The right will never go for this. Remember...a ship with 4 smokestacks could never sink.

Numbers,we don't need no stinkin numbers.

Sissy Sean Hannity says the Bush economy is booming.

TRICKLE DOWN.FOOL ME ONCE SHAME ON ME,FOOL ME TWICE,SHAME ON ME!!!!1

Rips his legacy? Bush makes Nixon look like an altarboy!

Stick It To Him, Rahm!

From the internet (s):

Every person who voted for George W Bush owes the American people an apology. Those who realize their mistake shall be forgiven. However, any person who still identifies with today's Republican Party is quite frankly either a moron, unconscionable, and/or unAmerican. They should be shunned and shamed.

What hath Republicans wrought?

A nine trillion dollar debt.
3 and a half bucks a gallon.
Usurious credit card interest rates.
Gouged student loan rates of over 8 percent.
Colleges that people can't afford.
Variable mortgage rates going through the roof.
Millions of jobs sent overseas.
Health Care costs up nearly doubled in 7 years.

And that's just a starter's list.

Nearly 4000 dead American soldiers because of a lie.
Nearly 40,000 seriously wounded American soldiers because of a lie.
The ignoring of Osama Bin Laden.
China owning our debt.
Foreign policy being dictated by Saudi Arabia.
More terrorism than ever before.

But there's more.

Selling out our public parks from underneath us.
Carte blanche to big polluters.
bridges falling,
cities drowning,
levees collapsing,
people dying.

But there's more.

Wages declining,
pensions raided,
interest rising,
savings dwindling,
courts overrun by radicals,
stocks crashing,
energy bills through the roof.

But there's more.

Plamegate, Iraqgate, IgnoreOsamaGate, TalibanGate, Attorneygate, Wiretappinggate, Torturegate, Spygate, Emailgate, Irangate, WMDGate, Rovegate, Libbygate, Enrongate, EnergyGate, and dozens of other gates.

The theme is simple. Republicans/Conservatives have almost destroyed America and the rest of us WILL fix their mess so long as these Republicans stay the hell out of the way. Sound bites such as Republican Recession, Ignoring Osama, and Destroying the Economy should be commonly used.

America can only be destroyed from right wing conservatives within. Let's make sure we don't let them destroy this country. Let's relegate them to 4th party gadflies and treat them the way they deserve to be treated.

They're still saying that the economy is "essentially sound" except they don't say that sound is a moan.

Gosh, and here I expected Rahm Emmanuel to come out with a great favorable report about President Bush. Oh, you might want to tell Mr. Emmanuel that President Bush is not running for reelection. But, forget it, Rahm will probably find out by November.

Wait, jdyslien, pillow, rncbruce and terrybull haven't chimed in to shoot the messenger, blame Carter and Clinton, attack the welfare queens, trot out the tired "liberal media" myth and call us loony lefties yet. Soon as they do you'll know these numbers are spot on.

Oh, you might want to tell Mr. Emmanuel that President Bush is not running for reelection. But, forget it, Rahm will probably find out by November.

Posted by: Rosetta | January 23, 2008 3:37 PM

Except for the fact that Bush clone 1, 2, and 3 are running. Not to mention that the entire republican party touted Bush as a great leader. I would think that would put a little doubt that republicans really have a clue.

to john e

what a useless rant - the only thing you portray with any accuracy is that the bush administration has many sins -- but so dammmm what -- he isn't running for anything while the clintons with their many, many sins of the same kind you describe as well ARE running and many of what you list started and/or escalated on their watch

some of what you say is most assuredly bush's fault

sadly though on many of the the things you cite, bill clinton was as much or more guilty

such as usury,
ignoring osama bin laden,
spending american lives in a pointless foreign war (and then his wife hilLIARy voted for yet another war), giving our economy away to the chinese government, mega-mergers, enron, abuse of power for personal gain

clinton's evil also made nixon look angelic - yet you choose to ignore truth when it might alter your delusional paradigm

if you like facts and think your list to be full of things that, when true speak to traits of a poor leader then you cannot possibly defend clinton nor support hilLIARy

but you are probably just as big a liar as she is and therefore will simply put party games ahead of your country and ahead of truth

as an independent I can stick with truth alone - you have sold your ability to be honest to a political party - shame on you

bush HAS done a lot of bad things - I can admit it

clinton did a lot of similarly bad things, too and some worse and he is trying to put his surrogate wife back in power as we speak (just like george c wallace did in alabama to circumvent that constitution)

a good man can admit both

bush isn't running in 08

nepotistic hilLIARy is

john e - try to be a man and stand up against hilLIARy

what are you afraid of -- a woman ????? or just afraid of clintons ????? or afraid of truth ??? how about all of the above ????

