Warren Buffett: Tax 'the hides of guys like me'

Warren Buffett: Tax 'the hides of guys like me'

Any moment now all of the angry old rich Republican white guys (Terry) who are benefiting from W.'s tax cuts for the rich are going to come on here and start "swiftboating" Warren Buffet.

5...4..3..2..1.DING!

Typical liberal elitist scum. Doesn't he realize America would be greater if everyone acquired their wealth like Paris Hilton, by pure luck of being born Paris Hilton, than if they did offensive things like working hard, being resourceful, being ingenious, and being creative and innovative?

Warren, the Republican conservatives wouldn't dream of taxing you guys. Taxes are for us peeyons struggling to make ends meet. You guys keep giving handouts at Xmas and let some of that money trickle down. That's what we want to see.

How refreshing, someone who's ridiculously rich who's not a greedy S.O.B.

He's right, too. They should have their hides taxxed!

No! Don't tax rich people! They can't afford to expand their businesses (overseas) if they pay taxes at the same percentage as us paycheck-to-paycheck peons!

Seriously though, can you imagine the grief he must get at whatever country club he belongs to?

Greedy sob. Why, because they got off there butts and made something out of themselves. Stop crying and go to work.

The "Silva rule" strikes again.

The "Silva rule" states that if reporter Mark Silva headlines the political statements of somebody, but doesn't mention the person's political party, that somebody is a Democrat. And not just a Democrat, but a party activist Democrat who's one of the small number of people who've contributed megabucks to the Dem Party.

In this instance, a 10 second search of FCC records shows that Warrne Buffett and his family practically finance the Democratic Party, with mega-contributions to (among others) Obama and Clinton.

So what we have here is a Left-wing activist coming out for higher taxes. Not exactly news.

Bill Prendergast chimes in to defend hard working Paris Hilton.

Thank You Mr. Buffett, your a man that not only understands how to make money, you know how to preserve the rights of our democratic process through creating equalness for all.

If Buffett wants to ease his conscience, just take out his checkbook and write out a hum-dinger to me. He could make it out to the U.S. Treasury, but I can guarantee that I would be more responsible in spending it to help the general good. Seriously, if he feels bad, send a Brinks Truck load of dough to Washington...and watch it disappear.

Strange I thought rich individuals paid taxes too, and then used their riches to purchase consumer goods and services so you liberals could have a job in a much larger government handing out social services to illegal’s. The rich, they know nothing of the struggles of those less fortunate who’ve given nothing back but ask for everything they have.

Here is the liberal mentality, “It’s not fair I don’t have what you have. I’m offended I don’t have the money you have, the life you have, the luxuries you do. Poor me, I need to make it fair for all of us living in a social state so I’ll create ridiculous rules to limit your wealth and tax you more so I can feel better about myself and the good I’ve done. Without me taxing you I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night.”

A rich guy with a heart -- someone for republicans to despise.

Welcome!

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The new head of the ABA, Seattle attorney William H. Neukom, is a big time contributor to all things Liberal and all things Democrat."

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(Silva might have his rules, but man you time your burce searches too???)

I'm conservative, and I've never quite understood what could be considered "conservative" about allowing inherited income to be treated any differently from any other income. Death tax, indeed.

When I die, my kids will get almost none of my wealth. Why should they? I made all my money without assistance -- I expect them to do the same.

Posted by: Bruce | November 14, 2007 2:44 PM

Posted by: Lafayette | November 14, 2007 2:51 PM

Bruce comes on here with his typical, "it's the liberal media's fault", (whatever that means) and then his phony post name "Lafayette" comes on here to agree with him:

You're getting desperate, RNC Brucie and I'm loving watching the Republic Party come unhinged...

Travis,

You know it's funny. According to you, the only rich people in the US are conservative Republicans and the only poor people in the world are liberal Democrats. Ah, if it were only that simple.

Of course then you'd only start complaining when we explain the millionaires who are Democrats such as Oprah, Warren Buffett, John Edwards, John Kerry, the Kennedys and on and on.

You simply hear more taxes and assume that it's the problem of the Democrats.

One simple question for you. The Republicans have borrowed more money over the last few years than ALL previous US governments COMBINED. This is to pay for spending that they don't have the revenues to cover.

So at what point in time do the Republicans plan on paying back this GIGANTIC debt and what are they going to use to pay it back with?

Ya gotta love an honest man. No wonder he backs Obama. Warren is kool!!!

aka Travis - always sticking up for the angry old rich Republican white guys.

You gotta love Wingnut freaks like Travis because they don't know any better, he's only following the robot RNC talking points that Rush and Sean Insanity give him, but their "poor little GOPer me" bit ain't playin' in America anymore, thankyou KKKarl Rove!

Did anyone notice that Buffet has arranged to give his fortune NOT TO THE UNITED STATES BUT TO THE GATES FOUNDATION.

That's right, the man who wants to pay more taxes wants to be sure HE PAYS NO ESTATES TAXES ON HIS $40BILLION ESTATE.

How did Silva miss that item?

Travis Chapman,
Would you like to explain why a Administrative Assistant pays more income tax than Warren Buffet and other billionaires? If you think that is fare then say so. If you don't then you are probably a "liberal" or simply a human that can see a tax system that favors the rich and burdens the poor.

So at what point in time do the Republicans plan on paying back this GIGANTIC debt and what are they going to use to pay it back with?

