Family under fire: Rush and Co. hit on healthcare

Typical right wing response...attack the messenger not the issue.

And this time it's a 12 year old child....about time Rush, Malkin, et al grow up.

This shouldn't surprise anyone. Don't forget the Republican party attacked President Clinton's wife and child when they wanted to stop his policies. Republicans attack and spew hatred at families rather than debate the policy, because that's the only way they can win.

While I do not approve of the one blogger's comments pertaining to the Frost family, that type of comment about people is regular stuff from the Left.

I do have some questions about this family. They say they make between $45,000 and $50,000 a year. They say they still owe on the mortgage for the home, which was purchased for $55,000 in 1990. I see they did refinance a few years ago. They also pay on a mortgage for the warehouse, which was bought for $160,000 in 1999. Well, that is a lot of mortgage payments for their salary, though it seems that after 17-18 years, the $55,000 mortgage on the home should be minimal. In fact, it should be pretty much paid off by now.
They get funding to send the kids to private schools? From where? And why is the Mrs. only working part time, if their finances are in need.
I don't begrudge a family help. The accident and what happened to the kids is terrible. One thing this country is losing though is folks not willing to make sacrifices to make ends meet. My grandfather worked two jobs during the Depression and did other odd jobs to bring in some money. He worked six to seven days a week, 16 hours a day for several years. There are lots of folks who make sacrifices in order to get through rough patches. That is a part of life.

I don't approve of some of the bloggers who have been less than kind to this family. But they've also put themselves, and particularly their kids, in this situation by being used by the Democrats for publicity purposes. There also SEEMS to be some fishy elements to their story and finances. It's also more media gobbledygook.

Good job conservatives. Shamelessly attack a working, middle-class family with viscious lies, threaten to destroy their lives, invade their privacy, send out the conservative police, & publicly hang these parents.

These tactics are no different then what the communists used on people I knew when I was a kid in the old country.

So let me spell this out to the redstate conservatives; you are no different then hardcore communists.

Isn't compassionate conservatism a beautiful thing?

This gives me chills. I'm going to be a lot nicer about what I say in these posts.

Then again, I am a proud progressive who was taught during my left-wing, intee-lect-ual, touchy, feely, nancy-pants California upbringing to take the high road, love your neighbors, avoid ignorant, ill-infomed, cheap shots and NEVER wish death or injury on anyone!

I will never understand the un-evolved meanness of commentators like Rush Limbaugh and his listeners.

I was taught in my West Coast, God-less, politically-correct schools and community that JUDGING people and casting stones is BAD.

ANYWAY - this is a good article. I was taken aback by the Frost's initial income and real estate numbers and the one-dimensional view of their lives but then we get the real breakdown of all those numbers.

I look around my own life and situation and I know my family and I are one terrible car accident (God forbid) away from the Frost's situation.

So scary!

And Rush Limbaugh? Why do we have to hear about him, again? Why didn't he just go away? He seems to have gotten MORE powerful since his little "situation"!

What is this, the DNC web site?

"My grandfather worked two jobs during the Depression and did other odd jobs to bring in some money. He worked six to seven days a week, 16 hours a day for several years. There are lots of folks who make sacrifices in order to get through rough patches. That is a part of life."

Did your grandfather work all those jobs while he had two kids in the hospital for 5 months?

Do you think two parents working multiple jobs might have a negative impact on the recovery of these two children Johnny Compassion? Did you consider that the Mom may only work part time because she now has two special needs children who need every moment of care and help their mother can give them?

Is suggesting that the parents never be around for their children, including 2 who are disabled what you mean by "Family Values"?

This column points out the utter uselessness of anonymous forums. I don't care which side of the health care debate you are on. The problems is, as I see it, idiotic cowards making idiotic comments that are protected by not having to use their names. Maybe, since some of these respondents are so fond of seeing children die or public hangings, they will have no objection when someone threatens to do it to them or a member of their family for their comments.

Wow, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Right wing hacks ALWAYS attach the messenger, and never address the question.

I thought Rush would be gone when he was busted with drugs.

Then I thought Rush would be gone when he was caught coming back from a sex tourism trip with a big bottle of viagra that wasn't his.

I was wrong. Given Rush's totall hypocricy, nastiness and sexual deviancy I guess he is the PERFECT mouthpiece for the GOP.

Being attacked by thugs like Rush is a badge of honor.

But what a sad reflection nevertheless on Amertica's sense of dency.

"great" Americans like Rush make me ashamed to be American.Then you get a gook like John D figuring out there lives. These people need to quit the republican party and join the human race.

I hope we can one day get beyond the idea that treating or talking about people this way is acceptable. It is not.

Nice job Johnny - this hit a new low even for you.

The last time I checked, the "Looney Left" had not published the ADDRESS of someone on the net like your friends at FreeRepublic did.

Oh, and the money for the school? The kids are there on a scholarship. But that is something that you and Rush would not look into. You're too busy throwing out potshots at real working people.

And I love the "get a job line". Why don't YOU call her up and tell her that. YOU call her and tell her to leave her two special ed kids at home so that she can pay for the insurance they need.

You're just like Rush - make the statements, then when you are told to say it to the faces of the people you accuse, you run and hide behind their right wing mommy's skirts.

Why do the people who claim to be "good" Americans...act the least like what America is about?

The fascist tendencies of the far right are again exposed.

An ad questioning a General's honesty is vilified as un-patriotic and treasonous.

Yet a 12 year old boy who appears in an ad is threatened with death along with his whole family.

Dissent is not to be tolerated. The Military is supreme.

I am self-employed and pay $110 per month for catastrophic health care through Blue Cross. If I am hospitalized I am covered for up to $10 million, except for the first $2,000.

I would love for the government to provide me with "free" health care, but I have the feeling that if the Democrats (or even worse the leftist loons on this site) take over health care it will end up costing me a lot more.

What happened to the Frost's is tragic. Anybody who threatens them is despicable. But let's talk about the facts and leave out the histrionics.

John D
You are amazing. Do you want to disclose your financial situation so that the world can appraise whether there is anything "fishy"?
Oh, nevermind, in two years your party's warrentless surveilance policies will allow Hillary to do this.

Why is all of this not surprising? The right wing is mainly composed of moderate to low income people who act, think, and vote against their own interests time and time again. They believe in doing all they can to elevate the rich, but in their heart of hearts will go after one of their kind like fish on a feeding frenzy devouring a sickly member. Michelle Malkin, Rush Limbaugh and all the other gatekeepers for the wealthy have no shame.

[quote]
They say they still owe on the mortgage for the home, which was purchased for $55,000 in 1990. I see they did refinance a few years ago. They also pay on a mortgage for the warehouse, which was bought for $160,000 in 1999. Well, that is a lot of mortgage payments for their salary, though it seems that after 17-18 years, the $55,000 mortgage on the home should be minimal. In fact, it should be pretty much paid off by now.

Posted by: John D | October 10, 2007 8:55 AM
[/quote]

The interest rate and terms of their warehouse mortgage haven't been publicized by the right wingnut dingbats - yet.

By going to www.bankrate.com and entering their house mortgage info: a 30 year mortgage for $55,000 at a 10% rate (what rates jumped up to in 1990), you can see the complete amortization table. At the beginning of the 15th year they still would owe $46,148.15. Yet John "the Joseph Stalin of Streamwood" D insults them by saying that they should have paid this off more than 10 years early. Where would they have gotten the money to do this while they're paying on the mortgage for the warehouse and the medical bills for their children?

Oh Johnny "Pizza D"elivery guy, please PROVE that Republic party politicians have NEVER used children as backdrops for their photo-ops.

Heck, we'd settle for you providing a link that PROVES that John Edwards pays as much for his suits as Bush does. You've only had almost 2 months to do it. Since you haven't proven your allegation, when will you grow a spine, BE A MAN, and admit that you FABRICATED THIS "FACT"?

Wow, the brain dead Leftists are all in a blather.

"Anonymous," my grandparents had four kids, so my grandfather worked two full-time jobs as well as the occasional odd job with four kids to care for as well. But as the wage earner, he did what he had to do so his family had a roof over their heads and food on the table.

John A., I don't recall disclosing my financial situation.

And Bobin, hmmmmm, seems to me the "Loony Left," which you are a part of, have disclosed by hometown, my workplace website, my boss's name, my workplace e-mail address and my last name. And the Loony Left has even posted as me in the Swamp, in Eric Zorn's blog and with a load of crap attached to my name. What else you got, creep?

if this family is so destitute and can't afford health care for themselves, why the hell did they decide to have kids (4 of them)? i have a friend that has been married for about 5 years now, they make decent money and live confortably, they realize that children can be expensive and are saving enough money to take care of a child without going into dept. what ever happened to being responsible for your own family? i feel for them, and wish them well, but stop making your problems my problems. there are programs in every state that help cover health costs for poor. is that not enough? now we have to cover health costs for people that could afford it if they tried.

"But as the wage earner, he did what he had to do so his family had a roof over their heads and food on the table."

How many jobs did your grandmother hold down? Sounds "fishy" to me if she wasn't holding down at least two. The kids just took care of themselves, right? How many of those kids were disabled John?

Who would you like to care for the Frosts kids while they work two jobs six or seven days a week?

For you to hold your grandparents ups as in some way more responsible than these parents is just appalling John. But then again why should we expect any better from you?

Yet another astonishing attack from the family values crowd. It doesn’t surprise me when the rightwing-nuts try to pull off this inflation of a hard working families assets and then try to crucify them with it. First of all these republic nut jobs have no idea what it’s like to get by on a normal working mans salary, second, people like Rush Limp should be sued for slander. That might be one way to keep their mouths shut and make them understand that your responsible for what you say and will be held accountable for damaging the reputation of people by spreading lies on the public air waves.
This is one families story that should remind all of us that were just one serious illness away from financial ruin, and the number one critical issue we should address domestically is healthcare. It’s the reason employers move their manufacturing overseas, because of the affects on American wages. It’s also the cause of the majority of bankruptcies, and that’s not good for anyone, working people or businesses.

they should have been more responsible in planning thier family. my wife and i decided to stop at 1 child because that was the finacially resposible thing to do. i'm tired of seeing these people that smoke and waste thier money on things they dont need talk about they are struggling to support themselves and thier 5-6 kids. these people are having children and not thinking about how to pay for them. don't worry, i will be forced to pay for them instead!

brian-

Would you have prefered they have an abortion instead?

