BAGHDAD - Five U.S. military personnel were killed over the weekend in Iraq, including three by a roadside bomb in Baghdad, the military said Monday, pushing the American death toll past 100 in the deadliest month so far this year.

The Bush/Cheney surge is clearly working-for the insurgents.I ask all RWW's (right wing wackos), how many more Americans do you want see killed refereeing a Civil War?

As usual the Leftists, Bush haters, etc. twist and distort to fit their own twisted and distorted view of reality.

The "Mission Accomplished" banner was all about the removal of Hussein and defeating the Iraqi military. Even during that speech, Bush said the road would be long, the fight difficult.

Was Hussein brought down? Yes.
Is there a new government, and a democratically elected government in its place? Yes.
Was the Iraqi military defeated? Yes.

Mission Accomplished.

Have Al Qaeda terrorists, origjnally lead by Al Zarquawi made things difficult in Iraq through sectarian strife? Yes.
Is there a long way to go yet? Yes.
Must the terrorists be defeated and a chance for the Iraqi government to grow and strengthen? Yes.
Will it be easy? No.

Only the most ignorant would still see the US in Iraq forever, and for some reason, this administration doesn't get it, they will forever keep America in debt to foreign countries to make a statement that will mean nothing.

If we are winning the war, then what's the objection to a pull out starting 8 months from now? I mean, if we're winning ...

Want a good bill? Try this one, Mr. President.
WE drop all the pork, give you all the money you asked for and set a time for the troops to start coming home. Take it or leave it, no further debate. It's called "The American People's bill" Otherwise, it will be another Korea with our being there for 50 years or so.
The "desasterous consequences" Bush is afraid of if we leave is what we see happening now.
Let the Iraqi's defend themselves. We gave them 4 years, $500 billion, and 3300 lives plus all the injured.We engineered a cival war for them and nothing more. Dubya doesn't seem to be saying,
"Bring it on" anymore.

Re: Tony

How awkward.

you want to support the player, but it's wrong to support the team.

Question, whatever happened to the focus being on 9/11 and resolve and getting those that were responsible for 9/11 since that was an ACTUAL attack and not a threat we PERCEIVED????

I keep hearing the admin try and hit American's ego with bully statements like "Quit", "Walk Away", "Cut and Run", but they just can't seem to find the right one.

Lets say we stay until Iraq is supposedly stabilized. What represents a stabilized Iraq for our troops to come home? I haven't heard that defined in DETAIL and not just "an Iraq that can govern itself". Also who is to say the insurgents won't just be sitting back waiting for that time too like they claim for definite withdrawal date???

I still remember the smoke coming from the Pentagon, walking the mall to hunt down what we were hearing about smaller planes with terrorist.

When I look at the news I ask myself in comparison, why are we in Iraq and not Pakistan like Bush claimed he would go where the terrorist go. It is interesting how we will do military maneuvers with countries without WMD, but won't with those that do. This should have been our signal that Iraq wasn't as much a threat as was made out to be.

Yet Bin Laden remains free and relaxing in the Sun in Pakistan because we are wasting our money and lives in Iraq when we should have "stayed the course" in getting Bin Laden.

Support your troops! BRING THEM HOME! NOW!

2 points:
1. I am happy that Tony Snow is able to access therapy available to the rich, powerful and well-insured Americans. Most uninsured or poorly insured amongst us would either die of the disease or the ensuing bankrupcy. But hey, that is the price of the absurd American medical system some like to call a free market system, free to live or die based on wealth and power.
2. The extraordinary efforts to protect and prolong Tony' s life are wonderful to read about. The callousness with which thousands of American soldiers lives are put at risk to die or have their lives crippled by injuries is an interesting contrast. Add to that the hundreds of thousands of Iraqui lives that have been ended or ruined or deemed collateral damge is beyond comprehension.
I wish Tony's single life well. I wish there was as much attention paid to the other lives his President has deemed expendable in his continous effort to save face and ruin America economically, militarily and diplomatically.

President Bush should shock the world and sign the war spending bill and let the liberals deal with the consequences. Afer all, he did his best and failed.

The Democtatic majority and media should be given the opportunity to govern the war on terror after our troups leave Iraq. I wonder how effective and tough Nancy and Harry will be under real pressure? Plus the next 9/11 type of disaster that is sure to come.

Jack Grollo

What does "winning in Iraq mean"?

How can we possibly "lose" in Iraq if we don't know what "winning" means?

We won the "war" a long time ago, ie Mission Accomplished, we are now losing the peace.

Heckova job Chimpy!

Please keep Tony Snow and Mrs. Edwards and anyone else you know who has cancer in your thoughts and prayers. Nearly every family is touched by cancer at one time or another, just as our family has. It is a tough battle and the people involved, as Mr. Snow said, need every bit of support they can get.

