Could a sorry Hillary be tough?

She is tough, whether she says she's sorry or doesn't. Anybody who can weather the things she has weathered and succeeded is a tough person. Her critics are and will be relentless, and they know she's tough, despite their bravado. Actually, she's tougher than all of them, because she is a woman, and they do not have a gender issue to overcome like she does.

She is very tough on the issues. But will America Vote for her or John M NO

Courage isn't sending other people off to die.

Courage is standing up publicly and admitting you made a mistake sending others off to die.

Is Hillary that tough? Apparently not.

I don't know if tough is the word. I'd say it's more like "obstinate" or "self-centered."

Nothing will galvanize the Republican party like a Dem nominated Hillary. This era of family extended lifelong politics has to stop. It is time for new people, not recycled wives, sons, nephews/nieces of previously elected officials.

Hillary's only qualification was she was a President's wife. I read people talk about all of her "qualifications" and think bull. She is two faced, and unable to face the music when wrong. Take away the name "Clinton", and nobody would be paying any atttention to her. She has no business running for, much less being President.

I'd say it's more like "obstinate" or "self-centered."

Posted by: Jeff | Feb 20, 2007 10:41:07 AM

Not resolve?

I'm not worried about Hillary.
The mouth breathing,knuckle dragging clowns from the right have been trying to swiftboat her for two yrs already and she's still doing fine.

Catherine, what's your point? I've said many times on these pages that Bush needs to open his mind up and not stick to a predetermined course. Hillary should follow that advice, too.

Wow Jeff/Bill,that's a real "stance" that you're taking there, speaking out against the worldwide unpopular G W Bush.

I guess my point is that even though Bush shows the dogged stubbornness of the truly stupid, some citizens still prefer to think of him as determined and principled.

I've said many times on these pages that Bush needs to open his mind up and not stick to a predetermined course. Hillary should follow that advice, too.

Posted by: Jeff | Feb 20, 2007 11:38:06 AM

+++
Wow Jeff/Bill,that's a real "stance" that you're taking there, speaking out against the worldwide unpopular G W Bush.

Posted by: John E. | Feb 20, 2007 11:51:06 AM

John E,

Why would you ridicule someone you've lumped in with the "mouth breathing,knuckle dragging clowns from the right" for siding with the much-discussed cause of getting leaders to open up their minds as the playing field shifts instead of blindly following the "stay the course" rhetoric?

Are you really that desperate to argue with people?

No wonder civil discussions are few and far between in The Swamp...

Not taking a stance, John E., just asking a question of Catherine. I'm sincerely not sure what her post is saying. But while we're here, John, who do you like between Hillary and BO?

It would have been so easy to just say, "I'm sorry this president lied to you when he said he would only go to war as a last resort. I'm sorry I trusted him. I'm sorry I voted for the resolution."

There goes Dale Peters and his mixed up mind again! Kerry,a democrat in his 3 month tour of duty in Nam is a war hero that got "swiftboated."
But,John McCain a P.O.W. and true war hero,just isn't right for Dale,maybe because he's a Republican????
Dale,building 18 is being taken care of,but you don't care as long as it's fodder for you and your ilk to bash Bush...get a life and move to New Orleans where you can get really depressed.
Paulo

Incidentally, Catherine, I agree.

I thought Catherince made her point and position clearly.

I would be proud to vote for Hillary if: she stops pandering to the perceived notion that she has to "be tough" -- this is not a street-gang leader we're electing. The current president and his disciples think he's tough, but the world knows he's stupid and dangerous.

Hillary, unfortunately, has been caught in the politics of stupid and doesn't quite know yet how to get out of it.

Jeff,

If McCain doesn't stand for the principles that you want in a Presidential candidate i.e. pandering to the evangelicals,why do you still support him as a candidate???

