Warner hits Pace on gay remarks

I don't care what Warner says, I'm firmly behind Pace all the way.

I agree with the General. As a retired member of the armed forces I feel that the general has enough on his plate. The focus should be on results not political noise.The General does not make policy, He relies on his commanders to enforce it.

George O'Connor, CWO Ret.

Right On.... If you didn't like Pace's answer then DONT ASK!!!!

Who cares what this moron Pace believes? He has to explain why it is wrong for others who do not share his beliefs why it is wrong for them to engage in that behavior.

Besides, if you are going to make an argument for keeping discrimination in the armed forces, you have to make the argument based on the necessity of such discrimination and NOT on the fact that gays offend his moral sensitivity. Who is he? GOD? Does the universe revolve around him? Are things the way they are because of his beliefs?

He is a retarded jackass moron who should keep his foul mouth shut. The last thing the armed forces need after Walter Reed and the war on Iraq is some dim-witted cretin mouthing off and displaying his bigotry and ignorance. Stupid.

Everybody's in an uproar because General Pace expressed his personal opinion on homosexuality. I believe that most Americans agree that most abnormal behaviors such as necrophilia, pedophilia and homophilia are in fact immoral. We have just been cowered into not expressing our beliefs publicly.

It saddens me that our country is so behind the times on this issue. General Pace narrow minded view undermines the military and usirps the dignity of gay men and women now serving in Iraq. These men and women, placing their lives on the line for a country that rejects them, denigrades them, and restricts their rights are heroes. Pace, and others who condone his remarks that homosexuality is immoral have not come to grips that their "upbringing" bestowed upon them by their families and serves as a separate viewpoint that should be respected. But not at the expense of gay men and women now serving in a foolish war that he supports.

Other countries laugh at our crippling legacy of bigotry and ignorance and Pace just gave them another sound bite.

Incredible.

Pace's statements only underline the fact that his arrogance is exceeded only by his ignorance.

Unjust discrimination is wrong no matter how you rationalize it. The time has come for this fooish, counter-productive and unnecessary policy to end.

To quote a previous post:

"He is a retarded jackass moron who should keep his foul mouth shut."

Now isn't that tolerant and accepting. Anyone who is anti-Christian can spout off whatever they want and, through judicial process, be free of any type of rebuke or condemnation from anyone else. But if someone who opposes their view speaks out, they are bigoted, hate-speaking morons.

What everyone fails to realize is that all morals come from God. If we discard them, then tehre no longer exists any moral base, and then ALL behavior becomes OK.

If hmosexuality is determined by man to be moral, then why is it immoral or wrong for a teacher to have sex with a 15-year-old? If you denigrate moral boundaries for one group, you have to continue to denigrate it for every other group.

Without the moral standing established by God's word, everything becomes moral and there is no right or wrong.

Pace was right the first time. Societies that go gay are on the way down and will let "anything go" or anyone come in.

who is WARNER???? a nothing but a washington begger from anyone and who is HILLARY OR OBAMA OR ALL THESE HAS BEEN NO NOTHING PEEPS . I KNOW MORE PEOPLE IN MY NIEBORHOOD THATS MORE QUALIFIED TO BE PERSIDENT THAN ANY OF THESE CORRUPT PERKS GEEZE

The proble is in close quarters, gay men and women look at nudes in a different way than "Normal" people. Using the approach of gay advocates, I should be able to walk nude into a womens locker room full of nude women and not feel anything? C'mon give me a break - gay en and women are drooling at the sight of naked bodies just like "normal" people do when viewing the opposite sex.

The last thing we need right now is consideration of this issue, although the foaming at the mouth response from Democrats is to be expected. What's there now works, so leave it alone. There's more important things going on....

I agree with Pace. The military should not play God by deciding which type of behaviour is good or not.

Fred Thomas,
That is the most ignorant argument I've seen since Rick "man on dog" Santorum. Homosexuality is not equatable with necrophilia, pedophilia and homophilia.

Gen Pace was asked his opinion by the Chicago Tribune and now people like the above poster want to bash him for his opinion. That is his opinion. He is entitled to it just like homosexuals are entitled to their opinion. The homosexuals want to jump on people and make them apoligize when they express an opinion contrary to their own. What a bunch of hypocrites. Gen pace don't owe anyone an explanation for his opinion just like the homosexuals don't have to give an explanation for theirs.

Well gentlemen. When all is said and done, we must contrast two opposing facts. One is that the bible is true and all of its teachings. Thus if you follow the teachings of the bible your conclusions are very plain. Homosexuality is immoral.

Secondly, those that do not believe the bible is true and do not believe its teachings or follow them, can conclude only one thing. Anything goes outside of moral restraints and Godly convictions. Any argument becomes truth in the eyes of the beholder and a few that agree.

The problem with the latter is the blatent historical fact that socoeties that are open to all things and allow all things with no moral conviction will fall either from within or slef destruct.

The great thing about the first point is that God's love is what keeps moral conviction, not enforced law.

I believe we should worry much less about what's in a man's pants and worry much more about what's in his head and heart.

Pace is like the truth-speaking child in the story of the Emperor with No Clothes. He spoke the obvious fact that there is a reason there is a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy. The obvious reason is that homosexual acts are immoral, not to mention disruptive in the military. In the fairy tale, the Emperor and people just went forward as if nothing had been said or revealed. If the policy is revoked, it would be as if the Emperor and people REQUIRED nudity and not even pretend clothes are being worn. In other words, one could even make things worse.

General pace talks about morality. Can he moralize the death of 100,000 iraqui. Moralize the sexual advances ofthe malr soldiiers toward their female counter parts. The treatment and care of walter reed patient care.The divorce rate and wife abuse of the returned military at their home base. the violent acys of our soldiers toward civilian personnel. Dont forget abu Gahrib for morality behavior.

a former medic 2nd infantry division world war 2

SEMPER FI SIR!!!!

Here is a profile of a homosexual taken verbatim from the Bible. Read and decide for yourself if homosexual activity is okay.

(Rom 1:26 KJV) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

(Rom 1:27 KJV) And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.

(Rom 1:28 KJV) And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

(Rom 1:29 KJV) Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

(Rom 1:30 KJV) Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

(Rom 1:31 KJV) Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

(Rom 1:32 KJV) Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

We are fortunate to have a man of courage and high morality in this position...he, like all other Americans, has the right to his own personal opinions and thankfully, did not waver from them like "Wind in the Willows Warner" and other gutless politicans. As far as what other countries think about our moral values, take a look at their declining populations, crime-ridden cultures, and financial standing - all a result of misplaced virtures and values. Those who criticize Gen. Pace are in the vanguard of the minority who would see this nation decline as well.

I strongly agree with General pace. It absolutely is an immoral act that serves no life purpose. Immoral and godless fools like Joseph Rotolo that posted his comment should be expelled from the United States as undesireables. If we don't start standing up to these people now, we will fall out of favor with God and rapidly fall into his wrath, as has happened several times before. Note Sodom and Gamorea. Our elected representatives that have attitudes like John Warner need to be thrown out of office. This great country is headed for the gates of Hell. Wake up, America!

two questions;

1) what an individual's sexual orientation have to do with their ability to fight or perform their duties, be they military or otherwise?

2) why, in the name of reason & logic, would our military eject able-bodied individuals from their jobs IN TIME OF WAR, based on their sexual orientation(s)?!

how surrealistically ignorant. silliness like this seems completely in-line with the ignorance that permeates much of society today -- put down the bible/q'uran/torah, america, and stop worrying about what other people are doing in their bedrooms. seems we have far more important matters to attend to right now.

two men or two women having sex together impacts your life and the effectiveness of our military forces not one iota.

Thanks for speaking the truth General Pace. John Warner, a Republican Senator from Virginia, has lost my vote.

Homosexuality is a matter of choice, not involuntary, though the psychologists' "positive reinforcement" comes into play, making protection of children from sexual predators necessary (the primary means for which must be frank parental or guardian introduction of pre-adolescents of both sexes to the "facts of life" and the dignity & boundaries thereof). The ministry Exodus International proves this voluntary nature worldwide.

Choices for sexual dissolution -- fornication -- are not acceptable for disciplined human beings who must live in the unique military relationship, where one's personal life does impact one's professional, because of the intimate relationship of soldiers as comrades for whom deep personal bonding can mean the difference between between heroism & cowardice, between life & death.

Not beside the point also, even foremost, is the fact that homosexuality is antithetical to historic, Biblical ethics: the fountainhead of Western Civilisation, without which there are no enduring, objective standards of right & wrong (and the radical relativism of totalitarian Communism or Fascism obtain free reign) ... the resurgence of which America is suffering today, on the impassioned excuse of "wars" on drugs and terror.

I am amazed that there are people who have so much hatred in their hearts as well as ignorance in their heads to compare Homosexuality with necrophilia & pedophilia. The sad truth is that some of these individuals are probably closeted Homosexuals themselves. Homosexuality has been around since the beginning of time and only in The Old Testiment (where everything is a sin) is it observed as wrong. I can assure you I won't live long enough to see the ignorance of people like some of the ones posting here corrected. But I know in my heart that God made me the way I am and I am definetly Gay. I am also a Christian and I really don't like all of these so-called Christians hating in the name of God.

GOD BLESS YOU GENERAL PACE! NO NEED TO APOLOGIZE FOR THE TRUTH EVER!

I believe we should worry much less about what's in a man's pants and worry much more about what's in his head and heart.

i am an ex Marine and I supuport General Pace. i know what it's like to serve with men in close contact.i think that Janet Reno fired all 93 Asst. attorneyies general when the Clinton people took office.
do we have a double standard?

The more important underlying questions are these:
1. Is ANYTHING immoral?
2. If so, who gets to decide? (By what standard do we judge?)
3. If "right and wrong" is a relative, subjective matter, then doesn't it follow that those who attack Pace's opinion are out of line?
4. What's more immoral: expressing an honest personal opinion, or trying to censor, attack and/or punish those who hold opinions with which one disagrees?

Gen Pace said what really a lot of [people would like yo say but wont

" believe that most Americans agree that most abnormal behaviors such as necrophilia, pedophilia and homophilia are in fact immoral."

Why is it that just about everytime the issue of homosexuality gets brought up people jump right to necrophilia and pedophelia? How is a relationship with another consenting adult at all related to molesting children and corpses??

I whole heartedly throw my support behind General Pace.

We have gotten to the place in this country that "we must be tolerant of everyone -- except the intolerant."

Homosexuality is intolerable. Statistics show that most Americans agree with the former statement, but the homosexual lobby has learned how to yell very loud and they are in control (or at least have influence) in the media.

Shame on us for allowing this country to be tolerant of this and other abhorrent behavior.

For an 80-year "former medic, 2nd infantry division world war 2", Ed Aaron sure doesn't spell very well...

"I believe we should worry much less about what's in a man's pants and worry much more about what's in his head and heart."

What????? We all know what is in every man's pants. What we don't want to know is what he wants to do with it.
And we should be worrying about what's in the head and heart of a homosexual predator who might like to try the military.
Wise up! Troops have enough pressure already. They do not need to be fighting off homosexuals as well as the enemy!

Reader Phil Sammon has perfectly trumped any argument put forth by the supporters of homosexuality. His logic is unassailable. So, would any homosexuals like to try and rebut his statement?

In the immortal words of my drill sergeant way back in 1980, "Who the ---- died and left YOU God?!" I spent 8 years in the Army, 3 on active duty and 5 in the reserves, ending my career as a reserve drill instructor. I left the Army, reluctantly, in order to come out and, in the "moral" sense, to stop having to lie and lie and lie every day of my service.

I knew many gay and lesbian soldiers, enlisted, warrant and officer alike, I knew the late Sgt. Perry Watkins who achieved a landmark victory in 1991 against the Army's gay ban, and it's a crying shame that this kind of deliberate ignorance still prevails. Keep in mind that this Pace character is a Marine, not regular Army, and his comments lend credence to the canard that the USMC is our least intelligent service. Not too bright, Pete.

I live in NYC metro and work in high-tech and am constantly being recruited by companies based in Chicago and the Midwest. Many of the comments posted on this site (see Fred Thomas above, et al., and BTW, Fred, the word is "cowed", not "cowered") regarding this issue remind me why I will not relocate my family to the Midwest for _any_ reason. Your loss, our gain. In the meantime, as good Christians, my gay husband and I will pray for your enlightenment. As for Gen. Pace, he should be immediately relieved of his position and put to work emptying the bedpans of wounded gay veterans.

Good for General Pace! That is the type of fearless leadership this country needs...not the weakling, politically correct, self-serving liberals in Washington (and elsewhere). That was great to read.

Homosexuality is not only wrong in the old testament. Did you dont read the above post by David. All quotes from the book of ROmans which is the New Testament

If you are all going to throw God into this then make sure you know the scripture. God never intended any person to bey Gay and in the Bible it talks about homosexuality and that is a sin. It is wrong and it is immoral. If God says so then i will follow Him.

Would just one journalist ask Sen. Warner if he now thinks that Moses was full of crap. That he strongly disagrees with 2,000 years of Christian teaching. Just ask him those questions and see if he ever wins another election in Virginia. He's just another elitist anti-Christian jerk.

Pace all the way! The truth is the truth homosexuality is nothing but an unnatural manifestation of sexual desire.
Immoral, unnatural, and just plain nasty.

Yep, it's just his opinion.

He has a right to it.

Just like only 40 years ago most people--especially in the South, thought that Blacks and Whites should not serve in the same military, drink at the same water fountain, go to the same schools.

We mock those people for their backward stupidity now--but a lot of people had to die, get beaten or tortured to end it.

Heck, the Bible supported the idea of slavery too.

I'm really tired of waiting for you people to evolve.

Ring me up when you want to get out of the cesspool you call your value system.

Senator Warner in the last years has really
let me down, Ask Warner this if his Kids wherein the Military and had to shower with some queer,

Or if he is in a fox hole with one.

I know I and most of this nation whould not feel
confortable with this.
And how come this type of behavior is has become normal. It is sick

Thank you to the above poster for pointing out that my homosexuality has nothing to do with my ability to fight terrorists.

I love America. I'm a flag-saluting, Constitution-loving, 4th of July-celebrating Eagle Scout. But because I'm gay I've been deemed ineligible to fight terrorists.

So for people who want to get the terrorists, shouldn't we use every person who wants to fight terrorists? Apparently not according to most of the posters here as well as the majority of elected and military officials.

Finally, all of you people who are wearing fabric made out of two kinds of cloth, or had bacon for breakfast...well those are also sins punishable by extreme measures. But, that is the love that you believe God gives. The God that I know loves me and others. I hope you all can find that love as well.

I think this whole homosexuality debate would go away if two things would happen.

1. Religious people need to get it through their thick heads that not everyone believes in their relgion or agrees with their subjective views on morality. There is nothing wrong with encouraging behavior that you believe would lead to better results for society, but there is something very wrong with trying to implement it via law unless virtually everyone in society agrees on the issue (which is obviously not the case when it comes to homosexuality).

2. Homosexuals need to admit that whether their behavior is caused by genetics, environment, sometimes one, sometimes the other, sometimes both, etc.... that it is a behavior that is unintended by evolution. There is no upside to the survival of our species from it. There is only downside because there are fewer children born and higher levels of disease spread because of bleeding during some sex acts etc... Admitting that it is a genetic/psychological PROBLEM would allow moer honest open communication and perhaps lead to more scientists actually trying to discover the gene that causes it or the environmental issues that contribute to it. Then those that are homosexuals that want to could actually eventually choose to be heterosexual instead of pretending to be happy and ramming it all down the rest of out throats 24 hours a day.

JRM SAYS:
" believe that most Americans agree that most abnormal behaviors such as necrophilia, pedophilia and homophilia are in fact immoral."

Why is it that just about everytime the issue of homosexuality gets brought up people jump right to necrophilia and pedophelia? How is a relationship with another consenting adult at all related to molesting children and corpses??
Posted by: JRM | Mar 13, 2007 1:55:59 PM

BECAUSE SIR, THEY ARE ALL THREE IMMORAL!

OH PUH-LEASE --- will you over-zealous nutbars just give it up with your tired bible quotes already!?! That book is loaded with more fiction than the Danielle Steel bibliography. But ok... the bible says so... WHO CARES?! The bible also says it's ok to beat your children and that eating shellfish is "an abomination" -- talk about asinine. Grow up, people.

If they are honest and working for the good of our country, I don't really care about their love life!

General Pace agrees with the Founding Fathers of the United States of America on this subject. So do I. Homosexuality is immoral and anti-social. It is immoral because the Bible unequivically denounces it as such. It is anti-social because it would spell the end of humanity if it were adopted by all of humanity. General Pace is also correct about adultery. These activities are immoral - people are redeemable. It is a fact that we can disagree with a person's actions without hating the person. Thus, "don't ask, don't tell" is not a evil policy. It protects the homosexual and the heterosexual from probable negative confrontations and from situations where a lack of trust could cost lives.
God bless General Pace!

mr. batson; you live in a strange & depressing fantasy world... homosexuality is most definitely NOT a choice, sir.

i am confident that, given a hundred years or so, your kind (meaning, sad, ignorant people who perceive the wondrousness & infinite beauty of the natural world & humanity THROUGH the severely limiting 'filter' of some old book) will be all but gone.

you religious people (christians, muslims and jews) seem so insecure when you fire off bible-based opinions about the lives other folks are leading. do you really have so much time on your hands? is your life so absolutely perfect that you can afford the luxury of assessing & passing judgment on the lives of others?!

fundamentalism seems to be a bigger problem than homosexuality. love is love is love. that's really all that matters in life. how others choose to give & receive it is really no concern of yours.

and who was the genius that first proposed the idea that homosexuality has a different effect on soldiers' performance than heterosexuality?

oh, america; i'd turn you over my knee & spank you if i could. grow the heck up!

Another narrowminded military guy...what are the odds?

Sexual deviancy has always been a moral issue and always will be. It's too bad that the folks who really owe the apology are the very people demanding one.

Those of us who are not burdened with sexual deviancy issues need to be patient and tolerant of those who are (to the extent that they are not inflicting harm on others), and we should try to help them out of their slime pit -- but we certainly do not owe them an apology.

Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Peter Pace did the right thing when he confessed on Tuesday to confusing his personal moral beliefs with national security needs in a discussion of the military’s Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy.

That policy, which requires 65,000 gays and lesbians to serve in secret, undermines military preparedness through the discharges it requires, its adverse effect on recruiting and enrollment in ROTC, and the voluntary curtailment of careers by fully trained service personnel who get fed up with the secrecy the policy requires. The sooner we imitate our NATO allies and repeal this flawed policy the better.

Thomas F. Field
Colonel, United States Army (Retired)

The problem with homosexuals in the military is not if they can fight or shoot as well as others its tha they live in the same rooms and shower in the same shower with straight soldiers. Why should they make straight soldiers have to do this knowing a gay guy is standing looking at him sexually? Straight men get turned on looking at naked women and gay men get turned on looking at naked men. Why don't they just make the women and men bath together. Straight soldiers have rights too. They should not be subjected to this.

I totally agree with General Pace. As a retired E-8, I agrre that there is no need for gays in the military. I wish the politicians would stop trying to apease everyone and anyone who votes. KEEP THE GAYS OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

General Pace said nothing wrong by stating the obvious that homosexual activity is immoral. It is a given. At the same time God calls us to love our neighbors but people are called to reject their sinful urges homosexuality included, but they are entitled to be treated fairly as a person, but not required to have their unnatural activities be accepted.

It is easy to find hatred when speaking on a controversial topic like this, but both sides must resist this temptation and look at the obvious truths and state them kind heartedly.

Pace is right. Period. "Gay" is a euphemism for every homosexual, bisexual, multi-sexual, transgendered, transsexual etc., etc. behavior that no judeo-christian society has condoned in the history of mankind. Someone who acts in such a manner is not a "protected class" and deserves no special consideration whatsoever.

This is the most intelligent statement in this whole forumn....
"Gen pace don't owe anyone an explanation for his opinion just like the homosexuals don't have to give an explanation for theirs."

Maybe we should have an ALL GAY military.

Then the gay community will stop complaining about the rules and the those that find their sexual behavior immoral/offensive won't have to get bombarded with their lifestyle 24 hours a day on every network show, in every newspaper, etc... even though they only represent a small percentage of the overall society.

I think you'll find John Warner is NOT the ranking member of the Senate Armed Services Committee as you say in your blog post. It's Sen. John McCain.

General Pace has my admiration and respect.
The military does not exist as a social laboratory.
The purpose of the military is to kill people and break things as assigned by the Commander in Chief. If we spent more time worrying about the country's enemies and destroying them, we would not have time to worry about the hurt feelings and bruised sensibilities of the pansy class and other leftist fools.

General Pace standing by his remarks are exactly what separates a general from a politician. The only way General Pace will take back or apologize is that he will be threatened behind his back by the spineless ones, that snake around in the political muck.

For the left there is no right or wrong. Everything is based upon the concept of "It makes me feel good to think so." No facts really matter. Just what makes them feel good.

General Pace is as right now as Krulak was years ago trying to get junior Marines not to marry before they were financially secure. The left howled over that, too.

What really get me is this. The real story is the fact that Sen. Warner does not think homosexual activity is immoral!! It is time for HIM to go and quit disgracing the Senate!

The last thing we need is to have homosexuals running around indulging in thier typical pernicious sexual behavior infecting soldiers with HIV and other forms of sexually transmitted disease. The cost of VA medical care would go through the roof.

Even if you are a member of a godless religion, you can see the problems that would surely would come to pass if we permitted such disease-ridden activity to flourish.

General Pace was correct in all that he said; not to mention that was his personal belief and that he was raised in a Christ honoring family. When it is all said and done and we all appear before a HOLY GOD each of us will give an account of what we have done and failed to do both good and evil. We have all been forwarned and you have now been reminded.

What really get me is this. The real story is the fact that Sen. Warner does not think homosexual activity is immoral!! It is time for HIM to go and quit disgracing the Senate!

Jethro, that's where YOU may draw the line, but unfortunately, the "other" aberrant behaviors are making headway. Hide and watch: ten or fifteen years from now, pedophiles and necrophiles, etc. will be "coming out" with pride. You can't simply accept homosexuality as "normal," because it isn't. There's a reason that it's been considered "wrong" for, basically, the history of the world. It's only been for the last twenty or so years that the left has been pushing it down everyone's throat as being an "alternative lifestyle." Unfortunately, the right lets the left define the argument of what's right and wrong, then they fall in line with the left.....Look at Warner: twenty years ago he would have fallen right in line with Pace. Now, he's afraid to, because the left's political correctness has turned politicians into pussies!

IF GOD WANTED HOMOSEXUALTIY IN HIS KINGOM, HE WOULDN' THAVE DESTROYED THE PEOPLE OF SODDOM AND GOMORRAH!! READ YOUR BIBLES PEOPLE. THIS COUNTRY WAS BASED ON CHRISTIANITY AND NOW WE ACCEPT ANYTHING. I STAND BEHIND MY COMMANDER GEN.PACE ALL THE WAY. THE MILITARY IS AN ELITE GROUP OF CITZENS WHICH CARRIES HONOR, DIGNITY, RESPECT, AND PRIDE FOR WHAT IS RIGHT. HOMOSEXUALITY IS WRONG AND WE AS MEMBERS OF THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE SHOULD NOT STAND FOR IT. BY THE WAY, BRING MY FELLOW TROOPS HOME!!!

For Chris Steensma,

Thanks for noting. I see no one has taken up your challenge to contradict the logic I point out in my earlier post. Christians ar the only ones who are judicially forced to be tolerant of other people's views, speech and beliefs. If christians speak out, they are the ones labeled racist, bigoted or as hating some special segment of society.

Any one group can claim that any other group "hates" them simply on the basis that they disagree with them.

Jesus Christ never condemned someone for their behavior. But He didn't accept their behavior if it was contrary to God's word. He witnesssed and preached and taught everyone. But in the end, only those who follow God's word will stay in heaven.

I do not hate anyone. But I believe in God's word that certain behaviors are immoral. That is not hate speech. That is a personal belief in God's immutable word, and does not condemn anyone. I never say that someone is bad or evil because of what they do. The person is not the same as the action. It is the action that is condemnable, not the person. People can always repent and turn back toward God.

People condemn themselves by their actions, inactions, and their beliefs.

Warner has just sung his last song... He would of been better off politically if he would of followed the "Don't ask - Don't tell" policy! Now we know who and what he is... the next election will see him looking for another job!

The General should remember ALL of the "Pledge Of Allegiance." He's got the "one nation under God" part down, but he seems to have forgotten "WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE FOR ALL"

Real soon the people who hold that homo's are imoral and speak out will start being locked up or fined for beleiving the truth of the Bible. You are always going to have people who are christian in name only that do not beleive the Bible which are wolfs in sheeps clothing spreading a false Gospel just like thier fathers who reject the truth. Gen Pace is very correct

What has happened to John Warner, he must be getting senile in his old age, he no longer represents the conservative agenda or morality!
I think it is time we quit coddling gays and
lesbians, let them do their own thing and STOP
trying to teach our children about their life style, if they are so dam sensitive that's their problem. Straight people don't get all that attention. L. White

This subject is quite easily settled without using my religion as a tool, although I do believe in the barring of homosexuals based on my religious beliefs. First, we must discuss the "slippery-slope" theory. In a nutshell it says that if you allow one act, eventually that will lead to a more undesirable effect later on down the line. Now lets apply this to homosexuals being allowed to serve in the military and becoming married. Once that has been allowed, what stops a man or women from marrying two or even ten people? Why is that so horrible, but gay marriage is not? Or Why can't a 40 year-old man marry a 14 year girl or boy? The reason is because we base our entire society on morals and values. Once we leave morals and values out of our system, we will eventually follow the same path that so many societies before us have fallen into were anything is acceptable. It is time we stop living in a society that tells us, "as long as it makes you happy, than its ok."

I am not religious and I could care less what the Bible says about homosexuality but I too believe homosexuality immoral. Not only is it immoral, it perverted, disgusting, dirty behavior. Human beings should know better.

What is the source of moral behavior? Remove God from the equation and we are all just animals. There is no right or wrong, just societal norms. That is what the left wants...no right...no wrong. What then is next?

Gen Pace was asked his opinion. He gave it. How dare he! And the left responds with hate filled vitriole? Now seriously...who is being bigoted and intolerent?

Someone here asked "who died and made him God?" Answer...no one. God is still God. God still declares right and wrong. God has declared homosexuality immoral. Dont fault General Pace...fault God.

And people wonder why the Republican Party and this country are in trouble. Politicians like Warner are the reason. This country desperately needs more men like General Peter Pace to run for higher office. Sadly, the corruption and weak spine required for high office would probably disqualify Pace.

How funny that all of these so called "Christians" seem to forget that it is the same Bible that has scripture that states that slavery is ok, a woman is sinning if she braids her hair. I wonder how many of these folks know that there is atleast one homosexual in their immediate circle of people that they come into contact with everyday? God Bless America and God forgive those who choose to judge!

Real soon the people who hold that homo's are imoral and speak out will start being locked up or fined for beleiving the truth of the Bible. You are always going to have people who are christian in name only that do not beleive the Bible which are wolfs in sheeps clothing spreading a false Gospel just like thier fathers who reject the truth. Gen Pace is very correct

Bravo for the General. It is long overdue to stop pandering to the Gay lobby, especially since their ultimate agenda is not civil rights but acceptance of the lifestyle and shoving it down everyone else's throat. Warner is worried about votes, nothing more - he doesn't have to sleep in the barracks or share the foxhole.

Patricia,

I think your remarks are very beautiful, but not very practical. You state "I believe we should worry much less about what's in a man's pants and worry much more about what's in his head and heart"

Sadly, as a man who tries to be upright, I can assure you that what is in a Man's heart and head is pretty well influenced (and often governed) by what's in his pants. Sweet soliloquies about how we shouldn’t have to wrestle with this debate over sexuality aren’t going to get us anywhere.

I’m astonished how people can’t acknowledge what an excellent compromise exists in “Don’t ask, don’t tell.” While I respect that it doesn’t move the gay rights agenda forward at their desired radical pace, the military has some very realistic concerns about moral (not morality – just a little different). The introduction of openly gay soldiers and the social dynamics of romantic and sexual interest that they would create provides for a whole awesome soap opera of difficult situations. Men who need to trust each other with their lives can’t afford that kind of elephant in their closet.

I do not believe that homosexuality is a moral lifestyle. But, I could share a cubicle with a gay guy and have an acceptable working relationship. I could shake his hand and be pleasant about day-to-day things. I could even listen to his troubles with an ex boyfriend stalking him (although I would be hoping for a very short conversation).

I could not take a shower with him, and I really would not want him in my locker room at the gym. I can only imagine the distress of those soldiers and how their sense of team would be shattered by openly gay troopers among them.

Homosexuality is indeed "immoral." God calls it an "abomination." That settles it for me. I'm proud to be politically incorrect!

"Woe to those who call evil, good, and good, evil; who put darkness for light and light for darkness..." Isaih 5:20, Holy Bible God has condemned homosexuality. The heathens who war against God continually say the sodomites are okay. Ever see a pedophile who wasn't homosexual?

Bravo for the General. It is long overdue to stop pandering to the Gay lobby, especially since their ultimate agenda is not civil rights but acceptance of the lifestyle and shoving it down everyone else's throat. Warner is worried about votes, nothing more - he doesn't have to sleep in the barracks or share the foxhole.

Not immoral?

In summary, sodomites are wicked and sinners before the Lord exceedingly (Gen. 13:13), are violent and doom nations (Gen. 19:1-25; Jgs. 19), are abominable to God (Lev. 18:22), are worthy of death for their vile, depraved, unnatural sex practices (Lev. 20:13; Rom. 1:32), are called dogs because they are filthy, impudent and libidinous (Deut. 23:17,18; Mat. 7:6; Phil. 3:2), produce by their very presence in society a kind of mass intoxication from their wine made from grapes of gall from the vine of Sodom and the fields of Gomorrah which poisons society's mores with the poison of dragons and the cruel venom of asps (Deut. 32:32,33), declare their sin and shame on their countenance (Isa. 3:9), are shameless and unable to blush (Jer. 6:15), are workers of iniquity and hated by God (Psa. 5:5), are liars and murderers (Jn. 8:44), are filthy and lawless (2 Pet. 2:7,8), are natural brute beasts (2 Pet. 2:12), are dogs eating their own vomit and sows wallowing in their own feces (2 Pet. 2:22), will proliferate at the end of the world bringing final judgment on mankind (Lk. 17:28-30), have been finally given up by God to uncleanness dishonoring their own bodies among themselves, to vile affections, and to a reprobate mind such that they cannot think straight about anything (Rom. 1:23-28), have wholly given themselves over to fornication and gone after strange flesh (Jude 7), must be pulled as faggots from the fire (Jude 23), and have no hope of Heaven unless they repent (Rev. 22:15), which they can't do in their prideful state (Jer. 6:15). They need to hear this truth if they are to have any hope of penitence, faith in Jesus Christ and salvation (I Timothy 4:2-4).

Boy some of this stuff is really laughable! But most of it is just plain sad.
The truth of the matter is simply this: That in the end; all will know and understand the real truth: Like it or not. Me, I perfer to side on the truth as it is written. That way even if when I die that's all there is to it, I've lost nothing. To those who choose not to believe, you risk everything. Because once its over, it's too late to change your mind. And in case you don't understand: I agree with General Pace.

General Pace has an opinion that is at odds with some in this country. So what? Sen. Warner's opinion of Gen. Pace's opinion is more than that. It is wrong for a senator to chastise the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs for expressing an opinion about policy in the military. What the general said is factually correct, to accept homosexuality as moral would be violating man and God's laws. This is not the first time that Sen. Warner has demonstrated his equivocation. More than likely it was done to gain favor with his gay constituents, who permeate the Beltway scene.
I believe that Sen. Warner is becoming a bit senile and maybe he should retire.

I respect General Pace's comment about the immorality of homosexuality. He was obviously brought up with christian values, and he is entitled to have his own personal opinion about immoralities. However, pre-marital sex is also immoral.. or sex before marriage. If he, and those who agree with him, adheres to a high moral standard, should he not also prohibit unmarried heterosexual military personnel to have sex or for any military personnel to have promiscuous sexual lifestyle? Besides, the last time I checked the Bible, those are also immoral.

For those who are taking the moral pedestal, please look into the mirror and ask yourselves that question, and please try not to be hypocritical.

I always knew Sentator Warner was one smart and sensitive man.

Dropping multi-hundred pound bombs on civilians = in the interest of freedom (it happens, look at the Casualty Producing Radius on the weapons we drop from thousands of feet)

Thinking gay people are people with the same rights as the rest of us = evil

ANd that is a good way to summarize the right wing position on everything. You people are destroying the country. Let fire some more Arabic linguists because they like it in the butt... idiots.

I am an atheist. I am in full support of General Pace.

Making a moral distinction is different from hating.

Ethical frameworks are based on values. What do you value?

If you are rational, logical and value human life (as I do), you must make a moral distinction (however large or small) between heterosexual and homosexual behavior.

When our military goes into war, the goal is to kill all of them and bring EVERY ONE of ours home. Social engineering of our military is not consistent with this goal.

Homosexuals are "immoral"? Compared to what? Compared to the HETEROSEXUAL triangle of astronaut Lisa Marie Nowak and al? What about THEIR unit "cohesion"?

People must understand that tolerance and acceptance and hatred are not the same. I can tolerate gays in the military, but I do not have to accept it. But when one crosses the bridge into the realm of hatred...it makes the person who hates as bad as the thing he/she hates. From what I read, it seems the General tolerates gays in the military, does not accept it, but is far from the hatred that I have read on these posts.

Quincy's post - "General Pace narrow minded view undermines the military and usirps the 'dignity' of gay men and women now serving in Iraq."

Pardon me, but I don't see what's 'dignified' about a man bending over and taking it from another man. The General has his opinion and although I don't doubt our gay soldiers' desire to serve their country, it is simply a distraction. Example: Being a jerk is not right, but this doesn't prevent jerks from being allowed to serve. Gays should be allowed to serve in the military, despite homosexuallity being a twisted practice. Let the General have his opinion, don't get all bent out of shape.

does anyone care about the effect on the effect on the troops and their ability to defend our nation? radical left dogooders have no business screwing up the military.

Hmm. ...comments are " reviewed first in an effort to remove foul language ...and unfair attacks"????? really? and Steven calls the chairman of the Joint Chiefs " stupid, moron, jackass etc" ??? so I guess calling Steven nasty, foul-mouthed and disrespectful should be ok. Sounds like Steven is way tooo sensitive, angry, hateful and obviously has a problem with someone, other than himself rendering an opinion, or not agreeing with his agenda......and he gets very angry about it. Gen. Pace was giving his opinion. Call it personal, call it professional. He EARNED the right by being an American, much less an Americam who served his country for 30 years. " Steven" needs to grow up and learn TOLERENCE. Get it Steven?? TOLERENCE. Something you don't have apparently.

Did this hit on some kind of Christian activist search engine or what?

If the military prosecuted every soldier, sailor, airman or marine who slept with another person out of wedlock (which is just as much a court-marital offense as homosexuality is under the Uniform Code of Military Justice), I believe few persons would be left in the Armed Forces. Certainly there wouldn't be nearly enough for us to remain the world's policeman.

For, such adulterous behavior is also "immoral". However, the military often just looks the other way in such cases...probably because so many of those who would do the prosecuting of such "crimes" are themselves, equally guilty.

I think the operative word in all of this is "hypocrisy".

A morals lesson from a man who has made his career a study in how to kill or, worse yet, how to have others do it for him? I think not.

For all those who are against allowing gays and lesbians serving in our armed forces, how do you explain the fact that many other nations -- most notably the U.K. and Israel -- allow gays to serve openly in their armed forces, and those countries have not suffered as a result of that policy. Isn't the U.K. withdrawing some of its troops (some of whom are gay) from Iraq because they pacified Basra? Aren't some of our soldiers fighting along side openly gay British soldiers in Iraq? And, what about Israel? Israel has one of the toughest militaries in the world and does not exlude gays from serving their country. How do you explain that? Are you saying that our fighting forces are not mature and professional enough to handle gays serving along side them? That speaks volumes about your opinion about our military!

So, is John Warner saying that homosexuality is moral? And that having openly homosexual men in the barracks and BOQ's will not have an affect on those who are not? That it won't affect recruiting?

Oh, my. This is the same Warner who was Mr. Elizabeth Taylor, right? Another Hollywoodism...

I take it then, by the "uproar" created by BigMedia, that only homosexuals and their supporters have the right to comment upon others' behavior. "Freedom of speech is only for my side, not yours," or as Orwell said so well, some pigs are more equal than others.

I think we should unleash a division of lesbians at that time of month. The war on terror would be oever in a month.

Keep up the good work General.Senator, start doing your's

"Homosexuality is not equatable with necrophilia, pedophilia and homophilia."

Yes it is.

funy thing that happened on the way to a war ? Which morality does Pace speak of? I can understand his oppsition to gays in the military being religous based ... however what is so moral about being in the KILLING business ?? where is the morality of a warrior who kills in a "pre-emptive" war against a percieved enemy? Why are US troops dying to support an ISLAMIC nation? Why don't Christians see the failed policy of supporting Islam and an the Islamic state of Iraq? The Iraqi constutition states that Iraq is an ISLAMIC state.

Does the Bible condone homosexual behavior? No.
Other than earthworms, there are two sexes for reproduction of the species. Intercourse between same sex individuals doesn't result in offspring. Therefore it is unnatural. If it were natural, all species would have died out millions of years ago.
Is sodomy or butt-F...king moral? No.
I applaud Gen. Pace and hope he has the backbone NOT to be force to got thru the pathetic apology crap. What's next? Sent him with Brittany into rehab. Maybe Barney Frank will be the daily discussion leader.

History, western civilization, and Christian teaching are on the General's side. I salute his bravery to verbalize what most Americans believe.

Put me down with General Pace. I am sorry he even tried to tone down his rhetoric about the issue. What he stated in the first place was absolutely correct with no chance of error at all. Anyone with any education and has any common sense knows that homosexuality and lesbianism is immoral conduct based upon almost all Religious groups consensus from history, as well as God's book the Holy bible of the Jews and Christians, as well as just plain "horse sense" and "street common sense"!
All mankind has certain destructive and harmful habits and ways which have to be curtailed or controlled and if not, serious consequences come from it. Just name them: stealing, lying, cheating, greed, adultery, fornication, killing, physical abuse, pedophilia, prostitution, poliamy, drunkeness, drug addiction, you name it! We have to teach our children not to steal, lie, cheat, harm others physically, proper sexual conduct etc., or they will do wrong. Apparently those who support homosexuality as a acceptable action have never had to raise a child or deal with issues at all throughout their life! Or else they just want to "indulge" their lower nature lusts and desires at the expense of others and harm others! Homosexuality as a practice is wrong, is evil, is sickening, is repulsive to the normal person! Medical science knows this but due to political pressure from "monied" groups have backed down and hidden now about it all! No Proof, exists at all, that this practice is normal and a person is obsessed with this stuff from birth! Yes, all of us can be Hitler's if our base instincts are not trained and controlled. Did you know that? So, homosexual tendencies are to be controlled and actually not encouraged or else they come out to some extent and more in other people if fanned and promoted! So, those children under environmental and social conditions at their homes which promote such will certainly get involved to some extent and perhaps start a habit that is not easy to break! Thousands of Homosexuals have been delivered from the desires to live like this and that is proof postive that a person can change and does change thus stomping totally in the ground the concept that it is a genetic matter! Foolish thoughts! But who will admit it when facts are there? No one that wants to be polically correct and those who are greedy for money! But facing facts and truth in education and science you will have to admit people are changing, have changed and can change from this habit thus destroying the concept you are born with it and that it is genetic. If you can change then if it is genetic you can by choice change your genes! That is crazy! Now that one science has shown can't be done by mental thoughts!

So let me get this straight, (no pun intended), then that means that penile-rectal sex between two males is MORAL? I'm no Bible thumper by any means, but that seems to be their point, and if that's the case, what does 'morality' mean really? Lets just take it out of the dictionary. I think it is ones own busines what sexual orientation they are, but don't start trying to play off that homosexual behavior IS moral! I applaud the general for standing up to the gay rights lobby's bullying.

This comment is for Phil Sammon,

Thank you for displaying your complete ignorance!

In the Great USA there is a seperation between CHURCH and State...it is not the position of any religion to arbitrarily dictate to a diverse population what its "morals" should be.

Our laws are based on REASON...not just some blind faith in what's written in a book!

We dont allow murder because it undermines society and order

We dont permit stealing for the same reasons....beacause there is a RATIONAL behind it!!

What is the rational behind stating homosexuality is IMMORAL besides BLIND FAITH....even the moron Pace had to clarify it was his personal belief because he had NO REASONING to back up his point of view-that's bigotry

Furthermore, your argument is so flawed...you claim that the Bible is the sourse of all morality

Would you advocate having laws criminilizing adultery?? (P.S. that's one of the 10 Commandments-unlike homosexuality)

Your comments are moronic and would lead to a society run by faith and NOT REASON...please get a grip

Guaranteed that everyone FOR gays in the military have either (1) never been in the military, (2) if they were in the military, they were never in a combat unit (whether they "deployed" or not), (3) are atheists, or (4) a combination of the above. Has anyone bothered to ask those serving in uniform? There's a big difference between having someone "immoral" (to use Gen Pace's words) in the next cubicle from you in the office where you have a choice to engage with them or not and having them in the next foxhole where you have no choice but to live, fight and, God forbid, die with.

As a conservative Christian I am pleased to see that they're are so many involved in this discussion that still hold God's Word in high regard. Yes, homosexuality is a sin. It is immoral. And as a society it should not be accepted. But as we look to God's Word with regards to homosexuality let's not overlook those parts of the Bible that speak of God's compassion and love for all of us, including the homosexual. Surely Christ died for him (or her) for the same reasons that He died for me.

Again, I am a very conservative Christian, but I do believe that the lack of compassion that the Church has historically shown gays and lesbians is a principle reason for the militancy that we see evidenced by the gay agenda in our culture today. Heck, it's even led Mr. "eddie" from above to believe that God made him gay. A misconception proven false by ex-gay men and women.

I would encourage every Christain church to spend less time condemning homosexuals and more time ministering to them. No one ever came to know Christ and Lord and Savior because someone called them a "sodomite".

I find it hard to beleive with a war going we would disrepect any soldier. If the military does not want gay men or women simply make a law saying no gay men or women allowed period. This whole keep it a secret crap is bs. Sure you can come and fight and die for this country but if we find out your gay your going home. Land of the free but a**!

