Hey, I wonder if Obama met with his hero the mayor who was no where to be found when Katrina hit, He did nothing to help just blame others, just like the democrats. cliff

Only 6:30 a.m. and Sen. Obama's press office (aka the "Swamp") is hard at work.

So far the Obamafest record is five postings in one day. Let's see if Mr. Silva et al can break that record.

And for those not familiar with D.C., a "field hearing" means a photo op for the Senators. All paid for by the taxpayers.

finally someone is talking about what should be the most important issue of the election. rebuilding new orleans and the gulf coast os far more important than complaining about iraq. I am glad to see Barack stepping up and forcing the issue back to the front page after the government and the media have given up and moved on to other things.

All right I like Obama but this is the Obama all the time Swamp. I am beginning to think Swamp whats Obama for President.

Once again Senator Obama and his staff are misleading the public with the news media's help.

First, FEMA by Federal Law could not entire Louisiana to setup before the storm because the Governor REFUSED any help, and did not invite them to help, even after FEMA called the Governor.

Second, the diseaster of Katrina in New Orleans could have been lessoned if the STATE, PARISH, AND THE CITY OF NEW ORLEANS followed their own diseater plans. They didn't.

Third, the citzens of New Orleans had three days warning before the storm. They had three days to get out. FEMA, and the Red Cross have always stated and advertised in areas prone to diseasters to be prepared. Even more so since 9/11. You can get the list for a 72 hour kit from these agencies, from the net, the library, or any government building. There is no excuse for not having one. They cost less than $50 for a family of four.

Four, It is apparent that Senator Obama and his staff have yet to visit the FEMA website. Even after I wrote to them, when Obama first started his criticism of FEMA and President Bush, to visit the site before making any judgements. If a person wants to be President, he better know what he is really talking about before making stupid comments that are completely wrong.

hdr
Community Emergency Response Team Member and Instructor

Seems to me that Obama, unwittingly, has gotten to the heart of the matter of the problem here: the poverty and crime that existed in New Orleans before Katrina hit.

If another great Chicago Fire were to happen today the south and west sides of Chicago would be similarly devastated and experience the same population loss because politicians and citizens have simply ignored the ongoing drug war, crime, and poverty in those areas because it didn't affect them, or any of the constituents they choose to serve, at the ballot box.

p.s. Obama should take a stand on other New Orleans issues, such as how the rebuilding is taking shape, if he wants to be a critic. Doesn't it concern him that no new natural barriers, such as urban green space, are being erected as a buffer to future hurricanes? Or that USA Today has reported that a large portion of the construction to date has been built exactly as it was before the hurricane? With no stronger, higher building stilts or stronger, bonded roofing tile? Will Obama take a stand on the now rejected reconstruction plan forwarded by the Urban Land Institute?

An addendume to that last post: Chicago responded to the fires that devastated it with some of the nation's most stringent building codes in the nation, emphasizing the use of masonry over steel frames in both housing and commercial development to seriously restrict the spread of fires. Without wood fires have a much more difficult time spreading to neighboring structures. If Nagin is serious about rebuilding New Orleans the right way, he should seriously consider more natural buffers to the flood waters that caused most of the damage from Katrina.

These comment posts are a bunch of racist hogwash. Katrina was the single most devastating natural disaster in American history. As many people died as did in 9/11, and infrastructure was obliterated. Cities and states do not have the organizational means to deal with crisis at this level. From wildfires, to floods and earthquakes, when a state needs help they declare an Emergency and the federal government steps in to lend what my tax dollars pay for (and I can all but guarantee I pay a whole lot more in that department than anyone else posting here). I paid for an adequate response in tax dollars, and then was forced to pay tens of thousands more in donations because my tax dollars were improperly handled.

The mayor of New Orleans did a fine job, which is why he was re-elected, despite an aggressive attempt by the RNC to ensure he fell short. Unlike Giuliani following 9/11, Nagin wasn't blessed with a president and national republican party in power -- eager to insert legend and myth in place of fact to stoke their own leadership wherever possible.

Stop attempting to stifle discussion about Katrina. What Bush and "Brownie" allowed happen in the poorest parts of the South, and especially in New Orleans, was sick. We need to be open about what happened, we need to learn from our mistakes, lest one day we find ourselves on the receiving end of ignorance. Tides turn.

hdr . One thing you seemed to miss. Under Dennis Hastert and the Republican Congress they REFUSED to fund FEMA for new reinforcement of the leeves.They cut funding by 40percent.

hdr....I see by your credits at the bottom you have knowledge as to disaters. However, I'm not sure you may have that much experience in hurricanes.
First FEMA sent a report to Bush in early 2001. In it they reported three things likely to happen in the near future. One of these things was the threat of a disaster in New Orleans due to hurricane/flooding and the levees.

In your first example you say FEMA could not come into the city. I highly doubt that a plan to take FEMA into the city before a storm was or is a wise plan. Your second point is that they did not head the warnings. I have lived on the Outer Banks of NC for over 22 years. Anyone who lives with the threat of a hurricane can tell you, you never know what the path will be and to what quadrant of the storm you're on makes all the difference. Plus where do you go? Many people don't have the money to just up and leave on the chance it will hit because it costs money that they don't have. These people live day to day not knowing where the rent or food money is coming from. Then even when they realize it "is" coming it is already too late. your simple remark of it's only $50 means nothing to you but to some it's a fortune. If this report was brought to the presidents attention in early 2001
and was ignored, what does that say about the presidents ability?

In the end...I feel anyone who thinks the blame need go to the victims is making a terrible mistake and it is people like you and your post that lead many to believe that. Maybe instead of making the point what Obama know or doesn't know,
I ask where is the outrage as to our president turning a blind eye in the wake of FEMS's report.

