McClellan: President and others misled him

This will not change a thing for the wingers at all. John D will be on soon saying that no crime was committed so it doesn't matter that Libby lied under oath only that Clinton did. Besides, they will tell you that just because the facts are that Plame was undercover, they will still claim she wasn't. They will also tell us how she "deserved" it. Such great Americans all.

Scott McCllelan is just trying to sell a book this isn't news.
The news is Joe Wilson and his wife Valerie Plame are partisan Democrats who spun the tale to make money.
Plame was not covert and Patrick Fitzgerald knew it that's why he did not charge Richard Armitage who leaked her name she had not been covert for over five years. Robert Novak got the info from Joe Wilson's Who's Who in America bio published by Marquis.
This is just another driveby media attempt to bash President Bush. Jerry White, Springfield, IL

In the scheme of things, the Plame affair does not seem large.

However, it is very important for what it revealed about the character of Bush and those around him.

Pure slime.

bill r.:

Correct as always - the preeminent right wing nutjob, Jerry White, is already spewing the usual rants against Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame.

Time to break out those two famous questions:

"What did the President know, and when did he find out??" And also ask the Vice-President that. If anyone wants to know why Scooter was pardoned, the reasoning is right here - you lie for me, I'll pardon you later.

Rep. Conyers, the ball is in your court.

Jerry:

Novak did NOT get the information from Who's Who. And if Valerie Plame was NOT covert, why did the CIA go to the Justice Department to investigate the leak??

Thanks for proving my point Jerry. Don't let the facts get in your way. Put you're pom poms down and get your facts straight.

McClellan's time to be a national hero came and went. He had an opportunity to expose this deception and prevent the wretched Bush/Svengali regime from spending another 4 years in the White House. That made him part of the problem. Now he joins the book of the month club and expects to make a mint with his after the fact revelations. It is unconscionable that American leaders lied and deceived us in order to go to war. That is what is so sickening about the Republicans and their corrupt morals. They sent 4,000 of our brave citizens to early graves and put 10s of thousands more into a host of debilitating physical and mental conditions to satisfy their megalomaniac desires.

If Nancy Pelosi and the House do not impeach Bush, or at least have an investigation, then she should be impeached for failing to execute her duties. Failing that, the citizens of this country should ban together, tar and feather the Republicans, and drive them all into the Potomac.

As much as I'd like to see George Bush in jail for all his misdeeds in office I'm a little suspect of this story. If McClellan knew they were lying then why didn't he say something at the time? Why does he wait till now to bring this to light? Isn't covering up a crime just as punishable?

Bill R., no crime was committed. Did Patrick Fitzgerald indict anyone for "outing" Valerie Plame? No. Did he even come close to indicting anyone over her "outing"? No. Was there anything to indict over? No.
Did Scooter Libby lie and obstruct justice? Perhaps. He was indicted for doing so and was found guilty. However, in jury testimony after the verdict there is little doubt that most jurors were partisan. There was contradictory testimony by nearly everyone involved, including the media. And, in the end, the one who actually mentioned her name to Bob Novak was Richard Armitage, hardly a conservative partisan.
This has been the biggest nonscandal in U.S. history.

Truth be told, once this "blew up," all involved should have come forward and said, "The evidence we had was that Joe Wilson was recommended for this position by his wife Valerie Plame. We did not know she was covert, in fact the evidence indicates she hasn't been covert for several years now." That should have been end of story at that time.

But since you brought up Dear Clinton, does the so-called "outing" of Valerie Plame equal the Chinese Campaign Donation for U.S. military technology scandal? No. How about Whitewater? No. Castle Grande? No. White House Travel Office? No. White House coffee klatches? No. White House pardon scandal? No. 1,000 FBI files in White House? No. Constant sexual harrassment? No. Intimidating Kathleen Willey to shut up? No. Releasing private documents about Linda Tripp? No. But that one is close in severity. So, you folks don't mind that all private documents about Linda Tripp were intentionally released by the White House on Linda Tripp, violating privacy laws, but not OK with the accidental release of Valerie Plame's name???

Bush Sr., former head of the CIA, must be so proud.

Jerry, you might want to get your head out of your ass - or at least out of Rush Limbaughs ass. Regardless of party affiliation outing a CIA officer, who was covert (trying doing some actual reasearch), is treason.

John D, your verbosity in defense of liars and fools is very unconvincing. Your tendency to mentally masturbate to the infatuation that you have with your heroes in the White House is enchanting. I think that if you look at what you wrote you would be amazed at how utterly illogical it is. Why do you go on a head trip about Bill Clinton? Everybody knows he was a rat. The issue is the men who govern your country today. You were not in the White House, but the spokesperson for the president was. And he is telling what he knows. Please do not ignore the fact that your Bush sent thousands of your fellow citizens into a war on the strength of lies and deceptions. That is irrefutable factual information no matter how you try to slice and dice it and link it to Bill Clinton. Get a handle on your masturbation, use a condom.

Does the US still maintain capital punishment as optional punishment for the crime of Treason? Oh god please tell me that we do.

McClellan and the publisher are trying to flog McClellan's upcoming book--a book that few people would be interested in.