Posted by: dogjudge | November 14, 2007 3:39 PM

Laffer Curve?

What right does any government have to take my legacy and give it to others without my approval. If I pass away a rich man, is it not my right to pass that money to my kin as I see fit. I worked for that money and my family sacrificed time together so that I could build businesses that employ hunderds of people. I donate thousands to worthy causes. Why shouldn't my family receive their full inheritance; it's their money.

"Laffer Curve"?

You mean the laughable curve?

Not provable that the idea is true, except at the extremes.

Even the current BS from the administration doesn't prove anything. The increase in tax revenues is due to corporate tax revenue increases NOT due to increases in personal tax revenue.

Try going to information about Regan's trickle down economics and how it really was simply a gift to the rich folks.

ed daniels,
You are quick. Did you also know that you are only whacked by the Estate Tax if you are lazy and don't hire an Estate Planner?

PS Buffet also told his family they are not going to receive a dime.

People can buy a TON of life insurance to protect their business and pay the government.

I'm sure that Berkshire Hathaway's considerable life insurance holdings (or the number of companies Buffett bought at a discount from families struggling to pay estate taxes) has anything to do with his stance? He's lily-white, pure as the wind-driven snow!

Warren Buffett does understand that he can pay the treasury department any amount above and beyond what he owes in taxes, right? He does understand that they'll accept it, right?

But, Warren doesn't care about himself being taxed as he wants others to be taxed. He's protected. Others are well protected. The rest of us might as well kiss off saving and instead suck on the government teat.

To GW,

Taxes are also to subsidize the lifestyles of people who don't want to work. Have you ever heard of Section 8?

Travis - In this case it isn't the rich person who knows "nothing of the struggles of those less fortunate" it is their kids. Please tell me how much Paris Hilton has learned about the struggles of those less fortunate than her? It also isn't the "less fortunate who’ve given nothing back but ask for everything they have" it is the kids of extremely wealthy people. Why don't they go out and get a job.

Ah K9 referee,
I hate to be the one to tell you this but Democrats = taxes, higher taxes, more taxes, and fees for this and fees for that. Did I mention they want to tax more and have more fees? It’s a social state of confusion that you can continue to tax people more and create a better life for all. At some point the fulcrum will tip the scales too far and there will be no one to continue to tax. Then what will you liberals do, blame the rich for not making more money for you to tax? Great idea, I think they call that socialism and it doesn’t work. Well that is, unless you consider the U.S.S.R a stellar example of Socialism. And if that’s the case I can understand to some degree, it’s not your fault right? It’s the mental disorder that overtakes individuals like you. We call it liberalism.

Ah yes, your ridiculous retort about higher spending than any other government, well that wouldn’t be because we are paying an extreme consequence for the illegal’s flooding our country, taking everything and given nothing in return, paying for social programs that encouraging more of the same attitude- demanding more or doing less in return. Followed, of course, by the liberal mindset throw more money at it, that’ll fix it, well until we can find another avenue for taxing.

Here are a couple of links, which show your information is a bit skewed. I’d suggest you provide a link showing your examples that is assuming there are examples to your non-truths:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2005/12/012304.php

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdoc.cfm?index=3521

Warren Buffet in deciding to give away his wealth avoids government programs and even "writes off" those from his taxes.
He pays millions to his accountants to lessen his tax burden while at the same time saying he is under-taxed.
If I didn't know better I might suspect he owns insurance companies that sell tax free death benefits and other companies that were sold to him at "fire sale prices" because of death taxes. Oh wait, I don't know that.

It's laughable to read some of these posts. Especially the idiot that says that this administration has borrowed more money than all others combined. Where did you get that information? Obviously Moveon.org. If you dig deeper, perhaps there is another motive to Mr. Buffet. Now I respect the hell out of the man, and no one is a better ambassador to capitalism than him. However!!! Isn't it ironic, that the man is a large investor in the insurance industry? Well people, guess how you side- step the "death tax"? Through insurance products.
And you know what...Mr. Buffett, along with everyone on this board and this country is welcome to pay more taxes.

Dogjudge! What does it matter whether tax revenues are increased through corporate taxes or personal income taxes? Government revenues are higher! And in reality, what are corporate taxes? They are taxes on profits that created through investment. Where does investment money come from? People.

Ed Daniels- Yes, Gates gave a huge chunk of his fortune to a foundation that uses capitalism to do good works. One of the reasons he did so is because he is only giving his kids a couple hundred grand- not peanuts, but nothing obscene or even close to what he would be giving them if he kept it to himself. He does so because he said he wants to give them enough so that they "can do anything, but not enough so that they can do nothing". (Not an exact quote, but pretty damn close). He also lived in the same house for forty years. Now tell me, why do Repubs not like him? Is it because he sets an example for what responsible rich people should do with their money?

well, here is another opportunity in context (sort of) to present my solution to the social security conundrum which no major candidate has decided to address in this endless campaign season.
why not make the receipt of your social security benefit voluntary ? in other words at the point at which an individual becomes eligible to receive his "retirement" social security benefit the individual could elect NOT to accept the benfit but rather to leave it in the fund and instead obtain a tax credit equivalent to the amount of his entitlement. the credit would be an immediate write down of his federal taxable income. there are literally millions of individuals who tip more than their entitlements and these same individuals are the ones for whom tax credits or deductions are most attractive. the decision could be an annual election(though I don't see the need.) and the amount spared the social security fund if even 1 million of these individuals should elect the tax credit annually would be in the vicinity of $15 billions /yr...trhereby permanantly staving off any social security shortage.
I've written to Obama 4 times on this topic but I might as well have written to Osama based on the replies I got.
maybe , I'll ask Warren Buffet what HE thinks .

