by Frank James
If a candidate wants to potentially lose a lot of Hispanic votes, then he or she should focus on cracking down on illegal immigrants.
That's one important take-away message from a new Pew Hispanic Center poll released today. The survey suggests that when politicians, particularly Republicans, try to outcompete each other on immigration enforcement, many Hispanics take such talk personally.
This is from the center's summary of the poll's results:
...Just over half of all Hispanic adults in the U.S. worry that they, a family member or a close friend could be deported, a new nationwide survey of Latinos by the Pew Hispanic Center has found. Nearly two-thirds say the failure of Congress to enact an immigration reform bill has made life more difficult for all Latinos. Smaller numbers (ranging from about one-in-eight to one-in-four) say the heightened attention to immigration issues has had a specific negative effect on them personally. These effects include more difficulty finding work or housing; less likelihood of using government services or traveling abroad; and more likelihood of being asked to produce documents to prove their immigration status...
This poll shows the problems that both Republicans and Democrats are facing on the immigration issue.
Politico.com today reported that Republicans see tough-talk on immigration as the only issue that works for them. Immigration hawkishness played a key role in the House Republicans holding on to two seats by wide margins during special elections in Ohio and Virginia.
But it's apparent from this poll that such positions run the risk of angering many Latino voters. This same Pew center recently released a poll on the party preferences of Hispanics which indicated that Latinos are moving to the Democratic party and away from Republican affiliation.
Meanwhile, if Democrats propose ideas that sound like amnesty for illegal immigrants, they run the risk of a backlash and not just from independents, but even many Democratic voters who want to put a stop to illegal immigration.
Pew goes on:
Hispanics are the nation's largest minority group, numbering 47 million (about 15.5% of the total U.S. population). About a quarter of Hispanic adults are unauthorized immigrants, most of them arriving as part of a heavy wave of immigration that began gathering force in the 1970s. Twice in the past two years, the U.S. Congress tried but failed to pass comprehensive legislation to deal with the problem of illegal immigration. However, federal, state and local governments have pressed forward with hundreds of new enforcement bills, regulations and procedures--including stepped up deportations, more workplace raids, and restrictions on access to driver's licenses and other government services and benefits.
The survey finds that Hispanics oppose these enforcement measures, often by lopsided margins. Three quarters (75%) disapprove of workplace raids; some 79% prefer that local police not take an active role in identifying illegal immigrants; and some 55% disapprove of states checking for immigration status before issuing driver's licenses. By contrast, non-Hispanics are much more supportive of all these policies, with a slight majority favoring workplace raids and a heavy majority favoring driver's license checks.
In addition to this wide variance in views between Hispanics and non-Hispanics, the survey finds less pronounced--but still significant--gaps within the Hispanic community on a range of matters, from perceptions about discrimination to attitudes about illegal immigration to support for tougher enforcement measures. For example, on questions about enforcement policies, native-born Hispanics take positions that are closer to those of the rest of the U.S. population than do foreign-born Hispanics. Also, the native born are less likely than the foreign born to report a negative personal impact from the heightened attention to immigration issues.
Likewise, Hispanics who are not citizens feel much more vulnerable in the current environment than do Hispanics who are citizens. They are about twice as likely as Hispanic citizens to worry about deportation and to feel a specific negative personal impact from the heightened attention to illegal immigration. (Non-citizens account for 44% of the total adult Hispanic population. Of these non-citizen Latino adults, an estimated 55% are undocumented immigrants and the other 45% are legal aliens).
Hispanics also have widely varying assessments about the amount of attention that local officials and political leaders in their communities are paying to the issue of illegal immigration. A third say a lot, but four-in-ten say not too much, and one-in-five say none at all. These variances likely reflect the reality that the issue has become politically heated in some parts of the country but not in others.
Whatever new vulnerability Hispanics feel in the present political and policy environment, the survey finds little evidence of a backlash against illegal immigration by Hispanics themselves. To the contrary, Hispanics generally see illegal immigrants as a plus – both for the Latino community itself and for the U.S. economy in general. Here, too, there are differences by nativity – with the foreign born significantly more positive than the native born in their views about the effects of illegal immigration. But even the native born are more positive than negative. And, as they assess the impact of illegal immigrants on the economy, native-born Latinos are more inclined to see a positive impact now (64%) than they were five years ago, when just 54% said the impact was positive.
