitalization):
- 49.2 percent of the OFFICERS have advanced or professional degrees

- 99.9 percent of the enlisted force have at least a high school education (This is higher than the regular US population)
-- 73.3 percent have SOME semester hours towards a college degree
-- 16.2 percent have an associate's degree or equivalent semester hours
-- 4.7 percent have a bachelor's degree
-- .7 percent have a master's degree
-- .01 percent have a professional or doctorate degree

If he was talking to high schoolers he would have been very wrong, but talking to those already able to attend and hopefully complete college he was within reality.

The air of desperation is thick. 99% of people are sick of this stuff by the last week of a campaign. Rove should not insult the American people's intelligence with this Hail Mary!

Funny thing is, no matter how hard they try to twist it, this election will not be a referendum on John Kerry. He's not the one who screwed things up in Iraq - that was George Bush.

This will be a non-issue by tomorrow unless you, the media and the people, let the right wing spin machine control the message. Iraq and the economy matter more.

Pure sad desperation.

Anyone, including Kerry himself, who would defend a statement like the one he made last night is a complete moron out of touch with reality.

Forget attacking Bush and the infamous "typical republican tricks". This is not about George Bush, or anything political really.

This is about a stupid comment made by a man in the piblic spotlight with a responsibility to be accountable for his words.

The statement alone reflects an incredibly poor decision, but the decision not to apologize and to continue to make this a political issue by blaming and attacking Bush and Republicans reflects the character of a man who refuses to be acountable for his actions, or in this case words.

I do not consider myself a Republican, but it is on this principal alone that I take comfort in the fact that I did not vote for him in '04.

Pointing out someone elses miscues as adefense of your own is a cowardly act, in my opinion, and I have lost all respect for a man I used to think had a decent head on his shoulders.

As do many other people, my best friend is an officer and a pilot in the Marine Corps with a Masters degree from an upper middle class family, and is 10 times the soldier John Kerry ever was.

John Kerry doesn't have, among many other things, the integrity to be a great soldier, no matter how highly decorated he was.

You can say what you want about Bush all the day long, I'd rather have him in office than this elitist, lying, rich SNOB any day!

Um, how does this have anything to do with whether you're going to vote Democrat or Republican? So Kerry said some things that people are pissed off about. So what?

Now Kerry says he was referring to Bush? And, this from a man who got lower university grades than did Bush? ROFLMAO

Kerry spoke insensitively about a plain truth. Don't believe it? Talk to military recruiters and ask why they recruit so heavily in public schools as opposed to private. Chicagoans, next time you're driving around a Chicao Public School, look for the Army recruiting center. They're not hard to find. Or talk to some kids who go to one; they're in your lunch room once a week.
Or ask me, I'm a product of the public schools. Anyone who's reading this with a doubtful eye, ask yourself this -- When was the last time you were in a CPS high school?

Morti -

Thanks for trying to stick up for the armed forces and those that serve their country with dignity and honor. I have pulled tours in Iraq twice now, and I have to say (despite my own master's degree) that the army does target recruitment in poor, often color-coded neighborhoods.

Don't believe it (or want to believe it)? Go find a recruitment center. I bet 75% of them are within a stone's throw of an urban high school with poor graduation rates and lots of blacks and mexicans.

I am proud of the men and women I've served with. Rich, poor, black, white, smart, stupid -- they are all good people who stepped up when they felt they had to, for whatever reason. But the military is disproportiantly full of people who would have a hard time finding employment elsewhere. Educated people from well-off families are rare -- and they make officer pretty quick. Hell, I did.

Have a high opinion of the men and women who serve their country. But don't gloss over the serious flaws in the system in the name of civic or national pride.

You're wrong, Morti. I know.

This war was started for all the wrong reasons. Only more of the same can keep it going. Please vote in accordance with change and peace.

Wow is this blown WAY out of proportion.

Kerry stuck his foot in his mouth again, no doubt, but as I was reading what he said I AUTOMATICALLY thought he was talking about the president - not the troops. (I'm independent, by the way) My reaction to the quote was "so?and?". It's so easy right now for a desperate party to distort what he said. I think it's pretty obvious that somebody who went Vietnam would not be slamming his fellow soldiers - no matter what your opinion of Kerry is. C'mon. Be reasonable.

Also, during the 2004 election I seem to recall a newspaper or two digging up academic files on the prez and Kerry and they were eerily similar - and not in a good way. People in glass houses...

T.B.
Peter Roskam is nothing more than a silverspoon,ambulance chasing punk,and a man who learned at the feet of the disgraced Tom Delay.

Peter Roskam has less integrity,and honor in his whole body,than Tammy Duckworth has in her pinky finger.

VOTE FOR TAMMY DUCKWORTH!!!!!

A vote for Peter Roscum,is a vote for more of the same corrupt crap that the Tom Delay led Republicans have been giving us Americans for the last 10 years,he is another Bush rubberstamper.

VOTE FOR TAMMY DUCKWORTH!!!!!!

Kerry's statement an october surprise? Give me a break! So someone finally pointed out the obvious, that the impoverished, disadvantaged, under-educated bear the brunt of the horror-show called Iraq. Do you think that Army recruiters make there living recruiting rich white kids from Duke. They find there "fungibles" in the slums, at the mall, at underfunded minority schools. And lets stop promoting this fairytale ending for Iraq. Bush and the neonuts, through inumerable lies and ongoing deceit, have thrust us into an unwinnable war. The very best we can hope for now in Iraq is an uneasy coexistance between a defacto independant Kurdistan, an Iran supported Shiite theocracy, and a pissed off and dangerous Sunni minority. Not what the neonuts had in mind. The worst case scenerio; full blown civil war and perhaps regional conflict. Not to mention the fertil breeding ground this would create for the droves of new Jihaddist that Bush's failed policies have created. Neary 3,000 U.S. deaths(so far), tens of thousands more maimed and crippled, hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's(mostly civilians)killed,maimed,displaced from their homes,a trillion dollar war with no end in sight. For what? Do you true believers really think that Kerry's "gaffe" is going to make people forget about the consequences of this administrations unparalleled blunders? Perhaps a few "right-wing nut jobs might be distracted, but the rest of us are wise to this fool's game.

Tommy, explain, exactly, to me how Karl Rove made John Kerry say those despicable things about our troops?

Remember John Kerry mocking President Bush's intelligence on the campaign trail until after the campaign we learn that Bush had much better grades in college than Kerry did. Remember folks, Bush, for all the talk of being a "dumb idiot" went very far, and finished, in college plus, the "dumb idiot" somehow became President of the United States.

Who are the real "dumb idiots?" I think they have all made it blatantly obvious! Thank you for standing up and showing us your true colors!

As Kerry himself has indicated, he was talking about George W Bush being the one who didn't study in school and then got stuck in Iraq.

Everyone should get their facts straight before jumping up on the soapbox. I mean George W Bush has said that he doesn't stop thinking about ways to harm the American people, but no one believes that what he actually thinks....

I really believe Mr Kerry is a stealth operative for the Republican Party. He says incredibly stupid offensive comments about the young men and women in out military who are willing to give the ultimate sacrifice for their country, their life. He also believes that they are under-educated and therefore that makes them too stupid to do anything but offer up their lives on the battlefield. In Mr. Kerry"s jaded view of the world if one is educated in an expensive elitest eastern school then your options are much brighter. You find a a very rich widow to marry and then work undercover for the Republicans by becoming the major story in the last week of a campaign season riddled with close races.. Keep the Republicans in Power Mr Kerry. You know the drill by now, do not apologize. so you can keep those hefty Republican tax cuts for you and your wife living off the Heintz fortune. Pass the catshup!!!!!

Eroz, that's quite a justification you've written. But tell me this, do you agree with Kerry that all those who end up in the military didn't work hard enough or study enough in high school? You do realize that's what he said, don't you? He wasn't quoting any statistics just saying something really, really small-minded and stupid.

Brian K., since you're psychic and can read John Kerry's mind and deduce what the "joke" was "supposed to be," then please tell me what I'm thinking right now. Scratch that, I'll do it for you. It's that you're a cog in the democratic campaign machine who will use any dissembling tactic to try and get Kerry out of the mess that he and his mouth got himself into. Faced with irrefutable video evidence of Kerry denigrating our troops you say he and his campaign friends should make this into a joke. Kerry's the only joke and if he's already lost votes for the dems.

p.s. Anyone can watch the full video (the video that doesn't once mention the name "Bush" for you dissemblers), it's available by searching for "John Kerry" at YouTube.

I cannot believe that people are thinking that someone who actually served in the military would disrespect the great men and women who have and are serving in the Armed Forces. Wake up people-he is speaking very clearly about the guy who led us into this mess in the first place-GWB. Lets not let this force people to take their eye off the prize...get our soldiers home safe and sound soon! We cannot and will not win in Iraq and in case anyone forgot, they were not involved in 9/11. It is time for the people to stand up and be counted. Get to the polls next week and vote these clowns out of office NOW!

Some people have made good points that its the issues that matter in the election. This is most certainly true, however, what many people dont realize is alot of people do actually vote one way or another because of a quote such as kerry's, and in his case, the result will be a negative one for the democrats. The main problem I see is that although many voters do ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT THE ISSUES, they are severely outnumbered by the ones who don't care, and these are the ones whom most politicians will be targeting. To me (and many other educated Americans), John Kerry just looks like a loser when he says this (or a Hero, if for some reason you think like that), and in reality, all he does is hurt himself. Unfortunately for the Dem's, his actions make the dim bulbs of our society start to think "so... do all democrats think like that... and if they do... do i really want them to lead me and decide my fate?". It is these idiots (screw political corectness) who are the primary targets of political ads. If you are misunderstanding what i am saying, i will tell you straight out, I AM NOT SAYING ALL DEMOCRATS ARE STUPID, i actually favor some of them over some of the more pitiful Republican candidates, But seriously, some of our "leaders" really need to learn when to keep their mouth shut, or else (like John Kerry) they WILL (I guarentee you) be portrayed by their opponents as "Anti-American" or "Racist Pig" or the tens of thousands of other nasty and vicious names that politicians throw at eachother. The main problem with politicians is that they sometimes act before they think and thus cause major problems for the party to which they supposedly represent. Alot of Democratic candidates are going to have to make a tough choice, Stand by their own and defend Kerry's ridiculous remarks therebye painting a target on themselves for the Republicans to shoot at, or Denounce his claims and try to regain the trust of some of the swing voters therebye solidifying their political positions in the eyes some of the unsure Republicans and independents. The questions is, will the Democrats pick choice 1 or 2?

