Driver licenses for undocumented: Clinton stumbles

DEER IN THE HEADLIGHTS!! Aw shucks, Hillary/Bill didn't rehearse her lines for obfuscating the license plate issue. In textbook megaphonic fashion she was able to rattle off her non-positions on everything else, but when it came to that one we could finally see what happens when the megaphone is turned off--you actually could hear her trumping herself in real time. She even got indignant about being "gotchaed."

Obama addressed the issue succintly, and that's what Clinton should have done. Edwards was correct, she often sounds duplicitous. I do agree with her about the "gotcha" thing, but she needs to be prepared for that, and she needs to be more resolute when she's answering questions or stating her position. In the end, Dodd is correct that we need to elect a democrat. I hope they keep nailing her on this stuff, because if she's the one, I don't want someone who talks out of both sides of her mouth.

Actually, Tom, I think America has grown used to presidents who talk out of both sides of their mouths, so if Hillary/Bill follows suit we will see at least 4 more years of side of the mouth talking.

I agree Hillary could have done a much better job answering this one question. But really, Swamp and I'm sure all the Hillary haters will try desperately to blow this one question out of proportion.

I took from her response that this stop gap measure is probably not the best approach but it's an honest effort to try to deal with a problem that should be solved nationally; whether it's the right a approach remains to be seen. I don't any difference between her answer and that of Obama's it's the "right idea". Neither answered directly, yay or nay.

"undocumented workers" She can't even say illegals?
This is the issue conservatives need to stand on. The vast majority of american citizens agree on is no amnesty for illegals, and stopping the mass illegal immigration flooding our country.
Hillary and the democrats are very vulnerable on this issue... and the one area the democrats are in agreement with G W Bush on. Hillary, just like Pelosi and Reid, would love to fast track illegals, and make them voters as soon as possible.

hillary is a total fraud who will be exposed more each day

All of her opposition jump on her for her answer of, "it's not the best plan, but it's the best we have right now" but only Barack Obama speaks with common sense.

Naturally, I haven't seen anything from any Republic Party candidates for president that address this issue.

For someone who talks a lot Hillary sure doesn't say much.

IF REPUBLICANS ARE SMART, they will make immigration the defining issue in future debates. The can easily force Hillary to be an big pro-illegal immigration, pro-amnesty, pro-open border candidate. And she'll easily flip-flop as illustrated last night. BUT THE REPUBLICANS MUST be clear and opposed to amnesty, drivers licenses, and open borders. IF they do that, they win. This is the issue that will illustrate whether our leaders are more in bed with special interests or the American people.

Yes, it's fair game. Since, she will be the leader of a free country, she will be attacked by Republicans and around the world.

She has to be smart enough to handle questions, comments, and criticism; regardless, if it is fair or not. Life is not fair.

There are many questions that can put a candidate between a hard rock. If you say "yes" you are damned. If you say "no" you are still damned. But, you have to be optimistic and point out the good things in a bad situation.

The Republicans are running on Immigration Bashing this election. Last time was Gay Bashing. It tricked all the Christians into voting for them not realize they were getting robbed at the bank. They pay higher energy price; come home with less money; incurring debts to the Chinese. What kind of future is that for Christians? Christians talk about Apocolypse. Yet, it is them who are promoting Apocolypse, themselves.

What a foolish gain! All for gay and abortion bashing. Everyone has to think beyond religion and personal beliefs. The Govt.'s job is to make your life better. To make sure our future is brighter. Are you reaping that? Or are you being reaped?

The Govt.'s job is not to tell what religion you should be in; it is not to decide if abortion is right or wrong; it is not to decide what rights you have or don't have if you are white, black, yellow, red, or mixed; That is up to God. Even, God gives free-will for people to choose their religion, and what they do with their lives; since you are responsible for your actions.

What is more important? Immigration bashing or a better future for you and your kids? What is more important? Gay bashing or food on the table? What is more important? Religion or a strong respected America around the world?

Whether you are voting Democratic or Republican, that is the real issue. If you are happy with the status quo, then that's fine!

But, if you want someone as President that will not talk about energy policy but actually going to companies and talking and making deals with them then you need to vote for someone like that.

If you want someone to help with the high gas price as a quick relief, vote for a candidate that is willing to use our oil reserve as soon as she or he gets into office. The oil reserve is just sitting there doing nothing. Remember that anything that belongs to the govt. belongs to the people Of United States of America. That's what our forefathers intended when they created this country. This is ours; it doesn't belong to the President, Vice-President or any Govt. Identity. It's ours! So, start acting like it by voting for someone who understands those American Values.

If you want someone who will stop selling us to the Chinese, then you need to vote for someone who promotes World Trade but fairly. $1 trillion debt to the Chinese is not a good sign of a sound economy. You'll be forking properties soon. Create new jobs to fill those that have gone to China by creating new technology. Forget the old oil economy, that will kill us in the long run.

Those are some of the American Values that everyone have to think about when they vote. Do you want to sacrafice your beliefs for backward or no gains? Do you want to win the Immigration Bashing while you have no food on the table?

It just plain doesn't make sense!

Oh please. We're at war, our infrastructure, ports, dams, nuclear sites, water facilities are all unprotected from terrorists, we're billions in debt to China, and our planet is being threatened by climate change we caused. I think there are other things more dangerous than some illegals coming here to work.

Hillary fumbled this issue, and appeared unprepared for the question. In fairness to her, she was really getting ganged up on by the other candidates. They almost made her sympathetic.

For the remainder of the Democratic debates, they should have a children's table where Dennis Kuchinic sits.

On the license issue, I'm in favor of offering to give drivers licences to illegal immigrants. Then when they show up at the DMV to take their test, arrest and deport them.