Or should they just have euthanized the two injured children when they couldn't pay the hospital bills?

"if this family is so destitute and can't afford health care for themselves, why the hell did they decide to have kids (4 of them)? i have a friend that has been married for about 5 years now, they make decent money and live confortably, they realize that children can be expensive and are saving enough money to take care of a child without going into dept. what ever happened to being responsible for your own family? i feel for them, and wish them well, but stop making your problems my problems. there are programs in every state that help cover health costs for poor. is that not enough? now we have to cover health costs for people that could afford it if they tried."

You are blindsided by your greed and selfishness. Do you realize that kids today will actually pay for your social security, medicare, and plus all government debts in the future? If everyone is like your friend, the population growth will be ZERO. Which means our govt. will have no money to spend. We will quickly degrade into a third world country or have to increase this country's VISA's to foreigners.

So having kids do matter! They make this country strong. They support you and all the generations ahead of them. They protect our country (afterall, who will fight our wars? I don't see a long line of older folks in line to join the military).

Posted as you on blogs?? Heavens to Betsy, that is just terrible!!! I bet that those posts were more intelligent than most of yours.

But how many people read the blogs that your information was on as opposed to "Free Republic"?? How many have driven by your house or your work? How many have posted messages on a blog that call you the names that this family was called?? Better yet, how many people have gone on national radio and said those things about you??

Finally, you ignored most of my post - the part about saying the things you did to this family's face. What about that, "creep"?

And "I guess" - you said you pay $110 a month for CATASTROPHIC insurance!!! Not for normal health insurance - you are not covered if you go to the doctor for a cold or some ailment. So you are saying this family should only have your insurance??? Please.

Oh, and Johnny? Compare the cost of living then with your grandfather to what it is now.

rory m., we "ultra weathy" republicans don;t know how it feels? i'm not rich, i make an average living and have bills to pay like anyone else. the only differce is that i don't EXPECT the goverment to pay my bills for me. i take pride in the paying them myself. we live in such an "entitlement mentality" world today. what do you expect the goverment to do to help them? after that then whats the next entitlement? maybe we should let them stay home with the kids and pay ALL the bills for them, maybe then they'll be happy. MAYBEE!

to the right - you are way wrong - to the left - you are just as wrong (if not more so)

the problem here is that the insurance industry is essentially never held accountable by the republicans or democrats - you don't have to look far to see that the industry contributes heavily to both BOTH parties - if the industry were held accountable, then there would be no need to expand schips to the upper middle class families (as defined by income or assets) who receive most of their income from self employment - affordable insurance would be available to those working families -- but is either party going to do the right thing ???? NO - instead the dems will try to exploit this child in order to expand government entanglement into every aspect of our lives - why ??? because that is their ultimate objective anyway - there are no more libertarian and liberty minded persons left in the democratic party - just fascists ! if the republicans were not taking the insurance money and leaving those companies unaccountable, then they would have the high moral ground here - but they won't so they don't - then it becomes a farce about whose crap doesn't stink and they lie, lie and lie some more about the other side - both parties are filled with liars and cowards and self-righteous pigs

little tom - the independent MD

Mark Steyn said more, which sort of sums up what the conservative argument is. Steyn mentioned that Mr. Frost's father was an executive vice president for one company, a longtime consultant, and for many years in upper management at Bendix. Here's Steyn:

So executive vice-presidents' families are now the new new poor? I support lower taxes for the Frosts, increased child credits for the Frosts, an end to the "death tax" and other encroachments on transgenerational wealth transfer, and even severe catastrophic medical-emergency aid of one form or other. But there is no reason to put more and more middle-class families on the government teat, and doing so is deeply corrosive of liberty.

Hmmm, who knew that Steyn's platforms might have helped the Frost's at less expense to the taxpayer?

The issue is spending money for health care on people who don't need it.President Reagan and all conservatives believe in a safety net for the most vulnerable poor people not for people who make $83,000 why can't they pay for their kids health insurance. Why do you liberals want to confiscate it from our checkbooks? Our money is not the governments to do with as you leftists please. Jerry White, Springfield, IL

Ever-so-clueless Bobin, cost of living during Depression as opposed to now? Give me a break!

Anyway, in regard to your other blatherings, I've had Lefty morons send me crap in the mail. God only knows if any of them have driven by my home. Wouldn't put it past some. Finally, when it comes to hate, vile and nonsense, the comments from the Left on their blogs and in general blogs far surpasses anything coming from the Right, in numbers and in hate.
And, as far as intelligence is concerned, I have yet to come across one Lefty who has the intelligence of a kindergartner, much less even coming close to me. Liberalism is not about intelligent thinking but what feels good emotionally.

anonymous, no, they should have PLANNED for the kids before they made them. they should have figured that after having the first or even second one that they can't afford anymore kids, and stopped having more.

John D-

Why so agitated? Don't you like anyone questioning you and your families sense of superiority?

How many jobs did your grandmother hold?

How many disabled children were your grandparents raising?

Who is supposed to care for the Frost's children while they both hold down 2 jobs 6 or 7 days a week as you demand?

well said, earning 55k a year does not make you poor, it does force you to make resposible choices in life. "we have a household income of 55k a year, lets triple our morgage payment and have 4 kids". is that responsible? i'm only interested in helping people who want to help themselves, not look for a handout because they cant manage thier family budget. the husband needs to get another job to pay his bills. or at least, a better paying one.

After conservatives went after the Frost family in the vile, despicable way they did, I have one question; How does this help promote the conservative agenda & get more of you elected?

Does any of you understand you should stop digging when at the bottom of a hole?

Brian,
Clearly 4 kids is too many to the Compassionate Conservative Family Values crowd. That is why the right wing blogosphere has published this family's address. One of your right wing disciples will receive the subliminal message and murder the "undesireable" children. Problem solved, right buddy?

lou, we're not blindsided by greed, we're blindsided by COMMON SENSE! unlike most, i am not relying on todays kids to pay my social security, i'm making sacrifices now, to ensure my own retirement money. its called ira's and investment accounts. besides, if these kids are going to be so poor and imporverished, how are they going to pay my social security? i haven't charged up a fortune on credit cards and expensive car payments. I LIVE WITHIN MY MEANS!

Brian-

could you and your wife afford to care for your child if the were severely injured in a accident, spent 5 months in the hospital, were permantently disabled and need additional care for the rest of their natural lives?

Could you afford that if you were fired from your job tomorrow?

If not, you'd best do the responsible thing and put your child up for adoption, because there are circumstances where you may not be able to afford to care for the child without assistance in the future.

Funny how the neo-cons opposed healthcare reform in the 90s and now bash this family for not bleeding themselves white to pay health costs. If all was well with the world then yes they would have options but the neo-cons made sure none of us working americans have options, while the health insurance industry and drug companies rake it in. And that fat pompous drug addict Limbaugh should just keep shooting off his ugly mouth. He convenientlty exposes this crowd just for who they really are.

Chapter 138 of Liberals proclaiming "We're allowed to criticize you, but don't you dare criticize us," with that devotion to free speech and intellectual inquiry that always distinguishes the political Left.

Since the article doesn't link to the conservative side, I will. The best roundup I've found is at www.michellemalkin.com.

This isn't the first time that a Dem Party poster child has later been discovered to be not what the Dems claimed.

"Hang 'em. Publically," the contributor wrote. "Let 'em twist in the wind and be eaten by ravens. Then maybe the bunch of socialist patsies will think twice."

Malkin wrote that the Democrats' use of Graeme Frost to deliver the radio address was "poster child abuse"; Limbaugh told listeners that Democrats had "filled this kid's head with lies."

Yep - those sure are nice words from the right.

roman b., i'm not running for office, as far as the conservative agenda goes, if a conservative politician does'nt have the B*lls to say what they really believe, they're not worth voting for! the dems can't say what they really think (outside of appeasing the far left kooks) because they'd all be out of a job! or convicted of treason.

I just skipped over the article, but didn't the three previous Baltimore Sun articles simply take Democratic Party talking points at face value and present a sympathetic view of the Frosts instead of, you know, doing that whole "journalism" thing and looking into their claims?

Perhaps the Baltimore Sun realizes that they look like Democratic Party-controlled hacks and that's why they have to smear those who, you know, do that whole "real journalism" thing instead of simply retransmitting Democratic Party press releases.

"Chapter 138 of Liberals proclaiming "We're allowed to criticize you, but don't you dare criticize us," with that devotion to free speech and intellectual inquiry that always distinguishes the political Left."

Bruce- did you defend the General Betrayus ad as "free speech"?

Is saying that the Frosts should be publically hung and eaten by ravens speech and intellectual inquiry that you support?

romenb, i agree, i think that some of the conservative's were mean and very hateful in regards to the frost family. this is the GREATEST country on earth, as far as i'm concerned, i agree that it is our moral responsibily to help people in need, but, we should also show them how to help themselves. theres an old saying that i'm sure you've heard: give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. teach the man to fish and he'll eat everyday.

no john, i already stated that one should PLAN a family that they can afford to take care of. NOT kill the undesired kids. wear a f*cking condom. if you were having trouble making ends meet, would you think that having more kids is a good idea? don't twist my words!

anonymous, good question. i am fortunate that that has'nt happened to us. but, god forbid it did, i may have enough savings for a while, not indefinately. it is also my responibility as the husbaand and father to do whatever it takes to keep the household running. there are already state and government programs that i might have to use to help out. like i said, i'm not opposed to helping them, (i do pay my fair share of taxes), i just don't like the idea of socializing healthcare. off to lunch, be back soon.

:"i agree that it is our moral responsibily to help people in need, but, we should also show them how to help themselves."

Well, then you should support the Frosts.

Halsey Frost is self employeed. He's trying to build a business up to support his family and make his and his families life better.

Isn't that the American Dream that conservatives pay such lip service to?

Instead the vicious right attacks him, his wife and his children when he speaks up for people who sometimes need some help from the government like his family did.

Halsey doesn't need sneering lessons from you on how to fish. He's out there with his pole everyday.

You gotta love the Rescumlicans. "A 12 year old is fair game."

Who cares about facts, they are opposed to Dear Leader, and therefore must be demonized.