You'd just been through cancer therapy and know how important life is. You however have not changed your position on this crazy war even though in your heart, it is all wrong. Have you not learned from your cancer? Must we continue to kill people for Bush to save his face of having to admit that HE MADE A MISTAKE in Iraq. If I had any pride left, I would step down and quit that "glorified" position of White House press secretary. You still think it's a game, killing people, huh?

Yeah, Tony.

You are incredibly lucky.

Unlike those 3000 dead soldiers you characterized as just "a number."

Conservatives are always so tough with others' lives, but whimper like little girls when their own lives are on the line.

GREAT,TONY. WE ADMIRE AND RESPECT AND LOVE YOU. KEEP UP THE GOOD FIGHT.

You would think that when someone faces death like Mr. Snow, he would try to make things right in case of the worst. Be HUMAN enough and surprise the world. . . call this administration out for the atrocities it has committed and free yourself of these lies that have brought the world to the brink. I fear one more step (Iran) and we will pass the point of no return.

Mr. Snow,
I directly challenge your claim "The only way to lose the war is to walk away from it…"

Compare this to your fight with Cancer. Is walking away from it the only way to lose that "war?"

Of course not. And we can find many ways to lose the war in Iraq. In fact and unfortunately, there may be no way to win either battle.

In the case of your cancer, the gains from winning are obvious and I encourage you to persevere.

In the case of Iraq, I'm not even sure what the gains to the country are. We certainly haven't improved our lot vis-a-vis Iraq, our safety and world stability. Where do we go from here?

There are infinite ways to lose a war, but leaving is the only way to end a war. This is not about winning or losing, this is about keeping the war economy alive for those that profit. There were 5000 members of alqueada when the towers fell, there are now 50,000 dead Iraqis and 50,000 living members of alqueada. Losing a war 101.

"The only way to lose the war is to walk away from it." - Tony Snow

"What a huge, stinking dishonest load of crap." - Me

The only way to lose this war is to stay and fight. Tony Snow is the kind of gambler who stays at the table until the bank account is cleaned out, the house is in hock and the car belongs to the casino. Give it up, Tony. Walk away from the table. This war has been over since Day One. It was a STUPID IDEA. The guy you work for is a MORON.

Jack Grollo said:

"The Democtatic (sic) majority and media should be given the opportunity to govern the war on terror after our troups (sic) leave Iraq. I wonder how effective and tough Nancy and Harry will be under real pressure? Plus the next 9/11 type of disaster that is sure to come."

Well Jack, you mention a war on terror and exactly why are we focusing our efforts on a country that NEVER attacked us? Iraq had NOTHING to do with terrorist acts that occurred on our soil. We aren't fighting a war on terror. We stopped doing that once we decided to invade a country for no real good reason.

More empty thoughts from the Loony Left.

Hey Leon, thanks for your concern about Tony's health. You know, my mom isn't rich. Very typically middle class, in fact. And you know what? She had a benign brain tumor removed. Twice she has had breast cancer, with the removal of one breast. Last year she was diagnosed with bone cancer where her right hip was replaced (the left hip was replaced a few years sgo). She is now fighting that latest round of cancer and for now, winning that fight.

Despite not being rich and powerful, she's had pretty good care and most recently the doctor told while no guarantees she is getting the best and latest treatments possible, which is why she isn't losing her hair with her latest rounds of chemo.

And, you know what? While all these medical problems certainly have weighed on her mentally and emotionally, she has fought them and has never quit any fight, despite tough odds, difficult medical treatments, surgeries, recuperations, rehab, weekly doctor visits, etc.

You see not fighting guarantees the cancer will win.Fighting gives her a fighting chance of surviving and living more years than she would if she didn't fight.

Maybe there is a lesson there for your Loony Lefters???

John D,

I'm sorry about your mom.

But dude you need to hear some hard truths. Ones parents preceding us is the natural order of things.

Having your kid or other young loved one killed in the disaster that is Iraq isn't.

As usual the Leftists, Bush haters, etc. twist and distort to fit their own twisted and distorted view of reality.
Golly John D. Ever wonder why people hate Bush? Most presidents are aware of the American people and there wishes. This one does not read or pay attention to the media at all or if he does it is only Fox News or Rush Limbough. He is suppose to work and listen to all the people and not just his crooked advisors. He is just another employee to Americans, A poor one I must admit, but an employee just the same. He is guilty of killing our servicemen and women and causing injury to thousands, name on company that can get away with that without being sued to hell and back? That goes for the rest of the country for looting our tax dollars for a war that can't be justified.

Ahh, finally John D is here to help me out and tell me how to beat and kill off all the terrorists so we can have our much deserved world peace!

"Must the terrorists be defeated and a chance for the Iraqi government to grow and strengthen? Yes.
Will it be easy? No."