Travis,

Nice try.

With both of your links, you are leaving out just ONE LITTLE item. Bush's War. Funny how the Republicans point to budgets, but don't include all of the numbers. I know. It's because they are still using Enron's accounting firms!

Stewart.

You are missing the point. All of the Republican mantra about tax cuts tells us how revenues from personal taxes will go up when you cut personal taxes. Guess what? That isn't happening. Despite all of the hedge fund folks who are just happy as clams, the upper middle class and middle class have not gotten any benefits from the wonderful Republican tax cuts. Think again.

Despite the fact that the corporations have some of the best tax attorneys they are paying taxes on RECORD profits, as in the oil companies.

If it wasn't for the corporate tax revenues being up so much, the ruse that this truly is would be more apparent.

It is real simple why an administrative assistant pays more. She does not, she only pays at a higher rate. The income for Buffett who probably draws little in salary is at the capital gains rate not ordinary income. He also only pays fica on the first $95,000 of income not the millions he earns. The AA pays on her total income because she does not earn above $95,000. She does not pay more in taxes, only a higher rate and I disagree totally when FICA is referred to as taxes, it is a disability / retirement insurance package. There is a direct benefit for the employee or their dependents in the event of death. Buffett also contributes massive sums to charities which reduces his tax amount. Wealthy people hire tax accountants that use legal ways to shelter the money from inheretence taxes so they don't pay it anyway. They guy who gets stuck is the middle class person that saves like crazy for his retirement and then drops dead before he can enjoy it. The rich person can very easily use tax shelters to avoid paying the tax. BTW, the top 10% of wage earners pay 50% of the federal income tax so lets not ever say the wealthy don't pay their way. Nothing wrong with them paying this amount but all too often people think that the rich don't pay their fair share, they do.

Posted by: JD | November 14, 2007 4:22 PM

JD- do you reject ALL taxation or just the estate tax?

What right does any government have to take my legacy and give it to others without my approval. If I pass away a rich man, is it not my right to pass that money to my kin as I see fit. I worked for that money and my family sacrificed time together so that I could build businesses that employ hunderds of people. I donate thousands to worthy causes. Why shouldn't my family receive their full inheritance; it's their money.

Posted by: JD | November 14, 2007 4:22 PM

JD... you give the answer multiple times throughout that rant. YOU worked for that money, your KIDS didn't.

When you pass that money to your children, that is INCOME to them, no less than my kids paycheck is income to him.

Why should your brats get to live off of income they DIDN'T work for tax-free when my kid has to pay taxes on income he DID work for?

You wanna talk about unfair taxation. THAT's it in definition.

Republic Party economic "strategy":

TRICKLE DOWN

Trickle Down

trickle down

VOODOO ECONOMICS!

**they've gotta keep those poor white rednecks in the South voting against their own self interests and for the Republican Party otherwise they're sunk**
(see Beavis's...I mean Travis's post above)

I worked for that money and my family sacrificed time together so that I could build businesses that employ hunderds of people.

Posted by: JD | November 14, 2007 4:22 PM

And let me play you the world's smallest violin for all the sacrifices the kids of millionaires have to make. Mom gets to stay home, nannies, private schools, trust funds.. poor, poor plutocrat spawn. They deserve all the tax-free income they can get after such a tough life.

Stewart,

Here's the source for my statement. You'll accept the US Treasury, I assume.

According to the Treasury Department, from 1776-2000, the first 224 years of U.S. history, 42 U.S. presidents borrowed a combined $1.01 trillion from foreign governments and financial institutions, but in the past four years alone, the Bush administration borrowed $1.05 trillion.

That was in 2005.

Warren Buffett does understand that he can pay the treasury department any amount above and beyond what he owes in taxes, right? He does understand that they'll accept it, right?

Posted by: T.J. Brown | November 14, 2007 4:26 PM

Sorry genius but if you pay more in than you owe to the IRS they give you a refund check.

Um, the estate tax doesn't tax the guy who earned a fortune. That guy is pushing up daisies at the time the tax is collected.

So it's really a tax on the dead guy's heirs, who haven't earned a dime of the money.

How exactly does it reward hard work to refrain from taxing a total windfall that the recipients didn't lift a finger in order to receive?

Dogjudge...Republicans illustrate that lower tax rates has indeed increased government revenues. Corporate profits are the result of investments. The more capital available into the private market, the more investment. It's really not that difficult to understand. We can chop it up anyway you like it but the bottom line is that lower taxes work. The wealthy are paying a greater percentage of taxes now than they were during the Clinton years.

boneill and john -

my point, obviously lost, is that if Buffet thought the best place to put money to do things to help people was the US Treasury, he sure has a funny way of showing it.

He is doing everything he can to avoid giving his money to the very people he says he should give more to.

There is no law against paying more in taxes than you owe. So why isn't Buffet doing it NOW?

And why aren't the geniuses at the Tribune asking that question?

Jethro,

Not necessarily. You can overstate your income, for starters. Again, should you send the Dept. of the Treasury a check they will cash it.