Brucebot even links to the scumbag Malkin who has posted these folks home address and has refused to take it down. Thanks Bruce. Now you've confirmed that you're just as scummy as Ms Anchorbaby herself.

"If federal funds were required [they] could die for all I care. Let the parents get second jobs, let their state foot the bill or let them seek help from private charities. ... I would hire a team of PIs and find out exactly how much their parents made and where they spent every nickel. Then I'd do everything possible to destroy their lives with that info."

Wow, I didn't know Bruce worked for Redstate.com.

the frosts are in the possition to pay for thier own heathcare. they chose not to because they are automatically covered anyway. this shouldn't even be an issue since they recieved free care. the programs are'nt broke, they don't need to get bigger. by the way, i think its great that mr. frost is trying to build his own business, but if its not enough to cover your houshold expenses, maybe it's time to change gears. the problem with healthcare in theis country is that people don't consider it a high priority, they'd rather put thier money towards a nicer car, or expensive dinners, etc. "if i get ill, the state & feds will pick up the tab" a family with an income of less than 82k a year should by no means be considered poor. by the way, how is a person under 25yrs. considered a child?

Halsey doesn't need sneering lessons from you on how to fish. He's out there with his pole everyday.

then he should try changing his bait. IF YOU CANNOT PROVIDE (or will not) FOR THE BASIC NEEDS FOR YOUR FAMILY, THEN YOU ARE A FAILURE AS A HUSBAND AND FATHER! PERIOD.

You gotta love the Rescumlicans. "A 12 year old is fair game."

no, the kid got his care! why is this even an issue? what the hell do you want me to do? write these people a personal check? the CURRENT program worked perfectly. whats the problem?

:"i agree that it is our moral responsibily to help people in need, but, we should also show them how to help themselves."

Well, then you should support the Frosts.

i think that the program should be only available to those who really are poor and without means. if you can afford healthcare you should buy it, or "roll the dice" most people just "roll the dice" at what point do you consider an able bodied family poor? 82k? 50K? 25-K?

"Hang 'em. Publically," the contributor wrote. "Let 'em twist in the wind and be eaten by ravens. Then maybe the bunch of socialist patsies will think twice."

its statements like this creep made that make me sick. i am a conservative and would never say anything this. the frosts are human beings, and deserve to be treated such. the only problem that i have is the media showing how oppressed ad povery stricken they are. look at the picture of them, they look sad with those "puppy dog eyes.

Regardless of the family economic standing of Frost family, the Democratic sponsers of the child health care bill is trying to do a wonderful public service for our younger generation. Put money out of the care for the kids. Defenseless kids should never be rejected for medical treatment for not having insurance. People please grow up---out all so called "1st world countries" only USA does not have a publically runned medical system for the good of all it's people. Peoples right to Universal Healthcare should be written into the universal declaration of human rights in the UN.

So Brian, what your posts seem to say is: If tragedy strikes you and your family should lose everything you own and live in a box before help is given you. Any person , no matter how hard they work, is a failure if at any point they need help making ends meet.

You, my friend, are the failure. A failure has a human being, as you show not one shred of empathy or consideration for your fellow human being, only judgement and derision. Just remember that could be you next week. I truly hope others would be more understanding toward you, than you have been to the Frosts.

"well said, earning 55k a year does not make you poor, it does force you to make resposible choices in life. "we have a household income of 55k a year, lets triple our morgage payment and have 4 kids"

Brian??

So you are saying that the Frosts were making $55,000 a year and THEN decided to have 4 kids?

Did they have them all at once?

I would be willing to bet that they were NOT making $55,000 when their first child was born.

Brucey:

Michelle Malkin???? Are you KIDDING me?? What drugs are you on?? This is the same woman that said the Japanese SHOULD have been interred in the camps during WWII. You hold her out as the source??

chanaka, there IS free healthcare for the truly poor. its still better than any other country offers. for instance, if a poor person gets ill and goes to a hospital, they ARE cared for. even thier prescriptions costs are covered 100%. the problem with installing a socialized heathcare system is the quality and promptness of the care is compromised. look at canada, my best friends aunt, (about 50 yrs old) was diagnosed with cancer, by the time she was eligible for treatment she was told it was no longer treatable. it took her almost a year of waiting. do you think that our doctors &surgens are going to take a severe pay decrease to perform the same procedures, no of course not. you will see incompetants and "quacks" doing it. we have the best care than any other country because we promote competion within the medical society and care providers. if countries like canada have such a great system, why is it almost broke, and people from around the world are coming here to take advantage of our doctors and hospitals? healthcare is expensive, and it suckshaving to pay so much for it, but, i'd rather pay for good care, than get bad care for free. wouldnt you?

And of course, the Republicans would NEVER use a family to push their agenda!!!!!

Remember Terri Schiavo?? The woman that Bush flew back to DC at midnight to sign that unconstitional bill for? Or how about the stem cell veto - all those kids around him who were test tube babies????

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!!

oh, im sorry, is the u.n. going to pay for it? i don't think you understand how expensive it reall is for a country (especially who's use to our level of care) is. HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE! by the time we payed for it in our tax increases, we could of just bought it ourselves! maybe a little less because you will now also have to pay for all the beurocracy to monitor and organize it. where do you think the money is going to come from? and don't even say the iraq war! your thoughts and intensions are good, but unrealistic.

anonymous, HOW AM I A FAILURE? I HAVE A GREAT JOB, AND PROVIDE FOR MY FAMILY! the point i'm trying to convey is that the frosts GOT MEDICAL CARE FREE OF CHARGE!! how can we improve the program any more than that? thier care is courtesy of the AMERICAN TAXPAYER and that's fine, but how do you figure they are poor? they could pay for healthcare if they wanted to. why dont i just give everything to the "poor" and live off the system too? HEALTHCARE SHOULD BE PROVIDED TO PEOPLE THAT CANNOT PAY FOR IT! NOT PEOPLE WHO WON'T! how dare you call me a failure? if it were'nt for people like me, you losers of society would really be f*ucked! show some common sense a**hole!

so you're admitting that the left is using this family to push thier agenda? all they are trying to do is grow thier power over our lives by "fixing" a program that is'nt broken. besides, what the hell does terri shiavo have to do with free healthcare?

You obviously did not read my post, Brian - I said that the Republicans use people all the time to advance their AGENDAS.

And I am not saying this family was used - the Republicans are the holier than thou people who are accusing Democrats of this.

we are not far off from a sunni-shia kind of state. When people write things like this about this family, it is only a matter of time before the real violence starts. We have posters yelling at each other, anonyomous using every **** words he can find. This is what the trouble of STARTING and APPROVING of personal attack politics. We might as well start spliting the country down the middle and choosing which side we want. How anyone can approve of this kind of attack on anyone for this kind of reason is beyond me. God help us because we are going to need it.

Brian??

So you are saying that the Frosts were making $55,000 a year and THEN decided to have 4 kids?

Did they have them all at once?

I would be willing to bet that they were NOT making $55,000 when their first child was born.

what? i make double what they make. you dont see 8 kids running around my house. my wife and i have 1 child, well WITHIN my means to provide for. i bet these people are swimming in credit card dept too, they seem to be the type to overspend. if i had a wife and 4 kids, i guarantee i would'nt sleep until i made a hell of alot more than 55k. we should have pity on the under-achiever. 55k a year is hardly enough for a good bachelor lifestyle, let alone a family of 6!

Republicans have used children for photo-ops. What do you call Bush using the snowflake children as a photo op for his veto of the stem-cell bill? The fact is you guys on the right are afraid of the fallout of this veto. Why would you attack a 12 year old and why would that red stater who is no better than a TERRORIST wish death upon them? Why did Bush hide from the public view when he vetoed the bill? You conservatives always talk about getting by on your own, but when a disaster strikes, all that self-reliant talk goes out the window.

President Bush encouraged 9 states to cover not only kids but poor adults too, mostly poor parents under SCHIP when Republicans controlled congress. Now he’s cynically playing politics trying to look fiscally “responsible” by scuttling the whole program. That won’t happen but it will cost Illinois alone an extra $75 million to push these adults into Medicaid according to the Tribune, by far a more expensive program to both Illinois and federal taxpayers than SCHIP.

That makes no financial sense at all. But then our whole hodge podge healthcare system which is twice as expensive as most other countries in the world doesn't either. Hopefully it will make no political sense either when the American people kick the Republican party to the curb next year.

Brian-

Money is not the only measure of success in life. There are many ways to be a failure.

By the way, the US spends more per capita on healthcare than any nation on earth, and does not recieve the highest quality healthcare.

http://www.who.int/whr/2000/media_centre/press_release/en/index.html

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0505/p02s01-uspo.html

bill r, that's a good idea, we should split the country in half and pick sides. wait, we cant do that, who would pay for all the welfare and entitlement programs for the dem's side. they certainly can't they only make 55k a year! the dems policy of bashing and trashing the right is going to lead to thier own demise. they dont seem to remember that we are in America, and they have unlimited resources at thier disposal. you're all hillary's b*tches! if "universal healthcare" is so worth fighting for, why didnt they try harder 14 years ago? its all a smoke and mirrors attempt at getting more power.

"...more media gobbledygook."

read: 'facts'

John D's problem, like so many of the fascist fringe is that anytime 'facts' get in the way of the their ideological driven rants it's labeled 'media golbbledygook'.

have another sip of kool-aid, and rant on. your aggressive ignorance amuses me, and, i'm watching you...closely.

This Viet Vet will NOT go quietly into the night.

i bet these people are swimming in credit card dept too, they seem to be the type to overspend.
Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2007 4:42 PM

Of course you would know that. You make twice what they make.

55k a year is hardly enough for a good bachelor lifestyle, let alone a family of 6!
Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2007 4:42 PM

Why that good education and hard work "has" done so much for you. Yes you really are a self-made man aren't you. By the way, how did that k-12 free education work for you? I believe you are a legend in your own mind.

This whole right-wing argument is so bizarre; they want to have their cake and eat it too. They comment nastily that the Frosts shouldn't have had kids they can't afford - but, remember, righties, you're all against both birth control AND abortion! So now you're suggesting that the Frosts perhaps should have aborted 2 of their children...?