Because those who are immoral do not wish to think less of themselves, they try to cower everyone into accepting their immoral behavior as normal. You see this as well in adultery. Gen. Pace made a very good analogy. I believe that in their conscience, they know that what they are doing is immoral.

What I cannot believe is that Senator Warner would oppenly express that he does not believe homosexuality is immoral? What? If homosexuality is not immoral, then nothing is immoral. There is no right and wrong. Whatever makes you feel good is okay.

Until gay activists cowered a slim majority of those in the psychiatric community, homosexuality was also listed as a mental disorder, just as depression is a disorder.

Yo, where's my post? Your narrative above this window says that comments are posted immediately. It has been 5 minutes. That isn't immediate. The post shown was at 2:17 PM That was almost an hour and a half ago. Wake up now. Your on break and just screwing off.

To those who feel the homosexual behaveur is "natural" TELL ME how you reproduce again?
I must have missed that one small fact in sex ed.
The bible aside, any arguement for the natural homosexual ends right there.
If you like your own sex, that is your wish not your genes. deal with the truth and the pain will go away.

When we continue to draw lines that divide people into different groups then we continually seek to deprive ourselves of what we really are. . . We are NOT a homogenous citizenry. On the contrary. We come from all corners of the world and have different cultures and orientations. To liken homosexuality to necrophilia and pedophilia is absurd. To say that its a moral issue is absurd. Homosexuality is a God - given gift that allows us to experience the full breadth of the human experience. To discriminate on this basis is too narrow minded and myopic. Let's be thankful that there are homosexuals willing to serve this president and his war. Lets get out of people's personal lives and let them live. I thought this was the land of the free? Aren't soldiers dying for 'our freedom'? Why do we degrade their sacrafice with continued bigotry? Why do we take away people's freedom at the same time we are saying that this is the freest nation on earth? Come on people, THINK!

How many genders do we need to allow for when billiting our members of the military? How many of you at 18 or 19 would be willing to start rooming with someone that found you sexually attractive? The idea isn't same or other sex, the main portion of the problem of sexually active deviants in the military is how to house them. Gay men, I guess can room with lesbians, but what do we do with the bi's? They always live alone?

With the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" as long as they're not offering to participate in some unnatural act the only person suffering is them. If they start offering, they're asked to go home. Then they can move to that "special" part of town where such activity is more acceptable.

Oh, and one more thing. I spent 15 years in the military and don't remember that we had time to run around naked so we could have anyone sneaking a peek.

After I grew up a "baby boomer" I realized there were real "Archie Bunkers" who were like this sitcom character that drove "Meat-Head" crazy.

They openly made fun of blacks, gays, jews and they seemed to think they were the defenders of the Constitution and mangle scriptures from the Bible. But, like "Meat-Head" I would be sickened by this behavior - I nick named them "Archie" and tried without success to teach them my morals like my parents taught me.

My earliest memories of the lessons my parents taught me in the 1950s was them being appalled at how cruel one group of people can be to another. It was drilled into my heart & mind "we are all created equal, God loves us all the same and we should love others as God loves us."

Political correctness is ruining our country. While I've had gay friends and family all my life, it is killing me inside to see politicians change their minds 'when there is a political uproar' in our nation.

Today the U.S. Congress spends most of their time investigating each other, running each other down and campaigning for the next election.

In the Congressional hearings our elected officials make speeches in order to exploit the wrong they feel the person before them has done - then they ask a question.

Isn't it the truth we want? Isn't it the cover up and the lying that gets us in trouble?

General Pace's courage to be honest about what he believes is scary - almost as scary as a land-mine. But it doesn't mean he is not trying to protect everyone in the military community.

Many young people today believe it is only the "Christian-right" or evangelicals who beleive homosexuality is wrong - but that is not true out here in the real world.

There are the "Archie Bunkers" or rednecks in towns across this nation who never go to church, read their Bible - they drink beer and watch TV and they are still afraid of blacks, jews, gays and they butcher the constituion and the Bible while they speak.

General Pace is not an Archie Bunker. Senater Warner is now a poll watcher whom I believe is afraid so he changes his mind.

Free Speech '2007' is not fair speech most of the time.

Free speech today is threatning speech - A form of voter blackmail. Do we really want everyone to be honest?

Pace was right....As for Warner...Elizabeth Taylor must have rubbed some of her Homosexual Pheromones under his nose and he now has a little limp wrist showing in himself....The Virginia Elitist.....Always thought he was a little soft in the palate besides being one of "THE GREATEST RECTUMS IN ALL OF DIARRHEA".....Bugger on!!!!!!

Eddie,
As far as your comment towards ignorance. You must have missed the scriptures in the New Testament. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, for instance, says,

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

I agree that we shouldn't hate, but please don't convey false information about the Bible.

When the draft is put in order don't worry about running to Canada kids, just say you are gay. They can't accept you, Right?

"Did this hit on some kind of Christian activist search engine or what?

Posted by: Jeff C. | Mar 13, 2007 2:33:01 PM"

You are believeing your own propaganda. Sodomy is widely disapproved of among Christian and non-Christian alike. There are numerous health and mental reason to frown upon sodomy wholly separate from religious reasons.

Sad, sad, sad. The Bible was written by men, with many translations over many years. For anyone to believe that what's read in your standard hotel Bible is the word-for-word, verse-for-verse word of God is asinine.

The overarching message of the Bible? "Love." Love of Christ, love of God, love of your fellow man, regardless of the sin (that whole 'let he without sin cast the first stone' unpleasantness). But, like everything in life, some folks just need something to hate. So they use the Bible as a reason for hating something they know very little about. "If the Bible says it, it MUST be true!" The Bible is contradictory, but the theme is clear.

So many people get caught up in arms over trivialities. Clay Runnels wrote that homosexuality "is anti-social because it would spell the end of humanity if it were adopted by all of humanity." Do you honestly believe that the whole of humanity would decide to go gay should homosexuality be considered moral?

Those people who feel that homosexuality is a choice, I posit the following; have you ever felt compelled to choose between feeling attracted to a person of the same sex versus a person of the opposite sex? As a straight man, I can unequivocally state that I feel no sexual attraction to other men. I've never felt the need to choose. If a person feels they have to "choose," then they're already homosexual, when you think about it. If they choose not to bed with people of the same sex, they're repressing their true feelings for the sake of appearing 'normal.'

Ah, General Pace! Ah, humanity!

Thank you General Pace for saying what many believe. Someone has to have the courage to call immorality what it is. The Bible is clear on this subject and those who say otherwise have God's word to face either now or in eternity. God's word does not change.

If you wish to posit two possibilities, one with the Bible being true, the other with the Bible not being true, and you twist the latter to imply that there then is no such thing as morality and everything is allowed, then you must agree that the former proposition requires that you adhere to ALL laws of the Bible, since they are true. So, what time does the stoning of adulterers begin?

It's about time someone with some courage said that homosexuality is immoral. That's been the case for centuries. Part of the problem with this country is that all kinds of immorality are not just allowed, but encouraged. And to be honest and say that some of these things are immoral, like homosexuality, is like placing a bulls-eye on your head for the liberal media and the ACLU to shoot at. They have so much power that most people just back down and apologize. I am pleased the general has not apologized, nor should he. That doesn't mean we are going to attack homosexuals as people or persecute them. But we sure are not going to advocate their immoral lifestyle. No one has a fit and asks them to apologize or step down when they offer their opinions. What's good for the goose should be good for the gander. Oh, that's right, these folks get to play by different rules than the rest of us.

Now it looks like Gen. Pace is sorry for disrepecting the 65,000 gay men and woman defending this country as we all type. I wish he'd just pull them out. So what if we lose the war.

"The Pentagon's top general expressed regret Tuesday that he called homosexuality immoral, a remark that drew a harsh condemnation from members of Congress and gay advocacy groups.
In a newspaper interview Monday, Marine Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, had likened homosexual acts to adultery and said the military should not condone it by allowing gays to serve openly in the armed forces.

In a statement Tuesday, he said he should have focused more in the interview on the Defense Department policy about gays _ and "less on my personal moral views."

He did not offer an apology, something that had been demanded by gay rights groups.

"General Pace's comments are outrageous, insensitive and disrespectful to the 65,000 lesbian and gay troops now serving in our armed forces," the advocacy group Servicemembers Legal Defense Network said in a statement on its Web site."

Terrible how backwards things are.

The question ought to be "in what way would allowing open homosexuality into the armed forces help the United States?"

I don't know who started the rumor that a Military ought to be an equal opportunity provider.

My open letyter to Sen Warner

I am taking strong exception to your critique of General Pace calling homosexual behavior immoral. You are wrong, he is right.

If an activity, when joined into it by every member of society, leads to the total destruction of such society, how can that activity not be immoral???

Homosexuality is an aberration (sickness??) that should be treated as such, not set on a pedestall, because it has threatened politicians with "politicaly correct" implications.

You are a coward, not in a position to critique a man for naming an aberration what it is.

As a former Infantry Officer in the Army I can say that known homosexuals in an infantry platoon will lower the effectiveness of the unit. This is not due to the ability of the person that is homosexual, it is due to how the others in the unit will react to him. The same is also true if a female soldier were in an infantry unit. It is not about the ability of the one person, it is how the one person affects the fighting ability of the entire unit. This is not car sales, this is ultimatly about possibly VERY brutal warfare. One person can not be allowed to diminish the combat effectiveness of the unit in the way that a homosexual man or a female member of that unit would, it will cost lives. This is from the perspective of a combat unit.

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
1 Cor 6: 9-11

"I'm a liberal democrat and I believe that homosexuality is bad and should be outlawed. I also believe that the federal government should defer all laws to state governments except when they involve interstate issues. This includes abortion and what is taught in public schools. I also believe there is not 'separation of church and state' in the constitution, rather that every person has the right to worship as he/she chooses."

What make the above statement non-sensible? To say I am a liberal democrat then rattle off a list of positions that are contrary to the liberal democrat mindset. I can't redefine what a liberal democrat is just because I feel like calling myself one, and any true liberal democrat would be totally right in criticizing me and stating that I am not a liberal democrat.

The same is true for persons who want to follow their own thing yet call themselves Christians. Christians, by definition, are those who follow Christ and His teaching as laid out in the Bible. Why do people disobey clear teaching in the New Testament, yet still insist on calling themselves Christians? Clearly the book of Romans (as well as other places in the Bible) say that homosexuality is a sin. Anyone who continues in sin cannot be a Christian. If you deny the authority of the bible, at least you are honest with yourself, and you are free to believe what you want. Only you will have to deal with whatever comes if the Bible turns out to be true. However, to say you are a Christian, and a homosexual, or a fornicator, or a liar, or even a worshiper of Buddha makes no sense. As a Christian, I am within my rights to say you are not a Christian, so stop calling youself one.

What if I claimed to be a homosexual, but I have no affections or sexual desires for my same sex. Same thing.

Must side with the General. The politicians don't serve and therefore don't care. We who serve know, military ethos, values and morals aren't perfect, but we are better and must remain better than the average brainwashed liberal.

The General is correct!!!!

"Ever see a pedophile who wasn't homosexual?"

Umm... most pedophiles are older men preying on little girls. Put down that bible and read some scientific research for once.

Sen. Warner is disregarding the majority of Americans who believe that homosexuality is an immoral lifestyle. Gen. Pace did not say that homosexuals are criminal, evil or psychotic. He puts it in the same context as adultery; a sexual choice that causes harm to any society. It is not the fault of the majority of homosexuals, only the activist few who have made it their life's work to destroy traditional society, family values, and Judeo-Christian teachings.

Of course homosexual behavior is immoral---just ask Mother Nature and the CDC.

Jeff C said: "Did this hit on some kind of Christian activist search engine or what?
"

No Jeff, the facts are contrary to what you hear in the liberal media, there are many conservative evangelical Christians in the USA. The media is always trying to silence our voice, but I assure you that we will not be silenced and we are going to begin to turn this nation back to God and again become the nation our Founding Fathers created us to be. The media and aClU has so decieved people regarding the "separation of church and state". Mark my words my friend, God is about to move in a huge way in this nation and no matter how hard the liberal media and the aCLu try, they will no longer be able to keep God out of the school and the government. The days of liberalism and anti-morals are coming to an end.

As far as what General Pace said, I applaude him. I would love to see more high standing respected individuals speak up about this abhorant behavior. Homosexuality is not caused by a gene or genetic pre-disposition, it is plain and simply SIN and it flies in the face of God. You can choose not to believe in Him if you wish, but one day when you stand before Him your own words will condemn you and it will be too late. As far as those who say they are Christians and homosexuals, they may be that way now, but if they are truely followers of God, He will change them and over time show them how reprehensible that behavior really is. Yes, it is sin just like any other sin, but as Christians we are called out of sin, so please stop hiding behind the notion that God is okay with your sin. Go and read Romans, those verses that someone cited above are excellent to address this issue. The Bible both Old and New Testaments clearly state that homosexuality is SIN. And for those that say well then, eating shellfish is sin too, do not understand the Bible and need to back and read it some more. Jesus fulfilled all of the Old Testament Law on our behalf so that we would not have too.

The homosexuals had better pray (yes PRAY!) that Pace wins this war... because, the muslims will behead & de-head the homosexuals the moment they catch them. Apparently the muslims have free-speech and can say they do not like homosexuals, where we are bigoted and mean-spirited if we say such a thing. I say "Oy Vey... smile.

Evolution does not favor homsexuality. If we have evolved we have gone from asexual to sexual reproduction. Therefore if evolution is our standard then homsexuality is self destructive and the opposite of survival of the fittest. So, Bible or evolution, it is still unwise behavior. It is unhealthy to have anal intercourse, casual sex, fornication, adultery. These behaviors often cause physical and or emotional problems. It should not be publicly condoned for our children's sake. Although, we must treat all people with respect as human beings. We are all sinners, but this does not mean that we must support the behavior.

In an all volunteer military why do gays serve if the policy is so discriminatory to them.... Patriotism ?

General Pace needs to keep speaking the truth. He needs to keep following his heart and the Bible and call for all Blacks and women to be removed from the military. The Bible does not tolerate the intermixing of races nor does God permit women to have the same station in society as men. The Bible speaks this truth of God dozens of times. If America does not remove these immoral people from our military now, we are all going to Hell!

Federal LAW doesn't say, "Don't ask, don't tell." That's an idiotic Clinton-created POLICY. The LAW says: no homosexuals in the military, PERIOD! And that, emphatically, is the way things should stay.

Right on, General Pace. Semper Fidelis.

Salute and Semper Fi to General Pace for telling the plain simple truth. Homosexual activists and their sympathizers simply cannot stand to hear the truth.

Medical and social science document that individuals who engage in homosexual behavior experience dramatically higher incidence of domestic violence, mental illness, eating disorders, substance abuse, STDs, life-threatening diseases such as AIDS, cancer, and hepatitis, and premature death by up to 20 years.

One thing our armed services emphatically do not need is the open practice of behavior associated with such pathology.

Thanks again to Gen. Pace for telling the truth and looking out for the best interests of our troops. Will the Commander in Chief have the same backbone?

I'd just like to throw this in here. One thing I have against homosexuals in the military is putting them in the same sleeping quarters as other males is kind of like putting females and males in the same bunk together, considering how these individuals might (note the "might", please) react. This would, I think, create quite a bit of stress among said individuals, and I don't think our soldiers need any extra of that.

Also, for all of you Christians out there, homosexuals who don't know God are humans. They are just acting according to the natural inclinations (like "jumping on the bandwagon." Homosexuality, whatever it is, isn't a natural phenomenon, in my view) and other individual influences in their life. Without God, they really have no need or desire to do anything except what comes naturally, so you can't really expect them to do anything other than what they are doing.

On a personal level, I wholeheartedly agree with the good General. I see no need to condone homosexuality, and I don't think it is a thing to be encouraged, whatever the case.

You are believeing your own propaganda. Sodomy is widely disapproved of among Christian and non-Christian alike. There are numerous health and mental reason to frown upon sodomy wholly separate from religious reasons.

Posted by: Jim West | Mar 13, 2007 2:47:33 PM

And by health reasons to frown upon sodomy separate from religious ones I will assume you mean HIV, which has been noted in the posts by our lovely commenters that have found their way to The Swamp this afternoon.

HIV can be transmitted through heterosexual sex as well. Should we abstain from that and frown upon it for fear of contracting HIV/AIDS? Or does your rhetoric only apply to same-sex situations?

If Sodomy isn't immoral then what is. I wonder what Lot,s wife thinks? warner is a RINO. What he thinks does not matter. Even Liz couldn't stand him.

so it's OKAY to go to war UNDER FALSE PRETENSES, but not okay to be gay? what a jackass

As little Mr.Personality is in Latin America making things worse,i wondered,what zany wacked out 25 % of Americans still support this idiot.

Duh.Like a ton of bricks!

To gay drill sergeant, 1980: "the USMC is our least intelligent service"? Where do you come off with this asinine statement? I served with the Marines in Vietnam, then put myself through college and law school. During the Vietnam era, the Marines I believe were the ONLY service to require at least a high-school diploma!

General Pace was simply asked for his opinion, and he gave it. Too bad you don't agree with it. Just "suck it up" (pun intended). The only other thing I have to say is "OO-RAH"!!!

John Warner's comments are one of the biggest reasons why United States senators make lousy Presidential candidates, and as a Navy retiree I agree totally with General Peter Pace.

After all, the military is here to fight, train for and win wars and is not the place for stupid social experimentation, and those who would advocate for open homosexuality in the armed forces need some form of reality check as it would drive morale into the ground.

Good Lord, you people are something else! The Reagan-Bush generations are well in evidence here. BTW, posting here does not anonymize your email address - heads up, Tribune Web developers - and I see that several drive-by posters, although happy to light flaming bags of dog poop on this virtual doorstep and run and hide, don't have enough of the courage of their convictions to use their real names or their real email addresses, making it convenient to hide behind their mommy's coattails as they lob grenades at those of us who have progressed into the 21st century. I suggest you start praying for the Holy Spirit to speak to your hearts; in the meantime, I'm grateful that I don't have to know you.

Pace is 100% right, homosexual acts are not only immoral, they are unnatural sex acts. Warner needs to get a grip...or go to rehab.

As a veteran of the USAF SAC, I salute you sir!!!!!

Jethro,

You must be completely dillusional. The majority of fair minded individuals in most societies most certainly can and do equate this lifestyle choice with necrophilia, pedophilia and homophilia. I suppose using your logic, we could then say it's perfectly normal for a man to make love to a cow. Who are we to discriminate, right?

Larry

I don't understand how some of you can quote the bible as if it were unwavering truth. Don't you see how irrational it is - how much it contradicts itself. There is very little proof or evidence that substantiates anything ever said in the bible. Who has evidence to say that most of it is nothing more than a series of stories made up by archaic "politicians" who used their power to take control of the masses? These writers, although leaders in their own time, were highly uneducated compared to today's standards simply because we had not yet discovered many important things about our world.

I think that it is rediculous that you reject the findings of Harvard-educated PhD scientists but you blindly accept something written by someone who had no more than the equivalent of a current-day 3rd grade education. I do recognize the wonderful things that Christianity has done for us, however, unless it changes with the time, the future of Christianity will be even more laughable than it is today.

"That is the most ignorant argument I've seen since Rick "man on dog" Santorum. Homosexuality is not equatable with necrophilia, pedophilia and homophilia. "

Posted by: jethro | Mar 13, 2007 1:42:14 PM

My question is what makes you think homosexuality is morally superior to necrophilia, homophilia, and pedophilia? Doesn't that make you ignorant and intolerant by the same measure you judge those who oppose you? Who are you kidding? You are all indulging your sexual "prefernces" against all natural law and the laws of God. There is a new life with new desires for those who embrace forgiveness through repentance by the WAY that God made through the sacrifice of His son, JESUS. He made the WAY because HE LOVES YOU and desires your freedom from this destructive CHOICE.

Bill wrote: "Guaranteed that everyone FOR gays in the military have either (1) never been in the military, (2) if they were in the military, they were never in a combat unit (whether they "deployed" or not), (3) are atheists, or (4) a combination of the above. Has anyone bothered to ask those serving in uniform?"

So, I will ask again, what about Britain and Israel? As we all know, the British have done a great job in Iraq, fighting along side our men and women and pacifying Basra. And, do we even need to talk about the strength of the Israeli military?! Israel and Britain both allow gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military. Thus, our soldiers are fighting side by side with openly gay British soldiers in Iraq. To Bill and the others who want to toss gays out of military simply because they are gay, why do you believe that American soldiers are less mature and less professional than their British and Israeli counterparts? Why do you have such a dim view of our soldiers? They can kill terrorists, but they can't handle serving with gays?! Please!

I am getting so tired of hearing all this gay talk.I personally would not to be in the same barracks,or fox hole with a gay male.Keep it to yourselves.

Everyone seems to stand very firmly behind their beliefs, be it that homosexuality is a choice, or that it is ingrained in individuals. Also, they all seem very sure that they are correct as to whether or not it is immoral. Obviously this proves that different people have different beliefs and we can't always all agree. I have no problem with any person expressing their beliefs on God, or morality, or homsexuality, or baseball, or medicinal marijuana, that's what makes this the best country in the world. People need to learn to deal with the fact that we are not all the same. If you're really living for God as a good Christian, you should know that He'll do the judging of your soul and that of every living thing when the time comes. We should all worry more about living our owns lives as best we can. In other words Gen. Pace has the right to say whatever he believes and should face no judgement for it except that of God when his time comes. The same goes for homosexuals, no matter what any of us believe to be right or wrong.

Posted by: Publius | Mar 13, 2007 3:03:43 PM
General Pace needs to keep speaking the truth. He needs to keep following his heart and the Bible and call for all Blacks and women to be removed from the military.

Publius, I have no idea what Bible you are reading, but it is certainly not the Word of God. You must be reading the Koran or something.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that we should not marry other races. You are taking that way way out of context. The reason God told the Israelities not to marry other races was because those races were involved in deep levels of immorality (homosexuality, beastiality, etc..). God did not want His people being married to them because they were worshipping false gods and practicing false religion.

That view you have is a backwards Nazi type view that has nothing to do with the Word of God, please spoke speaking hate and deceiving people into what Christians believe. I do believe that God clearly tells Christians not to marry those other other religions but no where does it say that we can marry those of different color or race. Paul makes it real clear that those in Christ are all one and the same, and there is no issue with it.

As far as your view of women, I am not even going to say much other than read your Bible and see how highly Jesus regarding women. You are way off base dude.

Whether I agree with Pace or not, I strongly support his free speech right to say what he believes. The gay faction strongly believes in its right to free speech, doesn't it?

I think we should gather all the homosexuals together and number and tatoo numbers on thier arms. Wait better yet let's tatoo numbers on their arms and put them in some caged camps. No wait, wait let's tatoo thier arms and gather them in camps and when we get them all even the teenage children we just kill them all.

I think this is what God would want us to do. No?

Whether I agree with Pace or not, I strongly support his free speech right to say what he believes. The gay faction strongly believes in its right to free speech, doesn't it?

Gen Pace simply reiterated his intent to enforce the congressionally-mandated Uniform Code of Military Justice, which considers homosexual acts against the law.
If congress wants to O.K. homosexual acts, they shouldn't have outlawed it in the Code. If they have changed their minds, then change the Code. Don't ask the Chairman to enforce some laws but not others.

Pace for President!!!!!

The military regularly grants "moral waivers" to admit recruits who have criminal records. Criminals are fit for service, but gays aren't? Kind of deflates the "we do not tolerate immorality in any form argument", eh?

Gen Pace simply reiterated his intent to enforce the congressionally-mandated Uniform Code of Military Justice, which considers homosexual acts against the law.
If congress wants to O.K. homosexual acts, they shouldn't have outlawed it in the Code. If they have changed their minds, then change the Code. Don't ask the Chairman to enforce some laws but not others.

As a former Marine, of course, I agree with the general...don't ask, don't tell is a good policy

"did this come across some Christian web site?" Some people are ignorant and know it. Normally they keep their mouth shut. It's the ignorant who think they are educated because they watch CNN and know the latest on Britney and Brad/Jolie who don't know how ignorant they are and can't shut up. They haven't learned from history because they don't know history. All they know is that they "feel" tolerant while bashing anyone who thinks homosexuality is immoral. It's all in the desire to live just any way they want and not have to answer to God Almighty. Yes He's a loving God, that's why Jesus died on a cross and rose again. But if you reject Jesus, then .........

so it's OKAY to go to war UNDER FALSE PRETENSES, but not okay to be gay? what a jackass

Posted by: gaymarinemom | Mar 13, 2007 3:05:22 PM

Gary, Gary, Gary:
I am sick and tired of hearing that same old liberal whining. Your liberal friends (Hillary, etc.) signed off on going to war with Iraq. So shut up and quit whining about it.

We are justified to be over there, it is a righteous war to set free many 100's of thousands of people who had no voice when the mad-man ran things in Iraq. Now he is dead, and once we catch and kill Bin Laden, and do some other things that I won't mention here. the muslims will finally get a clue and stop messing with the US, and God. God is about to bring allah to His knees and islam is going to fall.

Thanks Dan Scotts -

Couple of counterpoints to your earlier post, refrence my earlier post:

Our society DOES allow murder...on demand in fact. Otherwise abortion would be illegal.

The "rational" that you keep refering to, where does it come from? If you believe in evolution, then the strong would survive, at times, by stealing from the weak, so it can't be from that. Exactly what source does your rationality come from? Some times it is rational to kill someone, if it means ssaving your family or a loved one from imminent death or serious harm. But that is not murder. Thous shalt not murder is the commandment, not simply kill.

So, If not from evolution, then from a Creator, who would have planted that into our heads, as God has done.

I don't claim that the Bible is the source of morality, it IS the source of morality. Jesus plainly and openly states that homosexuality is an abomination unto the Lord. Christ does NOT condemn the person for their act. But he does not condone the behavior or accept it. God gives each of us free will to choose His way, or another way, out of His love for us.

We all have the opportunity to repent from sin, every day, and turn back to God.

And in 5 states right now adultery is illegal. and it is so in many other countries as well. I have a grip, sir. I would like to see more people on this thread rise above the petty and demeaning (to them) comments of outwardly attacking a person based solely on their opinion.

And in case someone is keeping score ont he number of veterans who comment, I served proudly in the Navy for 12 years, and knew of several gay sailors.

To whomever said that "homophilia" belongs in the same category as necrophilia and pedophilia, get real! I am in my twenties, and there is an article in the NYT magazine this week about how my generation is the first to by and large look favorably upon gay unions... thank God!

When Canada legalized gay marriage, a small but somewhat vocal minority made predictions that the nation was hell-bound, the children would suffer, and all of this type of thing. Gays and lesbians in the Canadian Armed Forces, and the general population are accepted. The issue is over and forgotten. I don't know why some Americans feel it is necessary to worry about consenting adults having sex. It's a waste of time and irrelevent.

Is he looking for an excuse to retire? That's all I can think. Pace is too smart to just say something like that these days and not think it will result in calls for his resignation. I think he is setting himself up for a nice well-paid retirement job with The Heritage Fdn or someplace like that. To get that he has to throw Conservative America a huge bone and look like a martyr. This it seems is a great way to do it, and also gives him the chance to resign. He already has full pension and he's right at the end of 5 years as Chairman, which traditionally is when the Chairman of the JC resigns. I am sure he does not want to push through 'til '09, presiding over a losing war in the Middle East.

I do wonder though if he discussed this with the Vice-Chairman of the JC, "Admiral G". Take a look at their entries on wikipedia: Peter Pace and Edmund Giambastiani (the vice-chmn). It becomes a little clearer perhaps what is going on here. Frankly I think that Pace is doing all this quite deliberately and for very specific reasons.

Good order and discipline. Our military leaders down to the squad level do not need to worry about who is sleeping with whom, or who is looking at whom, or who alledgedly grabbed whom. They need to worry about killing our enemy. By Allowing gays openly in the military, you might as well make everything co-ed. And if you can't name ten things that would be bad about that in a war environment then you are pretty ignorant.

Our military is not some social experiment.

Kudos to Senator Warner. The United States is the only Western country with such an outrageously bigoted ban on openly bisexual and gay servicemembers. Israel actively recruits in the gay community, as does the UK and Canada. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with being a good soldier. In fact, according to polls, the overwhelming majority of Americans agree that gay soldiers should be able to be open about their sexual orientation. Pace's comments reflect the primitive, ignorant view, and he knows it. It is on its way out, but the old Neanderthals are gonna grumble anyway.

And I challenge ANYONE on this thread or from anywhere else, to point out the words "separation of church and state" to me from the Constitution.

They are not there. That phrase camae from a letter Thomas Jeffeerson wrote to a New England clergyman in about 1803 explaining that his intent in the First Amendment was to make sure that the government could not establish a church and then force everyone to go to it. He never said that the government could not have faith in it, or that Christians should run and hide from government, or that the government could not openly show its faith in the God who helped found this nation.

He did NOT intend that it be used against Christians to sanitize our government from the very roots of the Christian beliefs of the overwhelming majority of signers to the Declaration of Independence, the drafters of the Constitution, and the men and women whose blood fed the tree of liberty to make this country.

General Peter Pace’s view that homosexual acts are immoral is his opinion and he has the right to have that opinion and he said he supports "don't ask, don't tell" so what's the problem.

Actually the real problem is the military allowing gays to shower and sleep in close quarters with non-gays of the same sex. The military doesn't allow men and woman to do the same do they?

Maybe the military should create special separate quarters for gays where one gay female rooms with one gay male. How ridiculous our world has become.

Homosexuality IS immoral. Kudos to General Pace for speaking up. Read up on your BIBLE - there is no question about it - it is an abomination before God.

So gay groups want the General to say he is sorry. Hey, I wish a lot of folks had said they were sorry to me for things that offended me. If gays are looking for someone to say they are sorry, try seeking it from the gays that enjoy sticking thier "gayness" in the face of every straight man, woman and child they can. They do it just to be nasty. No one really cares if you want to be a pervert. Just get back in your closets and stop adding to the already festering sewer mankind has created.

How about this:

We'll give the state of California (we'll throw in Oregon and Washington just for extra credit) to the "gays" and everyone who believes that homosexuality and other immoral behavior is "okay." They can also invite those who side with "pro-choice" and liberalism. You can form your own little country and we'll leave you alone and on your own.

After four or so years we'll all that land back and we'll be able to reclaim it for the good ol' USA.

Why?

Because after 4 years of HIV/AIDS, killing your offspring, STDs and other behavior that will invite murder and suicide there won't be anybody left. That's the culture liberals want, but they never consider the consequences.

First of all people need to understand that it is not hateful to condemn a behavior as immoral. It is not hateful to say that child abuse is immoral, or that murder is wrong. No hate there. The general is correct in apologizing for expressing his personal opinion on such a public stage. As a representative of the joint chiefs, he should probably restrict his speech, but that is the extent of his folly.

I personally don't care if you are or are not homosexual, but I know others who do care, and so do you. Why invite possible judgements and criticism? Most normal people don't go around telling everyone their most intimate personal decisions on a whim especially if to do so might place someone in an awkward position.

Not one has looked at the fact that Gen. Pace supports the current "don't ask, don't tell" policy. It's of NO concern to anyone what someone's sexual persuasion is. It shouldn't even be an issue. In other words, keep it to yourself!

On an equivalent note, I don't appreciate all you liberals equating the struggle for civil rights that Blacks went through to homosexuals' problems. A homosexual would never have to endure insult and injury if he/she just kept it to himself/herself. Blacks, on the other hand, cannot hide their skin color.

To suggest two guys or gals getting it on and/or for that matter a man or lady with another person's partner is acceptable is immoral and outrageous. Pace is right in his personal views! Wake up America!

I just HAD to comment about the idiot that was holding up "ex-gays" as some indication that God didn't create people to be gay.

PULEASE!!! There is no such thing. People that say they are "ex-gay" are only doing it for convenience sake...they ARE gay. They are just trying to hide who they really are. It is a COMPLETE lie for people to say they are no longer gay, if they truly were.

I AM gay...I did NOT choose to be Gay. I am also a Christian and believe in God. I know he made me who I am today. Nothing you bible thumping idiots can say will change my feelings on this.

It's a shame... all of these Christians who love to judge. That's in the scripture to ya know, judge lest thou be judged.. It's easy to forget because it screws up your bigoted arguments. This man is a bigot pure and simple, there is nothing Christian about homophobia and as we are beginning to see those that preach against homosexuals are no better than those who preached about the biblical truths of the inferior races.. soon enough these close-minded individuals will have to put their ignorance behind a white hood where it belongs.. disgusting behavior from people who obviously only practice a faux morality indulging in the sin of judgment and persecution. Shame on you!!! Stop marginalizing citizens and pretending you are moral or a believer in America.. You are a theological zealot with more in common with middle eastern countries and not the evolved beauty of the democracy you pretend to be defending.. Gross, mean-spirited and low..

Just a clarification for the arm chair lawyers out there on two points.

1) The establishment clause of the Constitution does mean that religious people or ideas cannot be in the public marketplace of ideas, the halls of government or even in legislation. It does mean the government cannot establish a single religious entity as the national religious entity and support it with revenues. While further court rulings have taken this a step farther in proposing a kind of government "neutrality" in favoring one religious belief over another it has never said that people or ideas should be excluded from the process of government simply because they are religious.

2) The term "separation of church and state" is not found anywhere in the Constitution but rather in a document from Thomas Jefferson (who himself attended religious gatherings on federal property) to a group of Baptist Christians assuring them the government would not interfere in the free practice of their religion because there was a constitutional wall that fobid it. In other words it was to protect religious believers from the State and not otherwise.

Thank you General Pace... for making a tough statement that needed to be made. You have guts and for that, I salute you. You did the RIGHT thing rather than the politically correct thing.

Senator Warner, along with many more Senators and many Representatives need to understand. They do not have the priviledge of defining immorality. That definition is written in stone and has been judged since man has existed by the Creator of all we see. How presumptuous can a person be--to dare to try to declare moral or amoral that which God has declared immoral. Senator, one second after your heart stops you will know what a tragic mistake you have made. And you, and apparently many others, will have an eternity to consider your error. May God have mercy on your soul.

"When Canada legalized gay marriage, a small but somewhat vocal minority made predictions that the nation was hell-bound, the children would suffer, and all of this type of thing. Gays and lesbians in the Canadian Armed Forces, and the general population are accepted. The issue is over and forgotten. I don't know why some Americans feel it is necessary to worry about consenting adults having sex. It's a waste of time and irrelevent.

Posted by: mike sloan | Mar 13, 2007 3:24:50 PM"

I certainly wouldn't want to live in Canada. Promoting unhealthy life choices isn't the government's business. Sodomy is an unhealthy practice and should be shunned for the health of the nation, not promoted like it is now. I am afraid this country is becoming more like Canada all the time and that's a shame.

Well if the General believes in the bible like most people in this country it also says its a serious sin...so according to the fabric of what makes up this country it is immoral.....I dont neccesarily believe in this however, but just the same that is the way it has been written and believed for centuries.

Pace, Thank goodness we have men like him running our armed forces.

The armed forces have no place for immoral people aka homo's.

At least 10 Arab linguists have been discharged from the military since 9/11, and even the most staunch conservatives acknowledge that our intelligence powers are limited due to a backlog of untranslated Arab documents and correspondences. Meanwhile, military recruiting standards have been lowered so that the armed forces reach their recruiting goals; people with spotty criminal backgrounds and citizens in less-than-perfect health are now allowed to serve and protect.

When we discharge people who could really help us in the War on Terror, and allow people in who may not be able to properly serve and protect their fellow soldiers, you know we've hit a new low in this country.

Let's battle the real enemies -- the terrorists -- and start realizing that we're fighting for a free America that values diversity, tolerance, understanding, hard work, and, most of all, a willingness to serve. Those gay soldiers in the field, as well as those discharged gay linguists, just want to help their country. Let them, and let them do it openly.

General Pace's feelings about Gay relationships are based on the typical Christian teachings from the Bible and in the United States we have the right of freedom of speech and Freedom of Religion and he has a right to his opinon and if some one does not agree with him thats there right as well.

Nothing humors me more than when a homo tries to use the Bible to back up their point. Especially, when paraphrasing the Laws of Moses.
Nothing does more to further my cause than for a homo to quote scriptures from the "Bible". Homos hide behind the word love and even drag Jesus Christ into the issue by saying he tought all people to love one another and that he was a tolerant guy. There is nothing Jesus Christ can do for you b/c he is dead. I killed him over 2,000 years ago. I love it when a homo claims to be a christian or a minster. America is slowly falling into my hands just as Sodom, Babylon, Gomorrah, & Rome did. Soon the world will be mine and I will reign as king over it. There is no such thing as morality.....SEE YOU IN HELL!!!!!!

Tolerance does not mean acceptance! Openly gay people in the military would destroy it from within - enlistments would be down and we would be a laughing stock. Such experiments have never worked in the past. The homosexual mafia and pressure groups are hell bent in making homosexuality the norm and straight people the freaks -- liberalism is a mental disorder!!

This general represents a dying breed of incompetent brass in the military over the last 25 years whose antiquated selfserving way of thinking is quite the achilles heel of the military. Yes, they are his views, unforunately, when he forces his views on others to influence policymaking, he opens himself up for ridicule. He deserves as much anguish over this as they can dish him out. 73% of servicemen and women polled are comfortable with homosexuals/lesbians serving in the military. almost 10,000 expelled from the military for homosexuality in the last decade, a large number of them arabic linguists. this policy as is ucmj is completely outdated.

General Pace is right according to God. Can't get higher in authority that that! Us Christians, though are to "love the sinner, hate the sin!" The don't ask, don't tell is about as good a policy as we can have in today's military.

As a U.S. Navy veteran let me tell you that open displays of homosexual affection would not be tolerated on a ship on deployment. Men have to share very limited space with one another including showers and berthing areas. I would not want to have a gay guy watching me get dressed any more than any of the women posters want me to watch them. Creepy!
Homosexuals can serve now with no problem it's called "Don't Ask Don't Tell". A gay man on a ship that makes a show of his homosexuality better know how to tread water.

Publius, lighten up. If it weren't for Blacks working this land that White people were too lazy to work, you wouldn't have the USA.

Not really. Just wanted to give you a little sample of how ludicrous and small-minded you sound.

General Pace must have forgotten that the people that generated the only federally protected disease, aids., are also a protected group How dare he criticize their behavior. Why didn't he criticize a group that is a politically correct group to criticize. Such as christians.

What's immoral about two adult males having intercourse with each other's oral and anal cavities?. In our "anything goes" society nobody has the right to tell me what's right or wrong no matter what the majority thinks. My partner and I sometimes urinate and deficate on each other. Sometimes we ingest each other's offerings. This is not immoral since we both consent to it. I'm a member of our local YMCA. I get turned on watching naked men walking around and in the shower. This is not immoral since I am a man and have just as much of a right to be there as a hetrosexual man. The toilet stalls face directly towards the open showers. Sometimes I sit in a stall and peak through the crack between the door and the frame and observe other males showering. Is it immoral for me to sit there and masterbate because this turns me on? No, because I didn't force them to walk around naked. To be honest, I did the same thing when I was in bootcamp. As long as I didn't tell anyone I was gay I could do whatever I wanted to in that stall. Sorry, that's not immoral.

The Bible also says we should slay goats, stoene people, not eat pork, and enforce the Sabbath on SATURDAY - which is for spending time with family and not playing golf with our friends or watching NASCAR. Incidently, Mel Gibson fans, it also says the Jews are the chosen people.

You can't pick and choose the passages in the Bible according to your prejudices, fears, and repressed feelings (see that gay preacher or gay Republican congressman).

God laughs at the Christian right - cowards who are absolutely free to say whatever they want (God Bless America), especially so right-minded people who extend God's love to everyone (especially consenting adults) can laugh at them and how backwards they are.

What's the divorce rate up to now (including among the Christian right and Newt Gingrich with his mistress)?

But that doesn't undermine marriage! Adults doing something in the privacy of their home does, though. Silly.

Maybe we NEED some gay people to go over and clean up Iraq, because the U.S. military has surely made a horrific mess of it.

Pace is a great leader. I condemn Senator Warner for his condemnation of a free American's Constitutional opinion!

You know what has absolutely no moral value? Spouting off words you memorized in Bible study.

If Jesus hadn't ascended, he'd be rolling over in his grave to see what Christians do and say in his name.

Sitting on the problem only begs the question. With the redefinition of all values, we are all immoral. We thus share guilt equally. Today, sex has nothing to do with morality. Sex is just an act without value. How you handle sex is where the problem is, if you listen closely to our cultural deconstructionists. By their logic, questioning choice is where the fundamental problem begins. Thus all behaviors are OK, until we begin to draw attention.

The forces that have led to the deconstruction of western civilization have raised the level of risk of the general population to the point of extinction. We are beyond the point of managing the risk associated with high risk behavioral dynamics that support life. The resultant void will be met with the utmost constraints upon our population groups.

The pathology of psychopathy instructs us that those individuals which manifest complete indifference to their acts or behavior show signs of a lack of internal conscience over their transactions concerning the other. When all acts are reduced to moral indifference, then we have a society that is subject to exploitation and predation.

I love the hysteria caused by General Pace's comments. The entire America hating leftist kook fringe, particularly their useful idiots in the Washington press corps, actually "think" that the U.S. military should celebrate homosexuality as a religious sacrament of their leftist fundamentalist religious cult. Just imagine if the U.S. military was lead by these U.S. military hating fanatics and their Hillary Clinton "values". Frightening.

I am SO tired of the mind set that anything that was writen in the Bible is so antiquated... That is does not have a relivence for the times we live in now.

All I can say is I CAN NOT wait until judgment day final gets here and let GOD decide if homosexuality is "wrong" or not. Since Mal 3:6 states that God does not change, it will be nice to see what the outcome will be.
I really does not matter what "we" as humans think about morality. Look where "mans" views of morality the past 6000 years have gotten us. I'll just wait and see what happens on judgment day!

I find it hilarious how people assume "Don't ask, don't tell" actually works. I served my country. I am a heterosexual. I can tell you without a doubt that there were several gay people (both male and female) in my division (strangely, at just about the same percentage as the national average) and EVERYONE knew who they were. It wasn't any more distracting than the 20 year old male and female couples that couldn't keep off eachother. In fact, it was less distracting because they were forced by policy to hide their preferences.

As for the immoral, God doesn't like it stuff, I don't presume to know what God likes. Other than what Jesus says, which is to love your neighbor and not judge him/her.

Everyone I served with was judged on their ability to perform. Not who they slept with. As it should be. I supported "don't ask, don't tell" more to protect the homosexuals in the military than the heterosexuals. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but that doesn't mean it is right or you need to thrust it on others.