Since you *know* it wont be easy you must *know* what needs to be done. How will we know when we have *beaten down* all those dang terrorists? How does the Iraqi government 'grow and strengthen' when its very members are more loyal to their respective tribes than the country as a whole?

Your royal Loonyness, I await your solutions and of course, the infamous Excel spreadsheet that has the list of all terrorists so we can pick them off one by one! Then we win!

And in all seriousness, sorry to hear about your mom, power to her as I have 2 cases of cancer in my family as we speak.
And there IS a lesson that YOU should take. Want to fight something evil? Find the specific culprit (cancer) outline a SPECIFIC plan of attack (best treatments) and be willing to try other options and listen to other professionals if the original plan doesn't work (i.e. be willing to change your mind and actions based on new information).
And it still might not be enough. When its just gone too far and has become untreatable, you do your best to get your house in order, tell those you love you love them, and stop causing yourself so much pain for a cause that cant be stopped at this time.

Terrorism can be like cancer. It can look like one tumor and you attack that tumor with gusto only to realize it had already broken and spread. You continue to battle, but for every tumor defeated two more pop up. Perhaps in the future there will be universal cure for cancer. Perhaps in the future the human race will drop the macho/religious/stubborn "my way or the highway, we're right and yer goin to hell" mindset and defeat terrorism. But the lesson learned is cancer cant always be defeated by blasting it with chemo, and terrorism CERTAINLY can not be defeated by dropping bombs and checking names off a spreadsheet.

You and I will continue to spar in the Swamp, but as just another human, all the best to your mother.

John D: Sorry about your Mom. Nice how you could weave her troubles into a maudlin, predictable tale about staying the course, though.

Here's one for you:

My Dad started his own business a few years back. At first, like all new businesses, he struggled to stay afloat. Eventually, he started to see a little progress. It didn't last long, however, and after a few particularly tough months, my folks decided to take out a second mortgage on their house in order to make it through. The bank loaned him some money too--at a fairly high interest rate. And he maxed out all of their credit cards and sold all of their investments. He just kept saying, "I'm sure I can make this work. I just need a little more time."

Eventually, no matter what he did and no matter how badly he wanted to succeed, things just didn't work out. Maybe he isn't a very good businessman. Or maybe his original business model was flawed. Whatever the cause, my parents lost everything, and they now live in the Poor House. My Dad just keeps saying, "Why did I sink everything into that business when it was clearly not working? I guess my pride and hubris got in the way of my common sense."

My Dad has found some consolation over the years in the fact that our current president failed horribly at THREE businesses (Arbusto, Spectrum Seven, and Harken Energy) before finally finding his feet as a successful Commander In Chief and Wartime President. My Dad likes to say: "George W. Bush is living proof that with enough money, some creative fibbing and a little influence where it counts, even an incompetent moron can go on to become President of the United States of America."

Doesn't that story just bring a tear to your eye?

John D.

Wow, you really missed the point of Leon’s comments. He wasn’t suggesting that Tony Snow give up on his health, rather he was pointing out the stark contrast between his attitude toward his own life and the lives of U.S. solders. DUH!!! I wish your mom the best of luck.

If you kill Iraquis, you commit murder. No Iraquis attacked us on 911, and there were no wmd either. These were lies for the Bush administration to get us into Iraq and usurp their oil thru Haliburton, Exxon, BP, and Conico oil. No democracy is set up at gunpoint. No democracy is setup by threat of not providing food and water... if they did not vote.
Killing innocent Iraquis only increases the number of terrorists. Friends, family members, and others who see the injustice will join the other side against us, while we bankrupt ourselves financially and morally. In short, we increase, not decrase our enemies. The best way to stop terrorism is to ask what we have done to them to offend them and then stop doing it. Ask why did they attack us? The answer is: 15 of the 19 terrorists attacked us becouse we backed King Faad of Saudia Arabia. We gave him money and weapors for his cheap oil. He used his wealth and power to kill and toture his citizens, throw them in jail and many other atrocities. That is why they attacked us. We would do the same if some other country setup a dictatorship over us.

Ted Langs Sr., please you need to deal with substance and reality and not mish mash.

There are no crooked advisors as much as the Loony Left wants there to be.
You can't always govern by the polls. Just remember, just a couple of years ago, those poll numbers were working against you.
Bush is not killing our servicemen and women.
A war that can't be justified? Try telling that to the people who have lost their lives to terrorists and the regimes that support terrorists.

Was our 46-day bombing campaign on a sovereign Bosnia not justified?
Was our removal of Milosovic not justified?
Is not doing anyting about the genocide on Rwanda justified?
Or what about the UN's inaction (despite pleas by the U.S. to do something) in Darfur? Is that deaf ear justified?

John D.