Billary's flip-flop.....anything new?

I have one question, and that is, "What has Hillary ever done for the American public that gets her Presidential consideration?"

And she is the best the Democrats have to offer? What a shame.

I hope the GOP makes immigration their main issue. Then they can prepare to kiss the Hispanic vote goodbye. The fastest growing part of the population will be running to vote for the Democrats.

HERE'S THE SOLUTION
Two issues. What to do with the millions here? How do we fix the border?
Put employed aliens with no criminal history on a path to citizenship. Must pass background check, must swear oath of allegiance to USA and constitution. That will take years.
Immediately create a massive military infrastructure on our southern border with fences,roads,armored vehichles and a policy we could call "not one more".
If your family didn't cross illegally with you, sorry. If you're a felon or a gangbanger. Sorry.
It's the only fair compromise that has a chance with our bipartisan gov.

I am no Hillary lover but to me Obama and Edwards looked desperate and the only one I see practicing a diff kind of politics is HIllary. Obama is the biggest hypocrite in the race and Edwards is ok but I am not sold on him 100%. TO me they made HIllary look sympathetic with how as usaul the "boys" gang up on the only woman.

All of the candidates speak
with forked tongue, so I
don't see why Hilary should be singled out. She is no more and no less phony than the other
candidates. So I choose
McCain for president simply
because he is a war hero
and otherwise just as capable as any other candidate. I love Joe Biden
but the people don't know him well enough.

Hey bob ... or is it Roberto?
Illegals can't vote, not yet anyway. That may change if the democrats have their way. Why is it anti-hispanic to insist you have to immigrate here legally? The hispanic countries insist on legal immigration, and harsh penalties to illegals, in their countries, why shouldn't we?

I have said for months that hillaryty is the worst of all candidates on either side of the mess. Now, she is doing her best to prove me right.

Let me add, that illegal aliens, and that is what they are, have one right, and one right only. The right ot be handcuffed and returned to their country of origin. They do not have the right to S.S. benefits, driver's license, employment, unemployment or any other benefit designated for Ameican "CITIZENS".

Hillary will forget about illegals if she is elected. She will be too busy raising taxes to pay for universal health care, universal retirement funds and anything else universal she can think of. I can't say that I like Obama much, but if I have to be stuck with a Democrat for President, I would prefer it to be him. I think he at least has more integrity than career politicians/spouses such as Hillary.

The evil empress Hillary is not "programmed" to handle such an attack by her fellow Democrats. Hillary is a party unto herself, she displayed this last night. Her aides need to take her in for a re-haul; I bet she is in the labratory as we speak having a new chip implanted in her very small brain. And Hillary, although black is definitely not your color- it was perfect for you lat night.

Hey Jason,
We tried that once in 1986, with the promise to stop future illegal immigration. Now we want to stop illegal immigration FIRST, and then we'll deal with the illegals already here. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

Goes to show what everyone knows deep down. Hillary is just an empty pants suit.

Does anyone really think that an illegal alien would show up for a picture and drivers license? Maybe we should put some money toward a policy that requires they have auto insurance to protect the law abiding citizens? Oh wait, that would be another non-starter as we all know that states already have this on the books and don't enforce it. This is a hypothetical discussion about a policy that will never work. The best approach to identifying illegal activity is to force employers to ensure employees have the legal and necessary documentation and penalize them if they don't. Anything less is illegal.

"THIS IS WHY SHE'S HOT, THIS IS WHY THEIR NOT."

SHE BACKED A GOVERNOR WHO HAS A CLUE! JUST LIKE AMERICA WILL IF THEY ALLOWED A MERIT BASED IMMIGRATION BILL AKA THE DREAM ACT.

OF COURSE THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T WANT ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, FOREIGN NATIONALS, MIGRANT WORKERS, AND THE VAST MILLIONS OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS THAT HAVE BEEN PAYING INTO THE SOCIAL SECURITY GOP SLUSH FUND AND NOW GIVE THEM A CURRENT SOCIAL SECURITY CARD AND THEY MAKE THE INFLUX OR FIX SOCIAL SECURITY AS WE KNOW IT TODAY.

So just like drivers licenses, this economy needs its people to perform for a better domestic times.

THE PROBLEM IS, IS THAT IT MAKES SENSE, AND IT HAS A REVENUE IMPACT THAT IS ACCOUNTABLE AND CAN BE TRACKED PROPERLY.

SO BEFORE ALL THE KINGS MEN ATTEMPT TO HANG HILLARY, GO HOME AND DO YOUR SECOND GRADE MATH AND GET A CLUE!

I think Dodd is correct. Having a drivers license is relegated for the American citizen. When will the Democratic party once again represent the American worker? They sold out on NAFTA now they represent illegal aliens?
Illegals are under bidding construction contracts and taking trade jobs at lower wages. Why is the Democratic party sweeping this under the rug? Republicans obviously want cheap labor, that is why Bush supports amnesty.
But Dems need to make a stand for the middle class and working class on this issue. These are not fruit picking migrant jobs, or house cleaning or lawn care that I'm talking about. These are tradesmen construction jobs like Masonry, carpentry, electrician, plumbing jobs etc. that make up a core group of American workers.
These jobs, and their contracts are being taken away by illegals. Stand up Democrats for the American worker.

For reference - here are her original comments on the Spitzer plan during an interview with the Telegraph's editorial board:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKGLP9ESnjM

As a United States citizen that migrated legally to the U.S., I can honestly say that Mrs. Clinton provided for me the most honest and thoughtful answer to the specific problem of giving illegal immigrants drivers liceses. The problem is quite bigger than just the issue of driver's licenses.
The problems of America cannot be solved by hardline ideological policies, but by intelligent solutions from leaders whose hearts are in the right place. America is not Russia or Europe or Africa. America stands for what is the best and the greatest in the world. This is why I wanted to come to America.