The last paragraph shouldn't be glossed over. Hispanics see illegal immigration as a net positive for the U.S.. That view extends even to native-born Hispanics.
Again, the political implications of this seem obvious. Tough talk on illegal immigration isn't likely to win over this growing voting bloc.





Comments
I don't know why it is wrong to demand documentation. It is illegals that we have to crack down on not legal Hispanic citizens.
Liberals don't want people to show documentation to vote or anything. Why?
I carry a voters ID and present it at the polls what's the big deal. The idea that this hurts minorities is baloney then, they shouldn't vote if they are not registered.
It's as simple as that.
My daughter-in-law came from Russia she is legal and is proud that she is an American citizen and proud of completing citizenship school and even prouder that she votes.
Amnesty is wrong it discriminates against people from European counties who com here and follow the rules.
Liberals don't like rules unless it's telling us not to smoke or some other new age psychobabble like global warming or the environment. They are like a religion and abortion is one of their sacraments.
I don't believe the poll because legal Hispanics are proud to be legal and proud to be citizens.
America is a melting pot and English should be our official language.Jerry White, Springfield, IL
Posted by: Jerry White | December 13, 2007 11:02 AM
Most Americans want them gone..
Posted by: American Son | December 13, 2007 11:08 AM
They sneak in and bring their disease.
T.B. was almost nonexistent in the late 1980's, but when B.J. Clinton opened the door for the illegals in the early 90's, T.B. went up by 30% in certain states that welcome and harbor illegals...like California.
Paulo
Posted by: Paulo | December 13, 2007 11:30 AM
I am not for immediate deportation, but I'm also not for amnesty. I am for folks coming here through legal means and not through illegal means.
It is interesting to note that the Democratic party is allegedly in danger of losing some Democrats and independents over amnesty or appeasing Hispanics over illegal residents.
Let's make it so the illegal arrival of immigrants is stopped. Then let's look at a common sense approach to deal with those already here that does not criminalize or deport them (unless criminals or other deviant), but also doesn't give them amnesty.
Posted by: John D | December 13, 2007 11:30 AM
It can no longer be denied
that Mexico is doing everything it can to create
a MEXICAN NATION and
SHADOW GOVERNMENT within the borders of the USA. Dual citizenship,aiding
abetting and even urging its citizens to illegally emigrate to the USA calling them "heroes and Mexicans first just living north of the border"!
Posted by: OneifbyLand | December 13, 2007 11:36 AM
I feel some my people are supporting the idea that they are above the law?? They should also plan on financially supporting all illegals and their families.
My parents came her legally and I was part of the first generation born here and I do not share the same views or values.
Yet I had an illegal friend who is was pregnant with her 8th child. She plans to have as many children as the good lord with give her, yet expects the welfare benefits to provide for them.
Posted by: Rosa Cebolas | December 13, 2007 11:37 AM
Why are we not surprise at Jerry White's point of view?
I do support deporting Illegal Aliens who commits crime. But, I guess you've never been stereotyped.
Here is the reason why we don't want to have to show our ID's all the time:
1. We don't want to look like Iraq. Where every time you enter cities and towns, there is a checkpoint to see if you are Sunni or Shiite. We, as Americans, would like to come and go into a cities without having to prove that we are legal or illegal. It is a liberty that a person like you wouldn't quite appreciate.
You might laugh and say, such things will never happen here in America. Well we got the Minutemen manning our borders. It wouldn't be farfecthed when they come to your town and man a post. But, then again, I am sure you will be waiving flags when they come into your town, if not already.
Posted by: Lou | December 13, 2007 11:56 AM
I have a suggestion. Everybody who's forebears came to these shores willingly because the getting was good return to their country of origin and let's all start again. That leaves Native Americans, Blacks, Aztecs, and Mayans. The rest would happily be back with the people who look like them and they prefer being around. Fair enuff?
Posted by: GW | December 13, 2007 12:10 PM
And by the way, Jerry White can lead the way.
Posted by: GW | December 13, 2007 12:10 PM
Crazy Jerry,how many have crossed the borders since Bush became emperor?
Posted by: Raving Loon | December 13, 2007 12:35 PM
So Frank,
What you've just defined for us here is a clear and tangible demonstration that the United States of America's sovereignty has already been terribly damaged by illegal immigration.