I am so SICK of the KARL ROVE REPUBLICANS spinning the facts,I CAN"T TAKE IT ANYMORE.

I AM VOTING A STRAIGHT DEMOCRATIC TICKET FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE!!!

If you believe that one comment by John Kerry changes anything that George W. Bush,and his Republican Rubberstamp Congress have done the last six years,then you deserve more of the same crap from Bush the next two years.

Myself,I've seen enough of this loser President,and his Republican croonies.

I AM NOW A FORMER REPUBLICAN!!!!!

I have been sitting on the sidelines on this one for awhile, partly to find out the context of what Kerry said (by the way Jethro, you and I have been on the opposite sides of more than one issue but I want to commend you for adding clarity to this thread – that took integrity) but mainly to try to dig out some information that should put this in perspective for both Kerry and a number of posters on this blog.
First, I think its pretty clear that what Kerry said was what he meant – if you mis-speak on the punch line of a joke, you generally try to back up right away. What is more, it is pretty clear that a significant portion (although, I doubt a majority) of the leftist posters here think that his statement is valid - just not diplomatic. (“Kerry was just being honest. Those hackjobs who talk about all these "educated people in the military" are just so full of it. They'll actually blatantly lie and twist numbers around and not even consider all the cannonfodder that comes and goes in and out of the military.” Iconoclast421;” Without an education, maybe your only choice will be joining the armed forces.” Vulturbreath; and “The percentage of military personnel with a college degree is lower than that of the general population. Fact. End of story. You're argument is DOA.” – frosty.)
This level of ignorance on the part of a US Senator (one who claims to speak authoritatively on military matters) and on the part of so many posters explains a lot about that element of the political left who “loathe the military.” Well, let’s just set them straight (won’t change their minds I am sure but at least they will have the facts right there in front of them).
According to the census bureau (http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/p20-550.pdf ) of the overall US population over the age of 25, 85% have a HS diploma or equivalent, 53% have some college, and 27% have a Bachelors degree or higher.
Let’s compare that to the US military. First of all, bear in mind that enlisted personnel start as young as 18 (vs. 25 for the census data), yet HS or GED is 100%.and depending on the branch even GED holders are limited to 1 – 10% of the total (the exceptions have to meet other demanding criteria) Then, according to the Congressional Budget Office (http://www.cbo.gov/showdoc.cfm?index=5108&sequence=1 ) in 1999 (the most recent data I could find) 74% of the enlisted ranks have some college.
That is already well above the national numbers, despite the age disadvantage of the military numbers but we have not gotten to the officers yet. They make up 18% of the total military population and essentially all hold an undergraduate degree at least. What I could not find is what percent of enlisted personnel have a Bach. degree or higher (as many E8 and E9 jobs are very skilled, it would be significant), or any number that would allow me to adjust for the much younger body of people. Finally, much of the training the military provides is the equivalent to college level training but comes with certification instead of ‘hours” or degrees.
In other words, for the boatload of ignorant people who look down at our “poor” military, I hate to break it to you but they are smarter than you are and have the credentials to prove it. (By the way, thanks to Bruce for pointing out that the evidence shows that our military comes from all economic strata – the recent enlistments of the sons of Mayor Daley and Senator McCain amplify that point as well).
RRD

PS to Elanor “1) You know nothing about me, or anyone else posting here.
2) The war in Iraq has nothing to do with defending either the Constitution or our country. Not. One. Thing.
3) A President who supports the U.S. military would not disrespect the people who serve in it by sending them to conduct an illegal war against a country that had done ours no harm, and then refuse to give them the resources to win that war."
At least you have your facts right on the first one but 33% is still a failing grade.

Hey Tom, it's funny that you should mention Bush's Yale days. Because, you know, Kerry went to Yale around the same time that Bush did. Guess whose grades were better?

All you leftist posters who are saying that what Kerry said is right, please KEEP POSTING. I want everyone who reads this blog to realize how stuck-up and ignorant most leftists really are, lest they think it's just John Kerry that engages in these delusions of grandeur.

How about John Stroger's son and Senator Kerry on a ticket together for something? Great minds think alike.....Too bad Kerry isn't from Illinois. Would have made a great gubernatorial candidate.

Holy Cow! Has there ever been more desperation in the air?! Were all you true-believers really waiting for this precise moment in history to rally around the flag and the neo-nuts because John Kerry did or didn't make a mistatement regarding Bush or our troops? How pathetic! Why aren't you more concerned about your enviromental-trashing, war-mongering, eavsdropping, torturing, budget-busting, special-interest-loving, gay-bashing, science-hating, civil-rights-invading, word-butchering, liar-in-chief and his allies in a corrupt, dysfuctional congress?

It is fascinating that you have taken his comment so out of context, he was referring to George W Bush with his comment. Kerry said, "George W Bush had lived in Texas but now 'lives in a state of denial'. You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

The whole line was in reference to only one person and that person was George W Bush. Don't be fooled again by the spin.

I believe that Kerry probably was talking about President Bush and not the troops.

But for a person like Kerry who wanted to be president and is supposed to be so educated and 'nuanced' to say such an ambigious statement that could be easily taken the wrong way shows he is not the brightest crayon in the box.

"elistments since 9/11 were richer and more educted than ever before in American history."

pmk

"Bud you are a sad, angry, pseudo-intellectual that has NO clue about who goes to Iraq.

You are the worst kind of snob, one that has no reason to be snotty since you are clueless."
Morti

Since these are the first two direct hits, I will dismantle them first.

...As if the Wall Street Journal has no bias.

But that aside, the Journal's study isn't about the military enlistments and college enrollments and corporate entry level jobs. The comparison is about today's enlistments vs. yesteryear's enlistments of which I happened to be a part.

Having been in the military, I know a little something about who enlists. And while I would match up my cohorts against any American, most of them were only there because they didn't make the grade and they didn't have the cash to go to school until after they completed their service. Others loved the military and were going to be in there for life.

So, you see, Morti, I have some idea about who is serving.

But I suppose you are right on another point. It does make me "sad and angry" to see this kind of imbalance. I'd prefer a draft that would at least limit the "cover" wanna-be GI Joes get from an all-voluntary military.

But that's not going to happen any time soon which allows guys like Morti puff out his chest and call people he knows nothing about names.

But I can take it. In fact, I welcome it. It's Morti's right. And I served so that he would have that right.

My, my, my...oh, how the folks of liberal persuasion get in a high dudgeon whenever one of their own comes across like a jackass. If one takes a close look at the content of comments by liberal and conservative writers, one can actually tally up the invective and pejoratives slung about and see that the use of plain old nasty, demeaning, and personal-attack seems to be the province of the liberals by a wide margin.

Quite frankly, they all too often come across like puerile adolescents who have no rational response to something they do not like to hear, resorting to little more than a "oh, yeah, well so's your mother" mode.

Oh, I know, I'll be excoriated by good old liberals as being a pompous, blind jerk who should just crawl back where I came from. So much for all the BS that liberals are always spouting about free speech. It's free when they have something to say, but my cost for expressing my opinion will be to have some negatives attributes flung my way.

Folks, this back and forth name-calling is so silly as it does not contribute to the solutions to the myriad problem this nation faces. Get a grip, try arguing a position without all the mud-slinging. Unfortunately, I think I'm dreaming if I think that will ever happen in the US again. Our entire body politic seems to be "SOS" -- STUCK ON STUPID!!!!!

I currently work on an AF base. I talk to both enlisted men and officers daily. "Leslie" below is more on the mark than folks like "Clay K" who parrot the line that only losers join the military. Liberals, who seem to think of themselves as brighter and better educated, would be surprised to find out how bright and well educated non-liberals are.

John,

Thanks for this Hallowe'en gift. I always thought you had a snowball's chance in hell in 2008 (like me), but now I think it's about time you were voted out of office.

Your fellow chameleon,

Hill (and my co-president Bill)

hey PEOPLE-

Kerry was talking about Bush and his cabinet, and the White House knows and has ACKNOWLDEGED that. It's clear he wasn't referring to the soldiers fighting in Iraq and calling THEM stupid.

How he screwed up was in the delivery. That was supposed to be the punchline to a little humor aimed at the White House. Still, many people in the room got the joke anyway and laughed.

And, even if Kerry had put his foot in his mouth, let's see... that would make the score (higher points being worse)...

Kerry 1
Bush 6,389,372,420

The only people who could possibly interpret his comment as damaging for democrats are the sycophantic non-thinkers who are incapable of critical, analytical thought (assuming they have all the relevant information).

That is the best explanation for people on this forum who clearly believe that Kerry was calling our troops dumb and that's it, that's what happened.

And I'm not even a democrat, nor did I vote for Kerry.

Sadly, there is the group-think crowd who fall in line and parrot parrot parrot, and if the RNC is adept enough (with the help of papers like this one) to program their followers with radio shows and "newsmen" and headlines like the one for this post, it could actually BECOME a real problem for the dems. But not because it actually is, but because weak, cowardly political operatives are paid big money to make it happen. BIG difference.

I wonder if the author has "cashed his check" from the RNC yet for this one.

Way to go, Frank James. Way to be part of the problem instead of part of the solution.

I only have one question.

What if George W. Bush had said what John Kerry said? How far would the left wingers go to destroy him?

WOW congratulations Frank on hitting a real hot button. Glad to see that more than a dozen or so of us tune in to The Swamp.

Isn't Kerry actually poking fun at HIMSELF with this comment. He ended up taking fire in Vietnam while Dubya stayed at home eating bonbons and helping dad and his pals with their campaigns (not to mention also driving a number of business ventures into failure). He ends up in the Oval Office and Kerry ends up vilified for talking about the atrocities of war. Who is the better role model for future generations?

