"I will not let the Democrats roll back the Bush tax cuts,''

Guess what Grampa, we can't afford to give tax breaks to the richest 1%, plus fund a ridiculous occupation, plus pay interest on the debt unless you plan on charging it to future generations.

Vote Repug: the borrow and spend party.

Jeez, what an idiot.

Michigan's long-term governor: a Democrat.

Michigan's taxes: high and getting higher.

Michigan's economy: in the tank.

Michigan's economy: in the tank.

Posted by: Bruce | October 9, 2007 10:40 AM

What happened to truth in reporting Bruce? Michigans problems were not from taxes...please

"But it is government's job to help workers get the education and training they need for the new jobs that will be created by new businesses in this new century."
-
Karl Marx couldn't have said it any better. Welcome to the evil world of socialism, John.

Bruce...
• Michigan taxes have been cut for 30 years and cannot be reduced any more without recouping the revenues elsewhere;

• Once considered a high-tax state—ranking 13th on the list in 1972—Michigan was 29th out of 50 states in 2002 in terms of how much it taxed residents. Michigan State University Economics professor Charles Ballard said if census data were available today the state likely would be shown to have further reduced the percentage of income residents are paying in state and local taxes;

• In 1979 wages of low-skilled workers were considered high compared with the national average. Today they rank with the rest of the nation;

• As tax levels have changed during the years in Michigan and on the federal level, more burden has been shifted to those who least can afford to pay;

• The cost of health care and the corrections system continue to escalate. At present 1/3 of state expenditures go to health care, including Medicaid, health insurance for school and state active and retired employees, and health services for a growing prison population, said Tom Clay, director of state affairs, Citizens Research Council of Michigan. The state's corrections budget overall is more expensive than other states, he said, with nearly 1/3 of state workers employed in the system, and incarceration rates more than 40 percent higher than nearby states;

• Michigan is above the national average in the number of high school graduates whose overall standardized test scores are better than the rest of the country, but the state lags behind in share of students that go on to college, said Ford School Dean Rebecca Blank. Furthermore, more young adult college-educated workers leave the state each year than enter it, she said.

bill r...Facts have a liberal bias.

I agree with McCain on everything but the Bush tax cuts. The trickle down hasn't happened, they're still moving all the jobs to India and leaving American workers high and dry. If he could focus more on issues like this and quit coddling the evangelicals, he might have a chance.

Michigan taxes high? Here's some proof:

"the Tax Foundation in Washington, D.C., which tracks such data, takes a different view of Michigan's ranking. The combination of the sales and income tax hike puts Michigan's tax burden at 11th-highest in the nation, up from No. 14, the institute says."

See the Detroit News article at http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071002/METRO/710020402/1409/METRO
for more.

Meanwhile, "The state of Michigan, in a bid to become the most confusing state to operate a business in, has passed a sales tax on a bizarrely random selection of services. These services include such illustrious professions as astrology services, social escort services, and graphic design services....

Michigan has the worst unemployment rate in the nation and is the worst state for creating new businesses."

See the full article at http://www.procata.com/blog/archives/2007/10/

Thank you, Gov. Granholm, for providing a glimpse of liberalism in action.

Anyone remember when "Maverick" John McCain was AGAINST Bush's tax cuts before he was FOR them? Another Pander Bear who will say anything to get elected. Was this a FLIP or a FLOP?

Bruce,
You failed to note that the reason the jobless rate is the highest (in July) was due to the fact that manufactures retool their plants in July for new product lines. Employees are routinely laid off which is seasonal and expected. And you call yourself a reporter. SHAME! SHAME on you!

