Barack Obama Q&A

By Mike Dorning

Barack Obama said in an interview Saturday with the Tribune that a ticket led by Sen. Hillary Clinton would be destined to largely repeat the disappointing Democratic performances of 2000 and 2004 and could hope only to "barely" eke out a victory.

Obama predicted that if the Democrats nominate Clinton, "you're going to basically see a repetition of the 2000 and 2004 elections, in the sense that the country's divided and both parties will be working at the margins to tip the election just barely in their favor."

In the interview, reported in a story in today's Tribune, Obama questioned the front-runner's ability to convert broad public discontent with the Bush administration into a decisive Democratic victory, suggesting the political baggage she carries from the partisan battles of the 1990s would be a burden on her general election campaign for president.

And the Illinois senator portrayed Clinton's campaign so far as one based on obfuscation and avoidance of clear stands.

The interview was conducted shortly before Obama delivered a speech in Spartanburg, S.C., describing the choice he sees before voters in the Democratic primaries. The full Q&A follows:

Q. In a nutshell, how do you frame the answer to the question of why you and not Hillary Clinton?

Obama: You know, as we talk about in the speech, George Bush isn't going to be on the ballot in (2008). And so the Democrats have to make a decision about not only what is our case against what the Republicans have done over the last seven years but where do we want to take the country in the future. And I think it is important for the Democratic nominee and a Democratic president to lay out an agenda that is clear to the American people, that is bold enough to meet the big challenges that we face, that acknowledges some of these choices are going to be difficult. And that is the kind of campaign I've been trying to run.

I think Sen. Clinton has taken a more traditional approach, which is to try to make herself as small a target as possible to potential Republican attack by avoiding laying out too specific an agenda. But I think you can't build a majority and bring about real, meaningful change if that's the approach you take.

Q. Now, since September, and really even before then, you've been trying to distinguish yourself from Sen. Clinton. And yet the polls indicate people are choosing Sen. Clinton over you.

Obama: The national polls you're talking about.

Q. Yeah, and to a lesser extent, by narrower margins, the state polls.

Obama: But, now I think it's important, though, Mike, you know, to, because we go over this again and again. Our focus is on those early states. In Iowa, we are in a dead heat. In New Hampshire and South Carolina, the gap has narrowed since that time. So I just want to make sure that I'm not entirely accepting the premise of the question.

Q. I guess the question is why is she leading you in some cases and why aren't you doing better in some cases? And what is it that you're not getting through that you think needs to get through?

Obama: I think we are getting through. It just doesn't happen immediately. She represents the dominant brand name in the Democratic party. And people are much more familiar with her. And know what they're getting. And with me, I think people's views are still evolving and developing. They're still learning about my track record and where I want to take the country. So that's why there is a difference between what's going on in the early states and the national polls. In the early states, where people are becoming more familiar with my track record, we keep on doing better.

Q. And what is it that you need to get through to them in the next two months to win it?

Obama: I think we need to keep on doing what we've been doing, which is to talk about not only my plans for health care, social security, energy, and Iraq, but to also point out that my style of leadership is going to involve being honest with the American people about the challenges that we face and inviting them to participate in our government, to open it up and make it more transparent and accountable to them.

Q. In what ways might it be possible that voters, particularly in the Democratic party, are in such a state that don't want as much healing and honesty but they want to win?

Obama: Oh, I think there's no doubt that they want to win. But one of the things I believe about my candidacy is that I have a better chance than any of the other candidates of bringing the country together and attracting independents and Republicans into a working majority for change. That is a harder argument for Sen. Clinton to make, I think, because people's views are set on her. And you're going to basically see a repetition of the 2000 and 2004 elections, in the sense that the country's divided and both parties will be working at the margins to tip the election just barely in their favor.

Q. Do you think that nominating her puts the Democratic party at risk for defeat?

Obama: I think I am a stronger candidate in an election. Otherwise, I wouldn't be running.

Q. OK. Aside from who voted how on authorizing the war, do you think there's any real difference going forward on how and how quickly each of you would get us out of Iraq?