And if the government sends you a refund check, why should you cash it if you believe it to be unfair?

But, again, Warren Buffett has to believe that only scumballs would use or seek out tax-sheltering services like these: http://www.bhln.com/

Oh, I never pictured myself as a genius, but thanks!

Yeah Brucie,

Rich guys usually throw their support behind those who they think best support their own philosophies. That's why the Walton Clan donates to Republicans. They want all workers to be impoverished surfs, underpaid, under-insured, underrepresented and powerless. That's called the WalMart rule.

So, the son's and daughter's of Mom & Pop business's, family farm's, etc., are forced to sell to enable them to pony-up 55% of the family "fortune" to pay uncle sam once again, (already paid income tax, etc.) Generation'(s) of sweat, toil and going without, down the drain.. I hope Willie Nelson will still be around with his Farm Aid to help out a few of "them rich farmers" once the "poor liberal's" are back in power. Reward failure's and loafer's, punish hard work and success.

Taxing the SUPER rich is one thing, but when applied to SMALL business owners who may be trying to leave something behind for their families is ridiculous....I would have to say that estates worth over 3.5 million should be taxed to death...As we know these people use evey loop hole possible before death to minimize their estates and they don't pay half of what they should.... Like Leona Helmsley said "only the little people pay taxes" and ain't that the truth..

The Estate Tax issue always brings another episode of Miss the Point. This has nothing do do with government spending.

The Point of the Estate tax is exactly as Buffet said, namely, to eliminate aristocracy in this country. It's tax created for the primary purpose of achieving a social outcome, not for the purpose of raising money. The rationale, simply, is that the Estate tax makes it difficult for families to amass and pass along great fortunes, which can be used to "buy" political and other power.

So the question for the wingers -- whose stances are so very predictable -- is simply this: Do you oppose having this country controlled by a handful of families? If so, you need to suggest a way other than the Estate Tax to achieve the desired societal outcome.

---

Congrats to BBoy for the dumbest post of the day. I know some very rich people. Among their greatest challenges is to inspire their kids to work for a living when the kids know they really don't have to.

Not all poor people are lazy, you idiot, and not all rich people work hard.

One simple question for you. The Republicans have borrowed more money over the last few years than ALL previous US governments COMBINED

Dogjudge..You said borrowed more money..You did not indicate you were referencing borrowing money from foreign countries and foreign banks..Big difference..But I get your point.

Stewart,

You're kidding? Right?

"Corporate profits are the results of investing." On a simplistic level that might be true. For companies, such as the oil companies, it has meant decreasing refining capacity to drive up the price of gasoline. Wonderful investment there. Or the mining companies, with their wonderful safety records. Need I go on?

The wealthy are paying more in taxes now than under Clinton. You're kidding right?

Your source for that? Other than Rush.

I also loved MD B's comment about the top 10% paying a 50% tax rate. Kind of hard to do when their tax rate doesn't even go that high.

You folks really need to question some of the BS that you've obviously bought into. Don't you ever question ANYTHING that you are told?

DT.

Why don't you start a retail business and pay your stock boys, cashiers and such $50,000 a year or so and see how long you remain in business. These are entry-level jobs my friend. If these people choose to make a career out of it, go right ahead

Life isn't fair. Besides the Paris Hiltons of the world are doing a fine job of redistributing their wealth without involving the deadweight loss of the US Government.

None of you pro-death tax types works for family businesses, huh? Because if you do, you'd be a heartbeat away from being downsized if Warren got his way.

So, the son's and daughter's of Mom & Pop business's, family farm's, etc., are forced to sell to enable them to pony-up 55% of the family "fortune" to pay uncle sam once again, (already paid income tax, etc.) Generation'(s) of sweat, toil and going without, down the drain.. I hope Willie Nelson will still be around with his Farm Aid to help out a few of "them rich farmers" once the "poor liberal's" are back in power. Reward failure's and loafer's, punish hard work and success.

Posted by: HARRY JOHNSON | November 14, 2007 5:29 PM

You mean the small businesses and family owned farms that almost no longer exist because of the Republican's corporate conglomerate friendly, free-world-trade economic policies? you mean those small farms and businesses, Harry?

Why don't you actually TALK to a small business owner or family farmer. I guarantee you the Estate Tax will not cross that person's lips in a conversation about what's destroying his livelihood... You'll hear a lot about Chinese toys at Walmart and Monsanto bribing wheat farmers... Brazillian corn.... Meat conglomerates consolidating and declaring economic war on small stockers.

All kinds of fruits of the "free-market" labors of republicans in office...but I guarantee you you won't hear the words "Estate tax".

The Big Orange Satan,
It’s understandable you don’t understand the trickle down effect, Liberalism does that to you. Here is a very simple explanation so even you can, after having someone read it to you, understand.