So they do what many publishers do these days--release in advance an anti-Bush excerpt (in this case, 3 paragraphs of a 400 page book) knowing that the drive-by media will give them a million dollars in free publicity.

One other point: as you might expect, the "Silva rule" strikes again in this article. Mr. Silva quotes the publisher of McClellan's book, Peter Osnos, but fails to mention that Osnos, a former Washington Post reporter, is a Democrat party activist who has (according to FEC records) contributed at least $2,000 to the DNC.

This "story" is all about the money, and the anti-GOP partisanship of the media.

Impeach and removed Pres. Bush for treason ...

More info on publisher Peter Osnos that the DNC Swamp tries to hide:

1) the publishing house doing McClellan's book is tied to George Soros, convicted financier and sugar daddy to all things left.
2) Susan Osnos, Peter's wife, is also among the relative handful of people who are big contributors to the Dem Party, having given $2,000 to John Kerry in 2004.
3) Peter Osnos was personally responsible for publishing Barack Obama's first book. See http://www.tcf.org/list.asp?type=NC&pubid=1425
for a fascinating look at how a politically connected publisher operates. Osnos has also published books by Democrats Bill Clinton and Wesley Clark.

By leaving out these well-known and easily found facts, the DNC Swamp is the one trying to mislead the public.

Impeach and execute Bush and Cheney for treason and war crimes against humanity.

Bush and Cheney deserve to be impeached and executed for treason and war crimes against humanity.

"This "story" is all about the money, and the anti-GOP partisanship of the media."

Another one with the dial stuck on Faux News Channel. The "liberal media" spent years defending this President and fixing his mistakes until his mistakes could no longer be hidden and his numbers dropped. Its sad that people just take what is said by a few of the most dishonest people in the media as fact. If you don't know who those few are, you're probably part of the problem. Do some actual independent research.

If this is all true it is a sad day for America. But this seems to be a trend by our elected leaders, both Democrat and Republican. President's Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon misled the country on Viet Nam. In the 1990's President Clinton was not truthful to the American public and a Grand Jury. He paid for this by getting himself impeached and disbarred. And now President Bush seems to fall into the same mold. The United States needs leaders that are truthful and will be straight with them in these troubled times. We have an election coming up but I am not optimistic. Most of the current Democratic and Republican candidates are tied to special interest groups and will say anything to get elected.

If this is all true it is a sad day for America. But this seems to be a trend by our elected leaders, both Democrat and Republican. President's Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon misled the country on Viet Nam. In the 1990's President Clinton was not truthful to the American public and a Grand Jury. He paid for this by getting himself impeached and disbarred. And now President Bush seems to fall into the same mold. The United States needs leaders that are truthful and will be straight with them in these troubled times. We have an election coming up but I am not optimistic. Most of the current Democratic and Republican candidates are tied to special interest groups and will say anything to get elected.

I didn't know that Rush Limberger had so many psuedonyms. And thay all showed up here today!!

Poor Bruce, and John D as well, working so hard to maintain such willful ignorance. I'm sure you both feel you're, somehow, supporting your country at best, or just useful idiots for those who currently run the country.

I won't waste time reiterating the facts listed in other posts, but I do want to draw everyone else's attention to the fact that you two represent that 24% of the country who epitomize the ubiquity of the Dumbing Down of America.

This brings to mind the movie Animal House's Dean Wormer's statement: "Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life."

Had Clinton/Gore done anything remotely similar while in office those two would have tried to scale the Whitehouse fence in a drunken effort to hang them from a Whitehouse lawn tree limb.

The fact is, the Bush/Cheney administration committed treason during a time of war, and then had so many people lie about it Patrick Fitzgerald was not able to definitively complete his investigation.

Miles "Non-Revisionist Historian" Long

But since you brought up Dear Clinton, does the so-called "outing" of Valerie Plame equal . . .
-
No it doesn't. Exposing a CIA operative is treason, even if she wasn't covert.
And Johnny, Clinton was never ever convicted of any of those empty charges. Every time you bring up these lies, you reveal yourself to be a partisan liar. You may as well sign your posts "Johnny Liar", friend of Kathleen Liar.

Who is this white flag waving surrender monkey backstabbing liberal, McClellan? I don't like him! Nothing but your typical hit piece from the drive-by media.

Hey, where's your story about Bush saying that Musharraf "has not crossed the line yet," and that Musharraf "has advanced democracy"? I noticed that it isn't getting any play on the Trib's web site. Why not? If what Musharraf has done -- suspend the Constitution, jail protesters, put his opponent under house arrest, get rid of Supreme Court judges who don't agree with him -- does not "cross the line of democracy," then does Bush mean that it would be okay to do the same things here in the States? That might make a good story for page 17 in the Trib. No big deal.

Who is this white flag waving surrender monkey backstabbing liberal, McClellan? I don't like him! Nothing but your typical hit piece from the drive-by media.

Posted by: Stan Woodbridge | November 21, 2007 10:52 AM

He would be...the former press secretary to the president. You know...Bush. I don't believe he was chosen by the democrats...do you Stan? I also would like to compliment you on continuing the same old , worn out clich'e in regards to the "drive by media". You prove yourself to be a trusted Limpbag partisan robot. Do you also think for yourself?

