Afghan leader at Camp David, 'work to be done'

by Mark Silva

One must run a fortified slalom course of cement barriers in the battered streets of bomb-shattered Kabul to reach the presidential palace of Afghanistan, where the walled grounds themselves are pocked with buildings in various states of ruin.

Camp David ought to look pretty good, by comparison, to Afghan President Hamid Karzai, arriving later today for dinner and an overnight stay, more meetings with President Bush and then a joint press “availability’’ for the two leaders Monday morning.

Karzai also spoke with CNN's Wolf Blitzer about Osama bin Laden and much more. Asked if Afghanistan and its allies are any closer to finding bin Laden, Karzai said: "We are not closer, we are not further away from it. We are where we were a few years ago.''

A full transcript courtesy of Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer follows below.

Gordon Brown, the new British prime minister, joined the president at the Maryland mountain retreat last week. And with his joint press availability with Bush, Gordon’s first, he had this to say about one of the nations where United Kingdom forces have joined U.S. and NATO forces in continuing combat against terrorists:

“Afghanistan is the front line against terrorism, and as we have done twice in the last year, where there are more forces needed to back up the coalition and NATO effort, they have been provided by the United Kingdom.’’

Brown moved quickly, however, to repair what appeared to be a rift between him and Bush, who has insisted time and again that Iraq represents the “central front’’ in the “global war on terror.’’

“In Iraq, you're dealing with Sunni-Shia violence, you're dealing with the involvement of Iran, but you're certainly dealing with a large number of al Qaeda terrorists,’’ Brown said. “And I think I described Afghanistan as the first line in the battle against the Taliban, and of course the Taliban in Afghanistan is what we are dealing with in the provinces for which we've got responsibility, and doing so with some success.’’

During a surprise stop in Afghanistan en route to India on March 1, 2006, President Bush joined Afghan President Hamid Karzai in dedicating a new U.S. Embassy in Kabul. White House photo by Eric Draper

Karzai, however, is not having as much success against terrorist opposition within his own nation and along the unruly border with Pakistan, which the unsealed portion of the latest National Intelligence Estimate made by the Bush administration has described as a “safe haven’’ for al Qaeda’s terrorists.

Vice President Dick Cheney went to see Karzai about all of this in Kabul in February, and now Karzai is coming to see Bush – at the U.S. presidential retreat once known as Shangri-La.

On the way out of Kabul, on Feb. 27, a “senior administration official’’ who had requested anonymity -- but proceeded quite early during his remarks to the traveling press aboard the vice president's aircraft to identify himself as Cheney -- spoke of the vice president’s mission in Afghanistan and Pakistan during those past two days.

“The reason the president wanted me to come, obviously, is because of the continuing threat that exists in this part of the world on both sides of the Afghan-Pakistan border -- a threat to Afghanistan, clearly, in our efforts there, the Taliban, cross-border operations; a threat to (Pakistania President Pervez) Musharraf and his government,’’ the official said.

“Let me just make one editorial comment here. I've seen some press reporting says, "Cheney went in to beat up on them, threaten them." That's not the way I work,’’ he said. “I don't know who writes that, or maybe somebody gets it from some source who doesn't know what I'm doing, or isn't involved in it. But the idea that I'd go in and threaten someone is an invalid misreading of the way I do business.''

So this is what he came away with from that meeting:

“My sense of it was Karzai was more positive and optimistic than I'd seen in my recent visits,’’ he said. “That doesn't mean that there's no threat. That doesn't mean -- no rosy scenario. There's a hell of a lot of work to be done.

“The point is a lot of work has been done,’’ he said. “I was struck by the luncheon we had with Karzai. He started reciting all the things that had been accomplished since we moved into Afghanistan in the aftermath of 9/11 -- in terms of economically, socially and so forth. He told a story to the group there about -- this was the immediate aftermath of 9/11 -- about meeting with a group of tribal elders in one of the remote parts of Afghanistan.

“He was trying to get them organized to participate in going after the Taliban and governing Afghanistan,’’ Karzai’s guest continued, “And he said the only question they wanted to ask me was, is the United States with you.’’

So, was Karzai told the U.S. is with him?

“Yes.’’

“I'm struck also by the extent to which both of these governments signed on as allies in the war on terror,’’ our senior representative of the U.S. government told reporters aboard Air Force Two that day. “It has real meaning to them in their respective countries.

“If you look at Karzai, folks in Afghanistan and the fact of the presence of the United States, our military role, the economic aid and assistance we're providing, all of this is absolutely vital to their ability to continue to improve the circumstances on the ground, to train their own Afghan forces, and to take on more and more responsibility, viable functioning governments,’’ he said.

“I've often spoken and would reiterate again today,’’ he said, “when you think about the debate at home, some of my friends on the other side of the aisle arguing that we need to get out of Iraq, then you go spend some time with our allies in Afghanistan and Pakistan, you can't help but be convinced that that would have a devastating impact, devastating consequences for what they're trying to do, what they've agreed to do in terms of their ongoing efforts with us as allies in these struggles in this part of the world.’’

