Army suicide rate at 26-year high

Someone should tell these soldiers that George W. Bush cares deeply for them.

SAD, SAD, SAD, SO SO SAD.

It's amazing how we as americans always find ourselves at these great perils in life. It's you and me that is there, and this doesn't have to be when we come back home!

WHAT IS THE BIG PICTURE AT THE END OF BUSH'S TUNNEL.

PRIVATE CONGRESSIONAL BRIEFINGS, MEANWHILE....

At the front line is not anyone he ever met or will meet just an American Life an American Father, American Son, American Sister, American MoM, American Mother.

2001 - 2007 DOING THINGS BY EXECUTIVE ACTION WITH OR WITHOUT CONGRESS.

BUSHMAN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HfyK1BRE5U

Feel the death with your hands
Steal their lives while you can, Bushman
Speak the rhythm on your own
Speak the rhythm all alone, Bushman

Bushman, come together with your hands
Save me, don't you need to have a plan?
Save me

All my friends are in Iraq
All my friends are dead and gone, Bushman
All my friends are skeletons
They beat the rhythm with their bones, Bushman

Feel the death with your hands
Steal the votes while you can, Bushman

Thank you, good night people

I hope anyone who posts on this subject be respectful of the troops.

Dubya is responsible for a lot of things, but laying this on him in its entirety is wrong.

This is very bad news. All the people who love war and just had to have this one should see this along with the death and destruction as part of the legacy that the Bush administration will leave behind. Of course, some of the commentary on these blogs will conclude that the suicides were members of the "loony left" rather than people with a host of problems that rendered them unable or unwilling to continue their lives, and may not have been able to get the help that they needed. My heart goes out to the brave men and women bearing intolerable heat, and sand, and the constant threat of death in a hostile land because of their desire to serve this country no matter what. And then I think of the Romney boys who are serving the country by munching corn and hot dogs in Iowa in order to get their daddy elected president. Where is the sanity?

Suicides are tragic, regardless of where they occur. But to present military statistics in isolation is incomplete reporting. The rate of 17.3 per 100,000 soldiers committing suicide can be compared to the 20.84 per 100,000 males ages 20-24 in the civilian population (source: American Association of Suicidology). In short, civilian males in the same basic age group as soldiers are MORE likely to commit suicide. By percentage, the 17.3 suicides per 100,000 equates to
.000173 percent of soldiers
versus .000208 of similar age males in the general population. This comparison does not make the military suicides any less mournful, but to report only military without comparable civilian figures smacks of another anti-military report.

There was "limited evidence" to back the suspicion that repeated deployments are putting more people at risk for suicide, the report said.

Even with "limited evidence", our children should not be living through these life shattering experiences. This is the first piece of news I read this morning and it broke my heart.... again.

Doug Zook, what do you enjoy most about being out of touch with reality? Of course your Dubya is responsible for this, and it is not wrong to point to him. He can numbly say "I take full responsibility" for stupid stuff. He is the one who opened the can of worms or Pandora's box, if you like. He was the great decider. He was the one who campaigned in 1999 on the premise that the military was in shambles, and then turned around and said we are the most powerful nation on Earth, sending the military in action in Iraq. Nobody, even your so-called "loony left" disparages the men and women who are the military, but it is disrespectful of them to view any criticism of administration policy, and ass backward decisions as knocking them.

Through early morning fog I see
The visions of the things to be
The pains that are withheld from me
I realise and I can see

Suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
But I can take or leave it if I please

The game of life is hard to play
Im gonna loose it anyway
But losing cards are some days late
So this is all I have to say

The sword of time will pierce our skin
It doesnt hurt when it begins
But as it works its way on in
The pain grows stronger watch it grin

A brave man once requested me
To answer questions that I keep
Is it to be or not to be
And I reply oh why ask me ?

And you can do the same thing if you please

What the Bush haters at the Swamp don't want you to know:

"In 2006, the overall suicide rate for the United States was 13.4 per 100,000 people. It was 21.1 per 100,000 people for all men aged 17 to 45, compared to a rate of 17.8 for men in the Army."

In short, the rate of suicide of men in the US army is less than that of the general population.

For more, see
http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/009741.php

Doug,

There is a certain amount of responsibility any President should expect for any situation as serious this. Bush is the President of the United States. Bush loves this war and let all his buddies profit from it shamelessly. There are people who share responsibility for these deaths, but the onus of responsibility ultimately rests on the Commander in Chief. Kind of like when sports or tv stars bemoan their loss of privacy. IT GOES WITH THE TERRITORY. Deal with it

This is so sad...its no wonder that the suicide rate is so high right now, with families being separated for so long and no end in sight!

The effects of this war will be with these soldiers for the rest of their lives. Statistics also show that physical abuse among soldiers returning from this war is also at an all time high. They are defending their country because they believe in "freedom" and they will never be free of the memories that will haunt them forever.

My heart and prayers go out to all that have defended this country, and to the families who will never see their loved ones again. It's just so sad.

I wonder if there are any statistics regarding how many of these people were on their 2nd and 3rd tours (involuntarily).