ultimately the revisionism of john e will fail

Rosetta, while it is true that "W" is not running again, the Republican congressional representatives that gave him a free pass to work his economic destruction against the nation are running again. I'm not likely to forget who supported this second coming of Reaganomics into America.

Posted by: tom | January 23, 2008 4:13 PM

John E,

Skip this fool. This "independent's" motto "Anybody but Clinton" means he'd rather vote Bush than vote for Clinton. Recognize the desperation? "Reasonable" "Neutral" "Independent thinking" Republican in Sheeps clothing.

Who has a strange fixation with gollums. He must hate his reflection in the mornings.

Nice post John E.
I think he may deserve a stay at a little federal farm--or something in The Netherlands.

"RAHL SPEAKS"

MY NUMBERS DON'T COUNT.

FISA BILL - BUSH 2 DEMOCRATS 0

PATRIOT ACT BUSH 4 DEMOCRATS 0

5 EMERGENCY SPENDING BILLS
WORHT BILLIONS FOR A "PHONY ACHIEVEMENT" BUSH 5 DEMOCRATS AND THIS CONGRESS 2

SO TALK IS CHEAP!

Let's review what Clintoon left Bush with in 2001:
1. An economy in recession.
2. A stock market in the midst of a crash. The beginning of 2000, the NASDAQ was nearing 5,000 by the end of 2000 it had fallen to less than 3,000.
3. No response to any terrorist act by Al Qaeda, only emboldening bin Laden and his gang.
4. Pardons of some of the most wanted criminals in the world.
5. Executive orders that only impaired the U.S. economy for years to come, such as limiting our ability to attain our own energy, thereby making us more reliant on foreign energy.

The Little Ballet Dancer, as usual, uses "numbers' to distort and the media lapdogs of the DNC (of which the LIBune is bought and paid for by the DNC) are only willing to comply.

Sam Zell, CLEAN HOUSE NOW!!

what are you afraid of -- a woman ????? or just afraid of clintons ????? or afraid of truth ??? how about all of the above ????
ultimately the revisionism of john e will fail

Posted by: tom | January 23, 2008 4:13 PM

tommy,

Prez Chimpy is STILL THE PRESIDENT, Bill Clinton has been out of office for SEVEN YEARS, get over it.

The Wingnuts have a bunch of Bush clones running, I think that says it all about how many "new idea's" the GOPers might have, N O N E..

http://photobucket.com/mediadetail/?media=http%3A%2F%2Fi199.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Faa263%2Fimplaus1ble%2Fbush_dude.jpg&searchTerm=george%20bush&pageOffset=3

P S - Didn't you used to call yourself an "Independent"?

3's & 7's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqUiPtG_Rdw

Bush you can lie, lie to my face,
Tell me it ain't no thing,
That's what I wanna hear.
Take, a lie to the grave,
That's what and old friend told me,
Look at what it did for Reagan.

The truth hurts so bad, wouldn't you say?
So why tell it?
If ignorance is bliss,
Then you're in heaven now.

Run, you'll never escape,
You see you go nowhere (so new you appear),
Broke, laid to waste,
Turn into sweet nothings,
That kiss you goodbye.

The truth hurts so bad, wouldn't you say?
So why tell it?
If ignorance is bliss,
Then I'm in heaven now.