You'd think that the Frosts epitomize the very picture of Republican America - dad is a small business owner, mom has only a part-time job so she can stay home and raise her children. I thought Republicans held motherhood and stay-at-home moms sacred - you know, that standard American "nuclear family" they're always blathering about? And yet, the righties here are belitting Mrs. Frost for not working harder, or having TWO jobs...? And they're excoriating Mr. Frost for mortgaging his house to buy and finance his own business...?

I'm so very confused at this point.

What is it that you righties want anyway??

Sometimes, I think you just hate EVERYBODY who isn't just exactly like you.

they certainly can't they only make 55k a year
Posted by: Anonymous | October 10, 2007 4:52 PM

I think we have had this conversation before ..haven't we small change.

It's difficult to understand why the Repugs support a multi-billion dollar insurance industry that works against their interests. Then again, it's easy to understand, after reading the ignorant, misspelled, ungrammatical and factually challenged posts of the Right WingNuts.

Spell much, Brian? Try spell check. It helps.

WHY DON'T WE ALL JUST SELL ALL OUR BELONGINGS (CARS HOMES AND EVERYTHING ELSE OF MONITARY VALUE), AND SHARE ALL OF IT TOGETHER? THE HOMELESS AND WEALTHY CAN BOTH DRIVE NEW CADILLACS AND EAT FINE FOOD. I GATHER THAT YOU ALL WOULD BE TOTALLY HAPPY WITH THAT? WE CAN PULL OUT OF IRAQ, AND INVITE ALL THE TERRORISTS OVER FOR TEA. THEY'D LEARN TO LIKE US, RIGHT? WE CAN KICK BUSH AND ALL HIS UNHOLY MINIONS OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE, AND INSTALL HILLARY AS OUR SOVORIEGN QUEEN (OR KING). DOESNT THAT SOUND GREAT? WE CAN HAVE UNICORN PETTING ZOOS, AND SINCE DOCTORS WILL NOW WORK FREE, WE CAN EVEN HAVE UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE FOR OUR DOGS & CATS too. "GLOBAL WARMING" WOULD BE SOLVED BECAUSE THE OIL COMPANIES WOULD BE OUT OF BUSINESS. WE CAN TAKE OUR FAMILIES ON VACATION ON HORSEBACK, (ONLY WITH THE HORSE'S WRITTEN CONSENT OF COURSE). SINCE WE'LL ALL BE EQUALLY POOR, THE UNIVERSITIES CAN CLOSE DOWN AND WE CAN TURN THEM INTO HURRICANE SHELTERS. THE HURRICANES, WILL SOON CEASE TO EXIST SINCE "GLOBAL WARMING" IS NO LONGER AN ISSUE. DICK CHENEY WONT BE BLOWING UP THE LEVIES, BECAUSE HE'LL BE TOO BUSY SHOOTING PEOPLE IN THE FACE. OUR TROOPS COULD BE EMPLOYED AT THE WHITEHOUSE AS THE ROYAL FAMILY'S PERSONAL WAITSTAFF. BILL CAN FINALLY TURN THE LINCOLN BEDROOM INTO A FIRST CLASS BROTHEL, (AND NOT GET IN TROUBLE FOR IT). WE CAN HAVE RUSH LIMBAUGH TURN HIS SHOW OVER TO THE EVER SO TRUSTWORTHY SANDY BURGLAR. WE CAN MELT DOWN ALL OUR GUNS AND TURN THEM INTO OFFSHORE WINDMILLS. you have all convinced me that you are completely and entirely off the wall stupid. i am now ending my contact with you for today, because i've got to go pay my taxes now. wait, should i bother?

This family, no matter what their financial situation, suffered a horrible tragedy and needed help. They got it. Good for them.

Brian-

I think you missed your medication. Go take your pills and calm down.

quote
Anyway, in regard to your other blatherings, I've had Lefty morons send me crap in the mail. God only knows if any of them have driven by my home. Wouldn't put it past some. Finally, when it comes to hate, vile and nonsense, the comments from the Left on their blogs and in general blogs far surpasses anything coming from the Right, in numbers and in hate.
And, as far as intelligence is concerned, I have yet to come across one Lefty who has the intelligence of a kindergartner, much less even coming close to me. Liberalism is not about intelligent thinking but what feels good emotionally.

Posted by: John D
/quote
Sounds like he feels..."superior"

addendum: The vile things said by right wing pundents in public is ok with these folks...but they don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot.

Too bad there are so many ugly Americans. I sometimes wonder why they are so angry...all of the time. Always lashing out at anyone they can vilify.

The right has a simple forumla...one they learned from..well imperialists from the past.
1. Attack
2. Render them irrelivant
3. Vilify them
works great.
disgusting

you ALL amaze me - there IS a central problem here - health insurance is not affordable to the middle class unless it is included as part of your job benefits (and sometimes difficult to afford even then) - why is this so ?? is it because doctors are getting richer ? NO -- is it because nurses are getting richer ?? NO -- is it because doctors are too stupid to make appropriate choices for their patients ??? NO -- IT IS BECAUSE THE HEALTH INSURANCE INDUSTRY IS NOT HELD ACCOUNTABLE AND THEREFORE CHOOSES EXTREME PROFITS OVER ORDINARY PROFITS AS ANY INDUSTRY WOULD DO IF HELD UNACCOUNTABLE IN A SIMILAR MANNER - WHO LETS THEM GET AWAY WITH THIS ??? ANSWER THE DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS - BOTH - WHY ??? BECAUSE THE DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS ARE EACH BOUGHT AND PAID FOR BY THIS INDUSTRY -- THE DEMOCRATIC SOLUTION - A GOVERNMENT PROGRAM EXPANSION (WHO WOULD HAVE THUNK ?) AND THEN THEY USE AN INNOCENT KID TO TRY TO SELL THEIR STUPID, IGNORANT IDEA !!! WHY ??? BECAUSE THEY ONLY CARE ABOUT TWO THINGS (AND THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE KIDS OR THE COUNTRY) - THE TWO THINGS THE DEMOCRATS CARE ABOUT ARE A) MORE DEMOCRATIC CONTROL OF GOVERNMENT AND B) MORE GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF EVERYTHING - AND SO WHAT IS THE BRILLIANT REPUBLICAN RESPONSE ???? "THE DEMOCRATS IDEA IS TOO EXPENSIVE" -- DO THEY HAVE A SOLUTION TO THE REAL PROBLEM ??? NO - DO THEY OFFER A SOLUTION TO THE REAL PROBLEM ??? - NO, AGAIN !!!! INSTEAD THEY TRY TO PLAY HOLIER THAN THOU WITH A NEWFOUND EFFORT TO BE FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE WHICH WOULD BE A GREAT THING EXCEPT A) THEY ARE FISCALLY IRRESPONSIBLE IN PRACTICALLY EVERY OTHER WAY ... AND B) THEY OFFER NO REAL SOLUTIONS HERE AND ... C) THEY ATTACK AN INNOCENT FAMILY TO MAKE THEIR POINT -- THE MOST EXTREME ATTACKS ARE WITHOUT QUESTION UNREPRESENTATIVE OF THE REPUBLICANS AT LARGE BUT WHAT DO THE SUPPORTERS OF DEMOCRATS THEN DO ???? ATTACK THE MOST EXTREME EXAMPLES OF ATTACKS AS IF THEY ARE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE REPUBLICANS AS A WHOLE - WHY ??? SO THEY CAN PRETEND TO BE "HOLIER" WHEN IN ACTUALITY THEIR IDEAS WOULD DO EVEN MORE HARM THAN THE REPUBLICANS - NOT ONLY BECAUSE THEY NEVER ADDRESS THE REAL PROBLEMS IN THE FIRST PLACE BUT ALSO BECAUSE THEY END UP MAKING IT HARDER FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS TO AFFORD ANYTHING - THE WHOLE DAMMMMMMM THING IS A CIRCUS !!!!

little t tom , the independent MD

If citizens aren't for making ALL children, and their health, a priority, then what ARE they for? Oil companies? Pervert evangelists? Closeted politicians acting creepy in public loos? Paris Hilton? What are these "values" those on the right keep touting, and why don't they practice the ones they trumpet ? (Like "hard work". When has Bush ever worked, instead of being handed everything? And sex only within the bounds of marriage? Shøøø; Right!!!
What can possibly be a better priority than every single American child? It's as though we're living during the French Revolution again--but instead of the sans-culottes trying to take power AWAY from the rich and useless, they're trying to give them MORE power! "Here, Very Wealthy Person! Take my last potato! I was going to feed my family with it, but you deserve it SO much more..." Would people really rather have their taxes going to the richest 1 percent of the country, instead of coming back to them in the form of a safety net for their own kids? The middle and working classes have done a lot for the very richest in the USA--but why? What have the weathiest done for the rest of the population?

Hey small change...you know who I'm talking too right? I can feel you right now griting your teeth and coming up with a few mor b*tches and f*cks and all that other grammer they taught you on your way to the big time. I just wanted to know...since I pay more in taxes than you make all year or that I donated to Katrina more money than you make all year..doesn't that make me twice the man you are?

Once upon a time anonymous messages were scrawled on public restroom walls -- that's where they belong.

I know there are kind-hearted, intelligent people out there who hold conservative views. But the collection of deranged, malicious, ignorant, illiterate, red-faced, spittle-spraying morons spouting right-wing nonsense on this thread is truly something to behold!

once more before i go, I DID'NT SUGGEST THAT THEY ABORTED THE KIDS. I SAID THAT HE SHOULD HAVE WORE A CONDOM IF HE COULDNT AFFORD THEM. THIS IS NOT A QUESTION OF ABORTION, ITS A QUESTION OF FERTILIZATION WITHOUT THE MEANS TO SUUPORT THE KIDS. FUTHERMORE, I DO KNOW HOW TO SPELL, dumb*ss, I AM TYPING IN A HURRY BECAUSE I DO ALSO HAVE A JOB TO DO. I'M NOT LAYING AROUND IN MY $55K SHACK. I THINK I KNOW WHY YOU ALL ARE SO HELL BENT ON THIS ISSUE, YOURE ALL LAZY BUMS WHO ARE JELOUS OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE JOBS, AND LIVES! THIS POOR "THING" HITS CLOSE TOP HOME, DOES IT?

Republicans are, for the most part, cowards. They attack the messenger--anonymously, if possible--and shout their false patriotism at everyone else.

Republicans are cowards and failed Americans.

Brian has lost his mind. Just leave him alone.