While Barack "H" Obama is in New Orleans he should explain "personal responsibility"-If a really,really,really big hurricane is coming and you have three days prior notice...L-E-A-V-E!
And if you want to live in a city that's built 6 feet below sea level,the chances of flooding are greater than if you lived above sea level,go figure.
Paulo

I was a little boy when the tornado swept through the southern suburbs in 1967. I have watched coverage of all of the major hurricanes before Katrina. I watched the coverage after the S.F. earthquake. My observation is this. I do not recall any natural disaster in which I saw as many people sitting around, waiting for free handouts as I have in N.O. Months and months later, there were still people sitting on their roofs, waiting. In all other disasters I have witnessed in my life, I have always seen the affected residents working to pick up and move on. I have not seen one disaster take so long for people to recover from. Anybody remember the women who was put up FREE for 1 year at a church in the area. When they told her they needed her to move, she was aghast. Where would she go, what would she do?, she asked. Well, if you had one whole year, living free off the charity of others and did NOTHING to begin rebuilding, you deserve to be in dire straights. If you just sat, making no plans,then you made your own bed. Too many people had opportunities, but it was not the free ride they wanted. People are deserving of assistance and charity during such disasters, but this does not abslove them of the responsibility of working as hard as the charity and assistance in putting their life back together again.
I, in no way, presume to know the pain and suffering caused by Katrina. I have had my own disasters in life, and received God sent assistance. But in addition to this, I needed to work to put my lifeback together. I needed to take steps, work hard and struggle to recover. It would not have been proper for me to just sit back and ask, "what do I get next?"

"First, FEMA by Federal Law could not entire Louisiana to setup before the storm because the Governor REFUSED any help, and did not invite them to help, even after FEMA called the Governor."

Wrong, HDR. She made the request 2 days before landfall.

http://www.gov.state.la.us/index.cfm?md=newsroom&tmp=detail&catID=1&articleID=778&navID=3

hdr.

Your credentials as CERT member and instructor must not call for reading efficacy and comprehension. Sen. Obama clearly states his issue with The President (I don't recall seeing the letters FEMA once in the article, why are you coddling them?)was his leadership AFTER the tragedy of Katrina. The mishandling of reconstruction and rebuilding that was promised by this administration, which some believe is a planned event that will lead to a demographic change in not only New Orleans but the Gulf Coast area at large, is indefensible. For you to still be trying to explain away the failures of ALL parties involved before the storm and flood damage is moot and tired. All four of your points are irrelevant to this discussion and the third one is a baseless attempt to blame those that were victimized by this natural disaster and later by the incompetence of this administration. Just as an aside, do you aim this sort of contempt to those who year after year brave hurricanes in Florida and refuse to leave their businesses and property, or to those who year after year battle mudslides and brush fires in California and refuse to abandon their homes? This country, the insurance industry, and our Government continually give these citizens our sympathy, attention and income until they are made whole even though they make the conscious decision to build and re-build homes in areas that are known alleys for natural disaster. The people of the Gulf and victims of Katrina deserve this same consideration and service from our elected officials and their charges.

Joe. Did I miss the racist comments? I can't seem to find them. Please post again and point them out for me.

And you are wrong, very wrong. Nagin failed just as miserably as, if not more than, everyone else involved in this mess.

I'm glad that the Democratic candidates for President actually care about New Orleans.

The W. administration didn't care,they figure that all those people are just black people who don't vote anyway and if they do vote they vote Democratic,so screw'em.

Katrina was the beginning of the end for the GOP.

Paulo,

Why won't you answer my question?

WHY SHOULD I VOTE FOR A REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT IN 08?

Hurry up before mommy kicks you off the computer.

Oh yeah,what's your middle name?....Kitten?

Jeff, no name,

Good posts. Jeff's comments on the rebuilding are especially cogent.

In the scramble to find faults to pin on the Bush administration (as if that were necessary at this point) many people here routinely miss the fact that there's been a lot of screwing up, for many years, and that the blame can be spread around.

Consider this: Katrina was a disaster waiting to happen. A lot of people (including me) knew several years ago that sooner or later a Cat 4 or 5 would hit N.O. directly, and the result would be an unparalleled disaster.

So if somebody like me knew that (I'm not a natural scientist or civil engineer) why didn't Nagin or his predecessors know it? And if the structural problems were not being addressed, why was there not AT LEAST a viable evacuation and relief plan in place?

So I agree with Jeff. Obama and others should take a stand on other vital issues, such as:
1) how the rebuilding is being done (that is, poorly, by many accounts) as well as:
2) what are the plans for evacuation, rescue and relief.
Point 2 is especially vital in light of the fact that point 1 is going wrong.

RobS-

The reason some of the people in New Orleans were waiting for free "hand-outs" is because almost half of the state is on welfare and that's all they know.
If they can't eat,the government gives them food.
If they can't afford housing,the government gives them money to pay the rent,heat and electric.
If a hurricane causes a flood (even with three days prior notice) ,sit on the roof,wave a white flag and a helicopter will come.
This is actually the fault of the democratic party for all this suffering,because they take away personel responsibility and motivation to make a better life for themselves.
The government is not your parent.
Paulo

More people died in Katrina than 9/11? C'mon people, try not to get too disconnected to reality in your political rants.

There were a total of 1,836 reported dead as a result Katrina. Two of which were as far away from New Orleans as Ohio. An additional 705 were reported missing from Katrina but many of these people have since been found. Still, if we take the total of 2,541, and compare it to the people MURDERED (not victims of a natural disaster) in 9/11 it's still not even close. 2,973 (without an additional 24 reported missing) is the lowest estimate of deaths caused by the 9/11 murderers. 2,602 died in the World Trade Center alone, already more than the total of Katrina. 88, 59, 125, 59 and 40 Americans were murdered in the planes of 9/11 and at the Pentagon.