Brucie:

So that means because the publisher of the book is a Democrat, it is all lies. What part of the statement from McClellan's book makes you say that??

Does that mean the books by all of your GOP friends like Ann Coulter, etc. are all lies because they are published by right-wing publishers??

Once again, the famous Brucie way - attack the messenger, not the message.

2) Susan Osnos, Peter's wife, is also among the relative handful of people who are big contributors to the Dem Party, having given $2,000 to John Kerry in 2004.

Posted by: Bruce | November 21, 2007 10:07 AM

Ladies and gentlemen, here we have rock solid proof that Bruce does not support women's suffrage. He is of the ilk who believes that women cannot vote independently of their husband. "One house, one vote!", says Bruce. You are a heckuva gentlemen Bruce. Attacking a publisher by attacking his wife for her INDEPENDENT political leanings. So thinly you veil your hatred of women.

You know I think Pres. Bush needs to be Impeach and removed for treason but that will never happend in this congress ... Why you ask? Its because Pres. Bush has about 8 more month in office to server his disgrace legacy and Dem won't do anything about it ... But one thing for sure, in the end, Pres. Bush will hand out alot of pardons in the case of CIA leak ...

2008 outlook
1. Pardon VP Dick Cheney
2. Pardon Karl Rove
3. Pardon chief of staff ?
4. Others

Jerry, John and Bruce,

So what do you think would have happened if the Democrats would have pushed for impeachment of the President prior to 2006? It would have gone exactly nowhere. It's called political reality. Even now, the Democrats have the common sense to know that by the time, they'd start impeachment proceedings and got things going, Bush will be out of office. Another reality.

My only consolation is that not only does Bush 43 have to live with himself for the various crimes that he has committed, he will have to live with his father. His FATHER is the one who pushed to have this legislation enacted because of things that happened to CIA agents. I'm sure he is more upset than most of us to find out how weak the law actually was, and that his feeble minded son would sink so low as to actually do something such as this to cover up the reasoning to take the US into an unjustified war.

Screw outing VP. The reason for all of this hasn't changed. Covering up lies that took us into a war that should have NEVER happened.

And you folks want to continue to run the country? How stupid do you think Americans are?

The head of the CIA said Plame was covert.

Anyone who says Plame wasn't covert is delusional.

"However, in jury testimony after the verdict there is little doubt that most jurors were partisan."

What does that even mean to you Johnny? I have a feeling that "partisan" to you is anyone who doesn't worship the Republican party with all their heart and all their soul like you do.

Having a political view point does not disqualify you from jury service. I know you'd love to take the Musharraf option and ban all non-Republicans from the civic life of this nation , but we retain Freedom of Thought, as much as you hate it.

How much more dishonesty and corruption do we have to endure? This story in isolation may not be a big deal, but when you add it to going to war on false pretenses, no bid contracts for friends, doctoring scientific facts on global warming, torture, illegal spying, and now outing a CIA officer and then misleading the American public this administration will be judged by history as one of the most corrupt in American history. Why are the American people allowing them to get away with it?

Johnboy, how can Bush pardon Cheney and Rove when they have not been charged with any crimes?

Bruce Y, Clinton was impeached, which is a conviction of sorts. In addition, on some of the more serious crimes such as the campaign finance scandal and FBI files in the White House, General Reno denied any investigations and whitewashed them herself.

GW, since you seem to have an infatuation with masturbation, does that mean you have no wife or significant other willing to lie naked in bed with you, so you have to pleasure yourself?

Treason was not committed by anyone. If treason was committed, Patrick Fitzgerald would have indicted as such. The word "treason" was never uttered by Fitzgerald, only you dregs on the Left, truly the worst mankind has to offer.

Also, McClellan at the moment is keeping quiet. How about we wait for the full book to come out and McClellan to do his press tours. Seems like a premature ejaculation by the liberal left media and its Loony minions to orgasm over.

How's that, GW??

Whenever is see "anti-GOP partisanship of the media" written I think its written by some someone who is intolerant of other opinions. The media is just doing what the media is supposed to do, unveil the truth. To say that media is unbiased would be naive, but its the closest perspective on the going-ons in Washington that your going to get.

Is Scott McClellan trying to make money? sure he is! Money influences everything, especially Politics! Id trust a Scott McClellans word, or a Valerie Plame's word over anything that comes out of this sneaky, secretive administration.

Insanity!!
Has anyone ever committed a prank, and sat smugly back while everyone blames some innocent bystander? Richard Armitage anyone? The media, liberal democrats and their bloggers have ran this beyond sanity. Fitzgerald knew before he started his witch hunt who outed Plame ... RICHARD ARMITAGE!! Why isn't HE in jail? Because Plame wasn't covert! This was just a trumped up opportunity to get some White House people on the stand to grill to try and find something .. anything to embarrass and or implicate Bush or Rove in something ... anything! It was a total travesty and misuse of power. This hate Bush crowd is just a mindless bunch of dolts!

