John Kerry accepts oil man's $1 million challenge

You might want to proofread the first sentence of your Kerry story, if you want to look like a real journalist.

We'll see how this plays out. Worthy charity. Kerry seems to be taking his cue from Rush Limbaugh, though. Course, when Limbaugh challenged the Demoncrats to pony up money to the Marine Corps Law Enforcement Foundation in regard to the Demoncrats communist-inspired attempt to attack Limbaugh, Kerry and the gang became silent.

Something tells me Kerry will end up being silent again. And, Mr. Kerry, are you getting the monehy to donate from your ultra-rich wife????

Wow. Good for Kerry. He finally appears to be learning. I suspect that Pickens will welsch on the deal. Typical Republic.

Frank, please keep on top of this story if it goes anywhere. I'm guessing Pickens will chicken out being a man of no honor.

No John. They didn't try to discredit the others, only your "winter soldier" lying self.

Better yet, hit'em in the pocketbook. That's what these wimpy Neocon guys hold dear, above all else.

Given that Bush/Cheney supporters are directly responsible for the continued killing and maiming of our men and women in the Armed Services, it is only fitting that they pony up a little cash to care for them. You know, the real deal, instead of cheap, Made-in-China "support the troops" bumper stickers.

Every eyewitness supports Kerry's story.
Every official document supports Kerry's story.
Every piece of physical evidence supports Kerry's story.

I hope Pickens has to apologize to Kerry. Nah, he's too rich to actually respect the soldiers who protect his precious little arse.

I won't be happy until I see this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/45936529@N00/524589871/

Well done, Senator Kerry.

Why do you title your article with, "rich oil man"? Go ahead and say his name. Anyone in the know will have heard of him. Also, why do you call it a "bluff"? This rich oil man has donated hundreds of millions of dollars to countless universities and medical entities.
I would put his accomplishments up against John Kerry's any day of the week.

Wow, that Kerry really knows how to respond quickly and hit 'em hard. He'll answer those Swift Boaters riiiiight awaaaay. Just as soon as he finishes his latte'.

We'll see how this plays out. Worthy charity. Kerry seems to be taking his cue from Rush Limbaugh, though. Course, when Limbaugh challenged the Demoncrats to pony up money to the Marine Corps Law Enforcement Foundation in regard to the Demoncrats communist-inspired attempt to attack Limbaugh, Kerry and the gang became silent.

Posted by: John D | November 16, 2007 4:10 PM

How would Rush Limpone even know anything about Kerry's military service in the first place? In 2004 Rush was in the middle of a severe Oxycontin addiction.

You have got to be the dumbest person who posts on the Swamp and that's a pretty big accomplishment when you consider the sheer stupidity of the average Republic Party member these days.

Jeff Beane --

Well, I dunno. T. Boone Pickens is a rich guy who made (and continues to make) his fortune in the oil business. What would you prefer he be called -- "selfless philanthropist entrepreneur T. Boone Pickens"?

-- Bokonon

Jeff Beane --

Well, I dunno. T. Boone Pickens is a rich guy who made (and continues to make) his fortune in the oil business. What would you prefer he be called -- "selfless philanthropist entrepreneur T. Boone Pickens"?

-- Bokonon

John D....you are just jealous you don't have a rich wife...come up with a better retort.

"Kerry seems to be taking his cue from Rush Limbaugh, though."

Posted by: John D | November 16, 2007 4:10 PM

John, only freaks like you take cues from Rush Limbaugh.

Pickens will lose but he won't pay because these rich swifties are all about lies.

Okay, the first line of the story is fixed. Now go on to line number two.

Its pathetic that Americans allowed a veteran to become the enemy while draft dodgers (Romney, Bush, Limbaugh, etc) somehow become heroes. How does this happen if we are really a country that supports its troops? Or do we only support the ones that share our views?

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/06/veteran_retracts_criticism_of_kerry/

...yesterday, a key figure in the anti-Kerry campaign, Kerry's former commanding officer, backed off one of the key contentions. Lieutenant Commander George Elliott said in an interview that he had made a "terrible mistake" in signing an affidavit that suggests Kerry did not deserve the Silver Star -- one of the main allegations in the book.

Yesterday, reached at his home, Elliott said he regretted signing the affidavit and said he still thinks Kerry deserved the Silver Star.

"I still don't think he shot the guy in the back," Elliott said. "It was a terrible mistake probably for me to sign the affidavit with those words. I'm the one in trouble here."

One other reason Kerry lost was not only the Swift Boat incident, but because of his outspoken, sometimes too liberal wife, Teresa. Small minded people in this country don't want a First Lady with such progressive views, especially one who was born in Mozambique, whose father was Portuguese, and who became an American citizen through marriage. Americans still have their prejudices. SEE
http://www.kmike.com/KerryMrs.htm

Bokonon

Where do you come up with "selfless"?