Dave, it is not about driving. That is a straw dog. It is about providing illegals with a legal ID, and giving them access to priviledges they neither earned nor deserve.

"border with fences,roads,armored vehichles and a policy we could call "not one more"."

What are the armored vehicles for Jason? Will walking near the border looking hispanic now be cause to be shot on sight?

If the Repiglicans had any brains (they don't), they'd ask themselves what their very own pushed for and voted for "Homeland Security" dept is doing about illegal immigration?

I'll tell you what it's doing, NOTHING, it's nothing more than a black hole for GOP cronies, wasted billions and bureaucracy.

Illegal immigration is a red herring for the Wingnuts because they know that their base hates minorities already.

I don't understand the big fuss about license to illegals. Before 9/11 it was common practice. This is BS.

KW:

The fastest growing segment of the population is Hispanic - the ones here legally who can vote. And here in Georgia, one of the largest Hispanic areas in the Atlanta area elected a Democrat to the Georgia House of Representatives from what was once a heavily Republican area.

And for your information I am of German-Russian descent.

Plus all the Republicans are for putting up fences along the border with Mexico, not with Canada or any other country. So doesn't that make most of the policy anti-Hispanic??

This will be a big problem for Hillary - she is vulnerable now. The Republicans will pound her into the ground on this one and "raising taxes" by letting the Bush tax cuts lapse. Wanting to give illegal immigrants a driver's license is bad enough, but switching positions in less than a minute and then not commiting either way looks weak. As a life-long Democrat, I think we need to drop Hillary and put our support behind Dodd, Biden, or Obama. These are the guys that have the conviction to stand against the republicans.

The most accurate and honest answer a democrat running for office should give to this question is..."Let me calculate which position will garner more votes and get back to you. I don't have values and really don't believe in anything but getting votes,...so, you first."

"Plus all the Republicans are for putting up fences along the border with Mexico, not with Canada or any other country. So doesn't that make most of the policy anti-Hispanic??"

I hope you aren't a plumber. My kitchen faucet springs a leak, and your replacing the pipes in the bathroom while my kitchen floods.

Hey Bob, the overwhelming majority of the 20 million illegals and drugs in this country came across the SOUTHERN border! When there is a mass migration from the north, you'll let us know ... won't you? EGADS!
Obviously a democrat voter. Not a lick of sense.

Howard you are partially correct. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce does support illegal immigrants because it's cheap labor. A large number of Democrats and the establishment of the Democratic party supports illegal immigrants because they see votes and they see more folks needful for a government bureaucracy.
Mainstream Republicans and Democrats, those folks in the middle and the average conservative Joe and Jane are not for illegal immigration. That is why 70 to 75 percent of the population shows up in the polls as being against amnesty, driver's license, etc.
It's not about race like the Loony Left Kooks like to claim, it's about being for U.S. citizens first and for the rule of law.
A recent nearby road construction project had protestors. The protestors consisted of everyday Americans holding up signs saying "Such and such company does not hire American workers."
Since when were construction jobs, "jobs Americans do not want"??

Hey Bob, the overwhelming majority of the 20 million illegals and drugs in this country came across the SOUTHERN border! When there is a mass migration from the north, you'll let us know ... won't you? EGADS!
Obviously a democrat voter. Not a lick of sense.

Posted by: K W Smith | October 31, 2007 2:30 PM

So why don't you call up "Homeland Security" and tell them about your problem? you nut.

The Republic Parties hatred of minorities is going to be their biggest downfall, they've already lost the last two generations of voters (thankyou KKKarl Rove).

John D-

How did you know the workers weren't american? If they were immigrants how did you know they were here illegally?

It couldn't be that you just assumed it because they were hispanic, could it?

Mainstream Republicans and Democrats, those folks in the middle and the average conservative Joe and Jane are not for illegal immigration.

Posted by: John D | October 31, 2007 2:43 PM

Lil Johnny Trade Rag Reporter,

I'd hardly call a rabid Wingnut like you a "mainstream American".

This has always been the Republican "strategy":

Gays, scary gangs, welfare cheats and illegals. The Republicans use the same message against all-- threats of disaease, exagerrated sexual crimes, dire warnings of damage to the social fabric and law and order hysteria.

Fear mongering and race baiting never change. It's the same recycled message with new targets, the GOoPers can always get their "base" to rally around a message of hate, it's what drives them.

Hillary thought Spitzer was proposing licenses for "aliens," the guys Kucinich saw.

I thought Senator Clinton's answer on drivers licenses made perfect sense. She said it was an imperfect solution to a tough problem and what we real need is a better immigration policy. Who offered a better answer?

This isn't about hatred of minorities. It is about the support of rule of law. I am not against immigration. I am against illegal immigration. Does anyone remember Elvira Arellano? She was in the country illegally and had sanctuary in a church in Chicago. Prior to that she was deported twice and came back illegally each time. One time she was arrested at O'Hare for identity theft. That is wrong. I know the government knows where I live, in addition to the names and SS#'s of my wife and kids. I also bet they knew less about Ms. Arellano then they know about me, a US citizen. Talk about lack of security. That makes no sense. Legal immigration (and the elimination of ILLEGAL immigrants) helps limit security issues, nationally and personally..