Tax cuts 101 (this means very basic)

The rich (or anybody you deem to be rich) spend money on a new house or two or three, or 5 this effects:
The realtor who sold the house (Income for them)
The local tax collector (This includes all individuals in the city, income for city employees, ie Mayor, water district, police, fire, trash man, etc)
The local restaurants (Income for the owner and their employees)
The school district (IN the form of taxes, if their kids go to public school)
Private education (Income, If their kids don’t go to public school)
Entertainment ie movie theater, ballet etc (Income to those working the event etc)
The maid (Income)
The gardener (income)
The local garage (Income)
The local florist (Income)
The grocery store (Income of all the workers)
Travel agent (Income)
The baker
The candlestick maker
Etc
Etc
Etc

Take the credit away, maybe the rich don’t buy a house and prefer to just save the money or travel to some exotic location and spend the money there instead. What happens to those individuals above, who didn’t see a huge tax relief? Hum well they have no job they get laid off since no new money is coming in. Then what happens to the family? Any guesses? They turn to the free hand out clinic because they have to support 5 kids and all they know is how to bag groceries. You just don’t get it, people used to feel lucky to have a job, know they demand a job and free hand-outs, yet complain about everything. Liberalism is a mental disorder!

Just think, crafty b, if you got rid of all them republican's, there would no longer be a reason for there to be any democrat's. Oh wait, I think Fidel Castro already thought of that!

To all of those crying bitter tears about the mom and pop businesses being destroyed by the estate tax...You can cheer up. It doesn't happen.

From the IRS website:

Most gifts are not subject to the gift tax and most estates are not subject to the estate tax. (Only about 2% of all estates are subject to the estate tax).

To reemphasize: Most relatively simple estates (cash, publicly traded securities, small amounts of other, easily valued assets and no special deductions or elections or jointly held property) with a total value under $1,000,000 and a date of death in 2002 or 2003, under $1,500,000 and a date of death in 2004 or 2005, and under $2,000,000 and a date of death in 2006 or 2007 do not require the filing of an estate tax return.

Q: What about the value of my family business/farm?

Generally, the fair market value of such interests owned by the decedent are includible in the gross estate at date of death. However, for certain farms or businesses operated as a family farm or business, reductions to these amounts may be available.

In the case of a qualifying Family Farm, IRC §2032A allows a reduction from value of up to $820,000.

If the decedent owned an interest in a qualifying family owned business, a deduction from the gross estate in the amount of up to $1,100,000 may be available under IRC §2057.

So unless your "mom and pop" business is worth over $2,000,000 dollars, no estate tax. If it's over two million bucks, and you've done some prudent estate planning with the decendant you plan to pass the buiness on two, they don't have to pay taxes on a million dollars of it.

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=98968,00.html

The below should clarify everything...HA HA

From the University of Georgia :

Bar Stool Economics

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all
ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes,
it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with
the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since
you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the
cost of your daily beer by $20." Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so
the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free.
But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could
they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair
share?' They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they
subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the
sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar
owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by
roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts
each should pay.

And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four
continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men
began to compare their savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20,"declared the sixth man. He
pointed to the tenth man," but he got $10!" "Yeah, that's right,"
exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair
that he got ten times more than I!" "That's true!!" shouted the
seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The
wealthy get all the breaks!" "Wait a minute," yelled the first four
men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine
sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the
bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough
money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, ladies and gentlemen, journalists and college professors,
is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get
the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them
for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact,
they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat
friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics
University of Georgia

For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do
not understand, no explanation is possible.

You just don’t get it, people used to feel lucky to have a job, know they demand a job and free hand-outs, yet complain about everything. Liberalism is a mental disorder!

Posted by: Travis Chapman | November 14, 2007 5:55 PM

Yes My lord, we'll all get back to work. Sorry us pitiful serfs questioned your lordship's generosity. We know all us lowly peons ahould be happy for whatever crumbs your lordship throws us. We are yours to command without question, as will be our children and our children's children.

Yes AJF, that is the current structure. What the subject we are discussing is the repeal of same, at the end of the 10 year trial when the law reverts back to "the good ol' day's" when Robin Hood take's from the rich, (those that worked their butt off all their life to make a better life for their family), and give to those that didn't.. Of coarse there are those less fortunate that are needy and deserving, that goes w/out saying. ...H

You have all heard the phrase, "No taxation without representation." Well, currently the only representation in the White House and Congress are those politicians supported by the industrial/war/oil complex. So if logic serves me right - middle/lower class Americans aren't really represented in the Congress, and those who are should pay the taxes since they are the ones reaping the benefits with billion dollar government contracts, shady oil deals, and a war to benefit the wealthy and kill the children of the poor. The idea that a rich man's inheritance should go untaxed to his beneficiaries is a perpetuation of a caste society where the average American carries the burden while the offspring of the rich prance around feeling "democracy' is just a word to appease the peons.

Thank you Mr. Buffett.

Funny how Silva refers to this as the "so-cslled" death tax. Since death is the taxable event, I think the tax ought to be renamed as such. It's the current term that's such a misnomer. I mean how can one call 1 million dollars in todays world an "estate"? Hell, the net present value of a public school teacher pension nearing "retirement" in their 50's is worth north of a million. For those without pensions in unprotected careers who need/choose to save their dollars (after being taxed as income) to provide for themselves in old age and their kids - why the hell should their family be raped to the tune of not 10, 20..but 55%! if they die early? Sorry, but this tax is criminal - especially because it starts at such a low level. "Paris Hilton"...(imo. the Willie Horton of this issue)? "Aristocratic dynasties"? Please......one needs hundreds of millions if not billions to fit in these categories. Perhaps a compromise is in order - raise the threshold to 100 million and make the rate progressive so uber-rich guys like Warren get their wish.