Joe, I can tell by your post that you can't add anything substantive to the conversation, but rather simply scream "racism" at the drop of a hat. But try to at the very least get your facts straight.

I think Paulo's middle name must be something really awful, as a lot of us have asked him what it is and he won't answer.

Maybe it's Satan.

The ignorance surrounding Katrina is appalling, as epitomized by "hdr /Community Emergency Response Team Member and Instructor."

The federal government was well aware of what would happen to New Orleans in the event of a major hurricane. In addition to the numerous publications that did extensive reports on it (The New York Times, Scientific American, The Times-Picayune in New Orleans, etc.), FEMA did its own exercise called Hurricane Pam just a few months before Katrina. In it, the agency not only outlined what would happen, but its own responsibilities - almost none of which it lived up to. Also in that report is a clear statement that New Orleans would not have the resources to deal with such a storm.

In the end, a government that got water to tsunami victims half a world away within a couple
of days, left its own citizens to suffer for much longer. Sure, numerous mistakes were made by local and state officials, but anyone with a grain of sense knows that city and state officials do not have the resources to deal with a disaster on such a scale. And the federal government had already acknowledged that in its own report. I suggest every go read it.

As for the contention that Blanco turned down the White House's first offer for federal troops, she did so because those troops would not have been given law enforcement powers, which she needed them to have, and she would have to cede power. So while her action was quickly reported and spun negatively by the White House, it seems to be less widely known that other governors (including the governor of Mississippi) all very quickly told the White House that kind of action was out-of-line and not to try anything like that with them in the future.

As for the people who said there was a 3-day warning: dead wrong. I live in New Orleans. And the first I heard of this hurricane coming our way was very late Friday night. I know several people who knew nothing of it until Saturday afternoon. As a matter of fact, The Times-Picayune's only mention of Katrina on Friday was the fact that it was Cat 1 or 2 storm, heading up the Florida coast. The hurricane hit in the wee hours of Monday morning. Hardly three days warning.

As for the whole question of New Orleans and rebuilding, the city has been here for well over 200 years and this is the first time it has suffered a disaster of such magnitude. And why did this happen now? 1)The destruction of the wetlands surrounding New Orleans, mostly in pursuit of oil and gas for everyone in this country, has ruined its natural defenses; and 2) Crummy engineering on the part of the United States Army Corps of Engineers. Did you all miss the report where they admitted culpability?

There is no reason why New Orleanians should not have to build smart. But it is ridiculous that New Orleans is being held to standards that no community in the rest of country has been held to after a disaster. The government rebuilt Anchorage after it was destroyed by an earthquake, a mere few years after Alaska became a state. Other communities hit by such disasters have been helped - including towns along the Mississippi in the midwest who were even moved after flooding.

The hurricane itself did very little damage to New Orleans. It was the aftermath of broken levees and governmental inaction that led to the scenes you saw on your television set. And it's time people sat up and quit using as an excuse the actions of a few bad apples to condemn the entire city. (I might note that there are numerous people from Hurricane Andrew in Florida who are still living in free housing). The city was failed, pure and simple. The question is this: what are we going to do about it?

Personally, I want a government that devotes its resources to protecting its own citizens - not forcing a losing battle in another part of the world. Homeland security, indeed.

Paulo again you show no since in your post. Half the People in NO lost everything they had. So you in your Right wing form go after people who suffered a loss. You have no heart and you are a danger to people around you SEEK HELP NOW

Leo, I'm not a civil engineer or urban planner, either, but I can tell you the rebuilding is going both slowly and badly. I was just there two weeks ago and the FEMA tarps still cover about half the roofs in the lower 9th Ward and the devastation is still evident from Slidell all the way to Mobile, Ala.

There were 8 murders in the first 7 days of 2007 in New Orleans, attesting to the fact that crime and poverty are still huge problems in the recovering city. The vice industries seem to be the only thing prospering. Strip clubs are starting to outnumber the taverns on Bourbon Street and the drug trade is operating pretty much out in the open due to a worker shortage in both the legitimate nightlife and police sectors.

Blanco's approval ratings are plummeting and although Nagin was reelected he's starting to get a lot of pressure about the pace of reconstruction, continued price gouging and other issues hampering rebuilding.

Then there's this little problem that Louisiana's sinking into the Gulf of Mexico at the rate of two credit card-widths a day. It's a mess with a capital M.

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/01/02/Worldandnation/New_Orleans_reconstru.shtml

The Republican Mindset After Katrina:

George W. Bush:

"Brownie,you're doin a heck of a job"

But Laura, wouldn't you agree that building a buffer to future flooding, such as large areas of urban greenspace in the worst flooded areas (lower 9th ward, parts of Slidell), as the Urban Land Institute has suggested, would be a good way to rebuild New Orleans so that this never happens again? 1/3 of New Orleans' population is gone. The city will need a smaller footprint, anyway. Why is the local and state government so resistant to any barriers other than rebuilt levees?

p.s. I agree 100% about the wetlands, but since all evidence shows that Louisiana is sinking rather than staying stable, they can't be counted on as protection from any future storms.

Again baby boomers, take the politics out of the situation. Should capital/tax base investment be made to land that is uncategorically slipping into the Gulf? Taking the fact that it once was a great Southern urban area, I think we all would conclude the same thing. How about moving the city footprint further north? Sadly, this issue will be politicized, solved incorrectly, and forgotten about.

George W. Bush was told well BEFORE Katrina hit New Orleans that flooding in the area could be a world class disaster,W. was also told to go after Bin Laden BEFORE 9/11 happened.

He choose to do...nothing but read "My Pet Goat".

