Departing Gen. Pace takes aim at critics

Good riddance. The man was completely spineless, unworthy of high military command.

Dear Gen. Pace: If we the American people can't "vote our way out of a war," which the US started in a pre-emptive attack on Iraq, we no longer live in a democracy. You falsely link the 9/11 attacks to Iraq; When did the Iraqi people try to "stop us from living the way we want to live our lives"? Have a happy retirement, Gen. Pace, funded by generous American taxpayers.

Hooray for Gen. Pace.

More importantly, why hasn't the Swamp reported on successes and good news in Iraq?

Since the Swamp won't, I'll do it.

U.S. military, Iraqi civilian deaths down

The number of Iraqi civilian deaths last month fell by more than 50 percent, while 64 American forces died, the lowest monthly toll since July 2006, according to figures compiled by the U.S. military, the Iraqi government and The Associated Press.

The sharp decline in death tolls signaled a U.S. success, if only temporary, in bringing down violence in Baghdad and surrounding regions since Washington completed its infusion of 30,000 more troops on June 15.

The figures for Iraqi civilian deaths were dramatic, falling from 1,975 in August to 922 last month, a decline of 53.3 percent. The breakdown in September was 844 civilians and 78 police and Iraqi soldiers, according to Iraq's ministries of Health, Interior and Defense.

In August, AP figures showed 1,809 civilians and 155 police and Iraqi soldiers were killed in sectarian violence.

“What worries me is that in some instances right now we have individuals who are more interested in making somebody else look bad than they are in finding the right solution."

Gee, I certainly hope he had this conversation with George W. Bush and the Republicans.

Johnny D,
Does success equal victory? Can we come home now? My guess is that your answer is no because victory is always just around the corner and success is always just over the horizon. Spin away pukemaster.

“We have an enemy who has declared war on us. We are in a war. They want to stop us from living the way we want to live our lives. So the dialogue is not about are we in a war, but how and where and when to best fight that war to preserve our freedom and to preserve our way of life and to do so with the least damage to our own society and the least damage to those we're fighting against so we can -- we can put the pieces back together on the end of this.”

Wow interesting comments”

“dialogue is not about are we in a war, but how and where and when to best fight that war to preserve our freedom” I agree, my questions is why should we blindly follow the failed leadership that got us into this mess. Because unless your part of the 29% blindly following Bush, Iraq was not our enemy.

“and the least damage to those we're fighting against so we can” – am I missing something here, I respect General Pace for many reasons, but I think as a Marine General his job is to do as much damage to those were fighting against.

And lastly “we can put the pieces back together on the end of this.” I not sure we’ll ever get the pieces back together as the damage that our leadership has cause to people, country, can ever be put back together. Also not the “end of this” are we really expected to believe that we can bring this to an end.

I think not folks,

Brian

Johnny D:

Only you and your right-wing types would consider 64 dead American soldiers "good news".

We Democrats want to change that - to NO Americans dead because of W's foolish venture there.

Farewell to Pace and his ilk.

When our fine and proud military "drinks the cool-aid" of any political administration it's time we should all say good by to democracy.

Pace claims that the deaths are "down" in Iraq, holding this fact up as if it's a good thing.

Remember well General Pace, that your boys are dead and wounded because we failed to find those "weapons of mass destruction" the very ones your boys went in to "protect us" from.

Don't you dare now stand tall and say that we have a "defacto success" because the death rate in this war torn country is down a few points.

Farewell Mr.Pace, you are unworthy of the title General. Slink away to retirement on Fox News as your boys continue to die, and die and die...for what exactly?

Good riddance to another spineless General who was towing the Bush/Neocon agenda and ignoring the will of the majority of the American people.

You're next Patraeous!

In August, AP figures showed 1,809 civilians and 155 police and Iraqi soldiers were killed in sectarian violence.

Posted by: John D | October 1, 2007 3:54 PM

So I guess those figures mean things are going well in Iraq?

John D.

Thanks for your great news, "In August, AP figures showed 1,809 civilians and 155 police and Iraqi soldiers were killed in sectarian violence."

Let's see the last time that I looked, sectarian violence, is a nice phrase for civil war, isn't it?

Notice there are no comments about the number of islamofascist terrorists that killed anyone, or that our side killed. I guess there just aren't many of those around for us to fight.

So you want to tell us all why we're in Iraq?

