Cheney says Americans "do not... and will not'' accept retreat

Hey, Republics!

How's that "Democratizing the Middle East" thing going for ya?

Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!

What makes the Vice-President thinks he speaks for most Americans? His approval rating is below 20% and many Americans believe he is the person who did the most to get us into this misadventure in Iraq.
Personally, I think his antics to get us into this war and his participation in the outing of a CIA agent are treasonable offenses.

Hey Dick troops on the front lines want you to take point

Spoken like a true Reublic man. During Viet Nam,this sissy hid in Wyoming while other brave Americans (58,000+)were serving their country and dying.

Never enough blood for Dickie,as long as it's someone else's.

Excuse me Emperor Cheney, you realize that you have no clothes on? Right?

What is he smpkin'? His sense of reality is wacked at best. "The American public won't support a pullout." That is too funny, sine the Election showed the "American people" wanted a change. Next, they'll bring back Nixon to declare that the "Silent Majority" wants to continue the war.

Buckley

Vice President, you are correct in that Americans will not accept defeat or be defeated. However, Loony Leftists want to be defeated, accept defeat. Loony Leftists hate America, want America to lose, want terrorists to kill millions upon million of people (might solve that man-made global warming problem, Loony leftists probably think and end the U.S. too, which they would love).

So, while America will not accept defeat, the Leftist crowd residing in America gladly would accept defeat.

Once again reporter Mark Silva is face to face with our soldiers, but refuses to talk with them about the war.

If a baseball reporter assigned to cover the Cubs never talked to the Cubs players, that reporter would be fired. Yet reporters write columns every day about the war without ever talking to the soldiers fighting the war.

Cheney has the audacity to speak for the American people. We now have realized that he was directly involved in the lies and deceit used to manipulate this country into invading and occupying Iraq. He continues to link 9/11 to Iraq. We Americans won't accept defeat, but we also won't accept for a liar to speak on our behalf.

What's with these quys? They're always about "victory" and "defeat". Can they really be so dense? Or do they think Americans are so dense that that's all we understand?

I am slowly getting convinced that these guys are perpetrating a massive con on us.

Way to ignore the expressed will of the American people Mr. Vice President!

Oh, and lets not ignore the internal contradiction...

"The terrorists, he said as he had the day before, view the whole world as their battlefield."

"The terrorists have made Iraq the central front in this war,"

"we know that if we leave Iraq before the mission is completed, the enemy is going to come after us."

Well, which is it Mr. Vice President? Are we bottling up the terrorists in Iraq, geographically keeping them from attacking us here, or is the whole world their battlefield? You can't have it both ways.

Why anyone would listen to Baghdad Bob Cheney about 'victory' or 'defeat' is beyond me. I don't even know what those words mean in relation to the mess we've created in Iraq.

John D Jeff Paulo I dare you to go after this guy

http://editorandpublisher.com/eandp/columns/shoptalk_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003548374&imw=Y

"Loony Leftists hate America, want America to lose, want terrorists to kill millions upon million of people "

Johnny D, do you really believe the crap that you write? If you do, you really are the looney.

It's kind of funny that Deadeye Dick "retreated" towards six defferments during the Vietnam war.

I guess it's different when other peoples family members are doing the real "nation building" for you.

Bruce,

You're essentially asking the same question you did yesterday when you said:

"How can you report on a war and NOT talk to the soldiers?

Actually, we know why. Because if the reporter talked to members of our armed forces, he'd find overwhelming support for winning the war. And he doesn't want that message broadcast." (Feb 21, 2007 11:57:31 AM)

I posed this question to you yesterday, which you ignored, so I'll ask it again in this thread:

Did you ever stop to think that maybe this "overwhelming support" has anything to do with active-duty service members not being allowed to speak out against their commanders without harsh reprimands? (Originally posted Feb 21, 2007 4:50:28 PM)

I am looking forward to the day when this man is charged and convicted of war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Bruce,

Much as you like to hang around the locker room, your baseball analogy isn't so.

As he stated in an earlier post, Silva is the pool reporter covering the VP (must have lost a bet). You would've been the first to point out that the troops in the relative comfort of Guam and its bikini-clad natives are a world away from the front lines in Iraq.

One wonders why Cheney needed to give the same tired pep talk

You will be rewarded nicely in the afterlife bruce and John D. Now bring me the soul of a puppy!

So John D, if 70% of Americans support the "Loony Left" viewpoint, how can they hate America? Do they hate themselves? I think you're the one who's out of touch, and I think that anyone who asserts that people who don't subscribe to the lying government's view hate America are nothing better than fascists themselves, and indeed hate both America and the prinicples on which it was founded.