The Republican Party needs to start paying off the massive debt that we owe to China for funding their pre-emptive war in Iraq and then maybe their rich oil buddies can have their tax cuts reinstated, until that time they can bite the bullet like everyone else has had to do the last seven years that W. has been President.

GOPer Economics:
----------
TRICKLE DOWN

Trickle Down

trickle down

*unfortunately it never "trickles down" to the average middle & lower class Americans like their hero Ronbo Reagan said it did*

VOODOO ECONOMICS!

Yes, thank you Mr. Buffet for unloading the bulk of your "insurance co." fortune to the Bill Gates Foundation so as to avoid paying "death tax" to the fed...Or is "conscience" that you gave to a charitable fund instead of pay your "fair share" tax

Math Whiz,

Sorry you had to wait a few hours for you economic lesson, but I have a job.

As far as Mr. Buffets wealth, he isn't leaving it to the gov't but he is giving it to the Gates foundation. Which I feel that is fine, since it is HIS money.

Michael,

There is no such thing as "inherited income". There is inherited wealth. Why should one pay tax just because they die?

Dog,

Remember it was the Republicans that thru all that spending ended the cold war and led to the democrats dismantling the military and intellgence operations thru the "peace dividend" and ignoring the radical islamists that has led to the current sopending of Republicans.

Dog,

Laffer Curve - last three times incomes taxes have been cut, gov't tax revenues have increased. Empirical evidence.

Who pays taxes? Read and weep.

http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6

Jim,

It isn't the gov'ts job to teach Paris Hilton or any Kennedy child "about the struggles of those less fortunate".

MD B,

As far as Buffet's AA paying a higher income tax rate than Mr. Buffet, let's put that myth to rest. I believe that Mr. Buffet is being disingenous and not ignorant when he states this. Yes, capital gains and dividends are taxed at 15%, while the AA is being taxed at say 25% (incremnetal tax rate) as a middle class taxpayer. What Mr. Buffet fails to tell you is that dividend income or capital gains are based upon after tax income of the corporation which is 35% at the federal level. So his actual tax rate is almost 50%, not 15%.

Crafty B,

True John D's kids didn't work for his income, but neirther did anyone elses kids. Also, when you

Jethro,

One can gift money to the gov't. Even so, if the gov't sends you a refund check, does not mean you have to cash it.

Class Dismissed

Total US debt from George Washington to Jimmy Carter: $1 Trillion.

Total U.S. Debt by 1992: $4 Trillion.

That's right, Ronald Reagan and George Bush Sr. borrowed more in 12 years than ALL ADMINISTRATIONS COMBINED in almost 200 years...more than the Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam combined. Clinton managed to balance the budget for one year (barely - and with some funny numbers) but now we are up to $8 TRILLION.

When all the Republicans tell me how they plan on paying this back, I will believe that they are conservative. During my lifetime (I was born 1973) they have acted like spoiled 19 year old loose at the mall with daddy's credit card!

Posted by: Travis Chapman | November 14, 2007 5:55 PM

Beavis,

There's a big difference between me and the poor white rednecks from the South that you Republican scum con into voting for you.

I understand that trickle down economics is a boatload of crap, they don't.

You better hope those good ol' boys down yonder stay uneducated, Mr. GOoPer, cause things are startin' to look mighty bad for ya'll Republics thanks to your Decider in Chief guy from Texas.

Cue banjo music....

Eliminate the tax break for donations to private foundations!! What a hypocrite. Buffett sucks. He makes me want to vomit. Increase capital gains tax, eliminate estate tax - put accountants and lawyers out of work (that's a good thing, by the way).

1) Buffett has not sold one single share of Berkshire. If he did, he would pay capital gains taxes. Why not sell some and pay more taxes?

2) He gave the bulk of his wealth (stock) to the Gates foundation so that the foundation can sell the shares and not pay tax. Again, why not sell the shares first, pay those taxes he wants to pay, then give to charity?

Sounds like some grandstanding to me...

"If Buffett wants to ease his conscience, just take out his checkbook and write out a hum-dinger to me. He could make it out to the U.S. Treasury, but I can guarantee that I would be more responsible in spending it to help the general good. Seriously, if he feels bad, send a Brinks Truck load of dough to Washington...and watch it disappear."

A freakin' men!

It would appear that perhaps he and his buddy Bill Gates are the only ones who feel thusly.

I've not heard nor read anything about his peers rushing to rally around him to support him in such a "courageous" stand.

The only ones who seem to be agreeing with him are the typical class warfare warriors who appear here regularly to bash anything and everything conservative.

If you're not benefiting from the Bush tax cuts, chances are you didn't earn enough to be taxed in the first place.

So, Warren feels guilty about his wealth and to assuage his guilt, he believes everyone else who is considered to be wealthy be taxed, too. The day will soon come when the federal government considers a $35,000.00 gross income to be "wealthy" and the taxation won't stop.

Here's the dirty little secret that Warren doesn't want you to know--even if he was taxed at 90%, his net worth would still place him among the wealthiest in the world.

If you want real tax reform, tax wealth instead of income or inheritance. Buffett, Kerry, Perot would all become staunch anti-tax conservatives overnight.

"If you're not benefiting from the Bush tax cuts, chances are you didn't earn enough to be taxed in the first place." - Tyler durden

That is outrageous. I made $80,000 last year and I received little benefit from the Bush cuts because I don't have any capital gains. My only investments are in already tax-deferred accounts (401, and an IRA). That's partly because I went to graduate school in my late 20's and have not accumulated wealth. Instead, I accumulated student loan debt - that's what you get for choosing to educate oneself, I guess.