2008 outlook
1. Pardon VP Dick Cheney
2. Pardon Karl Rove
3. Pardon chief of staff ?
4. Others

Lets not forget Freedom Medals all around!!!

Clinton was impeached, which is a conviction of sorts.

Posted by: John D | November 21, 2007 12:23 PM

Man you are the dumbest and the worst journalist ever Johnny D. Do you even know how to use a dictionary?

"Johnboy, how can Bush pardon Cheney and Rove when they have not been charged with any crimes?"

You should have asked Jerry Ford that before he died. Richard Nixon had not been formally charged with any crime at the time of Ford's pardon.

John D.

You have truly sunk to depths of logic that I didn't think was possible.

A jury convicting Scooter Libby did this because they were partisan. Just as any jury convicting any Republican such as Duke Cunningham is partisan. You folks are laughable.

Then you go on to say that because an extremely partisan group of Republicans who brought charges of impeachment against a President (in retribution for Nixon and other things) is somehow NOT partisan. More to the point when the impeachment charge DOESN'T pass, that simply making the charge is enough to prove Clinton's guilt.

Please your logic has given way to your spinning.

Do you have ANY idea of what the truth is on ANY issue?

These are major felony crimes!! Impeach Bush and Cheney now tomorrow....

"Clinton was impeached, which is a conviction of sorts." WOW. I know most of you right-wing types had a hard time accepting the fact that Clinton was actually ACQUITTED (which is the opposite of a conviction, "of sorts" or otherwise), but I never until today witnessed one of you actually revising that history. Bravo sir, you are a breed beyond the typical Republican.

Also - Lefties being "truly the worst mankind has to offer"? Really? What about the terrorists who are actually trying to kill us? Are your countrymen who disagree with you politically really worse than those who would blow themselves up to kill us all? What a sad little individual you are.

"JERRY WHITE SPEAKS"
"JOHN D SPEAKS"
"BRUCE Y SPEAKS"
"TONY L SPEAKS"
"L.W. SPEAKS"

ARCHIVES DON'T LIE! BUSH KNEW ON 9/11, BUSH KNEW PRIOR TO 9/11 AND BUSH KNEW AFTER 9/11 THAT HE AND DICK CHENEY ENTERED INTO A NEW PHASE OF SR. BUSH'S EFFORTS TO CONSOLIDATE AMERICA AND IT'S CONSTITUTION.

"I KNOW IT'S STILL AN ONGOING INVESTIGATION" AND, AND, WE DON'T TALK ABOUT ONGOING INVESTIGATIONS"

ALL THAT SPEAKS ON THEIR BEHALF IS PART OF A SMALLER MINDED SCHEME TO JUST OVERTHROW THE EMPTY MINDS OF MAN AND HAND IT OVER TO THEIR SAFETY NET, AKA HOMELAND SECURITY AKA "the secretary"

JUST THINK HITLER WROTE MEIN KEMPF IN THE SAME WAY AMERICAN POLITICS HAS WRITTEN ITSELF.

A LOT OF PEOPLE WANT TO SEE AMERICA GO DOWN. GEORGE BUSH AND HIS ADMINISTRATION INCLUDING HIS PRESS SECRETARIES WHO GET OUT THERE EVERY DAY AND LIE HAVE DONE JUST THAT.

AMERICA DOESN'T LIKE LIARS!

This "story" is all about the money, and the anti-GOP partisanship of the media.

Posted by: Bruce | November 21, 2007 9:44 AM

I would submit to you Bruce the propaganda tool, that the story is about a culture of corruption within the Bush administration. I also find it amazing and disturbing that the John D's of the world are so happy to be lied to by their leaders. Seems like it's easier to get screwed over by the Bush crime family than it is to admit you dead-enders supported a couple of dirt-bags.

Bush/Cheney.
Impeach/Imprison.

Impeachment "is a conviction of sorts?"

BS.

That's like saying that an indictment is the same as an actual conviction.

I know I'm using big words. Perhaps Santy will bring John D a dictionary this holiday so he can figure out what I'm saying. Or maybe he can just ask his teacher.

John D, Clinton was impeached, but that is actually not a conviction of any sort. If he'd been convicted, he wouldn't have served the balance of his term.

Isn't it amazing how many of Bush's former staffer quit and then criticize his administration? There was the terror guy Clarke, treasury secretary O'Neil, Colin Powell, Brownie, CIA head Tenant, and now McClellan. I may have missed a few, but that seems like a lot of disgruntled former employees, doesn't it? Of course they're all liars just out to promote their books, right John? Bush sure has hired a lot of liars...

Presidential Candidate: Well, they’re serious allegations, but we don’t know yet whether they’re true. Scott’s not saying this under oath. It’s not being denied under oath. And I have a feeling that before it’s all finished through the wash, that’s what’s going to happen.

But these are serious allegations. They deserve to be thoroughly examined, investigated, and the truth brought to the American people.

REPORTER: Do you think the American people deserve a statement from the president in this regard, personally?

Presidential Candidate: Oh, I think he will have to respond to it, because the closeness and the fact that Scott McClellan was one of his most trusted aides and in the position of press secretary.