John D., You want a nightmare? Well here's one for you. W's war is being stopped by Iran, not our troops. This is sad (but I'm not sure why) but true. General Pace is like most Generals, completely political and oblivious to what is going on. By the way, how did he free the people in these wars? Just in case you've forgotten, we lost both of them.

Why has commenting been closed on the thread about Harry Reid demanding an apology from Rush Limbaugh? Could it be because Rush posted the transcript and audio of what he said on his site? And it's nothing like what The Swamp and Harry are saying it was?

p.s. Toeing, not towing.

Swamp note: We had some trouble with the program that publishes the blog this afternoon. It's been restored, as has the ability to comment on all posts, we think.

Man, Bush really looks like he is enjoying himself.

Anyone care to describe what that look on his face means?

"WILL THE REAL GENERAL PLEASE STAND UP"

How many Generals on the ground does it take? WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF GENERALS. DICK CHENEY IS NO GENERAL, GEORGE BUSH IS NO PRIVATE, I MEAN GENERAL? WHO ARE WE GOING TO LISTEN TO? PATREAUS DIDN'T SHOOT STRAIGHT, CONDI IS NO DIPLOMATIC GENERAL AT ALL. SO WHO OH WHO ARE WE GOING TO LISTEN TOO, OH WHO OH WHO OH WHO.

ADMIRAL FALLON? By the way, where is the Great Admiral?

A MILITARY JOKE!

Gosh, I thought it was treason to speak ill of generals!

I am glad to hear the good news from Iraq. So we can bring the troops home now? Or do these stats give Cheney permission to start a war with Iran now?

I guess our continued failure in Iraq over four and a half year has been caused by "bad fairies". None of our Generals or civilian leaders have been to blame. Most of our Generals have complained about the conduct of the war when safely retired. Pace is a classic incompetent who should have been replaced long ago. Our military needs a whole new group of leaders. As Casey Stengel said, "can't anyone here play this game"

It is certainly a shame that we put men like General Pace in leadership positions when there are so many true military experts out here willing to point out every imagined shortcoming, although unwilling to serve. If only we could count on all of you to straighten things out, what a wonderful world this would be.

C.Morris, Bush is gloating about how a "C" student gets to order the general to read the speech his White House staff prepared. Or he's impressed by the general's "wide stance". Take your pick.

most of the folks that posted already with negative comments are poor pukes that don't deserve to be in the same country with Gen Pace. They have never served anybody but themseves. Go away, you people annoy me. we should use you on the front lines like Sun Tzu did.. Congratulations Gen Pace and WELL DONE!

What a bunch of sissies talking about a fine Military Officer behind his back. If you listened to his speech, you would know that he is a true patriot. As the General said, you have that freedom because of fine men and women who have served to protect that freedom. I bet those who are talking have never served.

Tom O,
Thanks for the analysis. Could be it.

I see a deep psychosis of some sort.
Is he smiling?
Is he in agony?
Is he gloating?
Is he feeling pleasure?
Is he imagining torturing the photog?

He is a sick man.

Tom O,
Thanks for the analysis. Could be it.

I see a deep psychosis of some sort.
Is he smiling?
Is he in agony?
Is he gloating?
Is he feeling pleasure?
Is he imagining torturing the photog?

He is a sick man.

Dogjudge and Anonymous Bosh, I see we have come across that reading and comprehension problem you folks on the Left have.

You folks are quoting August numbers. From my same post here are the SEPTEMBER 2007 numnbers, which the report I pasted is about:
The figures for Iraqi civilian deaths were dramatic, falling from 1,975 in August to 922 last month, a decline of 53.3 percent. The breakdown in September was 844 civilians and 78 police and Iraqi soldiers, according to Iraq's ministries of Health, Interior and Defense.

Again, the Left is not interested in victory, success, humanity. The Left is only interested in defeat, havens for the terrorists and more success for the terrorists.

The breakdown in September was 844 civilians and 78 police and Iraqi soldiers, according to Iraq's ministries of Health, Interior and Defense.

Posted by: John D | October 1, 2007 8:18 PM

John D please tell me you don't actually think these are encouraging numbers? Keep drinking the Kool-Aid while your tax dollars and American prestige go down the drain. I might add that if defeat(as you put it)is anyones legacy, it is the failed policies of the Bush administration. General Pace and former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld can go to sleep at night knowing that they prosecuted a horrible war stategy. Not enough boots on the ground, and failing to finish the job in Trash-ghanistan. I've provided links so you can begin to catch up with reality. Down and dirty. Read em and weep.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1008-25.htm

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1538579,00.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7053-2004Oct4.html

http://www.slate.com/id/2173031/nav/tap3/

The next time we hear from 'Mr.' Pace will be on the talk show circuit where he will be telling us how he wanted to do it all differently, but no one in TeamBush would listen.