Wow, you really missed the point of Leon’s comments. He wasn’t suggesting that Tony Snow give up on his health, rather he was pointing out the stark contrast between his attitude toward his own life and the lives of U.S. solders. DUH!!! I wish your mom the best of luck.

Since Tony Snow beleives in the war in Iraq so much, he should volunteer to take the place of some young soldier in Iraq. Tony Snow is going to die anyway as God has struck him down with cancer.

Was Hussein responsible for 9/11? No.
Is there a new government, and a democratically elected government in its place that is working? No.
Was the Iraqi military defeated? Some of it was, then the rest was disbanded and is now fighting us.

Nothing Accomplished.

Did Al Qaeda exist before the US made it up? No.
Do the iraqis want us out of Iraq? Yes.
Must the terrorists be defeated and a chance for the Iraqi government to grow and strengthen? The US just de-prioritized training the troops. Now who's saying we lost?
Will doing the right thing and ending this war be easy? No.

Once again the warmongers paint the whole picture as simply a matter of resolve. How disingenuous. If we had listened to this administration we'd still be in Vietnam.

Actually, the wing-nut pundits claim we could have won that war too, if only we hadn't "cut and run". Still, in either case, the definition of just what we would have won remains elusive.

Like Vietnam, it's not the leaving that will weaken us, but rather an indefinite employment with no clear objective. We knew this to be the case pre-Vietnam and, except for a few delusion neocons, we knew this to be the case before Bush plunged us into the current debacle.

"Indochina is devoid of decisive military objectives and the allocation of more than token US armed forces in Indochina would be a serious diversion of limited US capabilities."[1] -- Joint Chiefs of Staff, 26 May 1954

Seems we never learn. Ike was right. The vaunted Military Industrial Complex, and their enablers, never saw a war it didn't like. For a good Vietnam retrospective take a look at this article. Here's a paragraph from the article with questions that could just as easily be applied to the current debacle:

Was the war a noble cause, a crime, or simply a monumental strategic mistake? Did 58,000 Americans die in vain? What was the cause and nature of the conflict? Was US intervention justified? Was it necessary to Americanize the war? What were the causes of US defeat? Was the United States in fact defeated?---Vietnam in Retrospect: Could We Have Won?, Jeffrey Record

http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usawc/parameters/96winter/record.htm

john d, unless you're posting from Iraq, I could care less what you think.

Jack,

Just exactly whose watch did 9/11 occur on? Oh yeah, Chimpy-McFlight Suit's watch. And, as proven by the Chimp's very own words: Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11!

If we stay in Iraq and "win," what is it that we win?
If we walk away, what is it that we lose?
I wonder what an intelligent President could have done with the $ 500 billion this fiasco has cost?
We "lost" when we walked away from Viet Nam but what did we lose? Viet Nam is now a viable
Country, complete with diplomatic relations with the U.S. and they live under communisum. So what??? They are no longer at war because WE JUST WALKED AWAY! Get it???..................duh

It is amazing to me that one so articulate, apparently educated and informed, as is Tony Snow, is not aware of all the lifes that the Bush administration has either destroyed or maimed for life. Could it be that he knows and doesn't care ?.

Only a fool chooses to believe the war can be won. Not while we are there, and not with my children.

Leon,

Perhaps we should emulate the Canadian socialist health care system where patients with cancer have to wait 5 weeks minimum to receive chemo treatment irregardless of there being proletariat or bourgeoisie. That seems much more fair.

American need to stay in Iraq, until the oil is gone. We can't leave the oil field unattended, Iraq is ideally located in the middle of the oil fields, with American troop secure the oil supply, our national interest will truly be served. Can anyone image we have no oil in the country? Or the oil supply be threatened? Thinking this way (or just spell out the real reason for Iraq war), will make the reasoning much easier, the lives lost there can translated into real value.

mission accomplished? i'd say that is a triumphant "yes!". the administration's goal of increasing state power while enriching its friends in the defense industry has been a massive success.

i think it's naive to think that this quagmire was ever conceived in the best interests of anyone outside of the government-loving power elite.

Some people understand the severity of the neo Jihadist threat. Those folks tend to support the pres, not because he's doing such a great job, but because the Muslims are not-so-secretly ramping up their war machine world wide. This threat to democracy has a firm grasp on the middle east, Indonesia, and much of Europe. Sharia law is already an issue in Australia, of all places. They set the Islamo facists straight real quick.

How many partisan bush haters would like "their" daughters to be forced to live under sharia law? The idiots hate bush so much, they'd sacrifice their own family.

When will Bush be sent to the front line?

"You know… we're fighting the war. The only way to lose the war is to walk away from it…"

Hmm... Since we haven't walked away from the war, we must have won it!

Hip hip hooray... Bring the victorious troops home for the ticker tape parade.