And, yes, Vietnamese/Iraqi women and children were/are being terrorized in their homes by our soldiers. How quickly everyone forgets that 14 year old girl who was gang raped and murdered with her family members. Certainly not the norm of our service people, but happening nonetheless. No wonder the hatred for us grows around the world.

Get a grip people and quit reading things into statements such as this. At least he didn't call them a bunch of 'macacas'.

uhh, I haven't read all of these posts (maybe like, 50 of them I have) but has anyone who is chest beating about military smarts pointed out the difference between the OFFICERS and the ENLISTED?

Most enlisted people are people who either could not get into college or couldn't afford it. Many of them are bright, smart people, smart enough to rise to top ranks, and these people are discovered and given a commission, or sent to ROTC or the academies. To be an officer, you MUST have a degree.

To be enlisted, especially under Rumsfelds watered down requirements to pump up the recruiting numbers (which suck), you basically just need to be alive and not retarded. You can even be a gang member, a felon, or a fricking neo-nazi skinhead.

You have heard about swastika graffiti showing up on the walls around Baghdad, haven't you?

So yes, it's obvious that there are many very smart people in the military.

If John Kerry believes people who have not fought in a war can not question anything he says or comment on military issues, then will we no longer have to hear the opinions and criticisms of Ted Kennedy, Hillary Clinton, Pelosi, Bill Clinton and many others who too have not fought in a war?

And no John Kerry is not running, but if the Democrats get control, his beliefs are what they believe and they will implement their cowardly cut and run policy. What you see in what he said, is what the country would get with a Democratic controlled Congress.
The Democrats have kept Pelosi and Reid hidden for fear of what they might say, I guess they forgot about Kerry.

If Kerry is a typical anything, he is a typical politician. Please -- accept the responsibility of saying something foolish and ignorant and move on. To blame others for the consequences of your own words is childish.

What does the out-sourcing of jobs have to do with Kerry's statement Master of Reality? Your dislike of the President does not make Kerry's statements any less insulting or make Kerry any less accountable. Whenever I see the scatter-gun approach of spouting negative issues that are completely out of context with the debate, it tells me that either the person's stance is not supportable in fact or that the person is not being objective -- blinded by emotion?

Kerry said what he said. There is nothing more to it. It is not the President's fault because Kerry screwed up.

He's still not as stupid as the sheeple who voted for him. I mean just read their comments here. They can't manage to make any sense. If you buy his line("joke"), then I guess that says it all.

How is it a lie or an attack when someone repeats what someone else said? KoolAid drinkers please explain.

My two oldest sons enlisted in the U.S. Army, reported to boot camp out of high school, and now serve in S. Korea. Both were honor students at Apex H.S.

Yes, they had a lot of choices, but decided to serve their country.

From what I've seen of the induction process, the US military is incredibly picky about who they select and who they retain.

And I've have just about had it with Senator Kerry crapping all over the US military every chance he gets.

America, love it or leave it.

I voted for Kerry because unlike Bush he has served honorably in the military and thus possesses a respect for the horrors of war and because frankly, I can't imagine anyone worse than the current jingoistic, empirial, despotic, chickenhawk President.

That said, regardless of the spin, when I heard this statement I found it to be shockingly callous, demeaning and self-defeating. He comes achingly close to calling the troops uneducated bums. I have not served and will not serve in the military, so I don't feel I'm entitled to either belittle or wax poetic about our soldiers. But the statement was uncalled for under any circumstances, even from a former soldier.

Lost in the uproar over the punchline, is the fact that if you just read the first part and didn't know who said it:

“You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework, you make an effort to be smart, you can do well."

You would more than likely assume that GEORGE BUSH SAID IT. Am I the only person in this country who wants the President of the United States to be able to speak beyond a cliche?!?

Senator Kerry can explain all he wants to but to no avail The point remains that he was talking to students and he was warning them what happens to students who, in his eyes, are stupid or unable to get good grades.

They have to join the military.

I guess that Senator Kerry spends little time with those that serve. If he did, he might see that they are, by and large, pretty well educated-and motivated to boot. Hiss arrogance and well-heeled background are coming to the fore. He has proven himself again to be an elitist snob out of touch with reality.

Does he work for Karl Rove?

Ok, I would love to see the whole speech, just like everyone else. Out of context stuff is pointless to comment on. Let's look at what he did say. The part about studying hard, trying to be smart.....
Clearly there are intelligent people in the military. They arrived there by different paths and for different reasons. Some signed up out of patriotism, some from family tradition, some for the experience, some to avoid jail, but a vast majority came for the educational benefits and financial gain.
When your family is middle class or lower sometimes their is no money for continued education. So, it's not about being smart, it's about being poor. Maybe the elitists in both partys can take note. How about a mandatory 2 year enlistment for everyone under 25, give us all something in common, rather than something to divide us.

The Republicans will pounce on Kerry's poorly chosen words because they have nothing else going for them this election. The American people aren't stupid and won't be distracted, head-faked by this last-minute GOP "hail Mary pass". Nice try, Republicans, but you'll have to do a lot more for us to forget about the failing quagmire in Iraq, insane federal deficits, epic corruption a la Abramoff/DeLay/Foley, and just well-known GOP incompetence(Hurricane Katrina, Iraq, Foleygate, etc.)
The "Wave" is coming, Republicans, this upcoming Tuesday. You'd be wise to run for shelter and limit your losses than stupidly stand at the shore in deluded defiance against the coming electoral tsunami.

MUCH TO BILL'S DISMAY,THERE IS GOING TO BE A WELL DESERVED FUNERAL FOR THE GOP ON NOV.7,2006.

Bill,...Even Kerry's misspeaks can't hide the Cowboy in Chief,and his Republican locksteppers from the blunnders they have made the last 6 years.

Bill..it's time to pay the piper,for all of you wingnuts.
Nov.7,2006,..I can't wait to hear you and Paulo,and little Johnny/JD "Tammy" crying in your wine spitzers.

NICE TRY BILLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Once again, Kerry steals defeat from the jaws of victory! What a doofus!

Kerry and Gore, those guys are pure entertainment when they stop listening to their advisors. Republicans are mischaracterizing what Kerry said. Normally I would be against these kinds of political tactics, but after all of the BS that the Democrats have done to damage our country, I'm all for using it. Maybe this will give the Dems someone to blame when the election doesn't go as they expected. Just blame Kerry and the electronic voting machines that Bush programmed.

It's clear to me that Kerry was speaking obliquely about Bush when he made the comments. He'd have to be stupid if he was referring to the troops in Iraq. Kerry's not a stupid man. Now the guy who misled us into the war in Iraq... that's another story.
Kerry is only guilty in not being a bit more clear in his reference to Bush. That's it. End of story. Move along. Nothing else to see here.

Let's not lose sight of what started this BLOG. Sen. Kerry said that soldiers are dumb and the dumbest get "stuck" in Iraq. I'm a soldier, have a master's degree, and those soldiers I work with are mostly pretty well-educated and well motivated. Those that aren't don't do well and we don't like to take them with us when we go in harm's way. Now if you take exception to our foriegn policy, good for you. That's a right we all can agree is important. Calling me and those I serve with losers just pisses me off. We do what we do for many reasons, but being dumb is not one of them. OK. Got that off my chest. Back to work preparing for my next deployment. Silly me...

Yo righties, explain this to me.
Kerry makes a stupid remark and it's the end of the world.
Bush makes 1000 stupid remarks and you morons want him to be remembered as one of the best presidents ever? Are all of you idiots or just the republicans who post here? You voted for a dimwit...just admit it. I especially like it when he suggested ob/gynecologists have a special love relationship with their patients.

Thank you John Kerry for your tasteless remarks. Hopefully on 11-7 we'll have an early Christmas present when the Republicans keep control of Congress. Thank God our fathers didn't feel the same way as some Americans do or we might all be speaking German now. And I seem to remember reading somewhere that GW got better grades in college than Mr. Kerry. America is safer now because of President Bush. Heaven help us if the Dems gain control of Congress. My son was a Marine in the 80's and was proud to be one as I am of him. God Bless America and President Bush.

Why is it I am seeing people call people of different ideas idiots, scumbags, a**h**es, and other disrespectful names? I am an Independent voter and what I am reading really disturbs me. We need to be out of Irag, but not like we left Vietnam. We need to respect, and support, our troops, not like alot did during Vietnam. To make such a remark about our troops, whether it is to bash our President or just trying to make a point, is dispicable. Our men and women need to feel the people are behind them. One may let it be known they are against the war and it can be done in a respectful way. Some of you have a viciousness that is very scary and it worries me. Are we becoming so hateful of those who do not have the same opinion that we have to spit venom like a read here?

Kerry was wrong, no matter why he said it. He would be more of man to most if he sucked it up and, at the least, apologized to everyone who has served, and is serving, in our military. People do take remarks wrong, that is human nature. When it happens one needs to stand up and say they are sorry it was taken wrongly.

Kerry is a very scary man and I hope the Democratic Party is smart enough to ensure he doesn't run again. If you want the Republicans out you better have a better person than Kerry. He is bad news all the way.

All Democrates and Republicans need to think about the 3rd party - Liberterians before you pull that lever the election and next because both parties are becoming very scary.

Before all you arrogant liberals, spouting talking points, jump onto the Kerry bandwagon, saying he's right, take a moment to learn the facts about those of us who serve. There has never been a more educated, devoted, patriotic military than the one Kerry so off-handidly demeans. And yes, he did mean us in his comments, not George Bush. He's done this before when he claimed we are rapers and pillagers akin to Ghengis Khan. Get your facts straight and stop demeaning those of us who've devoted our lives to defending your right to be stupid.

To all the retards who keep bringing up Katrina:

The Coast Guard, one of the military services Senator Kerry thinks is full of losers, that President Bush is Commander-in-Chief and therefore controls.... saved 33500 lives in the aftermath of Katrina.