Humanitarian contributions
Pickens and employees of his BP Capital LLC donated $7 million to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. The Chronicle of Philanthropy listed Pickens as the fifth-largest charitable giver in 2005. He has donated nearly a half a billion dollars to philanthropic causes during his career.
On May 16, 2007, Pickens donated $100 million to two University of Texas health care institutions. The gifts were donated to the UT Southwestern Medical Center at Dallas and The University of Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center in Houston. The donations are required to grow to $1 billion within twenty-five years before they can be disbursed by the recipient institutions.
On August 23, 2007, Bizjournals.com reported that Pickens is donating $2.5 million to Happy Hill Farm Academy/Home, a residential school for at-risk children and teenagers, to build a training center and guest lodge. Pickens donated $1 million to Happy Hill Farm for the construction of a new academic campus at the residential school in February 2007. [3]
Donations to Oklahoma State University
In recent years, Pickens has focused his energy on his alma mater, the Stillwater campus of Oklahoma State University (OSU). Through his contributions, Pickens has spearheaded an effort to create an athletic village just north of the existing campus. In order to do so, hundreds of homes were purchased by the OSU administration using Pickens' contributions. As a result, Oklahoma State will have world-class athletic facilities. Pickens' gift remains the largest donation to a university's athletic program in collegiate history. His total contributions to OSU come to over $290 million dollars. Over $265 million, or 92%, of his donations have been towards athletics. Pickens also has made substantial academic gifts to Oklahoma State University, particularly to the School of Geology, which is named for him.
On December 30, 2005, Pickens made a $165 million gift to Oklahoma State University. The New York Times reported that "the money spent less than an hour on December 30 in the account of the university's charity, O.S.U. Cowboy Golf Inc., before it was invested in a hedge fund controlled by Mr. Pickens, BP Capital Management." Pickens, who is on the board of the O.S.U. Cowboy Golf, waived any management fees for the OSU monies (although this agreement was not reduced to writing), however, and all profits of the fund go to growing the OSU gift. The gift is intended to help fund an upgrade of the football stadium and construction of an athletic village, but sparked controversy because OSU planned to use eminent domain to acquire residential property for the projects. The donation comes after a $70 million gift from Pickens to OSU in 2003, which was similarly structured using O.S.U. Cowboy Golf, Inc. On ESPN's Pardon the Interruption, Michael Wilbon said that after these gifts, Pickens "is now the owner of Oklahoma State athletics", and remarked that "no coach should dare run afoul of Pickens now...He's got everyone in Stillwater in his pocket, which is dangerous."
On July 28, 2007 the Board of Regents of Oklahoma State University approved a resolution to move $28 million from the OSU Foundation into Pickens' BP Capital Management company in Dallas. Oklahoma State has previously invested $277 million in the fund. Pickens has been waiving fees for the university's investments with his fund.

I seem to remember that the other boat captain who kept repeating to a fawning press that there "was no enemy action that day," turned out to have gotten a commendation for himself for conspicuous bravery on that very same day, in that very same action.

Asked about it later, he said he just plain forgot about the battle and his commendation and how could he be expected to remember all that?. But he continued to claim that there was no battle that day and that Kerry was a liar.

Scum.

Sadly, The anti-Kerry comments are as solid as Bush winning the Presidency. If Those on the right cannot come up up an intelligent response, please keep quiet.Sadly, they subscribe to an old English adage, "perambulating on the outskirts of verbosity", and these wing nut cannot fathom that, well we will finally come to realize the kind of retards that support the Republican Part, et al

Pickens has donated to university "athletic" teams not to the university for such things as, oh, i dunno, research or teaching. Also he is not an "oil man" as he likes to portray himself but a middleman like the enron guys and a greenmailer who cost a lot of people at Phillips 66 and other profitable businesses their jobs with his stock blackmailing tactics. And, of course, he didn't serve his country like Kerry.

Booyah! Love it. Nicely done, Senator Kerry.

Jeff Beane-

Get a dictionary. Look up "selfless"

Pickens must donate or pay taxes. Its the rich mans dilemma. Better to get some public recognition than simply write a check to the IRS.

I hope Kerry gets the million, but who will be the judge of the truth in this matter? interesting.

2 selfish idiots fighting.....cool maybe one day they can find truth......God is love...fighting is Satans way...lets all fight? and die?
or maybe love? pricks! God is love!