I'm a middle-aged husband who's self-employed. I went for years without insurance because it cost less for me to pay my expenses out-of-pocket, rather than purchase insurance. I make far less than the proposed SCHIP limit, and have two kids at home. My wife was injured 2 1/2 years ago, when we didn't have insurance, and I continued to pay the expenses (even though they run into five figures each year). Because of her injury, she's been unable to work. To put a limit on our costs, I did what had to be done to put myself into a position to buy insurance, and now I pay several thousand dollars each year to keep my family covered. I'm not looking to the government to pay for my insurance, and I'm not looking to the government to pay the medical expenses. I have been determined to be self-reliant. If it comes to it, we'll sell our house to pay the bills. If the government expands the SCHIP program, I'll end up paying more taxes to either (a) cover more people who could cover their own medical expenses; or (b) obtain insurance to help them. Even though my family would be eligible under the expanded SCHIP program, I prefer to be responsible for my family, and not pass the burden on to other taxpayers. As for other comments wishing ill for the Frosts, they are not representative of most "right-wing nut jobs" as so many of you call us conservatives.

some people miss having a middle class and would like to see it's return.

some people will say and do ANYTHING to deride "social programs" while pumping our tax dollars up the butts of corporations without shame.

so, they should have gone broke fixing their kids? maybe they could sleep in a refrigerator box? what the hell is wrong with you people?

just like s.s. - they hate it because it works and that's why they want to destroy it.

When is someone going to put a stop to Limbaugh, Malkin, and the kooks who pant at their every word? When are the news media going to start pointing out how these right-wing blowhards carp about funding people who need help, yet support policies by their useless president that are bankrupting us--and our children? When will the Democrats learn that they need to bejust as tough and tenacious in fighting back. Dukakis, Gore, and Kerry didn't learn. Malkin and Limbaugh and anyone who parrots their filth are traitors and should be treated accordingly.

Brian,
I would really feel sorry for you except you are dangerous....why so threatening? Why can't republicans deal with the fact that someone else may not ever agree with them about some things?

Why does it have to be all or nothing. You vilify a health program for every American as Socialism...yet you have a social network of police and firefighters...why is that not considered communism?
It's just what you have been told to be upset about and you comply happily.

The GOP will stoop as low as possible.

Ruining an already stressed out family because they speak out for children's addt'l. healthcare.

And this is a free country?

Just a side note:In Kentucky, Wisconsin and other states many fundementalist and evangelical ministers with small congregations rely on state funded programs like Badger care to provide insurance for themselves and their families. In response to my question about how this fit in with the conservative political stand against socialized medicine one recipient explained that they were "doing God's work" and felt an exception should be made in recognition of their sacrifices.Go figure.

what is truly dangerous is ........ that so many like those writing here so desparately wanting to pretend that expanding programs OR ignoring problems will FIX this serious problem of unaffordable health care - a problem that is not even being realistically addressed at all - by either side - the democrat "solution" is like a man who is in debt way over his head who cashes his paycheck early with a heavy penalty paid - then instead of taking that cash and buying some new tires so he can get to work safely, he spends the money on booze to feel better about his situation and heads to the racetrack to gamble his way out of debt - it is more likely that he will kill some innocent person on the way to the race track than it is likely that he will win enough money to get out of debt - yet if he did happen by chance to win, then someone at the racetrack might use his "success" story in an ad for more gambling - the republican solution is like a man who sees a problem coming but instead of making tough choices or trying something radical (like cashing his check early) tells himself that ignoring the problem is at least smarter than what the drunk did with his paycheck -- what is really scary here is that the supporters of both the democrats and republicans would rather argue with each other about who is the worst than realize that BOTH democrat and republican policies make about as much sense as the idiots in my little story here (or less) ..... go ahead, convince yourselves you are ALL in the right ---- do this while the health of the nation gets worse by the second ... costs go up by the minute and the profiteers get richer by the hour

little t tom the independent MD

DJ JD-

I believe this SCHIP program will be funded by raising the tax on cigarettes. Do you smoke? If you don't then YOUR money is not being used here. If you do smoke then maybe you should stop, it is a nasty habit anyway...(ha!) If you do smoke then you are paying an extra 2 cents or something depending on the severity of your habit.

I don't know about you but I would be sick and tired of paying an extra 2 cents a month so that those damn kids can live.

The family is lower middle class, SHIP 's purpose is to keep the family in the middle class,to keep them in the middle class, not falling into poverty.

What could be wrong with that?

Lots of self employed people are unable to buy health insurance, a system where profit has priority it just too expensive.

DJ JD--
I was very affected by your post. Your integrity and self-reliance in the face of hardship are so admirable and inspire a lot of respect! But what I don't understand is why you would see getting covered by SCHIP as a handout. You work! You pay taxes! You contribute every day! What is the use of government if not to allocate the people's money--taxes--in the way which best benefits the people? It's not money given by anyone else--it's your own hard-earned money, which YOU paid. And okay, call me a humanist moonbat, but if taxes are supposed to be used for the most important things in the nation, aren't you and yours most important, simply by virtue of being valuable, irreplaceable people? I guess I just hate to see people feel it's a weakness to claim what they themselves have earned, paid--and earned back...
Anyway, I hope everything goes really well for you and your family.

Republicans show their true colors once again.

First: To all you who question this family's finances: NONE OF YOUR DAMN BUSINESS.

Second: Let's start shooting Republicans in the streets like the rabid mad dogs they are. We could start with Rush and Malkin and work our way over to Coulter. The world would be a better place.

"The GOP will stoop as low as possible.

Ruining an already stressed out family because they speak out for children's addt'l. healthcare.

And this is a free country?

Posted by: norrismorris | October 10, 2007 6:23 PM"

It's called 'Swiftboating'.

I spent a bit of time reading the posts to this editorial and am feeling we live in the sort of society we richly deserve. The amount of hate a bunch of Christians can stir up with short notice is only matched by what the Muslims and Jews can come up with. All of course ignoring the teachings of their Books.

I see the left has found some more "human shields" to prop up bad policy.

Let me guess. Their moral authority is absolute.

The 1930's depression was a time where 25% of the US workforce was unemployed. Someone's grandfather took two jobs, denying another family of the means of support.
Now his grandchild brags about that act. Maybe greed is genetic, but the progeny of greed sure don't do irony well.

“an end to the "death tax"
There is no “death tax” on estates under eight million dollars, yet you “family values” imbeciles have drunk the kook-aid propaganda of the very wealthy.

“Clearly 4 kids is too many to the Compassionate Conservative Family Values crowd.”
Yes, but they oppose abortion which can limit the number of children a lower middle class family can afford and many even oppose birth control.

We have had the American Taliban controlling the Republican Party since Reagan, and if the Republicans do not disassociate itself from these very un-Christian loonytune zealots it will die a well deserved death.

Decent health care insurance for a family of four (all healthy to start or no insurance company will write a policy) costs about eleven thousand dollars a year.
Insurance for catastrophic coverage will not cover normal medical needs, or prescription coverage. You need the catastrophic coverage in addition to a normal health care policy.

“Bruce- did you defend the General Betrayus ad as "free speech"?
The ad turned out to be pretty prophetic, didn’t it? All Petraeus did was recite the Bush propaganda agenda. He betrayed his troops and the American public.

Ex NYC Firefighter

A) Mathew Hay Brown,
Where is your link or source for this supposed "Redstate" contributor?

B) If "Redstate" is anything like the Swamp, why would you use an anonymous posting that could have been written by ANYONE claiming to be "conservative"?

Would you use a John E. posting to sum up how the left feels about a particular issue?

I doubt it.

This is just bad, lazy reporting on your part.

I googled the statement and found other "left leaning" bloggers quoting this supposed post by a right winger as well (with no link of course)

Could it be that you just "cut and pasted" what you saw on a left wing blog without traking down the original post and verifying it?

nahhhhhhh

The sky is the limit for Iraq - no amount of money is too much. But take a couple days worth of Iraq expenses and lavish it on children's health care? Pure treason. Why can't this family suck it up and suffer. After all, our goverment has more important clients - like fraudsters Halliburten & Blackwater to support. Can't be bothered with us mere citizen chumps.

Conservative compassion?

To John D: well, at least you didn't call them any names. But then you used everything you could to make the couple look bad, in your eyes. Did you miss the part where they had to refinance to make alterations to the place for their kids? You're one step away from criticizing the couple for having four kids. All I have to say is, whatever happened to the Golden Rule? Aren't conservatives supportive of religion? Do you think somebody at the hospital should have looked over the families entire financial history, and withhold treatment if a financial advisor questions the wisdom of their investments? I can only shake my head. By the way, if your children suffer such a catastrophic event, I wouldn't mind SCHIP picking up your expenses at all.

Matthew Hay Brown why didn't you post my post about 5 hours ago. I guess it's because I'm a Republican censorship is liberals game. Jerry White, Springfield, IL

"I spent a bit of time reading the posts to this editorial and am feeling we live in the sort of society we richly deserve. The amount of hate a bunch of Christians can stir up with short notice is only matched by what the Muslims and Jews can come up with. All of course ignoring the teachings of their Books."

Posted by: John Freeman | October 10, 2007 7:35 PM

JF,
That same book (Bible) also says that "if the devil is among you and you do NOTHING to cast him OUT , then you are him"

'Ya see, the first thing ya need is an enemy; Ya know, a Jew, a n!$$#r, a liberal, a Frenchman.
Then, ya drive a square rhetorical peg into a round logic hole with a sledge hammer and call it common sense!'

J White: You were posted before and now, which makes your complaint what?