If "Bible is the source of morality, it IS the source of morality"

Am I immoral to believe in many gods? If Hindu, Buddhist, and athetists are immoral (according to this and Pace's logic), should they be banned from the military because they might "effect" the performance of the Judeo-Christian soldiers? Should we treat them as second class citizens?

Great another government boob, just what we need now. Where do we dig these people up ??

After reading some of the ridiculous, ignorant, backward, intolerant comments on this board, I feel that this page should be accompanied by the banjo tune for the movie, "Deliverance".

Please, if you are going to demonstrate such blantant ignorance for all to see, learn how to spell basic words. Not even the big words. Small words. Thank you.

Mike Sloan ... Are you really comparing the Canadian Military to the American military? Are you for real? Put your head back in the sand and stay there.

There is a reason why the American Military is the best in the world, and it is because they do not partake in social experiments like gays openly serving in the military. If gays really want to server their country, they can keep their mouths shut and do it with distinction like all the others in the military.

Kathryn, grow up. Liberalism (nor most liberal ideas) has never been successfully implemented in any country. Canada, France and the Neitherlands come immediatly to mind as failures. Do some research on their systems of government, and tell me that they are superior to our's.

typical of the gay minority, henry j, to present distorted facts to legitimize your/their position.

fanaticism is a convenient label, homosexuals. parochial? afraid? bigoted? uneducated? all very convenient labels used to describe anyone that views homosexuality as an aberration, as a sexual deviancy. if you don't succeed in giving me a negative label, if you can't convince society that i'm a bigot, or that i'm behind the times, or that i'm unenlightened, then you have no way of assailing my beliefs. your bark has no bite. some bright homosexual lawyering there, guys. by the way -- who ever said heterosexuals were "afraid" of gays? that's the greatest myth the homosexual community has ever propagated. by succeeding in portraying distaste for their lifestyle as "fear," masquerading the general, majority belief, homosexuals could begin to leverage an irrational response. they could justify "awareness" campaigns to address this public fear. fear, unlike distaste, unlike a simple lack of approval, a failure to endorse... fear is something that we're conditioned to address. to overcome.

henry j used the israeli military as a model for accepting, open treatment of gays. i would counter by saying theirs is a policy that's perhaps more invasive and restrictive towards gays than our own. a quote from an article on the matter in the atlanta journal-constitution:

"The Israeli military denies discriminating against homosexuals but acknowledges that they are subjected to psychological testing."

According to Liora Moriel, the leader of Israel's ONLY gay rights organization, "Usually they (Israeli soldiers) don't get promoted if they come out of the closet or if their lifestyle is revealed."

nice try, henry j.

"Read up on your BIBLE - there is no question about it - it is an abomination before God."

Everyone can take magic books and shove 'em.

The gay advocates have done a great job labeling everybody BIGOTS and RACISTS who claim Homosexuality is IMMORAL.

This is the same tactic ADOLPH HITLER used when people disagreed with him.

First, I agree with the gentleman who pointed out that General Pace was asked his opinion, and it was expressed honestly. Any condemnation of his right to express his views is hypocritical. As a 20 year veteran myself, I've heard the same feelings expressed in relation to military service many times. I personally believe that it is narrow minded, but that is my opinion.

Second to the many who wrote that anyone who doesn't believe in the bible is amoral, that is bigotry. I don't believe in god, or the bible, but that doesn't mean that I automatically believe that anything goes. Remember "Turn the other cheek"? Remember "Sitting with the Tax Collectors"? "Judge not lest you be judged?"

It's too easy to get wrapped up in religious zeal and forget the message of acceptance. That doesn't mean you need to approve, but there are many homosexuals I have known who demonstrate more "Christian Charity" than those who wear the badge of Christianity on their chest.

It should be noted that several of the posters to this thread are doing so using their corporate email systems on company time. Stealing is immoral and un-Christian.

For those who have the gall to imply that homosexuality and Christianity are incompatible - I have been saved, born-again, washed-in-the-blood since I was twelve years old. My rock-solid Fundamentalist church taught me that once you have accepted Christ as your "personal Savior", your name is written in the Book of Life and that nothing can come between you and the everlasting love of Christ.

I do not hold that my sexual orientation cancels out my salvation; rather, it is a sign of God's work in me: "I will praise Thee, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made... My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret... in Thy book all my members were written, when as yet there were none of them." (Psalm 139, KJV) If anyone can point out to me _anywhere_ in Scripture where Jesus Christ plainly said or even implied that gays were doomed to the Lake of Fire and/or that His salvation was limited to heterosexuals, I will gladly leave my Sodomitic ways behind and join a monastery.

My earlier remarks about the Marines being perceived for many years as the branch of service that's as dumb as a box of rocks was misread by the poster who responded - I said it was a "canard" (look it up!) that Pace's comments unfortunately reinforce. OOO-rah to you too; I love that sound that jarheads make when they're taking it up the butt in the BEQ.

Finally, for those who think that gay men can't look at another naked man in a barracks, pup tent, field exercise or locker room without going after his sex organs: GET A GRIP AND STOP FLATTERING YOURSELVES!

That's where Sam Nunn went off the rails in 1993 on national TV ranting about "sleeping quarters and shower rooms." Preposterous. Most straight guys in the military are extremely unattractive to anyone with a gay eye, and this thread, although entertaining, has gotten FUBAR. Much like the ossified, unlettered, regurgitated, first-grade sentiments expressed by the majority of posters to this thread.

Mike Sloan ... Are you really comparing the Canadian Military to the American military? Are you for real? Put your head back in the sand and stay there.

There is a reason why the American Military is the best in the world, and it is because they do not partake in social experiments like gays openly serving in the military. If gays really want to server their country, they can keep their mouths shut and do it with distinction like all the others in the military.

Kathryn, grow up. Liberalism (nor most liberal ideas) has never been successfully implemented in any country. Canada, France and the Neitherlands come immediatly to mind as failures. Do some research on their systems of government, and tell me that they are superior to our's.

Thank goodness for people like Pace that aren't elected. He doesn't have to sell himself out to get votes like Warner. Warner, your a piece of garbage.

Why are people so afraid to take on the " so called Christians." The Christians that forgot to love one another, to avoid judgement, care for the poor, not murder. It's time to face the fact that America is corrupt. greedy and hypocritical. IT TWISTS THE WORDS OF RELIGION TO JUSTIFY ITS GREED, RACISM AND BIGOTRY. The Spanish did the same thing when they attempted to "bring God to the indigenous people of America and all they brought was greed, racism and slavery." Sound familiar? Please moral high ground I think not. You religious bigots better watch out because I know where you are going its too bad it will be too late to realize your hatred and greed in the end will BE YOUR UNDOING.

Oh, please.

I am so sick of the gay agenda and the majority being cowed, demonized and browbeaten by a microscopic minority.

It used to be that gays hid their behavior and status, because society viewed their behavior as immoral, and THEY viewed their behavior as aberrant and immoral, as well.

Through the continual repetition of lies, manipulation of laws, courts and legislative bodies, bombardment of media and old-fashioned, bit-by-bit chipping away at the wall, they have managed to put forth this phony idea that being gay is no different than being straight. Horsepucky!

While there are a few true homophobes around, the vast majority of American citizens are completely disinterested in gay society and its behavior. Truly, nobody cares what you do in your bedroom.

But please stop insisting to everyone that this behavior is normal, healthy and moral, and insisting that they accept it as such. It is none of those things.

So, if you are gay. How in God's name can you say you are a Christian, when the Bible says that act is immoral, and against GOD? Can you point me to a verse in scripture that says it's okay to be a homosexual?

This issue was debated in 1995 magazine article debating "don't ask don't tell"... a gay soldier "shared foxhole" with his "partner" and they went on patrol "holding hands with each other." There's nothing wrong with that the writer said. As a Vietnam veteran myself I'll tell you what's wrong with it: I wasn't given opportunity to "share a foxhole" with my girlfriend (or even a female Marine); I wasn't given opportunity to go on patrol holding my girl's hand. A Navy friend tells me of the homosexual male shipmate taking shower; the homosexual looked forward to quiting duty and going to the shower room; my Navy friend wants to know why he wasn't allowed to shower with a good-looking female. The answer to his question: Beyond being a moral issue, this is obviously a CIVIL RIGHTS issue. Heterosexuals will be openly discriminated aginst if homosexuals are allowed free reign in the military, plain and simple.

If I were in the armed forces, I would not want to be sharing a bunk with a homosexual man. Accepting open homosexuals into our military would be a major distraction to the mission at hand.

How odd that General Pace has spent his entire adult life fighting to give all Americans the right to freedom of speech. Now, he is told he is not allowed to have any personal views nor can he support the current policy of the US government. He is told he must conform to the views of a small group of people who hold money and power over corrupt politicians. The thought police are coming to get you. Free speech is dead in America, only fringe beliefs will be respected. Hang tough, General Pace. Don't worry about the old guy who was Elizabeth's Taylors 8th husband. When Elizabeth Taylor dumps you, you know you are Hollywood. The US military family supports you now and forever.

it's amazing how many of you people here are educated in biology to speak so authoritatively about what choices 10% of the population have made.. Martin Luther King and Coretta Scott King both saw the gay rights movement as being part of the entire civil rights movement. It is about civil rights and I find it mind-boggling that people who have been persecuted choose to do the same with ignorant slip-shod arguments from their sexist, racist King James Novels.. I believe in God but God and Christians have nothing to do with each other.. Christianity is idolatry...

but none of this has to do with my right as a genetically-born homosexual to live unfettered from bigots who obviously have no understanding of morality, from the the hodge-podge of bumper sticker ignorance, judgment, slander and violence against an entire group of people supported by the "Christians" here.

Hello People:

When did we start to label sin as bigotry.
Bigotry is in regards to ethnicity. It is not a sin to be Chinese, Japanese, African, German, American, etc...

It is a sin to participate in homosexual activity. Just like it is a sin to lie, cheat, steal, murder, etc...

It is sin because it is rebellion against God, which He puts His laws in place to protect all peoples including the homosexual person.

Did we as Americans lose our morals somewhere along the line.

Polls indicate that the majority of young adults and teenagers support gay rights, including gay marriage. Moreover, polls and surveys indicate that the majority of well-educated and affluent people support gay rights. IN contrast, opposition to gay equality is highest amongst the least educated, rural, Southerners, and older people. So, anti-gay sentiment is associated with being poorly educated, older, and rural, not exactly stellar demographics for such views. The younger, well-educated generation is very accepting of same-sex unions for the most part. The gender that someone loves is irrelevant to us. Anti-gay views are for the ignorant, primitive-minded and reflect a deficient intellect.

"Not one has looked at the fact that Gen. Pace supports the current "don't ask, don't tell" policy. It's of NO concern to anyone what someone's sexual persuasion is. It shouldn't even be an issue. In other words, keep it to yourself!

A homosexual would never have to endure insult and injury if he/she just kept it to himself/herself.

Posted by: ddennis | Mar 13, 2007 3:31:06 PM

Fine ddennis, but lets be fair and balanced about it. Kick out any heterosexual that mentions their sexuality. Make them keep it to themselves too.

we're fighting for a free America that values diversity, tolerance.

Posted by: Robert | Mar 13, 2007 3:37:46 PM

Barf. I wouldn't fight for these. These are Marxist catch words. Diversity is the death of a nation and too much tolerance is harmful. The day these terms are stricken from public discourse will be a happy one.

Pace is 100% correct.

EVERYONE HERE SEEMS TO BE IGNORANT TO THE FACT THAT OVER 75% OF NEW hiv/AIDS CASES ARE HETEROSEXUAL. GET A FACT YOU STUPID BIGOTS OR AT LEAST A WHITE HOOD.

I will not support Warner anymore. He has gone the way of all in Washington-- politically correct TO A FAULT. Where are all the real conservatives at???? The Constitution Party will be getting all my support from now on.

The words PERVERT and DEVIATE are still in my Webster's. People are in jails all over the country for acts defined as Perverted and Deviate. If the acts defined in those terms are now considered "normal", when will we consider Adultry and Murder "normal" ?

Only 4 Arab linguists have been discharged from the US military since 1991. Several who had just started school to learn to speak Arabic and Farsi were kicked out when they were caught having group sex in the dormitory. Chances are they would have not made it through the rigorous course work.

I just love being at war. You can really see people for what thay are, like undemocratic hate mongers.
Hey all you moralists put there, ever hear of "Thou shalt not kill", didn't think so , but anyway thats the first one , it means you have to follow that one first. when ya stop killing other people in other countries, then ya can start getting moral.

I just love being at war. You can really see people for what thay are, like undemocratic hate mongers.
Hey all you moralists put there, ever hear of "Thou shalt not kill", didn't think so , but anyway thats the first one , it means you have to follow that one first. when ya stop killing other people in other countries, then ya can start getting moral.

ed aaron:

Thanks for your service in WWII, but you are completely unqualified to speak on the current lifestyles of American soldiers, men or women. To say that male soldiers denigrate or treat harshly their female counterparts is ignorant and uninformed. You served in a time where no women were allowed other than the WASPS and a few nurses. Also, to say that Gen Pace somehow has to moralize the deaths of 100,000 iraqis is ridiculous. We try to minimize deaths of civilians EVERYDAY.. if we didnt, it would make the war much easier. Also, the divorce rates and crime of those in the military is Very low compared to a cross section of the same populus in society. The only reason the divorce rate is so high is that young soldiers feel they need to marry their girlfriends before they go to war, in order to give them benefits or continue their legacies/lives when they pass/or return. So, please get your facts straight about our military. While i thank you for your service, do not believe that gives you the right to create a fantasy world in which you can point out faults of the current military.
Also, I disagree with Gen Pace whole-heartedly on why there shouldnt be gays allowed in the military (openly), but I don't think we are ready for it yet.

Gen Pace is my hero. I'm a retired GySgt and I served 83 to 04. Homosexuality was dealt with better before "Don't ask". Gays didn't get in because they were asked at enlistment. If they lied, they had to keep it to themselves. If someone discovered their preference, they were thrown out. Man it was cool back then. At least Gen Pace has the guts to say what almost every General in the military believes. All the disparaging comments towards this fine officer are to be expected. This country is rapidly feminizing and soon enough our military will be the Girl Scouts. Unfortunately, given the politically correct social environment our military is forced to operate in, we'll have openly gay troops soon. Who do we have to thank for this, women and gays, plain and simple? Consider every left wing agenda item, including this one, and ask yourself who is leading the train. It's not hetero men. Sorry, putting things in your butt is abnormal, and just because heterosexuals recognize this doesn't make them closeted or wrong.

Pace is entitled to his own opinions, but that's all they are. And because he is a high official in the U.S. military he should remember to think before he speaks; he didn't get where he is without some diplomatic skills. Just about every behavior and lifestyle is considered immoral by somebody: people who drive SUVs, masturbators, divorced people, single mothers, adulterers (i.e., anybody who has sex outside marriage), meat eaters (or just beef-eaters or pork-eaters), wine-drinkers, coffee-drinkers, Christians, non-Christians, and all those unbelievers and heretics, however defined. E Pluribus Unum means that we can embrace our differences and still be a nation.
If gays aren't allowed to serve in the military, does that mean they don't have the same legal and moral responsibilities and duties to their country as everyone else? Should they have to pay taxes, too? And didn't the military encourage or at least tolerate adultery in wartime by handing out condoms and showing movies on avoiding VD? Does Pace think the Greatest Generation was immoral, too?

I am amazed that so many people deny in one way or another that what God says about certain behavior is no longer in force. Many of these people call themselves Christian simply because the believe in God but the Word says that even demons believe in God. One fellow who calls himself Christian says that God made him that way and I believe that is true but I also believe that God does not save us in our sin but from our sins. There is not one person in this world who has done one thing contrary to the will of God. The Law was written so that sinful man might know what he is to do in order to please God. There is no hint that God has enabled all mankind with the ability and power to obey His law. National sins require national repentence or that nation will be judged on a national level. General Pace is right and Warner is wrong.

Pace spoke as if his view on homosexuality is the overwhelming majority opinion. The latest Gallup Poll shows that over half of Americans now say homosexuality should be an acceptable way of life, 55%. A strong majority of young adults find homosexuality morally acceptable today according to the polls. Since most well-educated people today, especially younger people, think homosexuality is a morally acceptable way of life, his personal view about the morality of homosexuality is irrelevant to a debate about public policy. The US Supreme Court has already stated that disapproval of homosexual conduct is not a constitutional or rational justification for treating gays differently under the law. The Supreme Court has already said that Pace's morality-based views on homosexuality should not affect public policy. In fact, today the Department of Defense distanced itself from Pace by stating that morality is not the basis for the Don't Ask policy. Pace looks like an unenlightened troglodyte spouting off backward views about homosexuality. He just made himself look like a total hick.

For all you folks out there using the slippery slope theory - stating things like "If we allow homosexuals, we will have to allow child molesters and so on."

I don't know how many of you have a formal, college education, but you learn in your Freshman Speech and Philosophy classes that the slippery slope is not a valid form of argument (it is called a fallacy for a reason). You are making an illogical jump, and thus the argument is not valid. If we could predict the future, as you all are claiming to do, the world would be a perfect place.

Your other arguments, regarding not wanting to see soldiers take showers with other homosexual soldiers, is at least a valid argument, although you have not really presented any evidence other than your personal opinions and anecdotes (which I don't think I need to remind you, are not valid forms of evidence).

Most of all, remember that homosexuals are people too, and that their views should be respected as much as yours. You may claim to know god's word, but the fact of the matter is you have no way of backing up that claim. There is a point where we have to draw the line and say that this is not okay, but we have to have a reason for that (like the fact that child molesters hurt children). If you can provide me with evidence that homosexual's individual lifestyle and choices actually hurt other people, you may have a valid case.

General Pace is right on target. Homosexualality is a sin! It's immoral. The Bible is very clear that those who practice such behavior will suffer eternal damnation in hell. The best example I can give for this is at Sodom and Gomorrah.
It is against nature. It is an abomination.

This type of behavior has no place in the military or any society in the world.

As a retired vet - I find it offensive to question such a distinguished military leader on his opinion and then rake him over the coals about it. Sometimes I think the American public expects their public servants to check their morals and character at the door before they take office. That's just not realistic.

Bob, speaking of spelling...how do you spell "blatant", again?

re: "Other countries laugh at our crippling legacy of bigotry and ignorance and Pace just gave them another sound bite."

What other countries...France? Who care about France's love for perversion? I asked my Chinese acupuncturist, and she said it is NOT accepted in China. I asked our Mexican maid the same question, and she said it is NOT accepted in Mexico.

"Other countries" laugh at us? If so, who cares? We're America...the world leaders...the trend-setters. We're a MORAL nation. Homosexuality is immoral...so let other "other countries" laugh all the way to hell.

While "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" still applies, it is still a court martial offense to engage in homsexual behavior. Combat officers like Pace know full well what gays can do to the morale of combat forces. It's funny how many non military people think of the armed forces as just another federal department. Homosexual behavior can be destructive to unit cohesion, and if it is rampant, it can be disasterous on the combat field. Another behavioral problem, adultery, is also prosecuted in the UCMJ. I don't hear many people complain about discrimination to adulterers.

This nation is tolerant of many forms of pathological behavior; however, there is no right for homosexuals to openly practice thier behavior while in the military. For the vast majority of those who wear the uniform, homosexual acts are immoral and offensive. General Pace has every right to give his personal opinion in this matter when asked. His is a decorated combat vet who knows more about war than 99% of his fellow Americans. The only thing he should be judged on is his ability to win wars.

Gays in the military, its a resolvable problem. How about a gay battalion officered by lesbians. The battalion, company and platoon commanders would all be lesbians. Senior NCOs, too. They would train together, sleep together and fight together. Since the officers are lesbians who care nothing about the gay troops or for them, their first day in combat would reduce the battalion to zero. Problem solved. Now if we can just cobble together a burial detail.

I applaud the General for his convictions. God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. Back when this country had some moral fiber and decency this Liberal issue would have been a non-issue. Brave men in comabt situations should not be subject to the unnaturalness of men who want to be sexually like girls, find a job that suits this lifestyle, not in the military.

The General shows leadership in a immoral, rapidly decaying society. Leadership is to stand up for what is virtous and decent, against agendas that are an abomination (6% of the poulation = abomination). Nothing against gays behind closed doors, just not in the military where close quarters are a way of life. They don't let men bunk with women so they should not put them in a situation to bunk with men who are sexually attracted to men, awkward, bizarre, and dangerous.

Political correctness is destroying this country.

My friends in the military tell me that lots of people are essentially gay and open today in the military and are usually accepted by their peers. About 23 percent of troops say they are sure someone in their unit is gay, according to December Zogby poll. Of those troops, the poll found, 55 percent said they found out directly from the individual. Obviously, homosexuality has become so accepted already by this generation of peoople in the military, that gays feel comfortable to come out to others in the service. I know of gay servicemen who say that they are already virtually open about their sexual orientation and have no problems. People are already being open about it without any detrimental affect.

"There is a reason why the American Military is the best in the world, and it is because they do not partake in social experiments like gays openly serving in the military."

On July 26, 1948 President Harry S. Truman issued Executive Order 9981 which desgregated the United States Military. This was 6 years before Brown vs. Board of Education desegregated U.S. Schools.

This was a HUGE social experiment at the time, and it almost cost Truman the election when Strom Thurmond and the Dixiecrats bolted the Democratic Party as a result.

"Thou shalt not Kill"

I will compare the US military to the UK and Israel military because both of these military are kick-butt. Israel is arguably the world's second most ferocious military in the world. Gays have served openly and without problems in Israel for a long while now. The UK has a pretty potent military too. There have been no problems since the UK welcomed openly gay people to its ranks. IN fact, military officials in the UK and many other nations actively seek out gay men to recruit to the service. Same with Australia. In fact, the United States is the only Western nation that bans openly gay people from serving. That says it all. Even many developing or Third World countries now allow openly gay servicemembers. We are holding on to a policy that is destined to fall fairly soon.

The military is no place for a social experiment. The military is trained to do one thing and do it well - anything that gets in the way of that is trading their safety for some crazed sense of political correctness, and dooms our country in the process.

"Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood,"

“I have worked too long and hard against segregated public accommodations to end up segregating my moral concern. Justice is indivisible.” Like Martin, I don’t believe you can stand for freedom for one group of people and deny it to others."

- Coretta Scott King

and Jeff.... can you find me one verse that clearly states it is a sin.. that isn't wrapped in vaguery, that isn't followed with request for women to sacrifice doves when they have their period, when they are not also talking about these people as murderers... you can't.. because the sin was never homosexuality... you know it.. just because you choose to adopt the viewpoint of a person living in 1930's Alabama don't try to hammer me with your personal judgment as a way of denying me a universal right... BIGOTs ARE AS BIGOTs DO...

Jeff,
"England, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and Israel are just some of the 24 nations that allow openly gay members in the military. Even South Africa allows openly gay service members.

Even though many opponents predicted problems in these countries before their bans were lifted, time proved them wrong. Researchers say not a single country with openly gay service members has reported any decrease in morale, recruitment, retention or cohesion."
http://www.logcabin.org/lcrchicago/gays_military.html

john warner has gone soft, he has lost my vote. semper-fi general

Having "avowed and practicing" homosexuals openly quartered with the troops in barracks, showers and sleeping areas makes as much sense as having straight men quartered directly with women.
Would women military stand for showering and sleeping with men? What straight man would want to shower or sleep in a foxhole with an avowed and practicing homosexual. Gays in the military who don't penly act upon their inclinations and otherwise "don't tell" are fine as long as the do their duty.

The military is for the defense of the nation; it is not for a vehicle for Gay's aggressively pushing their life style and agendas.

I agree with General Pace completely. I am so proud that a man of his standing would make this statement. He is absolutely right and history has proven it time and again. The last step a nation takes before it's fall is immorality and the United States of america is awfully close to this with all of it's promiscuity and no shame for it. I am glad that he has spoken his belief. There are many in agreement with him, I am sure.

Diversity is the death of a nation and too much tolerance is harmful. The day these terms are stricken from public discourse will be a happy one.

Posted by: Jim West | Mar 13, 2007 4:04:57 PM

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that ALL men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness..."

You are so right TonyC! Everything in the Bible is not antiquated! I'm so glad you and I have never eaten shrimp or wear glasses like the Bible says. You and I will be safe on Judgement Day!

General Pace has every right to express his opinion and those that call him narrow-minded are completely ignorant of the obvious. HOMOSEXUALITY GOES AGAINST NATURE. Can anyone honestly look at the act of sodomy and say that's how its supposed to work? What a nasty and unsanitary activity. Men and women are made for each other and anything other than that is going against our bodies designed use. We need more people like General Pace to speak out against things that are immoral and not allow those who want to ignore the truth to silence our right to speak.

When you send your eighteen year old son off to boot camp, tell him to watch out for smarmy soft-boiled sergeants bearing gifts, and promising him a good time.

I mean can't we all get along.

I do think the services need to provide individual shower facilities and well maybe I've lived too long.

I am so tired of hearing who is "PRO GAY" or who is "ANTI GAY"...whoever is anti gay is automatically called a bigot which is not a fact...whoever is pro gay is called a fagot by other idiots which is not right.

I couldn't care less what a person does when they are not around me...if they are around me, I do not want them groping one another regardless if it is a man and a woman, a woman and a woman or a man and a man.

So, have some decency and keep what you do in your bedroom in your bedroom...nobody else needs to know anything.

Here is a idea. let the ragheads take over,then ask them how they feel about the don't ask don't tell policy.

The General has every right to express his "opinion" as does anyone else. It matters not that he is in the military and works for the government, he did not check his rights at the door. In my "opinion" he has earned the right to voice his opinion more than most people who have spouted off. Having served in Vietnam myself, I think I too have earned the right.

Homosexuality is a choice, nothing more, You cna make it and claim it as being born that way, but there is no, I mean no scienctific data that supports that people are born this way. They may be predesposed to gravitate towards that lifestyle, just as one may gravitate to drinking or drugs. having said this, I am not a hater of homosexuals and because my convictions, believes and understanding does not make me "homophobic."

Keeping away from the bible for a moment, the body is not designed for homosexual behavior, the "plumbing"just isn't made for this. In short, the notion of man on man sex is not natural. Going to the bible, I would say that God created us for precreation and two men or two women are incapable of doing that.

One more thing, to the guy who called the general a Jackass and "moron" you don't become a four star general and chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff
because you are a moron;..... you gotta have some brains. I love how vitrolic liberals and especially homosexuals get when you defend your position.

Mark
Wichita Kansas

Thank goodness for General Peter Pace. Who would have thought it true - a 4 star general with a real opinion who isn't afraid to state it. In the final analysis, however, it doesn't matter what General Pace or Senator Warner say. God said sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman is immoral and it will be until God says it's not. One day all the name callers who can't tolerate the expression of an opinion different than theirs will be awakened to a perfect recollection of their guilt and know they were wrong. Where will they be then??????

God said it and that makes it true
read your bible people

As a fellow Virginian, John Warner is the one completely off base.

to f.kach:

subjective morality? Great, so a rapist thinks it's moral then it's OK. No standards at all. Whatever is pleasing to you then it is just grand. What a sick view of the world.

God said it and that makes it true
read your bible people

Posted by: Pat | Mar 13, 2007 4:47:41 PM

That was the stupidest thing I have heard all day

Remember a substantial minority of our armed services is gay. I would estimate 15%. Now what would happen if we removed every gay in the military? I served with gay men. I never had a problem. Indeed many have died on the battlefield to give so many bigoted morons the right to proclaim their prejudices. I trust these would be the same folks who in the first half of the 20th century would be appalled at the concept of racially equality.

You can definitely see people for what they are when they are willing to be killed by immoral enemies without fight. Commonly known as liberals, these willing victims will not pay the price of freedom. Those who have moral values will.

I know people serving in the military & they tell me they don't want to have to take showers with openly gay people or sleep within inches from them.

EVERYONE FORWARD ME THEIR HAT SIZES, I'LL GET YOU ALL WHITE HOODS TO COMPLETE YOUR KKK STANCE.

Good for the General. We sure don't need qualified patriots in our military if they're gay. While many of them may be highly qualified and might even save thousands of lives and might even thwart a massive attack on our country we simply can not allow gays to be involved in the protection of our nation. The moral issues involved are far more important than the lives of our citizens. The next demand we can expect of these immoral gays is a demand for life, liberty and the pursuit of happeness. They have their nerve.

Every single consensual act of sex is a choice.

To say homosexuals cannot choose what they do sexually is to say they are no better than creatures of instinct.

One day God will have us all give an account of everything we've done, good or bad - there will be no discussion of "what we were."

General Pace, you're a good man, and good men are in declining numbers.

I support the General's views 100%. It doesn't matter what you or I say, the fact is that its not the General thats the issue. Its GOD's law that matters, you may or may not agree with it, but at the end of the day all that matters is what he says...Its called TRUTH

Good for General Pace!

General Pace has every right to say what he believes. He has fought for everyones right to say what they want. He certainly has a traditional opinion and if that bugs you, tough. He fights for people's right to burn a flag he would die for and he understands this concept. Why is it beyond the people who hate him for his traditional view? Who is intolerant now? Grow up.

dave, it's called personal faith and has nothing to do with truth...

I don't care if homosexuality is immoral or not. I just think it's gross.I didn't need a 'religion' to tell me that.

Perhaps the same people who spout hatred and quote scripture, should read a little further, or perhaps take the entire Bible literally, and not just portions of it. Seems to me that most pick and choose what to passages to quote based on what serves their purpose. Christ intervened when society attempted to judge in John 8:7-12 challenging that whoever was without sin should throw the first stone. We are a society of nothing but hypocrites.

What an interesting debate that has sprung up here. I would just like to say that I have two sons. I raised them the same, fed them the same, treated them the same, and one turned out gay, the other straight. It is my firm opinion that homosexuality is not a chosen "lifestyle" but an actual genetic/biological/hormonal occurrence that occurs in nature and has since the beginning of time. I cannot imagine why my son would choose to be part of a group of people who are universally regarded (by bigots) to be at the bottom of every other minority. But I know that people, afraid of being judged, try to fit in. I think it is those people who give the impression that homosexuality is a "chosen lifestyle." It most definitely is not. And, in my opinion, it is most definitely immoral to discriminate against them. I am sad for those whose judgments cloud this board. Somebody open a window in here.

Ok, here goes..

First off, let's start with the "gay" issue. Gays (I believe) are an abomination of the natural order of things and do n ot belong in our military. Do male lions mount other male lions? No. Do male dogs seek out other male dogs? No. Do male birds seek out other male birds to make a cozy little love nest? No. Do male Hippo's seek other male Hippo's for a romp in the water? No. Do any of you gay posters above believe the dinosaurs would have made it as long as they did...hundreds of millions of years...had they not procreated with the opposite sex? Of course not! So let's all be honest here. IT IS NOT NATURAL!! However, I don't look down upon you for your abnormalities. I think as scientists progress in the field of neuroscience, we may very well find that what is going on in the "gay" brain is perhaps detectable & reversible with in-the-womb medications and we can rid this abomination from the human genome pool. Don't worry...you are fixable...or at least future gays will be. This science is coming folks. Don't laugh. Wasn't too long ago people laughed at the idea of creating a whole other human from a couple of cells yet here we are...on the brink of growing new hearts and lungs and replacing limbs etc. etc.

Secondly, the more the....uhhh... "normals" see our lives being bombarded with images of the "gays" parading down the streets of our cities in purple panties and singing Cher tunes...and the more we have our children subjected to "gay" material in the schools at 7 and 8 years of age...the more outraged we will become and the faster we can get through all of this nonsense and get down to investing some serious research money to change this unnatural behavior in future afflicted humans.

So, to sum this up...science will be the death of the gay lifestyle. I can't wait.

As a Navy vet, I can assure you that open homosexuality would have been despised onboard vessels a few short years ago. Like it or not, that will never change. Eventually some boobs in Congress may force "acceptance," but it will never be accepted.

Hooyah, General!

General Pace has every right to express his opinion on any subject he is questioned about.

The hypocrisy of those who would applaud him if he expresses support for their point of view or villify him if he disagrees with them is astounding.

We need more people standing up and telling us how they truly feel about issues.

The alternative is a country full of clone/politicians willing to say anything that serves their purpose at the moment whether they belive it or not.

As to the morality of homosexuality. I am sure that General Pace has no desire nor intention of trying to force others to belive as he does. He will I am sure, allow others to form their own opinions. That is after all what freedom is all about.

I'm amazed that so many people take a book of iron age mythology from sheep herding desert nomads as a literal truth worthy of application to the present day. Personally, I spoke to Zeus last night, and he pointed out Alexander the Great was quite comfortable with his love for a young persian eunich.

Do male dogs seek out other male dogs? No. Do male birds seek out other male birds to make a cozy little love nest? No. Do male Hippo's seek other male Hippo's for a romp in the water? No. Do any of you gay posters above believe the dinosaurs would have made it as long as they did...hundreds of millions of years...had they not procreated with the opposite sex?

Yes in fact they do... homosexuality is as natural as rain as moral as heterosexuality and just because you have given up thinking... doesn't give you the right to discriminate... George Wallace was sure he was right too.. turned out he was just a bigot,,,

If I believed in your ignorant fundamentalist views, I would go to your extremist church. I am a well-educated, progressive Christian who does not use the Bible to justify bigotry and ignorance. After all, the Bible says to stone children; condones slavery; states that women should remain silent in church; states that men are the head of the woman; and says that sin entered the world through a woman. The Bible was written by men, not by God. While there is some truth in it, is not a direct dictation of God's perfect words. It contains the errors of personal prejudice, time, and limited knowledge. I used to go to one of those fundamentalist churches, but the ignorance and prejudice found in such places led me to a progressive church. I now attend a church and denomination that blesses gay marriages and accepts gay people, as well as blacks, Hispanics, and female pastors. Anti-gay views are eroding as education increases. When you express anti-gay views, you are outing yourself as a very uneducated and small-minded person.

Homosexual behavior was the main cause of the spread of AIDs..Our sexual organs were not designed for various forms of anal and oral sex, they are designed to propagate our species.

Pleasurable sexual sensations can be achieved by all sorts of onanistic,and even wierd paractices such as bestiality, necrophelia,you name it? They can also be achieved by adult child couplings? Is that now lawful?
Guess what homosexuality is abnormal and has no place on the battlefield where discipline and need, replace pleasurable forms of achieving organisms!

Note that comments by Fred Thomas are the most idiotic and aren't spelled correctly. It all adds up, right?

Who cares what the General's personal views are? He is a soldier, not a moral cop. His job isn't to have a personal opinion. It's to lead his forces effectively to accomplish the military mission. It's high time he shut his mouth, salute, and keep his opinions to himself.

If we believe the maxim, and it is on our currency, "In God We Trust", then the implication is a nation is only as strong as God blesses and prospers them - as they put their trust in Him. The great question is does God live, and does God prosper nations, and are we dependent on Him for every blessing? If that is true, and i surely believe it is, then we are under responsibility to obey and honor His counsel or suffer the consequences. The idea then of "why does it matter what a soldier's sexual orientation, if he is a great soldier?" completely misses the point, and is very dangerous. Our nation can field great soliders because we put our trust in Him and He prospers us. If ignore His counsels and expect Him to prosper us, we are on very dangerous grounds. General Pace understands this, and I applaud his position. It has nothing to do with phobia, or being hate-filled, it has to do with accountability and being blessed and prospered by the One opinion that matters - His. In the end if He is not with us, it doesn't really matter what we do, how strong we think our troops are, or how rich we are. The quickest way to lose His help is to ignore his commmandments.

You Americans are so funny! You are so happy when England, Germany, Spain, the Netherlands, etc., send troops to fight with you and never mention or seem to care that since these countries, including Israel, allow gays to serve openly, you are essentially fighting alongside openly gay, international soldiers. But yet you still harbor your petty bigotries and fears within your own country. It's laughable that the supposedly most free country in the world, shares the same phobia of homosexuals as do countries like Iran, Russia, China, and Egypt.

I think any gay or lesbian Americans that would want to lay down their lives in service for a nation of bigots that won't even let them serve is comical anyway. What a collectively sad, sad people...you despise honest, hard working homosexuals, but worship people like bush and Cheney! Such lowlifes you are!

Yes, yes. Nothing like being lectured about morality by a murderer. Oh, that's right. It's "collateral damage". Perhaps you Einsteins should have a look at what JC had to say about divorce and then get back to us.

That we are even debating the General's remarks is chilling. For thousands of years those afflicted by same-sex attraction knew themselves that is was intrinsically disordered. Now we've come to the point where such behavior is deemed normal and those who speak out against it are considered deviant and abnormal? Such a inversioin of truth is prerequisite for cultural enslavement. If white is black and black is white, then we are well into 1984 and the brave new world that must ensue.

According to General Pace and his ilk, it would now appear that some behaviors are more "immoral" than others in the military.

Killing, public drunkenness and adultery are perfectly acceptable behaviors and in some cases, even systemically encouaged (as in lavish Officers and NCO clubs and so-called "Class 6" on-post liquor stores that do nothing but encourage public drunkenness and alcoholism) not to mention Post Exchanges that, even in this "enlightened" age, still stock "cheap" smokes.

What's more, under his command, even the abject raping and pillaging a nation with the gross national product of Fairfax County, Virginia seems to be quite "moral" behavior...in fact, it's considered HONORABLE in his eyes and those of his peers!

But God help anyone in the ranks who has the courage to stand up and admit they are somehow sexually different! Nope...THAT'S immoral behavior.

What an bunch of hypocrites!

It tells you something about the education level of anti-gay Neanderthals that they still think homosexuality is not widepread or even exists amongst animal? Have they not read all the news stories about scientists observing homosexuality in animals all these years? Do they not have access to a modern biology or science textbook that tell us homosexuality and bisexuality are common throughout nature, from lower animals to complex life. They should study before entering a debate so they don't sound so dumb. If they studied and paid attention to science journals and reports, they would know:

A first-ever museum display, "Against Nature?," which opened last month at the University of Oslo's Natural History Museum in Norway, presents 51 species of animals exhibiting homosexuality. "Homosexuality has been observed in more than 1,500 species, and the phenomenon has been well described for 500 of them," said Petter Bockman, project coordinator of the exhibition.

The presence of same-sex sexual behavior appears to be widespread amongst birds, mammals and the apes. Some researchers believe it to have its origin in male social organization and social dominance, similar to the dominance traits shown in prison sexuality. However others cast doubt on this male social organization theory citing gay Penguins that mate for life and refuse to pair with females when given the chance.
One report on sheep states:
"Approximately 8% of rams exhibit sexual preferences [that is, even when given a choice] for male partners (male-oriented rams) in contrast to most rams, which prefer female partners (female-oriented rams). We identified a cell group within the medial preoptic area/anterior hypothalamus of age-matched adult sheep that was significantly larger in adult rams than in ewes..."

The bonobo, which has a matriarchal society (unusual amongst apes), is a fully bisexual species -- both males and females engage in heterosexual and homosexual behavior, being noted for lesbianism in particular.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that ALL men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness..."

Posted by: Tony | Mar 13, 2007 4:38:31 PM"

This is an oft misused phrase. I get very tired of this. First of all it is in the Declaration of Independence not the Constitution which is the true law of the land. The Declaration holds NO legal power.

Jefferson was not referring to the right of a guy to "marry" another guy or the right to sodomy. He was referring to the rights of Englishmen under the law. And by the way, sodomy was illegal at that time and, frankly, proably still should be.

It is typical for Marxists, and that is where this whole "equality" push comes from, to take history out of context. Read the Constitution and the Federalist papers to get a sense of where the founders meant by this phrase in the Declaration of Independence. It is totally differenbt from the distorted view pushed by leftist thinkers of today and therefore is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

"When all is said and done, we must contrast two opposing facts. "

Wrong...the Bible is NOT fact, but rather a collection of writings, written by man, compiled by man and MISINTERPRETED by man. There are other religious books out there with just as much merit for what they are as the Bible. Our country is a democracy, NOT a theocracy and not everyone believes in your Bible, nor should they have to anymore than you believe in the Koran! I fear homosexuals a lot less than religious fanatics! It wasn't homosexuals who flew planes into the World Trade Center...it was religious fanatics who thought their religion was the only 'truth' as well!

To all of those posting in support of Pace:

You will lose the culture war. It is inevitable. I only wish I would get to see the face of each and every one of you when gay marriage is finally legalized in this great country. The forces of justice, righteousness, equality, and liberty are going to triumph over your venom and false truths. Men like Pace will be reduced to dust. It will be sweet - and you will have a lot to answer for in the next life.

These comments by General Pace are just one more diversion cooked-up the allies of the Bush Administration to distract the American public. After Colin Powell was relieved of his duties American foreign policy went down the tubes. We are in a war in Iraq that has gone nowhere after the initial victories due to gross mismanagement. They have finally put a general in there who has some common sense. There has also been a verdict against Lewis Libby. The Admistration desperately needs these diversions so that the public is distracted from their serious blunders and illegal activities.

It kills me when people start using the animal analogy to justify their hate. you should exercise caution when doing this, after all:
1. humans and dolphins are the only species who have sex for pleasure
2. male spiders tie up the females before forcing themselves on them.
3. after sex, the female spider devours the male spider unless he gets away in time.
4. snakes practice group sex
5. one bull per 20 sows in the cattle field (talk about polygamy)

Homosexuality is not a race. It's not a gender. It's a behavior. To suggest that a military commander has no right to dictate what sort of behavior is acceptable in the military those serving under him is the height of ignorance - and exactly why liberals can't be trusted with our national defense.

I would rather have Gen. Pace speak plainly on the subject and express his opinion as he sees it, then to have Barney Frank express his opinion.The thought of having an individual in General Pace's position not having a sense of morality should scare most Americans to their knees in giving thanks to the man for his service and courage in expressing what needs to be said. This nation is free because of courage not political correctness or even tolerance. It is free because of values and candor. It will remain free, if we do not compromise our beliefs. If you believe that each and every one has a right to express themselves as an American, as I do, then I will endorse Pace and reject all the one's that align themself with the Frank's and Warner's and any other liberal leaning individual. The moment we lose the opinions of the men -in-charge of our military, due to political correctness, then we might as well turn the keys over to our enemies for the battle has already been lost.

The General has a right to His opinion.
If you don't agree with the gay community you are an idiot and homophobe and if you do agree you're okay. Is that biased and discrimenating?

Sincerely, Ken

John, gay marriage is already legal in Massachusetts and Canada, civil unions in several other states. THe anti-gay cavemen know their view is dying out as younger people are not afflicted with their homophobic bigotry. They are lashing out because they see society changing quickly on this issue. Many churches are any blesses gay marriages and have gay pastors now. Progress is happening, times are changing.