I'll explain to the Brain Dead Left again, the Bush tax cuts.
EVERYONE received a tax cut under Bush, with the POOREST people getting the BIGGEST cut.
ALL tax brackets under Bush were lowered, with the poorest falling to 10 percent. When you put in the deductions those poor folks can use on their 1040 forms, in the end under Bush the poorest folks NO LONGER pay a federal income tax.
In addition, the first year everyone received a minimum $300 cash back. The second year, some folks got an advance on their tax refund. IN addition, under Bush, the child tax credit DOUBLED, from $500 to $1,000 per child. Under Bush, the marriage penalty tax was removed.
So, let's see. EVERYONE received a tax cut as the percentage of taxes taken out of paychecks went down. The poorest no longer pay a federal income tax when all is said and done. The child tax credit doubled and the marriage penalty tax went away.
So, how does it come that the blithering idiots on the Left only see tax cuts for the rich?

Michigan does have some of the highest taxes in the nation. Also, auto manufacturers keep building car manufacturing plants in states OTHER than Michigan. Auto jobs are being formed in states like Tennessee, Kentucky.
Illinois also has some of the highest taxes in the nation, with Crooked County board and its Crooked Board President Wannabe, Baby Stroger, wanting the sales tax (A REGRESSIVE tax on the poor) moving from .75 cents on the dollar to 2.75 cents on the dollar. That will only hurt the poor and hurt the businesses in Crooked County.

If higher taxes will get you to leave Cook County John D. then I'm all for it. It's only a matter of time before you act out your murder fantasies and threats to Democrats.

PS Also Johny D. since you claim to have a journalism background. Please tell us what percentage of the Bush tax cuts went to the top 2% of income earners and also tell us how removing the Estate Tax and taxes on capital gains stimulates the economy. I love when you tell Swampsters how the world works in your deranged mind.

Ah the will of the sheeple to decieve. The Tax Foundation does NOT publish any annual study of family tax burdens. The annual study in question is its "Tax Freedom Day" study that is release each April. Keep trying.
John D keep pushing those incomplete facts on the Bush tax cuts. Lets move from thoses huge $300 amounts for the p-ons and look at the last few years of the cuts where the richest 1% get incredible amounts of relief.

JohnD-

Do you think the need for higher taxes in Cook County might have anything to do with the fact that the current anawer this administration, and it's supporters like you, give to the poor who do not have health insurabce is "go to the emergency room"?

How do you think all those vists to Stroger hospitals emergency room by folks who have no other option get paid for?

If you don't want the feds to pay for, state and local governemnts will have to.

Anonymous, poor folks going to Stroger Hospital is not why Crooked County is in deep trouble. Stroger's been closing the neighborhood clinics. Hmmmm, wouldn't they be better to keep them open so folks wouldn't have to go to the hospital? And didn't Baby Stroger say Petraica was going to close neighborhood clinics?

On the tax issue again, how is it that when the payroll taxes go down for workers, that is a tax cut for the rich? Or when the child tax credit is doubled?

As far as the estate taxes, and capital gains taxes. Well, Dumb Dumb Janet, selling one's home can be a capital gains. Also, most Americans own stocks today. That is a capital gain. Furthermore, if some rich person dies leaving $50 million to the kids or the poodle, it's not my money. It's not your money. It's not Uncle Sam's or The Boy Governor's. It is the rich person's money and he/she should be able to do with it as he or she wishes. The government has no right to that money. I and, especially you Janet, dear, have no right to that money. If some rich person wants to give you their millions, Janet, dear, I am sure you want it and would not like Uncle Sam taking most of it from you.

Dumb Dumb Janet, I am in the mood to torture Far Lefties. Would you like to be first?

"Stroger's been closing the neighborhood clinics. Hmmmm, wouldn't they be better to keep them open so folks wouldn't have to go to the hospital?"

Guess where the money comes from for neighborhood clinics, John - County taxes!

It is the rich person's money and he/she should be able to do with it as he or she wishes.
Posted by: John D | October 9, 2007 2:23 PM

Well dumb dumb John D...He should be able to do what he wants...after taxes are paid on it. If the deceased made money on stocks..the tax on his gain was never paid. If his house that he lives in is now worth 200k more...tax was never paid on that gain. Selling your house would not be a capital gain unless you have not lived in it for 2 years. Can't see too much being made in 2 years on the value of that home. Once again, because you "can't see it from my house", most Americans don't own stocks, half do. I just don't want you to squeak your "almost" facts in on us.

