Bush: Driving on corn and sugar

Thanks GW. Tell that to the poor people in Latin America who now pay three times what they used to for corn products.

Producing ethanol requires a lot of petroleum for fuel (agri-equipment, shipping, storage, processing) plus for fertilizers (an environmental hazard in it's own right, by the way) to create a fuel that burns more or less just as dirty as gasoline.

By most calculations there is a net loss of energy.

Time to dump this idea.

Bush doesn't give a rat about the environment. This is all about money. Ethanol interests are the next oil industry, both in money and in unethical behavior.

This seems to be jumping from the pot into the kettle.
This form of alternative fuels does not seem like the way to go with a net loss on energy. This is the best we can come up with? Look at all the possibilities before you start preaching
"your" way forward.

Cuba next Dubya.....they grow a lot of sugar!!!!

What are you smokin Leo.
Do you really think that alcohol burns as "dirty" as gasoline. Looks like someone needs to stop believing everything he hears and do a little research.

Latin America has always paid 3 times what they should due to corrupt governments, ethanol requires more petroleum? the farmers around here have switched to bio-deisel which burns cleaner, and yes unfortunatly Bush does not care about the environment, he only cares about money and allowing his buddies in the Oil industry to rape the American public.

Good for you to know that poor people in Latin America have the best fuel and you, american people need it to survive!

The point isn't to create a cleaner fuel, it's to create one equivalent to oil that we can produce ourselves and is renewable.

At present there appears to be a zero energy gain for corn based ethanol, so selling it to the public as viable is misleading.

Ethanol based upon sugar cane has a much higher energy return because more of the plant can be converted to fuel.

The "cleanest" form of energy that is even remotely economically viable at the moment is unfortunately nuclear.

If we concentrated on methane from animal waste, or BS for short, there'd be an endless supply from Washington alone.

More Loony hypocrisy from the Loony Left. You folks want alternative energy and fuels, but you moan about it. One of the chief Left Wing Senator Loons, Tom Harkin, is a big proponent of ethanol. So is Dick "Our troops are Nazis and Pol Pot" Durbin. Icons and idols of the Loony left, Durbin and Harkin are.

So, let's review the Loony Left and energy:
1. Oil, bad.
2. Ethanol, bad.
3. Nuclear power, bad.
4. Coal, bad.
5. Natural gas, bad.
6. Burning wood, bad.
7. Wind, bad. You guys say you support wind power, but then Kennedy and Kerry (two more Senator Left Wing Loons) fought to prevent windmills from spoiling their ocean views. Also, windmills do have a terrible history of killing millions of song birds a year.
8. Solar, good. Maybe.

So, what kind of energy do you loons want???

So, what kind of energy do you loons want???

Posted by: John D | Mar 9, 2007 11:31:04 AM

The kind that runs on the hot air that you spew!

What are you smokin Leo.
Do you really think that alcohol burns as "dirty" as gasoline.
Posted by: Sim | Mar 9, 2007 11:02:30 AM

Sim,

I said "more or less". Nobody is talking about burning pure alcohol anyway, but a gasoline/alcohol mixture.

But what comes out of the tailpipe really isn't the point.

Ethanol production is filthy. Besides the air pollution from farm equipment, transportation and processing, there is a haze of greenhouse gas over every farm field that is created by petroleum based fertilizers and pesticides.

Furthermore, these chemicals also leach into the groundwater, poisoning what we drink plus causing explosions of algal growth killing off fish in our lakes, ponds and rivers.

So even if what came out of the tailpipe were as clean and pure as God's own breath, ethanol is an environmental catastrophe. Period.

Oh, and let's not forget the energy inefficiency... so what's the payoff?

"the poor people in Latin America who now pay three times what they used to for corn products."
It seems to me that that is the Mexican governments problem not Bush's. They grow their own corn as far as I know and certainly fon't have to buy the more excpensive American corn.
"By most calculations there is a net loss of energy."
By what calculations? The last time I heard fermentation is a natural process. I am sure that there are some energy costs but it certainly is not at a net loss. If it were what would be the reason to do it? Just to make those right wing corm farmers rich?...yeah right.
"Bush doesn't give a rat about the environment."
Your liberal overloads don't care either. They just use it as a method to get votes from you tree hugging ignorant sheep.
"This form of alternative fuels does not seem like the way to go with a net loss on energy."
Absolutely right, there is no reason to do it if it will not help reduce our need for petroleum. So who is lying here?
I suspect the liberals of just trying to shoot down anything that is good for this nation. All of the preceding comments are based in FUD(fear, uncertainty and doubt). They were not thought up by the posters, but they were fed this by liberal media, candidates and others bent on tearing down
the Bush Administration and this nation.

You really need to understand the liberal thought process...it is based in emotion and reaction. Unfortunatly, it always lacks understanding or the long term effects of that which it claims to cure.
Start holding your elected officials to their words, listen to what they are really saying. Don't get caught up in the emotion of an issue, that will just blind you to true solution.

After looking at the pictures of the protesters of W.'s trip to Brazil,it appears that he's just as "popular" down there as he is back in the States.