Thanks, Tony for setting this thing straight.

Bush/Cheney are just trying to get to the finish line and dump their disaster on the next President, a Democrat.

These guys are so compassionate,they're a joke.

People like Little Johnny Freon are also just petrified to admit they have backed a LOSER.

As more Americans get blown up,they just stick to the company line,true Christians.

This has nothing to do with whether you're a conservative or liberal.

This has to do with just sheer intelligence. Think for yourselves for a change rather than playing into what your party is telling you.

The leaders of our country have spent $124 billion on fighting this "war," another $30 billion on failed reconstruction efforts, and are straining military resources. We have no definition of "winning" this "war," mostly because the "enemy" is not even a body of people or an organization, but instead more like social criminals that are trying to incite a civil war. We're worried about Iran's influence on Iraq if we were to leave, and yet that is already playing right into their hands (i.e. the longer we stay, the more discontent the Iraqi people will probably endure).

The money alone is attrocious. We have utterly wasted hundreds of billions of dollars, at a time when funds in research and education are at an all-time low. When American industry is suffering against those outside of our shores. When the future of America is in jeopardy because of unwise spending, something that conservatives should be completely up-in-arms against.

And that's ignoring the idea behind the Bush administration's ridiculous "sound-good" logic. You don't lose a war for leaving; you lose a war from poor decisions, a lack of focus, not listening to expert advisors, and being arrogant and pompous. Worst of all, you DEFINITELY do not win a war by continuing down the same path, especially if the Iraqi "government" itself is both incapable and irresponsible in putting their own country back together.

Objectively, this is looking far beyond repair. Things that could and should have been done have lost their chance. Why do we listen and agree with an inexperienced President and administration when the experts, the generals and the military leaders of our time, all agree that this is has become a fruitless endeavor?

I support the troops, so much so that I think they're presence in Iraq has become a waste of their time and our resources, and that it's time that they come home. Congress, for the most part, also believes this to be true. Why do we let a leader who has not shown any success at all during this entire war, minus the actually dismantling of a presumably innocent foreign government, continue down an unintelligent and illogical path?

Sigh.

This thread could be a cut and paste from so many others of it's ilk. Bush haters v.s. Bush lovers. Lot's of heat and no light.

I have a simple question. Are we not now resposible for the future of the Iraqi people seeing as we created the situation in which they currently live? I hear plenty about what is best for the United States ("Pull out now!" or perhaps "Pull out now and another 9/11 is a certainty!"). But what about what is best for the Iraqi people - you know, the ones that want to live normal lives, have kids, weddings, grandkids, full stomachs and a safe society. Are we so selfish that our loss of 3000 soldiers in a misguided military operation blinds us to the need created by that same venture? Our country (yes - even if you didn't vote for Bush, this country is collectively ours) has created a situation that promises nothing but heartache for millions of people. But we only seem to consider what is best for us. America has lost its soul. We have become a nation of spoiled children, wallowing in our wealth, unable to empathize with the suffering we have caused.

I'm willing to have the troops come home - but offer me a plan that fixes an Iraq that we broke. I no longer care about the war on terror. I am ashamed of what we have done to that country. And I expect that shame will increase when we finally abandon them to their own devices.

How many partisan bush haters would like "their" daughters to be forced to live under sharia law? The idiots hate bush so much, they'd sacrifice their own family.

Posted by: tradam | Apr 30, 2007 3:38:56 PM

So, remind me again why we are fighting and dying in Iraq to establish greater Iran and a Shia theocracy?

Did you ever notice how anytime you mention universal health care some Bushie jumps on your case for supporting "socialist medicine"?

Of course no one working seriously on healthcare has suggested anything of the sort. "Socialist medicine" describes government ownership of the system (hospitals, clinics, rehab, etc) and that doctors are government employees. The universal healthcare movement is focused making sure that all Americans have affordable health insurance and access to care. This has nothing at all to do with "socialized medicine".

The truth is that the Bushies are way too incompetent to address the problems faced by real Americans so instead they ridicule them and call them names. I look forward to the day when they are gone and we get some real leaders back in place who are actually able to solve real world problems.

I don't think any Bush haters want to live under Sharia law.

It is the Bush SUPPORTERS that want to make America a religious dictatorship. Thats the big irony, the GOP fighting the Taliban when in fact they believe in the same things.

Here's the problem: much of Iraq's problem is America actually staying to "fix" the country.

Some Americans may have the best of intentions of staying to "fix" the problem, but if we are causing more of an issue than actually resolving, then it'd make a lot of sense for us to leave.

If the country is going through a cultural war, then it's beyond our control to fix such a problem. Our presence is even more of a nuisance, period.

And let's face reality: the companies in Iraq are there to make money, not help stabilize the country. Part of the reason for the insurgency is the lack of jobs and money going to the Iraqi people and instead into the pockets of foreign investors, not because of religious turmoil.