You keep doin' it over and over again,
The neve rending places I never been
I'm catching on Georgie boy, I'm calling your bluff,
The devil made me, only we never met,
Watch you do is say it with a smile boy George,
Makin' us all forget

Tom --
While I share your pain about some of the dreadful things that went on during the Clinton Administration, I will help make this easy for you:

1.) Hillary sux. There are three other Democratic candidates. Choose a better one.
2.) The roots and mindset of the "legacy" that this chart represents is still festering and rotting in the minds and COngressional seats of the many Repub candidates that made it all possible during the MAJORITY of the time they controlled this low-rated Congress. These bozos ARE running -- hopefully for the border this time (where hopefully they will be met with a wall and barbed wire, and left to roam the desert until they evaporate).
--One Angry Citizen--

Republican National Committee spokesman Chris Taylor responds with this: "If only Rahm Emanuel would put as much effort into finding bi-partisan solutions to America's problems as he does into these political attacks, maybe then he wouldn't be leading the lowest rated Congress in history."

--

In fairness, Chrissy, if Rahm and the Dems had the guts to impeach Murderer Bush it would probably become the highest rated Congress in history. You know that, but as a Republicant you were of course born without "honesty" or "integrity" genes and thus cannot really be blamed for telling a misleading half-truth.

I'm not likely to forget who supported this second coming of Reaganomics into America.

Posted by: desert jim | January 23, 2008 4:24 PM

Exactly. We 'elect' another Republican and they'll just do it again.

Desert Jim, thanks for reminding us of Reaganomics that did so much to boost the U.S. economy after the Carter financial disaster. Oh, did you notice the Wall Street surge today? Or the fact that your Democrats are supporting President Bush in his economic rescue package? Of course not.

tom (little t?)

Who's the liar, besides the lie that you're an "independent?
Clinton didn't "ignore" OBL and came closer than anyone to taking him out. You and the party of unaccountability can't handle that 9/11 happened 8 month's into Bush's watch. Dubya and Condi also ignored specific warnings of a 9/11 type attack. Yeah, Bush isn't running in '08 and, for your information, Clinton has been out of office for 7+ years. Find a new scapegoat, tom little timbits, md.

Hillary voted to give Bush authorization to go to war, a mistake in my opinion, but not the same as endorsing the war. Dems still pleaded for political solution, warned Bush not to rush to war. He chose that avenue himself. He's not man enough, nor are you, to admit it was a mistake.

"Clinton's evil"?..please! There's proof right there you're no Indie. Independents don't use evangenut-speak.

Rosetta,
Rudy--stay the course
McCain--stay the course
Romney--stay the course

Who says Bush isn't running in '08? The only one not calling for same old, same old is Ron Paul, and he's a long shot.

Chris Taylor calling for bi-partisan solutions? That's rich, coming from the party that played scorched-earth politics for six years. Not only didn't they work with Dems, they locked them out of discussions altogether. Republicrits are all the same.

Raul - figures can lie and liars figure.

Line Item by line item:

1) Bill Clinton inherited a recovery economy and gave Bush43 an economy 39 days from a recession.

2) No apologies for the wastefule domestic spending over the past 7 years (that includes this past year under Speaker Botox)

3) Raul, why only the last three years of the Clinton administration? That is because ol' Bill didn't even believe that his tax increase to all Americans would balanace the budget. He gets those surpluses due to American capitalism with help from Speaker Gingrich.

4) How many jobs in the private sector does any POTUS create?

5) Population in 2000 was 281,000,000 for a poverty rate of 11.25%. In 2007 population was 301,000,000 for a poverty rate of 12.13%. That doesn't take into account the illegal immigration problem.

6) Raul - why only two years of an eight year administration mentioned?

7) How has the gov't done in controlling the health care costs of its employees? The federal gov't should be large enough to self-insure. Also, part of that inflation is also an increase in the quality of care - think increased cancer survivors.

9) I guess ol' Raul has never heard of supply and demand. China and India economy takes off - demand. Liberals take potential sources for future supply - supply.

10) Increased education costs - isn't that an institution run primarily by liberals?

11 & 12) These are matters of the individual, not the POTUS.

13) Large piece of this oil - see #9. Also, what was the trade deficit when Bill Clinton took office?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE5D6173CF93AA25751C0A965958260

The trade deficit quadrupled under President Clinton.

15)President Clinton did nothing to fight terrorism and his "peace dividend" was to reduce troop strength.

16) See # 9

17) Cleaning up the Clinton Administration, of which Rahm was a slimy part of, messes that were puinted down the road.

Great Britain - the lefty loons have taken over.
Indonesia - largest muslim nation - do you expct different.
Turkey - see Indonesia, only smaller.
Germany - part of the oil for food scandal so they wouldn't part take in any action against Iraq. Howver, the German view will trend-up in the next 10 months.

