Immigration a sticky issue for Clinton, Democrats

Stick around. Hillary will come up with yet another thought about what she REALLY means about immigration and driver's licenses. She will not, however, reveal her true reasons for supporting them, that in many states, the driver's license is accepted as proof that the person is eligible to vote. In what could be a close election in '08, the illegals might hold the tipping point.

ILLEGAL immigration is a sticky problem for democrats because 70% of voters are against amnesty and priviledges for ILLEGAL immigrants, and democrats must somehow hide their plans to open our borders and give them voting rights so they have 20 million more poor uneducated democrat voters who want free healthcare and welfare priviledges.

We don't have an illegal immigrant problem like the fear-mongering rightwing lunitic fringe would have people believe.

What we have is a serious illegal employer problem.

Except for the occasional political refugee, nobody would come into this country illegally if nobody in this country (including people in the underground economy, which needs to be addressed by repealing laws against people eating or drinking or smoking whatever they want, and against having consensual sex with whomever they want) would give them a job.

Until the Federal government does its job and seriously prosecutes every employer who hires undocumnented immigrants, no wall will be able to keep them out.

And as soon as nobody will hire them, the remaining illegals in this country will be making a rush back over the border, and out of this country.

Come the election primaries, illegal immigration is going to be one of the main events. No public servant is going to walk away unscathed, except for perhaps Tom Tancredo and Duncan Hunter. In the last few months I have seen a massive growing audience of voters attentive to the anti-illegal alien grassroot orgainsations. Except now reputable sites such as numbersusa have 500.000 members and the momentum is growing. Political Activists on this subject are found on every forum, on every message board around the United States. The argument is fermenting and the taxpayers are sick and tired of paying the way for illegal employers. Even Sen. Hillary has hurt her reputation in her relationship to the growing concern of this domestic policy. McCain has paid the price and I believe that Ted kennedy who promised no more amnesties in the 1986 Simpson/Mazzoli bill may not come up for air. Citizens have began to realize this is a globalist agenda, not much different from the European Union. Even the native Englishman is starting to retaliate against being dictated to by a foreign court. Behind the American globalist agenda is cheap labor to lower wages for U.S. citizens and this has been seen as treason by many people. I am afraid the worst is to come as extremist groups like "LA RAZA" infiltrate our system of government and try to undermine "THE RULE OF LAW." Eastern states assemblies have become aware of the welfare burden upon its residents and enacted harsh laws against the illegal immigrant occupation. The media has already cited that thousands are fleeing these states. As the growing concern widens and millions of more voters become aware of the globalist agenda. More and more advocates for rigid immigration laws will have an adverse effect on any political figure who denies the peoples will.

There should be no comfusion on this matter. It is a black and white issue. You are either for it or against it.

States are blaming the federal government, "our elected politicians" while special interest groups are lobbying hard to get comprehensive immigration reform passed "amnesty".

New York wants to issue drivers licenses where California has rejected this issue.

I am against illegal immigration however, if our politicians can not make up there minds there is a solution.

We need a Article 5 Constitutional Convention. This issue can be addressed along with the many other problems like political corruption and true lobbying reform.

The convention can address issues the politicians refuse to.

It dosen't take a rocket scientist to figure out that our political system is broken. The people are no longer being represented. Business and special interests run this country.

A Article 5 convention is the only solution before a civil war or some other form of violence developes.

You can not out source jobs, import cheap labor, enter into every free trade agreement without hurting the middle and lower class.

Illegal Aliens and Immigration is NOT the same thing. 80% of the American people want an end to anarchy!

Illegal (aliens) workers are criminals, those who hire them are criminals and those who aid-and-abet them are criminals.

Illegal aliens in America have NO rights. We are required by law to arrest and prosecute, deport them. (Title 8 U.S. Code)

No, matter your political party affiliation, and setting aside your thoughts on issues. We all need to remember what it is to be an American Citizen. We need to make sure our elected representatives obey their Oath of Office and keep their Oath of Allegiance.

See http://tinyurl.com/2znnvl Know whom you are voting for.