The reason why we can't compete in manufacturing any longer is that we are the ONLY industrialized country that doesn't have national health care. My husband has been at the same job 15 years, and has wanted to change for the past 5. He is not free to quit a job he hates because many small business owners do not provide health care. I guess the right wing calls this freedom of choice. To pay for health insurance for our family of 4 on our own will cost us over $12,000 annually, 25 percent of my husbands take home pay for 80% coverage. Our mortgage, taxes and insurance take half of his take home pay. We own a 1991 minivan, don't eat out, camp on a friends land for our vacations, and buy most of our clothing at thrift stores. I work part time, and run our local Middle School PTA, spending nearly all of my waking hours on fund raising because after 6 years of budget cuts to our school, we have to fill the gap in the budget. I do this because EVERYONE ELSE THINKS SUPPORTING OUR KIDS IS SOMEONE ELSE'S PROBLEM!! Most families have both parents working to cover the overhead, and don't have time to volunteer. I guess the right wingers think it's better for a poor asthmatic kid to go to the emergency room, rather than get ongoing treatment as needed. Also, the so called "family values" crowd seem to be against abortion AND birth control, look at the pharmacists who refuse to fill prescriptions for birth control pills. It amazes me that people who claim to want the government out of their lives, want to tell a family not to have kids. In 2005, William W. McGuire, M.D., CEO of United health care, earned $124 million. His compensation in the five years 2001-2005 was $341 million. McGuire's exit compensation from UnitedHealth, was around $1.1 billion. 20 cents of every private health care dollar goes to administration and compensation packages like his. The thing I fear far more than Osama bin Laden, is what would happen if one of us were to get seriously injured or sick. An average family similar to many readers here stood up to show how this could happen to anyone, and get the lynch mob treatment. Don't shoot the messenger. Listen to the message, it could be YOUR FAMILY!!

Health Care:

Does anyone realize that each and every worker's paycheck has a deduction for healthcare taken out of it? It is Medicare BUT no one is allowed to use this health insurance until they are at least 65 years old AND then they must pay for it out of their Social Security check.

The hateful comments are from those who cannot see how it would be if their children were ill. Not very humane. Remember, we are human beings living on Planet Earth.

So much money for genocide, war and torture. Stop this madness.

Can ya HATE these NEOCONS ANYMORE??? The worst Americans...the RUSHs and Orielly....the biggest azzholes, liars and hypocrites......

"Too bad there are so many ugly Americans. I sometimes wonder why they are so angry...all of the time. Always lashing out at anyone they can vilify."

Joe,

It's called the bottomless pit of conservative right wing rage.

After reading the post on this site certainly shows what matters most is to see how nasty people can get and what greed does to people its truly a sad.

" can only shake my head. By the way, if your children suffer such a catastrophic event, I wouldn't mind SCHIP picking up your expenses at all.

Posted by: Jim H | October 10, 2007 8:17 PM"

And that's the whole idea behind national health insurance; Everyone picks up everyones medical expenses. It's the only way, in the future, that most Americans will get any care at all.

We can thank the Rush types for creating a culture of attack and blame. They highlight, exploit, and bring out the worst our country has to offer. What ugliness. And then there are all the psychopaths who happily respond to such hate speech -- what poisonous attitudes.

The Frost volunteered to step into the public light as mascots for the Democratic party - they should not be able to tell their side of the story unchallenged.

Liberal bloggers were compaining about swiftboating of teh Frosts - I guess swiftboating means shining the light on ALL the FACTS of a story and not just getting the spoon-fed version.

He is self-employed woodworker and she is a part-time at a medical publisher and they make about $50K. Can she can full-time? Assuming she only makes $10K, that means he makes $40K - maybe he needs to get a full-time job as a woodworking employee. Also, if he is self-employed, he has some flexibility in his job, maybe he can go get a job at Home Depot full-time and be a part-time woodworker.

How much money does he make from the warehouse per year? Looking at the accessed value of the warehouse - perhaps he should sell that - say at about $295K (looking at the ratio of the house's accessed value and the market value and applying that to the accessed value of the warhouse - net proceeds after a capital gains tax rate of 15% (good Bush idea) not counting remaining mortgage pymts) invest the proceeds at 5.7% will generate the approx $15,000/yr to pay for the health insurance.

Another simple solution - NEXT

This is disgusting. So many middle-class families, along with working-class or poorer families, are being hit hard financially by health care costs, many of which are not covered by private health insurance providers. And the Frosts are getting dumped on simply because the right-wing's favorate pantacea, the almighty "free market," doesn't solve every problem. The Frosts are being persecuted for being one among many families struggling with health care for their loved ones. How's THAT for family values?

What Americans refuse to acknowledge is that at any moment, a middle class family can lose everything even if they are medically insured. Fact: most bankruptcies and mortgage failures are due to unexpected medical costs. We aren't living in the wild west any longer. We are more civilized. Through the years, the US has brought innovation to its people in just about everything except health care. No one knows when something like this is going to happen to them and only then, will they know how tragic it really is. How many stories have you heard where the health insurance company declines paying for the most tragic medical cases and they get away with it? It is going on all over the country. People with 8 hundred thousand dollar medical bills finding that their insurance company has declined the claims.
No one is exempt from it... take some time and think about it.

mymymy...

brian, your aggressive ignorance amuses me, rock on ij-it!

if nothing, you ARE entertaining... HEY! perhaps the EIB network has a time slot open for ANOTHER delusional right-wing looney water-carrier?!

what a tool!

The symptoms of Asperger's and Autism include being social clumsy and having little or no empathy. Maybe conservatives are victims of one of these disorders and deserve our sympathy, and maybe some treatment so that a peaceful and thoughtful society can prevail.

I'm working with Families USA and we're working hard to make sure this bill gets the override it deserves.

Watch our 30 sec ad and sign the petition. Thank you.
http://www.familiesusa.org/bushvskids/

I never thought I would ever see a day when health care in the US was considered a luxury strictly for the wealthy. Also, consider that every congress person and president will have this luxury for the rest of their lives and at taxpayer expense. Technically, it is socialized health care which is denied to US citizens. Good ole Dick Cheney has already racked up over a million bucks on US taxpayer health insurance.

Think of it this way Swiftboaters... many Americans cannot afford a college education neither, but lack of that education does not endanger their lives or well being. Catastrophic medical problems places all of us in high risk categories whether we are insured, underinsured, or uninsured.

Now we have fundraisers to help folks out when insurance companies deny claims. Ever notice there is no lack of fundraisers in the last 8 years? Although fundraisers financially help a medically devastated family, the proceeds are a drop in the bucket toward staggering medical bills denied by health care insurance. Is this what America has become ... a scanty health care system by fundraiser?

With the phony Christian nationalists running the GOP, they will attack anybody who is not in the richest 5%.

I am amused that someone makes the accusation that rush limbaugh is the inventor of negative politics ......... it is kind of funny .... i am NOT defending limbaugh but if you are over 30 and you seriously believe that he started negative politics, then you need a head CT. I am much less amused that someone is blaming the worst of these attacks on "christians" in general -- that is bigotry - capitol B - BIGOTRY - pure and simple - As one who has studied Christianity most of my life and tries hard to live by those standards and teach them to my children, I do not apologize for my beliefs but I do apologize for the times I failed to live up to those standards - let me please try to be informative to the bigots among you - those who questioned the democrats for exploiting this child for political gain may or may not have a good point - those who think the family's financial information are now fair game for journalistic research since the family made their situation a matter for public scrutiny may or may not have a good point -- but those who initiated the worst of these attacks on this family and subjected the family to ridicule, derision, and possible physical harm may be expressing their first amendment rights -- but they are doing so with extremely poor judgement and taste (and possible legal liability as well) and they are most certainly NOT acting in accord with any truly "Christian" principles.

little t - tom the independent MD

ps - canadian women are coming to US to give birth because nationalized care doesn't really work after all - it MIGHT work in germany or costa rica in 1998 but it will be an unmitigated disaster in US in 2008 - please, trust me on that

Terry,

Please read comment by Jim H. and quit patting yourself on the back.

Disgusting!!

Rachael Maddow from Air America Radio on MSNBC News last night: “Twelve year old Graeme Frost, meet Cindy Sheehan, meet 9/11 widows, meet Staff Sgt. Brian McGough, meet Michael J. Fox, meet the kids who were targeted by Mark Foley, meet Jack Murtha. I mean, Graeme Frost as a twelve year old now joins an esteemed list of Americans who have been personally attacked, personally slimed, called liars and cowards and frauds, and threatened for daring to publicly espouse a view that the right disagrees with. I mean, just when you think you’ve found the person who they can’t possibly slime, I don’t know, say a twelve year old kid just out of a coma, turns out yeah, the bar does actually go that low, it’s just astonishing.”

"Graeme Frost as a twelve year old now joins an esteemed list of Americans who have been personally attacked, personally slimed, called liars and cowards and frauds, and threatened for daring to publicly espouse a view that the right disagrees with"

You mean they've joined the list of "human shields" that the left likes to prop up in order to sheild criticism for bad policy.

Why can't you just debate issues on their own merits? Why do you have to prop up people in front of you, so you can create false emotional appeals and chastise anyone who dares ask questions?

Is it because you have no confindence in your argument?

Look at the posts here and the reponses from the left. They aren't defending S chip and why it should apply to this family. They are screaming "how dare they criticize them??"

Nice debate style guys. I feel bad for this family having to act as your human shield.

You've been exposed, you'll always be exposed as frauds. (see Dan Rather)

The internet can be a kick in the arse can't it?

Ha Ha

The MSM media monopoly is gone!

the Democrats will never stop pulling out sentimental stories to support their government-growing initiatives or prop up their pet projects - no one really wants government to take over every aspect of our lives - so instead of engaging in a direct debate on the merits of an issue with the pros and cons debated openly, they prey on the hardworking and self-sacrificing average American's sense of common decency - the problem is they do not then show all of the decent families that are harmed by the inevitable long-term effects of throwing money at every problem NOR do they show all of the hard working families that are harmed by the inevitable effect of ignoring the real problems - the democrats are intellectually dishonest - the problem remains however, that current republicans in power also throw money at problems without restraint and also offer no solutions to the problem at hand which in this case is the rising cost of health insurance (which is rising due to the unrestrained greed of those insurance companies and the ridiculous poor health habits of the average American -- some of whom seem content to sit at home and watch the manipulated overly sentimental news in front of a TV all day instead of getting out and exercising) - McCain offers a decent idea with tax vouchers that can be used to buy insurance - that might help in the short term but it doesn't at all address the still rising cost of insurance.

little t - tom - the independent MD

What seems to be escaping many people's thoughts is the cause behind the current health care "crisis." Insurance companies are accused of operating for the sole purpose of achieving obscene profits. First off, one of the largest insurers in the country, Blue Cross, is a non-profit corporation. (My only affiliation with Blue Cross is I purchase my insurance from them.) As a non-profit, their profit levels are subject to government oversight. Health care was affordable for most people even into the 80s. But, starting in the 60s, there was a growing trend of employer-provided insurance. Because the employees don't pay for the insurance out of their checks (more about this later) they look at their health care as free (or low-cost). If you have an opportunity to buy a house, and someone else is paying 80% of the cost, what kind of house are you going to buy? Is it one you could afford if you had to pay the whole cost, or one you can afford by only paying 20%? With health care costs being subsidized, people are less concerned with the true cost. Lower out-of-pocket cost means higher demand. Higher demand in turn leads to higher prices, most of which is paid by the insurer. Those who don't have insurance have to pay more in turn.
For those of you with employer-provided insurance should consider what your salary would be if you didn't have insurance. Your employer looks at the total cost of employment. He might have a cap of $75,000 to spend on employee wages, benefits, and the employer share of taxes. If he has to spend $5,000 on the employer's tax obligation, and $15,000 on benefits - including insurance - that leaves only $55,000 he can spend on your salary. If you had a high-deductible insurance program limiting your exposure at $3,000, but cut your insurance by $5,000, wouldn't that be a good deal for you?
I don't know where all of you think the government is going to get the money to pay for the SCHIP program, which is estimated to cost $5,000,000,000 per year. The only place government gets money is from taxes. Who pays the taxes? We do. The program isn't going to get smaller - it will only grow. As the program grows, so do taxes. As the number of enrollees grow, so does the demand for healthcare, and if the enrollees are getting "free" healthcare, what incentive will they have to keep the costs down? Nothing.