Our now hispanic immigrants have not and WILL not assimilate.
To think we pay well over $340 Billion per year in their full support for their dismantling of our country.
This is THE number one issue in America...it only took over 21 years to catch our attention.
Numbers USA
www.numbersusa.com
The Heritage Foundation
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/index.cfm
The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration
http://www.usillegalaliens.com/
Americans For Sovereignty
http://www.americansov.org/info/about_americans_for_sovereignty.html
Posted by: Winghunter | December 13, 2007 1:08 PM
If the Republicans and their Prez candidates really cared about cracking down on illegal immigration they wouldn't just be TALKING about it, they would quit taking money from the big business's that hire illegal's and they would shut down the business's that hire illegal's.
They won't do it because their big business pals pay them off with the campaign and lobbying cash that they love so much.
This just another BS wedge issue that the Repubs like to quack about but in reality do absolutely nothing about.
Posted by: John E | December 13, 2007 1:23 PM
Yes Lou. I don't have a flag but I would like someone to enforce the immigration laws of our country. (sorry if they aren't popular in Mexico) I have voted mostly Democratic in past National elections but If the Democrats do not pledge to enforce these laws the Republicans will be getting one more vote.
I like Mexicans. As a group they seem to be great family people and hard workers but U.S. laws are written to serve the interests of the citizens of our country not theirs.
Posted by: malcolm | December 13, 2007 1:31 PM
I get a kick out of nut cases like Johnny D,who wants them come over legally.
What has Prez dumb dumb done in 7 years to stop illegals from crossing the border?
How many has he had deported?
Maybe he can't find them like Bin Laden.They're working in every factory in Chicago.Every Restaurant.
Or maybe because they help Big Corporations make more money and put Americans out of work,the Repupies turn they're back.
If we had some of those tax dollars back that numnuts is wasting in Iraq or he gave to O'Really and Hanniscum,we could hire more border guards(Americans)to guard the borders.
Posted by: Raving Loon | December 13, 2007 1:35 PM
I could care less what SOME hispanics think. 82% of the American public INCLUDING HISPANICS want an end to this maddness. To hell with illegals!!!
Posted by: SPQR_US | December 13, 2007 1:52 PM
It's simple; go home and then enter by legal means. Work for prevailing wages and benefits and not illegally.
By the way, I just heard that Vegas is absolutely full of illegals. Why hasn't anyone started raiding those hotels?
Oh, and make sure to get your favorite bleeding heart a dictionary for Christmas, since they clearly don't know the definition of the word "illegal!"
Posted by: mark | December 13, 2007 1:56 PM
Criminals did NOT build America; Citizens and LEGAL immigrants built it. Illegal Aliens and Immigration is NOT the same thing. 80% of the American people want an end to anarchy! This is NOT a Democrat, Republican, Independent issue. It's an American Issue.
Illegal aliens are criminals, those who hire them are criminals and those who aid-and-abet them are criminals.
Illegal aliens in America have NO rights. We are required by law to arrest and prosecute, deport them. (Title 8 U.S. Code) To report illegal aliens call the DHS National Hotline 1 866 DHS 2ICE. (1-866-347-2523)
No, matter your political party affiliation, and setting aside your thoughts on issues. We all need to remember what it is to be an American Citizen. We need to make sure our elected representatives obey their Oath of Office and keep their Oath of Allegiance. See http://tinyurl.com/2znnvl Know whom you are voting for.
Posted by: Dr Coles | December 13, 2007 2:02 PM
Another surprise! "Most Hispanics oppose crackdown on illegal aliens." Who would have thought so? This really should be tomorrow's banner headline. Are there any skywriters available? Any other difficult questions on which a poll can be conducted? What about: "How many persons would like to be given a million dollars?" Another hard predicter.
Posted by: Greenglass | December 13, 2007 2:04 PM
Well duh, I could have told you most of this without any study. Most any Hispanic is gonna go for non-enforcement of immigration laws, no raids, free services and drivers licenses for all. Of course the illegals are gonna say their lives are more stressed cause the gov't is cracking down somewhat. But if they were all LEGAL, then they wouldn't have to worry about them or their families being deported, discrimination, etc.
America still needs to vigorously enforce our laws, continue the raids and deport anyone who is here illegally. There is a process to follow and those who choose to circumvent our laws do not deserve to be in our country.