How many lives did Ray Nagin, Gov Blanco, and Senator Kerry save.....ZERO.

www.gao.gov/new/items/06903.pdf

Get a clue and get your facts straight before spouting off.

"Kerry's just doing what he's been doing for the last 35 years: disparaging everyone who wears a uniform for the US military.

Why is anyone surprised?

And why don't you Kerry apologists look-up the number of people in the military with at least a high school degree versus the civilian population. You'll finally see why the rest of us think you are such elitist snobs who thrive on emotion over intellect and fact."

Very fine post, Hoss. Deserved repeating.

Not sure why exactly, but nonetheless. It's not like they're listening.

;)

Master of Reality, Bud McFarlin, Raving Loon, and the rest of you who are supporting Kerrry in this, SHAME on you! Kerry's comments were not taken out of context, the full statement has been published over the net, the audio is available as well. This 12 year military veteran of the Marins and Army think you twits are pathetic. Agreeing with what he said about the troops shows you are the uneducated ones. What would you say if you were to find out that the intellectual requirements to join the Marines is higher than most colleges? Just graduating from Marine basic training qualifies you to 6 or more college level credit hours. People like John Kerry were the ones that ran the Vichy Government during WWII, being thr traiters they were.

None of the wingers here have explained exactly what Kerry could have hoped to gain by attacking the troops. If Kerry is just a shameless, insincere political hack who'll say anything if he thinks it will help, what possible gain could he expect by attacking the troops?

Unless you can explain that, perhaps you need to rethink the truly idiotic notion that he pursued the no-upside strategy of attacking the troops.

My criticism expressly includes all the putative military personnel and families who have posted to this thread. I thank you (and/or yours) for your service, but this mindless sloganeering raises genuine questions about whether you're as smart as you claim to be.

He had to have been referring to the soldiers, because Bush has a Master's and so do the rest of his staff. Kerry can't twist that around.

The most telling takeaway from the comments above... is the number of Democrats who believe Kerry was right.

That says it all.

To all the Kerry Haters,

HE WASN'T TALKING ABOUT THE TROOPS

KERRY IS A DECORATED VETERAN

CHECK HIS VOTING RECORD, HE SUPPORTS THE TROOPS EVERY CHANCE HE GETS.

YOU RIGHT WINGNUTS ARE HOWLING AT THE MOON, and the media piling on Kerry for insulting the troops when he was actually insulting THE PRESIDENT AND HIS CABINET is a repulsive thing to see in what is supposed to be a free society with more respect for the ideas of TRUTH and INTEGRITY than winning at all costs.

Yet, we have braindead parrots like "Kathy" thanking a non-existent God for giving us GWB as Prez, and complete ignoramuses like "Brad" saying we should be ashamed. What a joke.

By the way, Brad, are you kidding? "the intellectual requirements to join the Marines is higher than most college
.." ????

What colleges are you talking about? The online universities where you only need a credit card number? It USED to be a requirement that you be a high school graduate to enlist in the military.

Now, with Bush and Rummy ripping the military to shreds and sending them into battle in Iraq without even a clear purpose established, the military is unpopular and people aren't volunteering. So what did they do?

THEY LOWERED THE ENLISTMENT STANDARDS. You don't need a high school diploma anymore. You don't even need a clean criminal record. And kudos to you, Jeff, for pointing out that the percentage of people in the military with a diploma is higher than the general public. Thanks for pointing out the obvious, because it used to be a REQUIREMENT!! OF COURSE THERE ARE MORE HIGH SCHOOL DIPLOMAS IN THE MILITARY THAN IN THE PUBLIC!!

But soon, the percentage of military people without criminal records and without even a GED will be higher than ever, thanks to a ridiculous, lie based, unpopular war in Iraq, which has caused Bush to direct the military to lower it's recruitment standards. Bush is pro-military? At the rate we're going, in a few years our military will have just as many felons, gang-members, white supremacists and just plain mentally defective people as it does good soldiers.

Bush is turning our military into a force of uninhibited mercenaries who will do anything.

Maybe he has plans to even unleash it on his own citizens, especially considering that now he can detain anyone he wants who doesn't like him.

Congrats, wingnut Bush supporters. You have enabled a cabal of intellectual midgets to implement fascist laws in America.

Because of Bush, America is literally no longer the beacon of Freedom and Justice that once DID shine its light around the world.

Bush supporters are by definition ANTI-AMERICA.

Compared to Kerry, Tony Snow is a "Class Act." He is dignified, intelligent and very patient with the liberal media. How easy it would be for him to ask why they want to defend everything about the liberals and try to find fault with Bush and the conservatives. It is so obvious whose side the media is on. They should realize the terrorists don't distinguish between parties, color, occupations, etc. They hate all Americans. The liberal media does exactly what the terrorists want. They fester the hate every time they print their anti-conservative views and make those terrorists oh sooooo happy to see the media siding with the terrorist prisoners. On the flip side of the coin, siding with Kerry shows how anti-troops the liberal media are. When they have a wake-up call, it may be too late.

Tony, keep up the good work! We need someone like you to stand up for what is good and right.

This is addressed to blinkin:
Kerry said what he did because he is such an elitist and is so arrogant and out of touch with real people that he thought everyone would just bow down to him and agree and not question him. After all, freedom of speech is only for those who agree with the Democrats.

To Rob:
You must be looking at a different congressional record than I am. He has always voted against the troops and trashed them back in the 60's. This is nothing new, nor is it new in the Democratic Pary. No one should be surprised and has once again showed his true colors.

...in a few years our military will have just as many felons, gang-members, white supremacists and just plain mentally defective people as it does good soldiers...Bush is turning our military into a force of uninhibited mercenaries who will do anything.
Posted by: Rob Norris | Nov 1, 2006 11:44:53 AM

This is what the liberal elites think of our men and women in uniform. Stupid people too dumb to know the difference between right and wrong. Mentally defective people with nowhere else to go.

It's sad when people use their right to free speech to verbalize every assinine, unpatatriotic, and uninformed idea that pops into their tiny liberal brains.

You dems/liberals should be proud.

I think you democrats are the dumbest bunch I have witnessed in my life time. Everyone of you people are fighting to become something your never going to be - a world leader (or a decent petowner for that matter).

Stan,

Thank you for providing another example of a wingnut with selective reading comprehension. I did not say that our troops, as of right now, are mentally defective people with no where else to go. I simply pointed out that Bush and his cabal have lowered recruiting standards to unprecedentedly low levels. I said that, based on REALITY, ie. what is ACTUALLY HAPPENING RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE, because of the lower standards, which allow for the admission of felons, gang members, non-high-school graduates, and people who are mentally defective (meaning they have trouble determining what is right or wrong), that in a few years our military will have just as many of those people as it does GOOD SOLDIERS and sailors and airmen. Meaning, Bush is ruining our military because in a few years, it will have a LOT of people that, a few years ago, would NEVER HAVE BEEN ALLOWED. What is so hard to understand about that?

I also pointed out his fascist laws and the fact that they lied us to war with Iraq. But of course, the wingnuts don't comment on those realities, they do like they did to Kerry, and distort and take out of context things that they can take pleasure in attacking, even though they attack without merit, because they're attacking things that exist only in their minds.

So tell me, Stan, what is so assinine and uninformed about my point, which is actually based on informed reality, and is an inevitability??

And Hoss, you contradict yourself when you claim liberals are hated because they are "elitist snobs who thrive on emotion over intellect and fact." People are perceived as "elitist" when they use a college level vocabulary, meaning the people perceived as "elitist" are actually thriving on intellect and fact, and that is why they get the "elitist" brand, whereas it is the right wing, especially Bush, who thrive on emotion and gut feeling with complete disregard for the facts. You've got it backwards, and like most right wingnuts, you're projecting your own inadequacies onto those who disagree with you, which just serves to fuel your hatred of what you just think of as "the other team, the enemy, those darn liberals." People who think like you are dangerous to the future of America.

Oh, and Sarah Hodges... The liberal media does not exist on TV, except on Comedy Central with Colbert and Stewart, and I guess Maher on HBO. Every other mainstream network is inarguably right wing and afraid of Bush. That is UN-AMERICAN. You people would probably be OK with it if Bush started rounding up Americans and sending them to prison camps, which, coincidentally, are being built in the US right now. KBR is hard at work.

A reporter who asks a tough question to Snow is not by definition part of a "liberal media."

Because of the time delay in posting, there is bound to be a gap between this comment and the one from Rob Norris (above at 3:57:54 PM). Well said, Rob! Anyone who hasn't read it should look for it up above.

For those demanding that Kerry apologize, here is his statement, issued about an hour ago.

"As a combat veteran, I want to make it clear to anyone in uniform and to their loved ones: my poorly stated joke at a rally was not about, and never intended to refer to any troop.

"I sincerely regret that my words were misinterpreted to wrongly imply anything negative about those in uniform, and I personally apologize to any service member, family member, or American who was offended.

"It is clear the Republican Party would rather talk about anything but their failed security policy. I don’t want my verbal slip to be a diversion from the real issues. I will continue to fight for a change of course to provide real security for our country, and a winning strategy for our troops."

You want video, it's at:
http://blog.johnkerry.com/2006/11/a_statement_from_john_kerry.html

So, we're ALL satisfied now, and we can go on to other things. Right?

Did you hear the one from "Our Man in Baghdad," the Iraqi prime minister? While the Right was all in a snit yesterday about Kerry's comment, Nuri al-Maliki demanded the removal of American checkpoints from the streets of Baghdad. Now, who's the butt of that joke?
(The whole story is at: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/01/world/middleeast/01iraq.html?_r=1&oref=slogin)

There's a pattern here. Whenever the Snow-job is the loudest, the important question is: What are they trying to keep us from noticing?