In one week, the U.S. lost 7,000 men at Iwo Jima. If Anonymous Bosh and his ilk were alive back then, they would be chirping about giving up, giving, in, cutting and running, and losing.

FLASHBACK! Al Gore criticizes Bush for ignoring Iraq's ties to terrorism

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9JE48XHKG64

Good comments all around. The one thing that stands out that bothers me are responses like such "When did the Iraqi people try to "stop us from living the way we want to live our lives"? "

This comment is based on the assumption that Gen. Pace was claiming that we are at war against Iraq. He was not. We are not at war AGAINST Iraq; the war AGAINST the dictator of Iraq and his Army was fought 4 years ago, now we are trying to rebuild the nation to a point that it can self govern and hopefully one day thrive. This is, of course, for selfish reasons, I won't dispute that - we are trying to build a nation in the heart of the mideast that does not dispise us but instead looks at us as the nation that removed a despot from its leadership and helped it become and independent and strong nation - does anyone actually have an issue with those intentions?

Of course, there is fighting going on, so if we're not fighting against the nation of Iraq who are we fighting against? The fighting in Iraq, on the American militaries part, is aimed at building stability and raising security. The fighting is with Jihadists, remnants of Sadams Baath party, old-party loyalists and, yes, some Al Quaeda terrorists. They fight because they are afraid of what America's intentions are, they feel theyve been disrespected by cultural mistakes on our part, they see non Muslims as their mortal enemies and plenty of other reasons.

But, to be clear, we are not at war against Iraq and Gen. Pace made no claim that we are.

Sun Tzu? General Pace broke most of the rules and guidelines in the Art of War.

Rule #1: Moral law.

If you don't have a 100% of the people backing you, don't even consider going to war. Majority of the citizens will be with you if you can morally justify it. It's a difficult law but reasonable. Once, the citizens under the ruler understand why we must fight, then they will be more than happy to work toward that goal. Going to war under a false pretense and co-ercing alliagance only leads to hate and resentment. If you co-erce people, they will follow you only to the gate of hell, but never go through it.

Rule # 2: Heaven
The Desert is a very unforgiving climate. In my opinion, we prepared well here. Problably lessons from the 1st Gulf War.

Rule #3: Earth
Overall, terrain prepareness is good but lacking in locality. A very poor job in monitoring and scouting of towns and cities. Is the town friendly or foe?

Rule #4: Commander
Does the commander have wisdom, benevolence, courage and strictness? No exception! If you want people to fight, you better be out there with them. Sleep with them. Eat with them. Be the grand daddy. If not, don't bother. . .you'll end up with a demoralized army not an exceptional army! People are complaining the tours are too long. It's a hint. Get it???

Rule #5: Method and discipline

Lacking in planning, tactics, unwilling to change or modify plan to meet goals. This is a clear violation of Rule #5. No plan for victory. What happened to the analysis reports before and after the war???

Discipline. Make no mistake, America still have one of the best military in the world. Well-organized. Well-discplined. Well-supplied. The question is now will it continue or will we slowly degrade through exhaustion.

1 out of 5 is not good! Winning is slim almost wishful thinking. It's time to wake up and plot a new direction.

In one week, the U.S. lost 7,000 men at Iwo Jima. If Anonymous Bosh and his ilk were alive back then, they would be chirping about giving up, giving, in, cutting and running, and losing.

Posted by: John D | October 1, 2007 10:04 PM

If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking.

George S. Patton

Sgt. Read, thank you for your service and for your input in this Swampland.

C Morris, even though Gen. Pace is now retired, he is still GENERAL Pace, not Mr. Pace. Please show some respect, Mr. Jerk.

C Morris, even though Gen. Pace is now retired, he is still GENERAL Pace, not Mr. Pace. Please show some respect, Mr. Jerk.

Posted by: John D | October 2, 2007 9:54 AM

I resent being mentioned in the same breath as that pandering lackey General Pace. He has tarnished his own reputation by acting as an errand boy for the Bush administration.

John D please refrain from besmirching my good name.