Posted by: Taylor | December 13, 2007 2:05 PM
Ironic that those who favor amnesty for lawbreakers take an issue that has little to do with race or ethnicity, spices it up with "racial" and "ethnic" terminology all the while screaming that anyone who opposes amnesty is racist.
Posted by: Mel | December 13, 2007 2:25 PM
Frank just can't come right out and state the truth.. American citizens, who are black, brown and white are against amnesty and are against illegal aliens crossing our borders and undermining their wages, their schools and overburdening our health care system and social services.
American citizens who are of Hispanic origins are majority against illegal aliens and amnesty. They want secure borders, they want their families to earn living wages, and their children to have a future. They are as upset by the fact that illegals have contributed to lower wages and higher taxes. They've formed groups like You Don't Speak For Me, in opposition to open borders lobbies like La Raza, LULAC and MALDEF.
Native Americans, like myself are angry and offended by illegals pretending to have any claim to this country, and their attempts at revisionism.
Frank, neither yourself nor the far right and left wing extremes can fudge the truth any more for your own political ideologies and agendas. We aren't putting up with it.
Posted by: Jenny | December 13, 2007 2:37 PM
Loon, sorry to inform you, but deportations are up in 2007. Seems Bush has gotten or is getting the message.
Frank did touch on this, albeit barely, but the two congressional elections won by the GOP (and contests the liberal pundits and media were expecting Dems to win those races) were in part over illegal immigration. The country wants something done, except for the Loony Left and some of the corporations. The unholy alliance.
Posted by: John D | December 13, 2007 2:39 PM
The PEW report doesn't "prove" anything. I went to Pew's website and looked at the methodology applied in gathering these statistics.
According to the report (and part of it reprinted in the article) there are 47 million Hispanics in the US, 25% of whom are here illegally.
The surveys were conducted by phone.
2,003 Hispanic adults were asked a series of questions. 687 of them were born in the US. 1312 were born in another country.
As far as I could tell, current immigration and/or citizenship status was NOT recorded. So we definitely know that 687 US citizens who identify themselves as Hispanic were surveyed.
As for the remaining 1312? Another article indicated that some respondents were concerned about being deported, so some of the 1312 must be here illegally.
In any case even if ALL of the 2,003 were US citizens, I would hardly call that a representative sampling.
Interesting that the author omitted any reference to methodology.
Posted by: Mel | December 13, 2007 2:44 PM
I get a kick out of all these Wingnut sycophants on here that endlessly cry about all the illegals here that THEIR own Republican Prez Drydrunk in Chief not only let in the country the last seven years but also CAMPAIGNED for their vote in 2000.
The Wingnuts don't seem to have a problem with Cuban's who if their feet touch our land are automatically let in by us.
Our military is filled with illegals who are offered citizenship if they sign up to fight in and die for the Republican led pre-emptive war on Iraq.
Posted by: John E | December 13, 2007 2:59 PM
Whether your an Hispanic, German, Korean or from Indian, you should want to enforce our laws of U.S. sovereignty? You have been given permission by the American people to enter these shores; not the elected public servants, but by THE PEOPLE! This wonderful privilege should not be taken for granted and you should strongly desire, as a new citizen or permanent resident to by abide by the rules of THE PEOPLE. Why is their any argument regarding this matter in the first place? Are you here to become part of American society, or have you come here to demand rights for people who intentionally broke our immigration laws? What gives foreign nationals of any country have the right to demand that the U.S. majority, give them amnesty; a path to citizenship? To jump ahead millions of honest, sincere people who jump through the hoops of immigration laws to get in line! You as new American, a new citizen who came from South of the border, should cherish and respect our Representative Democracy. Join other New Hispanic Americans to attain the American dream, like millions of others, who have a chance like any other nationality to obtain a better life for yourself and family? This is about respecting the laws of the Constitution, not the will of anti-American radicals. If you do not respect our laws, then you should be repatriated or deported. Americans of every race welcome newcomers, when they strive to achieve a partnership with our language, flag and the great culture. This is a country of laws and like any other citizen within the jurisdiction of this land, you must commit yourself to enforce those laws? Coercing with illegal individuals is dividing your relationship you have with other legally appointed people of your own birthplace. When you walk with illegal aliens you are committing an offense against ALL AMERICAN CITIZENS. Flying foreign flags in demonstrations is a paramount indignity and illustrates the contempt of illegal immigrants and those legal citizens who protest with them. Voicing your opinion is your right, but joining the tyranny of zealots is not embracing any unity for the common cause! I came to these shores, legally! Not as a British--hyphenated--American, but as a ordinary citizen! I am a loyal citizen, not of dual nationality like many are held to by their government of origin. There is a potential on the horizon of the same tribulations that is materializing in Europe. Mass immigration unimpeded, is a corporate --globalist, open border agenda to recruit cheap labor to undermine the monetary security of legal workers. France is a good example of out-of-control immigration chaos, followed closely by the United Kingdom. The European news is intentionally suppressed, that signifies the brewing trouble in the EU unity of nations. If this country called America does not stand together, we will fall into a abyss of racial turmoil.