I am from NY and I don't think illegal immigrants should have any kind of drivers license, period. It will not bring them out of the shadows, maybe a few will apply, with a phony social security number, even though they need one to get the license, but they need a social security number to work at a legitimate business. So Spitzer's plan, doesn't make sense.
Why doesn't NY get them to apply for the licence, then deport all that apply, if you are bringing them out of the shadows, then they'll be out the country. Hillary NY senator should have fought Spitzer on this issue, because the majority of citizens are against the plan. And we don't need immigration reform Hillary,
we need to enforce the laws we already have on the books, and close the borders until we have enough border patrol to curtail the flow of illegal immigrants to this country.

"We have failed, and George Bush has failed."

That cracks me up every time I read it. Hillary's answers and her attempt to hold both sides of the issue is blowing up around her. So what does she do? Press the Easy Button (for Democrats, anyway). Just like Republicans whose retort when things go badly is to invoke the words "Clinton" or "9/11." Pathetic debating tactics, and funny stuff.

I don't think Democrats will appreciate the campaign turning into a "trash-Hillary" party. There are ways to attack her on the issues, but most Dems will not cotton to personal attacks on Hillary: they know she has been fighting the Republicans for years, they know the GOP can't stand her because she is a strong survivor, and they appreciate her for that if nothing else. They may not agree with her on some issues, but Democrats do still admire her, as evidenced by her incredible leads in all polls despite all the naysaying. By bullying her, Obama and Edwards are not going to cause people who have supported Clinton all this time, through all the withering attacks over the years, to suddenly change their minds. They're just going to make Clinton Democrats rally around her, like they did for Bill during the impeachment witch-hunt. I admire Hillary more now than ever for her strength in weathering these attacks, because they make the attackers look like desperate losers to me. True or not, that's how I felt after last night. I have my reservations about Hillary, but I was not comfortable with last night's ambush at all.

For all those proclaiming that this is only about illegal immigrants, not hispanic immigrants in general, one simple question:

Would you support raising the number of legal immigrants allowed into this country from Latin America annually to the current rate of illegal immigration?

It was the ACLU and the AFLCIO that filed suit halting HS identity check.
The senators running for pres all voted for the Amnesty Plan. See where it got John McCain?

What I saw last night:
5 Male candidates attacking, in pure desperation, the lone woman who can propel Democrats to victory in November 2008. I saw, a 6th man, stating the truth that the rest of the field had sunk to personal attacks against the lady senator.
What else did I see?
Hillary stood her ground- tough stuff that most of the candidates on stage could not have done in her position. She will wear well in the general election against the slimball politicians of the right wing.

Whenever there is a one-issue based on xenophobia, it'll bring out those who want things simple for them, and want to feel good about themselves (the rightwing lunitic fringe) and hate anyway. There is a sucker born every minute, and a lot of them turn out to be one-issue evangelical christians or the Dobbsian robots.

"I'm not part of a redneck agenda" - Greenday

Hey JT
I'm against 20 million mostly illeterate or undereducated immigrants flooding in from ANYWHERE, including europe! This racism accusation is getting very tiresome, and I'm also getting tired of pushing 1 for english.

For those of you who want a better "read" on Hillary, research Billy Dale of the Travel Office. Character assassination and trumped-up charges are her speciality.

Hillary simply does not want to admit she wants DL and amnesty for all illegals which will precipitate this country into Mexico and the 3rd world, just look at Los Angeles today

I'm against 20 million mostly illeterate or undereducated immigrants flooding in from ANYWHERE, including europe! This racism accusation is getting very tiresome, and I'm also getting tired of pushing 1 for english.

Posted by: K W Smith | October 31, 2007 4:25 PM

Such much for "Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore."

Thanks KW for making it clear that it's not about illegal immigration, but it's just that you don't like foreigners, especially hispanic ones.

By the way, it might have more impact if you spelled illiterate correctly.

I sure hope your immigrant ancestors were better educated when they came here than you apparently are.

AJF, I see you are one of the Loons who has a reading and comprehension problem. Those protesting the construction site had the signs saying that company doesn't hire Amrericans, not me.

John E., I'd be willing to bet my mortgage that I am a lot closer to the mainstream American than you are. Course, you have NO mortgage to bet with since you still live in mummy and duddy's basement.

Yeah, people are racist in this country but won't admit it. Of course, there is a lot of good people in this country too. But racism is everywhere not just in America.

Having said that, if Einstein was here illegally,today, do you think we would deport him? Hell no, we will give him a free pass, housing and make sure his shoes are shine.

So, once again, racist people hide under the illegal immigration bashing wagon. Yet, they will never admit they are racist. Just like a druggy will never admit he is hooked; or a drunken admit he is an alcoholic. The first step is to recognize you are a racist. Then, at least, you can take the next step. Learning to slowly realize there are 6 billion other people sharing this planet called Earth.

Sure, I've heard it all before. The silly argument that they are all for legal immigration! Yet, under the Republican Controlled Senate, they reduced quotas to legal immigration.

Wow, talking about hypocrites. hahahaha. . .

As someone stated before, coming into this country illegally does not grant you the privelages nor rights of one born here or immigrated here legally. Period. Driver licences included.

The only solution to this immgration problem is to limit the privelages of illegal aliens to such a point that their only way to make a living is to back to their home country.

That tired huddled masses worked back when we were an agrarian society; but you need to be literate now, or you end up being supported by american taxpayers. Get a clue. Things change in a hundred years. We can't support 10 million illiterate people... or should I say 10 million more illiterate people.

Have any of you who favor open borders and handing out benefits to illegal aliens ever heard of "the rule of law?" I didn't think so.

Listen folks, this isn't about racism or xenophobia. This is about enforcing laws.