And then there's the matter of troops who snap from PTSD with sometimes tragic consequences back home:

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_6626694

GW & Andi,

Okay morons.

Obtain all the evidence of all these suicides and then show me how Dubya is responsible for it?

Every mental health related suicide?

Every drug/alcohol abuse related suicide?

Every extra-marital affair related suicide?

Every financial problem related suicide?

Every we'll never know the cause related suicide?

If you want to be taken seriously, then be serious.

P.S.

Nitwits.

My father did two tours in Vietnam. I'm an ex-B-52 crew chief. My nephew just got back from two combat tours in Iraq. I think Dubya, Darth and a lot of others are a bunch of chickenhawks.

But I will rot in hell before I listen to you lay military suicides at the feet of anyone with a blanket comdemnation.

Now go piss off.

Psychotic behavior occurs when an individual's belief system breaks down. If the person truly believes in the words of Jesus and their church and community is encouraging them to go kill anybody, there's a crisis brewing. You can't believe two opposite things at the same time without going crazy. We've had numerous soldiers who have "snapped" by coming home on leave, killing their whole family and then themselves. We need to examine the conflicting beliefs we are planting in these children.

I hope anyone who posts on this subject be respectful of the troops.
Dubya is responsible for a lot of things, but laying this on him in its entirety is wrong.

Posted by: Doug Zook | August 16, 2007 1:53 PM

Thank you Zook. Granted that I am past my mid-40"s, but I do remember enough about government that no one person is responsible for our country going to war. On the blog regarding the Preesident's daughter being engaged, I brought up my favorite comparison, "Lemmings". A Democratic lemming will blame any and everything on the Rep's, without knowing what they are talking about. Well GW, John E et. al, you are lemmings.
I do not agree with the entire war myself, but to have the unbelievable ignorance to make comments like: "Someone should tell these soldiers that George W. Bush cares deeply for them" is astonishing. Many poeple, including a large number of Democrats had to work together to get our country into war.
So, to make the comments that I have seen here indicates that the people that make those comments have less respect for the soldiers that they proclaim the President doesn't.
So, to: david k, John E, GW, pay heed!! Your comments on this particular blog show that you have no respect for the families of these dead soldiers. There is a time for sarcasm, and a time for respect. You have crossed the line, and the only positive that somes of this is that now that you have shown your inability to have respect for anybody/anything, it will be much easier to take your comments for what they are.
TRIPE.

Per Bruce:

In short, the rate of suicide of men in the US army is less than that of the general population.

---

In short, Bruce, you once again miss (disregard) the point. General population v. Army population is an apples-to-oranges comparison. On an apples-to-apples basis, i.e., army suicide rate to army suicide rate, suicides are at their highest in 26 years.

Is it really so inconsistent with your principles to recognize that being trapped in an endless war might be enough to put someone over the edge? Sometimes bad news is just bad news. This is simply bad, depressing news that ought to bother everyone.

----

Doug Zook: I really don't see where you're coming from on this. Bush is ultimately responsible for all the mess associated with the Iraq war, the Army suicide rate merely being one of the countless tragedies he has instigated. Obviously there are any number of other factors that would drive someone to suicide. But to the extent that being stop-lossed into quasi-slavery in a war that's not going to end anytime soon is a factor, that is indeed directly the fault of Dear Leader, his zeal to pursue this needless war, and is failure to adequately prepare for and prosecute it.

Bruce wrote -- In short, the rate of suicide of men in the US army is less than that of the general population.

And what, this is supposed to make the families of those who committed suicide feel better? If you are trying to say that a war and the ways it tears apoart individual lives does not have influence of things like the suicide rate, you need some alone time for introspection. Like Doug Z said, the point is not to pin everything on one person. Its to understand the consequences of actions. This relates to all memebers of government, all voters. All people who post on blogs.

a blinkin,

You answered your own question:

"Obviously there are any number of other factors that would drive someone to suicide."

I'm trying to be calm about this, but I admit I've got to work at it. In WW II most troops served for the duration. In Vietnam a lot more soldiers were killed than in Iraq.

Then there's this thread's headline:

"Army suicide rate at 26- year high."

So, what was happening in 1986 that caused the rate to be higher? Iran/Contra? Grenada? Two more years of Reagan?

I'm as pissed as anyone about the Iraq Civil War, multiple tours and stop-loss. This war is unnecessary and stupid beyong comprehension.

With the above in mind, how is Dubya responsible for these suicides?

Through early morning fog I see
The visions of the things to be
The pains that are withheld from me
I realise and I can see

Hey Morris, can you get me the lyrics to "One toke over the line" by Brewer & Shipley?

We weren't involved in a fighting war in 81, a year with a higher rate. Must be a little more complex than even a reporter can figure-out.

Back to remedial math.

I'm convinced. If anything bad happens in the world, it's George Bush's fault.

And he's responsible for every bad thing that's happened in the last 2000 years, including the Plagues of Egypt, the Black Death, and the Cubs not winning a World Series since 1908.