Posted by: Brittanicus | December 13, 2007 3:00 PM
I don't understand why Frank James takes the position that a candidate can lose a lot of votes if they talk about cracking down on illegal immigrants when in the above study it says, "NON-CITIZENS ACCOUNT FOR 44% OF THE TOTAL ADULT HISPANIC POPULATION." That means nearly half of adult Hispanics CAN'T VOTE anyway and if Hispanics account for 15.5% of the total U.S. population, that doesn't translate into enough votes, in my opinion, to pander to them. Honestly! The New Slavery in America is Illegal Immigration and illegal immigration shouldn't be tolorated in any shape or form.
Posted by: Jim Smith | December 13, 2007 3:04 PM
i think an important element in any solution to the illegal migration from central america should include real foreign aid from the u.s. to those countries whose economic and social characteristics create a need for their citizens to migrate north and send their wages home.
sadly, most u.s. foreign aid seems to be in the form of credits for the purchases of military technology. the beneficiaries are the american defense industries and the thugs to whom we sell them.
that said, there is a real need for the u.s. to control its borders. the growth of the secondary labor pool in this country depresses wages, strains the social services network that is shamefully inadequate even for citizens, and takes money out of our economy.
also, no one has yet talked about what is the best size population for the u.s. i already feel that congestion in my part of the country is becoming intolerable.
the facts that most of the illegal immigration is from mexico, and mexico has one of the highest birth rates of any country on this planet mean that all the environmental problems we're facing will only get worse.
i will never vote for a republican, but the democrats are foolish if they think that pandering to the open border segment of the latino community will be acceptable to their base.
Posted by: tom brown | December 13, 2007 3:15 PM
I am sure that most of the hispanic vote will go to the democratic candidate. I'm not sure that it will make up for the amount of union or blue collar vote that the democrats have lost on this issue. Even as I type this, teamsters and truck drivers are talking about allowing mexican trucks to deliver goods in this country. How union people have been on construction sites, that some of the subcontractors have illegals and they are very unhappy about that fact. So I would say the democrats have won the hispanic vote, but at a cost.
Posted by: howard | December 13, 2007 3:22 PM
"PAPERS PLEASE" THAT'S RIGHT, MEXICAN AMERICANS, AKA HISPANICS ARE NOW FEELING THE PAIN AT THE PUMP"
POLICE OFFICERS AROUND THE COUNTRY NOW PULLING MOTHERS OVER AND ASKING THEIR ETHNICITY, THEIR NATIONALITY, AND PROOF OF THEIR SOCIAL SECURITY CARD.
EVEN THOUGH A SOCIAL SECURITY CARD ISN'T ID ANYMORE.
BUT DON'T WORRY BUSH WALL IS BEING BUILT BY CHINA ON THE MEXICAN BORDER SIDE ONLY, LEAVING THE CANADIAN BORDER OPEN AGAIN FOR THOSE "evil doers" TO COME BACK TO DICK CHENEY AND GET CLEARANCE TO SAND BOWL IN A CITY NEAR YOU.
S BILL 1639 AKA SATAN BILL 1639 THE CONSOLIDATION OF YOUR NATIONALITY, ETHNICITY, AND YES INDIANS, NATIVE INDIANS, YOUR SOVERIENTY IS CONSOLIDATED TOO.
LOOK FOR A SHADOW WOLF NEAR YOU.
GET YOUR BIOMETRIC PENS OUT, GET YOUR LOTTERY NUMBER YOU WANT ON YOUR RIGHT ARM, BECAUSE ONCE BUSH AND CHENEYS "border security" "ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY" IMMIGRATION REFORM ACT -
Lets break that down.