Jim West says I'm a Marxist because I quote the Declaration of Independance in the defense of Liberty. What a laugh.

Guess what Jimbo, Jefferson also didn't think that phrase applied to blacks or women. Our history as a Republic has been a continual process of discovering the meaning of that phrase. Or perhaps, your ok with denying them rights as well?

You want the Constituation? Fine.

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. "

We all have the right to bear arms in a well regulated militia. That doesn't just mean that you have a right to an AK-47, it means EVERYONE has the right to serve in the armed forces.

"Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Gay persons are citizens of the United States of America. They cannot be denied equal protection of the law.

The general expressed his personal opinion. Get over it. You all have a freedom of speech as well. You all claim to be on the high ground when your hypocrisy runs as deep as anyone else's.

The left will not stop until American is destroyed.
The left does not care about what is wrong or right--only what fits each of their personal agendas. It's not about freedom. It's not about truth. It's not about justice. They cannot be governed.

See you in the second Civil War, Urban America.

I think if there are indeed 65,000 homosexuals serving in secret in the military right now, they should march up to their commanders, declare their homosexuality, be discharged immediately and let Bush find new soldiers for his "surge" by implementing a draft and taking the sons and daughters of the idiots posting here who seem are all to happy to let gays fight for their liberties and while keeping their own hidden!

Wake up gays! Don't fight for people who hate you...let them and their children fight and die!!! Oh, I forgot...since they're here posting BS, I guess they never had time to enlist. And for those of you that say you're ex-military and have a problem with gays, shame on you! I was in the Army for eight years and served with gay soldiers and they NEVER tried any of the crap you accuse them of trying. When I served, there was honor in the military...I guess they kept the anti-gay stuff, but flushed the honor part.

If Senator Warner feels that homosexuality is all right I suggest that he move to the Castro District in San Francisco, Fire Island or P Town on that coast and walk the walk since he is talking the talk.

Go General Pace !!!!

Do male dogs seek out other male dogs? No. Do male birds seek out other male birds to make a cozy little love nest? No. Do male Hippo's seek other male Hippo's for a romp in the water? No. Do any of you gay posters above believe the dinosaurs would have made it as long as they did...hundreds of millions of years...had they not procreated with the opposite sex?

and WWW says:

"Yes in fact they do... homosexuality is as natural as rain as moral as heterosexuality and just because you have given up thinking... doesn't give you the right to discriminate... George Wallace was sure he was right too.. turned out he was just a bigot,,,"

Ohhh...the name calling....Well I guess National Geographic or Mutual of Omaha or the Discovery channel folks must be bigots too...cause I've never...NEVER see any animal acts of homosexuality displayed on any of these forums. They must be sanitizing it for us huh WWW?

General Pace is entitled to his opinion, homosexuals theirs and God his. No one can prove anything contrary to the principles the creator of the Heavens and Earth gave us to govern our self is less than right and true. Of course this comment is made with the assumption that one understands their place in the big scheme of things…

Personally I thank the General for his service to our country. It takes great strength to resist the tempatations of this world and step out to be heard publically. Thank you sir for your courage!

Joe Smith:

You, my friend, have lost your senses. In fact, if I were able to post my true sentiments about your posts on this thread - you would probably have an aneurysm. Your little speech about being born-again, blah-blah-blah...THAT was priceless!

Sit in the comfort of your little love nest - and continue to tell yourself that you're right on this issue. The rest of us will continue to do the tough work (with much more than "3 years of active duty") -- and don't lecture us with all you're previous military experience. Thanks for getting out of the military BEFORE you came out of hiding. I'd tell you to go hug a root -- but you're probably doing it already.

Gen Pace was dead accurate -- funny how all of you nuts come out of the wood work demanding an apology when he expresses his opinion and then turn around and applaud these knuckle-heads with their "appeal to redress"...(hey, joe - look it up).

You will lose the culture war. It is inevitable.

Posted by: John | Mar 13, 2007 5:27:27 PM

Sadly, I think you are right. A civilizations decline is inevitable. Vulgarity, the acceptance of sodomy, the mainstreaming if pornography are all signs of social decadence and decline.

However, as a man of the West, I am not going to go down without a fight. I owe it to my children and my forefathers to resist this degeneracy for as long as I can.

Gen. Pace for President. He's the man. Enough is enough with all this panty-waist quibbling about white lies, little lies, commiting adultery, fornication and sodomy. Pace is right on!

Sinclair Lewis was absolutely correct when he said that, "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."

Based on some of the bigoted comments posted here from the "holier than thou" crowd, it would appear that day isn't too far off.

The Secretary of Defense says Pace was out of line in putting out his personal opinions. My friend who works at the Pentagon says a lot of people are angry at Pace and he caught hell for his comments. The Pentagon has lots of openly bisexual and gay employees, and people are outraged Pace would say such an insulting thing. The interesting thing is that civilian Department of Defense employees are allowed to be openly gay and there are lots of them at the Pentagon, as well as all government agency. Pace has just insulted his own employees. DC is a very gay-friendly place, and Pace is gonna find his comments has made him a very unpopular person here.

I thought we all have first amendment rights! Pace was asked a question and he answered it. Why do homosexuals, who yell and scream for tolerance, become so intolerant when someone speaks out against homosexuality. I think it's because they know homosexuality is immoral!

Have any of the folks on this message board who condemn gay sex ever actually tried it?

It is actually pretty fun when you get down to it. A lot of times, a woman can make another woman much happier than a man ever could. Same goes for the man. They know what they like, plain and simple.

I am an older gentleman who was opposed to the Gays all through the 60's, 70's and 80's. Finally gave it a whirl in the 90's and I've never been the same since!

Like Mama always used to say, You never Know until you Try!

Tony:
"Jim West says I'm a Marxist because I quote the Declaration of Independance in the defense of Liberty. What a laugh."

Jim:
No, you are Marxist because you are misinterpreting the document to further your ideological goals.

Your statement, about Jefferson reveals your intellectual dishonesty. You clearly understand that they didn't mean whay you say they meant and yet you still try to pass it off. Typical.

Tony:
Gay persons are citizens of the United States of America. They cannot be denied equal protection of the law.

Jim:
Which they have. Anyone with a penchant for sodomy, is not allowed to talk about it in the military. This is pretty liberal as far as I am concerned. I would bar them altogether.

To the amoral nothing is immoral. Morality that is subjecitve is personal preferance and not morality. Muslims, Christians and Orthodox Judaism has a system of absolute values that can not be culturally manipulated or interpreted.

If you have no fixed and absolute standards of right and wrong, good and evil you are without a moral compass. What do you believe Mr. Senator? Is child abuse wrong? Is it immoral? Why?

Charles
San Francisco, Ca

Here is a shocker! Did you guys know there are actual gays in the military right now? OMG! They even sleep in the same barracks and shower in the same showers. It appears that the only people thinking about man on man sex are the homophobes. Hmmmm.

Jim West, my kids, parents and I will be on the battlefield to crush you Neanderthals relentlessly, and memorialize you as Neanderthals of a bygone era. You troglodytes are in the wrong century.

Makes me proud to be Marine... OOORAH! Sir.

"Vulgarity, the acceptance of sodomy, the mainstreaming if pornography are all signs of social decadence and decline."

LOL! You make it sound as if gays created sodomy. Guess what, heterosexuals have been enjoying oral sex since before your Bibles, Korans and Torahs said it was a naughty thing and as for pornography, well, that was a straight ivention too, hate to tell ya. You may not like gays and accuse them of this, that or the other thing, but 10% of a population is not enough to engender its decline. As far as gay marriage destroying the 'sanctity' of the institution, it seems to me straight folk were trashing long before the gay version ever becoma an issue. By the way, I live in Boston and the lesbian couple next door have been married for 2 years--TOGETHER FOR 25!!!!--and guess what? My wife and I are still married, still happy, our children are doing well and the world hasn't come to an end. Too bad Gen Pace thinks to people of the same sex loving eachother is somehow more immoral than men and women who've fought for their country, been injured and then come home to an indifferent government and soiled, rat infested medical facilities at Walter Reed. For displaying that kind of indifference and incompetence, Pace should be run out on a rail!

The General has every right to express his moral viewpoint. Everyone has one. Those who want homosexuals to be open in the military are expressing their moral viewpoint. I happen to agree with the General's that the practice of homosexuality is immoral, the same as adultery and other sexual misgivings.

Those who don't want General Pace to "push his morality" on them, are doing exactly the same thing, they are pushing their morality on us.

Look, not only is the general allowed to have an opinion (*everyone* has opinions, including those of you who disagree with his opinion), but they are these opinions that form ALL kinds of policy. If we don't base our decisions on opinions of moral character (yes, everyone's idea of that is different), on what do we base our decisions???

Further, anyone who has served in the military can likely tell you that you work in intense, close-quartered situations. My father, who served for 15 years in both the marines and then the air force, not only believes that openly gay men should not serve in certain types of units, but neither should women -- for the purpose of safety and focus, comfort and morality (not tempting anyone who has left their significant others back home waiting anxiously). And, even as a woman, I agree.

I don't think that someone who has homosexual tendencies is an evil person, but I do believe that someone who is actively engaged in homosexual partnership(s) is sinning - and just as the general said, we don't tolerate someone having an affair with a married woman, which is the same kind of sin.

"Jim:
Which they have. Anyone with a penchant for sodomy, is not allowed to talk about it in the military. This is pretty liberal as far as I am concerned. I would bar them altogether."

HA!HA!HA! Did you know that oral sex is also considered sodomy??? If you think you can serve in the military and not hear guys openly talk about that, you're nuts! LOL!

Shame on Sen Warner! I suppose being married to and divorced to hollywood legend and pro homosexual Elizabeth Taylor may have contributed to his warped sense of morality. General Pace is correct, homosexuality is unnatural and immoral behavior and should not be tolerated in the military.

To a Marxist, respect for family, tradition, and normality is called fascism. The entire history of the West, save the last 40 yearsm was just dripping with fascism according to them.

At the same time, to them, pornography on every street corner is good.

Open acceptance of degenerate beahviors such as sodomy are to be honored.

How did these guys convince anyone of the worthiness of their ideology? Very strange.

We are at the point that even "conservative" George Bush is talking about same sex unions. How I weep for my nation. It's all very sad.

Sheesh! General Pace expressed HIS opinion. As a Regular Army officer, I never expressed my sexual preference (blondes w/ round behinds and big soft tatas) in the ordinary course of serving our country. It was not necessary. Just keep your mouth shut and keep on serving. There is a great big difference between tolerance and acceptance. I can tolerate anything but I do not have to accept everything.

If homosexuality is not immoral then WHAT is???
The world is moving farther and farther away from the creators plan...those who violate that plan will pay the price.....

Why don't you homosexuals get professional help to rid yourselves of something that even you know is not normal...

Help is only a prayer away....try it for your souls sake.....

Just incase it isn't clear to all you gays. YOU are living an immoral lifestyle. God WILL judge you if you die in your sins just as he will judge us all. Christians are not telling you this for your sake but for ours. We will have to explain to God why we didn't witness the truth to you before it was too late.

So, let me get this straight (no pun intended), General Pace is to dissolve his upbringing to appease the politically correct liberals that who lack free-standing thought? He considers homosexual activity between two individuals, as well as adulterous affairs, which are conveniently left out of most comments and exerpts, to be immoral. Should someone have pulled him aside and told him, "forget all the values that your parents taught you, they cannot be spoken in today's society."?

We must be at a point in our society that people are demonized for their personal beliefs and opinions. This type of radical thought does not represent me. You can consider an individual or activity to be immoral, but that does not necessarily imply hate or disdain. Is calling someone immoral hatespeak? Give me a break.

I support GEN Pace 100% and have a couple of quick points.

1) To the writer who stated 75% of new HIV cases are hetrosexual - go back and review the details of the study. It included bisexuals and their partners, prostitutes, and IV drug users to get the "hetrosexual" epidemic.

2) Another post stated the military accepted the astronaut love triangle. Wrong, she has been relieved of duty and her military career is finished.

3) Although I agree with the Biblical prohibition against homosexuality, I will argue against it on biological grounds. It is not natural; human beings were created male and female for the purpose of reproduction of the species. Homosexuality defeats that purpose. I may have grown up a dumb farm boy but I never saw our bulls pairing off in the pasture.

4) I have spent twenty plus years in the military and fear that our once great country is going the way of the Roman Empire. We tolerate any form of deviant behavior, our society grows more vulgar each year, have lost our moral and political compass, and we honor the irrelevant and ignore the noble. Pity!

Continue mission, General Pace!

Jim west-

Was Lincoln a Marxist?

"Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal."

"Which they have. Anyone with a penchant for sodomy, is not allowed to talk about it in the military. "

Ever hear of something called the First Amendment Jimbo? You know, the one that all the Christians here are applauding Pace for using his rights under?

Plus you ignore the Second Amendment.

"This is pretty liberal as far as I am concerned. I would bar them altogether."

Bar them from the military, or life in general?

Whay does freedom and liberty threaten you so much Jim? Why do you want an America of intolerance and suppression?

Jefferson was more right than he knew. ALL men are created equal. They are endowed with the unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I stand by those words. I fight for those words.

I just lost a huge amount of respect for John Warner. Why are so many politicians afraid to stand
up for right and wrong.

Kudos General Pace. A solid man with a backbone, we need more people like you.

The last time I looked, the United States Constitution did not establish a theocracy. Apparently, General Pace missed that class at the Naval Academy. Thomas Jefferson was very specific in his view of those like Pace who condition ones legal rights on compliance with one religious view: He called them impious, hypocrites, tyrants and other equally unflattering terms.

Living in the Norfolk, Virginia, area, be assured that there are MANY gays in the military – and not just the Navy - and they risk their lives, fight and in some cases die in the line of duty just as surely as the “Christian Taliban” types who support Pace and, in fact, might be better served to move to a country like Iran where theocracy holds sway.

Moreover, in my experience, all of the excuses about “unit cohesion” and the like, stem from those in the military who are deep down unsure of their own sexuality and, therefore, threatened by any one who is different. Just because some in the military thus feel threatened - or are just plain religious bigots - does not justify denying other citizens the right to serve in this country’s military.

Who does Pace think he is? It is time to eliminate any and every law that attempts to create a civilized and orderly society. Who are you to judge whether a prostitute has a right to sell her own body? Who are you to judge if it is wrong for me to steal your possessions? Who are you to judge whether it is wrong for me to kill you? Who are you to judge if it is wrong for your wife to sleep with me or my donkey? Our laws were created partly on the Ten Commandments.

When you ran God out of the country, you removed any justification for any law that is created to maintain a just and prosperous society. It time time to reap the rewards (or consequences) of a society that has nothing to fear. Anything goes. e are all free to craft our own laws that we wish to follow and it up to each individual to craft their own moral or immoral code. Welome to anarcchy!

Attention Homophobes:

You'll be happy to learn that Rick "man on dog" Santorum has now joined Faux News, really, where he can share his enlightened views on Homosexuality (and beastiality, no less) with the rest of his hovering, religious right, admirers.

Now if you could just get the recently "cured" Reverend Haggard over there to lead you in a few hallelujahs.

I just love all the Bible thumping Republicans who love to invoke the word of God into a political argument. Don't you all realize as soon as you do, your credibility runs dry. The United States of America military fights to defend the Constitution of this great country, the very document that states there shall be a separation of church and state. This country does not establish law or policy based on the fictitional omnipotent being over the factual, real document that our country is founded upon. Nor does it make policy on an idea of "immorality" that is once again based on your personal beliefs. **NEWS FLASH: Not everyone believes like you do!!** The tough part for you people to understand is that's OK and someone else believing something else does not make them lesser people and, much to your dismay I know, make you better. This country was founded on the basis of religious tolerance, a freedom of religion and the separation of church and state. Argue around these points and you might get your credibility back.

What, did the swamp get invaded by the Free Republic? Geez.

I think that if you are recognized as a citizen of this country, you sure as hell can go fight and die for your country, regardless of sexual orientation.

Senator Warner will never convince me homosexuality is moral?, but I would love to listen to the silly arguments trying to defend it

all of those posting in support of Pace:

You will lose the culture war. It is inevitable. I only wish I would get to see the face of each and every one of you when gay marriage is finally legalized in this great country. The forces of justice, righteousness, equality, and liberty are going to triumph over your venom and false truths. Men like Pace will be reduced to dust. It will be sweet - and you will have a lot to answer for in the next life.

Posted by: John | Mar 13, 2007 5:27:27 PM

john
there is no next life, face it, this is it, when you die you stop being, simple as that.

For you people that think that Gen. Pace is out of line or think homosexuality is ok LISTEN UP! Your argument is with God. Take it up with him if your man or woman enough.

I think there is no place for discussing sexual orientation, (heterosexual, homosexual, bi, or whatever) in the military. It serves no purpose except to escalate tensions in a profession that is already fraught with stress. I think its unprofessional and should not be tolerated. His reasoning for maintaining his stance may be weak. I also question his source for what is moral and immoral. I, however, in the absence of his reasoning think he is making the right decision.

An observation:

For centuries until the last 10 years or so, civilized societies with a few notable exceptions, of course, have overwhelming agreed with General Pace that homosexual behavior is a misguided and immoral, even if human, failing not unlike many others weaknesses each of us wrestle with every day. Sadly, today, we are ready to politically crucify anyone who dares to challenge our so-called "enlightment." If freedom of speech and thought is not soon to be extinct in America, it is certainly on the endangered list.

That said, the courageous service of our men and women in uniform is laudable, irrespective of sexual orientation. Perhaps, a phrase from Star Trek's Dr. Spock fits well here when it comes to parsing out the thorny issue of sexually active gay servicemen and women: "The needs of the many must outweigh the needs of one."

You poor christian chumps. You base your ignorance and hate on the imperfect writings of humans that lived almost 2000 years ago. You fool yourself into believing there is an all powerful god. And you accept that "on faith". And your imaginary friend tells you to hate that which you do not understand. Jesus said nothing of homosexuality. However, those of you who pretend to be guided by your "faith" in god use that as a justification to vilify others. Shame on you.

I'm still waiting for christians to follow the example of Jesus and live their lives imitating him - not using the Old Testement as a means to justify your hate. You do Jesus a great diservice. I've met many fine christians who lead by example. I'm waiting for those of you who claim to be true believers and the reborn to actually start living your life as if your friend Jesus was looking over your shoulder. I doubt you would be able to control your vitriol and you would find yourselves on the outside of those pearly gates looking in. Jesus would know hate when he saw it. And wouldn't it just frost your cake to see all those HOMOSEXUALS sitting alongside you god while you are still trying to sweetalk St. Peter?

I am proud of manly General Pace. He is loyal to thousands of years and many nations' histories and natural values.

Merely because perversion is popular with certain carnally-ruled persons does not place the rest of us under any obligation of respect.

Immorality takes many forms and true nature indicates distortions and perversions. Nature validates normal mother-father = child relations. Genetic window-dressing, instead of personal responsibility, won't cut-it. Self-deceit and self-justification is rampant - but not in the natural majority.

always faithful
Jim Baxter
Sgt. USMC
WWII & Korean War

I support General Pace fully. Warner is wrong.

Highly concur with General Pace. He's only saying what everyone else believes as well.

We've had enough of these political correctness groups and its time to show them the door.

No amount of ranting, crying, truth twisting will cloud sane people’s minds.

Thanks to the media, again, another political correctness thought is being constantly thrown in our face.

Can you actually imagine our military (Coast Guard, Navy, Marine Corps, Army, Air Force) accepting homosexuals? The pride of America giving in to perversion? Unfortunately, the great homosexual lie (i.e. normal status) is being pushed on our young people through all types of media; young minds that haven't fully developed yet.

And for those homosexual’s who are serving in the military - you lied on your application and should be held liable for perjury if you decide to bore us with your sexual prefences and "come out of the closet". I believe that's the term you're using now?

Homosexuals are a very, very small percentage of America (for obvious reasons). The perverted good of a few does not outweigh the normalcy of the many.

Perhaps if we stop watching television and start bringing our thoughts to public schools, the legislature, etc., things will change back to the way it was before homosexuals found it necessary to insist that normal people accept them.

Good job, U.S. Military. Keep us proud.

r/J. Rodriguez
31 year U.S. Coast Guardsman

This is a comment form WES:

and Jeff.... can you find me one verse that clearly states it is a sin.. that isn't wrapped in vaguery, that isn't followed with request for women to sacrifice doves when they have their period, when they are not also talking about these people as murderers... you can't.. because the sin was never homosexuality... you know it.. just because you choose to adopt the viewpoint of a person living in 1930's Alabama don't try to hammer me with your personal judgment as a way of denying me a universal right... BIGOTs ARE AS BIGOTs DO...
Posted by: Wes | Mar 13, 2007 4:31:26 PM

Uh Wes..... actually, stepping away from the OT (thats Old Testament for some of you), Paul did speak about homsexuality in the NT (New Testament) in the book of Romans. He was speaking of the moral decay and debauchery that was going on at the time and spoke of men and women giving up their natural desires for "unnatural desires" and perversion. I know that many in the homosexual community claim that the sin at Sodom was "in hospitality" One need only look at the original Hebrew that this was not th case but was indeed homosexulaity. However, seeing where Wes plans to take this, as I stated Paul does address this and other sins in the bok of romans (Romans 1:18-32 specifically verse 27).

What Wes and others of his leaning fail to recognize is that each of us is free to believe and accept morals, values,scripture as we see fit. While I disagree with Wes and others who espouse homosexuality as "natural" I do agree that they have a right to live as they see fit, with the understanding that there are consequences to actions. I will fight (I actually did) for their right to live as they see fit, but I do not want their lifestyle pushed off on me. Neither do I agree that if I fail to accept their lifestyle I should be labeled a homophobic. Does this mean that I can label them christianphobic?

I close with this; General Pace believes, like the majority of Americans (see all the votes for marriage amendments to support my claim;)he believes that homosexuality, like adultry and any other sin, is immoral. He has that right to say what he thinks.

Mark
Wichita

Mr. Foley, I can appreciate your firm support of the General's stance on homosexual behavior.

General, may I recommend that the next time some press reporter asks you how you personally feel about GAY sex, Sir, I suggest you say "Don't Ask" or simply don't tell.

I wish someone had told me that, as I too share your hypocritical condemnation of homo-erotic activities amongst men.

Sinclair Lewis was absolutely correct when he said that, "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
Based on some of the bigoted comments posted here from the "holier than thou" crowd, it would appear that day isn't too far off.

Fascism has always been a product of the Left. If America turns Fascist it will be because the monsters at Daily Kos managed to grab the reins of power.

America can not be defeated by any country. Should America fall, it will fall from within.

Homosexuals, abortion, perversion, are taking us a step closer to this great nation becoming like Europe.

I fully support General Pace in his belief that it's immoral for Gays & Lesbians to sleep together especially in a Military sitting and the Don't Ask--Don't Tell policy in the Military in general is a very poor excuse for letting people with that kind of mindset to serve in an organization that deserves the utmost in moral character. Gays & Lesbians aren't bad people it just means that their sexual preferences aren't or should not be accepted in Military service.
I happen to live in Senator Warners Great State of Virginia and I've had the wonderful pleasure to have met Senator Warner on a number of occasions in the past but on this issue I have to side with General Pase concerning the Gay issue and disgree with Senator Warner.

Thanks,
Billy Haynes
Winchester, Va.

There is nothing NATURAL, NORMAL or RIGHT about two men sodomizing each other!

I'm sure the members of NAMBLA (if don't know who they are google them) feel the same as the homosexuals who posted their crys of discrimination here. That they are being discriminated against for their beliefs and what they feel they were born with. That they should be accepted by society as a whole. And once homosexuality is accepted by the majority I'm sure NAMBLA will be next.

Just like Rome (a sexually pervese society) FELL, so will America. It's just a matter of time.

If you disagree with them they call it fear or ignorance. I disagree with stealing but I'm not afraid of it nor does it make me ignorant to think it's wrong to steal. In the same way I think its wrong, immoral, sin (whatever you want to call it) for two men to sodomize each other.

Has nothing to do with the way I was raised! I just think it a disgusting choice made by two sexually peverted men.

Divorce is just wrong. It is immoral. Jesus compared it to adultery. For this reason we should pass a law which outlaws divorce and restores all first marriages. Divorce's because of their immoral behavior should be banned from military service.

Wow, this issue got the religious right out in force. I thought Illinois was a progressive, cosmopolitan, Northern state (I guess the Internet knows no boundaries) where we realize that matters of faith (which by definition can't be proven) are personal and shouldn't serve as the basis of law. The same reason most of us wouldn't want to live in an Islamic theocracy is the same reason we shouldn't want to live in a Christian theocracy. Ethics can and do exist in a religious-neutral context. Even the atheist (which includes Buddhists and Hinduists, by the way) can agree on the vast majority of "moral" issues. When it comes to matters between consenting adults, American jurisprudence has generally (and is increasingly more so) been deferential to the rights of the individual.

General Pace is a person in a public position, and so he should be aware that any statements he makes about his personal views are subject to scrutiny and should be made carefully lest they be interpreted as official comments by the military. That's the real reason for the uproar. It's his job to enforce the policies, and to advise the policy setters, and not to try to influence them through the court of public opinion. Don't Ask Don't Tell might be good policy. It might be bad. It's for others to decide, however, and Pace's remarks may may some skeptical that he could enforce a decision to lift the ban.

It is never legitimate to use the words of Scripture to promote a loveless agenda.

If homosexuality was so intolerable by God, I'm sure it would have been in the Ten Commandments. Instead we find the only significant passages within the book of Leviticus, Corinthians, and Romans. Jesus never once condemned homosexuality, but instead promoted love, inclusion, tolerance, and acceptance; not exclusion.

There is so much talk about homosexuality being so evil, but how is it more evil than lying, cheating, stealing, and killing by way of wars and foreign sanctions like the vast majority of our past, and current politicians/presidents?

Duh - the General violated the policy by declaring he was not gay.

I am of the opinion that a person's service should be based on his/her performance, not what they do behind closed doors.

Pace can express his opinion... but it is mearly his opinion based on his moral judgements. He does bear a bit more responsibility to choose his words more carefully than your average citizen considering his position of leadership.

The fact is, gay soldiers have served with honor and distintion in military forces throughout the world for centuries. As long as they do their duty and are not disruptive or behave in any other way that brings dishonor to them, I don't see a problem.

Some of these same arguments (moral etc.) are the same ones they used to argue for segregating blacks and whites in the military in the past.

I did an unscientific count of the comments, starting from the top. I found this interesting:

Pro-Homosexual comments = 24,
Anti-Homosexual comments = 40 (I stopped at 64).

But then i counted rude, biting, hurtful comments from those 64 comments. Interestingly, you could argue on how to define "hurtful", "spiteful", and that would be a moral judgment. My definition something a civilized person would not say to a stranger, meeting them for the first time, while speaking face to face.

Of the 24 Pro-Homosexual comments, 10 of them were spiteful and anger-filled (42%).

For the 40 Anti-Homosexual comments, there were 7 (18%).

It strikes me that there is a lot more anger in the Pro-Homosexual side of the issue, as opposed to the oft-accused "hateful" anti-homosexual crowd.

If you knew nothing of the subject, and knew only these statistics, and had to make a judgment of which party was in the right, which one would you choose?

I think Senator John Warner just now committed career suicide, coming out there and chastising General Pace for saying adultery and homosexuality are immoral.

General Pace is right and most people know that and appreciate him for speaking what's on their minds, too.

It's undeniable that homosexuality is a sexual identity disorder. And, like adultery, it's rooted in lust.

Lust is one of universally recognized Seven Deadly Sins, and the cause of every veneral disease known to man.

The don't ask, don't tell policy was a generous one for homosexuals. It allowed them into the military provided they kept their lust bridled.

Those that don't, get the boot.

Personally, I think the policy does a grave disservice to the 90% of military personnel who do NOT suffer from a sexual identity disorder. I know I wouldn't want to be oogled and coveted by women I have to live with.

The sodomite lobby appears to be very powerful, but it's not, in and of itself. It's just got very powerful special interest forces behind it who seek to socially engineer our society until it's corrupted and every deviancy is heralded as normal and trendy.

We all know that wherever there's homosexuality, there's every perversion known to man pounding at the door and demanding to be normalized.

That's why they're hell-bent on getting God out of every public place or school or coin.

Heck, the global warming crowd wants Him out of the entire Universe. As though God can't save the world from us puny humans! No need to pray for deliverance anymore - just bow down and worship AlGore and his puppeteers.

The undisputable thing is, God told us what's moral and what's immoral, and General Pace just reiterated it.

Typical. The largest number of posts on the Swamp is about a General speaking his mind about the private sexual matters of individuals and the majority are the bible-thumpng kind.

Learn the history of the bible and leave Fundamentalist Christianity out of politics and vice versa. Teach you children to respect other and the tenents of your own religion and STOP LEGISLATING MORALITY. Spend more time on your own sinning families and less on others. Peace

I'm curious why we have seperate locker rooms or bathrooms for men and women anymore? Is it OK for a lesbian to eye you while you are changing or getting in/out of the shower, but not a member of the opposite sex? Didn't seperate facilities begin as a way to quell lust between the two sexes? It's OK for a woman to be turned on when I'm in the locker room at my gym but not a man? I'm serious! Seperate lockers and bathrooms don't make sense anymore. I love men and I want to be able to see them naked while changing at the gym. I am being discriminated against because I'm not allowed in the men's locker room but a gay male is allowed there. How does this make any sense?

Anyone noticed the world population lately? Increased gay orientation rates would act as an effective world population control and for that reason I'm all for it. I'm not promoting AIDs here, just birth control.

Also If there was a "gay pill" for cats and dogs there would be much less unwanted cats and dogs that have to be destroyed at animal shelters.

The general is entitled to his opinion. Is he not as an American? It is his moral conviction that he expressed. There are two sides to homosexuality. What God says and what man says. The general sided with God. It is that simple folks.

I support and agree with the General's stance 100%. And I AM a college-educated individual in my 30's.

What I see going on in this blog is a bunch of homosexual activists spitting out vitriol, not to mention acting like toddlers. You've been throwing temper tantrums & have resorted to name calling, bullying & outright verbal assaults... And you wonder why educated people don't listen to you????

Here's a list of words you have used in regards to people that don't agree with your views:

homophobia/homophobe... bigoted/bigot/bigots/bigotries... ignorance/ignorant... close-minded... intolerant... zealot... marginalizing... mean-spirited... prejudiced/prejudices... discrimination... fears... repressed feelings... cowards... backwards... racist... hate mongers... unenlightened troglodyte... hick/hicks... morons... KKK... limited knowledge... uneducated... small-minded... lowlifes... nation of bigots... Neanderthals... religious fanatics... venom... false truths... hate-filled...

This isn't everything I've come across in this blog, but I think it is VERY TELLING... Rather than deal with things in an adult manner you bait, attack & demean. Do you really think people are going to respect you & listen to you when you talk like that?

Good for you, General Pace!

Some acts repeat acts, of homosexuals are immoral and sinful; just as heterosexuals. General Pace inferred that some repeat some homosexual behavior is immoral hence sinful. He did not say that homosexuals were of any by themselves "immoral". Those of you who wish to use his comments as a vehicle to stir up trouble, are wrong, wrong, wrong.

I thought it would be easy for people to understand that if you just don't pay any attention to religion, you still have "morals". You still know the difference between right and wrong. It's amazing to me how many arguments are a result of religion....think about it. If you just realize that it's all a big story and fable, the better off you'll be. If "jesus" were born today....the world would treat him just like David Koresh...they'd kill him. So, the faster that everyone realize that all the world's problems have a root in Religion...the better off we'll all be.

Every Christian and Jewish Bible reads, in part as follows:

Leviticus 18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination"

If Senator Warner wants to disagree with the General, I guess he feels privileged to dispute scripture as well. I didn't know he was that enlightened.

Ridiculous... I can't believe that I read, in another article covering this story, someone actually said that "personal opinions are not important."

This country was founded on personal opinions. On personal opinions about the immorality of certain actions. And now we want to remove both opinions and morality from the public and political realms...

I find it humorous that nearly every last gay apologist uses the word "ignorant" to describe those who have a source of knowledge based on something beyond their own whims and appetites.

In the military, it is important to have soldiers who are capable of basic moral discipline, and especially important to have soldiers who know that there is more to morality than what they feel like doing at any given instant.

Mr Pace, do the right thing and fulfill your duty to our troops and resign immediately. You are not fit to serve. Your contined presense in that uniform will be a constant distraction to what is needed for our troops. Those comments are disgusting.

Barry, you aren't ignorant enough to think that Leviticus 18 was actually written by God? A basic Old Testament history course will teach you that Leviticus was not written until many centuries after the events it purported to detail. In fact, many scholars don't think Leviticus was written until about the fourth or fifth century B.C., many centuries after the events reported in Leviticus. Note that Conservative, Reform, and Reconstructionist Judaism today blesses gay marriages and accepts gay rabbis. So do some Christian denominations and churches. Further, the same Leviticus you quote says that disobedient children should be stoned and eating shellfish is sinful. Surely, any intelligent person doesn't think this is from God. But then again, many religious conservatives can't be expected to be intelligent or enlightened.

I'm tired of special rights being pushed by our law makers, because of whom or how someone has sex. Somehow (I suspect via public education) the public has accepted the idea that people who are different must have special rights. I'm sorry, no. The problem is that most of the American public is so self-involved and wants be perceived by everyone as being fair minded that they have abandoned the idea that you can discriminate and reject ideas and are not a racist. But the public has been pacified by the idea of being labeled as some sort of racist that they hide among the cowards, oh I'm sorry crowds because it is easier and requires no effort.

Thank God that General Pace was willing to take a stand for what is moral and right. If the amoral left ever does take over the military then my children will not serve. It's SO REFRESHING to see someone willing to take a stand for what's right.

There ARE moral absolutes and people who know this will not be shouted down by the "anything goes" crowd. We will not allow our country to be destroyed. Our founding fathers must be rolling in their graves:-(

What the general believes and $3 will buy a gallon of gasoline.

And ban those who divorce from political office too!

If gays in the military was a problem you would think it would show it to be a problem in other Nations, it has not.

Then you have the arrogant american that suggests the US military is some how different/better and it just wouldn't work in America. Whatever bone heads.

It is immoral & you can't be an upstanding Christian in your service to GOD if you break his laws repeatedly. A homosexual cannot serve in the service of GOD. And it is not discrimination, it is a choice these people have made. They have to bear the consequences. Can somebody prove to me how two openly homosexual people of the same sex can procreate without any assistance from science? Everyone who thinks otherwise has screwed-up core mores - right on General Pace!

For those of you who like to read, thought I'd recommend a few good books:

After the Ball (written by gays activists for gays)
and
The Marketing of Evil (a REAL eye opener)

After reading these, you'll really know what's going on. ;)

I am amazed at the bigotry on behalf of many on this board. Posts stating that America should "expel homosexuals as undesirables"?? Was Hitler correct in expelling those who he deemed to be undesirable?
I take issue with those who use the Holy Bible to smear homosexuals. The bible, like all scripture, must be INTERPRETED in the context of today. Alongside the reference to homosexuality, for example, is a statement condemning women as subservient and justifying the holding of slaves. Do dumb Southern hicks like Patty Nottoli or Fred Thomas agree with slavery also (fortunately they lost that war)? It was Jesus who said that "Whosoever follow me shall enter my kingdom." In this statement there was no provision for entering the Kingdom of God except for necessity that man should "love thy neighbor with all his heart." General Pace and the bloggers on this site who have called homosexuals "lust-filled" "sodomites" are conveying words of hate; is this what Jesus would want?

I strongly support Gen. Pace's remarks, and his beliefs. He's right.

First, the Military should not be made into a cauldron of social gamesmanship. They have a difficult duty and a responsibility to this country, and that responsibility is much more important than to allow these fighting social issues to ferment.

Morality is not all about Religion. Some people who Church have morality, others who've never been have more. But, in these times, we are seeing a regression of Human morality, a degredation of Humans. people who are Human would face a moral trial, like homosexuality, and turn away from it. Some, weaker, people succumb to their narcissistic, animalistic desires, and lose...their Humanity.

There's a lot of people in this world, but, after the trials of life, far fewer remain Human.

I agree with General Pace 100%, I applaud his bravery and integrity for being honest and I deplore Senator Warner for selling out his true beliefs for political correctness.

Boy, I sure know why they call this "The Swamp". You people are vile and disgusting!

Unscientific poll lol. I am sure Liberace has posted 21 times pro gay posts.

The post by PJ about shellfish being in the bible. It's not in my bible. PJ what kind of bible do you have? More in likely you don't even have one. If you do have one I would encourage you to read it. You might even learn something.

Some of you defend Pace because you, like him, are ignorant, primitive hicks. You don't like all the changes in society, especially amongst the young, the well-educated, and the masses living in big cities and college towns. You live in fear of difference, so you huddle in your little small towns and Southern villages and express disdain for modern society and views. Your lack of exposure to diversity and reality means that you remain your ignorant state. The fact that you spout off such ignorant views reflects that you are also very arrogant about your Dark Age ignorance. Anyone who has a problem with the gender/sex someone has relationships with is just plain ignorant and should be denounced.

Jethro,

"That is the most ignorant argument I've seen since Rick "man on dog" Santorum. Homosexuality is not equatable with necrophilia, pedophilia and homophilia."

Says you. But who are you to decide.

And that is the ultimate question, isn't it? If you can decide what is moral then nothing is immoral. And if you're able to decide what is moral "to you" then who are you to judge Pace with his view? Wouldn't his view be on exactly the same level as your view? Who is to decide? Public opinion?

I think I'll go with the view held by virtually all people (statistically) since the beginning of time - homosexuality is immoral.

This a free country!!! Let the man(General) express his views. The Senator doesn't seem to have a problem expressing his, and beside it's not the General's personal view, it's a bible view and he chooses to believe it.

I think this and several other recent backlashes against homophobic people are the real death knell for homophobia. There is a scale of mealy-mouthed euphemism where a person thinks something like "homosexuality is wrong", and they feel moved to stupidly express it in public, while at the same time being mindful that it isn't the kind of thing one says any more. They will start "I know this isn't fashionable/ PC/ we're not allowed to say things that are true any more ..." but they will, in the end, get to the point. When people start alluding to their views like a medical complaint (legitimate but unmentionable), looping their argument out of embarrassment - "I hold this opinion because this is my opinion" - it's all over, really. They know they are wrong and that expressing such views today will cost them dearly. Acceptance of homosexuality is not only inevitable, it is already here. Thankfully.

For all the religious knuckleheads out there, morality has ZERO to do with the bible. As a matter of fact my experience in life has been that religious people are the first ones to stab you in the back, then they run to confess and everything is better. I got one question for you, How come god created homosexuals if they are living in immorality? Surely your god is not so heartless as to create someone that would be tortured all their lifetime.

Homosexuals are born that way, it is not a choice. People have libidos, people choose to have sex for fun, people dont choose who turns them on. Human Beings are sexual, why dont all you uptight prudes try being human.

This country has become a place of cowards and hypocrytes. The man has his right to express his feelings and not be tongue and pen whipped if he believes homosexual acts are immorral. Homosexuals scream freedom of speech and civil liberties as long as it fits neatly into their own personal views. What a bunch of BS. GIVE ME A BREAK!!!

Comments above include things like "matters of faith are personal and shouldn't serve as the basis of law" and "leave Fundamentalist Christianity out of politics" and "stop legislating morality". What gives these people justification to judge other people's spiritual basis for political or legal views? If we stopped legislating morality, we would have to get rid of laws against murder, rape, stealing, cheating, and all the other moral minimums that society has decided on. These laws have no possible basis upon anything OTHER than moral enlightenment. If you don't have that enlightenment from a higher source, then your morality comes from nowhere but the people around you and social norms. That means you are just part of a moral mob, who is capable of justifying literally any immoral act.

If america had not legislated morality and had kept Christianity out of politics ca 150 years ago, we would still have slavery -- and it would still be the moral norm. If Rome had not legislated morality and had kept Christianity out of politics ca 1,500 years ago, we would still have infanticide -- and IT would still be the moral norm. Don't think you're somehow magically above any of the age-old behaviors of human beings... that you somehow, ON YOUR OWN, decided that it's wrong to kill babies. You did not. You've been conditioned by your immersion in a society that has been legislating its morality for a long time. You don't have to search very hard to find horrific examples of what happens to societies who stop looking to God, and who base their morality and law on the latest "progressive" man-made ideologies, such as fascism or communism, instead.

If Senator Warner doesn't believe that homosexuality is immoral, he doesn't beileve in the Bible either. All he has to do is read...

As a veteran of the Marine Corps, General Pace is 100% correct. There is a reason why real leaders like him come from the Marine Corps.

That is also why there are people like Senator Warner - Washington is an evil place, full of people like the senator.

Onward xtian soldiers, better you than the thinking types.

"Hate the Sin and Not the Sinner" unless they continue to Sin.

The thought of commiting it again and again while Glorifying the action and producing warped justification for more.. is a form of Insanity.

One lie begats another until the truth is distorted into false reasoning. No amount of twisted excuses will soften the fact that Same-sex lust will degrade the collective social policy of any advanced Race.

I stand with Gen. Pace 100% and I applaude his Direct Honesty, which is rare in this Demented PC
World!

HHMMM Homosexuality is immoral? Where was General Pace when Brad/Angelina had a baby, when Tom/Katie were expecting. Not immoral? Believe it people, there are homosexual actors, teachers, mayors, lawyers, doctors, dentists, artists, singers, lawmakers, etc. They are respectable, honest, hardworking, and contribute much to society. Some of the heterosexual, welfare state, baby producing, UNMARRIED but living together cannot say the same thing. Remember when a black guy was hanged when he showed interest in a white woman? Now, they're married!!!! Get real and catch up with the rest of the world, Gen. Pace and other prejudiced people. Not everybody has to live as you do.

As a Christian I want to thank the General for standing up for Godly values.. Those of you that are willing to reclassify homosexuality as acceptable really need ask yourself why? God condemned it in the Old testament and and it was also condemned in several places in the New Testament. Trying to reclassify it as acceptable according to the scriptures is just political correctness run amuck.

Jesus does love homosexuals, just like he loves all sinners.. But dont confuse love of the sinner with love of the sin. We have the strongest military in the world. Thank you to all are men and women in uniform.

Can I just say "remember the Spartans". I find it fitting that the movie 300 was just released. If you look at the true history of the Spartans you will find that homosexuality indeed caused the greatest nation of that time to fall flat on it face! Yes that would be the Spartans. Be queer all you want but don't expect me to accept it or even tolerate it. If I find out one of my friends is queer...they are not my friend anymore and I guess we are both better off.

I think what has all the bigots and homophobes in such a tizzy is that, one by one, the laws that have enabled their bigotry for all these many years are finally going by the wayside.