Michelle Malkin is a friggin psychopath who is against just about all forms of immigration, (now that her parents have brought her here from the Phillipines or wherever), and seemingly has no idea that she is asian and her parents were immigrants. Thank god for her that some other asshole Michelle Malkin wasn't around to harass her parents for daring to come to HER country. Rush Limbaugh is a lying drug addict and sexual deviant, (qualities possessed by these idiots that seem to be the main staples of the psychological make-up of today's right-wing idealogue), and is barely even worth mention for all of the heinous and idiotic things that he has said and done. Yet somehow these vermin think themselves better Americans than the rest of us. They think it is up to THEM to tell us what to be concerned about and what is right and wrong. It is like getting a psych-eval from Charles Manson, and believing in what he has to say. Then there is O'Rielly, (but I don't even need to go there). I think it is funny that these rich jerk-offs think they know how to define what poor is, or who qualifies. It is like the French revolution only in reverse. The perverse haves are pointing their guns at the have nots and screaming foul. Well, in the 42 years I have occupied my tiny space on this God-forsaken planet, I would never have thought that I would see absurdity on the scale in which it exists and is so widely accepted by the people around me, (Americans). I found a quote from Napoleon that goes something like "Religion is the only reason that the poor do not kill the rich". This is not an absurd statement by any means. It seems that the absurd attitude/reality shift that is in today's "Amerika" would cause a revised requoting and I believe it would go something like this: "Fast Food and Farm related job positions, (and the fact that good robots have not been invented yet to do these jobs), are the only reason the rich do not just finish killing off
the poor right now so try not to get in our way you smelly poor fucks or we will kill you. That quote fits today's America much more precisely. Similar to what happened in Germany when the Nazi's started taking over, today's American is just to busy hanging on to what they have got, to worry about what is happening in this country. Nothing bad will come of these mean men in the brown shirts, and I mean what is the big deal, I'M NOT A JEW. I wish I were wrong, but I am a part of the problem. I have to admit that I have a definite urge to kill whenever I see that evil Cunt Malkin's face or hear that overly fed gas-bag Limbaugh lying about something else that he is most-assuredly being paid to lie about. By the by, did you know that Michael Medved now says that slavery wasn't such a bad thing for this country after all. URGE TO KILL RISING, oh yes, MOST ASSUREDLY RISING.......

"You mean they've joined the list of "human shields" that the left likes to prop up in order to shield criticism for bad policy."

How is a boy WHO HAS BENEFITTED from this program a shield?

"Why can't you just debate issues on their own merits? Why do you have to prop up people in front of you, so you can create false emotional appeals and chastise anyone who dares ask questions?"

Umm...hey...genius...why don't you read the title of this post again and then recognize you are the one off topic.

DJ JD

The answer to whom will be funding the program has already been provided. Are you reading the posts or just more concerned with your own argument?

NIce clan1465

I wonder why Mathew Hay Brown doesn't use your post in his article.

"You mean they've joined the list of "human shields" that the left likes to prop up in order to sheild criticism for bad policy."

Hey JD,

Who was the REPUBLICAN politician that surrounded himself with kids so that he could avoid being asked about some sexual scandal? It was like he used them as a human shield to avoid any tough questions.

Hmmmmmmmmm...

Isn't it ironic that Republicans are angry over this supposed belief that the family received fraudulent benefits, or that this program program is wasteful spending of THEIR hard earend money...

So, where is the rage at 12 Billion in cash lost in iraq?

Just asking.

dear anonymous (first time I ever wrote that) - there are some of us who do not like EITHER party wasting the tax money paid by the middle class (which is why there is such a shrinking middle class - a phenomenon which democrats whine about but then make worse) - anyway we are here - we are writing and WE ARE speaking out - noone is listening to us because too many love their party more than their country

little t - tom the independent MD

lastly - the profit motive still exist even for "non-profit" organizations such as blue cross/blue shield or traditional insurance companies to raise copays/premiums and deductibles at a rate out of proportion to the increasing cost of medical care itself - check and see how much the regional CEOs make without regard as to whether or not they work for "non-profit" companies - as for why do the costs of medical care go up ? it is multifactoral -- defensive medicine - poor emphasis on prevention -- poor self-care -- overutilization -- the costs of caring for the uninsured and illegal immigrants -- some degree of price gouging and fraud AND the higher costs of better medical technology are all factors - even still the premiums are going up at a rate even faster - why ??? because they can get away with it - they care more about stock holders than patients and they contribute heavily to democrats and republicans to help them get away with their unfair trade practices

go ahead democrats - attack the republicans and vice versa - you are all sellouts (and no, federalizing/socializing/expanding/nationalizing .... whatever you want to call it .... it will not make the problem better --- only worse)

little t -tom the independent MD

For God's sake.

The kid benefitted from a system that his parents were qualified to use. He said so. This makes him a target of the Right, as they want to keep the expansion of S-CHIP from happening. Leave them alone. As far as the law, and the government programs, etc., are concerned they did nothing wrong. What Pres. Bush is proposing is cutting funds from S-CHIP that would drive people off the rolls who currently need it. What the Dems are proposing is allowing for inflation, and the expansion of S-CHIP, based on the unconscionable costs of health care in this country.

In case tim the independent MD doesn't know, so-called socialized medicine is happening in countries other than Canada, and is a success. France has the best health care in the world by the standards of the World Health Organization: patient satisfaction, infant mortality, longevity, general health, etc. And they pay taxes for their health care, certainly; it's still approximately 30% less per capita than Americans pay for their health care.

Since we already have Medicare (which is more efficient that insurance companies have been), why not just expand Medicare to cover everyone? If we raise taxes to do it, but then employers no longer deduct the cost of insurance from our paychecks, it will probably balance out. It might even balance out in our favor.

This is an oversimplification of what is likely to happen, but we need to look at other countries' systems, take what they've done right, and correct what they may have done wrong.

Of all the bankruptcies declared in this country, fifty percent are due to catastrophic medical expenses. What if that didn't happen? Wouldn't the economy improve if all of that money was kept in the system? If people could continue to pay their bills, their mortgages?

The difficult question: does an investment banker deserve health care more than the guy who guards the bank?

The family qualified for aid under the laws of their state.

If your child requires care and you need help, and you LEGALLY qualify for assistance, you can receive that assistance. It's really that simple.

For Conservative leadership in Congress and right-wing pundits to attack the child and sanction attacks and harassment of the family for entirely legal behavior is criminal. This is exactly the effect the Malkin's, Limbaugh's and Hannity's of our country have wrought. And in truth this is merely another clear cut instance of crimes against a child by Fake Republican leadership.

What was the cost of the hospital bill for this boy and his sister?

With all of this not one news outlet, that I am aware of, has stated the medical expenses to heal and rehabilitate these children after the accident.

Is it because it would shut the argument down? Is it because it was so huge, they were there for several months and I understand the daughter has special ongoing needs, that it would be impossible for any family to pay the bill regardless of home ownership and business assets, unless we are talking millionaires?

Most Americans are glad that this family was not sent into poverty and into the streets due to the horrible accident they endured. Most Americans would rather see the money spent on situations like this, covering fellow Americans from tragedy, than killing and destroying families in the middle east.

Of course there are the right wing nuts that say "not on our dime" but they love spending the money on kiling and destroying families in the middle east so we just have to decide what kind of Americans we are.

We can best do that if the media would present the whole story with all of the facts.

Just keep this in mind everybody;ALL THE MEMBERS OF CONGRESS HAVE GOVERNMENT(SINGLE PAYER)HEALTHCARE.

The neo-con mantra of individual accountablity and pulling one's self up by the boot straps and making sacrifices and good choices seems to end at our borders and only applies to Americans.

How is it that as a country we ought not provide basic health care for our own citizens but we should provide the infrastucture, security, national defense, regulation of commerce, billions of dollars in 'foreign aid' for citizens of other countries?

Graema Frost, latest mascot of the left, meet Paula Jones, Juanita Broderick, Susan Broderick, Billy Dale, Gennifer Flowers, ...

Debbie,

Didn't know that facts disgust you. Read John E's posting, he has no facts in his posts.

Anon,

Health insurance is part of their compenstaion package, whether you think they deserve or not is another question.

wow .........wow ................wow...............wow...................................wow.........wow ..................WOW.........I apologize - I said I had made my last word on the subject but I have been impressed by some of the latter comments here (and unfortunately, .... not in a good way) - I can only hope that Sten and Anonymous are both very young and therefore their idealism and inexperience explains their over the top comments ........ Sten .... you have proved my point much better than I ever could have ...... I said before that a federalized system may have worked in germany or costa rica in 1998 but it will NEVER work in the US in THIS CENTURY and I am right .... in the interest of time, I will not bore everyone with all of the details as to why but I will point to your comment alone .... here is your quote:
"In case tim the independent MD doesn't know, so-called socialized medicine is happening in countries other than Canada, and is a success. France has the best health care in the world by the standards of the World Health Organization: patient satisfaction, infant mortality, longevity, general health, etc. And they pay taxes for their health care, certainly; it's still approximately 30% less per capita than Americans pay for their health care.