Catherine and Jeff....
You can think of Bush however you wish,stupid,dogged stubborness or whatever,but The United States of America hasn't been attacked since 9/11,ever ask yourself why?
During Clinton we were attacked at home and many times abroad and he did nothing about it,but get on T.V.point his finger and act tuff.
Clinton left office and handed Bush a mess to clean up and Bush is doing so,the only problem is it lead to an unpopular war because of Clinton's failed foreign policies and his failure to protect this nation.
If Bill Clinton and his administation were as "stupid" as Bush we never would of had 9/11,but if Clinton acted to protect this country,his poll numbers would have gone down and he loves good poll numbers....sad to say.
Paulo

RogerB.
Hillary isn't pandering on the notion that she's tuff,she's pandering on polling numbers.(like Bill)
If she gets elected The U.S. will pay for this mistake with many lives lost at home and abroad because the terrorists are waiting for someone like her,Edwards or B.Hussein Obama to take office.They'll have a killing field with these radical appeasement leftists.
Hey,don't believe me? Check out Carter and B.J.Clinton's record on terrorism.And don't forget 9/11 was planned under Clinton.
Paulo

Free advice to Hillary: she should simply lie about her 2002 vote. She's lied before. And since most Democrat candidates are running around trying to lie about their pro-war vote, she'd fit right into the party's mainstream.

All I can say is that I see that you are biased. All you can think is that no one can rule anything but a White Male. Any jerk can be president - have you not seen this already?
Why does Hillary have to be "Too Weak" to be president? Your white male presidents have driven our country into the ground. Because of greed and power, we are in hot water with almost all nations in the world, let alone the debt.
I would rather have an intelligent women than one of your JERK white male canidates that we have seen for a long time now. . .

We haven't heard from C.Morris lately. I miss him. I'm going to post some lyrics that he'd like and Hillary should definitely listen. This song is by Nashville recording artist Roger Alan Wade.

If You're Gonna Be Dumb, You Gotta Be Tough

If your gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough
When you get knocked down you gotta get back up,
I ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer but I know enough, to know,
If your gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough

Well, I drenched my brain with Rot-Gut whiskey
'Till all my pain was chicken fried
And I had dudes with badges frisk me
Teach me how to swallow pride
I took advice no fool would take
I got some habits I cant't shake
I ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I know enough to know
If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough

If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough
When you get knocked down, you gotta get back up
That's the way it is in life and love
If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough

I've been up and down and down and out
I've been left and right and wrong
Yeah, I've walked the walk and I've run my mouth
I've been on the short end for too long
But if they gave medals for honky tonk wars
Hell, I'd put mine in my chest of drawers
With my irs bills and divorce papers and all that stuff
If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough

If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough
When you get knocked down, you gotta get back up
I ain't the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I know enough to know
If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough

"...though Bush shows the dogged stubbornness of the truly stupid, some citizens still prefer to think of him as determined and principled."
Posted by: Catherine | Feb 20, 2007 11:57:14 AM

"Hillary, unfortunately, has been caught in the politics of stupid and doesn't quite know yet how to get out of it."
Posted by: Roger B. | Feb 20, 2007 2:40:03 PM

Unfortunately, its political poison for any politician to do the perfectly normal, intelligent human thing -- change their mind. They'll be accused of weakness, lack of resolve, and the phrase "flip-flop" (which gets my vote for most annoying, vacuous slogan) will immediately start to fly.

Unfortunately for HC, there's a double whammy for women. They've got to be tough, but then if they are they're humorless icy b*tches.

Hey Paulo, why didn't you mention Reagan's record on terrorism? No response to the Marine barracks attack, trading arms to Iran for hostages.

How about mentioning George H. W. Bush pardoning the Iran Contra criminals.

Why didn't you mention that George W Bush has had exactly the same level of success getting Bin ladin as Clinton did?

John E., when exactly did I say pandering to evangelical voters was something I support in a candidate? Are you SO starved for argument that you're just going to put the words directly in my mouth now? Jeff C. was right about you and you're not worth the time.

Paolo, I certainly agree that we haven't been attacked since 9/11 and the hard line Bush has taken against terrorism is a big factor in that (see today's article about a federal appeals court overturning an earlier decision that sided with the Gitmo detainees for a huge administration win in a terrorism case).

When I speak about mistakes that Bush has made that he could've avoided simply by not following his predetermined course I'm speaking mostly about Iraq and the policies that have gotten us where we are today.

Not firing Rumsfeld earlier was a problem. The low troop levels that Rumsfeld's "lighter, faster military" demanded hamstrung our troops and kept us from securing the border.

Also not announcing Rumsfeld would be fired before the mid-term elections was a major goof borne of hubris. If he'd done it one day earlier we'd probably still have control of the Senate.

I could go on, but I think you get my drift.

Paulo,

It sounds you like haven't had any female companionship for a few years,gee I can't imagine why...

Hillary is tough she can handle angry virgins like Paulo without breaking a sweat.