The prospect for success there is another question.

“The test will be in terms of whether or not, we're able to see results on the ground. These are age-old problems. You sit down and talk with Karzai, he'll talk about the history of Pashtun rule in the region for 500 years.

“He can tell you what the Durand Treaty was all about between Afghanistan and India in 1889 or whenever it was, and why that's important to today's conflict and so forth. So this is not a problem that just sort of developed on the spur of the moment. A lot of Afghans living in Pakistan during the Soviet era because they were refugees. A lot of them have gone home now, but there's still some who haven't. There's still some in those refugee camps. So movement back and forth across that border is nothing unusual, nor is it very recent. It's been going on for ages.’’

And here, courtesy of CNN's Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer, is more from Karzai today:

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: President Karzai, thanks very much for joining
us. Welcome back to LATE EDITION. I want to get immediately to your
upcoming visit. You are about to meet with President Bush at Camp David.
If you could narrow down the number one issue on your agenda when you
meet with President Bush, what is it?

HAMID KARZAI, PRESIDENT OF AFGHANISTAN: Well, mostly the issues that we
have been discussing in the past five years, with special reference to
more urgency and more importance given to the fight against terrorism,
radicalism, issues of concern to Afghanistan, with reconstruction, with
the fight against narcotics, civilian casualties, the strengthening of
the Afghan security forces, raising capacity, all of these issues.

BLITZER: These are all major issues on your agenda. The hunt for Osama
bin Laden, do you feel that you and your allies, including the U.S., are
any closer to finding Osama bin Laden?

KARZAI: The information that we have in Afghan system, we are not
closer, we are not further away from it. We are where we were a few years ago.

BLITZER: And where do you believe Osama bin Laden is hiding out?
KARZAI: I can't say exactly where he is hiding. But I'm almost certain
he is in this part of the world.

BLITZER: Is he in Afghanistan or is he in Pakistan?

KARZAI: Well, I can't talk about that, whether he is in Afghanistan or
Pakistan, but I definitely know that he cannot be in Afghanistan. Where
he is is a question that I cannot answer at this point.

BLITZER: Are you satisfied at this point that the Pakistanis…

KARZAI: Meaning that I don't have the answer.

BLITZER: Are you satisfied at this point that the Pakistanis, now that
their agreement with the tribal leaders in Waziristan and elsewhere
along the border with Afghanistan has collapsed, that the Pakistani
government of Pervez Musharraf is doing everything it can to clamp down
on al Qaeda and the Taliban?

KARZAI: Well, Wolf, recent events in Pakistan and the situation in
Afghanistan are a very indication to all of us in this region and
(INAUDIBLE) of the world that the fight against terror has to be real,
meaningful, and effective.

I'm looking forward, together with President Musharraf, to a grand
meeting, a grand convention of the people of Afghanistan and Pakistan,
the representatives of both countries to be held soon after my return
from Camp David around the end of the first week of August.
So that is a very important event. And I hope good will come out of it.

BLITZER: So you think President Musharraf and his government are doing
everything they can to help in the struggle against the Taliban and al
Qaeda?

KARZAI: I would believe as the situation demands, all of us should be
doing everything we can.

BLITZER: Are you satisfied yet with the stance of President Musharraf or
you do you feel they still are lacking?

KARZAI: Well, they have taken some very strong measures in Pakistan
against extremism. The Red Mosque example is one. There are other
examples. I hope we can all speed up, increase and bring more
effectiveness into this fight in this whole broader region, not in
selective areas. If that happens, then we are on a good track.

BLITZER: Here is what U.S. Major General David Rodriguez, he is the
commander of the 82nd Airborne in Afghanistan, said at the end of July.
He said that -- referring to foreign fighters coming into Afghanistan
from Pakistan, he said: "It has increased probably 50 to 60 percent over
what it was last year, most of them come across the border through
Pakistan, the foreign fighters.
Is that your assessment as well?

KARZAI: That is our assessment. That is exactly true. That is one of the
concerns. And these are the issues that we will be discussing when
President Musharraf and I meet in a few days' time. And this will also
definitely be an issue discussed in the fight against terror, the
meeting that we will have between the people of the two countries in a
few days. Yes, that is true.

BLITZER: All right. You said when you meet with President Bush at Camp
David, one of the issues on your agenda will be the civilian Afghan
casualties that are caused as a result of coalition, NATO, or U.S.
bombs, if you will.
On May 2nd you said: "We can no longer accept the civilian casualties
the way they are occurring. It is not understandable anymore."
Has that situation gotten better or worse from the Afghan perspective?

KARZAI: We would like that situation to get much, much better. The
Afghan people have been steadfast helpers, providing assistance to the
international coalition against terror. The Afghan people have suffered
as a result of terrorist activities in Afghanistan.
And also as a result of the fight against terror, we have to do
everything, everything that we can to reduce civilian casualties. They
are allies in the fight against terror. And allies have to be protected.

BLITZER: Do you feel the NATO allies, including the U.S., are too
trigger-happy right now, and as a result innocent Afghan civilians are
killed?