Shawn Fossett, you nailed it. I read your link from the Boston paper, which was written in 2004. It seems to provide John Kerry with more than sufficient information to prove false "a single fact" of the Swift Boat Veterans. This Lt. Cmdr Elliot retracted his comments immediately. In fact--I never knew this--most, if not all, of the "swift boating" of John Kerry was based on Cmdr. Elliot retracting his own previous statements! And, it was Elliot who recommended Kerry for the medals in the first place! This guy is either a total dunce (which I doubt) or bought and paid for by the megalomaniacs like T. Boone, Richard Sciafe and every other freakin' CEO in the United States. I also never knew that all the swift boaters were on other boats who knows how far away from the events in question! And, while the media deserves a shitload of the blame, Kerry should have been able to say these guys are lying and I know two things that day: I shot a VC running with A ROCKET LAUNCHER and, later that SAME day, my boat blew up and I pulled this guy Rasmussen out of the water. I didn't recommend myself for the medals, and I never asked for no medals! But, he didn't and we got Bush a second time. How's that working out for you?

Who cares what he donated to. He and his lying friends tried to ruin the reputation of a true American hero. Just because he was in Bush's pocket, you neocons try to glorify him.

enough is enough !

Kerry wasn't so much the problem as was the direction of the Democratic Convention. It should have been a historical review of the Bush's criminality; reminding the American people that he was not elected but appointed by SCOTUS. The Democratic Party should have crucified Bush during the convention, and not mentioned very much about Kerry. Let's hope the next Democratic candidate goes on the attack. Never sell yourself--destroy the other guy. Remember, TOO, the American attention span is VERY short.

Pickens--just one more soldier in Rove's unholy army. Some philanthropist, he throes money at OSU athletics. Industrialist Jon Huntsman (a republican), donated $100 million to the University of Utah, $10 million of which was directed to a new cancer institute. The remaining $90 million is being used to retain and fund world-renowned scientist and researchers in the field of genetic research, molecular biology, and other fields of cancer research. Huntsman likes his sports, he made a separate donation of $5 Million to the athletic department, but his priorities are where they ought to be:

http://www.alumni.utah.edu/continuum/winter95/HNTSMAN.html

Set your calendars people, the national nightmare will be over soon (but not soon enough):

http://www.sfgate.com/columnists/morford/

Kerry seems to be taking his cue from Rush Limbaugh, though. Course, when Limbaugh challenged the Demoncrats to pony up money to the Marine Corps Law Enforcement Foundation in regard to the Demoncrats communist-inspired attempt to attack Limbaugh, Kerry and the gang became silent.

Posted by: John D | November 16, 2007 4:10 PM

An explemplary republican post. Using a universally despised label to demonize a huge population of people who don't agree with you. Been used by almost every hateful extremist bigot who ever walked the earth.

How about a debate between Kerry and the various bottom-feeder chickenhawks that make up the GOP noise machine: Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Brit Hume, Charles Krauthammer, Bill Kristol, that dude Coulter, and any others who would crawl out from their rocks to attend

FINALLY!!!!

BRAVO..........

Never accept anymore lies!

Perhaps Pickens wants Kerry to be redeemed from those personal attack ads. Maybe he'd like to lose this bet but can't openly turn his back on his party.

Those Neocon swiftboat chickenhwaks down in Texas should be proud, afterall look at what those weenies have "mission" accomplished.

The Bush/Cheny Administration:

-Spying on Americans
-Lying to Congress
-Waging a "Pre-empitive", Unnecessary War
Torturing Prisoners
-Operating Secret Prisons
Ignoring Pre-9/11 Warnings

GUILTY ON ALL ACCOUNTS!

The Chicago Trib ran a very good article about this in 2004 which was written by one of their staff members, I believe, who served with Kerry. He had a very different recollection of the events in question than the GOPers who appeared in the ads.

Still, it comes down to who you believe. I never understood why anyone actually thought the SBVT guys had any credibility, with their sudden and very generously financed objections to Kerry's military record some 30 years after the fact. But how could you prove or disprove any of it? Trial by jury with subpoenas for financial records? Hmmm, it might be fun to see the everybody involved testifying under oath...

This is the usual Frank James/Swamp article, where only one side is presented.

And as usual, Frank James tries to conceal the facts from the readers: in this case, that Pickens has already responded to Kerry. And responded by pointing out that Kerry is STILL concealing his service record from the public. As the AP reports:

"In his response, Pickens wrote: "I am certainly open to your challenge," but he said he would not pay Kerry unless the senator first provided him with copies of his wartime journals, as well as movies he shot while on patrol and his complete military records for 1971 to 1978.

Pickens said such documentation, which the group has previously sought, would be needed to disprove its ads.

"When you have done so, if you can then prove anything in the ads was materially untrue, I will gladly award $1 million. As you know, I have been a long and proud supporter of the American military and veterans' causes," Pickens wrote.