More and more countries around the world as well as states here in the United States are now making homosexual unions legal, just like the horribly discriminatory laws that outlawed interracial marriage just a few short decades ago went the way of the dinosaur before them.

And the homophobes are now feeling utterly powerless to stop it.

Discrimination is discrimination. And the simple fact that these issues are now being discussed in an open forum, and where even “four star” bigots are now being called on the carpet for the words they use while discussing the issue is actually cause for celebration. That’s because it is a sure sign that all their blatantly discriminatory “rules” will soon be exposed for what they really are and will then (finally!) be relegated to the dustbin of history, too.

As Pierre Trudeau once said, “The State as no business poking about in the bedrooms of our nation”. And for us to continue to allow our own “state”…in the form of the US military…to do so makes us little more than a theocracy…very much like those “terrorist” states we are now so gleefully bombing into oblivion.

Unfortunately, this whole sorry episode is yet more proof that our United States is still projecting itself as everything that it is not while at the same time condemning everything that it is.

how come a teeny deviant minority is so loud?

Bottom line:
Homosexuality is 'abnormal'. Before you get excited, continue reading.
Homosexuality is not moral or immoral. It's a deviance from the norm, in terms of biological behavior. Scientifically, it's abnormal. Morally, well, each society must determine that based on its guidelines. Science does not depend on things such as politics (unless you include Global Warming-always upper case ;), culture, or the times. It relies on facts and repeated verification.

Fact: If all creatures, great and small were homosexual (that is, exclusively mating with their own gender), all species would die out in a single generation.

If that's not a deviance from the norm, I don't know what is.
Personally, I don't care either way, but scientifically those are the facts.

What homosexuals do or don't do in a society is irrelavant. They exist. Banning gays from certain careers is a no-win situation. It would be better to allow homosexuals the exact same priveliges heterosexuals enjoy. With that said, homosexuality must never be considered 'normal' in biological terms. That would be political. Downs Syndrome is not normal, yet we shouldn't restrict those who suffer with it. Color blindness is not normal, etc. Homosexuality, found to be generated by an 'abnormal' change in the brain, is similarly a deviation from the norm.

If I believed in your ignorant fundamentalist views, I would go to your extremist church. I am a well-educated, progressive Christian who does not use the Bible to justify bigotry and ignorance. After all, the Bible says to stone children; condones slavery; states that women should remain silent in church; states that men are the head of the woman; and says that sin entered the world through a woman. The Bible was written by men, not by God. While there is some truth in it, is not a direct dictation of God's perfect words. It contains the errors of personal prejudice, time, and limited knowledge. I used to go to one of those fundamentalist churches, but the ignorance and prejudice found in such places led me to a progressive church. I now attend a church and denomination that blesses gay marriages and accepts gay people, as well as blacks, Hispanics, and female pastors. Anti-gay views are eroding as education increases. When you express anti-gay views, you are outing yourself as a very uneducated and small-minded person.

Posted by: Malcolm J | Mar 13, 2007 5:13:03 PM

Hilarious!!

Because someone expresses views that are anti-gay does not mean they are not educated. I am sure that Gen Pace is probably more educated than you. In fact, I think you will find that a substantial majority of conservative Christians are highly educated. I go to a “progressive church” that has an average of 4,500 attendees a week, most of which have a minimum of a 4 year degree from an accredited institution of higher education. I am pretty sure that substantially all think homosexuality is wrong.

As for your accepting church, I wonder if God will accept them, considering his views on Homosexuality considering it is an abomination. I guess we will all see on judgment day?? The bible tells us not to even eat with a person who is sexually immoral (yes this would include homosexuals as well as heterosexuals having sex outside of marriage). Better hope grace is a strong as you think it is.

As for what the bible says, you need to read context to ascertain God's views. In addition, their are many things in the Old Testament that have passed, such as stoning and the like. God was very harsh in dealing with people. Note that homosexuality as a sin is carried forward as evidenced in the writings of Paul.

Yes, the bible was written by men, but if you are a Christian as you say, you must also remember that those men walked and talked with Jesus (God). Their writings are inspired by God through a personal relationship with him, not the same as we have since we didn't actually get to meet him in the flesh. I believe them over your distorted views of interpretations or errors.

As for the women being silent in the church, that was, at least based on my understanding, the addressing of an issue at a particular church. At this church, the women were not educated like the men, and were instructed to be quite as they were disruptive. It was situational. Paul calls Phoebe a deaconess. If you read about the qualifications of a deacon, you will find they are leaders in a church, not silent. Just because you do not understand the bible does not mean it is only partially true. If it is only partially true, then you are living a lie since you call your self a Christian.

Bigot and Ignorant are definitely relative terms. Bigot (One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ) for instance depends on ones partiality to a specific group. I would contend that you sir are a bigot since you think the previous poster was ignorant. By its very definition, you have associated yourself with a particular group that you differ. Before pull the splinter out of your brother’s eye, you must first remove the plank from you own.

Ignorance (The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed) is more akin to lack of education, awareness, or not having all the information, but not necessarily a difference in a point of view. It is unfortunate that we cannot have different points of view without being called a name. Ah but alas, I must be a simple minded and uneducated intolerant bigot because I think homosexuality is wrong. I guess your views are more important that anyone else’s.

I pray the progressive will be redefined to mean finding new ways to attract people to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, not a justification for a complete and utterly despicable lack of respect for the word of God, justification for an action that is completely outside of God’s realm of acceptability, and dare I say IMMORAL?

As a side note, I do not hate gays; I just do not condone their actions. Love the sinner, hate the sin, right??

Sen. Warner

I now know why you never ran for President of
the U.S. You would never be elected because of
your morals. I like many Americans thought more
highly of you, we were wroung.

So Sorry

General Pace for President! God Bless you General for speaking the truth. Homosexuality is the cause of the fall of ancient Egypt, Greece and Rome and it will be the cause of the fall of the West if this evil is not rejected. Immorality and widespread vice always lead to the breakdown and weakening of society. May real men stand strong agaist the evil of homosexuality and not be a bunch of effeminate fags.

HOMOSEXUALS HAVE, AT THE VERY LEAST, A SEVERE
MENTAL PROBLEM THAT CAN ONLY BE HELPED BY GETTING
PSYCHIATRIC HELP. THEY WERE NOT BORN WITH THIS
TRAGIC MENTAL STATE AND THROUGH EXTENSIVE
THERAPY COULD POSSIBLY BECOME A NORMAL AND
HEALTHLY HUMAN BEING.

General Pace for President!

"Homosexuality is immoral": From the same people who brought you "Pro-Life" yet have no problem executing mentally challanged people and killing hundreds of thousands of Iraqi Civilians. Jesus must be really proud of all of us right about now.

"Forgive them Father for they know not what they do." Jesus

What could possibly be more immoral than being the altar boy in George Bush's church of death and destruction?

This self-righteous horse's buttocks also commented that he thinks Bush is speaking with Jesus and God is guiding his hand. For such a deep and sensitive thinker with such boundless human compassion, this stunning realization no doubt provides ample rationalization to go right ahead and slaughter people in a country that posed absolutely no threat to anyone except to Chevron and Exxon/Mobil (and the retards with a "Support Our Troops" Chinese-made yellow ribbon magnet on the back of their gas-guzzling SUV.) After all, it's all authorized by God Almighty. Honest Injun it is.

War is a racket, Pace, and you're such a deeply-warped goody two-shoes myopic mama's boy you have no hope of ever seeing the world clearly for the remainder of your emotionally bereft existence. Therefore your opinions about what's immoral are as relevant as a camel flea fart in a sandstorm. The only real problem in this display of abject ignorance are the 60,000 military personnel subjected to your "leadership" that happen to be homosexual. For their sake, and for the other millions of Americans you so insult, you should resign and open a golf pro shop in Tikrit.

Hey, look on the bright side -- your pal Gonzo Gonzalez might just be free to join you.

Right on Chief, keep it straight!

Sen Warner is a panderer, he`s up for re-election in 08 and he needs the Homo vote in Northern Virginia to put him over the top

Wow. "The Swamp" indeed.

Perhaps the reason that Warner (among other military leaders) is backing away from this idiotic statement is that the military is having an increasing problem making their recruiting goals, even as the Army reduces their quota numbers. Given the choice between backing away from "Don't Ask Don't Tell" and reinstating the draft, which option do you think the US military would prefer?

Last time I checked, I lived in the United States of America, not the United States of Jesusland. Gay people and Christians (and gay Christians) and everybody else needs to work together to unscrew up the disaster in the Mideast that is Iraq.

No one cares how Santa, Apollo or Zeus feel about homosexuality. The only way to make sure everyone's god's opinions on everything get their fair shake is to keep them out of the public sphere.

I don't believe in the tooth fairy, but I'm not going to stop any child from her fantasy. I feel the same way about General Pace.

Why are people so afraid to take on the " so called Christians." The Christians that forgot to love one another, to avoid judgement, care for the poor, not murder. It's time to face the fact that America is corrupt. greedy and hypocritical. IT TWISTS THE WORDS OF RELIGION TO JUSTIFY ITS GREED, RACISM AND BIGOTRY. The Spanish did the same thing when they attempted to "bring God to the indigenous people of America and all they brought was greed, racism and slavery." Sound familiar? Please moral high ground I think not. You religious bigots better watch out because I know where you are going its too bad it will be too late to realize your hatred and greed in the end will BE YOUR UNDOING.
Posted by: nicholas | Mar 13, 2007 3:59:19 PM

I'm sick and tired of immoral behavior whether it's gay or Hollywood, artist or politician, athlete or musician, televangelist or priest.

Does anybody out there have an historical perspective that can see the decay of this infant society (a mere 300+ years old), progressing at mach speed?

Last week the USA Today ran a front page piece titled AMERICANS ARE IGNORANT OF RELIGION (BIBLE)...the fact is that it is this very same IGNORANCE that fuels the flames of the self-righteous homosexuals and lesbians who can't understand why those of us who are Biblically LITERATE would prefer to agree with the Word of God on the subject of moral conduct....The BIBLE clearly condemns this kind of behavior as a SIN and it uses he strongest possible language in condemning it. The General owes an apology to no one and it sickens me that he would even offer the slightest apology for stating his firmly held convictions. You are getting softer by the day AMERICA...very soft indeed.

Polls indicate that the majority of young adults and teenagers support gay rights, including gay marriage. Moreover, polls and surveys indicate that the majority of well-educated and affluent people support gay rights. IN contrast, opposition to gay equality is highest amongst the least educated, rural, Southerners, and older people. So, anti-gay sentiment is associated with being poorly educated, older, and rural, not exactly stellar demographics for such views. The younger, well-educated generation is very accepting of same-sex unions for the most part. The gender that someone loves is irrelevant to us. Anti-gay views are for the ignorant, primitive-minded and reflect a deficient intellect.
Posted by: Marcos Fernandez | Mar 13, 2007 4:03:38 PM

There is a reason, it is called maturity. Most of us grow up and put away childish things. I am both well educated and affluent (40, which I assume makes me old), as are substantially all of my friends and coworkers, but we all beleive homosexualty is immoral. Since when are teenagers well educated? So much for stellar demographics?? Must have lowered the standard in the North or West, which is why I assume you are dogging southern folk. I guess your poll results must be flawed, like you views.

Gay marriage?? Why is this even improtant? Marriage is a biblical principle and is defined as a union between a man and a woman. Seems contridictory to me to merge a biblical principle with an unbiblical principle?? Outside of a that, why does anyone need to be married. It's just a piece of paper outside of its intended context.

Do we need any better reason for term limits than Senator Warner?

Pace finds nothing immoral about sending soldiers into battle without armour or proper training? Reminds me of the Cracker Lifers I knew that didn't mind blacks in the army but didn't like some in our unit . . .

While I vehemently disagree with General Pace's comments regarding the morality of homosexuality, I support his free speech right to express his personal views. However, I think it's wholly inappropriate for him to do so as an officer of the public, under the banner of a U.S. general.

For all of you people who use religious reasons for attacking homosexuality, you really need to understand that we have a secular government. If we base our government on the tenets of the Bible, I don't see a whole heck of a lot of difference between us and countries in the Middle East, who base theirs off the Qu'ran.

"Jesus does love homosexuals, just like he loves all sinners.. But dont confuse love of the sinner with love of the sin. We have the strongest military in the world. Thank you to all are men and women in uniform.

Posted by: Dale | Mar 13, 2007 8:34:11 PM"

Really, Dale,

Do you think Jesus likes our military in particular, or any in general?

What war would Jesus love?

Who would Jesus kill?

Was Jesus a philosopher?

I just love reading these public forum comments, this is funnier than comedy central!

Hmmmm...too many references to the Bible. I really don't care what the Bible says. What I object to (thank you John Doe) is the relentless assault of one percent of the population who controls the media and rams their queer views down our throat. Anyone who disagrees with the one-percenters should:

1) Not watch network television.
2) Quit supporting the Hollywierd "entertainment industry.
3) Don't buy advertised products (you'll spend less $$$ by doing this, too)
4) Spend your money locally at locally owned businesses (the revolution begins at home)

Dr. Rev. Peter Short
Soddom and Gomorrah ring a bell?

First off, and I never yell but this needs to be said, EVERY SINGLE "CHRISTIAN" INDIVIDUAL WHO IS ADVOCATING REMOVING FORCES FROM THE MILITARY MUST IMMEDIATELY RISE AND HEAD TO THE NEAREST ENLISTMENT OFFICE. Put up or shut up. If this war is as important as you say (and what oh what is more Christ-like than pre-emptive war???), you owe it to yourself and your country to fight it. Otherwise, immediately cease advocating for the dismissal of fully-functioning soldiers.

In a generation, we will all look back at this era with the same contempt as we do the efforts to maintain the illegality of inter-racial marriage. Back then, people used the same tired, "Biblical," arguments to justify rank discrimination. In less than 20 years gays will be granted full equal rights, whether that means "marriage" or a civil union with the same benefits as heterosexuals.

John Paul,

"When all is said and done, we must contrast two opposing facts. One is that the bible is true and all of its teachings."

Simply put, this is not a fact. It is your belief that is based on a book and your family's traditions.

"Thus if you follow the teachings of the bible your conclusions are very plain. Homosexuality is immoral."

This may or may not be accurate. Regardless, it is a miniscule piece of the Bible. 6 or 7 passages might reference homosexuality, and I personally doubt that you know which ones they are. Do you follow these other teachings?

DEUTERONOMY 22:13-21
If it is discovered that a bride is not a virgin, the Bible demands that she be executed by stoning immediately.
DEUTERONOMY 22:22
If a married person has sex with someone else's husband or wife, the Bible commands that both adulterers be stoned to death.
MARK 10:1-12
Divorce is strictly forbidden in both Testaments, as is remarriage of anyone who has been divorced.
LEVITICUS 18:19
The Bible forbids a married couple from having sexual intercourse during a woman's period. If they disobey, both shall be executed.
MARK 12:18-27
If a man dies childless, his widow is ordered by biblical law to have intercourse with each of his brothers in turn until she bears her deceased husband a male heir.

"Secondly, those that do not believe the bible is true and do not believe its teachings or follow them, can conclude only one thing. Anything goes outside of moral restraints and Godly convictions."

In my opinion, there is one line that is the true essence of the Bible. It is "love thy neighbor as thyself." The Golden Rule. This teaching is part of all of the major religions. Christian, Jewish, Islamic, Buddhist, Hindu, Native American, Tao... I would call this a universal truth.

If everyone followed this, there would be peace on Earth. To do so, though, one must put themselves in someone else's shoes. Once there, they realize that homosexuality is almost exclusively not a choice. It is present in human beings across the world at approximately 10% and often recognizable at ages far too young to be the result of "choice." They see that the person in whose shoes they stand is a loving, caring human being who simply wants the same rights that others have. They want to be free from bigotry and hatred. You see, if one loves thy neighbor as thyself, there can be no hatred, no discrimination and no suffering at the hands of the self-righteous.

Posted by: John Doe | Mar 13, 2007 2:13:03 PM
"those that find their sexual behavior immoral/offensive won't have to get bombarded with their lifestyle 24 hours a day on every network show, in every newspaper, etc... even though they only represent a small percentage of the overall society."

What channel is it that you are watching and what newspaper is it that you are reading? I consider myself a pretty average television viewer and I almost never see homosexuals "flaunting their agenda." You need to change the channel.

J Wilson,

"Hide and watch: ten or fifteen years from now, pedophiles and necrophiles, etc. will be "coming out" with pride."

Can we place a wager on this one, sir? You can not produce any documentation whatsoever to support your previous assertion that necrophilia and pedophiles are gaining acceptance. Please, open your eyes. I don't know who feeds you this garbage, but I hope you will accept my challenge to find some evidence to support this ridiculous assertion. You will find only innuendo supported by absolutely no factual evidenced.

Mark from Wichita, Kansas,

"In short, the notion of man on man sex is not natural."

Well, if by "natural" you mean "occuring in nature," hundreds of animal species have been documented engaging in homosexual activities. On a scientific level, I would consider that "natural." http://www.bidstrup.com/sodomy.htm

And for George, who questioned why National Geographic wasn't showing him programs on animal homosexuality, I'll give you that it isn't on TV but nonetheless here is documentation of widespread animal homosexuality: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal_2.html

To the "Christian" fundamentalists who have dominated this topic, I want to repeat this Fundamental Truth that is the basis for all major religions: Love thy neighbor as thyself. Understand what that entails. Repeat after me, and let it sink in to the depth of your soul:

Love thy neighbor as thyself
Love thy neighbor as thyself
Love thy neighbor as thyself

Thank you General Pace! Take as many bows as you like, as often as you like for expressing your views that you consider very important!

Did anyone mention the Ten Commandments given to us by Our Lord and God, Jesus Christ, the only Son of our Father in Heaven?

The Ten Commandments are the first basic laws given to us to obey, for God Himself alone gave them to us because He saw that we greatly needed them:

http://www.theind.com/blog/uploaded_images/10com2-756952.jpg

http://www.joewindish.com/archives/images/DSCF0003.jpg

http://home.hetnet.nl/~antoonwierda/sermons/10com.jpg

The comment about necrophilia, pedophilia, etc. is not to equate them with homosexuality, I believe, but to call attention to practices that are still widely considered immoral. But *why* these are immoral is just as hard to define except by falling back on some first principle, and first principles just don't appear out of thin air. So we're left to our moral sense, often guided by a fixed, external reference point like religion.

In other words, General Pace believes that homosexuality is immoral, as do I and probably a strong majority of Americans. Those who don't like this (when not simply sputtering "ignorant!" "retarded!") try to paint this as a persecution, but that is either being cynically manipulative or lacking imagination about what a real persecution looks like.

Pace is entitled to his own opinion but he should keep it to himself. He shows what a true moron bigot he is when quoted, on the record, by The Chicago Tribune.

Finally, a man that has the guts to stand up for truth and speak against this disgusting sexual behavior. I agree wholeheartly agree with General Pace, and I highly respect him for not bowing down to these radical sexaul deviants. There is no doubt, in my mind, that they will use their power and money to try to silence and intimidate him into submission. They use weak men of character, such as John Warner, to carry out their purpose. Wake up and smell the coffee people! The deviants have infiltrated the ranks of the Repulican party, just as much as they have on the other side. John Warner, John McCain, Dick Cheney, the govenator, are just a few examples such cowardice. How can we continue to allow this disgusting, immmoral and unnatural lifestyle to be forced upon us. It's time that men of principle stand up and speak against this evil force that masquerades itself as "love".

Mankind is doomed if continue on that path. If we indeed love the Homosexual community, then we must speak truth. We must not allow the radicals to force us, against our will and beliefs, into submission. We must fight against the tide of this destructive force.

Wow--lots of hate here in Chicago and lots of misinformed people. Perhaps the cold has frozen your brains?

Im gay, rich and live in LA. You people who are talking about homosexuality as immoral need to get a clue, a life and a perhaps a new church.

Pace is a moron.

Why does the gay mafia find it so surprising that there are so many people in agreement with this fine man Gen.Pace.How long did they think they could keep craming this in our face through the media and imposing it on our children in there schools.Sincerely,registered Independent Voter.P.S. This is something that Dem.,Ind.and Rep. all agree on.

Of course homosexuality is immoral. It was, is and always will be.

Major religions of the world consider it to be immoral: Christianity, Islam, Hindu, Buddhism, Judaism.

Homosexuality, for all you non-religious types, is also contrary to Evolutionary Theory. It's a practice which will not allow "the survival of the species." In other words, it's a parasitic practice relying on the offspring reproduced by others.

So homosexuality is immoral based on religious views, and scientifically has no redeeming value.

General Pace is correct. The truth hurts, doesn't it?

Britain's open army had cases of gays raping straight comrades in arms. Netherlands open army had cases of gays raping straight comrades in arms. The usa air force just convicted a gay officer of raping 4 staight airmen and attempted 2 others. Is this immoral or do we need a gay conquest medal added to the list of honors. Some one explain to me how the military deals with this. I think the thought of posibility being raped will cause much trouble as far as lets all get along and love, love one another in the service. Don't ask don't tell but in the air force 6 innocent straight guys told. Should they be court marshaled for telling.

"General Pace for President" - He has my vote.

I respectfully but strongly disagree with the Rhino republicans view that homosexuality is moral. how did all these rhino's get elected?

Why isn't anyone upset that the general also declared extra-marital sexual relationships to be immoral. Are we only concerned about gay rights. What about the rights of married men and women to have sex with anyone they want?

The point of laws and regulations should not be based upon morality-be it christian or any other religion. Pace is entitled to his own opinion and that is fine. The real issue is what is fair. Is it fair to make people hide who they really are because other people don't want to deal with it. Is it fair to hold certain groups of people to harsher and more restrictive laws simply because the majority group finds them to be undesirable. Obviously, if you take personal views/religion out of it; it is not fair and it does not promote justice and liberty in a nation whose motto is "liberty and justice for all." Think about it.

I hate to break it to all the homophobes on here saying that homosexuality is a "choice", but take it from a straight guy...if you think homosexuality is a "choice" it means you think (as logic would dictate) that HETEROSEXUALITY is a "choice" (albeit the "right choice" to you).

You know what that means, gay bashers? It means YOU are at the very least bisexual, and possibly gay yourselves! Why else would it be a "choice"...any REAL straight person knows there is no way they could be attracted to someone of the opposite sex. There is NO choice...why would it be different for homosexuals?

Also, to the bible-thumpers trying to say that making homosexuality "moral" would open the door to civilization's downfall...give it a rest. Homosexuality is an expression of LOVE...the most important thing the Bible advocates. It is NOT the equivalent of pedophilia or necrophilia...in which one half of the relationship are not "willing" participants (children and dead people, unlike gay adults, don't WANT to have sex...PERIOD). There is no comparison.

Laws are based on rational thought, not a centuries-old book of questionable origins and with multiple authors. It is not the "law" of this or any other land, for good reason...it is often grossly outdated as it is a relic of the time and place in which it was written.

But hey, when someone claims that "soon pedophiles will be 'coming out with pride'", there's no reasoning with them, for they are idiots. Victimless crimes are not crimes...and there are no "victims" in mutual gay relationships..only love (and not just physical, but emotional as well).

But I say again, people who feel being gay is a choice ARE GAY. And everyone knows it.

To C.Morris

Who do you think ordered his angels to kill the Egyptians first born in Moses time?

I hope when my time comes that I will receive his mercy rather than his justice.

Santorum was right.

If homosexuality is not immoral then neither is bestiality, adultery and group sex.

There is a lot of confusion regarding homosexuality here. People are saying it is psychological, and others are saying it is physiological, and a few others are saying there is a gay gene. These things are so far from the truth.

People how have engrossed in homosexual sin are full on possessed by demons and I have known testimonies of people who "were" homosexual and unable to get out of the lifestyle, and most were adamant that it was okay and they could live a gay lifestyle and be a Christian.

Once the demon was cast out of these people they changed almost immediately. They no longer had any desire for gay sex, and saw clearly for the first time in years that it is sin and it is wrong. That is the real problem, these people are so engrossed in their sin that demons now possess them. Once the demons are gone they can be free, otherwise most will never be free of it.

I think to solve the homosexuality problem in this country and the world, we need to love the sinner and hate the demon and cast it out just like Jesus did when he walked the earth.

As for you clowns that say "judge not lest you be judged" and other comments like "thou shall not murder". Please stop taking those scriptures out of context and repeating what you hear on TV. Go get a Bible and actually read it in context and learn that Jesus is very much for the war. Read the book of Revelation and you will discover that one day Jesus will come back to the Earth and destroy those who are opposed to Him and His Word. You can laugh and say it is fantasy, but on that day when you are condemned the words you read here will ring in your ears and you will be judged by God by your own words.

Wake up people it is later than you think and time is running out.

General Pace:

Soldier On!

Truth is not a matter decided by vote. One man armed with the truth will, when the ballots are counted (by God) prevail over a world full of those adhering to a lie. Did you all learn nothing from the story of Noah, the ark and the flood? Just because "practically everybody" says it (homosexual acts)are not immoral doesn't mean that "PRACTICALLY EVERYBODY" won't find themselves severed from God, heaven and eternal life. Did the more recent story of Soddom and Gomorrah not refresh your perception and remind you that evil things don't become okay because "everybody is doing it" and approves? And, the more recent testimony that:(Matthew 7:13)
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
If you are looking for eternal life I would suggest some of you follow General Pace, he can show you where (Jesus) the narrow gate is.

When you shine the light of truth on any situation expect the yelling and gnashing of the those who practice evil and call it moral. General Pace has told a truth that is ancient as man. It is a natural truth being fought against by lies. The bigger the lie exposed, the louder the wailing by those practicing it.

Semper Fi

I agree with the General 100%. I also have had no use for Warner since he made the statement that Ollie North was unfit to serve in the Senate, years ago.

Truth is not a matter decided by vote. One man armed with the truth will, when the ballots are counted (by God) prevail over a world full of those adhering to a lie. Did you all learn nothing from the story of Noah, the ark and the flood? Just because "practically everybody" says it (homosexual acts)are not immoral doesn't mean that "PRACTICALLY EVERYBODY" won't find themselves severed from God, heaven and eternal life. Did the more recent story of Soddom and Gomorrah not refresh your perception and remind you that evil things don't become okay because "everybody is doing it" and approves? And, the more recent testimony that:(Matthew 7:13)
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
If you are looking for eternal life I would suggest some of you follow General Pace, he can show you where (Jesus) the narrow gate is.

only 3 of the 10 commandments are actually laws.
suck it, bible belchers.

If there is any apologizing that needs to be done, it's by homosexual advocates who have drawn millions of young people, including soldiers into a destructive, immoral and unhealthy lifestyle.

The homosexual community has sold the public their licentious lifestyle in the name of tolerance and freedom when they should be seeking to be freed from it. Ask the person dying from HIV if it was worth having hundreds of partners or if some of the millions who are enslaved to it would like to be free of it. We will find that the Bible warns against homosexuality not only because of the coming judgment, but that God wants people to be free from their bondage of sin through the gospel of Christ. Legitimizing homosexuality and trying to condone it as being natural does harm to the person trying to be free from it and the society that should not be tolerating it.

Our organization, Biblical Family Advocates also agrees with the General's statement that homosexuality is like adultery as well and applauds his candor to put his country's safety above being popular.

I believe that any sexual relationship outside of a heterosexual marriage is a form of adultery, just as those who practice sex outside of marriage with those of the opposite sex. Even Jesus Christ condemned all unlawful sexual relations. There is not one condoned homosexual relationship in the entire Bible. Even though I can commend every soldier for putting their lives on the line for our country, they should put the effectiveness of their unit over their personal desires.

One is that the bible is true and all of its teachings. Thus if you follow the teachings of the bible your conclusions are very plain. Homosexuality is immoral.

So is joining the army and killing people.

This is not in response to the article but to some postings.

Would some of you bible thumpers read other books besides the council of Nicea's version of what the oppressive Roman empire thought were righteous ways for individuals in a culture to behave?

And give human kind a little bit more credit...read The Kruetzer Sonata by Leo Tolstoy...Jesus said to do it.

btw...C.Morris, you rock. I loved your rhetorical questions.

"What war would Jesus love?"

As a former US Marine who served in operation Iraqi Freedom in the infantry (0351 SMAW Gunner)... put my life on the line for a country that i LOVE... had fellow brothers that died in the line of duty... and who is gay... I sharply resent the comments of General Pace. Even though I wasn't "out" during my time of duty, hearing those types of comments is extremely saddening. So what I'm gay? I wasn't sitting around everyday thinking about how I could have sex with a fellow Marine... I was thinking how I could become better at my job, motivate my fellow marines, and liberate a nation who was subjugated by a nasty tryant... in hopes that they could someday live in a nation free of intolerance and bigotry... something that General Pace obviously doesn't regard as much.

Open your eyes America... There are plenty of homosexual people in the military who love their nation and its freedoms just as much as you. I'm one of them.

Thank God, if I'm still allowed to say that word, for men like the good General. There has been so much said that I doubt that I can add very much to it, but what it boils down to is this: "you ain't seen nuthin' yet" if and when the wondrous Democrats have their way. Maybe we'll end up as liberal as our great and glorious (ha!) Europe has. America has seen it's better days. Homosexuality has always been the downfall of many previously strong nations. What we have is a battle for truth. Is there absolute truth? Yes, my postmodern hell-bound gay friends. If you have absolute truth, then you know that there is right and wrong. There is is a way that leads to life and a way that leads to death. You can laud homosexual practice all you want to, but you can't vote on morality. Morality has to have an absolute truth and that absolute Truth is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. It's the Truth that was crucified for tlhe aboominable as well as the righteous. I saw a bumper sticker that pretty well expresses it: He's Coming Back, and Boy,is He Mad! Yep. And one of the things that He's going to be "mad about" is the rejection of Truth. We're on a downward slide that only God can halt. When the AIDS epidemic sweeps America as it has in Africa, who is going to stand up and laud the merits of homosexuality? Get real, people. Homosexuality is noi only an abomination, but is immoral and flithy. God didn't create Adam and Steve and all of the left-wing hype to get their votes will never change that fact!

We need more leaders like Gen Pace that are willing to speak the truth!!The bible says that in the last days "Perilous times" will come, we are obviously living in the last days.

The truth is that the gay lifestyle is not just immoral, but is a SIN in God's eyes. You cannot be gay and a Christian, just as you cannot be a drunk and a Christian. The bible says that they would change the truth of God into a lie, which is happening before our very eyes.

It is obvious that the gay crowd is working hard to silence the Christian. A sinner does not want to hear the truth, as it reminds them of their sin. Every time a Christian speaks the truth anymore it is labeled "hate", but in reality it is just the gay's attempt to silence the truth.

The truth is the truth! Just because you choose not to believe it, does not change a thing. God does not hate the sinner, just the sin. The real Christian does not hate the gay person, just the sinful lifestyle that they live in.

Fight it all you want , but you will never change God's mind about! One day soon every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess before Almighty God!!!

Pace should be allowed freedom of speech,Warner should be fired from his position,Homosexuality is Immoral, and a Mental illness,it should have never been taken out of the DSM back in 1973.it needs to be researched and a treatment prescribed just like any other Mental illness.

WARNER IS JUST ANOTHER GUTLES POLITICIAN WILLING TO SUCK UP TO ANY GROUP FOR A VOTE.

TO BAD HE DOES NOT REMEMBER THE BOOK OF GENESIS AND THE EVENTS OF SODOM AND GOMORRAH.

Whoever wrote that "All morality comes from God" is, technically, incorrect. Strictly speaking, morality comes from the Holy Ghost, who lives in the Second Room of the Vesicule Hall of Heaven. He writes up the morals and then passes them along to the son, Jesus, whose earthly form was a man but --you might be surprised to know-- exists mostly as a female in the Vesicule Hall. Then the Father gives the morality His stamp of approval (the way father's should, they are the "head of the household").

This is not conjecture. This is Holy Deity Law whencecometh the Rules of Moral Code that we all must live by or risk Moral Eternal Legal Damnation. God Bless Peter Pace.

Now we have a US Senator claiming that homosexuality is not immoral. Well it certainly isn't normal behavior, if it was the standard or normal behavior the human race would no longer exist. General Pace was wrong to back down from his comments. He was 100% correct.

GENERAL PACE- I SALUTE YOU FOR TAKING A STAND AGAINST THE EVIL THAT IS IN OUR SOCIETY.

I GUESS EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO EXPRESS THEIR OPINIONS EXCEPT CONSERVATIVES.

HMMMMMM!!!!! WHAT COUNTRY DO WE LIVE IN? NAZI GERMANY, STALIN'S RUSSIA, MAO'S CHINA, POL POT'S CAMBODIA, SUDAN, IRAN???

THINK ABOUT THAT LIBERALS AND GAY ADVOCATES. YOU WOULD BE THE FIRST TO GOI UNDER THESE REGIMES.

I guess you God fearing Republicans are going to have a tough time going to the Polls if RUDY Giuliani is your nominee. He has broken almost every rule in the Bible that you beleive in and he still is the front runner for the nomination.
I guess winning is more important than your principles

Bravo!! Bravo!! Bravo!! I completely agree with the chief Mr. Pace. Homosexuality is a Biblical sin and should be viewed as such. Perverted and wrong.
Those in favor of this sin being moral and legal I would guess are either praticioners or morally bankrupt.
God's judgement will be sure just as in Sodom and Gomorrah. Where do they think the word Sodomy came from anyway!!!

Steven Joseph Rotolo

These immoral actions don't just offend General Pace's sensibilities. They offend 99% of the military. Gays in the military in any combative role are in serious danger of being harmed or killed by their peers.

This guy's duty and job is to uphold the law. Irrespective of his personal beliefs. Someone in his position is bright enough to keep quiet on his personal beliefs, as anything he says, while on-duty, in his uniform and speaking to a national forum will be construed as his "military" position.
Maybe the general should take a page from the "don't ask, don't tell" playbook and next time "don't tell."

Who do these sodomites think they are to criticize this man? They matter to whom because???

They're in no position to criticize anyone. The only position they know is bent over or on their knees.

Filthy perverts.

Who would Jesus bomb?

Who knows? Who cares?

But I'll tell you what, I'd me MORE than glad to provide our Lord superb terminal guidance on to the target! "Almighty, this is Roadrunner-" If you want, I can even teach you. Pretty simple. Talk to the guy in the plane and tell him where you want him to drop his ordnance.

Air2Mud!!!!

You are pretty sanctimonious. When I think of you I throw up a little...I have more respect for the guys who were trying to blow me up and shoot me not too long ago than I do you and your ilk.

Boy, talk about a firestorm. Ok, its pretty much black and white here, no shades of gray. You can try to twist words ANY way you want - the Bible is clear. Homosexuals will NOT inherit the Kingdom of God... Period. Why? Because God hates them? No, he hates the SIN. Yes, Homosexuality is a SIN. You can say you are a Christian, but you cant be a Christian and gay AND NOT be repentant (turning AWAY) from your sin. Otherwise you delude yourself. BUT, dont get me wrong, its the same for any other sin you continue to live with and say its ok.... Be afraid, be VERY afraid.

I support General Pace and I will pray for him, AND I will pray that Gays who say they are Christians eye's are opened to the fearful truth.

You cant accept SOME of the Bible without accepting ALL of it, sorry, doesnt work that way. But, in the end, Jesus really does love you..... just NOT your sin.

I am very disappointed at Senator Warner. I have no idea what is happening to some of the Republican Politicians in Washington DC. This is way they are losing the elections because they are abandoning the moral right. Gen Pace is correct and I support him complexly he is a man of honor and moral fiber. Most of us share his view and convictions on this manner. “Don’t ask Don’t Tell” is the correct policy. Those of us who have moral convictions have been attack and attacked into allowing a small fringe of society to dictate to us what morality is. If this is to continue then anything, no matter how revolting or harmful, can be accepted as moral behavior as long as it is a personal choice. I have always been brought up to respect personal choice but also to judge it and be to be judged for my actions. Men of conviction like Gen Pace scare those who have none.

Sounds like our friend Sen. John Warner (R-Va.), is going to be coming out soon. Go Log Cabin Republicans! Give me an "L", give me on "O", give me a "G",...

...I am firmly gay, no pun intended. However, Jesus preached tolerance--not idiocy, love--not submission. Jesus would not from my readings through up his arms and said "Oh you wicked, take our food, children and women and we shall lay down before you to be slaughtered." Sorry. Don't see it happening.

Sen Warner(Mr. Elizabeth Taylor) is an idiot, he wouldnt know something is immoral if it smacked him up beside the head.

GEN Pace is a man of character. His views reflect the views of devout Christians, Jews and Muslims. All three of these religions condem homosexuality as immoral. While the behavior is legal, as is gambling and pornography, no one can possibly say it is moral.

Voters of Virginia it is time to get rid of Senator Warner. He has crossed the line with his comment that homosexuality is not immoral. Warner out!!!

THERE IS NOTHING IMMORAL ABOUT TWO PEOPLE WHO LOVE EACH OTHER DIVING HEAD FIRST INTO SEXUAL PERVERSION. I CREATED SEXUAL PERVERSION. 50 YEARS FROM NOW I PROMISE YOU ALL THAT PEDOPHILIA, BESTIALITY, AND MANY OTHER FORMS OF SEXUAL PERVERSIONS WILL BE WIDELY EXCEPTED ACROSS THE WORLD SO LONG AS THERE IS CONSENT. IN THE FUTURE NOTHING WILL SHOCK YOU....SO JUST RELAX AMERICA AND ENJOY THIS PRECIOUS GIFT I HAVE GIVEN YOU ALL TO ENJOY. IT DOESN'T BOTHER ME IN THE LEAST THAT YOU HOMOS GIVE GOD CREDIT FOR BEING BORN GAY EVEN THOUGH I AM THE ONE WHO MADE YOU THAT WAY.

UNTIL WE MEET.....

General Pace is a man of high moral fiber and is to be commended. Homosexuality is a vice and should not be encouraged or condoned by the military leadership as well as any other vice. When a person becomes so over indulgent in deviant behavior to the point that it defines who he is it is truly an illness.

There's a time and place for everything.There is no place in the military for the homsexual lifestyle...maybe it fits real well in Hollywood but it just doesn't fit the military model.Gen Pace is right in stating that it is immoral because just thinking about the sexual practices that occur in a homosexual act would cause any level headed person to think that this can't be normal? Homosexuality is an abnormal deviant behavior which afflicts a small amount of the population. I'm constantly being bombarded by media types who desire us to look as homosexuality as mainstream and acceptable and I just can't agree with that. My upbringing, education and spiritual beliefs are not in alignment with advocating homsexuality in the military or anyplace else. Maybe I've been out of the service too long, but I simply can't imagine homosexuals being a apart of close knit teams who have to rely on thier buddies when the bullets start flying.
John Warner has about as much command of this issue as congress has over balancing the budget. He is a tired old windbag whose time has clearly passed him by. The amount of power that his position commands far exceeds his average intellect. He should do the U.S. a favor and just sit down and shut up.

The English poet Alexander Pope said it best when he wrote:

"Sin is a vice of so frightfull a mean,
as to be hated, needs but to be seen.
But seen to oft, familiar with her face,
we first endure, then pity then embrace."

The Camel has finally got into the tent.

Well said John Paul, Phil Sammon, Fred Thomas, and Joe Shane.
I am 200% behind General Pace!
Quincy - understand this . . .it is not the PEOPLE (serving their country) that are being rejected. It is THEIR BEHAVIOR that is being rejected.
In reference to the artilce above: As for the fear of future U.S. troop shortages, allow the homosexuals to "come out", and continue to let Congress and the media voice their lack of support for our troops and see how quickly the shortages come to reality!
As for John Warner, I am embarrassed he represents my state.
It is time for him to retire . . .
no vote from me!!

Why do you condemn Pace for having an opinion? You don’t have to accept his opinion any more than I accept yours. According to Christian teachings homosexual acts, not the homosexual, are immoral. Look it up in your Bible.

Oh, you don’t believe in God.

Well, He believes in you.

Have a good day……….

Gay's will always be against people like Pace and straight people will be for people like Pace most of the time. However I believe when two men have sex together it is sick no matter how they do it. That is my personal opinion and I don't care if the gay community likes it or not.

Three cheers for General Pace! Finally someone who is not cowed into silence by the politically correct atmosphere of this country. Over 80% of America is Christian and the Bible says homosexuality is a no-no. We need more leaders like General Pace. Not to punish homosexuals, but who have a strong enough sense of self to speak their minds. It's refreshing.

To C. Morris,

Gays had a special protected place in society, the closet. It’s time for them to seek that protection again.

Do you think Jesus likes our military in particular or any in general?

Absolutely, Jesus loves the US military and has a special affinity for Marines.

What war would Jesus love?

Any war against Muslims, godless communist and gays.

Who would Jesus kill?

No one, he leaves that to the Marines.

Was Jesus a philosopher?

No, he was the son of God.

Hurray for the General!!! And wet noodle lashes for the thought police morons who think they can dicatate to people's what their conscience should be.
Cheers from Canada.
Tony

I am continuously astonished by the Senator from my state, Mr. Warner. No man in Republican Party history knows how to steal defeat from the jaws of victory like this man. He has been on the wrong side of so many issues Virginians care about. The only reason he continues to get re-elected is because the Dems always throw some tree-hugger up against him. If he ever faces a challenge from a "blue dog" he's done.

Frankly, I'm gonna vote for the tree-hugger next election. At least then we'll know what we're getting, and we will have a chance at getting a real conservative in that office in 2014. Man that's a long ways away. Maybe I should just move.

Pace is right. Homosexuality IS immoral. It IS an abomination. It IS wrong. It IS sin. These statements are true for one reason and one reason only - becasue God says so. No matter what others say, the truth does not change. The "enlightened" people who declare that God is incorrect, or that the rest of us just don't get it or don't understand - they will all be shown to be liars. God does not lie. God does not change. God says that homosexuality is a sin. Therefore - it is a sin.

It is a darn shame that Joint Chief of Staff Pace, squrimed out of what is Truth, to save his hide and military pension. One must count the cost, if you are to step up to the plate and defend your beliefs.

Ask most men in the military if they would feel comfortable being in the shower along side a man
who engages in "perverted sexual acts!!"
I think you know the answer. I sure as "heaven" would NOT!

As for those who base America as a secular nation,that is tommy rot to coin a phrase.
Our service men and women die, fight, honor a nation that was formed with values and a core of ethics.All "these anti-religious bigots", are totally ignorant of the founding principals of our nation. To proclaim homosexuality as a freedom,and compareing it to an ethnicity is
repugnant. And also, it is a blatent propaganda tactic of the radical sexual diveant society spreading their indoctranation of their livestyles, which has been accepted by the post modern humanism eliet, that has control in this country.