Whenever there is one-issue based on xenophobia, it'll stick with those who want things simple, and want to feel good about themselves and hate anyways (aka the Republican base). There is a sucker born every minute, and a lot of them turn out to be one-issue Christians and Dobbsian Wingnuts.

I am an undocumented worker, and as such, in principle, I favor anything that gives the undocumented people some reprieve (as in this case, flawed as it is, the NY special drivers license).
But even I am scared of Mrs Clinton duplicity. She should have had the courage of stating clearly what she thinks on the matter.

I heard at least twice during the recent Democratic Presidential debate Hilary Clinton blaming the current administration and specifically president Bush for not solving the problem. This is absurd, because indeed the legislative branch failed to pass the law, to which Senator Clinton belongs. On the other hand, the efforts of administration to solve the illegal emplyment problem according to the current law have been blocked by our judicial branch.
Democrats will solve nothing because they have to deal with voters as well as with their very own liberals.

We don't have an illegal immigrant problem like the fear-mongering rightwing lunitic fringe would have people believe.

What we have is a serious illegal employer problem.
...

Posted by: John E | November 2, 2007 3:23 PM

We have both- it is naive to think that only enforcing the demand side of this will decrease the supply side- doesn't work for the war on drugs and it will not work for the illegal immigration problem.

As long as entering the country illegal is illegal:

We need a wall- this has been funded already and not built..
and
We need to enforce the laws we have-both the employers and people entering illegally are breaking the law.

It is not one or the other-

Immigration as a crisis issue was fabricated by the Republicans in order to stir up some fear going into the 2006 elections. It blew up in their face. The Democrats don't need to rush to act. This is a longterm systemic issue not a crisis, and it requires longterm systemic solutions such as revamping NAFTA so Mexicans aren't forced off their farms and out of their villages and come north to look for jobs to support their families

We have an immigration policy. All we need to do is enforce it. We should stiffen penalties for all who violate these laws. Illegal employers and illegal employees. Make the penalties severe enough and enforce the law and nobody will hire illegal immigrants and that will be that. If we need foreign workers, to do those jobs that Americans will not do, then we have policies in place for people to immigrate legally.
Failure to enforce our laws is a failure of government. Republicans and Democrats are both guilty in this failure. Any politician who is not willing to come out and say, "I stand for enforcement of all immigration laws." should not get one vote. No matter what party affiliation they claim.
One nation, under God, with liberty and JUSTICE for all.
Justice exist only when all laws are enforced. No exceptions.
If we don't like the laws, the way they are written, we don't simply ignore them, we change them through due process.
Until they are changed though, we must enforce them.

Why is it always a '...problem for Democrats'? It seems like everything is a problem for Democrats. Gee, I seem to recall another party out there. I seem to recall the Repug. National Chairman resigning over just this issue. I also seem to recall one party actively demonizing an entire ethnic group. This same ethnic group is expected to continue growing over the next 25 years.

I guess since cub reporter, Christi Parsons says this is a problem for Democrats, we'll just all have to take her word for it. Thank goodness we have cub reporter Christi on the job to make sure to spin it as 'bad for Democrats'. The only problem with this story is that our fearless cub reporter forgot to include some macho Republican talking points. Oh well, better luck next time Christi!

When are the pogroms scheduled for?

I don't want to be around when the politicians finally get the fear and hatred whipped up to a high enough level that the good solid white americans start surging through hispanic neighborhoods, looking for illegals to "deport". The sound of glass breaking as rocks are thrown through the windows of stores that have hispanic language signs displayed will be the sound of the end of the american experiment.

A new Kristallnact is not far off.

K W Smith:

"poor uneducated democrat voters"

Isn't that a redundancy?

The democrats can forget about my little vote. None of them are willing to support the American people on the immigration issue. The rest of the democrats in this country need to rise up in protest as these candidates court their votes. I, for one, am tired of my taxes being increased every year.

Our policies have the same effects on the sender nations (Mexico) as they do here...only magnified:

-the sender nations started with smaller middle classes to start with so they have been more quickly destroyed

-the sender nations have smaller economies so the effects of globalization are more quickly felt

-the sender nations started with economies that were already weighted heavily towards the ruling classses, so this wealth shifts have had more devistating effects.