I'm looking forward to the Democratic debates,one of them will be our next President and thank god for that after what the GOP has done to this country during the W./Cheney administration.

Paulo, whatever the length of Kerry's military service was, it was longer than Bush and Cheney's put together.

The rest of your posts are long on bull**** and short on facts. Links, dude. You're sounding more like JohnD everyday.

.....I"d love to see McCain tell Jerry Falwell and the rest that we don't need the relgious right or it's "self-appointed leaders" again..."

Posted by Jeff Feb 20,2007 12:33:48 PM

Jeff, As I said before,why do you continue to support McCain when he continues to pander to the religious right??

Why is this question out of line???

John E., McCain doesn't stand for pandering to those voters, either, that's why he said he supported the voters way back in 2000 and just not their self-appointed leaders.

But if you'd linked my entire post and not just cut and pasted the part you like (you should work on some Hillary campaign ads) you'd see that I said at least allowing the far right into the discussion is necessary to win the nomination and the right thing to do. McCain made the famed "self-appointed leaders" speech back in 2000 about Falwell and Robertson, but he never said he didn't respect and want everyday evangelical voters on his side. In fact, he actively courted them in that same speech.

That cost him votes and McCain knows it. You can say it's pandering or whatever you want but it is a political reality. It's the same as when Obama takes pictures with Al Sharpton and pretends for a few minutes that Al's not a bigoted race-baiter. He's there to court the people that follow him, not so much Al.

If it's the fact that evangelical voters have such power because of their numbers on election day, then maybe it's democracy you have a problem with.

Here's my entire post:

Erick, I agree. I'd love to see McCain tell Jerry Falwell and the rest that we don't need the religious right or its "self-appointed leaders" again. Unfortunately, that's politics today. It makes me sick and I'm sure it makes him sick.

Posted by: Jeff | Feb 20, 2007 12:33:48 PM

While I don't support the vast majority of the religious right's initiatives I do believe they're every bit as much Republican and American as me and that they should have a say in the direction of their party and nation. If that means McCain speaks to them on the campaign trail, so be it. That's not pandering, that's running a smart campaign and having a Big Tent. Although with someone as closed-minded as you, I understand why you can't tell the difference.

I'm having fun on this thread, so this'll be my last post on the subject. Does anyone have more song lyrics about the dumbness of "flip flop" campaigning or being tough?

Wow Jeff,I'm impressed,you answered that like only a slick polito could.

If McCain's going to be a "straight shooter" again he needs to tell the RR to get hosed,otherwise he's toast.

I don't have any sorry feelings for the evangelicals,they've been running our country for the last 6+ years....right into the ground.

For lyrics ideas,may I suggest:

doo doo doo doo doo HEARTBREAKER,
from Mick and the "boys".

I think JohnD.is right,you and Janet are JohnE's
sisters,all living in the basement... your posts support his theory.

I've been quoted by the famous,"articulate" and "clean" Eric Zorn and you live in a basement with Janet.....don't bother me,I'm too busy.
Paulo

The Hillary Clinton blog seems to have rescinded its wayward attempt to control intellectual property.While allowing some negative postings,all postings definitely aren't included.

Senator Clinton is handling everything exactly as she should. Telling those who don't agree with her to vote for someone else has only increased my admiration for her.

Meanwhile, she keeps bashing and criticizing Bush - the real demon responsible for the mess in Iraq and the now, all but ruined, reputation of the U.S. around the world.

Nobody should ever wonder why every single poll has Hillary Clinton in the lead. She's the best politician in the country. I'm glad she's a Democrat.

Do we really want Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton?

Is this not exactly what this country was founded in rebellion against?

Are we so impoverished of will and ideas that we must rely upon family dynasties?

This is shameful of us.

Paulo, I think Eric was laughing at you not with you.

I'll submit this again since the Swamp LIBune censors are very sensitive about any negative comment toward their Loony Lefter buddies.

Catherine, dear, you keep requesting links. When have you supplied links? Sorry, but I have submitted links to William Gray's comments on global warming, and Gray is perhaps THE preeminent weather expert. I've submitted links on a host of other topics as well, from spending on Veterans and health care on Veterans to government spending to the economy and more.

But all of that is to no avail because you are incapable of thought, incapable of reason, incapable of understanding and comprehension. Basically, incapable. Just stay in the basement with your bro John E., living off mummy and duddy, and stop your bomb throwing when you never have anything to back up your nonsense.