As an Othodox Jewish man who along with my fellow
brethren are at our wit's end, have this repudation of nature shoved in our faces every day, through the taliban media, the educational system, and every outlet that caters to the $$$
of the lambada organizations. It is anti-Torah,anti-decent, anti most of all a stench in the nostrals of G-d.

If homosexuals want to be in the military and I personally can not find a ligitmate reason why men who desire men; OR women who desire women; are claiming that they are joining to defend America and it's core values.
RUBBISH!

The sad fact that we are even engaged in such a "Controversy" shows how far our society has slipped into the clutches of hell. The stinch that the U.S. must be in the nostrils of the Lord. According to Bible prophecy; America is clearly found in the Scriptures, (The land of double rebellion, the great hammer of the whole earth, She hath been a golden cup in the hand of the Lord, She has striven against the Lord, She says I am and there is none like me, she says I cannot be defeated, "because you laughed you destroyers of mine heritage", She is a land that sits on many waters, She is a broad land, She is the last of the great nations, She is said to be very proud and arrogant, The other nations have become defiled trying to be like her, She is very rich and lives carelessly, All the nations flow to her, She has a very large Jewish population, She has become fat like a heifer eating grain, She is the trading center of the world, She has transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, and broken the everlasting covenant, as a result she is called the city of confusion,) Ah, there, confusion, Hmmm lets see is Homosexuality wrong or is it O.K. God wasn't confused one bit when He called it an "ABOMINATION", now either He is wrong or all these Homosexuals and Lesbians are??? There is no contest in Heaven, no confusion or misunderstandings, just plain truth. TRUTH something this nation has been lacking for a long time. Do not be ashamed General Pace for speaking TRUTH!

The bible says it wrong. So it's wrong... I believe it, so should everyone else...Read the instructions stupid.....

Right on General Pace,

Folks the king is naked and no matter how you spout that sodomites behavior is not abnormal, nature itself proves you're falicy. General Pace don't back down and let the light of truth be your guide.

Whether one agrees with General Pace or not, the bottom line is that many, if not most, people in the military agree with him. Generally speaking groups such as white southerners, African-American and Latino troops have very strong negative feelings regarding homosexuals. In many cases these are prompted by religious belief. Others simply consider homosexual acts to be against a strict macho code. Another liberal social experiment like allowing gays to serve would be extremely disruptive to the order and discipline within the ranks. Like it or not, these are the folks who keep this country safe and accomplish this task in an extraordinary manner,under difficult circumstances. What they feel is most important regardless of the discriminatory aspects of present policy. When it comes to gays in the military it is not a very good idea.

The only thing that matters is the truth. Whether we believe or recognize the truth, it is still truth. The Bible is the ultimate truth and will remain into eternity. The Bible is clear and states it in several places that homosexuality is abnormal behavior and is an abomination to a Holy God. Thus homosexual behavior is immoral and General Pace is correct.

You may not agree with this, but that is not the point. At some time, all will stand before the Holy God and give an account of their beliefs and actions.

Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father except through me." There is an eternity. There are two places where all humans will spend it: With God in heaven or Without God in the Lake of Fire. Only be accepting what Jesus did for us - sacrificing his life and resurrecting from the dead - can one enter heaven.

I pray that some of you who have never accepted Christ would do so - soon.

Regarding Phil Sammons remarks:

I couldn't have said it better myself. Well put arguement! In today's society, and evidenced by biblical prophesy, what is good will be called bad, and that which is bad will be called good. A general has the guts to be honest, something that most, if not all of the members of the armed services committee have a hard time doing on a daily basis, and state his beliefs, unabashed and unashamed. But as someone stated earlier, you can speak your mind without recourse, so long as it lines up with the "progressive" left winged ideologies. Anything otherwise and you are a bigot, racist, or worse...A Christian.

Maybe Senator Warner should experience a evening of intimate homosexual sex and then he can tell us what is or is not immoral.

Sen. Warner's remarks are truly unfortunate. Gen. Pace was and is correct. Sen. Warner is of the Episcopal denomination. That, perhaps is why he holds this viewpoint. The Episcopal church has recently caved to the gay agenda.

Thanks Gen. Pace for standing up for Scripture and your personal moral values.

What a breath of fresh air: General Pace is clearly a man unafraid of saying the truth. Homosexual acts are unnatural and disordered, and it's time we all stopped pretending otherwise. The military is no place to try and change the rules of nature. I think Warner is finished for his comments.

VIVA Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

General Pace should be commended for enforcing the law. He also should be commended for speaking honestly and for speaking out against immorality.

RELIGION IS UNDER ATTACK

How many years until people who believe homosexuality is wrong can't get a job because they are considered 'bigots'? Gay marriage isn't about marriage. It is about attacking religion. This is a perfect example and so is the Catholic adoption agency in Boston being forced to close because it wouldn't adopt to homosexuals.

And Jesus taught to hate the sin but love the sinner. Do not call evil good and good evil.

General Pace is, of course, right. The simple truth is this: This Culture Is Finished. We are in the last days as our citizenry has become totally debauched. Look at the history books you fools.

You have GOT to be kidding . . . this tired, senile geezer from VA says that homosexuality is NOT immoral? This guy should be impeached and removed from office. it's bad enough this so-called republican has'nt been consistent with conservative votes / values, but this one just cracks me up. John Warner is a total embarassment to Congress. We don't a policy that dictates "don't ask, don't tell. We need people in Congress and the military, like general Pace, who knows the difference between right and wrong. God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve! Homosexuality is not how God designed humanity. It is unnatural, and immoral, and that's all I got to say about that!

Religion is so dumb, and so divisive. Perhaps it's organized religion that is immoral.

People who aren't gay and don't know what it's like to be gay should not be allowed to talk about gay people. Like Bob Dylan said: "Don't criticize what you can't understand."

General Pace is right. Be strong, don't apologize and don't retract your statements.

Semper Fi General Pace. The Bible is God's word. God does not lie and his word is true. Homosexual behavior (SIN) will lead you straight to Hell. Repent and trust in Jesus Christ for your Salvation. He died for all of us on the cross. Salvation is a gift from God, just accept it. Heaven or Hell---it's your choice.

I am a Christian. The Lord told Moses that if a man lies down with another man, as a woman, it is a abomination. As a Christian we can not abide with something God hates. It would be like saying I'm a Christian but I don't agree with a couple of the 10 Commandments. Homosexuality is a psycological disorder and can be treated. General Pace is right and should be lauded for what he said.

The Tribune-

"Comments are not posted immediately. We review them first in an effort to remove foul language, commercial messages, irrelevancies and unfair attacks. Thank you for your patience."

Interesting, my post contained none of the above and was rather tame compared to many here, yet the Tribune choose to deny my right of free expression and censor the posting that I submitted midday yesterday. So typical of the left.

It seems that the age old "conflict" of good and evil is present and healthy! Isn't it funny how history does keep repeating itself...SCIENCE and SCIENTIFIC DATA are the abode of the rational,intelligent,sophisticated, and enlightened, but who would believe a book that's several thousand years old in part, after all, it was written by men. Did the apes that we supposedly evolved from discover and record science? I think not. And then we hear people say that given enough time, say another 100 years, all this dribble about God, Christ, the Bible, and secterian morality will be past. Has this thinking (hoping?)been expressed before? Ah yes, in every century since the Lord was crucified and resurrected. This, in itself, is a humanly irrational, illogical statement. At least in terms of human intelligence. Jesus Christ says that His thoughts are not our thoughts, nor are our ways His way. He came to save us from that. As biblical Christians, we need not denegrate the unbeliever or dazzle them with our "facts", but live before them as Christ commands, pray that God's grace would embrace them, and be good neighbors to all. "And be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear.
To the question at hand, Gen. Pace is correct in his statement concerning homosexuality and Senator Warner has a right to his opinion. However, I would hope that a United States Senator would defend the right of a uniformed officer of Gen. Pace's caliber to express his thoughts on such an important issue. This does not violate any supposed separation of church and state. EVERYONE has a religion. It is NOT, necessarily,what one says they worship,or not worship, nor where they go to worship, but IS what they look to deep within their souls to solve their problems and give meaning to their lives. With many folk...it is themselves.

Good grief. There's a reason why the services don't allow men and women to sleep in the same barracks. When there was coed training, rape charges abounded. So now you want to house gays where exactly?

In any event, homosexuality is immoral. Repeat after me: Homosexuality IS immoral and is in the ranks of pedophilia, adultery, etcetera, and just because you may practice it still will never make it right.

And I will always reserve the right to speak my opinion on that subject.

The sad thing is that we are ALL in the same condition. CHRISTIANS should show love to ALL others regardless of how they respond to us. There are things that the bible condemns. Some are dietary concerns (which God himself changed in the New Testament)and moral laws which god himself affirmed in the New Testament. Regardless, our words do show the condition of our heart and others see the lack of love there, they will not respond to the truth behind the message.

The efficiency and effectiveness of our armed forces is what's important, in fact paramount. Members of the military do not have freedom of movement or choice in who they are placed in close contact with under command. Society as well as the military separates the sexes in basic living requirements out of necessity for performance and to minimize sexual attraction and tension. I am all for General Pace's stance on this subject from strictly a national security issue and his adherence to the established rule, but I also applaud is candid honesty and refusal to compromise his belief. It's not just his belief, God has condemned homosexuality and that's enough for him, and for me.

TYPICAL name-calling LIBERAL response to someone who doesnt share the same views. If you dont agree with these lefties they resort to this childish rant. Which of course takes them out of any serious discussion. Oh and one more thing. WHO CARES what the rest of the world thinks about us!!!

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that homosexuality is unnatural.

All homosexuals (except the transgendered ones) are either honest perverts, or simply repressed heteros, insecure around or angry with the opposite sex. Why do they refuse to look at pschyoanalysis? Anyone can be gay. Every day I make a choice to be heterosexual. Thankfully its not hard for me. Anyone who says it isn't a choice is mistaken. The only thing that isn't a choice is the sexual urge itself, which can be easily perverted to liking an animal or something even more odd. Is someone going to tell me that those people didn't choose to like animals? Are you going to tell me that they were born like that?

Isn't it interesting that the homosexuals in Sodom and Gomorrah accused Lot of the same things that the homosexuals today are accusing us of: intolerance. I think you know what happened: the angels that the men wanted to have sex with, pulled Lot inside the house, led his family out of the city and then destroyed it along with all the people.

A challenge to all homosexuals: show me how it is good. All you can talk about is your "freedom". Freedom to do what is wrong? If it isn't wrong, tell me how its right.

God Bless General Pace and the stand he has taken.

Yes, homosexuality is immoral.

It is a destroyer of lives.

AIDs is the result long term.

If it were not so repugnant why would so many gays still be "in the closet".

Simply because it is repugnant, immoral, filthy and despicable, that is why.

As you go off half cocked and cry out in support of the gays and lesbians, stop and visualize in your mind for a moment what you are supporting. Or maybe, you ought to go rent a porno with gay sex in it and see for yourself, then ask if you can really support such activity. I think not.

Semper Fi General Pace. The Bible is God's word. God does not lie and his word is true. Homosexual behavior (SIN) will lead you straight to Hell. Repent and trust in Jesus Christ for your Salvation. He died for all of us on the cross. Salvation is a gift from God, just accept it. Heaven or Hell---it's your choice.

I have never understood why people who quote the bible only follow the dictates that appeal to them.

The bible is pro-slavery, pro-spousal abuse, and pro-child sacrifice but I have never seen a Christian support these biblical references (at least not in public).

Some people believe the bible is 100% true that we should defend their right to believe as much. Some people believe the bible is 100% fiction and we should defend their rights, too.

America needs to get over their obsession with sexuality and focus on real problems. The war is being lost, the economy is not great, and the environment is in peril. If someone is willing to fight and serve their nation that should be enough.

Dan Hooker, I'm afraid you're wrong. Homosexuality occurs throughout nature. I have a gay brother who is a Marine reserve, and I'll tell you, it pisses me off when people say he's innately "immoral." I don't know if people are born gay or straight, but he tried to change being gay, hated it and himself for years and years, and has finally come to accept it. He's happier now. To me it's like being left-handed -- for years schools tried to force lefties to be righties, and guess what. It didn't work.

General Pace was expressing his personal views and at no time did I hear he was for discrimination. Some of these posts sound like people who have an ax to grind with the military. Give the man a break and stop calling him names. He probaly has one of the 10 toughest jobs in this country.

General Pace has the right to believe in his own moral convictions and express them if he wants!!!

My son was in the Corps afew years back...there was a gay guy in the barracks...he made them uncomfortable looking at them in a sexual way. He also brought "dates" into the barracks which annoyed the straight guys.
the gay guy did quit the Corps, not because of being gay,but because of his agressive gay behavior....
Is it so wrong to be straight and voice your opinion and feelings about homo and hetro,no matter who and what your own life choices are?
Free country? Free choice? You bet...long as you agree with what the government deems politically correct for the "moment"

Who is the moron that said, "just becuase it is wrong for him doesn't mean it is wrong for someone else." Well, let me be the first to say that since I don't feel that killing someone is wrong for me...better keep looking over your shoulder.

If the armed branch of the united states allows open gays rather than their current policy, the state of affairs will change and reasons for joining the service will change as will interactions for all in the comand chain. It will ultimately be a weakness that will lead to our proud armed services being demoralized

That is his opinion! Why do you excoriate an individual who, when asked for their personal opinion, gives it.

His opinion is as valid as anyone else's - it does not necessarily constitute fact.

Joining the military and going to war IS NOT WRONG!!! The Bible plainly teaches that "The Powers that be are ordained of God." and that they are established to hold down or limit the work of evil men. This is why the Bible teaches us to respect those that are in authority, because they are here to prevent evil...not good.

"Hurray for the General!!! And wet noodle lashes for the thought police morons who think they can dicatate to people's what their conscience should be.
Cheers from Canada.
Tony

Posted by: Tony | Mar 14, 2007 7:02:03 AM"

You hit the nail on the head with "thought police". The Liberal "thought police" complain that Christians are "forcing their beliefs" on them when all they are doing is expressing what they believe (actually know) to be true. I think it's just that people living immorally are squirming because they know in their hearts that immoral behavior is wrong and when someone expresses it, it calls attention to their own repressed conscience. Christians are imperfect too, because they tend to focus too much on homosexuality and not on immorality. Adultery and pre-marital sex are just as wrong in God's eyes as homosexuality.

There is a lot of confusion regarding homosexuality here. People are saying it is psychological, and others are saying it is physiological, and a few others are saying there is a gay gene. These things are so far from the truth.

People how have engrossed in homosexual sin are full on possessed by demons and I have known testimonies of people who "were" homosexual and unable to get out of the lifestyle, and most were adamant that it was okay and they could live a gay lifestyle and be a Christian.

Once the demon was cast out of these people they changed almost immediately. They no longer had any desire for gay sex, and saw clearly for the first time in years that it is sin and it is wrong. That is the real problem, these people are so engrossed in their sin that demons now possess them. Once the demons are gone they can be free, otherwise most will never be free of it.

I think to solve the homosexuality problem in this country and the world, we need to love the sinner and hate the demon and cast it out just like Jesus did when he walked the earth.

As for you clowns that say "judge not lest you be judged" and other comments like "thou shall not murder". Please stop taking those scriptures out of context and repeating what you hear on TV. Go get a Bible and actually read it in context and learn that Jesus is very much for the war. Read the book of Revelation and you will discover that one day Jesus will come back to the Earth and destroy those who are opposed to Him and His Word. You can laugh and say it is fantasy, but on that day when you are condemned the words you read here will ring in your ears and you will be judged by God by your own words.

Wake up people it is later than you think and time is running out.

Since when did Warner become the Senate's theologian. Stick to your beliefs Gen Pace.

The source of the definition for immorality or morality must come from a supreme authority. It’s not a matter of personal opinion or societal\cultural acceptance. People have always sought to justify their immorality by simply saying that we don't define this or that behavior as immoral anymore. The General is right the truth is the truth and no one can alter that. The supreme authority has spoken and made His definitions clear the General understands this chain of command Acts:5-29.

Of course its immoral. Homosexuality is also un-natural and perverse. I sick of the gays trying to force the rest of us to accept their perversion. I will not and Pace should not. If you want to be a pervert and be vocal about it then be prepared to accept condemnation.

To TK

>to f.kach:

subjective morality? Great, so a rapist thinks it's moral then it's OK. No standards at all. Whatever is pleasing to you then it is just grand. What a sick view of the world.

The man is a four-star general in the Marine Corps. He has risen to the top position in the U.S. military during a period of grave national crisis and is responsible for the well-being, morale, training, and equipping of the nation's military services. And since when can a man - when specifically asked - not be allowed to state his views, especially when what he is saying is in support of official policy.

People who aren't gay and don't know what it's like to be gay should not be allowed to talk about gay people. Like Bob Dylan said: "Don't criticize what you can't understand."

Posted by: Josh | Mar 14, 2007 7:51:23 AM

This is crazy-talk. Does this mean that people who have never murdered someone have no right to say that murder is wrong???? Do I have to go out and rob a bank before I can sit on a jury and judge a thief??

There has never been a better time to get out of the military. Every senior enlisted member I know is getting out as soon as they can. We all see the same thing; lack of leadership at the top.

General Pace is right on target regarding the morality of homosexual behavior.

John Warner may think otherwise, however, the word of God defines moral behavior not John Warner's opinion.

Look at Hitler's gay brigade (Storm Troopers) if you want to see what will become of our military if the John Warner's get their way.

Jeff C. said,

"Did this hit on some kind of Christian activist search engine or what?"

Maybe those of you should who don't subscribe to Christianity should realize that yes, there ARE a lot of Christians still alive and well in the USA and we are sick and tired of being thought of as doormats and push-overs to homosexuals and athiests. We have a moral compass that is described in great detail by the Word of God that the vast majority of us take very seriously. Thus, WE believe wholeheartedly that you are wrong, Jews believe wholeheartedly that you are wrong, and Muslims believe wholeheartedly that you are wrong.

Wow, that's a lot of people, isn't it?

Maybe those of you who don't believe or want to deal with the "inconvenience" of God should sit down and keep your opinions to YOUR self for awhile and see how much better life in the USA goes. The world in general is in a nasty amount of chaos, and that's because the monotheists of this world have been utterly browbeaten by so-called "progressives", and the propagandist psychobabble that has been meticulously contrived and thrust down the throats of Americans since the 1970's.

I pray soon that there will come a day where there's a lot less of rallys that have banners bearing rainbows and triangles and the chanting of "We're here, we're queer", and more of rallys that have banners bearing the Cross and the singing of "Onward Christian Soldier" in order to turn things around for our country and the world.

And if you think I'm wrong for speaking my mind and putting this on a public forum, well-I just hate that for you.

Dan Hooker, I'm afraid you're wrong. Homosexuality occurs throughout nature. I have a gay brother who is a Marine reserve, and I'll tell you, it pisses me off when people say he's innately "immoral." I don't know if people are born gay or straight, but he tried to change being gay, hated it and himself for years and years, and has finally come to accept it. He's happier now. To me it's like being left-handed -- for years schools tried to force lefties to be righties, and guess what. It didn't work.
Posted by: Ian | Mar 14, 2007 8:11:55 AM

Ian,

Dude your bother needs deliverance. This thing is a stronghold from satan himself. The only way one can get free of this gross sin after they have seared their conscious is to have the demons cast out. God loves your brother but he hates his sin. And you can get help for him. Take him to a charasmatic church that is skilled in deliverance and he can be set free. Otherwise, if he chooses to reject that, God will have to reject him as well. It is sad but true.

Gen. Pace has a backbone. Warner has none/If homesexuality is normative, why aren't we all that way?

If America is attacked in anyway from outside, it is because of the existing horrible sins inside of America, homosexuality, crime, sexual immorality, corruption and others.
General Pace is right and I have a word for him:
CONGRATULATION!
These people need to turn their life to Christ and they will be saved and freed from the power of the sin.
America doesn’t need a "SIN LADY PRESIDENT" or a "SIN SENATOR" of so and so state, America needs people like general Pace to free America of sin from inside and to fight the terrorists were ever they are.
If America will be destroyed, it will not be destroyed by terrorists, but by the inside America sins.
Wake up America, before is too late and go Back to the Bible.

All I have to say is that this blog is FULL OF HOMOPHOBES!!!! I suspect there is ALOT of sexual frustration on this blog. God loves everybody period. That is MY story and I am sticking to it. What goes on between two consenting adults should stay that way. You people need to get a life and lose all the hate. Straight and Gay will always be around. Learn to live together!!!!

BEEMER WROTE "The bible is pro-slavery, pro-spousal abuse, and pro-child sacrifice but I have never seen a Christian support these biblical references (at least not in public)."

Could you kindly provide the scriptural refrences to support this.

As a conservative Republican, I am very disappointed in the comments made by Sen. John Warner (R-VA). As a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee (regardless of political party), it is his duty to uphold the values of the Armed Forces. A Strong Christian-Judaeo belief is what America was founded on and is the backbone of this Country. Perhaps the Senator no longer possesses the backbone necessary to fulfill his job duties. You are not there to make friends. This is not a popularity contest.

Way to go General Pace! At long last someone stands up and says the right thing (and what everyone else is thinking) even though it's politically incorrect. There are moral absolutes and no amount of personal opinion can change that. If these girlie men want some respect then they should stand up for principle, and quit floating in the breeze with every new political opinion of the day! http://faciamus.blogspot.com

This is the song that the devil is singing to America right now:

Oh, my job keeps getting easier, as time keeps slipping away,
I can imitate your brightest light and make your night look just like day,
I put some truth in every lie, to tickle itching ears,
You know I'm drawing people just like flies, cause they like what they hear,

I'm gaining power by the hour, they're falling by the score,
You know, it's getting very simple now since no one believes in me anymore.
Oh, heaven's just a state of mind, my books read on your shelf,
And have you heard that God is dead, I made that one up myself,

They dabble in magic spells, the get their fortunes read,
You know they heard the truth, but turned away and followed me instead,
I used to have to sneak around, but now they just open their doors,
You know, no ones watching for my tricks because no one believes in me anymore.

Everyone likes a winner, with my help, you're guaranteed to win,
And hey man, you're ain't no sinner, you've got the truth within,
And as your life slips by you believe the lie that you did it on your own,
But don't worry, I'll be there to help you share our dark, eternal home.

Oh, my job keeps getting easier, as day slips into day,
The magazines, the newspapers, print every word I say,
This world is just my spinning top, it's all like childs-play,
You know, I dream that it will never stop, but I know it's not that way,

Still my work goes on and on, always stronger than before,
I'm gonna make it dark before the dawn since no one believes in me anymore,
Well now I used to have to sneak around, but now they just open their doors,
You know, no one watches for my tricks since no one believes in me anymore,

Well I'm gaining power by the hour, they're falling by the score,
You know, it's getting very easy now since no one believes in me anymore.
No one believes in me anymore, no one believe in me anymore.

This is crazy-talk. Does this mean that people who have never murdered someone have no right to say that murder is wrong???? Do I have to go out and rob a bank before I can sit on a jury and judge a thief??

YOU JUST ADMITTED THAT YOU ARE JUDGING!!!!
Remember: "Judge not lest ye be judged".

General Pace is a moral and upright man and a credit to the USMC and the United States of America. He owes no one an apology for speaking the truth.
Senator Warner, like the majority of senators and congresspersons, owe the whole nation an apology for their disregard of the Constitution and their resulting malfeasance of office. The folks who gave us hate crimes laws,(laws that judge the thought behind the crime instead of the crime, a favored ploy of totalitarian regimes and as such have no place in a "free" country), and shirk their duty to protect and defend the Constitution and our nation should thank God for men like General Pace.
It occurs to me that the air in Washington, DC must be causing brain problems for our "Elected" representatives.

The hullabaloo over Gen Pace's comments is all nonsense. His problem (Pace's) is that he failed to stick with the military's policy on gays as defined under the UCMJ and instead wandered into the wilderness of personal morality.

I served 23 years in the Navy and even before Clinton's "Don't ask, don't tell" policy was formalized in '93, gays were serving faithfully in the military. And the only time I ever saw the Navy take action to discharge a gay person was for behavior that was so egregious it simply could not be tolerated because it was a detriment to combat readiness. Conversely, those who were assumed to be gay by virtue of rumor or what was considered to be sterotypical behavior and who did their jobs and were a proven asset to the command progressed rapidly through the ranks.

What I'm trying to say is that the policy that Clinton formalized was the unstated policy from time immemorial. Do your job, leave your sexual proclivities at the gate, and you'll do well. Arrive at your new command and announce on the quarterdeck that you're gay and you're looking for a group of sailors for bath house orgies in the ship's showers on weekends and you're in for the hassel of your life.

Why do so many of you hate gay people? Why is homosexuality so frightening? The only type of behavior that should be prohibited is that which is a real and tangible danger to society. Those of you praising Gen. Pace for his comment have yet to demonstrate why homosexuality is immoral and how, if homosexuals were able to serve openly, they might undermine the military.

Oh, and for those radicals quoting the Bible, consider this: only fanatics use religious texts to explain and justify their actions. Al-Qaeda is oft to quote the Koran to justify the killing of Americans, Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church quote the Bible when they disrupt funerals, like those of MAtthew Shepard and dead soldiers.

Those of you that look to elected officials as leaders are sadly misinformed about their duties and resposibilities. Thes miscreants are elected to represent the will of those that elected them. Their job is to act as though they are us. I do not care what any official thiks is good for me/us. He doesn't pay my bills, feed me, send me to shool, take care of my kids, etc. He has no right to attempt to dictate to his constituents anything. We are to dictate to him our wants and desires and he is charged with the duty to attempt to satisfy those that elected him. In our repulblican form of government, majority rules. The officials shold find out what the majority of us want and get it implemented. The minoritya don't have to like it, just learn to live with it. Istead however, the minority view is forced upon the majority and we are told we must learn to live with it. How much sicker can politics get?

It seems that the age old "conflict" of good and evil is present and healthy! Isn't it funny how history does keep repeating itself...SCIENCE and SCIENTIFIC DATA are the abode of the rational,intelligent,sophisticated, and enlightened, but who would believe a book that's several thousand years old in part, after all, it was written by men. Did the apes that we supposedly evolved from discover and record science? I think not. And then we hear people say that given enough time, say another 100 years, all this dribble about God, Christ, the Bible, and secterian morality will be past. Has this thinking (hoping?)been expressed before? Ah yes, in every century since the Lord was crucified and resurrected. This, in itself, is a humanly irrational, illogical statement. At least in terms of human intelligence. Jesus Christ says that His thoughts are not our thoughts, nor are our ways His way. He came to save us from that. As biblical Christians, we need not denegrate the unbeliever or dazzle them with our "facts", but live before them as Christ commands, pray that God's grace would embrace them, and be good neighbors to all. "And be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear.
To the question at hand, Gen. Pace is correct in his statement concerning homosexuality and Senator Warner has a right to his opinion. However, I would hope that a United States Senator would defend the right of a uniformed officer of Gen. Pace's caliber to express his thoughts on such an important issue. This does not violate any supposed separation of church and state. EVERYONE has a religion. It is NOT, necessarily,what one says they worship,or not worship, nor where they go to worship, but IS what they look to deep within their souls to solve their problems and give meaning to their lives. With many folk...it is themselves.

When the Bible becomes the law of the land, then we can talk about its prescriptions for society. It's not. If it was, adultery, disrespecting one's parents, not going to church on Sunday, and desiring things other people possess would all be felonies. If any of you religious morons want to live in that kind of society, feel free, but do it somewhere else. I believe there are lots of Muslim countries whose morals you'd find perfectly consonant with your own, you narrow-minded hypocrities.

opionions change everyday but the Word of God never changes for instance 2 peter 2:6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemed them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly, and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked...know matter how we feel or think someday we will all stand in front of God. Thank you and God Bless Jim

General Pace has the RIGHT to say what he believes and over half of America agrees with him. Homosexuality is physically and naturally wrong. It is immoral.

"If homesexuality is normative, why aren't we all that way?"

No one said it was normative, genius, but that doesn't mean that it's morally deviant. Left-handedness isn't normative; neither are green eyes, red hair, human height significantly above 6 feet or less than 5 feet tall, or any number of other personal, inborn characteristics. I imagine your universe is pretty dull if only those actions, attitudes, and traits shared by the majority are considered acceptable. The narrow-mindedness of people never ceases to amaze me...

Dogs even know better. For a man to lie down with another man is very sick and deminted.
Way to go General Pace.

It takes courage to stand up for what is right. Everybody knows that homosexuality is a abomination. Sure, we tolerate gays, but that doesn't mean we have to like to accept their conduct.

General Pace mearly stated his personal views on the subject. Gays and their sympathetic cohorts need to understand that a good percentage, if not the majority of the population will never accept the gay lifestyle as courageous, God-like, moral and righteous. It is no more righteous than that that of a womanizer, a women who seduces men, a fornicator or a promiscuous person.

It seems to me that Gays have this hope that they will change the hearts and minds of the majority of people. But so long as their is a Bible, and so long as their is a God, this will never happen.

I do think peopele have the right to their opinions but anyone how uses the bible for their moral convictions must be a horrible person. The bible teaches hate, slavery, objectification of women, murder, and rape (the list goes on). People need to understand we do not get any of our morals from the Bible in modern times. It is likely that there is no God. It truly upsets me that there is so much hatred and pain in this world based upon nonsense such a religion. Every perosn I have ever met who claims to be religious knows nothing about their religous history or what it actually stands for. Please everyone get with it, love fellow humanbeings who are here and now and actually exsist not phoney gods.

I am just shocked reading some of the comments posted. I am a happily married Christian man. My wife is a retired marine (20 years). For anyone in here to think that these troops don't have a percentage of homosexuals currently serving is ludicrous. In light of that, how many have been charged with solicitation of a fellow soldier? Just something to think about. I take offense to people assuming that gays will automatically be attracted to every male walking the same as I would if people assume every man is attracted to every female. We all have our individual tastes and to assume that gays just want every man shows a great deal of insecurity to me.

If you want to debate from a biblical perspective then ok. In that case I am divorcing my wife tomorrow. She is unable to have children so I'll just get rid of her since she can't help propogate the earth. So now my thought is that NOONE who cannot have kids should be allowed to marry. That is in line with the argument right?

So since the issue with the gays is how the heterosexual men will feel, would a gay division work for everyone? They'd be allowed to fight and serve their country but not have to "scare" the straight guys. Still a problem?

Evidently Senator Warner disagrees with God. All he has to do is open his Bible (if he has one) and read Romans 1:26-32, and especially verse 27 which indicates that God deems homosexuality immoral. In the Old Testament God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because of their sodomy. I stand by General Pace as he is evidentally a godly man.

warner is a dried up old fool! homosexual rape is the predatory nature of these creatures! most men will tell you about how aggresive these homosexuals predators really are! they hunt children like i hunt rabbits and warner thinks this is O.K.?! what a complete fool this arthritic,mindless heathen is!a mandatory age of retirement NEEDS to be set up in congress to retire these ancient decrepit gadflies!!!SOON!!!!

Bottom line is homosexuality is unatural, it goes against the laws of nature. If man were to change from heterosexual beings to homosexual beings we would cease to exsist. This fact alone makes it immoral, just as suicide and murder are immoral. The day man accepts homosexuality as normal or moral behavior is the begining of mans extinction.

If anyone says homosexual behavior is acceptable, then you have to say pedophilia and beastiality is as well. Would anyone on the left condone that behavior? My guess is that they someday will.

I agree with Gen. Pace. There is absolutely no need to apologize. He is entitled to and has a right to his opinion (see Art. I., U.S. Constitution). It is a fact homosexuality is unnatural (my opinion). Those who disagree and indulge in these acts are brazenly front and center and defend sexual deviation and proud of it (their opinion). We, on the other hand, deserve the same consideration. In this age of "diversity" opposing P.O.V. are just as valid as theirs.

Homophobia stems from the notion that because homosexuality is a choice (which it is not - sexual orientation is innate) that some of you might be tempted to jump in the sack with your commanding officer.

Gen. Pace is a bigot and a homophobe. He should resign his post, move to San Francisco, become a drag queen.

"Judge not lest ye be judge" refers to judging where they are going-Heaven or hell. You have a duty to admonish a sinner to help them get back on track. Remember all of us are souls of God. God would want us to help by explaining why it is wrong to be homosexual-not just letting them "fall." This debate is becoming worse each year. Let's face it-it used to be gays wanted to be left alone. The problem now is they can not just be left alone. They expect that other people should believe their way. They throw it in your face...They now want marriage, health care, and to "indoctrinate" our schools/children that it is okay. If a person wants to be gay then they need to accept not everybody will agree with this view. There is nothing wrong with that. As far as the debate of color and sexuallity-that is crazy...we discriminated on the basis of color-which is wrong...we have a right to say man was not made to go with man and woman was not made to go with woman....It shows in how we are made-mind, body and soul.
This is a very easy concept-people!

'I would hope that a United States Senator would defend the right of a uniformed officer of Gen. Pace's caliber to express his thoughts on such an important issue. "

Yeah, because the head of the Joint Chiefs of Staff certainly has no forum for expressing his views...jeez can you shed any more inappropriate tears? No one is trying to stop Pace from speaking his mind, and no one is restricting his access to the media to do so. Unfortunately, the gay service members he criticizes don't have that same luxury. If they speak out, they get a dishonorable discharge. Hell, if a straight service member says something the brass dislikes, he or she is subject to discipline. So enough of the glycerine tears for poor, poor General Pace, who has any national or international forum he chooses to espouse his views. If he decides to make stupid remarks, other people have every right to criticize him for doing so. Or do you think that civilians should be forbidden from criticizing the military too, Herr Streicher?

gays do not think homosexual acts are immoral. there is no changing their there minds

People who think homosexuality is moral are narrowminded.

God, as understood by ethical monotheist, is merely "pre"-historic superstition that has been throughly indoctrinate into feeble minds. The notion that "that behavior" is immoral because God or the gods decreed it is laughable on its face. The apriori and aposteriori foundations, whether framed in Ontological, Cosmological or Teleological argumentation, are epistemologically vacuous and enslaves humankind into a false reality...into a delusional residency. Human behavior must be measured in ethical standards dictated by society NOT moral behavior dictated by superstitious musings of the intellectual challenged. So...to "the Believers" I say...SNAP OUT OF IT!!!!!

Why do so many of you hate gay people? Why is homosexuality so frightening?

GAY PEOPLE AREN'T FRIGHTENING. THEY ARE DISGUSTING.

THERE WOULD BE LESS FUSS IF THOSE TWISTED INDIVIDUALS, WHO HAVE DIFFICULTY DISTINGUISHING SEX OR SPECIES, WOULD JUST AVOID FLAUNTING THEIR PERVERSIONS.

I SUPPORT GENERAL PACE'S OPINION REGARDING HOMOSEXUALS. THEIR PRESENCE IN THE MILITARY IS QUITE DISRUPTIVE.

To the "homosexual acts are not comparable to acts of necrophilia, bestiality, and pedophilia" viewpoint:

What is the moral difference between these acts? What makes acts of pedophilia wrong and acts of homosexuality right?

God, as understood by ethical monotheist, is merely "pre"-historic superstition that has been throughly indoctrinate into feeble minds. The notion that "that behavior" is immoral because God or the gods decreed it is laughable on its face. The apriori and aposteriori foundations, whether framed in Ontological, Cosmological or Teleological argumentation, are epistemologically vacuous and enslaves humankind into a false reality...into a delusional residency. Human behavior must be measured in ethical standards dictated by society NOT moral behavior dictated by superstitious musings of the intellectual challenged. So...to "the Believers" I say...SNAP OUT OF IT!!!!!

John Warner used to be a well respected Senator. He is now an embarrassment to the citizens of the Commonwealth of Virginia. Harry Bird of West Virginia has nothing on Warner of Virginia. Both are nothing but "senile old men" who don't have enough brain power left to make the decision to retire!!!!!!

Someone above wrote:

"Dan Hooker, I'm afraid you're wrong. Homosexuality occurs throughout nature. I have a gay brother who is a Marine reserve, and I'll tell you, it pisses me off when people say he's innately "immoral." I don't know if people are born gay or straight, but he tried to change being gay, hated it and himself for years and years, and has finally come to accept it. He's happier now. To me it's like being left-handed -- for years schools tried to force lefties to be righties, and guess what. It didn't work."

My response: And drug addicts are much happier indulging in their habit than not too. Does that mean they should?

Sen. Warner's true colors come out and he's a RINO!
Homosexuality is the only sexual sin that God calls an "abomination" and the end times will have widespread homosexuality as an indication of just how perverse humans have become. It's no surprise that it's happening, but it is a surprise that folks who pretend to be Christians are so accepting of it.
It doesn't matter what people say...it's God who speaks the truth and He has spoken.

Hey if the Army does not want us [homosexuals] to be there cause its "immoral" then hell if we [homosexuals] will die for this country!

Hah! Love it. The recruiters have lowered the bar and are now taking straight people with criminal backgrounds and borderline mental retardation, but the forces have fired over 40 translators fluent in Arabic languages because they're gay.

Translators! You just want to toss up your hands...and your cookies at the ignorance of the hordes of swooning Amen junkies who litter this board with their sanctimonious hypocrisy.

here are just a few quotes from the old testament
followed by the person on whom CHRISTianity is based upon...well at least i thought it was

Hmmm a lot of men are doomed on this one

If a male is uncircumcised, that is, if the flesh of his foreskin has not been cut away, such a one shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant."

Just about everyone is in trouble here...

Tell the Israelites: When a person inadvertently commits a sin against some command of the LORD by doing one of the forbidden things,
3
2 if it is the anointed priest who thus sins and thereby makes the people also become guilty, he shall present to the LORD a young, unblemished bull as a sin offering for the sin he committed.

We are going to need A LOT of bulls....

Tell the Israelites: You shall not eat the fat of any ox or sheep or goat.
24
Although the fat of an animal that has died a natural death or has been killed by wild beasts may be put to any other use, you may not eat it.
25
If anyone eats the fat of an animal from which an oblation is made to the LORD, such a one shall be cut off from his people.
26
Wherever you dwell, you shall not partake of any blood, be it of bird or of animal.
27
Every person who partakes of any blood shall be cut off from his people

Even more people here are in trouble...God what can we eat??? And there are even more than this...

"Speak to the Israelites and tell them: Of all land animals these are the ones you may eat:
3

any animal that has hoofs you may eat, provided it is cloven-footed and chews the cud.
4
But you shall not eat any of the following that only chew the cud or only have hoofs: the camel, which indeed chews the cud, but does not have hoofs and is therefore unclean for you;
5
2 the rock badger, which indeed chews the cud, but does not have hoofs and is therefore unclean for you;
6
the hare, which indeed chews the cud, but does not have hoofs and is therefore unclean for you; and the pig,
7
which does indeed have hoofs and is cloven-footed, but does not chew the cud and is therefore unclean for you.
8
Their flesh you shall not eat, and their dead bodies you shall not touch; they are unclean for you.
9
"Of the various creatures that live in the water, you may eat the following: whatever in the seas or in river waters has both fins and scales you may eat.
10
But of the various creatures that crawl or swim in the water, whether in the sea or in the rivers, all those that lack either fins or scales are loathsome for you,
11
and you shall treat them as loathsome. Their flesh you shall not eat, and their dead bodies you shall loathe.
12
Every water creature that lacks fins or scales is loathsome for you.
13
3 "Of the birds, these you shall loathe and, as loathsome, they shall not be eaten: the eagle, the vulture, the osprey,
14
the kite, the various species of falcons,
15
the various species of crows,
16
the ostrich, the nightjar, the gull, the various species of hawks,
17
the owl, the cormorant, the screech owl,
18
the barn owl, the desert owl, the buzzard,
19

Here's the famous one....

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination.

And a contradiction or not???

You shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.

More trouble for A LOT of men..

Do not clip your hair at the temples, nor trim the edges of your beard.
28

And women...

Do not lacerate your bodies for the dead, and do not tattoo yourselves. I am the LORD.
29

And....

"Do not go to mediums or consult fortune-tellers, for you will be defiled by them. I, the LORD, am your God.

We are going to have to kill a lot of people on these

"Anyone who curses his father or mother shall be put to death; since he has cursed his father or mother, he has forfeited his life.
10
If a man commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death.
11
If a man disgraces his father by lying with his father's wife, both the man and his stepmother shall be put to death; they have forfeited their lives.
12

Slaves are GREAT!!!! and keep them kids....

"Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess, provided you buy them from among the neighboring nations.
45
You may also buy them from among the aliens who reside with you and from their children who are born and reared in your land. Such slaves you may own as chattels,
46
and leave to your sons as their hereditary property, making them perpetual slaves. But you shall not lord it harshly over any of the Israelites, your kinsmen

Now from the the man (Jesus that is)himself...seems a little different...I don't know...

"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.'
39
But I say to you, offer no resistance to one who is evil. When someone strikes you on (your) right cheek, turn the other one to him as well.
40
If anyone wants to go to law with you over your tunic, hand him your cloak as well.
41
Should anyone press you into service for one mile, 26 go with him for two miles.
42
Give to the one who asks of you, and do not turn your back on one who wants to borrow.
43
27 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
44
But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you

Stop judging, that you may not be judged.
2
For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you.
3

"Do to others whatever you would have them do to you. This is the law and the prophets

Hmmm.....

To Rene':

Rene' you are really clueless and it seems you have been indoctrined into rationalism. You people go around spouting that their is no God, and that Bible is fantasy. You people are so blinded by the devil you can't see truth anymore.

When you come into a personal relationship with the creator of the universe, you no longer view the Bible or God as myth. Once you expeience His power and His love in the depth of your being, no one can ever again deceive you into thinking there is no God. God is very real and people in the past like CS Lewis and Lee Stroebel who have done research to set out to disprove the Bible and Jesus Christ, have all found out how wrong they were and fell on their face in repentance for their blasphemy. Please consider doing the same as these men who were once in your shoes of darkness.

He is very real and He loves you and wants to have a personal relationship with you. He died for your sins, just like he died for mine. For the Love of God please snap out of your satanic deception. "In Jesus Name: I command you satan to come out of her, so that she can know the truth that will set her free"

all has been said, and i agree with GOD,NOT MAN. when GOD created adam and eve...he did not make mistake...we all know in our heart that homosexualiy it is a very filthy sin..should we hate the sinner? absolutly not!..satan is decieving the nations in order to distroy GOD,S creation,we who are called by HIS name should humble ourselves and pray for forgivness and ask GOD to heal our land, homosexuallity is a big lie and sin..but what about abortion!adultery,lieing,stealing,fornication,all of this is sinful and if we dont change our way as a nation, we will withhold back the blessings that GOD has given us due to taking the GOSPLES to the other nations. and become desolate,hungry ,poor,and distroyed,what happend to the roman empire,and why...america come back to GOD..GAY PERSON ITS NOT TO LATE TO TURN FROM YOUR WAYS, if you were truly happy you would not have to shout it to the nation or force you agenda as being right on others ...by trying to change laws making it a hate crime to speak the truth according to the word of GOD.. wake up..and trun to GOD....