We have laws that set quotas for the number of people that may legally immigrate from each country in the world. There are legal exceptions to bypass those quotas, most of which involve immigrants having special skills or attributes, or for those who marry Americans or are adopted by them. Unless one is admitted as part of the quota for his or her country, or on the basis of one of the exceptions, he or she may only enter temporarily as a visitor. Those who enter illegally, or overstay their temporary lawful visit, are subject to being detained and deported to their country of origin.

But now we have somewhere between 12 and 20 million people in this country, mostly from Mexico and Central America, who did not enter as part of their country’s quota or by means of a statutory exception to it. As such, they are here illegally according to the federal laws now on the books.

There has never been a larger or more widespread violation of American law on this continent. And, contrary to some of your opinions, the most disturbing part of this whole mess is that the government has actually encouraged this lawlessness through non-enforcement of its own laws.

We have no government if those who are elected or appointed to carry out our laws fail to do so. It is only through the enforcement of general laws that a government protects the lives, safety and rights of citizens and persons lawfully within its territory. The failure of the government to carry out the laws leaves us in a state of anarchy.

Therefore, we have only two choices with regard to immigration. The first choice is to insist that our laws be enforced. The second is to do nothing, which will keep us on the road to self-destruction as a society and a nation as we know it. It’s that simple.

I say we enforce the laws. We tried amnesty before, and it failed. Not only did it fail, it encouraged as much as a five fold increase in illegal immigration.

People who are not lawfully present in the U.S. should leave or be made to leave. They should not hold jobs. Anyone who gives them a job should be fined, jailed and suffer asset forfeiture. Nor should illegal immigrants get drivers’ licenses or enjoy any other governmentally provided benefits or privileges. Giving them government handouts only rewards their illegal behavior and encourages more illegal immigration. We should have learned this from all of our previous efforts.

John W,

It is xenophobia. Why do you pretend like you are a victim of Illegal Immigrants? We all are guilty for wanting cheap labors in America.

If you are not fueling illegals, then where do you think we get all our fruits and vegetables? Do fruits and vegetables have legs?

Who do you think build or repair your homes? Most construction sites employ illegals and you, my friend, benefited from it.

Now, that you have benefited from the goose that lay the golden eggs, you want to chop it's head off? Go ahead. . .see if it lays golden eggs after its head gets chopped off.

You keep avoiding the real issues: we are the one who fueled illegals by demanding their services.

Some Democrats & Republicans Endorse "THE SAFE ACT."

Head of Immigration Reform Caucus endorses Shuler's bill .... Key Dem Senator nixes AgJOBS

DEAR OPPONENTS OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION LOOKING FOR SOME GOOD NEWS,

I want to bring you several pieces of breaking and recent good news. Many things are moving in the right direction. Some of them have action items. Please note and enjoy.

REPUBLICANS BEGINNING TO GET EXCITED ABOUT THE DEMOCRATIC 'SAVE ACT'

Many Republicans have been cautious about a Democratic "Enforcement-Only" bill being promoted by Rep. Heath Shuler (D-N.C.) and gaining dozens of Democratic original co-sponsors before its introduction next week.

With nearly all the top leaders of the Democratic Party promoting amnesty and other rewards for illegal immigration, the question among Republicans has been whether the "SAVE Act" that comes from mostly lower-level Democratic Members of Congress can be trusted to truly combat illegal immigration?

Key Republican leaders of the anti-illegal movement have been giving the SAVE Act close scrutiny this week.

Doubts began to melt with the enthusiastic endorsement of the SAVE Act by California Republican Brian Bilbray, who earlier this year replaced Rep. Tom Tancredo (R-Colo.) as chairman of the Congressional Immigration Reform Caucus (when Tancredo began running for President).

Bilbray promoted the SAVE Act at a key meeting of House Republicans today. And Rep. Tom Feeney (R-Fla.) was reported to have received a strongly positive reception from his fellow Republicans after walking them through the details of the bill.

You can read a lot more about the SAVE ACT (Secure America with Verification and Enforcement) at:
www.numbersusa.com/interests/attrition.html

Our Capitol Hill Team has been in the offices of our best Republican allies against illegal immigration all day. The report from the team is that these Republicans, after looking it over, believe in Shuler's bill.

So do dozens of Democrats whose offices we've visited recently.

The fact is that this is becoming an incredible bi-partisan bill that represents the will of the American people to finally turn the tide on illegal immigration.

We are not allowed to tell you the names of all the original co-sponsors until the bill is introduced next week. But if your U.S. Representative already has officially signed up as a co-sponsor, you will find a 'thank you' fax on your Action Buffet corkboard.

And we CAN tell you that your faxes and phone calls are really making a difference on the Hill. It is beginning to look like this bill could be introduced with more original co-sponsors than any immigration bill ever.

The bandwagon is on a roll.

in this email:
1. Republicans begin reacting to Democratic SAVE Act to take jobs away from illegal aliens

2. Biggest anti-illegal immigration groups endorse SAVE Act

3. AgJOBS amnesty rejected by Senate Ag chairman

4. So long Senators Brownback and Martinez
actions in brief:
1. Use new videos by professional documentarian Cincinnatus to influence next week's local and state elections. Click here to view provocative interviews at www.thepromiseofhome.com. (You'll need to register with a password.)

2. Make sure you have looked at all the opportunities for action on your customized Action Buffet corkboard.
donate now:
This faxing system is 100% financed by the voluntary generosity of the 500,000-plus Americans who use it.

Please click here to make any sized donation to keep this grassroots phenomenon strong and effective.
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BIGGEST ANTI-ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION GROUPS ENDORSE 'SAVE ACT'

After weeks of study of the SAVE Act, NumbersUSA on Monday issued its official endorsement.