John D., I couldn't have said it better myself! It's nice to know that there are people left in the world still have a mind of thier own. I for one, am tired of having my taxes raised, just to see the money spent on a politicians useless project. They already tax us on the money as we make it, tax us when we maintain and try to grow it, and tax our families on it when we die. I don't mind paying my share of taxes, but I do expect to see results for it.

Johnny:

Tell us how much Dick Cheney saved on his taxes this year, versus what the middle class wage earner did.

And remember, it was your boy Ronald Reagan who took away the tax deduction we of the middle class used to get for interest on credit cards.

And how much is the exemption on the estate tax? The first $2 million?? Wow - how can any family exist on that?? And remember all the family farms that went under because of the estate tax that the right wing talked about? It has been shown that NOT ONE farm had to be sold because of that - it was a conservative urban legend.

Hmmm Johnny D. what is a bigger threat to the future of the United States. An Estate Tax on the wealthiest 1% of American society who benefits from a strong national government that is politically stable and financially stable, or a permanent wealthy class. And I thought Republics valued hard work and creativity to produce wealth instead of the dumb luck of being born Paris Hilton.

Dick Cheney? why would you mention him? how about clintons kerrys kennedys edwards gores? just to name a few. If there were no "rich" in the country to carry the weight of all the non-producing citizens and ILLEGALS, you'd all be screwed. Cheney paid $MILLIONS in taxes last year, how much did you? The numbers don't lie, 84% of ALL tax revenue comes from your hated "rich" It's not your place to tell them how much money they should have.

By the way, Dick Cheney has paid 10 times more in taxes in 1 year, than you've probably paid in your entire adult life.

And I am sure that he has also gotten back more than 10 times I have ever gotten in refunds. I believe he saved somewhere near $75,000 this year, thanks to the tax cuts.

Brian,
You must be a Republican. You have to cite your "facts" if you want any credibility. You can't just make claims without providing evidence.

"The numbers don't lie, 84% of ALL tax revenue comes from your hated "rich" It's not your place to tell them how much money they should have."

Wrong. (depending on how you define "rich" I guess)

The top 1% of all incomes accounted for 25.3% of all federal taxes in 2004 (the most recent year available)

The same top 1% accounted for 21.8% off all income.

Doesn't sound to me like the rich are getting soaked too badly.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/08/washington/08tax.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/29/business/29tax.html

Brian...Most people when they die do not leave cold cash as an inheritance. Any gain that would be made on real estate or stocks or any other investment has never been taxed. It is not a matter of a double tax.

Have you ever heard of the old saying: you get back what you put in? How much do you think is a fair amount for someone who is wealthy to pay in taxes? percentage wise? do you think that it would be fair to exclude them from refunds, at the same time, excluding yourself from tax hikes? do you think the wealthy should be wealthy al all? (i think i know the answer to that one). The last time I checked, this is a country that allows anyone the opportunity to advance achieve wealth. Would you have the same views if you were rich?

I love when Republics repeat the party line that the tax cuts were to help the middle class. When Dick Cheney was confronted by the US Treasurer who was concerned that the US economy would be damaged by tax cuts skewed so greatly towards the wealthiest an angry Vice President snapped back, "This is our due!" And obedient sheeple like Johnny D. who don't question authority keep repeating the Republic lie that their party fights for the working class.

Jethro, can you please provide one instance in which you backed up your statements with facts?

IN regard to Dick Cheney, in 2006 he gave ALL the money he made in his trust funds to charity, which I believe was in the $6 million range.

And Bobin, folks shouldn't be deducting their credit card interest from their taxes. That only encourages debt. Not a good thing. Also, Bobin, sorry, but farm families have had to sell in order to pay taxes. The Huzainga family sold the Dolphins for that very reason. And a friend of mine who's dad owns a family business will have to sell the business when he dies because they won't be able to afford the taxes.