He also proposed a counter-challenge: "If you cannot prove anything in the Swift Boat ads to be untrue, that you will make a $1 million gift to the charity I am choosing -- the (Congressional) Medal of Honor Foundation."

If you were interested in presenting both sides, Frank, the article would be so much better.

The full AP article can be found at http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2007/11/16/kerry_takes_oilman_pickens_up_on_1_million_swift_boat_challenge/

Kerry should have been able to say these guys are lying and I know two things that day: I shot a VC running with A ROCKET LAUNCHER and, later that SAME day, my boat blew up and I pulled this guy Rasmussen out of the water. I didn't recommend myself for the medals, and I never asked for no medals! But, he didn't and we got Bush a second time. How's that working out for you?

Posted by: jimbojames | November 16, 2007 6:00 PM

Very well put jimbojames. The fact the republicans rip on a guy who served like Kerry speaks volumes about thier integrity. None

Just what is it about the crackpots posting here that they refuse to accept the goddamned facts about Kerry's confirmed navy records and continue to think that Bush is honest and hasn't ruined the fucking country?

So, Bruce, you said:
"And as usual, Frank James tries to conceal the facts from the readers: in this case, that Pickens has already responded to Kerry. And responded by pointing out that Kerry is STILL concealing his service record from the public."

You also said:
"If you were interested in presenting both sides, Frank, the article would be so much better."

Well, here's a little tidbit of that article you must have missed. I'm sure it was completely inadvertent. Here's the quote:
"Ever since, Kerry has worked to lay the criticisms to rest.

In May 2005, he began signing the Standard Form 180, giving reporters access to his full Navy record personnel and medical records -- something he refused to do during the campaign.

Subsequent reviews showed those records mostly duplicated documents Kerry released during the 2004 campaign. In addition, they included numerous commendations from commanders who went on to criticize Kerry's service during the presidential race.

That disclosure renewed questions about why Kerry did not respond more forcefully with control over the White House at stake."

If your whole argument is based on that article, you obviously missed the most relevant part. Too bad it doesn't fit with your warped view of the situation. Kerry isn't concealing anything anymore, and the only reason he didn't allow the release all of his documents before was because he (wrongly) thought that responding to the charges would legitimize them.

Pickens will probably not take the bet because he knows he'd lose. Or he may try twisty stuff and an embellishment.
Nevertheless Pickens is being challenged as he should be. It will be interesting to see how he squirms on this one.

I have never wavered in my support for John Kerry since I met him on a speaking tour for the Vietnam Vetrans Against the Way. What was done to him was an echo or the ugly tactics employed against the very honorable Max Cleland in Georgia. Please note what has since been revealed about Ralph Reed and how that former head of the Georgia Republican party has sunk like a rock. Abramof's dirty money was all over the former head of The "Christian" Coalition. I applaud Senator Kerry's confrontation of Republican sleaze at its worst. Oh, what it has cost the country that the Swift Boat advertisements were "effective." Note that the main perpetrator was once in the employ of Richard Nixon as a sleaze smearer against Senator Kerry. Validation and Vindication at last!

Bottom Line. Bush and Kerry were called, Mr. Bush went to Tx. ANG and Mr. Kerry went into active duty Navy, Mr. Bush went AWOL, Mr Kerry went to Vietnam. END OF STORY
Jerry F. USMC "59-63"

Republicans lie. Swift Boaters lied. Cash only, please.

Perhaps Pickens wants Kerry to be redeemed from those personal attack ads. Maybe he'd like to lose this bet but can't openly turn his back on his party.

Posted by: bdillar

You might have something there. He has the deepest pockets imaginable, so there's no hit he can't take. I'm tired of believing the worst about everyone.

Typical Republican wager...you prove it but only by handing over a lot of irrevelant material so you will have it should Kerry ever try again. Of course, with his kind of money, cutting, splicing and altering what Kerry would had done would be par for their course of behavior. Seems to me, proof would be related to that one day and that one incident and nothing else. Boone is a fraud who I am sure has become much richer as a result of his part in making sure his boy George got elected. My uncle was in oil business (vice president of a major oil company) and though a Repubilican and bred and born Texan, he had nothing good to say about the man 25 years ago when I first heard of him and asked him about Boone Pickens. My uncle was far better judge of character, built by his own courageous behavior during World War II. He always said, you did not walk in to a concentration camp without coming out profoundly changed with what is really important in life. He was a fiscal conservative Republican witha social conscience--what we now call a moderate Democrat or Independent. Even as a Republican Texan, my uncle did not support boy George, either. He was not that impressed with his governorship and certainly not of HIS military record!