Sincerely, Mr Jerk.

Dated October 2 2007.
From the law office of Mr Knee Jerk, Esq.

"Please show some respect, Mr. Jerk."

John D,

I am aware that any field grade rank is a life long honorarium.

So is President. Show some respect for Carter and Clinton, Mr. Lickspittle!

Posted by: John D | October 1, 2007 8:18 PM

And your source for these numbers is...?

The usual groupies with dense mentality, no grasp of history will always attack great men like Pete Pace in their robotic programmed way. Swat!!

It has been an honor serving under the highest ranking Marine in my corps. I don't care what the average American thinks or that they can complain and always look for someone to be a scapegoat. You have served our country honorably since the Vietnam era. Not to many people can make that claim and have it be true. Best of luck to you and Semper FI.

"It has been an honor serving under the highest ranking Marine in my corps. Best of luck to you and Semper FI.

Posted by: Luke | October 3, 2007 1:40 AM"

Hoorah.

I agree with Luke. The left and right can gripe with one another all they'd like, throwing numbers back and forth, one side defeated and one side uplifted by the very same numbers. Sadly, it's the way it will always be and the side-effect will be that exceptional leaders like Gen Pace will be run out of the Corps as a way to take some heat off of one party or another.

The real tragedy here is that while politicians play their games and everyone here fuels them with their own anger and animosity, the men that just want to get their job done right like General Pace lose the opportunity to do it.

Semper Fidelis General.

"Let's see the last time that I looked, sectarian violence, is a nice phrase for civil war, isn't it?

Notice there are no comments about the number of islamofascist terrorists that killed anyone, or that our side killed. I guess there just aren't many of those around for us to fight.

So you want to tell us all why we're in Iraq?"

50 years ago we could reasonably allow for a country 7000 miles away from us, with a good number of its populace holding ill-will toward us, fall into civil war. It's their own dispute and their own nation, let them deal with it.

Today, however, we cannot. Here's my reasoning

Option 1: Leave now, let whatever measure of security for its new administration fall apart and let the country fall into a devestating civil war.

Outcome: (theorized) A young man who's brother was killed early on in the invasion has a lot of animosity toward us. Still, he's able to see the world clearly enough and realize that his brother may have been a collatoral casualty and that perhaps the US Marines meant it when they told him they were just their to help his country get back on its feet.
Then the Americans suddenly left. All the promises they made were broken, his brother's death was for nothing, he and his family live in fear of the spreading violence on the streets and now they have no one to go to for help, no US Marines, no local police since they've all been killed. And finally, his own daughter is killed by a stray bullet.

With all of his anger directed toward the US now, he spends the next two years saving money to come to the US and blows up a truck of fertilizer in the parking structure of the Manchester Grand Hyatt in San Diego, killing 250+ Marines during their birthday Ball, as well as 1400+ other civilians.

Option 2: We spend the next 5 years griping and complaining and whining about how HARD it is, but somehow pull it off. We are able to provide enough security in the major cities that the successful training of Iraqs national police and military is able to take place. Under it's own self-providing security a leadership council is elected and the country is able to begin pulling itself out of the gravel.

Result: The country comes out of its civil war. It looks at the US as an ALLY because of the great effort and time we took to provide its security during its rebuilding. We establish healthy oil-trade relations and our gas prices stabilize. The people look at us with some bad memories, a few with hurt and pain, but overall, in the end, it is recognized that we did what was right, whatever the intentions were.

What bothers me most coming from the Leftists here (and I will say that I have ALWAYS voted Democrat, so don't jump down my throat) is the thinking that we need to get out now to save our own. The most hippie amongst you has no problem alluding that there is a difference in value between US military lives and Iraqi civilian lives; aren't we all human beings? If we leave, no one can argue that the violence will simply stop, in fact it will most likely escalate higher because it will be unchecked. Justify that!

Tough crowd.
Interesting group of people to call a battle proven and well-loved Marine spineless. Marines, as a group, are pretty quick to figure out who does and who doesn't have their best interests at heart. They love Pace. We should trust their judgement.

Pace's job was to advise the President of the United States - not to disagree with his superiors in public. The military falls under civilian control. Period. That's part of the Constitution, not an opinion. You don't know what Pace offered as advice or counsel, and I doubt we ever will - Gen Pace won't tell us, although the easy thing to do would be to "clear his name" by sharing how and when he disagreed. Marines never do what is easy, they do what is right.