The problem with Bush's approach to taxes is its focus on rewarding people who have accumulated wealth ALREADY, not people who are trying to accumulate it. The trouble is this: A person who inherits money, and makes $100,000 from investments but does zero actual work, pays considerably LESS in taxes than a person who didn't happen to be so fortunate in birth but worked for a living and earned $100,000. The system as it stands punishes earnings from work. Not a good system.

It would be better to treat income and capital gains equally. Investment is important, but so is income from work. Relatively few people are able to have enough capital gains (outside of investments that are already tax-sheltered like 401's and IRAs) to have enough capital gains where Bush's cuts make a noticeable difference in their finances. It only helps those who are already quite well off. Bush may have been right to reduce taxes, but the way he did it was wrong.

The Big Tangerine,
What? So There’s a big difference between you, meaning tangerine clown "and the poor white rednecks from the South that you Republican scum con into voting for you." Oh hmmm did you get your feeling hurt, sliced fruit? So now you do know about trickle down economics? You just don’t understand it yet. I understand that mental disorder keeps you from full embracing it. Try having someone read it to you, it may help. Maybe it was still a bit too academic for you. In that case you’ll just keep voting wrong. There is no way to change your behavior if you continue to drink the same cool aid.

Take a look http://mwhodges.home.att.net/election2004.htm tell me again which southern state was it that Bush took. Big Tangerine, looks to me like the whole country was red. I do believe red is Republican, no?

Ozzie,
That little story leaves out what those 10 men do in the daytime. With the 10th man gone overseas, the 9th man gets a promotion, as do the others. They continue to pay their beer tax in proportion to their incomes but they also have more cash left over. The next time the bar man tells them he is going to lower their taxes, they tell him to spend the money on nicer bar stools instead.

There is nothing stopping Warren Buffet from giving all his money to the government. He can give as much as he wants, it's his right. But as a middle class person, I find it wrong and immoral for the government to keep taking money that doesn't belong to them.

The Big GOP Lie

"Read my lips, no new taxes"

Yessiree, they're not going to raise your taxes, they're going to put all of their excess spending on your already maxed out USA credit card, in care of Communist China.

Hopefully when our grandkids start feeling the effects of the Republican made deficit spending, they'll also feel the urge to kick them all out of office just like we're in the process of doing now.

"Conservatives" my arse.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics
University of Georgia

For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do
not understand, no explanation is possible.

Posted by: Ozzie | November 14, 2007 6:10 PM

Yes, Ozzie... If we raise taxes just a bit more, we might bring upon ourselves a mass-exodus of CEO's leaving our country for such flat-tax utopias as Kazakhstan, Mongolia, Albania, and Iraq. Maybe they'll take up goat farming...Oh... and there will be no-one else willing to take their 9-figure jobs that they left behind, too.

LOL. You idiot.

Keep reading the fictional stories... it's the only way the Republican world-view can be made to make sense. When you get past a 6 year old's comprehension level of these topics you won't be so manipulatable by poorly-reasoned yarns.

True John D's kids didn't work for his income, but neirther did anyone elses kids.

Posted by: Terry | November 14, 2007 6:43 PM

And because of that John D's kids shouldn't get taxed on the income they live off of, but everyone else's kids should?

I don't follow, Terry. Could you explain how that makes sense?

Here is the liberal mentality, “It’s not fair I don’t have what you have. I’m offended I don’t have the money you have, the life you have, the luxuries you do. Poor me, I need to make it fair for all of us living in a social state so I’ll create ridiculous rules to limit your wealth and tax you more so I can feel better about myself and the good I’ve done. Without me taxing you I wouldn’t be able to sleep at night.”

Posted by: Travis Chapman | November 14, 2007 2:56 PM

In this instance, a 10 second search of FCC records shows that Warrne Buffett and his family practically finance the Democratic Party, with mega-contributions to (among others) Obama and Clinton.

So what we have here is a Left-wing activist coming out for higher taxes. Not exactly news.

Posted by: Bruce | November 14, 2007 2:44 PM
___________________________

Ummmm so let's see. Buffett is a liberal, according to Bruciee's concept. But according to Travis, a liberal is someone that doesn't have the money someone else has. But... Buffett has more money than almost anyone but god. So which is it guys? Perhaps Buffett just cares about people in general, and doesn't spend all his time trying to abuse, hate, smear, despise and demean people? That would make travis and brucieee both wild eyed republicrite apologistas with nothing but a dittohead agenda to run down fellow Americans. Yup, that must be the case.

These guys are almost as hypocritical as president chainsaw and his commander in foolishness, earboy.

Us loonies are SO looking forward to when Hilary is running the country.

Knocking out the inheritance tax in the US would be a disaster for the country. The huge tax cuts for the rich over the past 25 years have already put a tremendous strain on the rest of the population, which has to pay just as much tax as they ever did for far fewer services from the government, and now the Republicans want to sign off another huge giveaway to people who don't need it, won't spend it, and will likely invest much of it abroad. If ordinary working stiffs wish to go on paying more and more taxes for fewer and fewer services, then go right ahead, support estate tax repeal. Because repeal will create a big big hole in the federal budget, one that more than likely will be balanced on the likes of people who will never be touched by any estate tax.