No facts will ever be accpeted by Pickens - it will be like arguing evolution with a creationist. Yes but, here's the facts, disprove the dinosaurs are burried deepest because in 4004 BC they could not run as fast as people.... That's the kind of argument Pickens and his ilk will use. And turn the argument - we were after Osama, Mission accomplished, now its for freedom -- and we have a new enemuy Iran. Pickens can never see a fallacy. His mind is made up, don't confuse it with facts.

Here's another dopey lib,John Kerry,that lied to Congress about his fellow soldiers during Nam.
He took his cam-corder with him and after 3 months in Nam came out with self-serving videos and 4 medels,that some say,he awarded to himself!
What a great [soldier]....?

Paulo

"In his response, Pickens wrote: "I am certainly open to your challenge," but he said he would not pay Kerry unless the senator first provided him with copies of his wartime journals, as well as movies he shot while on patrol and his complete military records for 1971 to 1978.

Pickens said such documentation, which the group has previously sought, would be needed to disprove its ads.

snip -

Heck of a thing to leave out. So, no real offer of 1m$ - just another smear tactic - It might be fun if Kerry presses ahead -

That's pretty personal stuff, your service record and killing men. So angry you did it with your bare hands and for what? Dominos? Vietnam was lost and no dominos ever fell. Russia and China did not prosper as a result of leaving Vietnam. War is failed policy - it is ultimate failure. Vietnam became a trading partner.

I thought Kerry would have made a terrific President but he he fought his campaign using Marquis de Queensbury rules while the other side was going for the nuts. The next Dem challenger better be ready this time!

I hereby offer $100 billion to anyone who can prove that T. Boone Pickens didn't regularly screw chickens as a teenager.

juannie d says ...

And, Mr. Kerry, are you getting the monehy to donate from your ultra-rich wife????
______________________________

I guess juanniee d can't read. Kerry is getting the money from Pickens. Of course, it doesn't surprise me juaniee d can't read. HE can't think either.

Hey, Paulo --

The camcorder didn't come around until the 80's. You must be a republican. It must be a skill to have the ability to utter untrue and rather daft things without pause or any guilt. The facts are never on their side. Pity.

Why would it be hard to prove, hell his military record is an open book not like GW Bushs.
Or are we going to call the military officers who's names are on the papers Liers.

The one million dollars is a "cost of doing business" expenditure.

By raising this old canard about the Swift Liars, and getting Kerry to rise to the bait, they have effectively injected Kerry into the '08 election.

It's what digby says: the Beltway insiders ("the Village") are disappearing Bush, and intend to play the mainstream media narrative as if there is a direct succession from Bill Clinton to Hillary Clinton.

Backup plan: re-fight '04, and eat up all the oxygen, debating whether John Kerry is a hero or a coward.

(I wouldn't be surprised if they have another Top Secret plan, buried somewhere, in case Al Gore decides he's seen just about enough, and steps up to the plate.)

Elective war for profit, "unitary presidency", suspension of Constitutional rights on the premise that "everything changed after 9-11", and an Office Of The Vice-President that answers to absolutely no one... all this will have never happened, when you see the narrative unfold, in the run-up to November of '08.

pillow said...
_____________________________
Here's another dopey lib,John Kerry,that lied to Congress about his fellow soldiers during Nam.
He took his cam-corder with him and after 3 months in Nam came out with self-serving videos and 4 medels,that some say,he awarded to himself!
What a great [soldier]....?

Paulo
___________________________

Wow how can you even start discussing how stupid, illiterate, ignorant and fatuous pillow is?

Medels? Learn to spell, or is it because you are an illegal immigrant and don't speak native English?

Kerry lied to Congree about his fellow soldiers? Please list these lies.

Cam-corder? Did "Cam-corder"'s exist in 1972?

Awarded to himself? So you say the US Military has no control over awarding of "medels"? Or are you saying that, well, what the heck are you saying? I think nobody here has any idea what your unintelligible ramblings mean.

Bruce,

You say Frank James is presenting only one side. However, this is not an opinion piece - it's a factual account about a challenge and a response. There is no cheerleading for either side in this article that I can detect. In fact, the only cheerleading is in your reply, when you characterize Pickens' response as "pointing out that Kerry is STILL concealing his service record." What you fail to point out is that Boone's response could as easily be portrayed as putting conditions on his challenge he didn't see fit to mention when he first made it, or that his conditions smack of a fishing expedition.

As for your charge that James tried to "conceal facts," your case is very weak. Could it be that James posted his story before Pickens' press release was available?

And even if James knew about it, while I agree that the story would have been better, it hardly merits your charge of concealment. The story covered the initial challenge and response factually. Pickens' counter-response does not in any way change the facts that James presented.
Weak or strong, the story stands on its own merits.