I'm waiting for one of the "intellectual" Republican posters to blame Katrina on Bill Clinton.

Come on guys....you can do it,where's that team spirit of yours that I love so much?

How best to rebuild New Orleans and the surrounding area is an incredibly complex question. It involves the Federal Government, State Government, Parish Governments, Municipal Governments, neighborhood groups, businesses and common citizens, just to name a few.

To get all those groups working together in an effective way will take leadership. Considering the complexities of the overlapping jusridictions and interests, that leadership woul best come from the national level. President George W. Bush has clearly shown he has no interest in the problem and will not provide that leadership. We need to find someone to step up.

Dale--

You're right Dale Peters,I do need help. I have a meeting later on tonight to seek help.....
With my bank to buy another apartment building in Crestwood,Il.
Don't worry Dale,it's above sea level and hard working,motivated young blue collar people live there...
Paulo

I'm surprised you scumbag Republicans don't blame the victims of 9/11 for working in the World Trade Center

With my bank to buy another apartment building in Crestwood.Il.
Don't worry Dale,it's above sea level and hard working,motivated young blue collar people live there.
Paulo
Posted by Paulo Jan 29,2007 1:22:19 PM

Gee Paulo I didn't know that being above sea level in Crestwood,Il. was a problem,thanks for letting us in on your secret.

Aren't you supposed to be working the drive thru window at Mickey D's today?

Paulo-

None of your renters have a name like "Hussein" do they?

Folks get a life, The problem is all of the government not just one party is involved, or did you forget that it takes congress and senate to vote yea or nay!! Then it takes another act of congress to send the money and then once the money is alocated the local goverment decides to hold on to the left over dollars to decide and then the blame goes to the top. But the issue is the local government. They pocket the mula and then wonder where is it??? CROOKS. Oh don't forget also, billions of dollars were sent there already. Where is it!!!!! CROOKS!!! Hell as far as I care rebuilding N.O. is not worth the money or the headachs it's causing. Now N.O. proper is worth keeping for the historic and history, but not the suburbs.
So thats my point and view, now isn't it nice we can express our thoughts without being ass holes!

Katrina hit a lot of places other than New Orleans. Most of those places have rebuilt, and rebuilt with a lot less money than has been poured into New Orleans. The one place that keeps complaining--New Orleans--is the one place that has a Dem governor and a Dem mayor, officials distinguished by their incompetence during the hurricane and by their frantic efforts to shift the blame to someone else.

Yes, yes, yes, go around calling people who disagree politically with you scumbags. I'm sure that'll really raise the level of discourse and get the reconstruction on the right track. I can't imagine why partisan politics is tearing the country apart like it is. Could it be acrimonious name-calling and everything that comes with it?

Well, Blanco's up for reelection soon. The people of Louisiana will have a choice to make.

Bruce,
I'll repeat this slowly. The other areas hit by Katrina suffered mostly wind damage. New Orleans levees were topped and parts of the city were underwater. Different types of damage on a larger scale for New Orleans. Do you know the difference between high winds and high water?

Jeff,
You have a better name for people who blame victims?

I didn't know blaming victims for being at the wrong place at the wrong time was a Republican or Democrat issue, Jeff?

Well Paulo that nice. Our Renters have stayed in our Apt's for about 15 years. We have no bills our is paid for. The Money I made paid for this Apts oh ya the money I made serving in the Military. Owned since 1972 hmmm.

Bruce, don't delude yourself. All is NOT well outside of NOLA.

"It is in the small towns along the Mississippi Gulf Coast where the constipated spending system is most apparent. Bay St. Louis, a town once dotted with ancient oaks and antebellum homes, remains a museum of disaster. The city lost virtually its entire underground sewer system and much of its gas grid. It needs $100,000 in street signs and nearly $4 million in secondary road repairs."

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/article_print/SB116985264029589514-lMyQjAxMDE3NjI5NzgyNTcyWj.html

Some of the victims (not all) deserve the blame they're getting. The crime rate has risen in Houston due to Katrina refugees who've flocked there. That's not a statement about any individuals, just a recorded fact. The woman who was put up in a suburban church definitely felt entitled to more hand-outs than charity dictated. So yes, a better word would be "dead on" or "correct" in some cases. You're right that the vast majority of Katrina victims aren't like the examples I stated above and some posters are wrong to paint with such a wide swath, but two wrongs don't make a right.

And Jethro, I was just there and I can personally attest that you're misinformed about the devastation in Mississippi and Alabama. It was much more than just "mostly wind damage." A casino barge was carried onto dry land by a storm surge in Biloxi. The barge landed on a museum designed by Frank Gehry and wiped it out.

Surge is the water a hurricane pushes up as it approaches shore. A number of factors contribute to its size: wind strength, air pressure, the size of a storm's eye, the distance hurricane force winds extend from the center, the speed at which it comes ashore and the angle at which it hits. In Mississippi state planners are marking the surge to plan for future hurricane defenses (something that's being ignored in Louisiana).

One of the surge markers recorded near Gulfport is a whole half-mile from the Gulf of Mexico. Estimates have ranged from a 35-foot surge in Waveland to at least 15 feet along the entire Mississippi coast. The surge demolished scores of buildings near the Gulf (including Gehry's) and led to extensive inland flooding. Areas were covered in water that never before were known to flood. The surge has been recorded at as much as 10 feet high as far away as the Florida panhandle.

I promise you, damage to oceanfront property from a 10-foot storm surge is not "mostly wind damage." Plus, Katrina generated 125-mph winds. Damage from them - and their accompanying storm surge - would be every bit as bad as the flooding in some parts of New Orleans because the surge would carry enough water to create flash flooding.