-the sender nations already had more lax regulation of business and more monopolistic economies.

-the sender nations already had governments more controlled by business interests and economic elites.

We need to realize that the unbridled global capitalism that is currently fueling the shift to a two-tiered economy here in the US is going on all over the world, and to attack the victims of this unbridled global capitalism will do nothing to change the current paradigm.

The answer is to change the policies and those who advocate them (Republicans)....not blame the victims.

But as long as Republicans can tie the destruction of the middle class to some imaginary brown invasion, bringing crime and disease, intent on re-conquering lost lands ...the average American will never really do what is necessary to change the current situation ....but instead lash out against those least able to defend themselves .... but somehow I think they, and their corporate sponsors, already know this.

It's all smoke and mirrors, and unfortunately too many Americans are all to willing to fall for it, proudly calling themselves "Republican Patriots".

The Democrats are going to get crucified when it comes to dealing with illegal immigration and the millions already here breaking our laws. Especially since they are all endorsing immigrant-friendly policies. They are way too involved with La Raza, which is really a racist organization aiming to legalize any and all Mexicans who wish to come here illegally. The majority of Americans do not want ANY form of amnesty. Enforce the laws and hold businesses liable for hiring illegals and let the chips fall where they may. Also stop the anchor babies too. Check out the SAVE Act that is due to be proposed shortly, by a Democrat, of all people. This may work.

We need a wall- this has been funded already and not built..
and
We need to enforce the laws we have-both the employers and people entering illegally are breaking the law.

It is not one or the other-

Posted by: heartburn | November 2, 2007 4:03 PM

Who do you think is going to build your "wall", numnuts?, I'll tell you who it would be, ILLEGALS!

The Canadate who stand the hardest against Illegal Immigratioon will will the election.

And that is not Hillary. This canadate needs to have the illegals families to get elected and stay for 8 years.

Hillary is bad news America...

When are the pogroms scheduled for?

I don't want to be around when the politicians finally get the fear and hatred whipped up to a high enough level that the good solid white americans start surging through hispanic neighborhoods, looking for illegals to "deport". The sound of glass breaking as rocks are thrown through the windows of stores that have hispanic language signs displayed will be the sound of the end of the american experiment.

A new Kristallnact is not far off.

Posted by: Ashamed | November 2, 2007 4:24 PM

Ashamed-

You should be...

Talk about whipping up fear and hatred...

"IMMIGRATION ISN'T A PROBLEM IN AMERICA"

BEING HUMAN AND RECOGNIZING YOUR NEIGHBOR AND YOUR FRIENDS AS PEOPLE AND PERSONS.

WHAT DID AMERICA DO IN 1865 AND 1965. THE RIGHT THING TOWARDS A BETTER TRANQUILITY AND A BETTER NATION, A NATION OF PEACE AND BROTHEREN. WE MOVED ON.

SO WITH AN EXECUTIVE ORDER WE CAN MOVE ON. HOWEVER YOU LOOK AT IT, WHATEVER SIDE OF THE AISLE YOU ARE ON. THE NEXT DAY, IS LIKE YESTERDAY, ONLY HE OR SHE IS NOT ILLEGAL BUT ACCEPTED IN AMERICAN SOCIEITY AND ALLOWED TO BE OF FREE CITIZENSHIP.

MERIT BASED IMMIGRATION, OR THE DREAM ACT.

AMNESTY IS REALITY AND REALITY IS AMNESTY.

SATIN BILL 1639 WASN'T IT.

CHERTOF IS NOT MY FATHER, AND SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO DICTATE MY NATIONALITY IN THE WAY HE SEES FIT.

READ THE BILL.

Who do you think is going to build your "wall", numnuts?, I'll tell you who it would be, ILLEGALS!

Posted by: John E | November 2, 2007 4:50 PM

Great- a Win/Win solution!

Not sure if you got lucky, or thought of that yourself, but good job! keep em' coming!