Speaking of merit, an accusation that relies on mind-reading the author's intent has none.

John Kerry You Liar:
I have followed your changing story closely over the years, and it's quite clear to me that you didn't deserve the Silver Star. Your award cheapens the two Silver Stars awarded to men in my outfit, one of whom died in Vietnam. The misleading citation for your Silver Star lends great credence to all your fellow officers, who courageously told the truth about your other decorations. And I sure as hell know that you were lying when you slandered me and my men before the Senate Subcommittee in 1971. I'm not rich like Mr. Pickens, but please accept $100 of the same bet with the same conditions that you agreed to with him. Dave Barber, Former Captain, Vietnam 1967-68

He took his cam-corder with him and after 3 months in Nam came out with self-serving videos and 4 medels,that some say,he awarded to himself!
What a great [soldier]....?

Paulo

Posted by: Paulo | November 16, 2007 7:53 PM

Paulo, at least he can spell. Go back to school!

T. Boone Pickens has just spent $1 million for a worthy cause.

I think he should be horsewhipped too, but then, I would not really ever whip a horse, so not sure I could find someone who could and would give him his just desserts.

It is just beyond credulity that he has so little understanding of what he bankrolled that he would even dare make the claim.

In fact, its so nearly impossible that I suspect he will wriggle out of it, or simply write the check and claim the tax benefit for the gift to charity and hope John Kerry goes away.

Not likely... they've created a new word..and a singular meaning - hanging on their names into posterity.

T. Baboon Nose-Pickens wouldn't know the truth if it bit him in his bloated, oil-soaked, over-privleged, right-wing Texas ass.

Oh sorry, Texas ass is redundant.

Kerry should have had this attitude in August 2004.

Then it would have done more good and kept a couple of Federalist Society wackjobs from getting on the Supreme Court.

Americans love phonies. I don't know why, but it's true. Most will prefer the phony every time: John Wayne over Audie Murphy, Richard Nixon over George McGovern, Bill Clinton over George H. W. Bush, and George W. Bush over John Kerry. Something about us resents the real thing. Maybe it's because we're pretty much ALL phonies?

Dave Barber, Former Captain, Vietnam 1967-68

Posted by: Dave Barber | November 16, 2007 8:40 PM

Get lost you phony clown.

Where do all of these rightwing lunitc fringers come from, is there a special little rock that you guys live under only to crawl out and scare people at election time?

I served in the delta with the 9th infantry division 1967.I really don't think too much of the swift-boaters.Those that didn't like John Kerry's testimony before congress didn't serve in the same Vietnam I served in. I was already home when General Ewell took over the division. He had a nickname, the "Delta Butcher" He would give 3 day R&R's for ears. Only trouble was the troops were killing civilians, taking ears for the R&R's. This practice stopped when the press got ahold of what he was doing.(Competition for "body count" with the other units) I've also had to "clean-up" after the swift-boaters when they called artillery on a small village, I guess they were to scared to get off their boats to see what they had done. Yes, Kerry told the truth in 1971, I didn't see the rape but I could hear the screams. I know about the Rung Sat, Plain of Reeds(free fire zone)and I know that when Nha Be was getting mortared like three nights in a row, WE, were sent out to find the gun position, you'd have at least thought that the Navy could do their own patrolling! I guess they were too busy with the girls in the village at Nha Be. Enlisted men back on base by 10 o'clock and officers by 12:00. Ya, you "swift-boaters sure had it tough! They should'a sent your asses up north!There are some "Swift-Boaters" that are truly honorable men, some paid the price and there are a bunch of shitheads like the SBVFTT who would support a draftdodger for vice-President and an AWOL coward for President. Must be for the money. We'll someday see eachother and I'll have to pay for my misdeeds. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes!

John Kerry called your bet Mr. Prickens. Good for him, I supported him for President in the '04 election for just that reason. You see, Mr. Kerry, when called to serve, he served.

Whether you realize it of not, some of the most dangerous service in the conflict was the "Brown Water" Navy. Kerry was the skipper of a riverboat crew. He led that crew into harms way on numerous occasions. They were fired upon and not just once.

I don't know the specifics of Kerry's service, but I do know this, HE SERVED. When he returned, he spoke up about the atrocities and the stupidity with which the war was being waged. It was proven later on that he was more right than wrong.

Where was your guy during all this? He was learning at government expense to fly fighter planes somewhere in Texas to make sure he never had to fly them over Vietnam, and then failing to report for duty in Alabama or Georgia. He was AWOL because he had money, influence and knew he wouldn't feel any repercussions. Daddy had the "big bucks" so he'd get out of his obligations and never set a foot in "harms way".