Also, in the vein of conservative thinking, how can we help those that cannot help themselves? The Iraqi government spent only 20% of their funds on actually fixing Iraq. Why help a fledgling government that doesn't have its act together after 5 years?

We caused the country a lot of problems, and it's obvious that we have no real solution in fixing the trouble. It's best to let them figure it out themselves.

Yes, we are winning the losing war. If you are a Bush supporter, just like Bush, you will not admit anything even if the sky is falling. This administration is living in a cave.

"I wonder how effective and tough Nancy and Harry will be under real pressure? Plus the next 9/11 type of disaster that is sure to come."

Absolutely. Imagine if John Kerry had won in 2004 -- the kind of guy who volunteered to go to Vietnam and won a Silver Star for courage under fire. Talk about folding under pressure. Thank God we have an ex-alcoholic draft dodger as President! That's no doubt why things have gone so well since 9/11 -- Iran and North Korea have renounced nuclear weapons, we've captured Osama bin Laden, the Taliban's lost all influence in Afghanistan, and al-Qa'ida has been driven out of Iraq once and for all.

To those Bush supporters: yes, we are winning the losing war. Damn it.

If the president of Iraq would through out the media 90 % of the killing would stop. The more we protest against the war the more the enemy will fight (Vietnam) We never learn. The Libral left are the dumbist idiots on earth. GOD bless the men and women that beleive in freedom and are willing to fight for it and not coward down to Sadam, Hitler, and so on. wake up idiots.

dt posted a great link about Vietnam. I doubt anyone would disagree with that article.

The US is in the exact same situation as it was 40 years ago. The current Iraqi government is incapable of forming an army or police force that can project its citizens. The current situation in Iraq will end, as all civil wars end, when one side gives up. By staying, we are just delaying the inevitable, however that will be defined in the future.

(Unlike Vietnam however, we can't even identify our side!)

I noticed some hailing of the Canadian Health care system. Well, I lived under that health care system for 8 years and let me tell you, you don't want to go down that road. I was sick for 3 months and no doctor seemed interested in finding either a cause or a solution. Went to the US and a doctor ran some tests and found an infection in my kidneys. He gave me medication, took them, was cured. If I had stayed in Canada I might have died.

Further, I had a friend who had a tumor in his brain. Guess what happened to him on the Canadian Health Care system. It took over a year to get a CAT Scan and by then the tumor was too big and inoperable. He died 3 months later. Great Health Care System isn't it.

For those who've never participated in Socialized health care, keep your mouths shut. You have no idea what it's like to live under it. Yes, if your healthy, it's great. Just don't get sick and you'll be fine. Please take this as advice from someone who couldn't wait to live back under the good ol' USA health care system.

I noticed some hailing of the Canadian Health care system. Well, I lived under that health care system for 8 years and let me tell you, you don't want to go down that road. I was sick for 3 months and no doctor seemed interested in finding either a cause or a solution. Went to the US and a doctor ran some tests and found an infection in my kidneys. He gave me medication, took them, was cured. If I had stayed in Canada I might have died.

Further, I had a friend who had a tumor in his brain. Guess what happened to him on the Canadian Health Care system. It took over a year to get a CAT Scan and by then the tumor was too big and inoperable. He died 3 months later. Great Health Care System isn't it.

For those who've never participated in Socialized health care, keep your mouths shut. You have no idea what it's like to live under it. Yes, if your healthy, it's great. Just don't get sick and you'll be fine. Please take this as advice from someone who couldn't wait to live back under the good ol' USA health care system.

He is guilty of killing our servicemen and women and causing injury to thousands, name on company that can get away with that without being sued to hell and back? That goes for the rest of the country for looting our tax dollars for a war that can't be justified.

Posted by: ted langs sr. | Apr 30, 2007 2:08:17 PM

Ted : Thanks for setting everybody straight on the war, prior to your posting i thought that are U.S. congress had given Mr. Bush war authorization after seeing the same intelligence that he had looked at. ( oh right ted he lied about it ) All these Defeatocrats were talking about the danger of Sadam long before Mr. Bush was President, now they're all running from their votes for political expediency. You Looney Lefters must think everybody out here is as dumb as you are. Bottoms up on your Kool-Aid ted.

Bob C,

The vast majority of Iraqis want us out of their country. Face it, they don't want what we're selling.

The Iraq Civil war is for Iraqis to figure out. It's long time past due for our troops to get out of the referee business. Brine 'em home.

I don't hate this man.
I don't even dislike him.
I hope he makes it.

But, I don't respect him.

Loony Left? Gee, one Loon here says the al Qaeda didn't exist until "we made it up." And this slam was directed at Bush administration! So, Al Qaeda didn't exist under Bill Clinton? It didn't bomb Madrid? London?