First of all, Bruce, the soldiers stationed on Guam aren't exactly in the front lines of the war on terror. Second of all, Air Force 2 was on the ground for a total of 85 minutes. If a Cubs beat reporter was allowed to go to Wrigley one day for three innings during the middle of a game, I'm not sure we'd expect any interviews with the players.

Bruce-

Since you're so concerned about what the soldiers have to say, here's an article for you.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17247785/

The soldiers say that the Iraqis aren't taking part in the security policing around Baghdad. They say the security sweeps don't accomplish much.

"I think there will always be people who don't want us to be here," said Spec. Logan Gathman, 26, of Sacramento. "And whenever we show up the bad guys leave, anyway."

...oh, boy. Mr. Five Deferments is channeling George "Americans-Love-a-Winner-and-Will-Not- Tolerate-a-Loser" Patton.

Shameless. Gutless. Unhinged.

I have thought about how a military man would respond to someone from the media putting a microphone in his/her face and asking for an opinion. People who have never been in the service probably won't understand what I an about to say. As a marine in Vietnam I was not inclined to voice my comments, except to my comrades in arms, about the politics of why we were there. I was more involved in (1) staying alive, (2)protecting my brothers over there and (3)hoping that I made it home alive. Bitching and moaning accomplished nothing. Why risk the wrath of someone who is in a position to make your life more miserable. People who look for affirmation from the troops for what we are doing there need to consider this. These men and women need to be supported with proper equipment when they are there and their families need to be supported back home while they are gone. More importantly, they need to be supported when they return. A lot of my brothers were spit at in airports when we returned and we were pissed off but that indignity doesn't compare to being ignored regarding medical and mental disabilities that our troops are returning with now. If you really support the troops tear off that weathered vinyl ribbon off of your car and start telling your senator and congressperson to direct some of our tax money to these unselfish people, and their families, who are being killed and maimed in the name of this country.

Tony - I'm a soldier, over here in the middle east, the Iraqis are getting better from what I can tell and those who comapre this to Vietnam -here is I have to say -
As an Army officer and military historian I see few comparisons to Vietnam. The North Vietnamese and Viet Cong had huge advantages such as an extensive tunnel system that took decades to build, and long experience fighting the French and Japanese occupations in WWII. They had terrain advantages and inexhaustible supply from other Communist nations. Iraq is really nothing like this. Here we have sectarian violence emerging as a result of the removal of a brutal dictator. There are elements of Al-Qaeda and regime loyalists trying to prevent Democracy from taking root, and criminal elements following their interests. All of these things have been going on for about two years, and they are nothing of the intensity and pervasiveness of what occurred in Vietnam. Al-Qaeda and the insurgents do not have the advantages and resources of North Vietnam. And while we are in a period of what seems to be no progress to people like Senator Kennedy, there have been great strides made in building the Iraqi Army and getting them more and more into the field, and handling operations. Let us not forget that army was built from scratch; the start point was barely two years ago when decent training began, and it was not until 2006 when some units started to take the lead. But more and more they are stepping up, and are much more confident than they were 18 months ago. US reinforcement can and will aid and expedite this process, as well as working other measures we have not focused on enough yet. The Democrats expect instant results, and have no patience for difficulties, as was the case in the American Civil War. They need to be patient and supportive. And while no one wants American casualties, they are an unfortunate part of war, and we have to be able to sustain some, if we are to engage in necessary wars such as this one and the Civil War. If the Peace Democrats or Copperheads (as they were also called), had their way then, the North would have suspended the war against the South, the Confederacy would still be around today, and slavery probably would have lasted into the 20th Century. This world war on terror is going to go on for 20 years probably, and will be fought in more places than Iraq and Afghanistan before it is over. It is much better to fight on soil in the Middle East, and draw them in to where our forces are, than leave these places open for Al-Qaeda to operate freely and Taliban like regimes to take over. Iraq is an important front in this effort, and maintaining and constantly improving it is a winning strategy. Leaving it suddenly without setting the right conditions, is a losing strategy, and would only result in a costly return. As General Patton said: "Let's not pay for the same real estate twice," let’s make the effort to get it right whike we are here. Give Gen. Petreaus the time he and his command team need to shape this into success.

What's with these quys? They're always about "victory" and "defeat". Can they really be so dense?

In a word YES!!!

Big Gene ya hit the nail on the head. If we'd just get these people in the Middle East what they need that would be a good way for Tricky Dick and his cohorts to show real support. They are breaking the back of the military. Spread thin, underpaid, families enduring great hardship.
Way to go GW.