Rep. Shuler sent our endorsement letter to all members of the U.S. House. Read our endorsement letter here.

Today, FAIR (the Federation for American Immigration Reform) issued its endorsement. FAIR is the nation's oldest organization fighting illegal immigration, since 1979.

Dan Stein, President of FAIR, wrote:

The SAVE Act is an important piece of legislation because it works to help stem the tide of illegal immigration both at the border and in the workplace.

First, the legislation authorizes desperately needed resources to enhance border security. These include additional border patrol agents, aerial surveillance equipment, and motor vehicles for customs and Border Protection.

Second, the bill responsibly addresses the magnet of illegal employment -- one of the most significant causes of illegal immigration. It does so by mantating that all employers use the E-Verify Program, requiring that the Social Security Administration share "no-match" information with Homeland Security, and prohibiting employers from deducting wages paid to illegal aliens.

WOULD DEMOCRATIC LEADERS POSSIBLY ALLOW AN ENFORCEMENT-ONLY BILL TO COME TO FLOOR FOR A VOTE?

Even a month ago, that seemed highly unlikely. After all, the career immigration record of Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) rates at only 3% in our grading system! Only 11 of the 435 Members of the House are worse.

But all of you and many other Americans have made so much noise about illegal immigration that we are hearing some slight openness among Democratic leaders to allowing concerned Democrats to make their case.

Democratic leadership this week sent around this quote:

Democrats are reviewing poll after poll showing sagging popularity not only of Congress but also of their congressional leaders. So, some lawmakers have begun to argue, it just might be in everyone's interest to show that Washington can actually tackle a serious issue without all of the theatrics and games.
--"New Congress at War Over Everything," The Politico, 10/30/07

Real enforcement against illegal immigration sounds like just the issue, doesn't it? Keep up the pressure.

SENATE AG CHAIRMAN STRONGLY OPPOSES ANY VOTE ON AgJOBS AMNESTY ON HIS FARM BILL NEXT WEEK

Chances of a giant amnesty for ag workers and their dependents diminished significantly this morning at the National Press Club.

Sen. Harkin (D-Iowa), chairman of the Senate Agriculture Committee, told a group of reporters that he is adamently opposed to the Democratic leadership allowing the AgJOBS amnesty to be introduced as an amendment to "his" Farm Spending Bill.

Harkin noted that he is an original co-sponsor for the amnesty for illegal aliens working in agriculture. But he said immigration should not be legislated in the Farm Bill.

In fact, he said, immigration policy should not be taken up again until after "the next election." That would be 2009!

Your NumbersUSA Capitol Hill Team is noticing intense friction among Senate Democrats behind the scenes. Some are determined to keep trying to find a way to get some kind of amnesty through for at least some of the country's illegal aliens. But many other Democratic Senators are saying that they just can't stand the thought of another bruising battle over amnesty. They believe their losing battles so far this year have hurt them with swing voters and hurt morale among their base.

But we also know that the pro-amnesty groups have started major phone-in campaigns this week to push Senators to vote for an AgJOBS amnesty amendment next week.

We can't let Senators think that you aren't paying attention.

So, please go to your Action Buffet corkboard and send the AgJOBS faxes to your Senators.

If the threat materializes next week, we will notify you immediately to begin a massive phoning campaign. For now, we are holding off on starting the phoning. But if you want to go ahead, just call your Senators through the switchboard at 202-224-3121.

YOUR PHONE CALLS & FAXES THIS WEEK CREATED AN IMMEDIATE STIR -- AND SURPRISE

Late Sunday night, I alerted you to the possibility of an introduction of Rep. Shuler's SAVE Act. I suggested that some of you might want to start calling your Representative to ask them to take a look at the bill.

By late Monday morning, Shuler's office was being pounded with phone calls from other congressional offices in the Capitol.

The staffers were asking Shuler's staffers, "What is this immigration bill that our constituents are calling us about this morning?"

Most of them hadn't heard a thing about Shuler's SAVE Act to keep illegal aliens out of U.S. jobs. So, they were really startled when NumbersUSA members started calling them as soon as they arrived at the office Monday and kept calling all day.

After three days of tens of thousands of faxes and thousands of phone calls, every office in the U.S. House (if not every staffer) has now heard about the SAVE Act from NumbersUSA constituents.

You have achieved your first task of moving this into the radar of nearly every office.

I'm sure your calls helped create more receptivity among Republicans who discussed the bill at their big meeting today.

Now, we have to help push your Representative to sign the bill (if he/she hasn't already).

REPUBLICAN VOTERS ARE WEEDING OUT THE OPEN-BORDERS TYPES IN THE PARTY

Pro-amnesty and open-borders views are taking a heavy toll on major Republican leaders this year.

Last spring, Sen. McCain (R-Ariz.) lost his front-runner status for the Republican Presidential nomination -- and plummeted almost to single-digit polling -- largely because of his highly public leadership pushing amnesties for illegal aliens. His staff admitted then and again recently that his small-donor contributions just dried up once the Senate amnesty battle began earlier this year.

Now, I am so proud of all you Republicans who have knocked Sen. Brownback (R-Kan.) out of the Presidential race. He had staked his hopes for the last two year on having a large core base of evangelical and conservative Catholic voters. He criss-crossed the country speaking to large religious conventions of these voters. Two years ago, I was hearing from many of these voters that they were enthralled with Sen. Brownback. When I would tell them about his aggressively pro-amnesty work, people reacted in disbelief.

But eventually the truth got out about Sen. Brownback's immigration positions.

Most of his other positions were almost perfectly in line with the religious base he was seeking. But, like McCain, he totally blew it with an immigration position at odds with that base. Polls show that evangelicals, for example, oppose amnesties and rewards for illegal aliens by a higher margin than almost any demographic group.