I love the pictures they chose of Bush. Halarious! Could this guy be depicted any worse in the press?

aaron,
Good post.

John D,
The point is, as aaron noted, that there is no perfect fuel. That said, we have to find one that reasonably efficient, renewable and is not too dirty. Agricultural ethanol does not fit the bill.

Maybe if ethanol can be produced from waste, it might be viable. My understanding is that this isn't practical right now.

Meanwhile there are some hard realities to be faced:

- Petroleum is a finite resource. We have now reached -- or soon will -- the peak of world production. Among other problems, this means that price rises are only going to accelerate.

- We simply must reduce usage, which means not only striving for energy efficiency, but reducing the overuse/overproduction of plastics and petrochemicals. Produce less, recycle more.

- We have also reached an environmental crisis point, so it is critically important to do all of the above while we clean up the way we live. Dirtier energy is unacceptable. Just as dirty isn't much better.

None of this is news. The time to have been moving on these imperatives was 30 years ago. We'd best start moving now.

More Loony hypocrisy from the Loony Left. You folks want alternative energy and fuels, but you moan about it. One of the chief Left Wing Senator Loons, Tom Harkin, is a big proponent of ethanol. So is Dick "Our troops are Nazis and Pol Pot" Durbin. Icons and idols of the Loony left, Durbin and Harkin are.
Posted by: John D | Mar 9, 2007 11:31:04 AM

Hmmm, why would senators from corn producing states put the use of corn? But I thought only the GOP catered to special interests?

In my neighborhood we have the perfect example of the "loony left hyporcrisy". The family lives in a big, old, Tudor mansion (worth around $800,000 or so). You can just feel the cold draft when you're in the house - through the less than insulated "original" windows (the owner maintains the house in perfect condition, but demands the "orginal" look and feel of the house). In the yard are 2 SUVs (big gas guzzling ones). On the back of both are numerous "hate Bush" stickers. My favorite is the "no blood for oil". Always puts tons of Dem signs in he yard. Just after the US invaded Iraq in 2003, he told a group of 8 year old kids, in graphic detail, how Bush was killing babies in Iraq. I wish I was making this up, but am not.

Conservation is neither cheap nor easy. And its not just all in the governments hands.

sailor,
You sound confused and ill. I know someone who can give you the help you need, if you are willing. If you let your anger grow you will not only be a danger to yourself but also to those around you.

Shepherd,
Shouldn't someone prepare our children today for the Iraq War they will be fighting tomorrow?

Awww, Bill R., does the truth hurt you? Every point I made is fact. So far other than solar, I know of no energy source that makes you Loons happy.

There is some viability to wind, though my opposition to it has nothing to do with Teddy Kennedy wanting to preserve his views. The biggest obstacle to wind power in my view is the fact that millions of song birds die a year because of windmills. Not a good trade-off.

Shepherd,
Shouldn't someone prepare our children today for the Iraq War they will be fighting tomorrow?

Posted by: john | Mar 9, 2007 12:54:42 PM

Stay on point - hypocrisy and conservation are the issue. As for your point, telling graphic detail, of anything to children, is sick.

Bush needs to stop sniffing Ethanol period...

How about everyone go back to horse and buggy? Or would that produce too much methane?

I'm from Brazil. Work in a government agency that rules energy. You all should read more about our reality. You may know about Bush and his way to rule, but now about how we make agriculture here. Do not you think you can reach all details of this subjects being a thousand kilometres away. You have no external powers.

"I love the pictures they chose of Bush. Halarious! Could this guy be depicted any worse in the press?"

He is an idiotic curmudgeon.

I watched Gerald Ford's funeral recently. So many people - in the days before, the day of, and in the days after - said countless nice things about him, his character, integrity, sincerity, honesty.

As the cameras panned to George W. Bush sitting in the National Cathedral, I thought to myself, "When he dies, his tributes won't be so glowing."

Pity really. Like the lives of American soldiers in Iraq, George W. Bush's presidency has been wasted.

I live in São Paulo, Brasil, and lived in Chicago for 7 years too, and it is amazing how little you Americans know or understand about Brasil. This whole thread of comments demonstrates this. Brasilians are not anti-American, they are anti-American policy. If anything Americans are loved down here. And we are happy about the ethanol accord. What we are unhappy about is that American governments keep on asking us to open up our financial and retail markets more, but the Americans won´t open their agricultural markets to us. Instead you all pay taxes to support inefficient farmers, instead of buying our cheaper, higher-quality agricultural goods. This is the definition of hipocrisy.

We are also unhappy about the Iraq war. The instability it creates reaches here too. We still need petroluem here, and the instability America has created impacts us strongly.

What Brasilians want is the opportunity for usto sell our goods to the north so we can reinvest the gains in education, if the politicians don't steal all the money first.

GWB in South America; we can only hope he throws the OK hand sign, like Dan Quayle did!