Again, I don't care if Paris Hilton (still smarter than Dumb Dumb Janet -- she thinks Hillary "killed" Vernon Jordan for instance) is the recipient or not, or even the fanily dog (not much difference in that case), there is no right for the government to take a good chunk of that money. None.

Jethro, I am a rebublican. I don't HAVE to cite any facts, all I really need to cite common sense. Why should all the wealthy pay a larger percentage than anyone else?

So, Brian, are you calling our occupation in Iraq useless?

Also, Dick Cheney has shot more people in the face than 99.99% of most Americans.

Umm, Johnny D? I did not know that Wayne Huizenga was a farmer. Last I checked, he made his money in used cars. And gave a lot of money to Nova Southeastern University, which I have an MBA from the Huizenga School of Business.

I specifically said FARMERS. And if people have to sell businesses because of this, they obviously do not have good accountants or financial planners.

Bill R., you just stated that "most" Americans don't have stocks, half of them do. your right, unfortunately, the ones dying are old! they usually dont have stocks or hardly any investments. They lived through the depression. I know many older people that have vast amounts of money hidden away in plain old savings accounts. Jethro, the tax cuts were made to help EVERYONE! the less that company owners "rich" pay in taxws, the more they have proven to spend in hiring more employees and wage increases and health benefits. You people don't seem to understand how an economy works. It's all about ME ME ME with you all. Screw over the rich and we'll all be screwed. dumb*ss!

weinerdog43, Our occupation in not useless, I didnt say that it was. You cant make me upset about Cheney shooting people in the face, thats kinda besides the point, isnt it? good thing he wasn't hunting buffalo that day, hu.

I don't HAVE to cite any facts,

Posted by: Brian | October 9, 2007 4:14 PM

When you are making this claim you do, buddy. "84% of ALL tax revenue comes from your hated "rich" It's not your place to tell them how much money they should have".

We aren't your faith based pals. If you tell us the sky is blue we need to see it.

"Jethro, the tax cuts were made to help EVERYONE! the less that company owners "rich" pay in taxws, the more they have proven to spend in hiring more employees and wage increases and health benefits."

Then why have wages for everyone accept the top 10% of wage earners gone down and why are fewer companies offering health insurance as a benefit than before the tax cuts?

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/29/business/29tax.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/11/AR2007091100666.html?nav=rss_health

"the less that company owners "rich" pay in taxws, the more they have proven to spend in hiring more employees and wage increases and health benefits."

Posted by: Brian | October 9, 2007 4:34 PM

Really, then how come more times than not corporations use increased profits to buy back outstanding stock instead? Keep puking out your lies.

Brian...Why do you think the rich pay more than their share of taxes? I can tell you % wise, they don't. Any wealthy man has so many ways to shelter his money so that he is not paying his fair share. To cover his capital gains he need only do a 1031 to protect his gains. The dollar amount may look higher but his % is lower.
ps..I won't call you any childish names..OK?

because the companies are moving out of the country. the top 10% of wage earners have the growing responsibility to keep thier companies competative in a global economy. they have the pressure from the stockholders to make thier investment on a upward path. more responsibility equals more pay. why don't you stop being jealous of what they have, and try to achieve the same? i know, i know because pres. Bush wants to keep you all dumb and poor, so he can have more control of your lives. no wait, that's democrats jobs.

ny times and washington post? there not credible, there all lap dogs for you libs! the only thing you hear from them is how bad everything is and how many troops died today and how Bush and his buddys are destroying the world and how great the clintons are and how they care about the little man.

"because the companies are moving out of the country. the top 10% of wage earners have the growing responsibility to keep thier companies competative in a global economy."

So we shouldn't make them pay higher taxes so they can be more efficient in shipping jobs out of the country, so that wages here get driven down even further?

What a brilliant economic policy for the US.