NumbersUSA participated in advertising throughout Kansas starting years ago in efforts to make sure that voters there understood the leadership role Sen. Brownback was taking for open borders positions. We have looked for opportunities wherever we could to expose him during his Presidential run.

Along with defeated Sen. Spencer Abraham (R-Mich.) and defeated Rep. Dick Chrysler (R-Mich.) and firmly ensconced Rep. Howard Berman (D-Calif.), Brownback played the key role in working with Sen. Kennedy (D-Mass.) in 1996 in killing the immigration-reduction recommendations of the bi-partisan U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform, chaired by the late Barbara Jordan.

We are most pleased to see Sen. Brownback give up the race -- and plan to leave the Senate after this term.

We are ecstatic to see Sen. Mel Martinez (R-Fla.) announce that he will soon be resigning as the head of the national Republican Party.

All news reports about his departure have noted that his constant leadership for amnesty this year has seriously hurt Republicans' ability to raise money from small donors.

I am so thankful to the thousands of you who began faxing and phoning campaigns of protest as soon as Sen. Martinez was nominated for the Party leadership. This is a reminder that even when you don't think you are having an effect at first, your pressure can eventually have results.

Thanks to all of you who have told us of returning every Republican solicitation for funds with a note that you won't give another dollar until the Party has leaders who support immigration enforcement. You are having a real effect in gradually purging the Party of supporters of illegal immigration.

I hope all of you who are Democrats are paying attention. Many of you have been doing the same thing with Democratic fund-raising letters. Let's put a lot more pressure on Howard Dean and the pro-amnesty leaders of the Party. It is not an impossible dream that these leaders will start to feel the heat and see the light, as national Republican leaders are starting to do.

THANKS FOR ALL THE MANY WAYS THAT YOU ARE SHIFTING THE POLITICAL BALANCE IN THIS COUNTRY.

THE POWER IS YOURS -- AS YOU USE IT,

Lou,
No, "we" are not all guilty for wanting cheap labors in the United States.
"Cheap labors" is just another word for "peasents and slaves".

You know what. We are not for it. It is disgusting, against every principle this country has stood for since the civil war, and I for one will not let cries of racism or xenophobia, or whatever else they want to shout allow them to bring their cheap labor in. I will not allow them to crush the workers of this country or enslave the workers of another in my name.

So if you are so much for "cheap labor", that is you. I would rather work more myself to ensure my survival or do without a few things, then to enslave another person under the guise of some euphanism "cheap labor"

Immigration policy in a democracy should serve the nations interests. Our immigration policy allows for "Einsteins", so he would not have to be deported, yet the law could still be followed and the purpose of the law not thwarted.

"Having said that, if Einstein was here illegally,today, do you think we would deport him? Hell no, we will give him a free pass, housing and make sure his shoes are shine."

Lou:

Nothing you said, and nothing you could say, could ever justify such a large scale violation of the laws by the 12 to 20 million illegal aliens in this country.

I do not pretend to be a victim in particular. Nor, for that matter, have I benefitted from illegal labor in the manner you suggest. My home was built at a place and time when legal laborers made up the overwhelming majority of the work force in home construction in my town. Furthermore, lower construction costs do not translate into lower housing costs. Those who build and sell houses still demand the same high price for housing regardless of who built it, and they pocket any profit derived from using cheap labor. Thus, regardless of how you look at it, I could not have benefitted from the fact illegal construction workers are paid lower wages.

Moreover, I do not care whether the cost of housing or food goes up as a result of having to enforce the law. If that is the cost of security or the cost of having a nation of laws, then so be it. I prefer to know that our government is doing its job over paying less at the grocery store.

Furthermore, you have overlooked or failed to address several glaring facts, namely:

1. Until we can control our borders and ports, and account for all the people in this country, we can't be secure against those who seek to do us harm. That security cannot be obtained as long as we allow hundreds of thousands of people to stream across our border every year without accounting for their identities or whereabouts. It is just not realistic.

2. The lower prices from illegal aliens performing labor is due, in part, to the fact that many illegal aliens are paid under the table at lower than minimum wage. That means we should be paying more for those goods and services anyway, because employers should be paying lawful workers lawful wages for those same jobs.

3. Many legal laborers would like the jobs in construction now performed by illegal laborers. Thus, you have single-handedly dispelled the myth that illegal aliens only take those jobs that Americans won't take. The illegal construction workers have displaced, and left unemployed, too many American citizens.

4. Unless we enforce the laws, we have no government worth talking about; and,

5. Until the people of Mexico rid themselves of their corrupt Government, no one there will be able to earn a decent living or be able to properly raise their families. No one will force the issue of getting rid of corruption as long as that same corrupt Government is allowed to drive all of its disaffected and disenfranchised citizens north of the border.

Go try and play on someone else’s heart-strings, or guilty conscience. Your golden goose is rotten.

