W. Post piece on Obama's Muslim ties takes fire

Frank James is to facts what Joseph Goebbels was to facts.

That being said, it's pretty clear that Barack (no middle name we're allowed to say) Obama is not now a Muslim.

And by the way, thanks for speaking down to all of your readers like they're a bunch of third graders. I'm sure they appreciate it.

And the part about "partisan bloggers." Hilarious.

It's exactly what you are.

Actually, calling them rumors gives them too much credence, I would expect this kind of garbage from Fox Noise Channel, Rush Limpone or Drudge but not the WaPo. It would be more accurate to call them blatant lies, yet the Washington Post has decided to give them a national platform. The only thing missing from this story is the siren at the top of the page.

It's funny that the so-called "liberal media" that the Wingnuts are always crying about didn't have much to say about this story about Giuliani that unlike the RUMORS about Obama are filled with FACTS about Giuliani.

Giuliani Billed Obscure Agencies For Trips

By: Ben Smith
Nov 28, 2007 02:47 PM EST
Updated: November 29, 2007 11:09 AM EST


As New York mayor, Rudy Giuliani billed obscure city agencies for tens of thousands of dollars in security expenses amassed during the time when he was beginning an extramarital relationship with future wife Judith Nathan in the Hamptons, according to previously undisclosed government records.

Full Story here:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1107/7073.html

Frank-

I hear where you are coming from but disagree ever so slightly. The headline (and my understanding is that headlines are NOT written by the author) is misleading.

Furthermore maybe it is time for the MSM to start calling lies what they are: lies. If something is patently false, it is a lie. Would it kill you to say it? How is that unethical? If the headline read:

Foes lie about Obama's faith.

There would be no confusion, it would be clear.

No, Obama is not a Muslim. And he is not part of a nefarious global caliphate scheme to undermine the US from the inside.
Such talk is stupid and should be condemned.
But I do have a question:
Obama has said that his experience growing up in Indonesia (or at least living there for a while as a child) will give him credibility in the Muslim world. However, as someone who was educated in part in Indonesian schools, and as someone who spent significant time in a Muslim country, but then rejected Islam in favor of Christianity, would not Muslims view Obama as actually worse than someone who grew up in the West and was never really exposed to "the truth," as a Muslim sees it? My experience with Muslims, limited as it has been, informs me that skin color is much less important in the Muslim world than in the West. What matters to the Muslims I have met is faith, above all else. They reject black Christians just as readily as they reject white Christians or Christians of any other skin color or ethnicity.

I don't want a Moslin for president.DON'T VOTE FOR O'BAMA

I'm sorry, Frank James. In this case, there are no excuses.

You can say in simple terms: "Obama has been a Christian..or these rumors are not true" or world "false" in the 1st or 2nd paragraph. Perry didn't. You and Perry are both journalists, but that doesn't prevent you from writing clear and concise text.

As a writer myself, Perry's piece left me confused. In this country's current climate of 'flavored' news, this scavenger hunt in search of a firm denial statement to the Muslim rumors left me feeling dubious as to his motives. Common sense should not told him and his editors the outcome of not being clear with such a delicate issue.

The noise over this is a terrible revelation of how deeply into America's psyche hatred of Muslims has sunk.

It's actually rather absurd. What on earth could it matter one way or the other?

There are more than a billion Muslims in the world. Individuals come in every variety and type you can possibly imagine, just like the rest of the human race.

I remember as a young man growing up in Chicago some religious-right types circulating quarters that had a cardinal's hat on George Washington inserted with red finger-nail polish.

Nothing seems to have changed in nearly fifty years except the name of the target religion.

What a sad reflection on a country with such large boasts about freedom and human rights.

I really think the internet is a blessing and a curse. A blessing because it is easy to find information and to communicate with others rapidly. A curse because people can use it as a platform to perpetuate the worst kind of viciousness (the woman who recently harrassed a young girl until she committed suicide).

This Obama ties to Islam nonsense is so out of whack that it boggles the imagination why people are still trying to dig up something that is not there. Maybe this was the dirty little secret that Hillary/Bill's campaign hinted at a few weeks ago. Neverthless, the easiest way to end a rumor is to kill it and let it die by not spreading it.