So tell me, Stan, what is so assinine and uninformed about my point, which is actually based on informed reality, and is an inevitability?? ... I simply pointed out that Bush and his cabal have lowered recruiting standards to unprecedentedly low levels...because of the lower standards, which allow for the admission of felons, gang members, non-high-school graduates, and people who are mentally defective (meaning they have trouble determining what is right or wrong),
Posted by: Rob Norris | Nov 1, 2006 3:57:54 PM

Read what you wrote in your own words in the first post I quoted and the second post I'm quoting now dumba$$. You say and imply that lower standards are allowing mentally defective people to join the military NOW. How is calling military people mentally defective NOT insulting. What standards are being lowered that allow mentally defective people to join the military? Be specific. Impress me with your vast knowledge of how the military works.

I'm not attacking Senator Kerry. I believe his quote was taken out of context. I think it's funny and naïve that you think it is unfair for politicians (right before an election) to take advantage of him when he says something stupid.
Imagine politicians taking political advantage of something, how whacky is that.

I’m attacking you and elitist pigs like you who agree with what Senator Kerry supposedly didn’t mean to say. That is asinine.

You people would probably be OK with it if Bush started rounding up Americans and sending them to prison camps, which, coincidentally, are being built in the US right now. KBR is hard at work.
Posted by: Rob Norris | Nov 1, 2006 3:57:54 PM

Where are these prison camps being built? How is it that you know this information and the media are in the dark? Comments like that prove you have zero credibility. You better hope they don't come for the looney-tunes first.

Are you prepared to eat your hat, Stan? You must not expose yourself to the news much if you never heard about lowered recruiting standards...

about Army recruiting standards:

http://www.slate.com/id/2133908/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1499164,00.html

Oh, and did I say "prison camps?" I meant to say "detention centers." Sorry.

http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/47/17936

"I'm not attacking Senator Kerry. I believe his quote was taken out of context. I think it's funny and naïve that you think it is unfair for politicians (right before an election) to take advantage of him when he says something stupid."
Posted by: Stan | Nov 1, 2006 9:46:39 PM

And you're telling me to re-read what I wrote???
How do you not realize that you completely contradict yourself in that paragraph? You're not attacking Kerry because his comment was taken out of context, yet at the same time he did say something stupid? Nice one. If his comments were taken out of context, then what he said was actually "OK," and not "stupid." The two premises are mutually exlcusive.

And I don't think its "unfair" that people are attacking Kerry for nothing. I simply was trying to point out the inherent flaw in the process, whereby a man can be attacked for a misinterpretation of something he said and the media, instead of doing its job to clarify the story and frame the truth of the issue, just salivates over the controversy and makes matters worse. That is not the media's job in a democracy. But in our democracy, the media is more of a juggling sideshow to distract we the people from real issues and keep it focused on aliens, gay marraige, flag burning and celebrities.

"I’m attacking you and elitist pigs like you who agree with what Senator Kerry supposedly didn’t mean to say. That is asinine."
Posted by: Stan | Nov 1, 2006 9:46:39 PM

And you still think I am somehow of the opinion that the military is full of mentally defective people. Stan, you definitely have selective comprehension. I'm only saying that since recruiting standards have been lowered, more and more people are being allowed to join that never would have been allowed before, and many of them with criminal records, drug problems, or very low scores on the aptitude tests. You could call some of these people let in under the lower standards "mentally defective," if you want, but the point is, they woulnd't have been let in a few years ago, and that is a result of Bush's jingoistic cowboy policies, or Cheney's puppeteering.

...You could call some of these people let in under the lower standards "mentally defective," if you want,...
Posted by: Rob Norris | Nov 2, 2006 10:03:11 AM

Nice try Rob,

You used the words 'mentally defective' and said the new Army recruits couldn't tell right from wrong.

The articles you linked to do NOT use these words, they were YOUR choice. Look up the recruiting standards for the US Army and show me where an official document says what category 'mentally defective' recruits fall into and when they can be allowed to join the service. What is the official US Army definition of a CAT IV recruit?

What Senator Kerry was stupid, he f*cked up his own joke and didn't even catch it. The comments before the blown joke show he was talking about President Bush. No evil Republicans made him say what he did. He screwed up and he's responsible for his words, even if they are taken out of context.

A lot of people say President Bush has no right to criticize someone for misspeaking. And yet President has managed to mangle the English language and still not insult the troops by calling them stupid or mentally defective.

You base your argument on prison camps on an article in Truthout.org. I encourage everyone to go to this site and judge for yourself how much credibility this organization has. Here is a quote from another story on the site:

“Never mind that toppling a brutal dictator is not a legal or a moral justification for launching a war or killing 650,000 people or torture or rape or murder or detentions or warrantless spying or the rest of what this war has brought, ...”

Part of the statement can be argued intelligently, that there was no moral justification to the war. But to go on to say we killed 650,000 people and we (American soldiers and George Bush???) torture, rape and murder people is repulsive.

Very fair and balanced. If that is what you think of the US military, our President, and the United States, then I think you aren’t quite the cerebral wonder you think you are. I would take the intelligence of any soldier, sailor, airman, or marine (even a CAT IV one) over your limited mental capacity any day.

HAHAHA John Kerry: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330045393851

"The articles you linked to do NOT use these words, they were YOUR choice. Look up the recruiting standards for the US Army and show me where an official document says what category 'mentally defective' recruits fall into and when they can be allowed to join the service. What is the official US Army definition of a CAT IV recruit?" - Stan

Yes, "mentally defective" was my choice. Perhaps that is too strong a word. If so, I'll retract it. They are not "mentally defective." But so like someone who knows they're wrong yet still keeps spouting off, you focus on my usage of the term "mentally defective" and ignore all of my other points. You also tell me to look things up as though my argument rests on the definition of "cat IV." I'm not going to look up a cat IV recruit for you if you're too lazy to do it yourself. I am not responsible for you understanding terminology in an article when it's right in front of your face. The plain facts are this:

1. Recruiting standards are lower
2. Among the people now being let in the army are known convicts, white supremacists, and gang members.

Those two things are true. So tell me Stan, is a convict, or a white supremacist, or a gang member someone you want serving in your military? Are they gonna be good soldiers? Or are they gonna take their training and bring it back to their gang or hate group, or say, break into a house in the middle of a night and rape a young woman and then murder her family???

"A lot of people say President Bush has no right to criticize someone for misspeaking. And yet President has managed to mangle the English language and still not insult the troops by calling them stupid or mentally defective."

Do you remember when he referred to our dead soldiers as "a comma?" I can't think of anything more insulting than that. And I'm not DEMEANING the military when I point out the truth that many new recruits are convicts and gang members.

Truthout.org is a respected alternative news source. Guess what Stan, the story on truthout linked from MARKETWATCH.com, run by the Dow Jones. If you even read the article you would have known that it cites its sources, unlike you. The audacity. I'll paste the link directly to the marketwatch page.

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=%7B62C8724D%2DAE8A%2D4B5C%2D94C7%2D70171315C0A0%7D&dist=SignInArchive¶m=archive&siteid=mktw&dateid=38741%2E5136277662%2D858254656

"Part of the statement can be argued intelligently, that there was no moral justification to the war. But to go on to say we killed 650,000 people and we (American soldiers and George Bush???) torture, rape and murder people is repulsive."

There also was no "legal justification," ie. it was ILLEGAL. That number, 650,000? It's the middle number of the study from Johns Hopkins that estimated the total deaths as a result of our invasion in Iraq since 2003. The way the study was conducted is the best way to estimate that kind of statistic. Don't you remember a couple weeks ago when the President called that same study "not credible?" Probably because it was actually scientific, and he likes to stick to his gut. So did we directly kill those people? No. Would they have died like they did if we never invaded? No, they would not have. Get it? And are you actually trying to say that we didn't torture, rape and murder in Iraq? So you forgot Abu Graihb, waterboarding, the young Iraqi woman who was raped and murdered, along with her family, by young American recruits who are now on trial for it? You don't remember the CIA torture chambers in Syria? You're not paying attention, its as though you have literally been living in a cave.

"Very fair and balanced. If that is what you think of the US military, our President, and the United States, then I think you aren’t quite the cerebral wonder you think you are."

And you end with an insult. Typical for a person whose arguing an untenable position. "Yeah, well, you're stupid!" That's basically what you're saying to me. So my conclusions, based on fact and reported news, are wrong because...why again? Wake up man. Do you know what the Military Commissions Act of 2006 is? It's a fascist law. It allows Bush to detain and torture with impunity, and it clears him from prosecution for having already been DOING IT!!!!

And yes, some of our soldiers have committed rape and murder against innocent civilians. You're like Bush, living in a "State of Denial." I think those things of the current occupant because that's what he's shown me. That is what our new recruits have shown us.

I have great respect for our military as a whole and the people who make it run. I have respect for the boots on the ground and the enlisted men. I'm a former midshipman myself, I know what the military is about. That's why I'm so angered by Bush's dismantling of the military, sending them to the wrong country to invade without the right equipment and the right plan, for saying their sacrifice in Iraq will be just a comma in history while at the same time garnering votes for his sycophantic republican rubber stamp congressman by using the war to scare people. He doesn't care about our troops. If he did, he would have at least had a plan.

If you actually cared enough about America and our troops you would be far more informed than you are. You're just spitting venom at those who don't support Bush because you think that's somehow the "American" thing to do (support Bush). Learn how to think before you and your hordes overrun what used to be the greatest country in the world, but is slowly being degraded by the worst regime in American history, and non-thinkers like you who are allowing it to happen.

Or you could just be a sad little troll with no one to play with. Your response will tell the tale.

1. Yes, "mentally defective" was my choice. Perhaps that is too strong a word. If so, I'll retract it.

2. I'm not going to look up a cat IV recruit for you if you're too lazy to do it yourself. I am not responsible for you understanding terminology in an article when it's right in front of your face.

3. Truthout.org is a respected alternative news source.

4. There also was no "legal justification," ie. it was ILLEGAL.

5. And you end with an insult. Typical for a person whose arguing an untenable position. "Yeah, well, you're stupid!" That's basically what you're saying to me.

6. I have great respect for our military as a whole and the people who make it run. I have respect for the boots on the ground and the enlisted men.

7. I'm a former midshipman myself; I know what the military is about.

Posted by: Rob Norris | Nov 2, 2006 4:44:29 PM

Rob, or should I say Der Führer,
I’ll respond to your rantings in order.