So how many more insane acts,war crimes,lies,
treason,and things like Building 18 Walter Reed
Army Medical Center is it still going to take
before enough more American people wake up and
demand our US Congress Democrat & Republican
Gutless Wonders Yellow Cowards either Impeach
both War Criminals,"Commander in Chief" Head Liar
George W Bush and Vice Psycho Delusional Dick
Cheney,The Famous Viet Nam War Draft Dodger or
start recalling all Members Of Congress who
fail to help Impeach Bush & Cheney now then?
In other words stop whining and get your butts
in touch with your own US Senators and Congressmen
and demand they do so,or let them know they will
be recalled!

LTC Knudsen-

First off, thank you for your service.

To respond to your points regarding progress being made with the Iraqi army, that is definately not the story we are getting here in that States. What we are hearing, and not from Democrats, but from troops in Iraq, is that the Iraqi army is not stepping up appreciably. Most of the recent security sweeps around Baghdad have been wholly American affairs, as in the article I linked to above. When the Iraqis attempted to bring in Kurds from the north to help, the units had massive rates of desertion.

But the real issue isn't an issue of military strategy. There is no military solution to the violence in Iraq. There must be a political solution. There must be a move to ensure that all parties in Iraq feel that they have a chance at success in a democratic Iraq. No effort is being made to that end. If this administration will not, or cannot, pressure the Iraqi Government to reach out to the diasaffected portions of the Iraqi populace to create a political structure that all sides can see a future in, then no amount of effort by the US military can stop the violence.

We have turned Baghdad into Beruit of the 1980's. The outside world could not stop the fighting there with military intervention. The fighting only ended with an internal political settlement.

Tony, if it came down to torturing a terrorist to prevent a nuke from going off in the U.S., your ilk would scream "No torture, no torture! The terrorists has his rights!!"
When the choice is between winning in Iraq and losing in IRaq, your ilk is for losing in Iraq.
When the choice is between listening to phone conversations of terrorists, your ilk is to not listen.
When the choice is to follow the financial transactions of terrorists, your ilk chooses not to.

Just look at how your ilk responds to 24, for crying out loud! "How can Jack torture that man?" your ilk cries. "Well, that man has information that can prevent a nuclear bomb from going off in LA, killing hundreds of thousands," the rational American responds. "But he is torturing him!" your ilk whines. "Stop, stop the torture. Be nice to the terrorist who wants to kill all Americans," your ilk continues to whine. "Give him cookies and crumpets and massages and foot rubs. Maybe he'll talk then. But stop the torture," your ilk whines and contests.

Facts, Tony, facts!

John D:

Ask anybody in the military: torturing someone to get information DOESN'T work! All you will accomplish is them saying ANYTHING PLAUSIBLE to get you to stop. Remember John McCain giving up the starting lineup of the Green Bay Packers to his Vietnamese captors?

LTC Knudson, thank you for your heroic service. May you stay safe and all of your buddies (male and female), and thanks for your terrific analysis.

And, Tony, it is the media largely reporting what you hear and wrote, not troops in Iraq. I have spoken with some men who were in Iraq as well military who know people in Iraq. All say, while everything could be better, much has been accomplished and that they are proud to be the ones accomplishing it.

John D,

"Facts, Tony, facts!"
Posted by: John D | Feb 23, 2007 10:38:20 AM

Go back and read your own post, John. You present absolutely no "facts" whatsoever, just your usual baseless Talking Points-style innuendo. You even bring up a fictional television program as part of the basis for your assault. Good critical thinking, friend! Boy you really won us over with your encyclopedic comprehension of "facts." All that "journalism" you practiced is really paying off.

As for the subject at hand, calling Cheney Machiaveillian does not really go far enough. I hate to sound Pollyanna-ish, but when I listened to the Blitzer/ Cheney interview a few weeks back, the man literally gave me the chills and caused my skin to crawl. Never do I remember a major political figure so immune to reality and contemptuous of humanity and Americans. Nor can I think of any politician who exudes such profound darkness and cynicism.

Cheney is often compared to Darth Vader, but the more apt analogy is of the Emperor. He is the power behind the President and a consistent force of manevolence in this world. The day I no longer have to listen to him speak as if he speaks for more than 25% of Americans will be an utterly joyous day.

Johnny D-

Life isn't an episode of 24. We aren't torturing people we think are going to set off a nuke in a matter of hours.

I have no problem listening to terrorist phone calls. Just have probable cause and get a court order.

We have these things, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights. They're not optional.

Tony, Bryan, as Loony Leftists I must admit again the realization you guys cannot read, comprehend, understand. The use of 24, as stated, is because of the Left's increasing hate for this show because of the torture scenes. Examples of the Left's hate for 24 can be found on loony left blogs, New Yorker magazine and other publications in the past year.