Yet again, the Washington Post lowers the bar. Just because someone makes a baseless, careless, wild accusations is not news.

If I wrote a story about a "rumor" that Rudy was caught on Dateline by Chris Hanson, is that news?

Mr. James writes that Mr. Obama "is a Christian." What is his source for that statement? Here's what Obama's official biography says: "His wife, Michelle, and his two daughters, Malia, 9, and Sasha, 6...attend Trinity United Church of Christ." NOTE, IT DOES NOT say Obama attends a Christian Church and it, most pointedly, does not say he's a Christian. So again, what is the source of the statement that Obama is a Christian if it's not in his official biography? Why do you think that statement is so carefully worded and does not mention him? Please flesh this out; this country cannot take another Muslim surprise.

Media Matters seems to disagree with you views on this story.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200711290005?f=h_latest

Spot on John Chuckman.

You're too easy on the WP article. First, there was nothing newsworthy in the article. Why was it on page 1? The rumors and innuendoes about OBama's Muslim ties had been thoroughly investigated and debunked months ago. The article paints a veneer of credibility on a story that just isn't so. So, why print it?

Stasia,

What other religion worships Christ?

Frank James, it may be a good idea that you tell us what knowledge the Washington Post wants to impact on the readers by publishing what has been thoroughly disproved as non-starter. Christianity does not teach that children of Moslem parents cannot be baptized to become Christians. There is no pre-requisite of being a Christian except to accept Jesus as Savior and be baptized with Holy Water.

From the foregoing, those who are propagating the falsehood that Obama is a Moslem have insidious agenda that is not far from racism.
It is bizarre that Washington Post is providing platform for extremists in our midst to be preaching hate and falsehood.

Why do you think that statement is so carefully worded and does not mention him? Please flesh this out; this country cannot take another Muslim surprise.

Posted by: Stasia | November 29, 2007 3:53 PM

"Stasia"?...Nice post name RNC Bruce,

Muslim surprise? get your head out of your arse and quit lying you Wingnut tool.

Does the article ever say that the rumors are false?

No.

Does it ever say that Obama is not a Muslim?

No.

How's this for a headline: All Republicans thought to be terrorists.

Anyone have a problem with that? I mean, it's just a rumor, and I'm reporting it. Right?

I'm surprised to see this crap still up on the web page. I guess Frank James doesn't get embarrassed too easily.

"accuse the Democratic presidential candidate of being a Muslim", What!!!
Now being a Muslim is a crime. Shame on you. Sometimes I feel you deserve having an stupid enemy like Bin Laden. You both deserve each other.

Barack "HUSSEIN" Obama's father was a Muslim? Oh, that's news to all of us...we all thought with a name like that he was an Irish Catholic.
He doesn't own a dog either...what does that tell you? Hmmmmm?

Paulo

We didn't ask any one to use the word "liar" just the word "false".

If you're reading this drivel, pleeeeease recognize this man for the silly foolish hack that he is. Truthful information about Senator Obama is available from many reputable sources. (You can start with his website: www.barackobama.com). You don't have to like the man but at least make informed decisions!

So "John E," a challenge. How about YOU finding some statement by Obama or evidence that he is a Christian. Personally, I don't care; it's Hillary's people surreptiously raising the issue with their cohorts in the media. But let's have Obama come forth and flatly state that he is a Christian and tell us when he became one because none of his biographies clarify this matter. And if I were a "Bruce," whoever that is, I suspect he'd be a different color and probably gender as well.

Interesting that James would say the left wing bloggers are taking the Washigton Post for reporting the truth. Frank, you of all people should know that the Left cannot handle the truth and does not like the truth. The truth is a foreign substance to Lefty Losers.

"Even during the campaign season when we do fact-checks on political ads, we don't say that someone has lied. We say the facts don't support the claim."

Maybe you should. If something's false, you have the responsibility to inform your readers (and viewers) of that fact. It's insulting that you can tell me a fact completely contradictory to another statement, but at the same time attempt to say that you're too moral/good to say it's a lie. That's not helping our country, that's not fulfilling your journalistic obligations.