Comprehensive immigration reform failed, securing our borders failed, controlling illegal immigrants failed, is the American people at fault or it is our government who is at fault? Why do the American people have to struggle with this issue created by our government? We are simply voters caught in the middle reacting and treating these people according to what our government, media and tv journalist tells us to do. What happened to the bible which says, love their neighbor as yourselves" How do christians react when our failed government doesn't want Americans to help people in need irregardless if they are illegal. Why is our government breeding hate and bitterness among us? How do you feel if your American families had to be treated this way if you broke similar law in other countries? Do rights only apply to Americans and not foreigners? How can it be the illegal immigrants fault when our government failed to control this issue since amnesty in 1986? The government need to answer to us instead of dodging the questions or assigning blame. Why was this issue not kept under control? Why didn't our government secure the border? Whose fault it is when 911 took place? Have we forgotten that our government makes laws and failed to protect us? Then when 911 happens, we panic. Don't we know that illegal immigration is going to be an ongoing problem? To solve this issue, make comprehensive immigration,guest worker programs,change all social security cards with new strips impossible to duplicate,change passports with strips, federal immigration agents should keep track of visitors in this country by spot checking them, eliminate welfare programs,encourage mexicans to cooperate with our laws to keep this type illegal immigration down. Why do I have to see families cruely broken up and torn apart and say to myself that it is right. How?? So if Sen. Clinton could not give a straight answer, then I think NONE of the candidates can. Either way, the media, journalist and government on both sides will criticize and it will fail again. NO ONE has the balls to do the right HUMANE thing. So people, it is the government who broke our borders and invited illegals to live and propogate. It is our welfare programs, charity that invite people from all over the world to come and take from us. If America were to do a Fica score, it will be in the negatives. NO ONE wants to take the bold move and address this issue. What is wrong with giving these illegals some form of identity, isn't it in our favor to keep a record about who is here and what they are doing? Forget the amnesty word! Think record of everyone here. Then give them some training to learn English and take on jobs Americans won't do,make sure background checks are done and also make sure that they are not abusing our system. Those who are stealing from us, need to pay it back. Everyone has to pay the American people back because most of you have more money than you need..... If you really care about the middle class, give us your check, don't just say, you are on our side. When I see politicians and newsman talk about middle class, I puke. Every one wants our votes, because when you put us all together, we exceed the upperclass, rich pricks. So in order to get our votes, they need to say they care about the middle class, while they collect more $$$$ on our behalf. So please don't pick on Hillary, she is trying to be fair in her answer. She wants what makes sense for our country. I would rather have illegal immigrants documented here. They need to have some form of identity to operate a vehicle, work and live here as long as they obey the law and live as good citizens. They also need to pay back fines in order for us American people to feel that there is some fairness in the law. Nothing is free, and America needs to learn to be united not divisive. Ever since Bush took control, he has preached more hate here and around the world. How can you be in office so long and not take care of this issue? People are people whether you are white, latino, black or yellow. None of us want to be in the shoes of these illegal immigrants, so lets not treat them as criminals. After all they did help in our economy. They have done a lot of good then bad so lets remember the balance of life. Stop picking on Hillary when the men on the stage play the field. Every thing Hillary says and does, every man wants to jump at her like BULLIES!!

The whole isswue of Drivers Licenses for Illegal Aliens is absurd, as if an illegal alien walks into a Government Office they should be arrested and sent back to where they came from. Are these people that want illegals to have Drivers Licenses concerned about the Safety or are they truly trying to mak it easier for them to register to vote as they would then have valid indentification to register to vote?

What about auto insurance? Just because they have a license doesn't mean they will have insurance. Now who is going to bear the cost of licensing non tax paying illegals, teaching them the rules of the road etc..

Think about it: Illegal means against the law in our country without permission, and now we wish to reward you by giving you our permission to legally be on our roads, and since they are paying into Social Security using Stolen identities, we should give them Social Security benefits too.

Hmm what would we do to an American Citizen that stole someone elses Identity and then was caught driving on our roads without a Drivers License,and without Insurance, and evading taxes, in a vehicle that is registered to another State(let alone another country)?

I don't think we would cure the problem by making an exception and giving them a license.

Oh please, lets not be spoiled sports. We already taught them to fly. Now, lets teach ‘em to drive. Get 'em out of the "shadows." After all, Leon Panetta would be the first to remind us that immigrants paved these roads. Besides, what could possibly go wrong: http://theseedsof9-11.com

Hillary Kerry, I mean Hillary Clinton, lol, same difference, the flip-flop twins just can't seem to get there thoughts together. Spitzer of NY thinks that giving driving licences to Illegal immigrants who are already here breaking Federal law is OK. Hillary also condones it too and she confessed that the odds of the Illegals getting into accidents and killing innocents is going to happen and that is still alright with her. Instead of saying these Illegals should be arrested for breaking the law and then deported, she sort of agrees with Spitzer that NY should give them a drivers license which opens the doors for getting just about any kind of legal document to open any kind of business and get all sorts of documents to do anything they want to do, illegal or not, but mostly illegal considering there already here illegal breaking the federal law which Hillary seems to support along with Spitzer. And once the Illegals got the method down on how to do it all, word spreads quickly amongst all the Illegals. The way I see it is this. As long as Spitzer and Hillary approve of giving driving licenses to Illegals, most who can't even speak English and read the signs on the road smash their vehicles into average LEGAL citizens of the US, while high or running drugs or running from the police, it's OK. But the story would be much different of these same Illegals given the right to drive on our roads legally smashed their cars into say, Hillary, her friends and family, Hubby and her powerful friends at work and they were killed or maimed for life like the rest of us commoners are, Hillary and Spitzer would sing a different tune now wouldn't they. When us average folks are maimed and killed on the roads becasue of illegals, no problem, but have Spitzer and family and Hillary and family maimed and killed on the road by the same Illegals that "THEY" couldn't wait to give drivers licenses too, and the whole situation would change. Once Hillary and Spitzer suffered what the rest of us do, they would now go out of their way to make sure Illegals didn't get licences at all and would probably campaign to get all Illegals sent home asap. So until the powers to be suffer like the rest of us do, don't expect any changes soon. When they lose a loved one due to their negligence in supporting Illegal law breaking, should be deported immigrants, only then will things change.

I know we have many immigrants in the armed forces;can someone tell me how many ILLEGAL immigrants are in the armed forces?