Doug Zook, what do you enjoy most about being out of touch with reality? Of course your Dubya is responsible for this, and it is not wrong to point to him.
Posted by: GW | August 16, 2007 2:17 PM

GW, Doug is no fan of Bush as shown by his many, many posts here. I happen to disagree with him on this particular point, but "your Dubya" definitely doesn't apply to Mr. Zook.

Doug, I wonder how many of these soldiers would not have taken their lives had Bush not sent them to this war?

Rick/Sneads Ferry, NC,

In response to your last question:

I don't know. Probably some. But then again what war could this have not be said about?

And how do you begin to quantify it?

but to report only military without comparable civilian figures smacks of another anti-military report.

The military has to be reported separately from civilians. Soldiers are property, distinct from civilians. They have their own courts of law, their own "Constitution", and are under a different set of public "rules" than we are. They are their own separate country. They are also subject to a different existence than we are. I am sure you'd find plenty of people killing themselves if you lived under the conditions the soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan do. I bet a lot of Iraqis do!

I'm convinced. If anything bad happens in the world, it's George Bush's fault.

And he's responsible for every bad thing that's happened in the last 2000 years, including the Plagues of Egypt, the Black Death, and the Cubs not winning a World Series since 1908.

Posted by: Bruce | August 16, 2007 5:24 PM

Welcome to Clinton's world.

"Snitramc" says "Soldiers are property."
That's what they used to say about
SLAVES. What a warped view about the people who are defending all of us at risk to their own lives. Are there no depths deep enough for some people?

While I might disagree with Doug's Z's opinion on this matter, I respect the guy and his right to say what he thinks is right.

The legitimate object of war is a more perfect peace.

There is many a boy here today who looks on war as all glory, but, boys, it is all hell. – From an address to the graduating class of the Michigan Military Academy, June 19, 1879, known as his "War is hell" speech

William Tecumseh Sherman

Rick of Sneads Ferry, thanks for pointing out that Doug is decidedly NOT a Bushie. He's also not responsible for throwing "loon" around. I was amazed that nobody else had noticed that.

I sit somewhere between you and Doug on Bush's responsibility. The President certainly had no intention that ANY soldier commit suicide, nor is he in a position where he's able to stop anyone inclined to kill themselves, so in that sense I hold him blameless. HOWEVER -- inasmuch as he ordered them into combat AND is keeping them, unrelieved and unrefreshed by replacements, at the front for double and triple duties? There, he holds responsibility. No one can be pushed and pushed like we're asking of our soldiers without having some of them reach a breaking point. And that's tragic.

And we can all juggle figures about how the rate of suicide is comparable to that of the general public, but that still doesn't explain away more suicides than we've had in the military in 26 years. That figure is still significant.

"Hey Morris, can you get me the lyrics to "One toke over the line" by Brewer & Shipley?

Posted by: Rob S | August 16, 2007 4:54 PM"

Yes, I could, if I felt like it.

*************

Re. the suicides.

Serving in the military is just one toke over the line of being in prison. You give up all sorts of rights.

That's why it's so incumbent on the LEADERS to be sure any engagement is worth the sacrifice, and absolutely required.

Trying to say that we should ignore this report simply because it didn't mention other irrelevant stats is flawed logic. You know, they didn't talk about how many young men shoot each other every year either, so let's just throw the baby out with the bath water. It's called a red herring argument if I remember my pol sci class. The point was that it was at a 26-year high. We should not worry so much why or who's fault it is (GWB), and start being very concerned about the welfare of the guys who have to deal with this horrible, unnecessary, criminal war. But I'm not by a long shot letting W off the hook. When you're the leader (or decider in this case) of a country, and you start a crusade, religious war, whatever you want to call it, you get the blame. Did Hitler have his henchmen? Of course, but who do we say committed the holocaust? So you Bush lovers stop your crying foul that this, the worst president in US history, is catching so much flak from the nasty lefty press who never reports any of the good things about this war. He and his henchmen are nothing less than war criminals for sending young people to die so he can swagger around and act tough! He's a draft dodger! I can't for the life of me understand how real tough guys can like him.

One last thing. I served in the military and I have a son there now. It is VERY VERY different from the civilian world, even in peace time. They DO own your ass and they may tell you you have rights and guarantees, etc., but your a fool to believe that, especially these days.

I am a Private First Class in the US Army, and let me say to all of you who make these anti-war poems and who blame the President...my boss...for all this that I am ashamed of you. Why does this have to become political? Can't we just try to stop the problem? And don't you dare say "the war is the problem". Yes, because we are a nation at war and have been for over six years, this has contributed to this statistic, but to John E and Roger Morris (the second and third posts from the top respectively) I am truly ashamed of you. Deal with the issue do not sidetrack like always happens when confronted with the problem.

My son want to join the air national guard. He said its his life, I can't tell him nothing. He is 19 years of age, he fell the first test, but is going to take it again. He is so excited about the 20,000 sign-on bonus, and the monthly income, but he is in school, but took a leave of absence to do this just for money. I asked him what about your life, and he stated to me he is going to die sometime, and I told him he is not speaking on a positive note and this is not the best way to make money. If you have any, any insigh about this program or airforce reserve please e-mail me, before it's to late for my son.

Sign: need info