. . . . There is a sucker born every minute, and a lot of them turn out to be one-issue Christians and Dobbsian Wingnuts.

Posted by: The Big Orange Satan | November 2, 2007 3:55 PM

And some of them hang out in blogs and call themselves The Big Orange Satan. Only a sucker would give up the protections of the rule of law - which is exactly what you propose to do by opposing those who seek to have our laws enforced.

They way the Wingnuts go after the brown and black people makes me think of what we used to do in this country to people who we thought were witchs.

All the Republick Party "leadership" has to do is throw out some sort of perceived "evil" bone to the Republic Party followers (mexicans, commies, blacks, gays) and the little robots will start drooling and barking (heartburn, K Dubya Smith).

Our problems are not always caused by other people like the Wingnuts on here would have you believe, in order to solve a problem you must first look inword to find out if you yourself are not a part of the so-called problem (big business).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52vcspOpH94

Wait till we are paying $3 per head of lettuce, $4 per tomato, and mashed spuds? Fergitaboudit.

Prediction; In 5 years we will be begging these people to come back and work as human pollinators once all the bees are dead.

It isOUTRAGE! over Pandering Politicians,
Criminal Employers engaged in a Darwinian Wage Race to the Bottom.
Thinktank Quislings and Ethnocentric
Race Based Organizations who are aiding and abetting Illegal Aliens efforts to game,abuse and circumvent
the Laws of the USA That is the Driving Force behind the growing will of
Legal Citizens to finallySTOP the INVASION
of Illegal Aliens into the USA!
It is NOT Racist to obey the
Rule of Law ,Illegals can march and cry
all they want today ,Recently they were
marching in our streets saying "Today we March Tomorrow We Vote"
Now we know they have been voting
all along illegally.

!

Only a sucker would give up the protections of the rule of law - which is exactly what you propose to do by opposing those who seek to have our laws enforced.

Posted by: John W. | November 2, 2007 5:41 PM

http://thoreau.eserver.org/civil1.html

Not sure if you got lucky, or thought of that yourself, but good job! keep em' coming!

Posted by: heartburn | November 2, 2007 5:27 PM

I finally figured out who you are:
http://s102.photobucket.com/albums/m110/chr1s_87/?action=view¤t=Coultergeist.jpg

....nice outfit!

Only a sucker would give up the protections of the rule of law - which is exactly what you propose to do by opposing those who seek to have our laws enforced.

Posted by: John W. | November 2, 2007 5:41 PM

You mean like the "Patriot Act" and Habeas Corpus?

You might want to check in with the Republick Party "leadership" for some new talking points, John.

Don't you just love it? We americans have a problem with people coming into our country illegally, and having their children in hospitals at our expense, sending their children to be schooled at our expense, subsidize their housing at our expense, and generally overtax our social services to the point of collapse in some instances, and we are supposed to be bigots and racist if we object? Only the looney left liberals could expound such reversed logic. Unfortunately, we have democrat presidential candidates catering to this nonsense. I would be very wary of anyone referencing "undocumented workers" or "immigrants" without identifying them as ILLEGAL, for they believe this crock, but fearful of expressing it out loud before they attain office.

Check out numbersUSA dot com and Californians for Population Stabilization. K W Smith is on target. Both parties want an uneducated mass of poor to which to minister, in return for votes. Neither party has made the progress it wanted to in dumbing down our schools, so they want to open the gates.

* * * * *

You mean like the "Patriot Act" and Habeas Corpus?

You might want to check in with the Republick Party "leadership" for some new talking points, John.

Posted by: John E | November 2, 2007 6:18 PM

John E. John E. John E.

The rule of law regarding immigration was on the books long before our Numbskull in Chief was sworn in as President. In opposing illegal immigration, and seeking to have that rule of law enforced, I am actually standing with many people on both sides of the aisle AGAINST Duh’bya. He, and many others who favor big business over everyday Americans want illegal immigration to continue. They don’t care about the rule of law – or the interests of Americans – as you have shown.