If I was the WaPo or Chicago Tribune, and I wrote a story that said "there are rumors that England doesn't exist" then I have created a true statement. You suggest that I (as a journalist) should say "There are rumors England does not exist, I have been to England, so it does not appear that the facts support the claim."
Maybe you should start saying, "I have been to England, it exists."

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0716/p01s01-uspo.html

Feel better Stasia?

Or does he have to publically eat a ham sandwich while desacrating the Koran to ease your fears?

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but you are ignoring the context of this fight. Fred Hiatt's Washington Post has been at war with liberals over the war and other issues for years now, and this article can easily be taken as a gratuitous swipe at Obama. This issue came up months ago and has been dealt with. The WaPo's article was not newsworthy, and certainly not front page material, especially with the misleading headline they used.

But you were making some good arguments. Right up until you cited John McCain's "dark-skinned baby." Can you cite one single Democratic politician, liberal organization or publication that spread that horrible rumor?

I doubt it very much. Please do not cite Republican smears against other Republicans as the "she said" in your "he said/she said" argument.

And just for giggles, can you name a single Democratic smear of any Republican in recent years that was not borne out by the facts?

Seriously, can you?

Stasia, the United Church of Christ is a Christian church. It was formed in the 1950's from the Congregational and Evangelical and Reformed churches, two mainline Protestant denominations.

Btw, congrats on nailing the Hoekstra-spoonfed Joe Klein's lying ass with your correction today.

NOT FOR PUBLICATION (obviously).

So "John E," a challenge. How about YOU finding some statement by Obama or evidence that he is a Christian. Personally, I don't care; it's Hillary's people surreptiously raising the issue with their cohorts in the media. But let's have Obama come forth and flatly state that he is a Christian and tell us when he became one because none of his biographies clarify this matter. And if I were a "Bruce," whoever that is, I suspect he'd be a different color and probably gender as well.

Posted by: Stasia | November 29, 2007 6:02 PM

Go look on Obama's web-site, it will even tell you what CHRISTIAN Church he attends, you lying racist piece of crap.

This is nothing more than the circling of the mass media wagons to defend a pathetically obnoxious headline by a "reputable" newspaper that should have only published this story if it could demonstrate that the "rumors" were true or revealed who are the devious minds behind keeping these lies in circulation. Otherwise, it challenges logic to understand how the editors of the Washington Post printed such a story, let alone made it page one "news".

Senator Obama is not a Muslim, nor has he ever been a Muslim. His father and grandfather were not even practicing Muslims. They both had drinking problems, especially the grandfather and Muslims to not drink alcohol. For the Washington Post to repeat this crap is outlandish. Shame on them.

I see that "Stasia" is not only trying to continue these already debunked smear charges against Senator Obama, he/she/it is also trying to blame them on Senator Clinton.

Mission Accomplished, you Republic Party tool!

P S - I can already hear this clowns answer, "he's" going to claim to be a "she" and then this stooge will claim to be a minority...as if that's a valid excuse for being a hateful racist hack.

This is a perfect example of why I am so happy that the Republican Party is going down the crapper, which is where they should have been a very long time ago.

"Attending" a church does not make you a member any more than attending a Bulls game makes you a member of the team.
And be careful whom you call racist, John E. You have no knowledge of whom you are insulting. The rest of your vulgar comment tells us all we need to know about you.

Dickie Durbin is controlling posts on the Swamp --he doesn't want nothin stoppin his Senator Obama to be President. The Swamp has taken 2 of my posts off because I offended Dickie and Barry.
This comes at time when Tim Novak ran a story today saying Obama helped exBoss Allison Davis get $1 million from an Obama charity which Obama didn't recuse himself from voting to give the mill to Davis.
Starting to stink in Chicago but, drivebys you protect your own Dickie told yopu too. Jerry White, Springfield, IL

And we wonder why the washington post and the rest of the msm is hemorrhaging in readership. To write a story about a rumor furthermore a rumor that was debunked by cnn months ago shows washpo is no more interested in truth than the gop. They care about the "narrative" and painting obama as the candidate who is inexperienced and too foreign for the boondocks of middle America.