America was built on freedoms our men and women (including General Pace) have fought and died for those freedoms. To say that a soldier has no right to say his opinion in an abomination, they should be the first to express their opinions since they put on the uniform of this country and fight for those very freedoms we sometimes take for granted. So maybe homosexuality is immoral and maybe it is a sin but that is not the argument here the argument is if a general can express his view points in public. I applaud the General for not pandering around the question and telling his opinion straight forward. As for the good senator he also has the right to his opinion but I ask, what is his true opinion of the homosexual debate. Political correctness aside do you really believe your statement regarding the Generals' opinion or are you playing politics.

I thank God there are still good strong men in our milatary that will stand by the truth. Thousands of years of history have reconized the immorality of homosexuality. Gen. Pace is absolutly correct is his "personal" view. There are many things that are immoral, this is one of them.

In regards to Stephen Joseph Rotolo's comment:
"Who cares what this moron Pace believes?"... the answer is me.

I care what he thinks because I serve active duty in the military as we speak. I care because he is a man that has spend his entire life defending you and I and because of that, I think he deserves the respect of each and every person who reads this. It really doesn't matter if I agree or disagree with him, although I totally agree.

Let's look at it from another angle. Gen. Pace, a decortaed war veteran who is now the Chairman of the JCS, said he personally doesn't agree and thinks it's immoral. On the other side you have Stephen Joseph Rotolo, who's first sentence called Gen. Pace a "moron". I don't know about you, but I think it's quite alright that Gen. Pace said his peace and I stand behind him 100%.

Semper Fi.

I will pray for those of you out there that believe there is nothing wrong with homosexuality. Especially for those of you who don't believe in God for He does believe in you. May repentence be yours and the mercy of God's light shine upon you.

Well...where to begin. First, as an American living Europe (originally from Oklahoma), I can tell you that the more tolerant (look it up) a society is, the fewer social ills they have. Take the Scandinavian countries, Canada or even Massachussetts, they have the lowest divorce rate, poverty rate, crime rate (per person), murder rate (per person), teenage pregnancy rate, lowest drug/alcohol dependancy rates across the board compared to societies that are more 'religious oriented' Oklahoma, Arkansas Missiissippi...etc. This would contradict claims of America going to hell in a handbasket because of tolerance.

Secondly, the Bible, it is interesting that the 10 commandments said nothing about homosexuality, nor did Jesus (he certainly did not say they were all evil creatures intent on our destruction). Furthermore, most of you have actually never studied the history of the Bible...the several books left out...all the translation difficulties...the fact that in Judaism there is no Lucifer (Satan ot Stn means obstacle in Hebrew) or hell as we know it. These ideas were much later applications through history. You should read the Book of Thomas for some insight. The Bible is a flawed contradictory book assembled by a group of men (Council of Nicea, I think) who fought and argued about what to leave in and out...these men were flawed (as are all men)...all the arguments over translations by men who are flawed and our modern day interpretations which are flawed. Those who quote scripture should learn the context and history behind the book you are quoting and living your lives through before you base you love or hate on any text...always think, if there is a God I have to believe that is what he gave us a brain for!

General Pace's opinion was absolutely correct. Period. I don't understand Sen. Warner. All I can say is this: people, please wake up! Along with adultery and fornication, homosexuality is simply a wrong choice. Anyone who commits these acts is guilty. We can debate this all day long but the fact of the matter is this is not man's law. It is the law of Jehovah God. The Bible clearly teaches that homosexuality is an abominable sin. God will harshly judge abominable sin. Politicians and political parties may be willing to say or do anything to stay in power. But a brazen denial of the Holy Word of God is just another deception. Do not be deceived friend. God is not mocked. Homosexuality is a wrong choice. Please get your act together while there is still time. Chickens will come home to roost!

I thank God there are still good strong men in our milatary that will stand by the truth. Thousands of years of history have reconized the immorality of homosexuality. Gen. Pace is absolutly correct in his "personal" view. There are many things that are immoral, this is one of them.

YOU are NOT the judge of the choices people make in this life. Christians are NOT judges. God IS THE JUDGE OF ALL HIS CHILDREN. Christians try to uphold the teachings of God. If that doesn't suit you--talk to God. Don't take your confutatioms out on God-fearing people. You are wasting your time and making a fool of yourself.

I agree with General Pace, and I believe that most Americans do as well. Senator Warner has long been in bed with liberal demagogues. His sole intention in condemning Pace is to pander to his elitist, leftwing friends. He's an old goat that should have been let out to pasture a decade ago.

Eddie -

How can you be GAY and profess that you are Christian? I know God loves you but your are confused! I pray that you repent of your sin. Leviticus 20:13. Read it!
It is an abomination to the Lord!
General Pace - I salute you!

Many believe that the Islamic fundamentalists hate America over over the ancient crusades that occurred before our nation even existed. The real anger is over the negative effect America has on their communities. Hollywood is the major influence where premarital sex is promoted and gay lifestyle is embraced. America promotes freedom with no moral standards. America is no longer a beacon of morality in the world. We abort millions of unborn children as a form of birth control, divorce is totally acceptable, pornography is rampant, rape is common and now we're considering accepting gay marriage. While we're at it America, lets kick God out for being a homophobe.

"For the Love of God please snap out of your satanic deception. "In Jesus Name: I command you satan to come out of her, so that she can know the truth that will set her free"" Posted by: Jeff C | Mar 14, 2007 9:34:57 AM

I SAW THIS MOVIE WHEN IT CAME OUT. ELLEN BURSTYN DEFINITELY DESERVED THE OSCAR FOR HER PERFORMANCE!! DUDE, WE'RE LIVING IN THE USA, NOT ALIBABALAND, GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE AND ACCEPT THE HOMOSEXUAL URGES YOU'RE SUPPRESSING. WE'LL ALL BE A LOT BETTER OFF, TRUST ME!

Semper Fi General Pace! The men of the Marine Corps are behind you 100%!

Who's Warner pimping and pandering for?

Most of us normal, heterosexual people who are not perverts agree that our moral code condemns homosexual acts.

It is hard enough building a cohesive, working, combat team without perversion in the ranks.

Semper Fidelis

“I believe homosexual acts between two individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts."

Two individuals....so three-ways are ok, right?

In my day it was normal for a person to express his point of view when it was asked. He didn't wonder what people would think of him or adjust his answer to fit his audience.

These people were known as "men".

While he's trashing homo's and adulterers, does Gen. Pace also condemn all of those who engage in sexual relations outside the bounds of Holy Matrimony?

And what about all those poor lost souls who masturbate??

Wow, I'm amazed at the ignorance. Apparently, macho straight folks are afraid of folks they deem as "sissys." Do you really think gay and lesbians in the armed forces would find you attractive and can't control their urges if for some stupid reason they did? Apparently some of you have been brainwashed to believe that gays and lesbians are nothing but sexual predators and your comments spell that out. What some of you need is some serious de-programming and the capacity to separate your own fears and beliefs from interfering with the rights and freedoms of others to have the same rights as you.

If you want to believe homosexuality is immoral, that's fine. And siding with General Pace is fine too. But they're your views and yours to own, and as long as you choose to live in this country, you're going to share space with others whose essence you detest. If not, leave for another country where dictatorships and the Taliban rule and you'll be right at home. As I see it, the composition of your religious beliefs that promote discrimination are meanspirited. God is surely not as ugly as you paint him. God is about love and goodness, and your viewpoints evoke God as the Almighty purveyor of insecurity. The bible was written by flesh and blood. And in it is the challenge to think for yourselves, rather than following dogma ingrained into your consciousness from the moment of birth.

Most of you wouldn't even know a gay person if he or she were talking to you face to face, or risked his or her life to save a fellow soldier. The only thing immoral about love between people of the same gender, is what you define it to be, and that somehow your religious beliefs are the supreme end all in determining such. The fact is there is no harm to anyone any more than it is for two people of the opposite gender to love each other. Can you reasonably show otherwise without turning to your mythology and fear-based hysteria? Do you really truly know anything about gay people other than the disdain and falsehoods you've been taught and regurgitate from day one?

Homosexuality is immoral. It is also abnormal, and unnatural.

Because the Left has control of the mainstream media, those of us like General Peter Pace are attacked for their honesty when we point this out.

Sadly this is just one more example of why this country is going down the tubes.

Most people stopped taking Warner seriously when he married Elizabeth Taylor.

You people can rationalize all you want about breaking the rules that God presented us to live by, while I keep my faith that someday I will be rewarded for my devout obligations to God.
This whole gay issue reminds me of days gone by, when "the flower child" of the 60's, rejected conventional society while tripping on LSD. They thought they had the right ideas about the way they should live...until they eventually learned that DRUGS KILL! If we all succumbed to the premise that "gay is okay", I wonder where we'll all be in say 50 years from now. Hmmmm?

I agree with the General, it is immoral.

when are we going to wake up. and see the course we are taking is going to lead to the destruction of this country.

John Warner is a useless, blowviating, pathetic piece of Virginia dung.

Liberals are always preaching tolerance. However, when someone has a different opinion than they do, they cry foul. Doesn't sound very tolerant to me. Pace merely stated his personal opinion. The policy has not changed (the policy that liberal Moskos developed and Clinton agreed to) and I have not heard of Pace ever discriminating against homosexuals. I don't understand the outrage.

Patricia said, "I believe we should worry much less about what's in a man's pants and worry much more about what's in his head and heart".

Is anyone (other than a woman or a homosexual) the least concerned about what's in a man's pants? Though Despite questioning your thought processes, I'll offer you different thought nugget to chew on.

Do you believe we should have any concern about what's in a man's veins? My doctor, my dentist, and their assistants wear rubber rubber gloves.

To the best of my knowledge, rubber gloves have not been added to general issue, although, without question, fighting men are engaged in a much bloodier profession!

To Jethro:

Homophilia IS homosexuality.

Good for Senator Warner! It is refreshing to see a Republican stepping up to the plate to defend individual rights. Republicans are the biggest hypocrites when it comes to anything gay-related. Republicans supposedly are the champions of individual rights, but when it comes to the individual rights of a homosexual, all of their fundamentals go out the window.

Christianity has raped the Republican party and caused it to be illogical, dogmatic and hypocritical. Shame on you all.

Show me one place in the New Testament where Jesus, your savior, condemns homosexuality. You can't because he NEVER condemns it. Ever. He mentions Sodom and Gemmorah, but it is not in reference to sexuality. It is in reference to respect and hospitality. Jesus loved everyone and he also REPEATEDLY mentioned something about being "non judgemental". Shame on each of you who is hateful towards homosexuals. Shame on you for being hypocrites against the teachings of your so-called savior. Shame on you for disrespecting the fundamental moral of the Unites States: "Don't Tread on Me".

Wow. I am completely stunned.
Nearly six hundred comments on General Paces personal beliefs regarding the sexual habits of others.
What a sad and disturbing indicator of what peoples interests and priorities are.
Baghdad is burning.
Keep fiddling away, all you modern day Neros.

You ignorant bible-thumpers make me laugh! Two questions for you: You say that gays should not be allowed into the Force because being gay is "immoral".

Well, if you're a born again christian, you must also believe that Jews are immoral for not accepting Christ AND that the divorced and remarried are living in sin. QUESTION ONE: Should JEWS and REMARRIED people be kept out of the Force?

You also say that people must believe the Bible and "follow its teachings". Ok, fine. QUESTION TWO: Do you follow this teaching: "Slaves, obey your masters". (Ephesians 6:5a)

Thank you.

God Bless General Pace.

Will someone please tell me exactly what law is being unevenly applied between homosexuals and heterosexuals?

Discrimination seems to be the mantra of the homosexual lobby but I find no law that does not apply to both evenly, from "Don't ask, don't tell" to state laws restricting marriage to persons of the opposite sex.

I can hear the refrain now, "but homosexuals aren't allowed to marry/copulate with whomever they love". My simple answer is, "right". Welcome to the real world. Heterosexuals often aren't allowed to, either. Many fathers of prospective sweethearts have seen to that.

The point is that positive law is not equipped to determine or rule on the intangible issue of love or whatever people like to call "love". It is, however, equipped and distinctly mandated to determine and rule on tangible and very measureable issues which propogate the continuance and good order of society, including defining what is socially/culturally moral and what is not. General Pace, JCSC or otherwise, has simply affirmed an understanding of what is generally destructive to unit cohesion in the military and societal cohesion elsewhere, albeit by means of a personal opinion based on personal faith.

A previous poster put it very succinctly when he wrote, "If an activity, when joined into it by every member of society, leads to the total destruction of such society, how can that activity not be immoral?"

Would that the homosexual lobby could exercise a little more reason based on observation.

"Other countries laugh at our crippling legacy of bigotry and ignorance and Pace just gave them another sound bite."

Is that why we have received so much blessings while the world looks on? Our society is crumbling...partly because of thee immorality that is taking place. There is nothing normal about homosexuality. Its bad for your health.

GEN Pace had devoted the majority of his life to defend the right of Americans - all Americans - to speak their mind and express their opinion. Why are we holding him to a different standard? He cannot express his views? Should have he said those things in uniform? Probably not, but he expressed his personal opinion and not the policy of the DoD. He ENFORCES policy set before him and does not make it. For all of you who have forgotten history, Bill Clinton pushed the policy of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell". Every single Chairman of the Joint Chiefs have enforced that policy with due diligence, including Gen Pace. For those of you who haven't served in the armed forces, try it before using the military as a social experiment.

Warner, as so many others, speaks the Washington line in vogue at the time. This issue as others will be pushed just so far & then they will have a backlash like they never thought could be. The vast majority of folks here don't think it is Right & that it is immoral whether they have the fortitude to say so or not. This guy Pace just happens to say what so many think, Givem another medal for sticking to His beliefs & having the Courage to say so.

The only hypocrisy I see being displayed here is by gays/Atheists. Spouting nonsense about individual rights when it's pretty apparent from their posts that, if they had the power, they'd run Christians out of town.

You mean "your" rights, right?

Good for General Pace! The vast majority of Americans still believe what the vast majority of Americans have always believed--homosexuality (sodomy). Historically it has always been as it is today, a culture of depravity and death for every nation, society that has accepted it to any degree. Hollywood, the media and a self-serving traitorous government have promoted, protected this deviancy and continue to push it on the American public. This is a sad confirmation of the truth that, "All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing."

General Pace is to be commended for his courage in speaking the truth. Whether politically correct or not, HE IS RIGHT! All of the vulgar name-calling, legislating in its defense doesn't change a thing. I wonder how much thought is ever given to what constitutes actual homosexual
practices--activity that would gag a vulture.

The lifestyle and practices of homosexuals can only be condoned by a society that has absolutely lost its moral bearings and has become too stupid to survive.

Who wrote this?
Not ME.

"There is a lot of confusion regarding homosexuality here. People are saying it is psychological, and others are saying it is physiological, and a few others are saying there is a gay gene. These things are so far from the truth.
People how have engrossed in homosexual sin are full on possessed by demons and I have known testimonies of people who "were" homosexual and unable to get out of the lifestyle, and most were adamant that it was okay and they could live a gay lifestyle and be a Christian.
Once the demon was cast out of these people they changed almost immediately. They no longer had any desire for gay sex, and saw clearly for the first time in years that it is sin and it is wrong. That is the real problem, these people are so engrossed in their sin that demons now possess them. Once the demons are gone they can be free, otherwise most will never be free of it.
I think to solve the homosexuality problem in this country and the world, we need to love the sinner and hate the demon and cast it out just like Jesus did when he walked the earth.
As for you clowns that say "judge not lest you be judged" and other comments like "thou shall not murder". Please stop taking those scriptures out of context and repeating what you hear on TV. Go get a Bible and actually read it in context and learn that Jesus is very much for the war. Read the book of Revelation and you will discover that one day Jesus will come back to the Earth and destroy those who are opposed to Him and His Word. You can laugh and say it is fantasy, but on that day when you are condemned the words you read here will ring in your ears and you will be judged by God by your own words.
Wake up people it is later than you think and time is running out.
Posted by: C.Morris | Mar 14, 2007 2:13:41 AM"

I didn't write any of this tripe.
Hey rockstar, stop trolling me!

C.Morris

******************
To C. Morris,

Gays had a special protected place in society, the closet. It’s time for them to seek that protection again.
Do you think Jesus likes our military in particular or any in general?
Absolutely, Jesus loves the US military and has a special affinity for Marines.
What war would Jesus love?
Any war against Muslims, godless communist and gays.
Who would Jesus kill?
No one, he leaves that to the Marines.
Was Jesus a philosopher?
No, he was the son of God.
Posted by: Sam Schuster | Mar 14, 2007 7:01:12 AM"

OK Gunny Hartman,
I went through basic, and probably long before you.
I also saw Full Metal Jacket, which your post seems to 'sample'.

Hey Sam,
You need to tell "President" Bush that Jesus isn't a philosopher.

Forgive me, I'm not from here. Is this Chicago or Tehran? I can't believe the amount of bigoted hate (fear?) speech on this board. Should we kill the gays? I mean, they are sinners, after all.

Let me get this straight: Killing people = moral, gay sex = immoral. When I start using the military for my moral compass, I think it's time to end it.

The General has a right to believe what he wants! I believe it is a Filthy unatural act, and nobody can tell me what I can believe period.

General Pace...you have insight (we bless you, support the view that homosexuality is immoral) on what is right for the American Military. The Bible,old and new testament, is very clear, i.e. Do not defile yourselves” Lev. 18:19–30. The passage identifies several practices as “detestable” and defiling. Chief among them are homosexuality. It’s impossible for one who takes Scripture seriously to dismiss contemporary homosexuality as merely an “alternative lifestyle.” Homosexual acts are sin. God’s decrees remain firmly engraved on the moral fabric of our universe.

Here is further fact on the subject: God gave them over to sexual impurity” Rom. 1:18–32. Commentators debate whether Paul was giving us a historical or psychological profile of our race. Yet the pattern is clear. Those who abandon God turn to false objects of worship and their society becomes more and more corrupt morally. In time, “Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them” (v. 32).
It’s significant that Paul devotes two of the eight verses describing moral corruption to homosexuality. Our society’s present drive to validate homosexual behavior as an acceptable “alternate lifestyle” places modern America squarely in Romans 1:32.

In essence, God raised General Pace to stand up and voice what majority of Americans are thinking...Scoffers will continue to scoff. But the underlying reason is not the respectability of our beliefs, but bias against a faith that calls men to take God seriously, and to curb sinful human desires.

LUIS GAYOSO

In my day it was normal for a person to express his point of view when it was asked. He didn't wonder what people would think of him or adjust his answer to fit his audience.

These people were known as "men".

Posted by: Bruce | Mar 14, 2007 9:54:20 AM

Didn't need them uppity ladies expressing their opinion back then did ya Bruce?

Ahh the good ole' days when women and minorities knew their place.

How would you have reacted if one of those "men" just freely expressing their opinion had said they were gay, or a communist, or thought women were men's equals, or a pacifist, or a...

How ignorant! Homosexuality is not a choice it is the way you are born. I can say that because I am a happily married gay man. Yes happily married. I have been with my partner for 10 years. Who are you to tell me that the love I feel in my heart everyday is immoral. And if you all think that gays and lesbians should not serve in the military please let me know when you and your children will be enlisting to replace all the brave homosexuals risking there lives for yours. Yet you stand here today judging them. Some saying homosexuals are part of the reason for the fall of america. Those of you who preach god and in the same sentence preach hate torwards your fellow man need to take a closer at why you have so much hate in your heart.

I support our troops gay or straight.

Here's a little historical military information for the educationally challenged.

The Sacred Band of the Greek State Thebes was the first Greek hoplite battalion instrumental in defeating a Spartan army at full field strength at the Battle of Leuctra in the 4th century B.C.E.. From classical Greek texts which Western civilization also owes it's belief structure alongside Judeo-Christian thought.

Talk about gays in the military. For those that are interested read below.

The Sacred Band of Thebes,
from Plutarch, Life of Pelopidas,
trans. John Dryden

+++

Gorgidas, according to some, first formed the Sacred Band of three hundred chosen men, to whom, as being a guard for the citadel, the State allowed provision, and all things necessary for exercise: and hence they were called the city band, as citadels of old were usually called cities. Others say that it was composed of young men attached to each other by personal affection, and a pleasant saying of Pammenes is current, that Homer's Nestor was not well skilled in ordering an army, when he advised the Greeks to rank tribe and tribe, and family and family together, that-

"So tribe might tribe, and kinsmen kinsmen aid."
but that he should have joined lovers and their beloved. For men of the same tribe or family little value one another when dangers press; but a band cemented by friendship grounded upon love is never to be broken, and invincible; since the lovers, ashamed to be base in sight of their beloved, and the beloved before their lovers, willingly rush into danger for the relief of one another. Nor can that be wondered at since they have more regard for their absent lovers than for others present; as in the instance of the man who, when his enemy was going to kill him, earnestly requested him to run him through the breast, that his lover might not blush to see him wounded in the back. It is a tradition likewise that Iolaus, who assisted Hercules in his labours and fought at his side, was beloved of him; and Aristotle observes that, even in his time, lovers plighted their faith at Iolaus's tomb. It is likely, therefore, that this band was called sacred on this account; as Plato calls a lover a divine friend. It is stated that it was never beaten till the battle at Chaeronea: and when Philip, after the fight, took a view of the slain, and came to the place where the three hundred that fought his phalanx lay dead together, he wondered, and understanding that it was the band of lovers, he shed tears and said, "Perish any man who suspects that these men either did or suffered anything that was base."

It was not the disaster of Laius, as the poets imagine, that first gave rise to this form of attachment amongst the Thebans, but their lawgivers, designing to soften whilst they were young their natural fierceness, brought, for example, the pipe into great esteem, both in serious and sportive occasions, and gave great encouragement to these friendships in the Palaestra, to temper the manners and characters of the youth. With a view to this they did well, again, to make Harmony, the daughter of Mars and Venus, their tutelar deity; since, where force and courage is joined with gracefulness and winning behaviour, a harmony ensues that combines all the elements of society in perfect consonance and order.

Gorgidas distributed this Sacred Band all through the front ranks of the infantry, and thus made their gallantry less conspicuous; not being united in one body, but mingled with so many others of inferior resolution, they had no fair opportunity of showing what they could do. But Pelopidas, having sufficiently tried their bravery at Tegyrae, where they had fought alone and around his own person, never afterward divided them, but, keeping them entire, and as one man, gave them the first duty in the greatest battles. For as horses ran brisker in a chariot than singly, not that their joint force divides the air with greater ease, but because being matched one against the other emulation kindles and inflames their courage; thus he thought brave men, provoking one another to noble actions, would prove most serviceable, and most resolute, where all were united together.

For the specifics of the Battle of Leuctra itself and the tactics and formations used, click below,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Leuctra

My name is Matthew by the way, I am not afraid.

Whew! A lot of comments to read through! It looks like about 199 out of 200 seem to support the General's beliefs. Whew! Lucky for me, I guess, as while in Viet Nam, I found that foxHOLES weren't the only holes some wanted into! It looks like the majority has spoken, trouble is it stops with the talk! Why can't the majority rule in a government supposedly set up to go the way of the majority? Paradox? Write your senator, some of them, unfotunately, need to be STRAIGHTened out too. I'm not a Bible thumper, but this is a redundant question. What do you think the world was built for? Name Cuniglia ring a bell? All nations and all governments which have promoted homosexual behavior have failed. Are we supposed to reinvent the wheel for the few and work hard at making it easy for someone and something which goes against the very grain of NATURE?

Looks like someone did ask the troops... See for yourself.

Zogby Poll: "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" Not Working

Survey Indicates Shift in Military Attitudes

Nearly one in four U.S. troops (23%) say they know for sure that someone in their unit is gay or lesbian, and of those 59% said they learned about the person's sexual orientation directly from the individual, a Zogby International poll of troops who served in Iraq and Afghanistan shows.

More than half (55%) of the troops who know a gay peer said the presence of gays or lesbians in their unit is well known by others. According to the "don't ask, don't tell" policy, service members are not allowed to say that they are gay.

These findings come amidst significant changes in the military and political landscape. This week, Robert M. Gates took over as the U.S. Secretary of Defense, and next month, Democrats will take control of the Congress. Some observers expect the new climate to prompt intense examination of all aspects of military policy including potential reinstitution of the draft, which is advocated by some in the new majority's leadership.

According Congressman Marty Meehan (D-MA), "These new data prove that thousands of gay and lesbian service members are already deployed overseas and are integrated, important members of their units. It is long past time to strike down 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' and create a new policy that allows gays and lesbians to serve openly."

The Zogby Interactive poll of 545 troops who served in Iraq and Afghanistan was designed in conjunction with the Michael D. Palm Center at the University of California, Santa Barbara, and conducted by Zogby Oct. 24-26, 2006. It carries a margin of error of +/- 4.3 percentage points.

Of those in combat units, 21% said they know for certain that someone in their unit is gay or lesbian, slightly less than for those in combat support units (25%) and combat service support units (22%). One in five troops (20%) in other units said they know for certain someone is gay or lesbian in their unit. Overall, nearly half (45%) say there are people in their unit they suspect are gay or lesbian, but they don't know for sure. Slightly more than half (52%) say they have received training on the prevention of anti-gay harassment in the past three years. But 40% say they have not received this type of training, which is mandated by Defense Department policy.

The data also indicate that military attitudes about homosexuality have shifted. In the early 1990's, many senior officers argued that U.S. troops could not form bonds of trust with gays and lesbians, according to Dr. Aaron Belkin, Director of the Palm Center, who has written widely on the subject. According to the new Zogby data, however, nearly three in four troops (73%) say they are personally comfortable in the presence of gays and lesbians. Of the 20% who said they are uncomfortable around gays and lesbians, only 5% are "very" uncomfortable, while 15% are "somewhat" uncomfortable. Just two percent of troops said knowing that gays are not allowed to serve openly was an important reason in their decision to join the military.

Some troops believe the integration of openly gay and lesbian service members in the military could undermine cohesion, but those who know at least one gay peer are less likely to believe it would negatively impact morale. Of those who know a gay or lesbian peer, 27% said it has a negative impact on the morale of their unit. By contrast, among those who do not know of a gay or lesbian person in their unit, or are unsure of their presence, 58% said it would have a negative impact on their unit.

Prominent supporters of "don't ask, don't tell" have expressed concerns about privacy in the shower, Dr. Belkin said, but nearly three out of four troops said in the Zogby poll that they usually or almost always take showers privately – only 8% say they usually or almost always take showers in group stalls.

For a detailed methodological statement, please visit:
http://www.zogby.com/methodology/readmeth.dbm?ID=1158

"You also say that people must believe the Bible and "follow its teachings". Ok, fine. QUESTION TWO: Do you follow this teaching: "Slaves, obey your masters". (Ephesians 6:5a)
Thank you.

Posted by: Chris Elle | Mar 14, 2007 10:18:27 AM"

CE,
Hey, you can't ask those questions!

Only the Christians can rub a verse in your face, not the other way
around.

When you do it, it's taking a Bible quote 'out of context'.

When they do it, it's the word of God!

I'm surprised that hardly anyone stresses the natural arguments.

The whole war on terrorism and then some could be paid for with the amount of research and money spent on Aids and the whole host of STDs, that has been brought on by Immoral behavior.

New York banned Trans Fat and are thinking about banning metal baseball bats. Why don't they think about inacting the laws of the military on social behavior.

Certainly would lead to better health, and more money to spend on those ARM mortgages whose fixed rate has expired.

I know that is not realistic, but people act like God's moral laws are completely unrealistic - it seems, though, "Mother Nature" has got God's back. Maybe, just maybe, we aren't meant to treat sex like it is a sport

Warner is a RINO, and he's better suited for the Democrat Party.

Just to clarify a point here, Christians aren't here to shut ANYONE out of our religion, or discriminate against those who are different. Christians are here to help people, and gays are people that need help! We don't/shouldn't shove gays away as "unclean", we are ALL (note that: ALL) unclean in the eyes of the Lord.

Isaiah 64:6 "...and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags..."

We are all unclean, we all fall short of God's glory, so we are ALL IN THE SAME BOAT. When we see gays who would like to know Christ, we don't/shouldn't shoo them off like they are unclean, not fit to know Christ, we ought to embrace them (perhaps not literally, it might send the wrong message) and welcome them in.

Another thing, I see so many people insulting the opposing side like little school children! Come, come, you are responsible adults! Debate in a professional, factual fashion and more people will respect your opinion, I assure you. Yelling and shouting because your feelings are hurt only shows you to be infantile, and degrades your opinion in the view of others. Bravo to those who already realize this!

And for those who are yelling cries of "Ignorance! Ignorance! Ignorance!", and yet insist on yelling out insults and offending assumptions (Such as that we follow our religion blindly. What a joke.) instead of explanations and factual information, you are being simply foolish. If you are going to say we're ignorant, then insult us because of it, THEN not give any information at all so that you may continue to insult us, then you may as well just carry on screaming and yelling like children. For those of you sensible people who actually feel like solving a problem, instead of just making it bigger, post links, post information, post anything that will help us to see your point of view. In all honesty, I am not positive of what causes gays to become gay. Mutation? Choice? Did something happen in their childhood? What? I am inclined to belive it is unnatural simply because it serves no natural purpose. They cannot have babies, so they cannot pass on a mutation, and I don't think that a mutation like this could happen so often. So I ask myself, what else has the power to override such a basic human tendency? The mind, of course. Whatever it is, I believe that the mind is the focal point of the problem.

So, all of you gay experts out there, you tell me, am I ignorant? Is what I said anywhere near the truth? I'm not really trying to bash anyone here, I just want to know the truth of the matter. That is, if you're willing to tell me.

It appears, from this string of comments, that most of you who disagree with General Pace feel the same way about him as he feels about homosexual behavior. The hypocracy is blinding.

Keep chatting away. It confirms your belief that only your opinion has worth. You all are doing a better joob of marginalizing yourselves than any religious conservative could do.

Ad hominum attacks are the last desperate weapon used by a person who knows they have already been beaten. What could be more bigoted than calling somebody a bigot...simply because of his religious preference? You folks just don't get it, do you?

What has our nation come to....we are truly in trouble. As we face an ever troubling future with the nations of the world challenging our righteousness, our motives, and our compassion, we are destroying our country from within. Our moral high ground is eroding before our feet. We do we stand?

Our country is in a sad state if we are considering compromising our standards to enlist a few thousand gay men and woman. This should not even be a topic. Don't ask, don't tell is a fine policy. By openly allowing gays in the military we have just weakened it even more. NOT because the gays are weak, but because the integrity of the units will be weakened. Straight men and gay men, in general will have trouble becoming strong cohesive unit. Descrimination will occur and now time and more money will be spent on preventing it. If we allow gays to openly enlist are we going to restrict the MOS they can serve in?

Let's not forget the millions that will be spent on training our military to be more tolerant of gays. This is just the beginning.

Homosexual behavior is not the norm, thats a fact. The only reason the behavior is on the rise is because the moral fabric of our nation is being stretched by the perverted money makers of the pornography industry and of Hollywood. Have you noticed that the two are ever closing to converging? Due to the mass media of our age the views of minority can be pushed on the views of the majority very easily. These views are corrupting the minds of our youth and the impressionable. The norms are being pushed to the edge on television and the big screen by the liberal Hollywood elitest.

One way to begin the reversal of this trend is to send a message to Hollywood that the garbage they put out is not going to be accepted.

We also need to elect officials that don't pander to the socialist liberals that would have our country become like Amsterdamn.

A previos poster was right. If we question the morality of gay behavior what's next, Pedophilia. That's no joke, what if the child is consenting because that is what has been taught as acceptable? Sickening.

We must take a stand to preserve our nation. Elect officials that represent the people, not special interests groups.

"Gays had a special protected place in society, the closet. It’s time for them to seek that protection again.

Do you think Jesus likes our military in particular or any in general?

Absolutely, Jesus loves the US military and has a special affinity for Marines.

What war would Jesus love?

Any war against Muslims, godless communist and gays.

Who would Jesus kill?

No one, he leaves that to the Marines.

Was Jesus a philosopher?

No, he was the son of God."
Posted by: Sam Schuster | Mar 14, 2007 7:01:12 AM

You need to go back to Bible study and reread, son. There is nothing equivical about "love thy neighbor as thyself." Intrigued by where Jesus mentions Muslims, communists or gays. Oh, wait, he didn't! Well that shouldn't stop a knuckle-draggin, flat-earth bigot such as yourself from mouthing off as if you, as Jesus is believed to be, are infallible. You are a man of sin. Cast not the first stone Man of Hate.

"Gays had a special protected place in society, the closet. It’s time for them to seek that protection again.

Do you think Jesus likes our military in particular or any in general?

Absolutely, Jesus loves the US military and has a special affinity for Marines.

What war would Jesus love?

Any war against Muslims, godless communist and gays.

Who would Jesus kill?

No one, he leaves that to the Marines.

Was Jesus a philosopher?

No, he was the son of God."
Posted by: Sam Schuster | Mar 14, 2007 7:01:12 AM

You need to go back to Bible study and reread, son. There is nothing equivical about "love thy neighbor as thyself." Intrigued by where Jesus mentions Muslims, communists or gays. Oh, wait, he didn't! Well that shouldn't stop a knuckle-dragging, flat-earth bigot such as yourself from mouthing off as if you, as Jesus is believed to be, are infallible. You are a man of sin. Cast not the first stone Man of Hate.

Thank god for the courage of a Marine...

The tail continues to try and wag the dog.....
Americans still understand basic morality-no matter what the politically correct,tiny minority attempts to shove down our collective- throat..

Homosexual acts and thoughts are ABSOLUTELY IMMORAL. The only possible measure of morality is the author of morality, God, Himself. This discussion starts and ends with His Words.

General Pace is my hero. Yes, he commands his soldiers to kill men with families. Yes, one of the 10 Commandments is Thou Shalt Not Kill. But the military should be seen as perfectly moral compared to the evils of homosexuality. Even though God thinks working on Sunday is worse.

Britney Spears and Kevin Federline are far better examples of upstanding human beings than gays could ever be.

As far as I'm concerned, everyone is an impudent wretch except me and those who never question the word of God, which was written by men years after the fact and translated over and over again without losing its original meaning.

Chris Elle,

Wow, you've proven how when you take things out of context, you can make it mean anything. Thanks for showing your ignorance.

Man kissing man bad. Man killing man good.

All,

The whole point of my trick question;

"Is Jesus a philosopher?"

was to elicit the answer, "no Jesus is the Son of God, not a philosopher".

All of you that believe this to be true need to question your vote for Bush in '00, if that's who you voted for.

Bush, in a debate with A. Gore, clearly indicated that he believed
Jesus was a philosopher.

(Leo T, that was the point of my question.)

My younger generation is so much more accepting of our gay friends and family than the older generation. We are more educated, more exposed to diversity, so the old prejudices just don't hold water with us. Ignorance is the cause of bigotry against gays. They have polled younger soldiers, and they are saying they are comfortable serving with gay soldiers, so what's the big deal? They already know lots of gay soldiers anyway.

It is heartening to see young people at various colleges and high schools speaking up against anti-gay bigotry and ignorance. This story on the news today about how many students are wearing pro-gay t-shirts really is heartening and shows just how far we have progressed:

"A campaign at Xavier University asked students to show their acceptance of gay people by asking them to put on a T-shirt and open their minds.

Hundreds of students stood in line to get a free T-shirt silk-screened with four words: “Gay? Fine by me.”

The giveaway is fashioned after a popular project at many other universities in which thousands of students wear the pro-gay t-shirts.

Here is the Senator's web site for contacting him.
Don't just fume here, do something affirmative and
tell him what you think.

http://www.senate.gov/~warner/contact/contactme.cfm

I find Steven Joseph Rotolo's comment interesting, especially this portion:

"Besides, if you are going to make an argument for keeping discrimination in the armed forces, you have to make the argument based on the necessity of such discrimination and NOT on the fact that gays offend his moral sensitivity. Who is he? GOD? Does the universe revolve around him? Are things the way they are because of his beliefs?"

Actually no, General Pace ISN'T God (nor does he claim to be), but God IS God, and He says that homosexuality is immoral. At least Mr. Rotolo (in probably an unplanned way) acknowledged where the truth and authority truly lies.

My doctor is a female Air Force reservist and flight surgeon. She is gay as far as I can tell. She is also extremely disciplined, honest, and an excellent doctor. I thank her for her service on every visit. I think there is a fear that discipline would break down. This fear is based on a steriotype. I mean, imagine a Naval ship manned only by gay men. Does your imagination depict a prepared and disciplined fighting ship, or some sort of gay fiesta. If you said the latter, that's the stereotype kicking in. My experience with my doctor has helped me to mentally get past the stereotype, and now I am comfortable with gays actively serving our country. The more the better.

Even Republicans are speaking against anti-gay bigotry these days. Times have indeed changed for the better. Frmr Republican Senator Alan Simpson of Wyoming has slammed Pace's comments and supports allowing gays to serve in the military openly.

By Alan K. Simpson
Wednesday, March 14, 2007; A15

As a lifelong Republican who served in the Army in Germany, I believe it is critical that we review -- and overturn -- the ban on gay service in the military. I voted for "don't ask, don't tell." But much has changed since 1993.

My thinking shifted when I read that the military was firing translators because they are gay. According to the Government Accountability Office, more than 300 language experts have been fired under "don't ask, don't tell," including more than 50 who are fluent in Arabic. This when even Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice recently acknowledged the nation's "foreign language deficit" and how much our government needs Farsi and Arabic speakers. Is there a "straight" way to translate Arabic? Is there a "gay" Farsi? My God, we'd better start talking sense before it is too late. We need every able-bodied, smart patriot to help us win this war.

First, America's views on homosexuals serving openly in the military have changed dramatically. The percentage of Americans in favor has grown from 57 percent in 1993 to a whopping 91 percent of 18- to 29-year-olds surveyed in a Gallup poll in 2003.

Military attitudes have also shifted. Fully three-quarters of 500 vets returning from Iraq and Afghanistan said in a December Zogby poll that they were comfortable interacting with gay people. Also last year, a Zogby poll showed that a majority of service members who knew a gay member in their unit said the person's presence had no negative impact on the unit or personal morale. Senior leaders such as retired Gen. John Shalikashvili and Lt. Gen. Daniel Christman, a former West Point superintendent, are calling for a second look.

Second, 24 nations, including 12 in Operation Enduring Freedom and nine in Operation Iraqi Freedom, permit open service. Despite controversy surrounding the policy change, it has had no negative impact on morale, cohesion, readiness or recruitment.

Third, there are not enough troops to perform the required mission. The Army is "about broken," in the words of Colin Powell. The Army's chief of staff, Gen. Peter Schoomaker, told the House Armed Services Committee in December that "the active-duty Army of 507,000 will break unless the force is expanded by 7,000 more soldiers a year." To fill its needs, the Army is granting a record number of "moral waivers," allowing even felons to enlist. Yet we turn away patriotic gay and lesbian citizens.

The Urban Institute estimates that 65,000 gays are serving and that there are 1 million gay veterans. These gay vets include Capt. Cholene Espinoza, a former U-2 pilot who logged more than 200 combat hours over Iraq, and Marine Staff Sgt. Eric Alva, who lost his right leg to an Iraqi land mine. Since 2005, more than 800 personnel have been discharged from "critical fields" -- jobs considered essential but difficult in terms of training or retraining, such as linguists, medical personnel and combat engineers. Aside from allowing us to recruit and retain more personnel, permitting gays to serve openly would enhance the quality of the armed forces.

Since 1993, I have had the rich satisfaction of knowing and working with many openly gay and lesbian Americans, and I have come to realize that "gay" is an artificial category when it comes to measuring a man or woman's on-the-job performance or commitment to shared goals. It says little about the person. Our differences and prejudices pale next to our historic challenge. Gen. Pace is entitled, like anyone, to his personal opinion, even if it is completely out of the mainstream of American thinking. But he should know better than to assert this opinion as the basis for policy of a military that represents and serves an entire nation. Let us end "don't ask, don't tell." This policy has become a serious detriment to the readiness of America's forces as they attempt to accomplish what is arguably the most challenging mission in our long and cherished history.

We are all unhappy with our elected officials (both Right and Left). Let's get on the state ballots "None of the Above" for the positions of senator. When you are tired of the 'lessor of two evils', vote 'None of the Above'. Then when 'None of the Above' wins a registered voter is picked at random and serves the term for the senate position. The state law would MANDATE the voter vote 'no' on EVERYTHING. Perhaps when enough 'None of the Aboves' are in DC the people running for office might listen to us.

The general's point is that all sexual activity in the military has security ramifications. Those who choose to masturbate with others of the same sex, and those who violate marriage vows, disrupt military order. Period. How can you keep an honor code if you are preying on each other instead of focusing on the enemy?

Not only is Homosexuality(Sodomy) immoral, so is fornication, adultry, beastiality, and all sexual conducts and behaviors outside the marriage bed. If we are going to deal with one issue, all need to be dealt with. All liers, theifs, murders, etc. Will have their part in the Lake of fire. That is not religion, that is a fact.

GAY PEOPLE who are wringing their hands over the ignorant comments on this board should instead be cheering loudly. If the ONLY arguments that the bigoted crowd can come up with are "gays are abnormal" and "it's against the bible", YOU HAVE WON the argument hands-down. Notice how so many of those types on this board cannot THINK. For example, the argument "it's against the bible" is utterly and most fantastically torpedoed by one simple comeback: "So is divorce. Do you think divorced people should be kicked out of the military?" Another example is the lack of any insight whatsoever into actual reality. One bible thumper here laments, "If we let gays into the military, it will be destroyed," apparently without knowing that gays have always been present in the Force and have received many medals for their heroism. Again, to the gay people here: REJOICE, for your bigoted enemies simply have NO rational, educated arguments agaisnt providing you with full, absolute equality under the law. You've won.

The word of God (Bible) says the homosexual act is immoral, c'est tous!
We've let the country be taken over by people who hate Christian values, hate Christians, and will lie, cheat, steal,and basically due anything to get rid of us.
For the person who said the rest of the world is laughing at us. I live in Europe and know first hand that the rest of the world is falling apart, and we're (usa) following them right down the tube. Just keep believing what the politicians (republicans & democrats), the media, and crack pots in the homosexual agenda are telling you and you'll be fine.