Here again is another Loon who probably thinks we attacked ourselves on 9/11 and we blew up the WTC. Course, those Loons who say the steel in those towers wouldn't melt can now explain how the steel beams melted in the fire at that Oakland highway??

And, we have Loons who keep believing the Bush administration lied about WMDs in Iraq even while their liberal Democratic heroes have said the same since the 1990s.

Reality and common sense -- Clearly not needed to be a Loony Lefter.

Don B.,

Who's drinking the koolaid? Saddam's WMD programs were in shambles, the sanctions, while not perfect, were working. Saddam was not a threat to this country.

It is true, however, that Dems were long obsessed with Osama Bin Laden, remember him? He's the guy who actually planned the WTC attacks. He's the guy Bush let slip away at Tora, Tora through his signature incompetence. He's the guy who Bush says is no longer relevant, but reportedly was behind the suicide bombing designed to take out Cheney.

I guess it must be hard being a Bush apologist. The more Bush blunders that come to light, the harder that republican spin machine has to work.

Same old Tony Snow - having cancer doesn't necessarily confer wisdom or honesty or compassion.

The biggest fear I have is the people who say the war is wrong and we should pull out,are the people who have very little knowledge of history.
They also could not guarntee another attack on America,now or never.Why do people hate so much when a strong leader appears. Americans like an easy fix. I hope these people who refuse to see the danger that is present,will not have to live in fear in the future.

If you think we can win in Iraq - either you are stupid, or crazy, or both. For those you are not stupid, I suggest, why did you stop your meds?
(from Marblehead)

How interesting is it that the most stalwart Bush defenders like Ron and Don (brothers?) can't express a thought with correct spelling, grammar and the typical right-wing cliches?

OMG Bush Press Flake Tony The Snowjob Snow is at
it again,lying and spinning about how our AWOL
Viet Nam War "Hero" Turned Liar In Chief George
W Bush "Didn't Really Mean His Famous,"Mission
Accomplished" Bush BS or that "Hostilities in
Iraq Have Ended" so that Incompetent in Chief
Foul Up Bush and Vice Foul Up Delusional Draft
Dodger Dirty Dickey Cheney can have the New
General George Armstrong Custer.Gen Betrayous
"Surge" more Dead American GIs into the Bush &
Cheney Body Count and Claim the US in winning the
War in Iraq Bush BS! Impeach Democrat Co-President Nutty Madame Damascus Nancy Pelosi,
Nazi Mad Man George W Bush and Mussolini Dick
Cheney!

In court proceedings, Exhibit 1A of a Loony Lefter: Sandy!!!!!

"Nazi Mad Man George W Bush" and "Mussolini Dick Cheney." Sandy, how are those treatments going?

It is true, however, that Dems were long obsessed with Osama Bin Laden, remember him?
Posted by: dt | Apr 30, 2007 10:17:54 PM

dt: The only obsession with the Dems' was under the desk in the oval office. Michael Scheruer who ran the CIA Bin Laden unit said the Clintoon Adm. passed up 12 opportunities to eliminate him, Sandy Berger also knew that, that' why he did his stocking stuffer routine long before Christmas. So now your finding fault with a man who's trying to actually do something about these thugs and head choppers.

Don,

I seem to remember Clinton ordering cruise missle strikes on an eastern Afghan camp in 1998 after CIA intelligence concluded bin Laden might be meeting there with other al Qaeda leaders.
What did Bush do to eliminate Bin Laden, before or after 9/11? His best shot was at Tora Bora, so what happened?

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0304/p01s03-wosc.html

"So now your finding fault with a man who's trying to actually do something about these thugs and head choppers".

By this statement I guess you mean Al Qaeda. So if Bush was so determined to exact revenge on these "thugs and head choppers", the one's who were actually responsible for 9/11, why did he divert nearly all our resources to the war in Iraq? Al Qaeda wasn't there before we paved the way for them to find a new training ground.

Don,

We're finding fault with a President that attacked a country that was:
1. Not a threat to America.
2. Has results in the death over (I believe it's now) 3000 servicemen and women.
He has also not displayed any intelligent plan for success in a war with no objective, and is failing on the rebuilding of the Afghanistan front.

Fact is, Clinton and the representatives of the country at that time were wrong for not putting more effort into going after Bin Laden.

HOWEVER, that does NOT excuse Bush's shortcomings as President. The most damaging of events is 9/11 occuring under his watch. Blaming Clinton for not catching Bin Laden is like blaming Bush for letting 9/11 happen; both had not acted appropriately or had been successful, and the results have been devastating. Yet, in all honest, both had no idea such events would transpire in the future. Personally, I'm willing to give both of them the benefit of the doubt. Only a fool would look to point fingers about this issue, and so far it's looking like the only way the conservative base is able to look good is by casting irrelevent blame on others.