The small business bleating is a red herring. Anything that is legitimately a small business is already protected from the estate tax. And unlike in most other countries, the US estate tax is graduated rather than flat, so you really do have to have an "estate" worth of the name to face a major hit. And at that level of wealth, you can handle it.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed. For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.
Posted by: Ozzie
-
I'll try to explain it to you anyway.
Make believe stories like that aren't worth a dime. It's a variation of the Strawman (Create a scenario that has no connection to anyone's reality and try to fob it off as though it actually has any relevance).

Economics, like many subjects, is far to complex to sum up in a fable. Those who only use soundbytes, slogans , and parables should leave the discussion to the grown-ups.

Oh, by the way, David R. Kamerschen didn't write that.

http://www.snopes.com/business/taxes/howtaxes.asp

The Big Tangerine,
There’s a big difference between you and the poor white rednecks from the South that you Republican scum con into voting for you? Oh hmmm did you get your feeling hurt, sliced fruit? So now you do know about trickle down economics? You just don’t understand it yet. I understand that mental disorder keeps you from full embracing it. Try having someone read it to you, it may help. Maybe it was still a bit too academic for you. In that case you’ll just keep voting wrong. There is no way to change your behavior if you continue to drink the same cool aid.

Take a look http://mwhodges.home.att.net/election2004.htm tell me again which southern state was it that Bush took. Big Tangerine, looks to me like the whole country was red. I do believe red is Republican, no?

DT.

Why don't you start a retail business and pay your stock boys, cashiers and such $50,000 a year or so and see how long you remain in business. These are entry-level jobs my friend. If these people choose to make a career out of it, go right ahead

Posted by: Stewart | November 14, 2007 5:41 PM

Tell that to Jim Sinegal, Stew.

Sinegal admits that "paying high wages [to his employees] is contrary to conventional wisdom."

And conventional wisdom in this case comes from Wall Street. Analysts seem to be the only critics of Costco and Sinegal. They think the company could make even more money if it paid its workers less -- like Wal-Mart does.

Sinegal is unfazed by his critics. "Wall Street is in the business of making money between now and next Tuesday," he said. "We're in the business of building an organization, an institution that we hope will be here 50 years from now. And paying good wages and keeping your people working with you is very good business."

What Sinegal has proven is that a company doesn't have to be ruthless. Being humane and ethical can also make you money.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Business/story?id=1362779

The socalled Oracle of Omaha Warren Buffett is insincere. He is free to write a check to the U.S. Treasury for any amount he wants if he thinks the IRS doesn't take as much as he would like.
What I and many Americans don't like is his embracement of socialist Democrat programs by confiscating money from working families. It amounts to a liberal stickem -up give me your money.
I agree with Steve Forbes the death tax is representation without resperation.
All dead people have been taxed all their lives what's left should go to their families to keep their business going.Jerry White, Springfield, IL

Hmmmm....let's see. Warren can either send his billions to the federal government so they can spend it on bloated inefficient programs, corruption, and war...or he can create more businesses, jobs, and invest directly into his favorite charities. Tough call.

"Tax them too much, attack them
for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact,
they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat
friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics
University of Georgia"

Posted by: Ozzie | November 14, 2007 6:10 PM

LOL This is the most ignorant thing I've read. Leave the US? The US is a tax shelter. Businesses come to America because of our low taxes. Don't believe me. Try setting up shop in Europe. Also the reason American families have amassed their wealth is because the US has a strong and stable government that allows business to flourish. Don't believe me. Try setting up shop in a war torn African country or Central America. See if your business oportunities are the same as here. I say if the 9th and 10th drinkers want to leave, good riddance. Someone will take their place. It's the American way.

"The resources of society I don't think should pass along in terms of an aristocratic dynasty of wealth," Buffett told the Senate committee. "I believe in keeping equality of opportunity as much as you can in this country."

BINGO!! Somebody who actually gets it.

Remember the estate tax doesn't hurt the person who created the wealth only their heirs, like Paris or our current president, who did nothing to contribute to our society, but have extraordinary influence simply by the luck of birth.
In our country, money equals power. To make it even easier to establish a permanent aristocracy by doing away with the estate tax would be a huge threat to our democracy.

Maybe Warren Buffett, John Kerry's economic adviser, loves the estate tax because he stands to benefit from the tax personally?

As Grover Norquist points out, Buffett's insurance interests make big money off estate tax transfers. See http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=OWM0MjZmZTQzMmM5ODFhNTY5MjQ

This wouldn't be the first time some liberal has passed off greed as altruism. And this wouldn't be the first time the leftnuts have fallen for this scam.

"socialist Democrat programs by confiscating money from working families" -

Brilliant. As if the estate tax is punishing working families. As if your police department and fire department isn't 'socialist'. Want to give those up and have a capitalist 'for profit' police department or a fire department that only saves homes that pay up? And it's the Democratic not Democrat party but I'm sure you knew that.

Bruce,
Your Grover Norquist hit piece link doesn't work. I'm sure it was filled with lies and personal attacks though. Funny how Buffet gives more than most to charity and you call him greedy. How much of his fortune is he leaving to his children?

Bernie O you are such a socialist you would confiscate a dead man or womans assets and steal from their children to stop us from having an aristocracy.Bernie in plain words you are a thief and so is Buffett who advoc