The reason Mississippi is rebuilding faster is because the state government stepped in to provide relief funds to individual business and homeowners who have yet to receive insurance checks. That hasn't happened in Louisiana. That's one of the reasons that there are still boarded up windows even in buildings that showed only modest damage in New Orleans. If insurance companies are dragging their feet on payments and prices are skyrocketing, it makes economical sense to just wait for the insurance to come through rather than pay ridiculous prices out of pocket.

Janet, I never said it was. Jethro's the one who used the term "scumbag republicans."

I see the Swamp has come up with a new twist to make its Obama-promotion a little less obvious. The original 6:30 am. post--a press release of what Obama was to say later--is updated at 12:42 with a photo of Obama actually saying the words. Doubtless we'll be treated next to a photo of Obama walking out of the room after the remarks. And next an article about Obama's thoughts on the speech. And next an article about how Obama then walked his pet dachsund. And next ...

On a related note, isn't it about time for even the Obama Press flacks at the "Swamp" to get rid of the last year's "Obama in Africa" video/audio archive, thoughtfully positioned on the right of the "Swamp home page?

Apparently I've missed something. When has Jeff blamed the victims?

Tony, I agree Mississippi is nowhere near rebuilt from the hurricane. Aside from the gambling barges I could see precious little that was rebuilt.

"Leo T."

You've been missing your real post name but that's about all.

Katrina can't be W.'s fault,it has to be the victims fault.
I'm guessing that W. hasn't been wrong about anything since he's been in office.......or has he?

Tony--
I'll look into that,thanks for the heads-up!
Paulo

Leo T (Juanito),
I'll revise my comment. Only scumbags would blame victims and it was directed at Rob S, Paulo, hdr and others.

"Leo T."

You've been missing your real post name but that's about all.

Katrina can't be W.'s fault,it has to be the victims fault.
I'm guessing that W. hasn't been wrong about anything since he's been in office.......or has he?
Posted by: Leo S. | Jan 29, 2007 3:37:36 PM

My guess is that is the cue ball sharp wit of our beloved John E. Not one word of that made sense.

Does somebody want to try again? An adult, maybe?

The question is: when have the victims been blamed?

jethro,

I didn't read "blaming the victim" in Jeff's commentary. Thanks for the clarification.

-Leo (not Juanito) T

First, I thought these posts were screened for decorum or lack thereof. Passionate debate is great, but vacuous, mean-spirited name-calling serves no constructive or edifying purpose. Even the barbaric MMA has rules, i.e. no biting, eye-gouging, testicle squeezing, etc.

Not mentioning Katrina/NO in the State of the Union Babble was yet another big-time blunder by King "I'm the Decision-Maker" George, which was the key point of Obama's just criticism. What clear signal did his blatant omission send to our fellow americans in the Gulf, across the country and around the globe? How could anyone, even ultra right-wing conserves, disagree that he comitted a T.O. on third and goal. (Dropped pass for you non-sports types) It certainly doesn't leave the impression that rebuilding the gulf is a front-burner issue; and--no doubt--it should be. Playing the Blame-Game, trying to pin-it on the donkey or elephant reminds of the provebial hamster running in a wheel...

Thought of the day: How about maintaining the focus on constructive ideas? And I agree with one poster, the solution to this problem is multi-layered, and the leadership should flow from the top. But when that leadership is AWOL, then we, the people, should step-up. I think the folks still living in crowded homeless shelters would agree.

Barbara Bush was asked what she thought about all of the evacuee's from New Orleans while she was standing outside of a shelter for Katrina victims in Houston.

Barbara Bush replied:
"These people can't stay in Texas for long,we can't have them all"

I think that sums up the GOP's take on Katrina.

I find it a little funny that after reading all these posts, I tend to get the feeling the "right" seems to think the "poor" in New Orleans have not done enough for themselves in their time of need. That somehow it is their own fault. Yet you will spend trillions of dollars and thousands of American lives to "liberate" the "poor" in Iraq. Does this seem strange to anyone else? How can you be so proud of what you have done for the Iraqi people yet ignore the suffering of our own country. When we have erased
poverty, illiteracy, and suffering in OUR world, then you'll have something to talk about.

Rus, I like your Styles. Many other people have tried to civilize this place and have failed. I admire your courage there, but it's a losing battle. And there doesn't seem to be any fixed screening standard other than No Potty Words.

I agree that there is little point in playing the blame game. especially since the Swampsters went around in circles about that months ago. The ball was dropped on the Federal, State and Municipal levels before and when Katrina hit.

NOW the ball is being dropped again in the rebuilding.

For example I've read that the same methods and materials are being used to rebuild the levees as were used when they were built in (I think) the early 20th century. This, in spite of the fact that engineers know there are better ways to do it.

And why not, as Jeff suggested, "building a buffer to future flooding, such as large areas of urban greenspace in the worst flooded areas ...as the Urban Land Institute has suggested"? A large chunk of the population is permenantly moved out, so the land is available for that.

I'll take that one, Bill. It's because the poor in Iraq are really, really, REALLY poor. With no social safety net or stable government to support them, they're not individuals with a right to self determination at all, but rather a beaten down underclass more trapped inside their own existence than endowed with free will.

Meanwhile, the poor in the U.S. are some of the wealthiest poor in the world. Being poor in the U.S. means having a roof over your head (even if it's only a homeless shelter or a Katrina cottage), three meals a day and government assistance if you choose to improve your life through education (even if it's only a GED) and subsidized housing (even if it's only Section 8).

That's why it's so maddening to us that we HAVEN'T eliminated poverty, illiteracy, and suffering in OUR world. So much money and machinery of government has been devoted to it since the 1970s that the system is clearly flawed. It would be easier to explain away if this was Iraq or Sub-Saharan Africa, but this is the greatest industrialized nation in the World and... this... is the best we can do. This is not the work of a great national power. This is the work of an office temp with a bad attitude.