This is yet more evidence of the decline of actual journalism in our press industry, reminiscent of the way that Ted Koppel defended the media's reproting on teh Swift Boat ads in 2004.

The fact that somebody spreads false rumors -- and yes, Mr. James, an intentionally false rumor is a "lie" -- is not news unless outlets such as the Post and Sun make it so. Repeating a lie gives it weight, makes it persistent, makes it turn up in Google.

Is it too much to expect the national and local media to do more than repeat internet rumors, report fund raising totals, and embed candidate ads in their stories? Based on the recent track record, I guess the answer would unfortunately be, "Yes, that's far more than we can expect."

Stasia-

What difference would it make if a Presidential candidate only "attends" a church rather than being a "member" of it? Obama has explained his faith, why do you refuse to accept it.

The rumors and innuendoes about OBama's Muslim ties had been thoroughly investigated and debunked months ago.
Posted by: Henry Newton | November 29, 2007 4:07 PM

Would his brother Roy, who is a practicing Muslim constitute a "tie" Mr. Newton ?

Who cares what religion someone is? THe main thing that concerns me is Obama is corrupt as heck and is trying to bring Cook County sleaze politics to the Dem Primary. I cant believe that some people are just giving him a pass on all his ethical violations and using his PAC to buy support from the ealry primary states.

It's more than the blogs that are ablaze - how about this quote today from the Columbia Journalism Review:

"In The Washington Post this morning, reporter Perry Bacon Jr. wrote what may be the single worst campaign ‘08 piece to appear in any American newspaper so far this election cycle."

http://www.cjr.org/campaign_desk/post_75.php

to become a muslim one must confess the shahid or shahada{the oath] - generaly done about age three or four - obama did this and repeated everytime he prayed at the mosque as a child and every day at school -he will for ever be a muslim -only if he appears before a sharia court [a court of imams ] and denounces the religion will he become a non muslim -the muslim who killed the girl at the jewish center in seattle had been baptised shortly before - yes obama is a sunni muslim and remains so -if he did denoune the religion the court will declare him insane or an apostate and suject to death - he has no choise he must lie about his muslim past- his middle name is taken from the prophet -in islam you are allowed to lie

Obama could be the bridge between the western world and the intolerant muslim world. Who knows? He could really be a devout Christian or an apostate who'd decide to be a Muslim again - maybe during or after the White House - Who knows? THE FACT IS THE MUSLIM WORLD HATES US. Who's to say he doesn't have a hidden agenda? One only has to enter the words "Obama" and "Muslim" together to search/read pages and pages on the internet about his muslim background or connection. These writers can't all be wrong and can't all be Obama haters, right? They do the same to Hillary Rodham Clinton - write about the things they hate about her or her ties to her husband. I also don't see the anger from many people when Obama is mentioned as Barack Hussein Obama by many bloggers. It's a whole other topic each time that happens. Why? It is his middle name. If you want him to be president, start getting used to the Hussein. Many Americans don't even know his middle name. My point is if you really are so fascinated by this guy who is a great speaker; do your research and not blast anyone so quickly for not writing desirable or favorable stories/comments about him.

People are missing the point. It's not up to Obama. You CAN'T opt out of Islam like you can from Christianity.

Barack Obama was born a Muslim and spent his early childhood in a Muslim household. If he were to be declared by conservative mullahs to be an apostate (one who has forsaken Islam), he could not meet Nuri al-Maliki, Hamid Karzai, Pervez Musharraf, King Abdullah, Abu Marzen or any other Muslim leader. If they shook hands with an apostate, they would bring down a fatwa on their own heads.

But would he be declared an apostate? Koranic scholars differ.

This blogpost is balanced and has no anti-Obama agenda.

http://robertwoodrow.com/2008/02/12/obama-the-muslim-thing-revisited-2/

I don't care what Religion he is. I don't care what color he is, but I am worried about his connections. Obama, Rezko, Mahdi Auchi, Al Samarrae, Rev Wright, William Ayers, Rashid Khailid, Raila Odinga, Obonga Obama, Khaleel Ahmed and Zubair Ahmed.