BORDER SECURITY - OKAY
ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY - SLAVERY - 1500.00 A HEAD, CHERTOFF NOW NEW COYOTE,
IMMIGRATION REFORM....WHAT IMMIGRATION REFORM....WHAT IMMIGRATION REFORM...OH THAT'S WHAT IT WAS SUPPOSE TO BE.
HEY BROTHA YOU BETTER LOSE THAT TAN! PAPERS, PAPERS PLEASE, NO BLUNT, NO BOEHNERS ALLOWED.
Posted by: Roger Morris | December 13, 2007 3:32 PM
"Liberals don't like rules unless it's telling us not to smoke or some other new age psychobabble like global warming or the environment. They are like a religion and abortion is one of their sacraments."
Posted by: Jerry White | December 13, 2007 11:02 AM
Jerry stop with the BS. Your rant is cr%p and your a retard. Paulo makes you look sane and John D look downright clever. Man you guys are crazy.
Posted by: paulo or paula | December 13, 2007 3:42 PM
The racist Republicans will pay next November. They have to - their hatred on immigration is disgraceful, and Nazi-like. Just wait until next November. And we seriously must deport racist monsters such as Lou Dobbs, Tom Tansredo, and Senator Sessions of Alabama.
Posted by: Sven Goran | December 13, 2007 4:31 PM
"The New Slavery in America is Illegal Immigration and illegal immigration shouldn't be tolorated in any shape or form."
Posted by: Jim Smith | December 13, 2007 3:04 PM
How about they're corporate American slave masters. The same ones that vote republican while they out source jobs. Republicans are hypocrits!
Posted by: Cheech | December 13, 2007 4:33 PM
Tom,
Those countries in Latin America that you are crying crocodile tears over are wealthy. The facts are that they have avoided raising wages and opportunities for their own people.
America now has a huge debt, and can no longer afford to give monies to other countries.. most especially wealthy, corrupt governments in Latin America. I think however, that Europe, which fattened itself through slavery and looting both North and South America during it's days of empire should now step up to the plate and start paying restitution. Most especially Spain, which was the colonial power behind the genocide committed against the native peoples of what is now called South America. It bled gold, and other resources out of those lands to prop up it's aristocracy.
Illegal aliens, amnesty and open borders is about one thing, and one thing alone. Another thing to prop up wealthy, corrupt Hispanic governments that only seek to exploit poverty to line their own pockets. No more American tax dollars should go south of the border.
In fact, we as a nation should either impose a ban, or levy a high tariff on any goods that are imported through the southern border until those countries raise the wages of their people and provide them better opportunities.
Now, Tom. I have to ask, why you simply refuse to even acknowlege the poverty faced by American citizens, who are black, brown and white? Is it that you profit from undermining wage standards, or perhaps you hope to, agenda-wise?
I will never vote for neo-con Hillary Clinton, or open borders Obama. Richardson is another neo-con who has bled the poor and middle class citizens of New Mexico dry, handing out tax cuts to the wealthy and corporate interests, and pretending he can't deal with poverty in the state. He's a fat, lazy pig who has sexually harassed female staff. He's the man from the Clinton administration who funneled military secrets to the Chinese government.. he has his snout buried in the outsourcers trough.
I will only vote for a candidate who vows to end or renegotiate NAFTA and all other trade deals, and end MFN for China until changes are made. I want jobs for American citizens, and not foreign nationals. Harvard participated in a study that revealed a few weeks ago when it's results were made public that there has never been a worker shortage in the US, whether we're talking about blue collar or unskilled labor, or up to high tech workers. It's all been a lie.
Just more corporate welfare.
Posted by: Jenny | December 13, 2007 5:13 PM
How about they're corporate American slave masters. The same ones that vote republican while they out source jobs. Republicans are hypocrits!
Posted by: Cheech | December 13, 2007 4:33 PM
You're right. We have slave masters here in the U.S. who don't think twice about paying substandard wages so they can get larger profits - and their illegal workers live in poverty and end up depending upon the middle class to subsidize them. And why are we outsourcing so much manufacturing to China given their human rights issues? That's why immigration enforcement needs to target the employer even more strongly than the worker so we can get on top of this unhealthy situation. We need to cast a spotlight on our business ethics here in America or the rich WILL continue to get richer while the number of poor increases.