By the way Brian...The depression was in 29, if they were 25 and lived through the depression that makes them 103 now. I doubt you still see people stuffing their money in their pillows anymore...
Dumba**..I changed my mind.

brian-

where's your sources, big boy?

Come on, let's see some statistics and proof for your claims.

sorry bill r. it was wrong of me to call names. why should these companies have to pay higher taxes? they are trying to keep thier business alive. unfortunately, the cost of an American worker is too high. most people don't care if its made in the USA, they only care how much it costs. when a foreign company can sell its product (and not have to pay a import tariff on it like we have to in thier country), for way less money, guess what they pick? I come from a domestic automaker family (all skilled trades) and why should the guy sweeping the floor get all theese great benefits and $30. bucks an hour? when there are people willing to do it for a quarter of that amount? that's not fair. ever wonder why a car costs so much money? "I put car parts together in an air conditioned building an live in a half million dollar house with 2 caddys in the driveway." ENTITLEMENT MENTALITY! has priced us right out of a job.

I have to go home now, but its been nice talking to you all. i will check back in the morning-thanks

I also take it back and appologize Brian. Sometimes we get caught up in all this poop!

Michigan's long-term governor: a Democrat.

Michigan's taxes: high and getting higher.

Michigan's economy: in the tank.

Posted by: Bruce | October 9, 2007 10:40 AM

Thanks propaganda minister Bruce. Were you at the Detroit Economic Club today??? Nope just spreading your vacant B.S. on your computer. Bruce-bot your a joke.

Michigan's ecomomy is in the tank because Republicans starting with Regan decided that Free Trade and Fair Trade were the same thing.

The rust belt exists because that's what the GOP and thier corporate handlers wanted.

Bill is just another misguided fool who thinks liffe n teh US will be just fine without the middle class. Take a look at the middle east and africa to see what the "third world model" will get you.

The rhetoric "tax cuts for the wealthy" when it comes to income taxes is nonsense. Bush hating sheep are trained to focus on actual dollars saved by tax payers as opposed to percentage cuts, which were not only across the board, but the rate cuts were also significantly higher for the lowest bracket (50%) than for the highest (around 12%). Looking at actual dollars saved is not a rational way to look at the issue due to income disparity. Consider the following hypo - My middle class income taxes could be reduced from their present rate all the way to zero, and I would still save less in actual dollars than if Bill Gates' tax rate were cut by a mere 0.1%. Only a fool would claim that Gates is getting the better deal in my hypothetical, as I couldn't ask for anything more than for my taxes to be zero. The reason even the most minute tax cut on Gates would fly by even a total cut on my rate has nothing to do with fairness in taxes; it has everything to do with the fact that Gates makes so much freaking money. That is why it is absurd to talk about this issue in terms of total dollars saved, which I believe must be the foundation for the "tax cuts for the wealthy" rhetoric.

As for capital gains taxes, their very nature irritates me, as I already paid income taxes on the money I purchased the asset with. Regardless of this, if there are going to be capital gains taxes, I think a distinction needs to be made between middle class part time investors and professionals who make a living dealing stocks, such as brokers and hedge fund managers. The former, like me, should pay a minimal percentage, if any at all. The latter should have their income taxed at their income bracket rate, not the lesser 15% capital gain rate. The loophole of a rich hedge fund manager paying only 15% on his millions because they are technically capital gains instead of income, while I pay 25-28% on my middle class income, is a joke.

"ever wonder why a car costs so much money?"

Because unlike the Europeans and Japanese we are competing against who have "socialized" (oooooh, scary) the cost of health insurance across society, American automakers have to foot the bill for each employee's health care. Nationalized health care would save these old businesses a fortune and make them more competitive in the marketplace.

American manufacturers have twice the health care costs factored into each car as Japanese manufacturers do. Trimming that gap is a good place to start in increasing American competitiveness.

Shorter Brian:

Wasting BILLIONS in Iraq...Good!

Health care for kids...Bad!