It does seem as though you changed the bet after he took you up on it Mr. Prickens. As I understand the bet Kerry needs to disprove 1 charge made by the Swift Boat Committee. After accepting the challenge he now has to turn over his wartime journals, video shot while on patrol, and his complete military records. Sounds like you changed the stakes after the bet was made.

The ante to play in this game is to disprove 1 allegation. That is the bet. Get your check book out Mr. Prickens, and have a pen handy. Put your money where your mouth is, or shut your mouth and leave a veteran who was in harms way alone.

I love when Liberals fall all over themselves to defend reporter's censorship.

Perhaps GOP-slimers should note that the AP article DOESN'T say that John Kerry has released his service records to the public. It only says that in 2005 he "began signing the Standard Form 180, giving reporters access to his full Navy record personnel and medical records -- something he refused to do during the campaign." He "began" signing. And so far the records have only been released to a friendly Boston reporter--not to the public at large.

That's how the Left operates: Kerry conceals facts; Leftie reporter conceals facts; then Leftie responders slime anyone who points this out.

To my mind this "swift boat" campaign was never the central issue over John Kerry.

The real ethical issue was his known behavior.

The ambitious rich boy went for a quickie stint in Vietnam to earn some political bona fides.

During his four-month stint, his wonderful work was running his boat up and down rivers, intimidating peasant farmers, shooting heavy machine guns across their fields.

By all accounts he was eager in the deadly work.

In one case, he chased down a man and shot him in the back. That act is undisputed, even by Kerry.

A medal for shooting a man in the back? You get the country you deserve.

Well, of course, far worse was done in the hellish savagery of Vietnam.

It was a time of utter madness. It was a holocaust in every sense.

America slaughtered 3 million people - many of them in truly horrible fashion - just for embracing the wrong economic model.

I always think the black wall in Washington is a fitting memorial. National shame is the appropriate emotion.

He took his cam-corder with him and after 3 months in Nam came out with self-serving videos and 4 medels,that some say,he awarded to himself!
Posted by: Paulo
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Don't forget the shrapnel that he still has inside his body. Are you still wearing your band-aid with the purple heart drawn on it? I can hardly think of a more callous insult to all of our troops than to insult every single soldier who has taken a hit in combat.

The Swift Boat Veterans didn’t lie. Kerry has offer no evidence that they did lie and yet the loony left think that he made point a here. He made no points. He just said he is prepared to make points.

Kerry is a traitor & a fool and the lefties that support him and his radical partners as they refuse to support our troops are a traitorous to our troops today as he was to the troops in Vietnam.

Good Lord! Kerry has had 4 years to disprove the swiftboat accounts ... and he now welcomes this "opportunity"? He doesn't need a debate, just send his proof in a certified letter ... that is if he has something besides hot air ... we know he has plenty of that. Just more empty grandstanding by a blowhard politician.

The Swift Boat Veterans didn’t lie. Kerry has offer no evidence that they did lie and yet the loony left think that he made point a here. He made no points. He just said he is prepared to make points.

Kerry is a traitor & a fool and the lefties that support him and his radical partners as they refuse to support our troops are a traitorous to our troops today as he was to the troops in Vietnam.

Posted by: CJ Testify | November 17, 2007 10:38 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good Lord! Kerry has had 4 years to disprove the swiftboat accounts ... and he now welcomes this "opportunity"? He doesn't need a debate, just send his proof in a certified letter ... that is if he has something besides hot air ... we know he has plenty of that. Just more empty grandstanding by a blowhard politician.

Posted by: K W Smith | November 17, 2007 11:11 AM

Here's the deal you two Republic Party mental midgets:

John Kerry - served our country, he showed up when he was called, end of story.

George W Bush - The guy you clowns voted for dodged the Vietnam draft by having daddy Bush get him placed in a special National Guard Unit for sons of rich and privledged kids and when he got there W. decided that he would rather snort coke and get drunk as a skunk (including being AWOL) than be bothered by serving our country.

http://bushspeaks.com/home.asp?did=157
Idiots....all of you Rethugs, idiots...

Kerry is a traitor & a fool and the lefties that support him and his radical partners as they refuse to support our troops are a traitorous to our troops today as he was to the troops in Vietnam.

Posted by: CJ Testify | November 17, 2007 10:38 AM

CJ,
I pity the valiant soldier that will one day return from combat duty in Iraq and sets his eyes on holding an elected position in our government, for he will be met at every turn
in his effort by individuals like yourself that are willing to impugn and trash his service record, and then label him a traitor to his country.
The S.B.V.T and stooges for their effort - that means you CJ - have set a dangerous precedent by legitimizing the tactic of grossly and unfairly laying waste to the
accomplishments of former members of the military that desire to continue serving this country.
I hope someday you come to your senses and hold your head low to the ground in shame for what you have done not only to John Kerry, but to any returning soldier that decides to seek public office.