1. Actually I found a news source that sounds a lot like your original post. It’s a news story entitled “US Army to Recruit Mental Defectives”. It’s on a White Supremacist web site called NATIONAL VANGUARD. Google the title and tell me what other “news” organizations pop up. Explain that Adolf.

2. DOD 571.2 lists the mental categories.

3. BullSh!t

4. House Joint Resolution 114 (2002) authorized the use of force (war). It was signed by a bunch of Democrats. It specifically mentions WMD, and AlQaieda in Iraq. It says a lot of other stuff too; you might want to read it. You can get a mentally defective service member to help you with the big words.

5. Yes that is true. I can’t fool you.

6. You support the troops. That is one of the stupidest things you’ve said. You have to be a retard to think that calling the troops mentally defective, murdering, rapists that are prosecuting an illegal war as they torture enemy prisoners is support.

You forgot to mention supporting the women who are fighting too.
That was very politically incorrect of you.

7. You weren’t in the military. What military rank does a ‘Midshipman’ hold? E1 – E9? O1 – O10? Don’t flatter yourself by thinking you could be.

At best you’re a blowhard with very questionable sources. You’re a shining example of the new Democratic Party.

Sieg Heil!

Der Oberschwantzfurher Rob,

I forgot to mention I found this on the US ARMY web page:

"Enlistment As An Alternative To Prosecution

Applicants may not enlist as an alternative to criminal prosecution, indictment, incarceration, parole, probation, or other punitive sentence. They are ineligible for enlistment until the original assigned sentence would have been completed."

So your assertion that known criminals can join the Army is Scheiße. That means Sh!t in your mother language of the fatherland.

Do you remember when he referred to our dead soldiers as "a comma?" I can't think of anything more insulting than that.
Posted by: Rob Norris | Nov 2, 2006 4:44:29 PM

Dear Rob -- The stormtrooping, brownshirt wearing, schwinehund,

This is what the President really said:

"We're going to help the Iraqi people. Remember, 12 million of them voted in elections last December. That probably seems like a decade ago to you, but when the history is finally written, it will be just a comma. Twelve million people stood up in the face of assassins and car bombers and said, we want to be free."

He was talking about the length of time since the Iraqi elections. He was talking about Iraqis, not "our dead soldiers".

Maybe your White Supremacist website got the quote wrong. You might want to go back and read it again.

Rob,

I posted 3 or 4 responses over 9 hours ago. I guess I've been censored.

I don't wanto you to think I forgot about you.

Love,
Stan

As far as I'm concerned, Kerry can say whatever he wants in his "apology" or rebuttal. It isn't going to change his original comment and savvy people will know he is just desperately trying to back pedal to save face. His comment came across as very snobby and disrespectful toward our military personnel.

The military doesn't take just anybody these days. There was a time in the past when the military was sometimes an option for high school drop outs and juvenile delinquents. Those days are over for the most part. The military has raised their standards quite a bit. It's hard to get into the military these days if you are a deadbeat and a "loser" or a juvenile delinquent. There are also many many people in the military who are incredibly intelligent and who also come from families with above average incomes.

There are still people in this country who teach their children that serving their country is a privilege and an honor regardless of the socio-economic background they come from. Yes, there are some people in the military who have only average intelliegence or who came from poor families, so what? Does that make them less valuable?

Anyone who serves our country deserves our respect and gratitude - period. Our soldiers don't deserve any comments that could be interpreted as insults toward them. When I see soldiers in public, I make a point to go over and shake their hands and tell them thank you for their service and that I'm grateful for them. I challenge the rest of the nation to do the same.

Rob Norris, I don't know if the Iraq war was just or not, but we're there so I think we should finish what we started. Hussein did terrible unspeakable things to his own people and I think it's good he was removed from power. The Iraqi people seem to want freedom. I've met soldiers who have been there in Iraq and interacted with the civilians and they tell me the Iraqi people want to be free and they want democracy. I think we need to do what is necessary to get the Iraqi people in a position to take care of themselves and protect their own freedom. Then we need to leave and let them take care of themselves and only return if we are asked to do so.

In organizations as huge as the US armed forces of course you are going to end up with a few undesirables and bad apples. But they are few, Rob. Cat IV recruits are quite limited. There may be more than there were a few years ago, but compared to the entire Armed Forces, the number is still very small. The Cat IV recruits are also usually some of the first to see the frontlines. The positions they can occupy are extremely limited.

Regardless, they are still putting themselves in harms way for me, you, and everyone else in this country. Basic training is not easy, I'm sure you remember that. My recruiter friends say that gang members and supremacists often get weeded out during basic training. So while they may sometimes get recruited, there is a percentage of all recruits who wash out and don't make it through basic. A few bad apples make it through here and there, but again compared to the entire Armed Forces, they are a very very small number.

I think I can say this because a very close relative is a retired Major (2 star) General from one of the Armed Forces. A couple of my friends are or recently have been recruiters for the Air Force and Army. I have many peers who have served in the Armed Forces. We have all talked about this issue together, and the perceptions that persist in the media and general public.

I've also met a lot of ROTC students, and the ones who make it all the way through the program - with very rare exception they have been the cream of the crop in my opinion. Extremely exceptional young people by even the strictest standards.

I think we do the vast majority of fine people serving our country a grave disservice if we focus on a few bad apples and ignore the 99+% who are very fine and brave people. All the negative things you are talking about in your post apply to only a very few armed forces personnel.

Kerry's comment was in bad taste and was disrespectful, that's what this Trib article was chiefly about. He can apologize or rebutt all he wants to try and save face and cover up his attitudes, but in my opinion, he's shown his true colors and he's not the kind of person I can support.

I'm not a big fan of Bush either. When I voted in 2004 I felt like I was making a choice between what I thought was the lesser of two evils. As one of my retired military friends said earlier today - "A breath of fresh air in a national election would be two great leaders who have the ability to think and to lead, and now I would get to choose the leader I would think of in terms of all kinds of positives.

We need a true hero to step in there and get us out of the pits!"

Apologies to all, I accidentally edited out the end of a sentence that makes a difference in the meaning of the sentence.

"The military has raised their standards quite a bit." Should have "compared to 50-60 years ago" after "bit" and before the period.

Rob,

I'm still waiting for you explanation of why you quote white supremacist websites for your information on the US military. Is this the official news organization of the Democratic party?

it pretty much pisses me off that a lot of you are saying that "A" students and children from well off homes would never join the military and that it is only an option for the academic losers. i guess it takes a retard to sign away their life to possibly die for yours. as a veteran of the US NAVY, as well as an "A" student from a well off home with a college degree, i take offense to you thinking that Iraq is an "option" for academic losers. if my brave brothers and sisters of America didn't opt to join the military and fight for freedom, then it would be your @$$ drafted to fight this war. you need to keep your mouth shut and thank your lucky stars when you lay your protected little head down at night that there is a marine/sailor/airman/soldier that has opted to stand post all night in Iraq so that you can get a good night sleep and kiss your wife/husband/children in the morning as you head off to your fancy job. my husband is a Naval Aircrewman and Rescue Swimmer with a college degree as well. He is currently deployed. he hasnt seen our daughter in 6 months. 6 MONTHS!! do you want to know how old the child is? 6 months and 6 days old. yeah that's right, she was just 6 days old when he was ripped away from us to serve his country so you dont have to. but he's just some stupid idiot loser on a ship which he calls a "steel coffin" who didnt have any options but to join the military. i didnt join the military because i couldnt do my homework. and i sure as h**l didnt join to be a hero or as some one put.... "people with little to lose and a "hero's welcome" to gain." little to lose huh? i guess i was just someone with little to lose when i joined and left my mom and dad and sisters and nephews behind when i was just 20 years old. not to mention my personal freedom. that is what you civilians dont understand about soldiers and sailors. when you sign that contract, you sign your life away to the government and you are their property. would you do that big shot genius with more education than us measly little military folk? no cause you dont have the b**ls. some of the most intellectual people i have ever met are in the military. some of the brightest and best this country has to offer where the men and women sitting right beside me in school being trained to do what we came into the military to do. for you to have the audacity to say that the military was their only option is disrespectful to someone who is giving up precious time with their families so that you can spend time with yours. my intelligent husband has watched our daughter grow up in pictures. how dare you insult him and mock his career choice. he could be your brother or sister out there on that ship. or he could be your son. dont you post your insulting, feeble minded comments about these brave, exceptional, outstanding men and women until you have been in their shoes. you dont send care packages with pillowcases from home half way around the world just so your spouse can remember the smell of home. you dont take your cell phone to the shower, bathroom, bed, and everywhere else with you because youre scared you might miss a call from your husband or wife that you havent talked to in months. my daughter wont know her daddy when he comes home and you wanna know why? so that you can take your daughter to school, kiss her and touch her skin and then go home and insult the idiots in the military. in my opinion, you are the academic losers. and to say that kerry is really talking about bush, he may have been in a way but think about what it is he's saying. there is no way around the fact that he is insulting the "dumb kids" who have to join and get stuck in Iraq even if he is saying it to get to bush. it is something that shouldnt have been said period. why didnt he say "do your homework or you'll get stuck working at mcdonald's'? this is stupid and now im mad. you all are crazy!

Stan,

Your venom astounds me.

So I quote white supremacist websites, huh? So, since I used the term "mentally defective," and that same term appeared in an article on a white supremacist website, that means I must have gotten it from there? I'm beginning to see how your sick mind works.

I did google the article, and wow, they used the term mentally defective. You caught me, stan. I couldn't stand up to your incomparable sleuthing, you've outed me for the white supremacist I am. No one can google quite like you can.

Kidding aside, you still haven't really responded rationally to anything I've said. Since my post calling you out as a troll, all you've done is prove the depth of your trollitude.

For being so skilled with the google over the internets, stan, you couldn't find out what "midshipman" refers to? A midshipman is a service member who is in the Naval ROTC. I was a midshipman, scheduled to graduate as a commissioned Ensign in the US Navy. I had to resign my commission due to an injury I sustained before graduation that disqualified me from military service. So while true I did not get the chance for active duty, I was in the military.