Posted by: Jim Smith | December 13, 2007 5:44 PM
To Tom Brown just FYI regarding birth rates:
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/r.aspx?v=25
To Jerry White's comment:
"My daughter-in-law came from Russia she is legal and is proud that she is an American citizen and proud of completing citizenship school and even prouder that she votes.
Amnesty is wrong it discriminates against people from European counties who com here and follow the rules"
Your daughter-in-law did marry an american citizen, did she not? And it's huge difference between getting legal status in USA by getting married to a citizen and getting legal resident's status while working for an american employer. There are huge percentage of highly educated people out there getting their work visa's extended year after year while waiting for becoming legal residents. And sometimes it takes up to 10 years. And you are willing to wait if you come from 3-rd world's countries and you would do anythikng to stay here but if you are fom Europe in most cases - you woun't. And America is losing out on workforce and productivity by making legal immigration a very long and complex process.
As for illegal aliens from Mexico & South America - it's natural that people try to find better lives and try to provide their children with more opportunities than what they had - which one of you wouldn't do the same thing had you been born in some of the places you don't bother to read about...
I'm not saying that to enter and stay in the country illegaly is right, but if there is shortage in some areas (and there is otherwise illegal immigrants wouldn't be here, right?) why not to make it more possible for people to enter legally, work legally, pay taxes, be part of society??? Maybe because there are bunch of individuals who benefit from the current situation on the expenses of hard-working people who would work long hours, wouldn't complain and would obay their employers? Just some information about illegal vs legal immigration benefits:
http://www.ilw.com/articles/2007,0815-hanson.shtm
But maybe this whole thing is just pathway for North American Union when Mexico, USA and Canada will be one united block, Globalization of North America where there will be no borders, where your status woun't matter and where the strongest ones will survive...just like Darwin said!
As for the presidental candidates - everyone is tired of what is happening right now - people want to see changes and having a woman in the white house would be a great change (by the way lots of women would wote for a woman just because...)!
Posted by: la terra | December 13, 2007 5:56 PM
I say give them a SSN, bring them into the legit work force, tax them, let them help with the tax burden.
Bonus points;
- they get their own SSN they are not trying to get yours.
-we will shortly need human pollinators to replace the bees
- they actually want to work hard at jobs that would kill most 'virtual Americans'
Posted by: C.Morris | December 13, 2007 6:19 PM
Darwin does not enter in to the picture when you are giving entitlements to those that are weak. This is the reverse of Darwinism, where the strong survive. In the case of illegals, we are giving the weak an opportunity to survive, when otherwise they would not. Close the border and let the system run by itself and you would find that Americans WILL do the jobs that illegals are taking today....as they did in the past when the wages provided by these same jobs were decent (for example in the housing construction industry, which has been trashed by illegals in the past decade).
Posted by: David | December 13, 2007 6:31 PM
"Those countries in Latin America that you are crying crocodile tears over are wealthy. "
You're kidding, right?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita
Per the IMF numbers, the US per capita GDP is $43,223
The highest in Latin America is Argentina at 16,080, less than a third of the US.
Mexico comes in at $11,369 26% of the US.
These are numbers that have been adjusted to account for differences in cost of living.
These are not wealthy countries.
In addition, are you historically ignorant enough to believe that the US has not exploited the resources of Latin America for it's own benefit? Ever hear of the United Fruit Company?
But at least the Native Americans will be happy to hear that you support having the US Government pay them reparations for looting their lands, and the African Americans will like the reparations for Slavery that the government will pay them at your request.
Posted by: JT | December 13, 2007 6:33 PM
David,
'Social Darwinism' was not proposed by Darwin as part of his scientific thesis.
Social Darwinism was made up by social reactionaries.
Posted by: C.Morris | December 13, 2007 9:06 PM
I know that most people probably don't care what I say but I agree with C. Morris. If they really want to come over here to make a life and a living for themselves and their families, then let them. I understand that illegal immigrants don't pay taxes but they aren't the only ones. People are always getting in trouble for tax evasion. Also most immigrants work really hard at the jobs that they manage to find because unlike some people, they actually care about their job and they can't afford to be unemployed. I understand that they should do it legally but do any of you have any idea how long it takes to get a green card? It took one of my friends 7 years to get one. Most of the illegal immigrants can't wait that long to come over.