That's why many of us have concluded that the entitlement culture has become a part of the problem it was created to help. When government assistance to families with dependent children means that a 16-year-old girl living in the projects can get her own check and move into her own place, rather than live in a squalid apartment with her mother and siblings then we've somehow started encouraging the behavior that leads to poverty. When mental health evaluation of the homeless has somehow become equated with policemen dumping other cities' homeless in LA's Skid Row, then we've certainly gone horribly wrong when it comes to treating and helping these people and just sloughing the problem off on someone else.

While I certainly don't mean to imply that our nation's poor are in any way wealthy at all - they're not - they are far better off than the poor of other nations. The fact that we haven't found a way to eliminate their suffering even more is the national failure and the national shame.

The fact that drugs and the drug culture still permeate neighborhoods like downtown New Orleans is the national shame. And neighborhoods like the South and West sides of Chicago.

That's why I wrote at the very beginning of this thread that the poverty and crime that existed BEFORE Katrina was the real problem in New Orleans and that definitely hasn't been solved or helped by the hurricane (8 murders in 7 days in NOLA since New Year's day). Would it be a tragedy if the hurricane didn't occur? Why not? There's an ongoing tragedy of crack cocaine and heroin ruining lives everyday on the West side. But what's REALLY been done about it? Not much. It makes the news whenever someone distributes bad heroin and 20-30 people die from it but it quickly leaves the headlines. Yet the Latin Kings, Gangster Disciples and the rest all still go about their business.

Everyone who's ever had a family member who's struggled with addiction has to empathize with these people, but the way to help them escape poverty and addiction cannot be increasing funding and aid alone.

We feel, Bill R., that the status quo can't continue and decades of data show that what we're doing now isn't working. We're willing to try something else. We'll help anyone who wants to help themselves but the days of the blank check clearly can't continue. This isn't a radical concept. Just ask Bill Clinton.

Bill R.,

Jeffy has just admitted defeat,he has blamed Katrina on Bill Clinton.

I knew you guys wouldn't disappoint me.
It's all Bill Clinton's fault,now I get it!

According to a Cal-Berkley (not to be confused with Fox News) study, since Betsy hit in 1965 the emergency response for New Orleans has not improved. If you want to blame President Bush for 4 of the 40 years, go ahead; but there better be blame for every president since and counting LBJ.

From a Houston Chronicle Article dated 12-1-2001:

"In 1990, the Breaux Act, named for its author, Sen. John Breaux, D-La., created a task force of several federal agencies to address the severe wetlands loss in coastal Louisiana. The act has brought about $40 million a year for wetland restoration projects, but it hasn't been enough.
"It's kind of been like trying to give aspirin to a cancer patient," said Len Bahr, director of Louisiana Gov. Mike Foster's coastal activities office. The state loses about 25 square miles of land a year, the equivalent of about one football field every 15 minutes." This is $400 million in aid that was supposed to help solve the problem - did it?

Has anyone thought, maybe putting people below sea level surrounded by a lake and a river isn't a good idea?

Dale,

I see you are part of "Big Landlord" that lives off gov't welfare called "Accelerated Tax Depreciation" I sure hope you all the other citizens subsidizing "Big Landlord"

Jeff...so tell me....How much do you know about the "poor" in Iraq, Will they be much different than "our" poor? Will they "pick themselves up by the bootstraps and say hooray for America now I can get an education and better myself? Again..Why do you feel the need to "help" the poor in Iraq before we cure our own, no matter how that should be. Drugs don't exist in Iraq? So basically what your saying is you give up? They don't want to help themselves so good riddance? Shame on you..and very unpatriotic. What happened to united we stand....
You're proud of a homeless shelter or Katrina cottage and "maybe" three meals a day? I guess you feel "winning" in Iraq(what ever that is) is easier than curing our own problems. I hope that works out for you. I only wish you had the same fortitude for our own people. Our people's level of poverty is better than others....how noble!

John E,

If you are not going to read the posts (or if you can't comprehend them) please don't attempt to comment. You're just embarrassing yourself.

Jeff,

I certainly take your point. Something is definitely broken in the system when entitlement apparently encourages the sort of behavior it's meant to eliminate or alleviate.

The problem is partly systemic. It's the nature of huge buracracies to be inefficient and ineffectual. It's also certainly due to some malaise in American culture, which Bill Clinton addressed in part with his welfare reform.

Agreed, clearly the blank check hasn't worked since we're fighting the same problems, generations after the battles began, and making no headway. But simply telling people that they must help themselves before the government helps them isn't quite enough.

The system remains broken and inefficient but, more importantly the culture remains sick. I believe in the government helping those who can't adequately care for themselves, but first and foremost, people have to care about people and too many people simply don't care, are irresponsible, are self absosorbed -- at every socio-economic level.

I don't know how to fix that.

Leo T...you're a good man!

"Has anyone thought, maybe putting people below sea level surrounded by a lake and a river isn't a good idea?"

So Terry, Why hasn't GWB had the courage to suggest relocating the city Of New Orleans? Is he too cowardly?

"Has anyone thought, maybe putting people below sea level surrounded by a lake and a river isn't a good idea?"

This has to be be one of the dumbest statements that I see people post when we talk about New Orleans. Let's tell those people in California they need to move. Those losers don't need to be living on a fault line. Empty out the North West, that volcano may blow again. The mid west...tornado alley..everyone out of the pool.
AND YOU CALL US DEFEATOCRATS!!!!!!!! America just doesn't have the technology to make levees safe just able to make smart bombs.

Dale Peters,
I think you missed the word---"another" apartment building...as in more than one and maybe many...
Paulo

"Leo T."