Well, John D. Jerry, Bruce and others. Which commie pinko lefty Presidential Candidate feels the President has a problem?

None other than Mike Huckabee yesterday on Hardball. Appears that even reasonable Republicans CAN be offended by this administration.

LW Smith:

Why wasn't Armitage charged in the Plame scandal? Because he TOLD THE TRUTH. He didn't lie under oath the way Scooter did.

The head of the CIA says she was covert. You can stick your tiny head in the sand all you want, but how on earth can you even think for a second that you would know more than the CIA about whether she was covert.

Hit this link, if you dare.

Plame was ‘covert’ agent at time of name leak

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18924679/

Yes Vanett, Bill Clinton was acquitted. But his actions through mis-truths and lying to a Grand Jury brought on the impeachment and being disbarred. He brought disgrace on the office of President of the United States. When Democratic Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia, the Dean of the U.S. Senate, was asked if he thought Clinton had gotten away it by his acquittal, Byrd answered no. He got impeached and it is not every day that an elected official gets impeached. Bill Clinton will go down in history as one of two U.S. Presidents to be officially impeached.

The Republican Party has become a criminal interprize and listening to the deadender GOoPer 24%ers on here defend their heroes (Bush/Cheney) crimes against our country only reinforces my thoughts on that.

Take back your country, vote for anyone who isn't a Republican in 08:
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e133/Devoir26/?action=view¤t=y1696_450.jpg

Yes Vanett, Bill Clinton was acquitted. But he was formally impeached for telling mis-truths and lying to a Federal Grand Jury. He brought disgrace on the office of President of the United States. When Democratic Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia, the Dean of the US Senate, was asked if Clinton had gotten away with it by the acquittal, Byrd answered no. Byrd stated that Clinton did get impeached and that does not happen everyday. In fact only two U.S. Presidents have been formally impeached, Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton. And the history of Bill Clinton's presidency will always be scarred by the impeached.

"It was a total travesty and misuse of power."

Yes, LW Smith, exposing a COVERT CIA agent to retaliate against her husband for telling the truth certainly WAS a misuse of power.

The head of the CIA confirmed that Plame was covert.

The CIA called for an investagtion of the leak beause she was covert.

US Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald (a Republican) said Plame was covert.

But hey, none of that matters on the far right, does it? Just stick your fingers in your ears and hum.

It is useless arguing with people who still insist that Plame was not covert and Fitzgerald was on a witch hunt. Bush and Cheney could pull up to their house and shoot their dog and they would claim the dog deserved it because they were a terrorist. It is not about understanding reality it is about being right. They are cheering for their team no matter how much they might suck.

Don't you know this is all Hillary Clinton's fault because her husband lied about getting a BJ? That's the logic we are dealing with in this Bush, Cheney, Rove & Scooter defenders gang.

ps. Armitage knew about Plame because Scooter asked for a memo drawn up about her. Armitage is still an idiot but at least he told the Special Counsel the truth. The only reason the rest of them haven't been charged is because the are ALL still lying.

And the history of Bill Clinton's presidency will always be scarred by the impeached.

Posted by: Depot Jim | November 21, 2007 1:58 PM

BILL CLINTON IS NOT THE PRESIDENT ANYMORE!!!!!

Get over it, Wingnuts.

Committing TREASON is a hell of alot more serious of a crime than getting a BJ is you idiots!

Just because the head of the CIA says Plame was covert, that doesn't make it true.

What it really means is that the CIA hates America because it won't lie to protect the president.

Remember, when Clinton committed perjury it was a major crime.

But when Scooter did it we changed our minds and suddenly perjury was just a technical charge of no importance.

That's because Libby is a Republican, which makes it ok.

Don't you people get it?

Bruce,
Thanks to your post, we know everything we need to know about Osnos and his wife.
Now, can you give us a righties thoughts about of McClellan ?

Loyal Republican?
Party dogmatist?
Faithful adjutant?
Articulator in Chief?
or
Turncoat?
Party traitor?
Bush Derangement Syndrome sufferer?
Money grubber?
Liar?

Clinton was impeached, which is a conviction of sorts.

Posted by: John D | November 21, 2007 12:23 PM

Man you are the dumbest and the worst journalist ever Johnny D. Do you even know how to use a dictionary?

Posted by: janet | November 21, 2007 12:42 PM

Please don't even refer to this HVAC reject as a journalist. A retard maybe, but journalist no!

John D, the defender of rotten apples, failed presidents and Kool-Aid addicts everywhere!

To John E. I guess the truth hurts. Why don't you open your mind to facts and put your hatred and bias away. I am not a fan of George Bush and believe that we need a change of leadership in 2008. But I am afraid that the Left Wing Crazies of the Democratic Part will scare the Independent and Moderate voters and reelect the Republicans to the White House.

Dumb Dumnb Janet, by the way did you notice the post I made that indicated the teacher salaries ONLY included monetary compensation and DID NOT include things such as health benefits?

Also, Janet and the rest of the Far Left loons, this is what impeachment is:
An official who is impeached faces a second legislative vote (whether by the same body or another), which determines conviction, or failure to convict, on the charges embodied by the impeachment. Most constitutions require a supermajority to convict.