But I do care, and there are a lot of people who agree with me on this one. And some of them are Democrats. So what I am talking about isn’t a “Republick (sic) Party” talking point. It is a pro-America and pro-American talking point.

Figure it out.

* * * * *
Posted by: HDT | November 2, 2007 6:07 PM

I sympathize with Thoreau’s views on government, to the extent that government is often a necessary evil – and often less necessary than “evil.” However, time has judged Thoreau to be an idealist, for whose ideas time has not yet come. At the rate society appears to be devolving before our very eyes, I have begun to doubt that we can ever live in peace with one another without some government.

So, instead, I have to face reality and agree with James Madison’s statement:

“But what is government itself, but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary.”

The implication is, of course, is that neither men nor human governance can go without rules because of our imperfections. Practically speaking, we need something bigger than ourselves – a law or two perchance – to keep others from harming us, and to keep us from harming each other.

That was the point the founders had in giving Congress the power “[t]o establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization . . .” (U.S. Const., Art. I, Sec. 8, Cl. 4.) The entire set of laws on the books regarding immigration an naturalization are based on that power. Congress exercised that power, and expressed the will of the entire American People, when it created the rules governing the circumstances under which a person from another country might immigrate here to live on a permanent basis. That is the rule that is now being flung down and stomped upon by those who wish to open the borders without any regard to the law.

Immigration is a tough issue for anyone to tackle.

Illegal immigration is not a tough problem. It only seems so, because our politicians do not want to address it, just deliver lip service to american citizens, while working hard to bestow citizenship priviledges to illegals.
All the federal government need do is set up SS# just like a visa or mastercard, instantaniously verifiable, and reject bogus or stolen numbers on the spot. Without jobs, many illegals will return home. Just like Mexico, if you are here illegally, you must show means to pay for hospital care before being admitted. Children born of illegals should not automatically become US citizens. A border fence must be built to deter illegal entry; and any illegal arrested for a crime needs to be deported after serving their sentence. Is that so hard?

“Republick (sic) Party” talking point. It is a pro-America and pro-American talking point.

Figure it out.

Posted by: John W. | November 2, 2007 8:14 PM

uh-huh, yeah, ok if you say so...
http://www.bushflash.com/14.html

I find this a case of strange bedfellows. I have always voted for the Democrats and despised the Republicans, primarily for their views on business interest vs. the environment and the rich getting richer, but any candidate that supports any form of amnesty for the 20 million people that have entered illegally or overstayed a visa, will never get my vote.

It is wrong to reward anyone with legal residency or citizenship that enters illegally or overstays a visa. It encourages disrespect of other laws and encourages more illegal immigration. A strong message needs to be given that illegal immigration is wrong and will not be accepted.

William Wick, Democrat of Indiana. 1847 "Did not want any mixed races in our union, nor any color except white".
John C. Calhoun, South Carolina.1848 "Ours sir,Is the government of a white race"
Senator John Clayton of Delaware 1848 "Axtecs,Creoles,Half-breeds, Quadroons Samboes...All will come in and instead of governing them, they, by their votes will govern us"
Comments made before the treaty Guadelupe Hidalgo brought one hundred thousand Mexicans into the US after the Mexican war.
Not much has changed.

I can't wait for the effect of States going after Illegals. . .ya'll gonna pay $3.00 for an apple; $5.00 for strawberries; loss of taxes due to business bust.

hahahaha. . .

It is amazing that the DIPs (Democratic Illegal Party, formerly the Democratic Party) are so completely out of touch with Americans and even with the most basic American value of the rule of law.

I guess DIPs were so desparate for power, to please the 18% of Hispanic Americans in the USA because their demographics show they are presently the fastest growing group.

But it seems they believed their own spin, that it was just talk show hosts getting American racists riled up and it would all settle down. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

I have been a Dem voter for over 20 years but not this time. There are 100% wrong on illegal immigration.

Seal the border, enforce the laws, deport all illegals, modify legal im migration to make it a better system, do away with family reuificaiton and replace it with the best and brightest. And pass a law that if either parent of an American was in the USA illegally when the American was born, they are forever barred from being brought into the USA.