I don't answer your posts because you're not "Leo T."

Quit embarrassing yourself,be a man.

Tony,

LBJ, Nixon,....., Clinton, Bush43

This is hilarious. I never once suggested Katrina was Clinton's fault. I actually applauded Clinton for his welfare reform efforts. Someone was clearly asleep in class on reading comprehension day.

Back to the big kids table. I certainly don't suggest that we throw up our hands and give up on America's poor. But, again, I think Clinton was right. Welfare reform has to involve a component of education or workfare. The numbers of people who've climbed out of poverty since Clinton's workfare reforms are encouraging. There's no easy fix, but it's certainly a step in the right direction. And we shouldn't only be concerned about the poor when a natural disaster hits. It has to be a priority of every level of government. That's what's not happening, particularly here in Chicago.

Bill R., I don't believe I ever suggested that it's easier to help the people of Iraq rather than our poor. It's actually not. But we should still help them simply because their need is so much greater. It was right for us to help the people of Poland when Soviet tanks rolled into Warsaw. It's right for us to give asylum to people escaping oppression in Cuba and while you can think whatever you want about the invasion of Iraq, giving a voice and a meaning to the average Iraqi was never a bad thing.

Economic hardship and poverty is a horrible thing, but it pales in comparison to a totalitarian government using its power to crush the spirits of its people. Writer P.J. O'Rourke was once asked which economic mess of a nation was the absolute worst he'd ever been to (this was shortly after he'd written "Holidays in Hell," a book about spending holidays in war zones) and he didn't say Chad, or even Somalia, he said the worst was Poland in the early '80s, because "the look on people's faces said it all, they weren't really alive like you or me, but everthing about their mannerisms said they were just trapped in their existence."

Don't take my word for it. Take his:

"Throughout my nearly 40 years, I've seen only oppression, terror, and murder. But the removal of Saddam shows me that history can actually smile. Now, each morning I wake up, I find parts of my soul that I thought were dead are slowly coming back to life. April 9th was like a second birthday for me." -Naseer Hasan, a poet and former member of Iraq's national chess team

bill r,

Right back at ya.

"According to a Cal-Berkley (not to be confused with Fox News) study, since Betsy hit in 1965 the emergency response for New Orleans has not improved. [So]...blame... every president since and counting LBJ."

"Has anyone thought, maybe putting people below sea level surrounded by a lake and a river isn't a good idea?"

Posted by: Terry | Jan 29, 2007 6:58:13 PM

1) Right. I've said before and I stand by it: A lot of people have dropped the ball, Bush is just one of them. And by the way, it's not just presidents -- the screw up has been at the Federal, State and Municipal levels.

2) N.O. was not built below sea level, it gradually sank over the course of many years. The follow up question you're implying is "Why not just abandon/evacuate the place?"

One reason is that N.O. is a rich, vital and unique part of American culture and for that reason alone is worth fighting to save.

If you don't buy that (and shame on you if you don't!) there is also a very practical reason. N.O. is a major seaport. It's critically important to the petroleum industry, fishing, agriculture... in short virtually everything that is shipped in or out. There simply must be a city there.

Tony,

LBJ, Nixon,....., Clinton, Bush43

Posted by: Terry | Jan 29, 2007 9:35:48 PM

So they were all cowards Terry? You've said that GWB is one of the best Presidents ever. Saved Western Civilization. Shouldn't he do better?

Definitely germane to the conversation we've been having and like the best satire, this is funny because it's so, so, so, true.

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/fema_calls_rebuilding_complete_as

For those of you who complain that New Orlean residents didn't leave early enough before Katrina hit, did any of you see how Houston fared when Rita was headed its way?

Houston is a city of approximately 2 million people, and a metro area of over 5 million. On the Tuesday before Rita was predicted to hit (Saturday morning), the mayor of Houston, the mayors of Galveston and Houston's southeast suburbs, and county officials gave the evacuation order. The city has interstate highways, not to mention numerous 2 and 4 lane state highways leaving the city in 3 directions. Before dawn Wednesday morning all of these highways were in gridlock. Thousands of people trapped in non-moving cars. As the morning became afternoon, the temperature rose to the mid 90s. No shade, no nearby stores for water, food, bathrooms, air conditioning, gasoline, etc. Just one example: from the city's western border to the town of Columbus, I-10 west was gridlock - that's a distance of 50 miles! Even if they could have bused poor people away from the coast, assuming that the area had enough buses and drivers for them, they too would have been trapped in traffic.

And this occurred in a metro area that HAS an evacuation plan. Think what would have happened to those thousands of people stuck in gridlock if they were there when hurricane Rita hits?

Tony,

He should have done better.

I can't remember the town in Illinois, obviously smaller than New Orleans, but after one of the Mississippi River floods for 1980's or 1990's, the town picked up and moved a few miles east. It can be done and really Leo T makes a great point the New Orleans' situation of sinking is not getting better.

FYI: The below quote is from Sen Feingold (D-Wis), whose GOTOIP (Get-Our-Trops-Out-of-Iraq Plan) is even more aggressive than BO's...Judging from bloggers' feedback, he's hit an uptapped vein of approval.