Pace is right and Warner is wrong inmoral=abomination.

what is warner`s moral standards?

To: Bob graham las vegas | Mar 14, 2007 10:42:09 AM:

It is exactly because of beliefs such as yours that stipulate the majority voice is the only one that matters, that we have and need a constitution that protects the liberty of all Americans to live equally under the law.

You don't have to like gay people and who they love. You can despise gays. But if you love this country and believe in its foundation of freedom and equality, then you will support the rights of others to be treated the same as you. Your God may not be my God. So whose rules?

If the rights of the minority were not protected and valued, we'd still have slavery and an entire gender barred from voting in a so-called country that values freedom, equality and democracy.

That is the great hypocrisy of our country and the embarrassment of our history; we cherry-pick who is worthy of the so-called values we claim we go to war to protect.

There is a reason our founding fathers made no mention of God in our Constitution or evoked one religion as supreme law above all others. It is because unmitigated power corrupts and history is full of great atrocities culled in the name of God.

Whose God is the right God? Every religion claims their's is. I tell you one thing, the Jesus portrayed by some here sounds like an evil tyrant who will slay those who disobey. Sounds to me like a religion of fear rather than love. And a Jesus with such low self-esteem, he can't tolerate descent. I believe in God, but religion is a human-made creation designed to suppress and brainwash and demands complicity not for inherent good or evil, but for fear of punishment come judgement day. No wonder why some folks here despise homosexuality; they believe they'll go to hell if they don't utterly condemn it. They hate homosexuality because they fear God's wrath and is what drives them. So ultimately hatred of gays is fueled by fear of God and looking out for their own selfish interests.

Come judgment day, I believe God looks for the goodness and kindness in people's hearts and how they treat their fellow human beings and not cause harm to others. If God is so hung up on homosexuality as the believers here claim, I say God should step down from his post and get some psychotherapy.

As an employer, I don't have "sexual orientation" on any of my employee applications. I am hiring the most qualified for the position. Why does anyone feel as though they have to give or tell anyone what they do behind closed doors? I would no more want to hear the details of anyones sexual escapades whether they be heterosexual or homosexual. What in the world does sexual orientation have to do with being a good soldier or a postal clerk or a doctor etc...? DON'T TELL AND WE WON'T ASK! Stop the garbage already. As far as General Paces response to the question asked of him..I defend his 1st amendment rights of free speech. In case there is any confusion of my stance, it is located in God's word.

It's one thing to agree with Gen. Pace. It's quite another to force Pace's personal beliefs on everyone else. For the U.S. military to allow fornication but not homosexuality tells me the real issue is bigotry, not morality. Really folks, quit obsessing about the sex lives of others and get a life!

Still waiting for someone to cite exactly what positive law is being unevenly applied between homosexuals and heterosexuals and exactly how homosexuals are being "discriminated" against regarding tangible behavioral issues which can be measured by law. Please advise.

The word of God (Bible) says the homosexual act is immoral, c'est tous!
We've let the country be taken over by people who hate Christian values, hate Christians, and will lie, cheat, steal,and basically due anything to get rid of us.
For the person who said the rest of the world is laughing at us. I live in Europe and know first hand that the rest of the world is falling apart, and we're (usa) following them right down the tube. Just keep believing what the politicians (republicans & democrats), the media, and crack pots in the homosexual agenda are telling you and you'll be fine.

God bless General Pace!!! Thank God there are still some godly leaders who are bold for the truth!
Homosexuality is a sin. It is just as wrong as adultery or any other sin. "but thank God who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."
"Christ died for the ungodly." That includes all of us. We are all sinners in need of a Saviour and He is Christ the Lord. He died and paid our sin debt and will forgive all who put their faith in Him. Trust Him today, ask Him to forgive all your sin. "He is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." Then read your Bible, starting with the Gospel of John, go to a Bible believing church and fellowship with other Christians, talk with God and tell others what He has done for you and He will empower you through His Holy Spirit to live a good and holy life.
It doesn't matter what your sin is-we have all broken his law as given in the ten commandments.
He has changed this sinners life when I was about to take it and He has given me hope and the promise of eternal life with Him both now and forever. He can do the same for you no matter what your sexual orientation or who you are.

I am an atheist. I support General Pace's recent comments.

We must make a distinction between homosexuality and homosexual behavior. Many on this blog confuse the two (conveniently?)

My personal opinion is that homosexuality is innate for many who are gay/lesbian...However, I beleive that others are so heterophobic/sexophobic (nurture/behavioral) they have no other options.

I do not judge the love a gay man has in his heart for his partner. I DO judge how he expresses that love given a greater context of what is good for the continued existence of humanity.

Systems of morality are based on values. Atheists can have as strong a moral compass as those who implement Biblical teachings.

I repeat: if you are rational, logical and value human life, you MUST make a moral distinction (however large or small) between heterosexual and homosexual BEHAVIOR.

The goal in any war is to kill as many of the enemy as you can without taking a single casualty. Social engineering of our military is not consistent with this goal.

I would like to take this opportunity to expess my thanks to the Godophobic responses expressed here.

You have reinforced my belief in the validity of the teachings in the Holy Bible. My Lord and Saviour inspired these writings thousand of years ago, in which he told us you would be here today and that you would mock and ridicule us. He also told us of many other events that have come to pass. Coincidence?

I don't hate people who practice deviant lifestyles, I mourn for your loss. I am a sinner also, the only differrence between a christian and an atheist is that a christian will look at his actions and change those actions or belefs that are not in harmony with God's wishes. We also understand the consequences of not doing so.

All belief systems are based on faith. I have faith in God, you have faith in yourself and man. My God promised me salvation, your faith has no such promise. Both belief systems have consequences. I am not willing to suffer the consequences of your faith.

It is also true that my beleif system limits me in the pleasures that Satan has provided this enligtened society.

God told us, thousand of years ago, that some of the churches would forgo teaching the inspired word of God and teach instead the doctrine of man. That has come to pass. God told us that good would become evil and that evil would become good. That has come to pass.

Those of you who have taken the bible out of context to justify your unholy positions do not fool anyone. If you are fooling yourself, then you are the fool.

My God does not force anyone to follow him, but he has told you what the consequense would be for those who choose not to. My God has given you freewill. You can be as sinful or ignorant as you wish to be. I don't have to pay the price for your actions, you alone will bear that burden. It is true that my God is a loving God, but he is also an enforcer of his commands. His son, also a loving God, commanded "Go and sin no more".

The General is right on!!!
Keep up the good work!!!!
Because someone states that something is immoral why do others feel that they are being judged?
Is that person not entitled to express his beliefs also? It goes against logic to believe that being gay is a normal behavior. It is not normal for the following reasons:
1. G_D created woman for man, to be his mate, he did not create two men.
2. Two women or two men cannot reproduce, therefore the species cannot sustain itself.

General Pace should not regret, nor should he retract or even modify, his statement about homosexual behavior. It is immoral,and this scourge on our nation will continue until public figures with a platform speak out with a courage that defies the outcry from the homosexual community. Once upon a time, in recent history, sodomy was a crime-----and for good reason.

Thank You General!!! And thank you for taking a stand for what you believe and not apologizing for it!!! I salute you Sir!!! Semper Fi

Take heart. The reason you are seeing a lot of so-called "Christians" talking smack on this board is because their little red lights go on when someone makes a politically-incorrect remark and they are called up by their mentors, people like Lou Sheldon and Jerry Fallwell in a mass e-mailing campaign, to fight the good fight against godless homos.

The reason the majority when polled is much more moderate on this topic has to do with the ghosts of the past. I don't know about you, but in many families (mine included) we have a ghost. His name is Mike. He died of AIDS. No one ever spoke of him and we told people he died of Leukemia. We ignored him and he died alone, an outsider, a pervert to the rest of us.

As a result, we feel very, very guilty about how we treated Mike and although we will allow the repugnance of your remarks to stand, don't try enacting any laws or amendments to discriminate against these people because we won't let that happen. We honor these fallen men silently, and we are slaves to our guilt as we watch mental midgets like YOU on this board talking about how unworthy they are of God's love.

This is a message for previous poster Donald P. White, who stated "Ever see a pedophile who wasn't homosexual?"

Guess what, genius? Most pedophile are heterosexual. Following are quotes from professionals.

"It is ludicrous to identify pedophiles as homosexuals." -- Stan Robson, Chief Deputy, Benton County Sheriffs Department(In over 14 years of Robson's work with pedophiles, 498 out of 500 offenders identified themselves as heterosexual.)

"The vast majority of offenders are heterosexual men. Male offenders who abuse young boys maintain adult heterosexual relationships. The habitual molester of boys is rarely attracted to adult males." -- Roland Summit, M.D. Head Physician, Community Consultation Service, Harbor UCLA Medical Center.

Think twice before stereotyping, Donald.

WHY IS THAT EVERYONE ELSE IS ALLOWED TO VOICE THIER OPINIONS-----""BUT"" CHRISTIANS CAN'T!!

LIBERALS ARE HYPOCRITS!!!!!

PLAIN AND SIMPLE

WORTH REPEATING!!!

LIBERALS ARE HYPOCRITS!!!!!

NOW COME AFTER ME

I agree with the general, Semper Fi!! As a Marine in the late 70's early 80's I had some homsexuals make advances towards me on the base. I did not appreciate it. Homosexuality is unnatural, and morally corrupting. God's word never changed. Sin is still sin.

NOTE to Eddie: You are only fooling your self. On Judgement day Jesus will tell you, "I never knew you, depart from me you worker of iniquity". Will you call Him a hater too!

KDW,
You nailed that one.
The overwhelming majority of pedophiles are hetero males in a position of power and authority. Fathers, priests, scout leaders, uncles, coaches.

It ain't pretty, but it's true.

"WHY IS THAT EVERYONE ELSE IS ALLOWED TO VOICE THIER OPINIONS-----""BUT"" CHRISTIANS CAN'T!!

LIBERALS ARE HYPOCRITS!!!!!

PLAIN AND SIMPLE

WORTH REPEATING!!!

LIBERALS ARE HYPOCRITS!!!!!

NOW COME AFTER ME

Posted by: MICHEAL--ST. PAUL MN | Mar 14, 2007 12:59:06 PM"

uuuhhh,,,,nah, you're not worth going after.

Insanity is relative. If everyone is insane, then wouldn't insanity be normal? And if insanity is normal would normal then be insanity?

It's difficult to define morality absolutely because everyone seems to have a slightly different definition. Perhaps a national debate should be held to come to a consensus as to what we're going to use collectively to define the word.

My personal views:
There is a difference between a person who is homosexual and the homosexuality he/she practices. One is the person and the other is the behavioral pattern. The person is just that, a person, and deserves to have the same rights as everyone else.

Homosexuality is the behavior or set of actions that the person adopts.

Gay people should be able to join whatever they'd like to join that other people are allowed to join. The homosexuality should be left behind when they enter activities with the rest of the population.

If homosexuals are going to be allowed to serve in the military (and similarly arranged organizations) openly, then the military MUST make accomodations similar to having women in the military. First thing that comes to mind would be separate bathrooms (men, women, gay, lesbian... ie 4 bathrooms. 5 if we want to include transgender I guess). Separate living quarters need to be provided as well. As a straight man, I would be disgusted to think that I'd have to undress in front of a man that is going to be scoping me out the entire time and it's why we don't have co-ed showers/barracks in the military.

The public displays of affection MUST be prohibited as it makes everyone else very uncomfortable and therefor would hinder job effectiveness.

That list goes on and on.

I have my own views as to whether something is moral or not, but regardless of morality some things are true.

Homosexuality is unnatural. Pegs don't go into pegs and dump valves were never meant to serve as inlets. Only humans have learned to force themselves to override the natural functions of their bodies to suit their perversions.

To the majority of heterosexual people, homosexuality is just plain gross.

Homosexuality is a choice. Those of you who say it's not a choice are using it as an excuse to continue to do what you want to do or what you THINK you want to do.

Homosexuality cannot continue without help from outside forces (such as people who twist it around to make it somehow ok). Like a virus, homosexuality cannot reproduce itself. In order to propagate the "species", it has to convert others. Those who convert are those who have been conditioned for some period of time to lower the immunity to the virus. Hollywood does it, schools do it, gay rights groups do it, and there are more. There's a growing campaign as the cancer takes over more and more people now extending to the conversion of children before the children even know what happened to them. If somehow homosexuality were able to completely consume the population and cloning were not perfected, then the human race would be driven to extinction by this thing that so many are saying is harmless.

If the normal population doesn't stand up and state what they believe with or without the fear despite what may be said about them, then the homosexuals' campaigns will be more and more successful. As the book says, feel the fear and do it anyway.

Homosexuals are very intolerant. They cannot tolerate people who don't accept their behavior as normal but they cannot be expected to accept normal people as normal because to do so gets a person labeled as bigoted or homophobic. Perhaps the labels are on the wrong people. Perhaps we should come up with a term like heterophobic.

Why not just start labeling people who are against murder as killophobics or something like that and let murderers rejoin the general population. Or, we can label those who are against pedophelia as pedopheliophobics and make pedophelia mainstream.

Insanity is relative. If everyone is insane, then wouldn't insanity be normal?

Discrimination ? In the 1960s in the Deep South that was discrimination, i didnt know that homosexuality is a race.

Jon said:

"Take heart. The reason you are seeing a lot of so-called "Christians" talking smack on this board is because their little red lights go on when someone makes a politically-incorrect remark and they are called up by their mentors, people like Lou Sheldon and Jerry Fallwell in a mass e-mailing campaign, to fight the good fight against godless homos."

Do you actually believe this, friend? I almost got angry when I read this post. I didn't recieve any e-mails (and, yes, I did check) telling me to "fight the good fight" Let me make something clear. I'm NOT against homosexuals, I would gladly be their friend. I am against HOMOSEXUALITY, which I see as totally gross and generally not beneficial to anyone. Now, of course, I am speaking only for myself on this matter, I truly don't know of anyone else recieving e-mails, but if you are going to say something like this, you might at least back it up with some fact or logic. Otherwise, it will probably be viewed as a blatant lie by all except those who would take it at face value (people who HATE Christians and extremely gullible people). Be careful with your words, they are more dangerous than you think.

Duuuuhhhhh!!!!

If someone is a pedophile then they're not exactly heterosexual anymore are they!??!

Are you sure you meant to say what you said?

"You have reinforced my belief in the validity of the teachings in the Holy Bible. My Lord and Saviour inspired these writings thousand of years ago, in which he told us you would be here today and that you would mock and ridicule us. He also told us of many other events that have come to pass. Coincidence?

I don't hate people who practice deviant lifestyles, I mourn for your loss. I am a sinner also, the only difference between a christian and an atheist is that a christian will look at his actions and change those actions or belefs that are not in harmony with God's wishes. We also understand the consequences of not doing so.

All belief systems are based on faith. I have faith in God, you have faith in yourself and man. My God promised me salvation, your faith has no such promise. Both belief systems have consequences. I am not willing to suffer the consequences of your faith.

It is also true that my beleif system limits me in the pleasures that Satan has provided this enligtened society.

God told us, thousand of years ago, that some of the churches would forgo teaching the inspired word of God and teach instead the doctrine of man. That has come to pass. God told us that good would become evil and that evil would become good. That has come to pass.

Those of you who have taken the bible out of context to justify your unholy positions do not fool anyone. If you are fooling yourself, then you are the fool.

My God does not force anyone to follow him, but he has told you what the consequense would be for those who choose not to. My God has given you freewill. You can be as sinful or ignorant as you wish to be. I don't have to pay the price for your actions, you alone will bear that burden. It is true that my God is a loving God, but he is also an enforcer of his commands. His son, also a loving God, commanded "Go and sin no more".

Excellent post Garfield. You sum up the Christian position as I see it as well, in a clear and loving way.

To Ele and anyone else that has an issue with the "majority":

The minorities are supposed to be protected, yes, but majority still rules.

Point made that slavery ended but it ended because the majority agree to make it so.

Minority rule is apparently what you want. You'd like for the many to have to live by the rules of the few and unfortunately many of the many have been caving in and going along with things they don't want for fear of being called insensitive.

I refuse to tippy-toe around the issue for fear of telling someone the truth and having them be upset by it. If something is true then it's true. Too bad.

Also, having the same rights is not the same as having special rights. The gay agenda is to be allowed special rights and to be recognized specially because of their sexually abnormal preferences. I've never heard anyone asking for special recognition because they were heterosexual.

I admire and agree with General Pace's comments. The only thing I had a problem with was that he later said he regreted voicing his opinion. God's Word says plainly that homosexuality is a sin. This nation can either to choose to follow God's will or turn its back on Him, I am afraid as a whole it has sadly done the latter.

Good post Garfield. I agree with you and have one thing to add:

The Lord said he came to fulfill the Law of Moses and the Prophets, and until heaven and earth pass away; not the smallest letter of the Law shall pass away until Christ’s mission is accomplished.

What is the Lord’s final mission? This consists of three objectives: (1) to gather up all Christians for the final battle when He returns, (2) to strike down the nations and rule them with a rod of iron and (3) to judge the non-believers according to what they thought, did and said on the last day called Judgment Day.

Look out, we're being 'raptured'!!

No, just kidding, keep the postings coming.

Where are most of you linking in from?

I am currently on active duty in the US Navy. I hold fast to the truth that open-homosexual behavior is immoral and this should be a disqualification from serving on active duty. You have to take into consideration the close quarters. I have had to work with openly gay Sailors and the results were disaterous. It saddens me to see the corrupt moral state that our Nation is in and how it reflects in our schools, government, and branches of service.

What's next? Child molestors can serve? What about the drug addicts? It's not fair to discriminate against them, right? So what if I want to give you a beating because you are annoying...we live in a free country that protects my rights as a citizen.

We really should get back to the roots that our country was built on, and the Truth that will save our country from total destruction. It's time, brothers and sisters, to stand against such oppression of True freedom! My heart goes out to the Nation.

I am currently on active duty in the US Navy. I hold fast to the truth that open-homosexual behavior is immoral and this should be a disqualification from serving on active duty. You have to take into consideration the close quarters. I have had to work with openly gay Sailors and the results were disaterous. It saddens me to see the corrupt moral state that our Nation is in and how it reflects in our schools, government, and branches of service.

What's next? Child molestors can serve? What about the drug addicts? It's not fair to discriminate against them, right? So what if I want to give you a beating because you are annoying...we live in a free country that protects my rights as a citizen.

We really should get back to the roots that our country was built on, and the Truth that will save our country from total destruction. It's time, brothers and sisters, to stand against such oppression of True freedom! My heart goes out to the Nation.

I wonder what all those Christian bigots would do if someday, the Bible that they all so frequently like to thump as “proof” of their intolerant positions on these and other issues is shown to be simply another book of ancient teachings?

After all, it was mortal MEN who decided what did (or didn’t) make the cut to be included in “the book” in the first place, was it not? And mortal men have been known to make some HUGE mistakes. Has anyone even dared to think that maybe, just maybe, they got it all wrong back then?

I’ve also found it fascinating that a religion that is supposedly firmly based on love and inclusiveness of others, harbors some of the most intolerant bigots on the face of the planet. And all one has to do is read some of the hate and vitriol spewing from the mouths and keyboards of the so-called “Christians” posting here to see that truth first hand

To JustSomeGuy:

"Do you actually believe this, friend? I almost got angry when I read this post."

I was wondering who the "YOU" in the last sentence of my post would be.

Yes, gay stuff seems fundamentally different to many people, and actually requires a little deductive reasoning to wrap our minds around the issue. Whether you are called up by your pastor, your anger, or your **conscience,** it is YOU to whom I was addressing my remarks. Thanks for identifying yourself.

Homesexuality is an immoral act. So is engaging in premarital sex. Are you going to screen the military for that too? You'd lose half of the men and women. The military is not necessarily the best grounds to lay high moral ground on, after all these people are trained to kill (thou shall not kill?). People feel they have a right to declare their judgment over others. This Pace creature is no one but a human who's engaged in immoral acts himself because he's not a saint. And yes, I am a Christian that believes homosexuality is a sin.

This message is for Scott Keller. You declare the information you use in your comments as fact. In at least two instances, it's very obvious that your definition of truth is nothing more than your opinion.

I'm so baffled by your reasoning that I'm mounting a case against you.

Exhibit A: Your comment posted on March 14 at 1:15:02 p.m. -- "Only humans have learned to force themselves to override the natural functions of their bodies to suit their perversions."

It's been known for years that members of the animal kingdom choose same-sex partners and ignore the opposite sex. This includes beetles, sheep, fruit bats, dolphins, and orangutans. This suggests that it doesn't take human force to change their very nature; homosexuality has a genetic component. Check out this link to a National Geographic article for more. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html

Exhibit B: The comment you made on March 14 at 1:37:51 p.m. -- "The minorities are supposed to be protected, yes, but majority still rules. Point made that slavery ended but it ended because the majority agree to make it so."

If you're referring to slavery in the United States, it was not ended through majority vote. Not only was the Emancipation Proclamation highly controversial in the North, it was not a law passed by Congress. It was forced through by presidential order. Here's a link to a Wikipedia article on the subject.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emancipation_Proclamation

Also, the only reason George W. Bush "won" the presidency in 2000 is because he had more electoral votes than Al Gore. Gore had the majority vote. The Constitution was constructed, in part, to protect the minority from the majority. Some people either don't know this or choose to ignore it.

Scott, if I caught a couple incongruities in your logic, it's hard to take any of your contributions to this argument seriously.

Before you bombard the public with your opinions, it'd be appreciated if you took the effort to do a little research (one would think you have Internet access) before you post your propaganda.

I agree with the general, Semper Fi!! As a Marine in the late 70's early 80's I had some homsexuals make advances towards me on the base. I did not appreciate it. Homosexuality is unnatural, and morally corrupting. God's word never changed. Sin is still sin.

NOTE to Eddie: You are only fooling your self. On Judgement day Jesus will tell you, "I never knew you, depart from me you worker of iniquity". Will you call Him a hater too!

Posted by: MJL | Mar 14, 2007 1:03:57 PM

+++
MJL:

I think it is hilarious that YOU seem to know exactly what Jesus is going to say to me on judgment day. I assume you also know when it is going to happen? You are just another self-serving hipocrite. As I said in an earlier post, straight and gay have been around since the beginning and will always be around (yes! animals are straight and gay too). There is NO GAY AGENDA. There is however a virus of individuals who are perverting religion in the name of hate to serve their own values. I am not concerned with being accepted by you and your kind. I will however fight for my rights to have the same freedoms that you and your kind have. It sickens me to think that there are so many people in this country who are hung up on what goes on between two consenting adults!!!!

I can't help but notice when I watch "To Catch A Preditor" on NBC that 99% of the sexual preditors are hetrosexual men!!!!

As far as serving in the military goes, soldiers who are afraid of "turning on" a homosexual soldier need to take a good hard look within because that is so obsurd!

I will continue to pray for your hate filled soul and I am sure as a good christian that you will continue to pray for my deviant soul.

If the Military knowingly allows Homosexuals in the Military; then it is creating the same as a prisonlike atmosphere.

The gay people want to be comfortable "safe" Wherever they are" but I ask what about our comfort, what about what is acceptable to other people?

If someone is having an affair, sex outside of marriage, or it is homosexial, it is immoral and it is wrong.

Reply to Keith:

Sir your Godophobic remarks show how little you know about the Inspired Word of God. If you would take time to read the Bible, you would discover many events that were fortold thousands of years ago and have come to pass. Does a mortal man have the ability to see the future thousands of years in advance? We can not even predict the weather 3 days in advance.

Because someone follows a set of moral guidelines does not make them a Bigot. That word has been used too frequently by those who wish to silence anyone who oppose their views. The use of that tactic is worn out and we will not allow you the continued use of it.

I would suggest to you Sir, that maybe you are the bigot. Please tell us how the "free love" movement has improved the moral foundations of this county. I would suggest to you Sir, that there is no free love. The consequences of that movement has left millions of babies without a father. Please tell us how killing our unborn children advances a civil society.

Sir, what do find repulsive about Thou shall not kill, or thy should not steal, or honor your mother and father, or any of the other commandments? Sir, please tell us how ignoring those simple moral principles will advance society. You see Sir, there is a difference in following a set of moral principles and just following our base animal instincts. Sir, I would suggest that you actually read the bible for yourself. It could be a life changing experience.

WHY IS THAT EVERYONE ELSE IS ALLOWED TO VOICE THIER OPINIONS-----""BUT"" CHRISTIANS CAN'T!!

Posted by: TheReamer | Mar 14, 2007 1:07:27 PM

Let's see, hmmmm...perhaps because So called "Christians" in history have been responsible for some of the worst human rights abuses ever known by man. Christianity's track record and credibility have to seriously be called into account.

How many native civilizations here in the Americas were wiped out by Christian Love and Christian swords; all in the name of Witnessing The Word to the heathen. So called Witch Trials, Auto-de Fe, The Inquisition. So and so on..

"Christians" were responsible for keeping the lower classes in Europe illiterate and fearful; one could only get an education if one joined the church. Christianity also blamed the Black Death on the evil of sin while calling people heretics for bathing; stating it invited the Devil into one's body. Church sanctioned the killing of cats by the millions because of their supposed association with witchcraft and the Devil which caused the rat population to skyrocket. As a result of removing feline predators thereby spreading bubonic plague.

So why should so called "pseudo-Christians" not be allowed to voice your opinions, because when fake-Christians do voice their "opinions", innocent people end up getting hurt and even murdered.

Pseudo-Christians only bring fear and death.

I ask myself, would Jesus do thus?

I am a retired USAF and have served the Military for 21 years, during WW2 and the Korean War, and I am 100% behind General Porter Pace's views on homosexuals in the armed services. I strongly disagree with the views of Sen. John Warners
views.

Posted by Clyde A.Johnson/Mar, 14/2007 2:56 pm.

to Keith;
Sorry about your luck but the bible has the subject of countless people who tried to disprove it. In the end it has been proven the most accurate book of our times.
You're right there a lot of christian bigots, just as there are a lot of homosexual bigots, and countless others who fall into this catagory. But in the end truth is truth and you can call people names and insult them, but the truth does not change.

Homosexuality is right down in the moral gutter with bestiality, adultery, pedophilia and necrophilia. It's a filthy life style for any human to adopt. It is absolutely WRONG.

Keith, have you ever dared to think that maybe, just maybe, most people have it all wrong now? Evolution has done a pretty fair job of tearing virtues to ground. It creates an attitude of "anything that doesn't help me survive doesn't matter." This throws all kinds of things, things that people need to live in harmony, straight out the window. Honesty? Who needs it? Integrity? Ha! Humility? Honor? Sportsmanship? Chivalry? The list goes on forever, and evolution is still a highly questionable theory!

I was reading Drudge the other week, and I read about two 6th graders having sex in class, while the teacher was there! What on earth has happened here? I see people commenting about the world's birthrate, citing homosexuality as a solution. I see things like the flames erupting over abortion and the like. ALL of this could be solved if sex were valued at more than just a thrill ride. But, of course, that's a Christian moral, isn't it? And that makes it officially tabu to those who don't want to be seen as Christian, doesn't it? You don't realize that this affects EVERYONE, and it is having a negative affect. But, of course, thinking of the other person doesn't help you along the chain of evolution, does it? That's also a value supported by Christianity.

The point is, a great deal of this could be solved/helped by Christian values, but people just don't want our help. They'd rather try to solve it by their own means, and ignore the silly people over there who believe in God, I suppose.

And yet, you accuse us of blindly following our religion, then you say we don't practice what we preach? I've already stated, truthfully, that I would willingly accept a homosexual as a friend. That doesn't mean that I approve of homosexuality, it means that I would hope they would come to me with their problems, any problems, so that I could help.

You are a long way from understanding us, friend, but we are still doing our best to help everyone in general.

To Keith and all the other "ultra-tolerant, superior elitists”
Obviously you do not see your own hatred and bigotry, especially when it comes to your vehement hatred of Christians, the Bible, and the God of the Bible. You have been reading too much Dan Brown and not enough real history when it comes to the early church fathers. There is not enough time here to get into such topics as textural criticism, the preponderance of physical texts and such. We can’t even get into deeper topics such as inspiration, God’s nature or truth. What I leave you all with is this, the Bible was written on three continents, by approx 39 different divinely inspired authors, written in three languages over 1500 years. No other book can make this claim. Even higher criticism has to bow to the fact that the sixty-six books that make up this one book all come together to make one complete whole without any major controversies in scope, theme or truth. Most importantly the Bible has the ability to dynamically change lives.
Keith, you hope that one day it will be “proved” the Bible is just a book written by religious kooks so that those who believe in it will be chastised for belief in such mythology. If such proof never comes, and the Bible is true, where will that leave ones such as yourself on the Day of Judgment? I challenge you, read the Bible for yourself, read it from Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21. Prove it wrong if you can.

Christians are the new Dodo bird generation of the time. Just reading this article should tell all Christians, especially in Virginia, of all walks that they should vote Warner out of office, but they won't because they are cowardly and stupid. Pace was right-on about homosexuals, then what does he do?,......he backs down because of the gay groups and a treasonous press who wants all the military dead to start with. All you cowards out there who claim your Christain and do nothing deserve to have a big p_ _ _ k shoved up your A_ _!!!!! These people (homosexuals) are stealing our way of life, they are stealing our children, both mind and body, and they are stealing and breaking down the very pillars that have given you your freedom. They are doing this because you are letting them. If you are a Christian and you vote for people who are immoral (Bill and Hillary Clinton, Jullianne, McCain, etc) and claim they are for abortion, gay rights, gay marriages, illigal immigration, diversity, tolerance, multi-culturalism and all the other words you dumb Christians are swallowing hook line and sinker, then you deserve to lose your children, your lives, and the freedom you are about to lose and don't even know it because you are all to stupid to see what is happening in this country because of your stupidity, and cowardice,.......better stand up for Christ now, fight back for the providence he gave you because he won't stand up for you for being a coward and letting evil defeat you because your a bunch of stupid, cowardly, fools.

gay behaviour is immoral

I was encouraged by General Pace's comment. Homosexuality IS immoral. It's good to know that there is at least one good man in Washington D.C.; maybe even a few good men.

DMS: CamPen,3rdMarDiv,HdqtrsUSMC,4thAmTracs,HQ6thDist

In this country, Pace has the same right to express his personal opinions as everyone else, including those who hold alternative personal opinions. As an active duty military member, however, it would be out of line for him to clearly, publicly, and officially contradict duly authorized policies or official governmental/military operations statements of those upline of him in the chain of command. Those demanding some kind of official disciplinary action for Pace need to produce documentation of duly authorized governmental/military policies or operations statements (not just personal opinions) affirming the morality of homosexuality and/or homosexual behaviors. Better still would be to document the multitude of properly controlled research studies indicating that open, homosexual conduct in the armed forces has either a neutral or beneficial effect on unit cohesion, order & discipline, morale, esprit de corps, and other factors of interest to a well functioning military. Can't find such data? Then I think we have much ado about nothing and should leave Pace alone to do his job.

Homosexual acts and thoughts are immoral. Homosexuality should be purged from American society. Ideals are goodness and fidelity. Homosexuality is a parasitic sickness. Deviancy is sign post of the internal weakness of our culture.

Many of the arguments posted about gays and their lifestyle choices leave out some facts, such as (1) Homosexuals of both sexes remain fourteen times more likely to attempt suicide than heterosexuals and 3½ times more likely to commit suicide successfully (thirty years ago, this propensity toward suicide was attributed to social rejection, but the numbers have remained largely stable since then despite far greater public acceptance, indeed it even appears to be trendy in certain cities), (2) study after study shows that homosexuals have much higher rates of interpersonal maladjustment, depression, conduct disorder, childhood abuse (both sexual and violent), domestic violence, alcohol or drug abuse, anxiety, and dependency on psychiatric care than heterosexuals, (3) life expectancy of homosexual men was only forty-eight years before the AIDS virus came on the scene, and it is now down to thirty-eight (only 2 percent of homosexual men live past age sixty-five), (4) male homosexuals are prone to cancer (especially anal cancer, which is almost unheard-of in male heterosexuals) and various sexually transmitted diseases, including urethritis, laryngitis, prostatitis, hepatitis A and B, syphilis, gonorrhea, chlamydia, herpes, and genital warts (which are caused by the human papilloma virus, which also causes genital cancers), and (5) Homosexuals of both sexes have high rates of drug abuse, including cocaine, marijuana, LSD and other psychedelics, barbiturates, and amyl nitrate. Male homosexuals are particularly prone to develop sexually transmitted diseases, in part because of the high degree of promiscuity displayed by male homosexuals. One study in San Francisco showed that 43 percent of male homosexuals had had more than 500 sexual partners. Seventy-nine percent of their sexual partners were strangers. Only 3 percent had had fewer than ten sexual partners.

Pace is correct. Warner is a sellout. Serve with someone (enlisted) who's banging an officer (females) and see how it upsets morale. No one was out to get them. They were just in-our-faces all the time. Enlisted discharged. Officer shipped off to parts unknown. It was a disgusting affair.

"Duuuuhhhhh!!!!

If someone is a pedophile then they're not exactly heterosexual anymore are they!??!

Are you sure you meant to say what you said?

Posted by: Scott Keller | Mar 14, 2007 1:23:53 PM"

Scott,

Some male pedophiles prey on boys, some on girls. Ditto female
pedophiles, some on boys some on girls.

It's a crime either way, because the child has not reached the age of consent.

Psychologists agree that the urge to have sex with children is a distinct psycho-sexual mechanism than a normal adult urge to have sex with another adult, regardless of the gender involved.

Now, I assume you are a straight male. You may really really want to have sex with your wife or girlfriend or the hottie tending bar, but you probably have a normal reaction against having sex with a female child. (That's good! Me too!!)

Same holds true for gay people.

OK! Discuss!

*******************

Where are you people checking in from?
Dobson or Haggard must be pulling your chains.

The US is a DEAD society. Leave while you still can if you care about your own salvation. Just like Sodom and Gomorrah, the US is being judged by God. I would not want to remain in the Great SATAN anymore.

The people against God WILL be judged accordingly, unfortunately it will be too late for them to repent of their EVIL and WICKED ways.

Go ahead and engage in HOMOSEXUALITY and see what death it brings upon yourselves.

The US is a LOST cause.

Here is an alternative posit, or pondering, if you will, from a modern day Jesus.

(JD, I know I know. It's for these 'replacement killers')

(John Lennon)

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

To all,

Please consider the irony of a Warrior preaching about morality. War is clearly a sin. Thou shalt not kill IS one of the Ten Commandments, gay people shall be castigated is not.

Love thy neighbor as thyself.

That is the fundamental basis for morality. Everything else is simply windowdressing.

Linda,

I doubt each and every assertion in your post, yet you have not provided any documentation to back it up. If you are going to site statistics as facts, you must back up those claims with documenation of how the information was arrived at and who gathered it.

This line particularly jumps off the page:

"One study in San Francisco showed that 43 percent of male homosexuals had had more than 500 sexual partners."

Prove it. Otherwise, you are simply spouting non-sense and trying to pass it off as fact.

C.Morris.

You are LOST.

There IS a HEAVEN and there IS a HELL.

You do nothing but propagate the Sinfulness of the lost.

The WOLD will NEVER be as one. What do you think the battle is about? It's a Spiritial war. Either accept it, and accept GOD, or accept HIS judgement and live eternally in the lake of fire.

What YOU and John Lennnon esposed is called HUMANISM. It is the epitome of rejection of God and Jesus Christ.

Sorry to reveal, Jon Lennon is in HEll today...and with your BS, you will be too.

REPENT AMERICA.

REPENT.

Bryan,

This line particularly jumps off the page:

"War is clearly a sin."

To this I simply say, "Prove it. Otherwise, you are simply spouting non-sense and trying to pass it off as fact."

Right back at you!

"What YOU and John Lennnon esposed is called HUMANISM. It is the epitome of rejection of God and Jesus Christ.
Sorry to reveal, Jon Lennon is in HEll today...and with your BS, you will be too.
REPENT AMERICA.
REPENT.
Posted by: Honorable One | Mar 14, 2007 4:32:36 PM"

This is John E gaslighting me, right?

****************

"To this I simply say, "Prove it. Otherwise, you are simply spouting non-sense and trying to pass it off as fact."
Right back at you!
Posted by: Disdains Meretriciousness | Mar 14, 2007 5:09:00 PM"

Dude,

Modern war itself is a crime. Don't you know that?
You understand what the term 'collateral damage' really means, don't you?

In closing, regarding your posting;
✂ the ☁, go to ebay and $ a ❤, or at the very least $ a ❥, find a little ☮, learn about ☪ so that you can be a better ✟.

U2, Honorable One.

"This line particularly jumps off the page:

"War is clearly a sin."

To this I simply say, "Prove it. Otherwise, you are simply spouting non-sense and trying to pass it off as fact."

Right back at you!"
Posted by: Disdains Meretriciousness | Mar 14, 2007 5:09:00 PM

From the Ten Commandments:
"6 You shall not murder."

I'm not sure what is equivical about this statement. I can't "prove" that murder is a sin, that's impossible. I can prove that it is one of the Ten Commandments, so if you are going to go picking and choosing which ones to follow, perhaps you should start with the big ones and then work your way down.

War involves the murder, albeit sometimes unintentionally, of civilians. The 6th Commandment says that murder is a sin. Ergo, war is a sin. Maybe you could show me where there are Biblical exemptions from the Commandment of Thou Shalt Not Kill.

My my, it appears I HAVE now stirred up the proverbial hornet’s nest!

But, at least, I got some of you to thinking (rather than simply spouting more dogma) which was the goal.

As for the Bible having been around for thousands of years, need I remind you all that none of us were present when it was actually written? True, it HAS been passed down from “generation to generation”, but most of that transmission has been by word of mouth, and we all know how wonderfully accurate THAT form of transmission is, now don’t we?

So many other things that generations before us have taken “for granted” have later proven to be quite false. For example, for centuries, everyone was convinced the Earth was flat and that we were also the center of the Universe. Both of these “truths” have now proven to be quite false. In fact, those who pushed such ideas in their day were persecuted no end (some were actually put to death!) by none other than....“the Church”.

So much for "inclusion" and "tolerance", eh?

All I am suggesting here is for people to approach their faith with a bit more skepticism because the dogma that many of you are still obsessively spouting right now about homosexuality might someday turn out to be little more than “flat Earth” lies that were made up by self-serving, power hungry HUMANS (trying, perhaps to cover up (or atone for) their OWN homosexuality) centuries ago.

Oh...and, just so you know, I HAVE read the Bible...from cover to cover...not once, but several times!

Honorable One (HO),

I just heard from God and she's pissed that YOU"RE PASSING JUDGEMENT.

Bryan,

You say that war is sin, because the 6th Commandments - "Thou Shalt not Murder".

Dude there is a huge difference between murder and killing. Please go read your Bible do you not see that God Himself told Joshua to go into Jericho and destroy it and kill all the people. There are several references in the Bible where God tells His people to kill those who practice evil. There are even some instances where God says kill every man, woman and child when they went to war. God knows what He is talking about and His people did not question what He told them to do. Do you think just because they killed people it was murder. Absolutely not, God told them to do it, and it was Him using His people to inact His judgement on a wicked nation. By the same token God I believe clearly told President Bush to invade Iraq, to bring justice to that nation. God did not tell him to kill women and children, but war is ugly and there will always be causalities of war. But that does not make it murder. Go read your Bible and understand that killing and murder are not even the same thing.

As far as the other clowns that continue to say that homosexuaility is not even one of the 10 commandments, you too are deceived. Thou shalt not commit Adultry. What in the world do you think adultry is? Sex outside of marriage, and even a higher standard that Jesus gave in the Sermon on the Mount. Adultry is even lusting in our hearts. We are all guilty of it, but it does not make it okay to practice it. I think adultry is just as wrong as homosexuality and God loves the adulter and pedophile just as much as He loves the homosexual, but it is still sin and God in His righteousness will judge that sin. If you do not have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ you will spend eternity in the Lake of Fire. Not my words, but Jesus himself said it.

You people can run around saying there is no God, but you will be judged by your own words. God could care less whether you think He exists. He does! Also there is only one way to heaven, not thru allah or buddah but only through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. There is no other way! Sorry again not my rule but God's. But he loves you so much he died for you, the choice is up to you.

WOW!!! The culture war is raging on. I thought I was the only one OUTRAGED over John Warner's comments. I called every branch office in VA, yesterday, to voice my disgust over his comments. From one end of the state to the other they heard my voice. Stand Strong General Pace!! The Lord is with you and so are all the rest of normal, moral Americans. Here is where the GOP needs to GET A CLUE.....John Warner seems to be nothing but a RINO , now, those comments he made. I wish someone would tell the LOG CABIN BOYS to take the logs in their back sides and move across the aisle to the DEMS where they belong. I was one of those AMericans that had reached my tipping/boiling point over the Foley Fiasco. I live in Illinois...(Denny Hastert) in the district of John Shimkus...so I was ESPECIALLY UPSET about the Foley fallout. And I let everyone in Washington and Illinois know it. But here again...same issue...THANK YOU GENERAL PACE FOR SAYING WHAT NEEDS TO BE SAID. We're trying to win a war here, and the last thing we need is men attracted to men in combat. I don't even like woman in combat...but that is another topic for another day.

One last point......if the Republicans do not GET A CLUE they will lose in '08 because the conservative Christian base is A) not stupid but quite well informed and B) hopping mad with our leadership
so.....may I suggest.....my "dream candidate".........

on abortion: someone like ALan Keyes
on the borders: someone like Tom Tancredo
on Supreme Court/Judiciary: someone like Roy Moore (and yes we want the 10 commandment monument taken out of the closet!!!)
on the survival of this nation at any cost: someone like MICHAEL SAVAGE.

Just dreaming, but if you can show me a MAN, like that, he'll have my vote!!!

Mrs. Beckman

This is a quote DIRECTLY from the Bible-

I understand this is controversial, but censored? God forbid!

The context is the Apostle Paul is writing a letter to the Church in Rome and it is speaking of the Godlessness, unbelieving and unrightous acts of the Gentiles.

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith-

Romans
Chapter 1:
v26. "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

v27. And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

v28. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a mind void of judgement, to do those things which are not convenient;

v29. Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

v30. Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

v31. Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful;

v32. Who knowing the judgement of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but consent with them that do them."

"C.Morris.

You are LOST.

There IS a HEAVEN and there IS a HELL.

You do nothing but propagate the Sinfulness of the lost.

The WOLD will NEVER be as one. What do you think the battle is about? It's a Spiritial war. Either accept it, and accept GOD, or accept HIS judgement and live eternally in the lake of fire.

Posted by: Honorable One | Mar 14, 2007 4:30:03 PM"

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