Hey Dave:

K W Smith:

"poor uneducated democrat voters"

Isn't that a redundancy?

Care to explain why the blue states subsidize the red states? Could it be that us Dems are better workers, more productive, and dare I say smarter than y'all Repugs? If not, why the flow of federal money from the blue states to the red?

Well the illegal immigration invasion has come very close to destroying the United States, but the fight isn't over yet! We'll finally be rid of these lawless invaders soon. We have hell to pay for not enforcing our laws sooner with vigor, but we can pick our own lettuce, and grow crops! Sure will be nice to have the United States back, so we can get a job, and not have to speak spanish to order a hamburger! Now I will be called a racist, and all manner of ugly things because I've told the truth!

"The challenge for Democrats is that many Latino and civil rights leaders lean against drastic reform measures, while some potential Democratic voters are worried about the economic and cultural impact of immigration and want to see some kind of crackdown."

In other words, democratic presidential hopefuls are in the position of having to side with special interests or the people they claim they want to represent. Evidently it's a tough choice.

Would you vote for a presidential candidate who declares that they won't enforce the laws of our country? Of course not; yet that is exactly what ALL democratic candidates said when it come to enforcing the immigration laws on sanctuary cities in this country.

Hillary, Obama and Richardson are backed by La Raza, a Latino hate group out to take over the U.S.

MEChA's founding principles state: "In the spirit of a new people that is conscious not only of its proud historical heritage but also of the brutal gringo invasion of our territories, we, the Chicano inhabitants and civilizers of the northern land of Aztlan from whence came our forefathers, reclaiming the land of their birth and consecrating the determination of our people of the sun, declare that the call of our blood is our power, our responsibility, and our inevitable destiny... Aztlan belongs to those who plant the seeds, water the fields, and gather the crops and no to the foreign Europeans...
"For La Raza to do. Fuera de la Raza nada."

That closing two-sentence motto is chilling to everyone who values equal rights for all. It says:
"For The Race everything. Outside The Race, nothing."

These words don't come from a fringe radical element. These come straight from the official MEChA sites at Georgetown University, the University of Texas, UCLA, University of Michigan, University of Oregon, and many other colleges and universities around the country.

Professor Jose Angel Gutierrez, founder of La Raza Unida Party, Director of "Movimiento Latino USA de Los Angeles", has proudly said: “We have an aging white America… . They are dying… . They are ******** in their pants with fear! I love it!” He then demands: “We have got to eliminate the gringo, and what I mean by that is if the worst comes to the worst, we have got to kill him.”

La Raza backs Richardson; Obama and Clinton: "Even if he does not win, he will be in great position to negotiate with the victorious nominee, whether it be Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton or one of the many other Democratic candidates."
aztlan.net/richardson_for_president.htm

Audio clips of the true agenda of Illegal Alien Lobby and the agendas of MEChA, La Raza, MALDEF, and Southwest Voter Registration Projects:
theamericanresistance.com/race_industry/true_agenda_audio.html

Put an end to the Mexican flag flying above ours!
RON PAUL / TOM TANCREDO IN '08!
...all other candidates are amnesty / status-quo

numbersusa.com
fairus.org
alipac.us
capwiz.com

Democrats, Republicans or Independants...WE ARE ALL AGAINST ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION!!!

And I personally am sick of ILLEGALS stealing the causes of what Black people in this country had to fight for in the civil rights movement, etc.

With the exception of Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton...most black people hate Illegals for that. Black people did not break any laws and then demanded a right to be here. Don't you ILLEGALS understand that.

Please stop all the sob stories about breaking up your families - you bought this apon yourselves. Didn't you break up your families when you left your country to come here?

Any politician that is trying to sneek this illegal alien issue under the radar - well, you are ALL criminals, and you deserve one another.

We can pick our own vegetables and fruits? Please. . .I've never seen Americans pick strawberries as a career.

I've picked strawberries on my uncle's farm before just for fun. I can tell you my backs hurt like hell. . .