Bush had also suppressed information indicating that Iraq lacked any threat to the United States. I don't care if you don't call that lying, but to have Colin Powell sit in front of Congress giving direct testimony of "unrefutable" evidence of Iraq being a danger to America is pretty shameful of the Bush administration.

We went there to find weapons of mass destruction. There have been none found. True intelligence shows that there has been much doubt about there ever being any. No matter what argument you may try to fashion, these clear facts make it evident that we clearly went into Iraq for no reason. That error is clearly Bush's fault.

If you still love the guy, then please, go right ahead. But honestly, if you're going to attempt trying to strawman your arguments by putting in irrelevent information and problems, then it's not going to work.

Dave : This is from Chris Hitchens that noted "conservative"
No matter how you on the left try to revise history, facts are facts. This is what Mr. Bush and the rest of Congress had to work with...no fabrications, the only fabrications are from the left , like you Dave.

Tenet's reaction on the terrible morning of Sept. 11, 2001:

"This has bin Laden all over it," Tenet told Boren. "I've got to go." He also had another reaction, one that raised the real possibility that the CIA and the FBI had not done all that could have been done to prevent the terrorist attack. "I wonder," Tenet said, "if it has anything to do with this guy taking pilot training."

Mr.Tenet a Clinton appointee

Here is what Tenet told the relevant Senate committee in February 2002:

Iraq … has also had contacts with al-Qaida. Their ties may be limited by divergent ideologies, but the two sides' mutual antipathy toward the United States and the Saudi royal family suggests that tactical cooperation between them is possible, even though Saddam is well aware that such activity would carry serious consequences.

As even the notion of it certainly should have done. At around the same time, on another nontrivial matter, Tenet informed the Senate armed services committee that: "We believe that Saddam never abandoned his nuclear weapons program." It is a little bit late for him to pose as if Iraq was a threat concocted in some crepuscular corner of the vice president's office. And it's pathetic for him to say, even in the feeble way that he chooses to phrase it, that "there was never a serious debate that I know of within the administration about the imminence of the Iraqi threat." (Emphasis added.) There had been a very serious debate over the course of at least three preceding administrations, whether Tenet "knew" of it or not. (He was only an intelligence specialist, after all.) As for his bawling and sobbing claim that faced with crisis in Iraq, "the administration's message was: Don't blame us. George Tenet and the CIA got us into this mess," I can say, as one who has attended about a thousand postmortems on Iraq in Washington, that I have never, ever, not once heard a single partisan of the administration say anything of the kind. The White House may have thought that it could count on the CIA to present some sort of solidity in a crisis but, as Sept. 11 had already proved, more fool the White House.

Don,

I still don't see a relevent connection here between 9/11 and Iraq.

Al Qaida caused 9/11.
Al Qaida POSSIBLY talked to Iraq.

Note that word "possibly." Tenet uses words of insecurity here, honestly denoting that he had no clue whether Saddam had spoken to Al Qaida or not, and even if they had, how much they had really spoken.

It's a very weak connection, definitely not enough for a country to go to war. Al Qaida having connections with any country at all, even if that means sending a single e-mail, aren't grounds for attack.

Honestly, I do question Tenet's sudden change of heart. (I'm consider myself a moderate; I don't pick sides based on whether you wear the R or D pin, I do so based on whether your ideas are logical. Also, I have to say, thinking that Leftists in general as crazy or evil people is just as bad as someone thinking all Righties are irresponsible and crazy. Shouldn't we be older than this?) But I wonder how extensively the Bush administration really looked into seeing whether Saddam actually had WMDs, even without Tenet's change of testimony. Why other intelligence agencies in countries within the UN were not concerned (aside from the White House labeling the organization a failure, especially in light of them being correct).

In reality, I think there was tremendous debate over this... before the Bush administration got here. During the Clinton years, Saddam consistently played hardball with UN inspectors. It was a leader playing very strong politics against the world. When Bush became president, I think the prevailing idea was that it's almost certainly true that Iraq had these weapons. How could they not? So the little poor intelligence the CIA had was certainly enough for war.

Except, as the Plame incident's showing us, there was obviously plenty of doubt behind this claim.

The war itself was probably a political move. Saddam was "clearly evil," he probably (big word: probably) had WMDs, the UN would look incapable, and that would brush aside the US' failed attempts at Bin Laden.

Except, again, Iraq didn't have WMDs.

Which goes back to the "connection." Just because both groups have a common goal does not indicate any kind of real connection, and apparently that's all the CIA really had. That's not enough for war. The American public assumed this kind of statement to be rock solid. I think it's time we realize that, unless someone comes out and says this kind of stuff plainly, that we should always have doubt in whether this is all THAT real.