And about the raping and the murdering. I am simply referring to those soldiers who committed such a crime in Iraq. I never said all of our troops are like that. I'm simply saying that a military with lower recruiting standards is in worse shape than one with higher standards, like we used to have. I am upset that they had to lower the standards as a result of Bush's Iraq fiasco, therefore Bush is responsible for weakening our military. As a person who respects the military and realizes its value to our country, I am upset by this.

You seem to be OK with it, though. What does that say about you?

It says that you are a mindless Bush supporter. You can't think clearly. It's plainly obvious in your posts. Instead of responding rationally, you start ranting that I'm a white supremacist because you found a website that used a single term that I used. Any rational person would not make the same connection that you somehow made. You are clearly disturbed.

And instead of responding to the fact that the KBR detention center contract was first reported by the Dow Jones Marketwatch site, you just attack truthout.org. Whatever. The point is that the contract exists, yet you ignore it. Incredible.

And, simpleton stan, a joint resolution for the authorization of force is not the same as a declaration of war, as you said. Your information is not correct. Your only source seems to be your clouded mind, and possibly the national vanguard site you seem infatuated with.

And yes, you insult and don't respond rationally. You admit this, so you are indeed a troll.

And stan, you need a hug. I'm sorry your life sucks so hard that you need to come to the swamp and troll, feeling good about yourself when you can insult people with impunity. You're a sad example of existence.

"At best a blowhard with questionable sources."

Sounds like projection to me, stan. That in fact describes you perfectly. You're a blowhard because you don't argue the points, you just insult and put words into my mouth. And about sources, mine are marketwatch, abcnews, the us army website itself, and my own military experience when I refer to the respect I have for the military. Yours are your own twisted mind and the national vanguard, apparently.

And about the comma. He said, "when the history is finally written, it (the time between december and when he said these words) will be just a comma." Meaning, that all who sacrificed their lives in that time will be remembered as just a comma.

And that ambiguous insult aside, it's far more insulting that he sent them there without a plan for after the war, without the proper equipment, putting them in more danger than is necessary. It's clear to any rational person that the troops are not Bush's main concern. It's the oil.

stan, you're a sad little troll. i think you're the only one who agrees with you. and your responses to me have incited anger in others.

You come to the swamp, quoting white supremacist web sites and inciting anger. Are you a neo-nazi agitator, stan?

Rob,
“Your venom astounds me.”

No venom, I’m having a good time exposing you for what you are, and I’m sure a lot of things astound you.

“So I quote white supremacist websites, huh? So, since I used the term "mentally defective," and that same term appeared in an article on a white supremacist website that means I must have gotten it from there?”

You original post was almost word for word from the neo-nazi website. If you didn’t get your information from the National Vanguard, then I apologize. You didn’t plagiarize a white supremacist website; you just came to the exact same conclusion and used the same exact words they did. Great minds think alike I guess. Thanks for clearing that up.

“For being so skilled with the google over the internets, stan, you couldn't find out what "midshipman" refers to? A midshipman is a service member who is in the Naval ROTC. I was a midshipman, scheduled to graduate as a commissioned Ensign in the US Navy. I had to resign my commission due to an injury I sustained before graduation that disqualified me from military service. So while true I did not get the chance for active duty, I was in the military.”

I know what a midshipman is. Midshipmen are not in the US military, they are college students, or maybe cadets at Annapolis. You aren’t actually in the military until you take an oath of enlistment, THEN you become an officer in the Navy (usually on graduation day). When did you take the oath of enlistment Rob? A real midshipman would have known that. GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD. YOU WEREN’T IN THE MILITARY. If you want I’ll post MY military credentials. That way you’ll see the difference.

“It says that you are a mindless Bush supporter. You can't think clearly. It's plainly obvious in your posts. Instead of responding rationally, you start ranting that I'm a white supremacist because you found a website that used a single term that I used. Any rational person would not make the same connection that you somehow made. You are clearly disturbed “

Again, not just a single term, it was the most important term and the main thrust of your original post. “US Army to Recruit Mental Defectives” YOUR words not mine. Anyone can google them and see your sources and your line of thinking. What other sources appear when googled Rob, you tell me and everyone else.
“And instead of responding to the fact that the KBR detention center contract was first reported by the Dow Jones Marketwatch site, you just attack truthout.org. Whatever. The point is that the contract exists, yet you ignore it. Incredible.”

I’ll respond now. I don’t believe our government is building secret/covert detention centers to lock away innocent Americans. You’re paranoid and think President Bush is out to get you. I’ll tell you what; if you’re not a terrorist, and lay off the neo-nazi websites, I think you’ll be safe.

“And, simpleton stan, a joint resolution for the authorization of force is not the same as a declaration of war, as you said. Your information is not correct. Your only source seems to be your clouded mind, and possibly the national vanguard site you seem infatuated with.”

Thanks for the explanation of what a joint resolution is, and by the way, there was no declaration of war. Try buying a Civics book and reading it. You should have been taught a least little bit on how the government works in your military studies courses when you were almost in the military.

“And that ambiguous insult aside...”

I wasn’t trying to be ambiguous, I think I’ve made it pretty clear I think you are a piece of sh!t.

The difference between you and me is; I believe America is/is still a great country. I support the troops without insulting them. You believe America is wrong; you demean our soldiers, and probably believe we deserve what we get when we are attacked by terrorists. You feel the policies of the Bush administration given Muslim extremists the right to attack us and caused the rest of the world to hate us. You ignore the attacks that occurred before President Bush took over and want to use the war and our troops as a club to beat the President you hate more than the enemy.

That makes you a disgusting piece of sh!t.

Wow, stan. Your clever usage of the exclamation point is another thing that astounds me.

But thanks for clearing up how you feel about me, now I guess I'll just stop trying to gain your acceptance, which was my ultimate goal in life, because I respect you above all others, and I need your validation to realize my true existence.

I think you have me confused with some liberal that stole your girlfriend, because you obviously are harboring a lot of hate. It seems more clear now that most likely have that vanguard site bookmarked. Innocent google search? Not bloody likely. But the problem with you is that you're clearly directing that hate at what appears to you to be a legitimate target: An America hating liberal.

I don't think you can find anything in any of my posts that would cause you to conclude that I hate America. I just don't like that they had to reduce their recruiting standards because Bush is an idiot. He's weakening our country. The war in Iraq is worsening terrorism, not making us safer. Our own intelligence agencies say so.

Why doesn't that bother you, Stan? Shouldn't every good American be concerned when they think their country is being sabotaged, willingly or unwillingly, by its president?

I don't think anything we've done gives anyone the "right" to attack us, nor do I think we "deserve" it.

I don't want to use the war and our troops to "beat" the president with. He wants to do that to you, and you like it!!! You're a sadist!! You side with the man who is categorically the worst president in history. They lie (his administration) and use fear and the war to make you feel guilty for being a critic, or god forbid a dissenter. THAT'S WHAT THIS ADMINISTRATION DOES. Integrity doesn't matter, the troops don't matter, we don't matter. Just the oil, and unilateral executive power.

Oh, and thanks for telling me what my experience in ROTC actually was, stan. You see, I DID sign that little piece of paper you're talking about. I signed it when they gave me a scholarship to pay for my education. It said that when I graduate I will accept a commission as an ensign and serve 4 years active duty and four years enlisted. Like I said, I had to resign because I had an injury that disqualified me from service. The fact that you think I'm lying about it makes you a paranoid moron.

And really, do you think a Navy guy is gonna take any crap from someone from the Chair Force? Does the Chair Force even have PT?

Oh and please, post your credentials so we can all worship your selfish righteousness. They will validate everything you say, I'm sure, and you'll use them and look at them and think to yourself that they make you right.

Fact is you're deluded.

I'm sorry, but you're hating on the wrong person. I don't hate America. I just happen to think that this administration, based on it's track record and its opposition to the constitution, it's fascist laws and fearmongering politics, it's tax cuts for the wealthy, and it's allowing of energy companies to write energy legislation, is decidedly un-American.

If you could put down your hate and think clearly and objectively, you'd realize the same thing.

Robbo,

"stan, you're a sad little troll. i think you're the only one who agrees with you. and your responses to me have incited anger in others."
Posted by: Rob Norris | Nov 4, 2006 11:58:51 AM

Who did I anger? They aren't responding here. The only person that's getting angry is you. You're a military wanna-be that couldn't cut it. You say the standards to get in the military are low. They kept you out.

You say it's because you got injured. That must have been one hell of a big boo-boo considering there are soldiers that have been returned to active duty after having limbs blown off.

Military service is best left to big boys and girls. I respect you for wanting to go into the service. You couldn't cut it. Don't take it out on the people who are able to serve.

"So while true I did not get the chance for active duty, I was in the military."

WTF!?! Were you on "inactive duty" when you were in the 'miltary'? Reservists are active duty when they are serving. Some people are in the IRR (Individual Ready Reserve. What special status of active duty were you?

And really, do you think a Navy guy is gonna take any crap from someone from the Chair Force? Does the Chair Force even have PT?

Oh and please, post your credentials so we can all worship your selfish righteousness. They will validate everything you say, I'm sure, and you'll use them and look at them and think to yourself that they make you right.
Posted by: Rob Norris

Rob,
Here you are:

"Chair Force"

That's okay, Keep the insults to the military coming, that's what I expect from you.

I didn’t join the military because I had to. My dad and mom were both in the Air Force (Chair Force to Rob). I decided at an early age I wanted to serve. My wife was in the Air Force. My brother is an Army Major at the pentagon. My father spent two tours in Vietnam, I was in the 1st Gulf War, and my brother spent time in Kosovo and was imbedded with Afghan forces, training them, for nine months. That’s about 60 combined years of military service; none of that time was spent in an ROTC college classroom.