Posted by: Alli M. | December 13, 2007 9:15 PM
If the Politicians had obey our Constitution and laws the illegal aliens would not be in this country to prey on American citizens When politician start picking and choosing which parts of our Constitution and Laws they enforce then they are openly encouraging lawless. Illegal Aliens every year kill more American citizens than are killed by terrorist in the last 10 years combined, while raping, and robbing tens of thousands more. Both parties have contributed to this slaughter of our citizens and the impact of millions of uneducated peons and criminals pouring across our open borders. They are destroying our health care system, our schools, our judicial system, our environment, welfare system. adding to energy use, pollution, water use and driving our standard of living down. While driving up our taxes, insurance rates, welfare cost and tax receipts down.
Mexican and Latin American citizens have for hundreds of years lived in a society where corruption, crime, poverty, misery, anti-education and hate for American and the rule law of law is normal. Should anyone be surprised they bring those same values across the border with them? If government refuses to protect its citizens and abide by its own laws and Constitution can citizens be blamed for taking the law into their hands?
Posted by: Bl | December 13, 2007 9:22 PM
I am not hispanic, but I'm am opposed to treating undocumented immigrants inhumanely. If they have a record of good conduct and show evidence of being good citizens, they should be given the privilege of a "fast track" to citizenship.
The history of this country has been adherring to a policy of protecting human rights.
Posted by: charlesclarknovels | December 13, 2007 11:22 PM
The Pew Hispanic Center poll has more details that seem to influence this.
For instance,
Impact of Ilegal immigrants on hispancs
Foreign Born Neg Noeffect Pos
Spanish dominant 10 17 62
bilingual/English 20 23 47
Native born
Bilingual/Spanish 20 25 49
English dominant 38 20 34
Posted by: win | December 14, 2007 12:40 AM
"Poll: Hispanics mostly oppose crackdown on illegals"
No S***, Dick Tracy!!
Posted by: syj | December 14, 2007 11:41 AM
If government refuses to protect its citizens and abide by its own laws and Constitution can citizens be blamed for taking the law into their hands?
Posted by: Bl | December 13, 2007 9:22 PM
Let the Pogroms begin!
A new Kristallnacht is not far off. Those who have raised the level of rhetoric to this level and have demogogued this issue will have blood on their hands.
Posted by: JT | December 14, 2007 12:59 PM
Texas Senator Hutchinson's Amendment to stop construction of border fence!
After the Secure Fence Act of 2006 was signed into law by President Bush in October 2006, millions of Americans had a right to expect a double-layer fence would be built along our border with Mexico," Elliott said.
"Now, if the Senator Kay Baily Hutchison amendment gets signed into law that fence is never going to be built," he said.
Elliott said the language of the amendment from Hutchison (S. Amdt. 2466) specifically would exempt the Department of Homeland Security from having to build any fence at all.
The Hutchison amendment reads, in part, " … nothing in this paragraph shall require the Secretary of Homeland Security to install fencing, physical barriers, roads, lighting, cameras, and sensors in a particular location along an international border of the United States, if the Secretary determines that the use or placement of such resources is not the most appropriate means to achieve and maintain operational control over the international border at such location."
Demand Sen. Hutchinson rescind this Amendment, before its too late! She must be pandering to the globalist, open-border, free market agenda. Already taxpayers are supporting millions of illegal foreign nationals.
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Posted by: Brittanicus | December 14, 2007 11:48 PM
People who break the law SHOULD be afraid of getting caught. Illegal immigrants are criminals and they should fear getting caught just like any other criminal. Newsflash: Being "on the run" from the law makes life difficult.
http://www.smarterthanthem.com
Posted by: Chase | January 25, 2008 11:08 PM
Well, what do you know. Hispanics are already acting like the current Republican administration. Trying to influence policy by FEAR. While a whopping 25% of hispanics are illegal, you have to be a CITIZEN naturalized or otherwise to vote, so after you weed out the temporary visa holders, permanent resident aliens and those who don't care (just like other americans), you're left with a small hispanic voting sector who came to America for the American dream. AND to that latter group, I say welcome, but open your eyes... If you don't get on board and stop supporting illegal immigration, the US will become just like the poverty stricken nightmare you left behind. If you don't believe it, just go visit a "day labor" station in SoCal.
Posted by: Chase | January 25, 2008 11:14 PM