Obama: I've certainly been clearer in terms of how I would approach it. I've offered a specific pace for withdrawal. She has not. As a consequence, I've given a clear timeline in terms of how that withdrawal would proceed, something she has failed to do. And she also envisions, it appears, a larger follow-on force, a larger mission for those troops that might remain. I've described that mission as very, very narrowly to protect our embassy and U.S. civilians as well as to carry out counter-terrorist activities. She has in past interviews described that mission more broadly to include, for example, blunting Iranian influence inside of Iraq.

Q. And you wouldn't have that…
Obama: (interrupting) Which is part of the reason, presumably, why she voted for Kyl-Lieberman. I would not have that as a mission.

Q. In your speech today, you say troops would be out in 16 months, I'm assuming you mean so-called combat troops.

Obama: Combat troops, right.

Q. Your own wife is an independent woman with her own career. How much do you accept Sen. Clinton's explanation that she doesn't have much-or apparent explanation-that she doesn't have much influence over her husbands decision to ask that many of the papers, White House papers related to her, not be released for several more years.

Obama: I don't accept it, and I don't think the American people accept it. I think they understand that if Sen. Clinton urges former President Clinton to release those papers, then they'll be released.

Q. So it's basically her that's holding him up from letting us see what she did in the White House?

Obama: Well, obviously I don't know the conversations between the two of them. What I know is she's running for president in part based on her record as First Lady and that these papers presumably shed light on that record. Obviously, if this had nothing to do with her claims of experience, then they wouldn't be relevant. But these are directly relevant and presumably this is something they have thought through. I think the American would be well-served to be able to judge those claims of experience.

Q. I haven't followed all her specific explanations on it, all the explanations as to why it's not her fault that the records aren't going to be released before people vote on her. But, in short, when you say you don't accept it, you don't buy all those explanations.

Obama: I think it's fair to say if she wanted these papers released, they'd get released.

Q. And one last follow up on that, can you imagine the conversation between her and Bill. Do you think she's really pushing him?

Obama: I won't speculate. My assumption is that if she wants them released, they could be released.

Q. Does immigration have the potential to be the gay marriage of this cycle? And how will you counter that?

Obama: Well, I think that's certainly the Republicans' intentions. And there are passions around the gay marriage issue are significant.

Q. (interrupting) I think I asked the question unclearly. Does the issue of immigration have the potential to...

Obama: (interrupting) I understand. That is certainly the intention of the Republicans, or at least some of the Republican candidates, is to drive this as a wedge issue in the upcoming election. And we saw that on display during last year's immigration, or this year's immigration debate. So there's no doubt that there are going to be attempts to exploit people's concerns about immigration.

Our response has to be to speak very clearly about the need to get serious about border security, the need to get serious about employer verifications of employees and their legal status, and to explain that we are not going to, that it is impractical for us to send 12 million people out of the country, and that given that fact we need to lift people out of the shadows. Now, there are going to be some that disagree with that. And I think it's important for us to not try to evade the issue but have a clear, honest conversation about it.

Q. And clearly it seems like Sen. Clinton is wary of this being a problem in the general election. Do you think that just by being clear about this you guys will be OK?

Obama: I think you can't avoid the issue. And my belief is that whenever you try-particularly in the modern political age where everything is Youtubed and videotaped, and the Internet can shoot anything around the globe in the span of two seconds-attempts to duck big issues like this are difficult, and ultimately wind up being counterproductive.

Press spokeswoman: We have time for one more question, Mike.

Q. Presumably, Judge Mukasey has been reluctant to call waterboarding torture even though he says it's repugnant because he does not want to limit the president's options in dealing with terrorists. Would you want your own nominee leave that option open for you.

Obama: I believe that the American government and the American people should reject torture in all its forms.

Q. And do you think Sen. Clinton has sent the signal that needs to be sent on that?

Obama: You know, I think there were she had been quoted several months ago saying it might be appropriate to have a narrow exception for prohibitions against torture. In the last debate-not this one in Philadelphia, but in New Hampshire-she appears to have reversed herself. I take her at her word that she now has a clearer position-although I think again it's important for us to be unequivocal when it comes to (long pause)

Q. OK. So do you think she sends the right signal?

Obama: I've answered the question.