I guess I'm a traitor and a fool for having served in combat. 100%disabled.
I wonder what choice of words C.J.Testify has for those that had five deferrments and a President that went AWOL and never finished his commitment to Our Country. I'm really glad that "Georgieboy" didn't lay the wreath at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, he'd have given himself a Purple Heart for slipping in Cheney's runny shit. Yellow, just like the stripes down their backs!
Most junior grade officers I knew would've given their right arm for a command assignment. Many of them did, like Max Cleland, another traitor and fool,he must have lost his limbs in a car wreck on his way to cheerleading practice!

This is as close as George Bush ever came to actual combat:
http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blbushcheerleader.htm

At least Kerry showed up for Nam.

What the cons can't stand is that the Dems, Gore, Kerry, Kerrey, Daschel, Kennedy, Rangel, Cleland, many others, all at least have military records that are solid enough to prove their service.

I hope Kerry cleans the Picker's clock.

Anyway, it's way too late. Without a doubt Kerry's slowhand approach to the Swithboater's attacks was a stupid mistake on his campaign's part.

"in his effort by individuals like yourself that are willing to impugn and trash his service record, and then label him a traitor to his country."

johnf,

Great point. Without a doubt the not so Swiftboater's have called into question every Purple Heart that was awarded in the VN war. Same for the Swiftboat supporters here on the swamp.

C Morris, Daschle was military??? Ok, whatever you say.

Hmmm, these Republicans are all military too: George Bush, WWII hero; Bob Dole, WWII hero; Eisenhower, WWII hero; McCain, Vietnam hero; Duncan Hunter; Mark Kirk; John Warner; Oliver North; Donald Rumsfeld.

Pickens is a dishonorable man. He won't pay up.

John D,
He was in the Air Force.

I never said they (those Repubs) weren't in the military.

I was listing Dems service that has been questioned for political reasons. That's the subject of this debate.

"C Morris, Daschle was military??? Ok, whatever you say."

You're such a crackpot, Dyslin. Don't you ever get tired of being so ignorant?

"Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72"
http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2007/Info/military-service.html

When did you serve, Johnny D?

John D.,
Perhaps you need to read "Revolt of the Generals" (TIME April 16 2006)Most of these Generals are STILL Republican, have LED troops in Iraq,and refused another star so they can reveal the incompetence of the Bush, Cheney and the Rumsfield "Strategy for Democracy in Iraq" As for Republicans that have served their Country Honorably you can add General Batiste and General Zinni. If I was you I'd scratch Rumsfield, he served but never in combat.
Oh, by the way, Mr. Bush "Don't need no Iraq Study Group" he's "The Decider" and if he can't be "The Decider" he'll pick up his ball and go home!!!

ABC aired a program in which they went to the village where the battle in question occurred.

They interviewed many people in the village. These people were very proud of the fact that they had supported the VC. They even bragged that weapons were still buried under their gardens from that time.

These villagers showed documentation and provided details about VC deployments in their village. These villagers were able to identify where the VC troops had been deployed from and the structure under which they operated. They were also able to identify by name the VC fighter that Kerry is credited with eliminating. They showed from manifests that a grenade launcher was deployed with the VC unit and confirmed that the VC fighter killed was armed with this weapon at the time of his death.

The villagers showed PAPERWORK to back up their statements.

The most interesting thing about the interview was the fact that the producer for the "swift boat" line of media products also visited the village a couple of weeks before ABC - and was told the exact same thing. He dicided it didn't match the story he was making up so he simply pretended the visit never occured. This places these "veterans" beneath scum in my book - their day will come.

If you are willing to accept a story from political operatives who weren't anywhere near the events while at the same time discounting the statements from the people who were on Kerry's boat and ignoring the people who were in the village and actually buried the dead - I guess I have to wonder what would convince you?

Honest facts and support of the GOP are incompatible.

PS: Spelling/grammer trolls - GO TO HELL - debate the points or shut up!

I am a World War II Vet and I remember the events of Viet Nam. Apparently most of the messages are from persons who were not even born during this time.
Senator Kerry is 100% right

Is it clear from Mr. Pickens challenge that he will pay $1 million each and every person who proves that a fact stated in an SBVT ad is incorrect? If so, I look forward to Kerry proving something wrong so I can lodge my claim. I understand that Pickens is good for $2.5 billion ...

John Kerry is a lying sleazeball! He has defamed every Viet Nam Era veteran as a war criminal. There is no part of hell hot enough for John "Fonda" Kerry!