Since we already have Medicare (which is more efficient that insurance companies have been), why not just expand Medicare to cover everyone? If we raise taxes to do it, but then employers no longer deduct the cost of insurance from our paychecks, it will probably balance out. It might even balance out in our favor."

first of all... I am tom ....not tim .....second, many people living in places other than Canada are not happy with their systems and there is serious doctor flight to the US (and there has also been serious criticism of how the WHO defines and measures their "standards") .... let me tell you I have worked in socialized systems before and it is NOT fun to tell a patient something like, "we think you have cancer , your CAT scan will be in 3 and 1/2 weeks and then we will know more" (some countries have longer waits than that) ..... also in most european countries there are well documented better health habits and genetic factors which seem to help prevent heart disease for various reasons ...... but by far the biggest issue I have with your comments is your take on medicare .....nobody and I mean nobody that has worked in medicine for any length of time thinks medicare handles medical care better (more "efficient"ly) than private insurors ....... nobody ..... but even if we did, that system is going bankrupt ..... fast ............ as for Anononononononymous; your comment on congress having single payer coverage is the funniest thing I have read all day ..... Do you have any idea how expensive that system is ???? .... Are you honestly arguing that everyone be entitled to that system ???????? another entitlement ....NO PROBLEM just raise taxes ..... ask STEN or anonymous or Hillary any democrat ...... no hay problema ... ! mas taxes !

God bless you all - God bless your idealism - MOST OF ALL ...... God bless your families !!!!!!!!!! STAY HEALTHY TO THE BEST OF YOUR ABILITY AND STAY AWAY FROM ALL HOSPITALS AS MUCH AS YOU CAN - NO MATTER YOUR COUNTRY OF ORIGIN ... let me be the first to wish you all ; TGIF

little t - tom the independent MD

I love how the "family values" crowd expect both parents to work 2-3 jobs to make ends meet. When Bush was addressed by a woman who said she worked three jobs he said "Isn't that typically American! Do you get any sleep?" Republican family values...

Terry,

What I find disgusting is your flippant attitude of what this family "should" be doing. "Another simple solution-Next" is what you said. This family's situation has been anything but simple.

You don't have any facts. Have you sat down with this family and reviewed all of their finances? Your post is based on pure speculation.

Tom the independent,

I can tell you are a passionate person. You have made many excellent points that I will research further. Thanks for taking the time to give us your thoughts.

"I love how the "family values" crowd expect both parents to work 2-3 jobs to make ends meet"

No, just take responsiblities for poor decisions...and tap into some of that equity in your home and your parents before running to the govt. to help you.

Aren't these the same type of "shell" games with income that the left always complains about?

"No, just take responsiblities for poor decisions...and tap into some of that equity in your home and your parents before running to the govt. to help you."

We ARE the government JD and I don't mind helping this family.

Per anonymous;

"We ARE the government...."

I could not agree more - well put !!! Please just remember that there is a U.S. government of the people and then there is a bureacracy of the U.S. government which is hired by us as a collection of free and self-governing people who pay the bureacracy to do what WE tell IT (THEM) to do -- NOT the other way around.

The truth is that we are going to pay for health care for uninsured families by the billions of dollars one way or another - whether or not SCHIP is expanded. My problem with expanding SCHIP (or extending the expansion, as the case may be)is that; At best, it is a short-term patch and at worst it is yet another underfunded juggernaut that will have the long-term effect of accelerating our headlong slide into this flushing whirlpool where the end result is that the bureaucracy of OUR government is given so much power that the bureacracy tells us (the people) what to do rather than the other way around and then becomes (not unlike the insurance industry) unaccountable to the people for it's actions !

My problem with the Republican approach is that they hypocritically say expanding SCHIP is too expensive of an entitlement (which it probably is, but they are still hypocrites to say that - given their current spending habits) and simultaneously they offer NO long-term solutions at all. That is just plain wrong.

little t - tom - the independent MD -- HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND

Per anonymous;

"We ARE the government...."

I could not agree more - well put !!! Please just remember that there is a U.S. government of the people and then there is a bureacracy of the U.S. government which is hired by us as a collection of free and self-governing people who pay the bureacracy to do what WE tell IT (THEM) to do -- NOT the other way around.

The truth is that we are going to pay for health care for uninsured families by the billions of dollars one way or another - whether or not SCHIP is expanded. My problem with expanding SCHIP (or extending the expansion, as the case may be)is that; At best, it is a short-term patch and at worst it is yet another underfunded juggernaut that will have the long-term effect of accelerating our headlong slide into this flushing whirlpool where the end result is that the bureaucracy of OUR government is given so much power that the bureacracy tells us (the people) what to do rather than the other way around and then becomes (not unlike the insurance industry) unaccountable to the people for it's actions !

My problem with the Republican approach is that they hypocritically say expanding SCHIP is too expensive of an entitlement (which it probably is, but they are still hypocrites to say that - given their current spending habits) and simultaneously they offer NO long-term solutions at all. That is just plain wrong.

little t - tom - the independent MD -- HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND

Tom the Independent,

You are absolutely correct. I'm glad you did not give up on us here. You sifted through the partisan comments recognizing relevancy and then gave the best, most accurate opinion of us all.

Deb,

Just using the facts as presented above:

The Frost's have a liquidity problem, not a wealth problem. Theyare heavy in appreciated but non-liquid assets. In order to pay for the insurance, they should liquidate one of their appreciated assets - either house (by downsizing) or the warehouse. What is wrong with them picking-up more work?

david,

The "family values crowd". Remember that 1/3 of the American families' earnings go to pay taxes. If anyone is "unAmerican Family values" its the heap of financial burden that gov't places upon us.

"We ARE the government JD and I don't mind helping this family."

This explains a lot.

WOW

JD,

Tom the independent understood what I was talking about. Read his last post; he is far more intelligent and has a much better grasp on the subject than you (and me as well).

Just so all these macho, pull yourself up by your own bootstrap people will understand something. These people probably cannot get health insurance for these two kids because of their medical conditions.
My daughter was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes when she was in college. She remained under my health care plan until graduation. At that time she was no longer eligible. There wasn't an insurance company in the state that would write a health care policy for her--believe me we tried! Even if we had been millionaires she was not eligible for coverage because she had a chronic health condition.
Get a clue you fools not everything works as you've been brainwashed to believe. It's amazing how all of you spout the same tired phrases. Every medical case has it's own caveats and from the posts it's apparent you have no idea what you are talking about--dittoheads!
I feel for the Frost family and many of the comments posted reinforce how hypocritical and hateful the right wing people are everywhere. A pox on your houses!

Terry,

Yes, I understand what you are saying but I still disagree. Without knowing their full financial standing there is no way to know what they could qualify for as far as refinancing their home etc.. so don't pretend to have all the answers.

I also understand that the daughter suffered more severe injuries in the accident and requires "special needs" care 24/7. I am ASSUMING this is why Mrs. Frost only works part-time.

Guys,

It's obvious that the Frost's are NOT being upfront with their assests. It is VERT likely that they have hundreds of thousands of dollars in equity alone. Never mind that ALL 4 kids have gone to private schools and they have 3 cars including a brand new Volvo SUV.

HHEEELLOOOO!!! Alarm bells anyone?

Aren't these the type of people the left always wants to "get" for taking advantage of tax loopholes. Wouldn't this be similar to "corporate welfare" yet on a more personal level?

I can't believe this family is YOUR poster child. Didn't anyone do any research on them?

This is both funny and sad at the same time.

Like I said, the left's attitude on this explains a lot of your thought process.

...and its scarier than I thought.

Harriett, I must be one of those "macho, pull-yourself -up-by-your own bootstraps" people you are talking about. I posted above the experience I have had taking care of my wife who has been unable to work for 2 1/2 years due to an injury. I don't have any regrets that I have been able to pull myself and my family up. When we experience setbacks, we make sacrifices rather than look to the government for help.
To Sally: thanks for your thoughtful comments. Perhaps we could receive government health care, which would return some of the taxes I've paid in the 30+ years I've been working. But, if all Americans decided they were entitled to benefits, where does it end? Who will pay the taxes to support those benefits.
To Anonymous, who questions whether I've read the posts, did you even read my post before posting your criticism? The government only gets money from one place (other than by printing it) and that's from the taxpayer.
To the other Anonymous who challenged me: No, I don't smoke. But, raising the tax on a pack of cigarettes is going to have a disproportionately large impact on the very income class of people who are supposed to benefit from SCHIP. About 1/2 of smokers have an income less than 200% of the poverty rate, so 1/2 of the taxes will come from that class. Here's where the economics rules come into play. As the taxes increase, the demand decreases. To continue raising the increased revenues needed, more people are going to have to begin smoking. Estimates are that, within 5 years, the U.S. will need an additional 9,000,000 smokers! That's unlikely to happen, which means the tax burden will have to shift to somewhere else. What group or product will be the next target.
What is totally ignored is that there is no legal authority for the federal government to be getting into the business of health care. Federal powers are constitutionally limited - those powers not granted to the feds are reserved to the states.
For me, I would much rather have choices in how much I pay for insurance, whether to go with a high or low deductible, and be able to get health care when I want it. I ended up in emergency a few weeks ago and they needed to do a CAT scan. Had I been in Canada or any other country with socialized medicine, I would have been sent home and told to come back in several weeks or months. Freedom is a beautiful thing.

I really like the way liberals try to "swift boat" conservatives by accusing them of "swift boating" liberals supporters.

Michelle Malkin and Rush Limbaugh never said anything bad or mean about the boy. And, they only pointed out that this family was already receiving benefits under SCHIP and as such was a poor choice by dim bulbed Democrats to try and sell their expansion, doubling, of the SCHIP program. The example they gave, the Frosts, is more suited to maintaining the current level of spending on the program.

FYI: The entire SCHIP program is a waste of taxpayers' dollars. If the US Congress wants the working poor and middle class to have health care insurance, they would offer income tax deductions for the cost of private insurance policies.

The attempted expansion of SCHIP is just another attempt to make big government bigger and make more people dependent on government. They won't be happy until they grab all of your earnings and dole it out to those who they believe deserve it, namely, people who support them.