Immigration is totally out of control and our infrastructure is overwhelmed. The solution isn't complicated, just enforce the laws. The fence DOES work to slow and stop border crossers. American citizens have had it with immigration policy being controlled (or not) by the corporate, political and intellectual elite who want to bring down U.S. borders for their own gain at the expense of the country's institutions. Immigration and law enforcement are being shamefully whip-sawed on the issue, while opinions of our law-makers are plummeting.

I'm so glad most people get it though I still see some of the groundless rhetoric about the costs of produce going up and it's only an issue because of republicans, or it's a racial issue.

In FACT Bush, McCain, Specter, Lott, Graham, etc.. tried like hell to get the last amnesty passed but failed. And it failed because most republican senators, along with 15 democrats, opposed it.

As for the race card many don't have a clue. Check out these FACTS: About 47% of voters of Hispanic descent voted for Prop 200 in Arizona which denied some freebies to illegals. Update: Arizona voters just passed Props 100, 103, and 300. AP poll

PHOENIX — About half the Hispanics who voted Tuesday in Arizona supported a successful ballot proposal that makes English the state's official language, according to an exit poll by The Associated Press.

The other props, all of which passed by a large margin, denied bail to illegals and denied tuition and other education breaks. EXCELLENT! Thank You, Arizona. So don't try to tell me that anyone that supports such measures is a racist.

EVERYONE that has a clue knows the answer: Cut off the incentives and you'll cut off the problem. And THE number one incentive is money/jobs.

This country needs to stop rewarding people that have shown a contempt of our laws, our borders, and our nation.

No retreat. No surrender. No amnesties.

Let's put the blame on the right guys Bill Clinton. he did nothing to stop illegal immigration.because his cronies needed cheap labor and along with both bushes they got the job done. hillary is just an extention of the plan, and their bring down the rest of America, we have to stop them now.Oklahoma has the right idea, contact your state officals, and push for the same law in your state.Ask Hillary what she did about the vaccine program, with her failed health ins program .It wasn't bush's fault we had a shortage of flu shots last year it stemed from Hillary's plan. hillary didn't know anything about the white house, or pardons,and now billy boy is saying she didn't know about his so called letter, does any one beleive the clinton's and chech out her contributors, she said she would return all contributions that were given to her illegally . what charity did she give it to, and when she left the white house how did poor hillary wind up with the white house furniture, if we had stolen like she did we would be doing 10 to 20 years thank you

* * * * *

Care to explain why the blue states subsidize the red states? Could it be that us Dems are better workers, more productive, and dare I say smarter than y'all Repugs? If not, why the flow of federal money from the blue states to the red?

Posted by: Sam | November 3, 2007 2:31 AM

Sam,

Blue states subsidize red states (if they do, and to the extent they do) because blue states tend to have the largest population centers in the country. California, New York, Illinois and most New England States are blue states. In fact, the only high population red state is Texas. And it makes sense that states with higher populations will “subsidize” states with lower populations because more taxes are collected from the states with higher populations.

But this does not prove that Democrats are “better workers, more productive” or even “smarter” than Republicans or anyone else – as you so arrogantly assume. Many blue states have large Republican populations. They are only blue states because a majority of the voters are Democrats, and not because they are 100% Democrat. So, to prove your points about Democrats being the “supermen” you portray them to be, you will have to do better than show that blue states subsidize red states. You will have to show that Democrats, as a class, are better educated, better remunerated, and better producers. Given the demographics of the membership in each party, that might be a little tough to prove.

I can't wait for the effect of States going after Illegals. . .ya'll gonna pay $3.00 for an apple; $5.00 for strawberries; loss of taxes due to business bust.

hahahaha. . .

Posted by: lou | November 3, 2007 1:46 AM

If that's the price we have to pay for having laws that are enforced, then so be it. No one has any vested interest in a violation of the law. The fact this country has been enjoying the fruit of illegal activity for so long - as you often point out - does not mean we shouldn't have to pay for those mistakes.

K W Smith:

"poor uneducated democrat voters"

Isn't that a redundancy?