Clinton was FOUND guilty of perjury and obstruction of justice, but the Senate elected not to remove him from office, which would be a conviction.

Also, I had said "conviction of sorts." And, as noted, Clinton was disbarred for five years based on illegal action, in which disbarment also is a conviction of sorts by lawyers upon their own.

John D - I'll take everything that Clinton did over everything the Bushies have done. There is nothing I wouldn't give to have our brave men and women of the armed forces home with their families rather than in cold garves for the holidays. If it can ever be proven that Bush/Cheney approved water boarding they should be tried as war criminals. The US tried and convicted officers of the Imperial Army of Japan after WWII of just that offense. Bush and Cheney have the blood of thousands of dead service personnel and tens of thousands of dead Iraqie citizens on their hands.

Unbelievable!
Who outed Plame? Was it a crime to out Plame? Did Fitzgerald know who outed Plame before he began his "investigation"? Was anyone ever charged with outing Plame?

I guess I'm an idiot for arguing with you idiots ... but this is clearly nothing more than a political vendeta, and not at all about "outing Plame" because as you can see, no one was ever charged for outing her ... why? because there was no crime to investigate in the first place!

For the record 2 of 4 articles of Impeachment were approved by the House of Representatives but both lost on votes after the Senate trial. Clinton was never impeached. John D do you and all the other Bushies have little alters to Kenneth Starr and Linda Tripp in your homes? You remember that big waste of tax payer's money don't you? Starr's the one that Gingrich et al set loose on the "Whitewater Affair". Then when that didn't go the way they wanted they set him on any wild goose chase they could think of. Linda Tripp was the "friend" of Monica's the provided the recordings that tripped up the President. What a waste of time, energy and money that all was.

no one was ever charged for outing her ... why? because there was no crime to investigate in the first place!

Posted by: K W Smith | November 21, 2007 3:00 PM

Maybe you should reread Fitzgerald's comments. Sand in the face of the umpire, etc. Ring a bell? He couldn't get to the absolute truth because at every turn Scooter Libby was lying. Why was Scooter lying if nothing improper was done?

I guess I'm an idiot for arguing with you idiots ... but this is clearly nothing more than a political vendeta, and not at all about "outing Plame" because as you can see, no one was ever charged for outing her ... why? because there was no crime to investigate in the first place!

Posted by: K W Smith | November 21, 2007 3:00 PM

K Dubya,
No one was ever charged for outing Plame because it was covered up, Scooter lied in court because he had something to lie about, THE TRUTH and he knew if he lied W would commute his sentence and eventually pardon him.

THE HEAD OF THE CIA SAID VALRIE PLAME WAS AN UNDERCOVER NOC, I'll believe him over Rush Gasbag anyday of the week.

To John E. I guess the truth hurts. Why don't you open your mind to facts and put your hatred and bias away. I am not a fan of George Bush and believe that we need a change of leadership in 2008. But I am afraid that the Left Wing Crazies of the Democratic Part will scare the Independent and Moderate voters and reelect the Republicans to the White House.

Posted by: Depot Jim | November 21, 2007 2:26 PM

Desperate Jim,
Is that the best you've got? that you think everyone is going to vote Republican in 08 anyway?

You deadender 24%ers are a real piece of work.

but this is clearly nothing more than a political vendeta, and not at all about "outing Plame" because as you can see, no one was ever charged for outing her ...
Posted by: K W Smith | November 21, 2007 3:00 PM

I'm not sure anything is clear to you. Talk about vandeta, how about the vandeta to out Plame because of her husbands stand on the war. Not too clear to you? If there is a murder and no one is charged with it, does that mean murder isn't a crime?
and political? did Libby get a get out of jail free card from Bush or not.

"Clinton was FOUND guilty of perjury and obstruction of justice, but the Senate elected not to remove him from office, which would be a conviction"

No, John D, that is simply wrong.
Article 2 section 4

Section 4. The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.

IMPEACHMENT - (1) The process of calling something into question, as in "impeaching the testimony of a witness." (2) The constitutional process whereby the House of Representatives may "impeach" (accuse of misconduct) high officers of the federal government for trial in the Senate.

Impeachment is the filing of an accusation, not a finding of guilt.

Bill Clinton was "found guilty" at no point in the impeachment process.

LOL Jim and John!! OMG!
Fitzgerald knew before he began his investigation Richard Armitage outed Plame! Cover up? The only thing covered up was the real motivation for this sham "investigation".
There is absolutely no doubt Armitage outed Plame, and his name is almost never brought up and he was never under "investigation nor was he charged... because Fitzgerald, the media and people like you are only interested in getting some dirt on Bush and those close to him. Truth never matters to you people.

Can you imagine if the republicans were this deceitful and dishonest? They could have held a two year investigation into who knew Bill Clinton was lying, and when did they know it ... and was there a conspiracy. Perhaps if the republicans were as hateful and vindictive, Hillary would have been charged with perjury and coverup of Bill's lies. It would have been more truthful than convicting Libby over an investigation that was a sham and a lie from the start.