The loony left and the hateful right, any middle ground? If we have any leadership on either side we'd be past the bickering and the spin and on our way to solving the problem. Clearly electric is the way to go, solar, wind, and yes nuclear and coal. The problem, little profit, everybody needs to take a bite out of the consumer, it's the American way.

tazenman do you even know a Mexican???

John D yer a loony right wing nutter. Vote for the candidate not the party. I do. Do your homework first if you can read. Your comments make me yawn. Zzzz.

Wow sailor get off the pipe and speak to a Mexican some time. Sure they have a corrupt Government. So DO WE!!! It's about corn and money not liberal ranting. By the way I'm not a Dem or GOP guy. I vote for the best person. There are very few around. Miosis runs rampant today in the Swamp. Before you spew your bile talk to some people who are smart and have brown skin. Ya know they do more than wash your plates and mow your lawn.

Mateus gets it! Brazil has been way out front on this.

I have watched CNN and also "GLOBO" the Brazilian TV channel while the two presidents were making their speeches.
You could clearly read 'PETROBRAS" behind
president Bush.
Now the word has vanished on these photos.
Could it mean some manipulation? How can
one trust your photos? How about the integrity
of your articles?

Mateus is right. That is what most developing countries want, freer entry into the American (and OECD) markets for products and services that they produce far more competitively.

It makes sense for US also. These countries would then have money to invest and buy what America has. America is a knowledge society, the politicians still talk about farm products and manufactured products. We have gone far beyond that. The slide of GM and Ford is evolutionary. Let such industries shift to economies where they would be more cost effective.

Driving a $50grand SUV with an 18% efficient engine pushing 3 tons of mostly empty space to the mini-mart for a pack of smokes?... Now that's what I call loony.

Since ethanol "needs" a .50/gal import tax I suggest Alberta require a an exit visa and add a .50/gal tax on every barrel of oil headed south of the 49th ...heck that stuff is dangerously inflammable, could even be used for terrorist purposes.

where is the pictures from the protest?????
where is the news of the riot police???

bush, get out!

El Diablo is stinking up the Southern Hemisphere with the smell of Sulfur.

Now that the dems have control of both houses,where is the utopia that we were promised?Gas prices are soaring again,we are still in Iraq,(We don't mind Afghanistan,that's a good war)no universal health care,paper-boy still throws paper in bushes,and where is that minimum wage increase!....Is this America?
Oh,and Nancy Pullosi still has a small jet!!!

Paulo

Here's a quote from an article in the San Diego Union Tribune printed 8/3/05, and this doesn't even mention the amount of water needed to grow the crops to produce ethanol:

"According to scientists in New York and California, it takes more energy to make ethanol than you get back in fuel savings. More precisely, says David Pimentel of Cornell University, it takes the equivalent of 1.29 gallons of gasoline to produce enough ethanol to replace one gallon of gasoline at the pump. Instead of making the nation more energy self-sufficient, ethanol production actually increases our need for oil and gas imports, Pimentel says."

Read entire article here:

http://feinstein.senate.gov/05speeches/ethanol-oped.htm

I just love when people like Mateus( from Brazil), get in to forums like these and feel their duty to say that Americans no nothing about Brazil and that he has lived here and now understands how everything works. I would bet you money that a bigger chunk of the people in this country are far more educated and cultured than the people in Brazil. Stop and think. If you are an educated person, like I think you are, you are such a small minority(really small) in Brazil that it is not even fair to make comparisons. You seem very prejudiced when you read a hand full of comments here and place a label like "you Americans" .

Where did you also get the information that we have "inneficient farmers"? "You Brazilians no very little about American Agriculture"( sorry, I had to do that). If the Brazilian farmers are not exploiting children and the poor, they are surely utilizing AMERICAN machinery, American soil fertilization techniques, and all our know-how through our millions of efficiency programs offered throughout our institutions in this country.

The US is currently the world's largest producer of Ethanol (yes..followed by Brazil)...and I don't think inneficient farmers should deserve your remarks. "Wake up and smell the corn! meu amigo!"

"I love the pictures they chose of Bush. Halarious! Could this guy be depicted any worse in the press?
Posted by: Christian | Mar 9, 2007 12:03:47 PM"

C,
And notice, he and Hugo C. seem to have a similar podium style, (not unlike the prez. of Iran.)

All bluster and tuff stuff.

Talk about two loose lug nuts rattling around in the same hubcap. Sooner or later they are bound to collide.

Great article in WSJ about Ethanol from Brazil. Interesting fact, poison has to be added to ethanol before it is shipped across the United States because the characteristics of the ethanol is very similar to moonshine.

"But honest officer, I haven't been drinking, but my car has"

[quote]
Oh,and Nancy Pullosi still has a small jet!!!

Paulo
Posted by: Paulo | Mar 9, 2007 9:40:05 PM
[/quote]

And it's the same model that Hastert flew for the past 5 years nonstop from DC to Illinois, except with longer range. Where were your complaints then, Paulo?

John, I am sick...sick of listening to liberal crap day in and day out...read my post again and try to to do what I said....
I know you feel good supporting liberal causes..it is meant to do that. But does it solve the problem?
That is the question you need to ask yourself.