Posted by: Dave | November 2, 2007 4:32 PM

I guess it would be if the blue states didn't have the highest IQ's http://chrisevans3d.com/files/iq.htm, highest net incomes http://houstonstrategies.blogspot.com/2007/10/red-vs-blue-state-real-estate.html, lowest divorce rates (Massachusetts having the lowest) http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?articleId=8971, as well as the aforementioned systemic net welfare payments to the red states.

You have your finger on the pulse of absolutely nothing.

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You have your finger on the pulse of absolutely nothing.

Posted by: DaVe | November 3, 2007 4:33 PM

And neither have you, Dave. See my response to "Sam" above.

Terrorists can only kill a few of us at a time....whereas the illegal, illiterate, immigrant from a 3rd world country can BANKRUPT all of us.

So, to prove your points about Democrats being the “supermen” you portray them to be, you will have to do better than show that blue states subsidize red states. You will have to show that Democrats, as a class, are better educated, better remunerated, and better producers.

Hillary is going to get slammed on this issue come the presidential debates. Romney is going to tear her a new one. I have known this for months.

Look, she cannot hide her record anymore. She has voted for illegals in just about every circumstance. That will be used against her big time. She even voted against the amendment to keep felons out of the "Z visa" scam that Kennedy and McCain were trying to push.

She is toast.

According to numbers USA dot com, a democrat (believe it or not) is actually authoring an enforcement only bill and the Republicans are setting up to cosponsor the heck out of it. It is the Democratic leaders that are so wrong on this issue. Tired of overcrowded ER's and schools and depressed wages for those of us that do not speak spanish. And I am really tired of the unions hypocrysie on this also. They are suppose to be for the worker!

Re: "A new Kristallnact is not far off."

Please stop the Nazi comparisons for native born Americans. This is primarily a rule of law issue. The cultural component is that illegal immigrants drive down wages and have no vested interest in this land as citizens do.

So much ignorance & fear. The scapegoating seems to have gained a foothold now.

At last the citizens of this country have spoken about the illegal alien plague, that have had massive economic consequences on the taxpayer. The predator employers have now something to worry about, as well as all pandering politicians in the upcoming 2008 elections. Our leaders have set of a short burning fuse, when they tried to slip into law a gigantic illegal alien amnesty. A Dream Act that would have given tuition priority of the children of citizens and legal residence. Even this week a new farm bill is in the works, with yet another AMNESTY for cheap foreign workers. But the news is already been broad casted far and wide and without doubt our open-border and free-trade, globalist politicians are going to hear about it, like seething acid in their ears. No longer waiting for Imperial Bush and his Royal court to seal the borders and ports, to strictly enact the laws of the 1986 Simpson/Mazzoli Immigration Control laws. A number of forward thinking states including Arizona, Georgia and Oklahoma have enacted rigid Immigration laws, to stop illegal employers and the welfare support of illegal aliens. While other states such as Illinois, Denver and of course Los Angeles have been pegged as Sanctuary cities and I now could lose federal funding, plus being sued by the Federal Government. Several newspapers have cited the exodus of illegal foreign nationals from Oklahoma, as a legal presidence will give reign to other states following their example. I cannot emphasis this paramount development, that shows the ordinary citizen have the power of the vote and will use it against the pro-illegal immigrant globalists in the 2008 general election. The power of THE PEOPLE cannot be intentionally played with, by mindless puppets of our leaders. The race card has no further value, because the taxpayer sees the astronomical costs extracted from them, while the pariah employer pays little or nothing for cheap labor upkeep and their extended families. The American people have had it up to their neck with the freeloaders, who are self-deporting or by "ATTRITION." For those citizens who need answers that cannot be for filled in the major media go to illegal.globalincidentmap.com/images/top.jpg This website will amaze you as it does inform the uninformed.

We need to pass another NAFTA and make sure we keep Mexico's economy is ruins. We shuld make those people starve to death, then lets spend all our money on a wall. Then let's go after the employers on no issue (health and safety, labor violations, not offering health insurance...) EXCEPT for immigration. Then the US working class will really be in a great position. Dont forget the hyperinflation that will ensue when we deport everyone, which will lead to depression. All we have to do then is wait for rapture