Importantly, they understand the risks of the job they are doing (and some of them are re-enlisting to do). They don't need you to look out for them. And they don't want your pity.

That's not to say that you can't vote for those representatives who share your views. Please do. It's still America.

Which brings me to whether or not you understand the idea of "voting ourselves out of a war." We didn't vote ourselves into this mess. We can and should, as part of the democratic process, discuss how and where we want to fight this enemy. We can and should learn lessons from decisions and mistakes made in the last 6 years. But we MUST recognize that an enemy exists, and that it must be faced somewhere.

It has been a priviledge to serve and travel with General Pace over the past year. In that time I have found to be a moral man of character, integrity and compassion. His caring and concern for the men and women who are fighting our war are evident to all who interact with him. I know that I will forever compare all officers in my future with General Pace. He is the gold-medal standard of leadership. God bless you General and Mrs. Pace, thank you for your lifetime of service to our great nation.

For Thirty nine Years
this soldier has stood the watch
While some of us were in our racks at night
This soldier stood the watch
While some of us were in school learning our trade
This soldier stood the watch
Yes.. even before some of us were born into this world
This soldier stood the watch
In those years when the storm clouds of war were seen brewing on the horizon of history
This soldier stood the watch
Many times he would be asked to go into harms way and as he departed he would see his family standing there praying for his safe return,
Needing his guidance and help,
Needing that hand to hold during those hard times
But he still stood the watch
He stood the watch for Thirty Nine Years
He stood the watch so that we, our families and
Our fellow countrymen could sleep soundly in safety, Each and every night
Knowing that a soldier stood the watch
Today we are here to say
"Soldier... the watch stands relieved
Relieved by those You have trained, Guided and Lead
Soldier you stand relieved.. we have the watch..."
God Bless.

General Pace's words tell us that he is but another pawn. Military men are not paid to think. In a democracy, that is the role of the individual citizen, which we abdicated after 9/11. With respect, we need to start thinking again, going back to the false flag operation of 9/11. Seeing the Richard Gage AIA Architects and Engineers presentation on 9/11 at Manitoba University allows one to begin to see how far off the path our democracy/republic has strayed. Only by facing this enormous error can we citizens begin to tell our military what is right. Which is much better than a solider telling us.
There are many military persons who have joined this effort and they are located at the Patriots for 9/11 Truth website.
Semper Fi.

For those of you who doubt and pass judgement on a man you do not know please view this link. Of all the mistakes that the administration has made, removing General Pace is, by far, the one that could hurt us the worst.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2007/10/13/starr.pace.vietnam.wall.notes.cnn

"Making somebody look bad”. He makes himself look bad!
One perfect example of Pace's incompetence is the MRAP vehicles. They were field tested two years ago in Iraq and are just now going to Iraq. Why, because this sissy would get off his ass and tell Bush and Rumsfeld that they needed to safeguard the troops. Don't worry; Pace won't be going to Bldg 18 at Walter Reed for health care.

As a sailor, and a future Marine, I am sad to see General Pace removed. He was an outstanding leader who understood what is going on, instead of you liberal pansies who scream for peace. Do you not realize that had we not gone to war we would look weak and it would have been open game on us. Do you realize that those insurgence would give their lives (which they have shown) just to kill one of you! Fortunately, we have men and women who protect you from this.

I am proud to say I have served under General Peter Pace in my time in the service. He was a good Marine who truly understood and took to heart his oath to "Defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies foreign and domestic."

In closing, if you're not going to stand behind these brave men and women, then stand in front of them. If you're not willing to do either, then be happy you have the freedoms you have, because else where you wouldn't have anything.

God bless General Pace. I hope he lives the rest of his life in peace. What a great and beloved leader of Marines. His detractors are clueless.

God speed, General Peter Pace.

Having served with you on three occasions over a span of 23 years, thank you for your patriotism, consistency, intellect, and perennial integrity. In an age of Personal Responsibility struggled countered with Self-Centered Excess you at have been constant.

You and your wife have ably demonstrated that there is no such thing as Freedom without Sacrifice. These words seem to increasingly grow all the more foreign in the once sacred halls of Congress.

Despite the separate and independent examination of facts of this war by Congress, the U.N., and the Media, our National Memories are profoundly short as is our Shortsightedness. As if the U.S. started this war.... remarkable.

Semper Fidelis,

Tom Sakievich
LtCol USMC (ret)