KARZAI: I wouldn't term it as such. I would say that mistakes are made
and we must try our best to reduce the number of mistakes and cut them
off completely.

BLITZER: I'm going to give some statistics that seem to suggest the
security situation in Afghanistan in recent years has deteriorated. For
example, the number of coalition troops killed back in 2004, that year
58, in 2005 it went up to 130, 2006, 191.
This year so far halfway into the year, already 130 coalition troops
have been killed. As far as suicide attacks within Afghanistan, back in
2003, there were two. In 2004 there were six. In 2005, 21. And last
year, 136 suicide attacks. This year the number is expected to perhaps
double given the rate so far.
Is it a fair assessment that the security situation in Afghanistan is
deteriorating?

KARZAI: The security situation in Afghanistan over the past two years
has definitely deteriorated. There is no doubt about that. The incidence
of terrorism affecting Afghanistan have increased. The Afghan people
have suffered.
Terrorists have killed our school children. They have burned our
schools. They have killed international helpers (ph) of (ph)
Afghanistan, aid workers, they have kidnapped people.
They have right now kidnapped Korean citizens. They have killed
international security forces. That is exactly what we are trying to
prevent. That is exactly what we are trying to do together with
Pakistan, to reduce so that ultimately we have a complete defeat of
terrorism in this spot of the world.

BLITZER: The U.S. ambassador in Kabul, William Wood, suggested in June…

KARZAI: Wolf, Wolf…

BLITZER: Yes, go ahead.

KARZAI: Wolf, as a matter of fact, it goes back to the statement of
General Rodriguez, that there are more foreign terrorist elements
entering Afghanistan and causing all sorts of trouble.
So it is a bigger issue. It is a more complicated issue. It is not only
the security of Afghanistan, it is how we deal with the international
terrorism all together.

BLITZER: The U.S. ambassador in Afghanistan, William Wood, suggested in
June that Iran is playing a significant role in the security situation
in Afghanistan as well. "There is no question," he said, that weaponry
of Iranian types has been entering Afghanistan for some time in amounts
that make it hard to imagine that the Iranian government is not aware
that this is happening."
Is Iran directly involved in the security situation -- the deteriorating
security situation in Afghanistan?

KARZAI: We have had reports of the kind you just mentioned. We are
looking into these reports. Iran has been a supported of Afghanistan, in
the peace process that we have and the fight against terror, and the
fight against narcotics in Afghanistan.
Iran has been a participant in the -- both processes. They then have
contributed steadily to Afghanistan. We have had very, very good, very,
very close relations, thanks in part also to an understanding of the
United States in this regard, and an environment of understanding
between the two, the Iranian government and the United States
government, in Afghanistan.
We will continue to have good relations with Iran. We will continue to
resolve issues, if there are any, to arise.

BLITZER: Well, is Iran a problem or a solution as far as you are
concerned? Are they helping you or hurting?

KARZAI: Well, so far Iran has been a helper and a solution.

BLITZER: All right. Let's talk about the Korean Christian missionaries
who are being held hostage in your country right now. The U.S. is not
necessarily ruling out military action to try to free those Korean
missionaries.
What is your stance?

KARZAI: We want the safe release of the Koreans taken hostage by
terrorists in Afghanistan. These terrorists, as you know, mostly of
foreign origin, foreign backing. But since the hostage-taking took place
in Afghanistan, it brings us a bad name.
We are very sorry about that. We will trying everything to have them
released safely and in security. That is why we have been extremely
careful not to do anything that may jeopardize an ongoing effort.

BLITZER: As we are speaking right now, two of them have already been
killed. Are you ready to negotiate directly with the Taliban who are
holding these Christian missionaries from South Korea in order to secure
their release?

KARZAI: We will do everything other than encouraging hostage-taking and
terrorism to have them released.

BLITZER: That sounds like you are not prepared to make any concessions
because presumably that would encourage further hostage-taking.
KARZAI: We will not do anything that will encourage hostage-taking, that
will encourage terrorism. But we will do everything else to have them
released.

BLITZER: Do you have any indication, anything you can say to their
families, to the people in South Korea, that gives you hope that they
are about to be released?

KARZAI: We are working very, very hard on this question. I have been
personally involved in giving calls to my officials on an hourly basis.
We are working very, very hard. Let's hope that they will be released.
It is a shame, a tremendous shame, Wolf, in any society, particularly as
the Afghan traditions are concerned, to take hostages, and especially
women. In Afghanistan, I remember not so long ago when I was a younger
person, say, when I was in my teens, that thieves, robbers, when they
would go into a bath and see women in the bath, they would get out and
not do their robbery and leave the baths.
Now there are people in the name of the Taliban who take women hostages
while they claim to be Muslims, while they claim to be Afghans. That is
not true. They are neither Muslims nor Afghans, these hostage-takers.

BLITZER: And of the 21…

KARZAI: By the way they behave.

BLITZER: Of the 21 hostages, 18 of them of are Korean women. We have to
leave it there, President Karzai. Have a safe trip…

KARZAI: Exactly.