More info on publisher Peter Osnos that the DNC Swamp tries to hide:

1) the publishing house doing McClellan's book is tied to George Soros, convicted financier and sugar daddy to all things left.
2) Susan Osnos, Peter's wife, is also among the relative handful of people who are big contributors to the Dem Party, having given $2,000 to John Kerry in 2004.
3) Peter Osnos was personally responsible for publishing Barack Obama's first book. See http://www.tcf.org/list.asp?type=NC&pubid=1425
for a fascinating look at how a politically connected publisher operates. Osnos has also published books by Democrats Bill Clinton and Wesley Clark.

By leaving out these well-known and easily found facts, the DNC Swamp is the one trying to mislead the public.

Posted by: Bruce | November 21, 2007 10:07 AM
___________________________

Yawn.

Alot of pardons will be done in the case of CIA leak ...

2008 OutLook
1. Pardon VP Dick Cheney
2. Pardon Karl Rove
3. Pardon chief of staff ?
4. Others

Looks like Pres. Bush is pulling another Ford ...

"Richard Nixon had not been formally charged with any crime at the time of Ford's pardon."

Fitzgerald said there was more to this story that he couldn't uncover because Scooter lied.

That doesn't mean there wasn't any other crime. It means there wasn't enough evidence to prosecute Libby on other charges.

Perjury itself IS a crime. After all, remember what you Republicans did to Clinton.

Can you imagine if the republicans were this deceitful and dishonest? They could have held a two year investigation into who knew Bill Clinton was lying, and when did they know it ... and was there a conspiracy. Perhaps if the republicans were as hateful and vindictive, Hillary would have been charged with perjury and coverup of Bill's lies. It would have been more truthful than convicting Libby over an investigation that was a sham and a lie from the start.

Posted by: K W Smith | November 21, 2007 3:36 PM

K W Hair on Fire,

"Perhaps if the Republicans were hateful and vindictive"?...are you on drugs or are you just stupid in general?

I can only imagine the outrage from the Wingnuts like K W if this whole CIA agent outing had happened under a Democratic administration afterall they made a BJ seem like it was a life and death matter of National Security for the last Democratic President and that's why I don't believe any of the smoke their blowing about how evil Hillary is now, Wingnuts like KW are trained monkeys and they've been trained to yap everytime they hear the name Clinton.

KW Smith, what do you mean IF Republicans were dishonest?

They lied about the intelligence to justify invading Iraq. They only told Congress half the story, and left out the half that said their sources for such information were liars too.

The energy dept. had already concluded that the aluminum tubes were not for centrifuges.

The Germans had already concluded that "Curvebal" was a liar, yet his claims of mobile chemical weapons labs were presented as concrete fact.

The Bush administration lied about the true cost of the prescription drug bill until after it passed Congress.

Scooter was convicted of LYING.

Yes Vanett, Bill Clinton was acquitted. But his actions through mis-truths and lying to a Grand Jury brought on the impeachment and being disbarred. He brought disgrace on the office of President of the United States.
Posted by: Depot Jim | November 21, 2007 1:58 PM

Oh PULLLEEZE! And how many people DIED for this grand "disgrace"? 100,000? 10,000? 10? What,,,not even 1? Clinton's an idiot (when it comes to things below the buckle), but we didn't need to become the laughing stock of the world over a round of afternoon delight. Send in a squad of naked dancing girls to W's office if it will stop the killing of our kids.

"Can you imagine if the republicans were this deceitful and dishonest?"

Yeah, that's really stretching the old imagination, KW. Can you imagine Republicans starting a lobbyist payola scheme called the K-Street project? Can you imagine Republicans like Bob Ney being convicted for taking bribes from a guy named Abramoff? Can you imagine Republican Duke Cunningham being convicted for taking bribes from a defense contractor? Can you imagine Conrad Burn, John Doolittle, Tom DeLay, Kyle Foggo (CIA), and Ted Stevens under investigation for bribery and corruption?

I can't imagine where anybody would get the idea that the Republicans are actually less corrupt than the Democrats.

By leaving out these well-known and easily found facts, the DNC Swamp is the one trying to mislead the public.

Posted by: Bruce | November 21, 2007 10:07 AM

Get real Bruce. You defend the indefensible!!!

Think Patrick Henry or Nathan Hale.
Think the current Federal Administration set-up. Presidential and Congressional. What happened between then and now?

Hhhmmm....

Wonder if Rush will talk about this on his radio show? Maybe he'll just talk about Thanksgiving as a celebration of capitalism; again.

DD, can you tell me how many people died when Clinton bombed Bosnia and Kosovo for 46 straight days? Or how many Iraqis died when Clinton bombed that country all the times he did, including nearly a week's worth of bombing in 1998?
Didn't Clinton say we had to go into Bosnia and Kosovo to stop the genocide, which he said took the lives of over 100,000 people, when in reality it was less than 20,000?

From lil' Johnny D(eluded),

"But since you brought up Dear Clinton, does the so-called "outing" of Valerie Plame equal Whitewater? No. Castle Grande? No. White House Travel Office? No. White House coffee klatches? No..."