“In the United States of America, the people are sovereign, not the president. It is Congress’s responsibility to challenge an administration that persists in a war that is misguided and that the country opposes. We cannot simply wring our hands and complain about the Administration’s policy. We cannot just pass resolutions saying “your policy is mistaken.”
And we can’t stand idly by and tell ourselves that it’s the president’s job to fix the mess he made. It’s our job to fix the mess, and if we don’t do so we are abdicating our responsibilities.
“Tomorrow, I will introduce legislation that will prohibit the use of funds to continue the deployment of U.S. forces in Iraq six months after enactment. By prohibiting funds after a specific deadline, Congress can force the President to bring our forces out of Iraq and out of harm’s way.
“This legislation will allow the President adequate time to redeploy our troops safely from Iraq, and it will make specific exceptions for a limited number of U.S. troops who must remain in Iraq to conduct targeted counter-terrorism and training missions and protect U.S. personnel.
“It will not hurt our troops in any way ­– they will continue receiving their equipment, training and salaries. It will simply prevent the President from continuing to deploy them to Iraq. By passing this bill, we can finally focus on repairing our military and countering the full range of threats that we face around the world.”

Terry, If Bush had stood up and seriously pushed to relocate NOLA, I'd have respected that, not agreed with it, but respected it. That would have shown leadership. Bush has shown no leadership what so ever at anypoint during Katrina and it's aftermath.

Nagin's preparing to approve the "build it just like it used to be" plan. Check out this passage from Times-Pic:

"The plan relies heavily on financial incentives to get people to build more safely. The clustering, elevation of homes and rebuilding of slab-on-grade homes, to mitigate future flood risk, would be voluntary under the proposal, raising questions about whether would-be investors would balk about putting their money into the plan."

Yeah, because people aren't going to build things on the cheap in New Orleans and get the same savings, now will they? Morons. You want to see a lack of leadership in the closest place to the situation, here it is.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/01/30/america/NA-GEN-US-Rebuilding-New-Orleans.php

Jeff, no doubt about it, Nagin is a tool and a moron.

But he is at least attempting to deal with the issue, unlike our President, who couldn't even spare it a sentence in the SOTU speech. Sailures at the mayoral level shouldn't excuse failures at the Presidential level.

Tony,

Nagin is leaving money on the shelf for his city because teh paperwork is too cumbersome. Talk about lack of leadership. President Bush has shown more leadership than Nagin or Blanco in this situation.

What leadership Terry? Be specific. What has George W. Bush personally done to lead the recovery of New Orleans?

There is federal funding waiting for New Orleans, all Nagin/Blanco have to do is some paperwork and the cash flows.

What more do you want the man to do?

"What more do you want the man to do?"

LEAD!

The whole gulf coast rebuilding, and not only NOLA, is a mass of overlying jurisdictional issues at all levels of government. Read the WSJ article I posted further up, the problems are far more widespread than Blanco/Nagin.

Someone needs to step up and put some political muscle behind getting solutions going. That person should be the President, who is supposed to represent all Americans.

Tony,

Great WSJ article:

"Of the tens of billions appropriated by Congress, half remains unspent.
There are many culprits. Among them: the size of the disaster, which continues to overwhelm agencies charged with rebuilding; the crush of competing bureaucracies, which has delayed many projects including the Bay St. Louis bridge; and weak local leadership."

"According to the White House, the federal government has provided $110 billion for the Gulf Coast region."

"In addition, many reconstruction efforts are ensnarled in spools of red tape spawned by a bevy of old and new government procedures. A prime example: an obscure set of 30-year-old Congressional rules designed to combat corruption known as the Stafford Act."

"Under its guidance, rebuilding funds must be accompanied by a 10% match from local governments, on the theory that localities won't misspend if their money is also on the line."

"Meanwhile, both Louisiana and Mississippi have been so keen to burnish their images that they created their own set of lumbering regulatory bureaus and antifraud audit shops."

"One man's red tape is another man's accountability." Remember the debit cards.

"It shows the difference between the private sector and the public sector," says Harold "Buz" Olsen, chief administrative officer of Bay St. Louis, who displays a photograph of the train bridge in the city council chambers as a reminder.

It shows the money is there. Yes there is bureacracy to jump thru because taxpayers want accountability and with the history of the area, probably for good reason.

Terry,

I'm so not surprised that you're ok with the suffering going on in the Gulf Coast due to the slowness of the recovery.

Accountability and red tape are great when it's keeping poor americans out of their homes, but it's completely unnecessary in Iraq, right Terry?

Never said it was all right in Iraq. The difference is Iraq is a war zone, there is continous change. Katrina was a one-time event.

Is accountability too much to ask for. All the locals have to do is set-up the accountability.

I loved the parralel drawn between private industry (CSX) and gov't in this article. Look closely and you will get an idea what "universal health care" will look like

Terry, how do the locals set up "accountability" when their town is destroyed? How do they put up 10% of the cost when their tax base is now non-existant?

Take Bay St. Louis for example. Late last year they had to put out an appeal for someone to donate money to pay the municipal electric bill since they had no revenues. They can't keep the Police Station lights on, and you think they should have to somehow set-up "accountability" before they can get their most basic services like sewers back on line?

Hey, but they're just poor people right? Completely unimportant in your mindset, just like the 15% of the people without health care.

Ever hear of municiple bonds?

Terry, who, other than you, would be foolish enough to buy a municipal bond from a jurisdiction with no functioning tax base?

One that I knew had money coming from the federal gov't. We don't all stuff our money in the matress.

From the AP today:
Tuesday, February 06, 2007

E-MAIL STORY PRINTER FRIENDLY VERSION
NEW ORLEANS — In the neighborhood President George W. Bush visited right after Hurricane Katrina, the U.S. government gave US$84.5 million (euro65.3 million) to more than 10,000 households. But official figures show fewer than 8,000 homes existed there at the time.

Now the government wants back a lot of the money it gave out across the region.

The Federal Emergency Management Administration has determined nearly 70,000 households improperly received US$309.1 million (euro239 million) in grants, and officials acknowledge those numbers are likely to rise.

In the chaotic period after two deadly hurricanes, Katrina and Rita, slammed the Gulf Coast in 2005, federal officials scrambled to provide help to hard-hit areas.

But an Associated Press analysi