Tony, do you know that in 1998, the Clinton administration was listening in on Princess Diana's phone conversations, with no court approval? Do you know an appeals court just approved the administration's Gitmo detainees because our Constitution does not protect them? They have no rights under our constitution?c Does any of this ring a bell with the perpetually dense?

Did you get your money back from Souther Illinois University, John D? You should have.

"do you know that in 1998, the Clinton administration was listening in on Princess Diana's phone conversations, with no court approval? "

Yes, I know that has been alledged. How ever there is a major differnce between that case and the cases we are talking about. In the Diana case, it involved phone calls where both parties are outside of the United States. The Bush administration has been listenming to phone calls where at least one of the parties is within the United States, without warrant. The Fourth Amendment applies.

"Do you know an appeals court just approved the administration's Gitmo detainees because our Constitution does not protect them? They have no rights under our constitution?"

Yes, and I personally happen to believe that case was wrongly decided and that the law involved, The Military Commissions Act is a terrible piece of legislation that should be revised. Do we really want to set the pprecedent that foreign nationals have no legal protections in other countries? That couldn't come back to hurt Americans, could it?

More importantly, that case does not change the fact that torturing someone overseas, or conspiring to do so, is a direct violation of Federal Law. Title 18, chapter 113C.

Facts, Johnny D, Facts.

Cheney's definition of victory is when Halliburton secures the oil fields.

Cheney shooting for 1% approval before he's gone.

LTC Knudsen,

I concur with your fellow Americans in thanking you for your service.

You say you serve in the ‘middle east’ but didn’t specify Iraq. My friends and coworkers who serve(d) in Iraq don’t say they served in the “middle east,” but were specific about Iraq, so am I correct to understand you are in theater but not in Iraq? No reprimand is intended, just clarification of your location.

You mention you are an historian. I would like to politely suggest that your time perspective needs to broaden beyond seeing Iraq as a “war on terrorism” that has anything to do with al Qaeda.

You don’t mention that the current problem in Iraq is literally a civil war between two sects of Islam – Sunnia and Shia – that have been at war with each other since 632 AD. That’s correct, over 1300 years! Our services in Iraq will be needed much more than 20 years. We have been in South Korea for over 50 years, and there is still no truce, nor talk of truce. Refeeing the Sunni- Shia wars is potentially a millennia.

As others on this blog point out, the solution is Iraq is not a military solution. Literally, we, that is, the US of A cannot solve the problems of Iraq in a military paradigm. What is necessary is literally a paradigm shift from a military solution to either diplomatic, political or religious paradigms, amongst other paradigms.

As an historian you must know about Wahhabism? “For more than two centuries, Wahhabism has been Saudi Arabia's dominant faith. It is an austere form of Islam that insists on a literal interpretation of the Koran. Strict Wahhabis believe that all those who don't practice their form of Islam are heathens and enemies. Critics say that Wahhabism's rigidity has led it to misinterpret and distort Islam, pointing to extremists such as Osama bin Laden and the Taliban. Wahhabism's explosive growth began in the 1970s when Saudi charities started funding Wahhabi schools (madrassas) and mosques.”

When the US seems to do the bidding of Saudi Arabia, home of the Sunni and Wahhabists, in attacking Iran, home of the Shia, doesn’t that raise some concern that you are being duped by Dick Cheney? It certainly causes me to look behind the scenes.

Unlike the first Gulf War, the Saudis are not paying any of our expenses, nor allowing us use of bases. The reason we don’t have those privileges is because of ....Osama bin Laden’s vocal opposition to Saudi cooperation with the US.

Is al Qaeda in Iraq? Yes. Is al Qaeda in the US, I would say yes. Al Qaeda is probably in the majority of the nations in the world. Can they endanger us? They offer less threat to our constitution and way of life than the Bush administration. al Qaeda killed as many Americans in an hour as we lose in a month on our highways. Both result in human tragedy, but we need not let that fear rule our every waking moment.

The old saw, “When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail,” perfectly fits the Dick Cheney mentality of use of military force and fear of appearing weak. He is weak, a coward and a bully.

The question that Dick Cheney does not seem capable of comprehending nor asking is, “What is the most effective method of undermining the power of al Qaeda?” He has successfully demonstrated that a frontal assault with military force serves to inflame the passions of both Sunni and Shia against us, and ally them with al Qaeda.

Any way you measure it, that is a failure of epic proportions. Dick Cheney and George W. Bush have earned our nation's eternal emnity.

Impeach Cheney First, I say. Who dares to disagree?