The scariest thing is, I think he's serious. "Whitewater," a non-scandal that had nothing to do with anything and of which the Clintons were exhonerated, is the equivalent of the treasonous outing of a CIA Agent to discredit the Bush Administration's factually-challenged basis for war? "Fair game," they said. Treason, an impartial observer would say.

This is why Republicans have proven themselves unfit to lead a school board in the last 15 years. $140 million to investigate Whitewater and Travelgate, with the effect of nailing not one high-ranking official, and not even coming close to Clinton.

$3 million allocated by the next GOP Congress to investigate the largest security breakdown in American history, with another $8 million eventually cajoled out of them.

So, let me get this straight. If one follows the money, then investigating President Clinton on ludicrous and utterly frivolous charges was no less than 13 times MORE important than getting to the bottom of what happened on 9/11.

Shameful. It must really fry your craw that Clinton's approval never sunk below 50% at any point during the absurd "Monicagate" scandal, and that he left office with the highest approval rating ever, higher than Reagan's.

But Dyslin proudly leads the 28% brigade right into the sewer.

Prepare to be swept again in the 2008 elections, necocon dead-enders.

Gee, what a surprise, Bush "mislead" him?

Really hard to believe of such an upstanding citizen as Bush.

Colbert gravel kucinich paul nader perot carter [conyers?rangel?] united for truth elicit fear smear blacklist.

The people know too much,
democracy rising democracy now.
Rage against the machine.

Honesty compassion intelligence guts.

No more extortion blackmail bribery division.
Divided we fall.

When the Speaker said that this congress would not be concerned with impeachment, I was surprised! Not because of what she said, but because she said it so soon. First, not all the evidence was in because the administration was and is still thumbing it's nose at congress and withholding subpoenaed documents.

Because of the secretive nature of this administration, especially that of the real president (Dick Cheney), and that of it's figure head George Bush, this alone should warrant at least an investigation into the possibility of bringing Articles of Impeachment against the Bush Administration:

1. This administration has re-classified previously released documents that were in the National Archives, so that they could be kept hidden (or changed) from public view.

2. This administration has admitted that it has illegally wiretapped and spied on citizens without court order or authorization from congress (the supposed representative body of our three branch government).

3. Evidence has shown that intelligence data was manipulated by this administration to favor an invasion of Iraq, with the aiding and abetting of military intelligence.

4. The fact that this administration "Outed" a CIA operative, by itself, warrants Articles of Impeachment for HIGH CRIMES (not misdemeanors as in Clinton's case).

5. The International Red Cross has stated that what is being done in the CIA’s “Black Sites violates the Geneva Convention and is in fact torture.

6. The JAG officers who inspected GITMO indicated that the prisoners were being mistreated, and violated their constitutional rights.

7. The FBI who inspected GITMO and other sites indicated that what was going on did go against American ideals, the Constitution, and was illegal.

8. Alberto Gonzales politicized the DOJ, and was complicit in the firing of federal prosecutors who the administration felt would not follow their policies about holding, torturing, and prosecuting detainees, its spying of U.S. citizens. His stone walling congress and stating “I don’t remember,” is indicative of the secretive nature of this administration. Libby, Rove, Bush, and Cheney have all thumbed their noses at congress, and violated the checks-and-balances of our three branch government. If the Executive branch and military are not answerable to the American people, then who are they answerable to? Why has congress given away so much power to the Executive branch?

WHAT MORE DOES CONGRESS NEED?

I believe Joe Biden stated that criminal charges could be brought against the administration later. If so, why doesn't this warrant an investigation into the requirements necessary for the drawing up of Articles of Impeachment?

It is interesting to note how quickly the Republican controlled congress acted to bring up charges of Impeachment against Bill Clinton, knowing that they still would not have enough votes for impeachment. Yet this Democratic congress will not ruffle a single Republican feather! On Democracy now, John Conyers stated that although he had sufficient evidence to bring up Articles of Impeachment, he would not do so because his calculator showed he would not get enough votes.

Which is worse, lying about sex and sexual harassment of an employee, or lying and misleading Congress, the American public, the U.N. and the World about the reasons for invading Iraq by deliberately manipulating intelligence data?

REF:

1. A Reporter at Large-"The Black Sites": A rare look inside the C.I.A.’s secret Interrogation program. By Jane Mayer August 13, 2007 New Yorker

2. “Rorschach and Awe”: America's coercive interrogation methods were reverse-engineered by two C.I.A. psychologists who had spent their careers training U.S. soldiers to endure Communist-style torture techniques. The spread of these tactics was fueled by a myth about a critical "black site" operation. By Katherine Eban VF.COM EXCLUSIVE July 17, 2007

3. “Baghdad year zero”: Pillaging Iraq in pursuit of a neocon utopia
By: Naomi Klein September 2004 Harpers

4. "Anatomy Of Deceit" by Marcy Wheeler

5. "Presidential Secrecy and the Law" by Robert M. Pallitto and William G. Weaver

6. “Against Rendition” From the May 16, 2005 issue: Why the CIA shouldn't Outsource interrogations to countries that torture by Reuel Marc Gerecht