Good point, Adam, every poll gives Hillary a double-digit lead over Obama. Yet somehow I forgot about that. Could it be the rah-rah atmosphere here at The Swamp?

Johnny D-

A little homework assignment for you-

Research the difference between weather and climate.

Tony Balogna:

See I can be just as dumb as you. If weather is not part of the climate, then what is it?

We are told the planet is warming and that man is causing it. There is much evidence contrary to that and thousands of weather experts, who are also climatologists, say man-made global warming is NOT taking place; that the facts do not support the theory. Add climatologists to that list too, including recently fired state climatologists for Oregon and Delaware, fired because they wrote papers stating man-made global warming is NOT a fact.

Johnny D,
Has William Gray submitted any research articles for peer review? Maybe you could link those peer reviewed articles.

JohnD,you're proving a point I made on another post. William Gray is a pioneer in forecasting hurricanes. He's also a global warming skeptic. There are scientists weighing in all over the place on this topic. You pick one guy you like and then say he is the Preeminent weather expert. You have posted selected links at times, but when you're in one of your deranged modes, you just spew whatever the latest crap from Limd**k and the rest of the haters are handing out.

By the way, I give anything to spend time with my parents again.

John D,

Off-topic but while we're talking about providing links, here is the information you requested on Bill Clinton and the USS Cole:

Here it is, John. Try actually reading for a minute and you might actually learn something:
http://www.harpers.org/WhitewashAsPublicService.html

"In September 2000, before the election, John McLaughlin, then acting deputy director of the CIA (in the Clinton Admin.), camped at Bush's ranch in Texas with a CIA team bringing the harrowing message. Ben Bonk, deputy chief of the CIA's Counterterrorist Center, was among the experts who told Bush that Americans would die in terrorist acts led or inspired by Bin Laden during the next four years. Authoritatively assembled material was submitted to the Bush/Cheney transition team spelling out the fact that “al Qaeda had ‘sleeper cells’ in more than 40 countries, including the United States.” An attachment to this paper, submitted in January 2001, focused on “al Qaeda's presence in the United States.”

When James Pavitt, CIA deputy director for operations, briefed the president-elect at Blair House, he described Bin Laden as “one of the gravest threats to the country.” Bill Clinton told Bush in a two-hour session on national security: “‘I think you will find that by far your biggest threat is Bin Ladin and the al Qaeda.’” Clinton spoke as one who had lived through a rain of jihadist bombs—the Black Hawk Down incident, the African embassies, the Cole, the Millennium Threat, among them. Bush later said that he “felt sure President Clinton had mentioned terrorism, but did not remember much being said about al Qaeda.” All this is in the Report for anyone to see."

This is a report to Congress concerning the USS Cole issued on January 30, 2001. You'll note that even at this date, guilt is assumed but not ascertained.

"On October 12, 2000, the U.S. Navy destroyer Cole was attacked by a small boat
laden with explosives during a brief refueling stop in the harbor of Aden, Yemen. The
suicide terrorist attack killed 17 members of the ship’s crew, wounded 39 others, and
seriously damaged the ship. Evidence developed to date suggests that it may have been
carried out by Islamic militants with possible connections to the terrorist network led by
Usama bin Ladin.

The FBI, Defense Department, and Navy launched investigations to determine
culpability for the attack and to review procedures. A broad DoD review of
accountability was conducted by a special panel. ON JANUARY 9, 2001 (my emphasis) , the panel issued
report which avoided assigning blame but found significant shortcomings in security
against terrorist attacks, including inadequate training and intelligence. On January 23,
2001, Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman, John Warner, announced intentions
for the Committee to hold its own investigation. Issues for Congress include the
adequacy of (1) procedures by U.S. forces to protect against terrorist attacks; (2)
intelligence related to potential terrorist attacks; and (3) U.S. anti-terrorism policy and
response. This report will be updated if major new developments warrant."
http://fl1.findlaw.com/news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/crs/coleterrattck13001.pdf

Just take a look at the facts, John, and you will become a more educated citizen and a less ridiculous "journalist."

Weather is a part of the climate, but it is not the same as the climate. That's the point.

Is an accountant the same as an economist?

BTW neither the Oregon or Delware State climatologists have been fired for their views. In fact, there is no position of "Oregon State Climatologist".

Again with the lies Johnny?