I joined the Air Force in 1978 and retired as a Master Sergeant in 1998. After basic training I went to the Defense Language Institute in Monterey CA and learned Arabic. I went to a ground station on Crete and then decided I wanted to fly. I went back the Monterey and took an Intermediate Arabic course, went to survival school and started flying. In 1984 I went TDY to Ft Meade MD (NSA) and learned Farsi. I flew in support of operations in Lebanon supporting the Marines and in the Persian Gulf supporting Operation Ernest Will, when we (the US) reflagged Kuwaiti oil tankers. In 1986 I was flying in support of Eldorado Canyon (when we bombed Libya). I have about 2400 flight hours; approximately 450 are combat hours from Desert Storm in 1991.

I’ve been stationed in Greece, TX, CA, NE, and my last duty station was Ft Gordon GA, where I was a SCO (Senior Collection Officer) on one of the flights (flights as in a military unit, section, flight, squadron, etc....) I’ve had temporary assignments in Sudan, Ft Meade, and Saudi Arabia, and other places.

I’ve been awarded the Defense Meritorious Service Medal, eight (8) Air Medals, Aerial Achievement Medal, three (3) AF Commendation Medals, AF Achievement Medal, Joint Meritorious Unit Commendation, three (3) AF Outstanding Unit Awards with Combat ‘V’ device, Combat Readiness Medal, six (6) Good Conduct Medals, National Defense Ribbon, Armed Forces Expeditionary Ribbon, Southwest Asia Service Medal with two (2) bronze star devices, Overseas Tour Ribbon, five (5) Longevity Ribbons, NCO PME Ribbon, Basic Training Honor Grad Ribbon, Small Arms Expert Ribbon, AF Training Ribbon, Liberation of Kuwait Medal from Kuwait, and the Liberation of Kuwait Medal from Saudi Arabia.

When a service member (real service member) leaves the military or retires, they get a DD214. It shows the type of discharge, it lists the rank at the time of separation, it lists decorations, and other information. At least that’s what’s on my DD214; what’s on yours Rob?

So Rob, let’s end this dick-dance and settle this once and for all. I’ll send you my DD214 if you’ll send me yours. Let me know where to send it and I’ll overnight a copy to you on Monday.

Put up or shut up.

Wow, I feel so special...

I'm being swift-boated.

(sigh)

you still haven't posted your credentials, hero. not like it matters since they're unverifiable anyway.

you probably spent your time in the service counting rivets on f-16's.

and in response to who you angered:

this is stupid and now im mad. you all are crazy!
Posted by: shannon | Nov 3, 2006 11:52:05 PM

that's what happens when a partisan hack starts attacking a critic and slinging accusations of nazi-ism. and for the record, the only words that my post and your favorite website's article shared were "mentally" and "defective," so if your claim is that my post was "word for word," it seems that, in a very special ironic twist, you would in fact be mentally defective yourself.

stan, when the dems take over congress and impeach bush and his cabinet, what are you going to do with all of your campaign buttons, ya mindless partisan hack?

" I DID sign that little piece of paper you're talking about. I signed it when they gave me a scholarship to pay for my education. It said that when I graduate I will accept a commission as an ensign and serve 4 years active duty and four years enlisted. Like I said, I had to resign because I had an injury that disqualified me from service. The fact that you think I'm lying about it makes you a paranoid moron."
Posted by: Rob Norris

You signed a piece of paper promising to join the Navy and serve four years commisioned after you graduated OR enlisted if you couldn't complete the program.

If an ROTC student on scholarship (or a nonscholarship students in the advanced course ((final two years of ROTC)) can't complete the ROTC program or is disenrolled (could be a number of reasons), you might be required to serve your obligated time as enlisted. Medical disqualification could be a reason to nullify any service obligation. But until the time you graduate and are commissioned or enlist, you are absolutely not in the military. Promising to be in the military and actually serving are two separate things.

You can resign a commssion if you are an officer in the military. But you can't resign from the military when you're not in it.

Sorry, no matter how many times you say you were in the 'military', it doesn't make it true.

BTW, didn't they teach you any of this stuff?

"you still haven't posted your credentials, hero. not like it matters since they're unverifiable anyway"

"stan, when the dems take over congress and impeach bush and his cabinet, what are you going to do with all of your campaign buttons, ya mindless partisan hack?"
Posted by: Rob Norris

My credentials are posted and I offered to verify them. Someone who counts rivets on F-16s is at least really in the military.

You're not being swift-boated. Your statements and 'military' credentials are being questioned/challanged.

When the Dems take over, they have two years to make changes. I will support them (after they are elected) also.

And my apologies to Sharron who thinks we are ALL crazy.

Rob,

It's almost 0100 (that's military time). I'm beat and I'm going to bed.

I look forward to your intelligent explanation in the morning of how you were on active-inactive duty while you were a college student and had no military rank. You can google a US military rank chart and see there is rank called 'midshipman'.

Good night honey

Rob,

It's almost 0100 (that's military time). I'm beat and I'm going to bed.

I look forward to your intelligent explanation in the morning of how you were on active-inactive duty while you were a college student and had no military rank. You can google a US military rank chart and see there is rank called 'midshipman'.

Good night honey

Posted by: Stan | Nov 5, 2006 12:59:15 AM

Oops, I left out an important word. I should have said there is 'no' rank called midshipman.

Don't get excited Rob, you still weren't in the military.

Stan,

I was in ROTC. It's pretty simple. Are midshipman in ROTC or at the Academy "not in the military?"

If not, what are they? Pretending to be in the military? Do they not answer to their CO and other superior commissioned officers who run the unit? Do they not get billets? Is there not PT? Is there not muster every day? Do they not go on summer cruises on the Roosevelt or train with the Marines in CA? Do they not need to maintain their uniforms?

Sadly stan, you forgot the most important thing:

Midshipman are subject to the UCMJ. That makes them about as "in the military" as you can get.

Just because they don't get combat deployments doesn't make them "not in the military."

Your comments are an incredible insult to every midshipman serving right now and they exemplify the height of your ignorance.

Why do you hate our midshipman, stan?

Rob, buddy,

You still there or is this your weekend for military manuevers?

and in response to who you angered:

"this is stupid and now im mad. you all are crazy!
Posted by: shannon | Nov 3, 2006 11:52:05 PM

that's what happens when a partisan hack starts attacking a critic and slinging accusations of nazi-ism. and for the record, the only words that my post and your favorite website's article shared were "mentally" and "defective," so if your claim is that my post was "word for word," it seems that, in a very special ironic twist, you would in fact be mentally defective yourself."
Posted by: Rob Norris

Shannon was mad at you and Senator Kerry. She was a US Navy vet. She was in the real Navy not just a NROTC midshipman who got booted out. She was angered by the insults to the intelligence of the military.

Good move Retard. Rob, just between us 'military' guys, was the injury that kept you out of the Navy a brain injury?

Stan,

"I was in ROTC. It's pretty simple. Are midshipman in ROTC or at the Academy "not in the military?"

No, Here's one example. If an enlisted member (soneone already in the miltary) receives an ROTC scholarship he or she is SEPARATED early from the 'military' to accept the scholarship.

They still have a military obligation (contract)as enlisted if they fail to complete the ROTC program, or as commisioned officers when they graduate.

Separated from the military means they are not in the miltary.

"Your comments are an incredible insult to every midshipman serving right now and they exemplify the height of your ignorance.

Why do you hate our midshipman, stan?"

I don't. Sorry to disappoint you.

"Midshipman are subject to the UCMJ. That makes them about as "in the military" as you can get"

Notre Dame ROTC students Have a CUCMJ, is that kind of what you had?

Check this out Rob and tell me if it looks familiar.

--The CUCMJ is a cadet tool, available to maintain appropriate standards of conduct within the University of Notre Dame Fightin’ Irish Battalion. The CUCMJ is to be used in concert with other complementary standards of conduct, to include The University of Notre Dame du Lac: A Guide to Student Life (University student handbook) and the Army Senior Reserve Officers’ Training Corps Cadet Contract for Non-Scholarship and Scholarship Cadets (DA Forms 597 and 597-3).

Cadets should be reminded that while conduct outlined within the CUCMJ may not affect their status with the University or within the ROTC program, conduct not outlined within the CUCMJ may, in fact, serve to do so. As an example, a cadet’s failure to regularly attend class – conduct that does not implicate the CUCMJ – may result in withdrawal from the University, which would likewise trigger the initiation of ROTC disenrollment proceedings. Cadets should be mindful of their separate obligations to these other complementary standards of conduct.--

You see Rob, 'real' miltary people are subject to the 'real' UCMJ, not the one that includes complementary standards of conduct found in --A Guide to Student Life.--

"you still haven't posted your credentials, hero"
Posted by: Rob Norris

They were posted 18 hours ago and still no response.

--When a service member (real service member) leaves the military or retires, they get a DD214. It shows the type of discharge, it lists the rank at the time of separation, it lists decorations, and other information. At least that’s what’s on my DD214; what’s on yours Rob?

So Rob, let’s end this dick-dance and settle this once and for all. I’ll send you my DD214 if you’ll send me yours. Let me know where to send it and I’ll overnight a copy to you on Monday.--

No response to this either. Too bad.

I'll tell you what, when you send the address you want my DD214 to go to, I'll include my address. You can come by any time (I mean that) and we'll discuss military stategery. I'll have a beer and I'll make a pitcher of virgin Shirley Temples for you.

I was in ROTC. It's pretty simple. Are midshipman in ROTC or at the Academy "not in the military?"

If not, what are they? Pretending to be in the military? Do they not answer to their CO and other superior commissioned officers who run the unit? Do they not get billets? Is there not PT? Is there not muster every day? Do they not go on summer cruises on the Roosevelt or train with the Marines in CA? Do they not need to maintain their uniforms?
Posted by: Rob Norris

My son is 15 and in JROTC. He answers to his CO and other superiors that run the unit, He has to perform PT and muster once a week. He wears a uniform.

So, I guess he is in the military too. If he goes to college and takes ROTC there, he'll be a 5-star general when he gets out. Cool.

He hasn't had any summer cruises on the Roosevelt yet, but he did go on an Alaskan cruise with his grandmother a couple of years ago. What kind of 'military credit does he get for that?