Johnny Propane,

You're an even bigger liar than Bush. Even after the Tech. bust (which was helped along by Bush's friend, Ken Lay, and others of his ilk), Bush was handed a budget surplus, Clinton was paying down the national debt. The Bush administration's answer to the downturn--make the rich, filthy rich, juice the economic engine to help the top 1%. You know, if you give the horse enough oats, maybe a little will "pass through" for the sparrows. Yes, the Middle Class are the sparrows, and Keynes "horse and oats" analogy is another way of describing "trickle-down", which is a proven fraud.

No response to Al Qaeda? That's an outright lie. Didn't Clinton have a little cruise missile party that OBL was supposed to be invited too? Who's watch did 9/11 occur on? If OBL was so easy to take out, shouldn't 8 months have been long enough? Why did Bush ignore the intelligence?

Clinton pardoned some of the most wanted criminals in the world?...PLEASE! And speaking of most wanted criminals, where's THE most wanted, OBL? Lost mister "dead or alive" at Tora Bora, did we? And now all the Reich radio pundits and their parrots can say is, "Yeah, but he's in some cave at 20,000 feet, so who cares, he's irrelevant"? How lame is that, the man who is responsible for 4,000 murders in N.Y., and is an enduring symbol of the "Islamic Jihad against America?

Executive orders hampering our ability to get energy. Give me a break. The most important measures we could have taken to relieve our independence on foreign oil; conservation, investment in alt. energy, the oil lobby, the auto lobby and republicans, fought every step of the way. Now that our glutinous consumption, a destabilized middle east and increased world demand for oil have sent energy prices soaring, it's all Clinton's fault. Bush had seven years to come up with an energy policy. What was it, invite the energy lobby over to Dick's place to write it so as to protect their interest. And who's benefiting now, Dyslin? Yeah, the guys who wrote legislation to favor big coal, and big oil, and George of Arabia's buddies.

And then the last refuge of the rapture-ready sheeple, it's the media's fault. What a bunch of whiny babies you are. Your "team" screws up the economy, gets us into an unnecessary war, pooh pooh's conservation of resources, bankrupts the country, and now it's everyone else's fault. You have the Presidency, you had the Congress, you had the Courts (and still do), you politicized the DOJ, so you had them hacking for ya too. Total control, yet it's all the boogy man's fault.

And the media, sorry Johnny boy, overwhelmingly owned and operated by Republicans. The Bush Administration has not accepted responsibility for one single misstep, not one. Not only is it the worst administration in history, it is the most cowardly and unaccountable. What was it Bush said, "we will not distinguish between the terrorist and those that harbor them"?, something like that. Well, we liberals won't distinguish between the criminals who perpetrated this calamity on the American people, and their apologist.

(Apologies to Sheryl Crow)

I am strong
I am able
I watch Fox on the cable
Then I cry like a baby
See if Daddy will save me

I am sweet
I am smirky
I am mean if you irk me
I try hard just to screw you
When I say I don’t mean to

I dress up like a primate
The "Decider" incarnate
I say all the right things
I don’t know what I mean

Am I
Am I
Getting through
Am I
Am I
Getting through

I am ignorant and rude
I am fashionably crude
And sometimes when it’s late
I watch "Girls on Spring Break"

I speak only to veterans
I don't want no dissention
I am scared that I’m weird
I’m afraid I'll be jeered

I am chimpy and weak
I am foul when I speak
I am strange when I’m kind
I am frying my mind

Am I
Am I
Getting through
Am I
Am I
Getting through
I don’t care I don’t care

Jesus loves me I know
For my mom told me so
I’m a loser repub
I’m a shrub in the mud

Am I
Am I
Getting through
Am I
Am I
Getting through
Am I
Am I
Getting through

Part II

Don’t you hate it
When the money starts to running out
This war you waged
We have no way of getting out
You cooked intel to make the case for "shock and awe"
And now this war's a chapter in "The Monkey's Paw"
And the blames on you
That’s what they say
That’s what they say
When the pages fade
the lies you made
Will haunt you 'till
Your dying day

Ter,

When Barack Hussein Obama is sworn in a year from now, what wise economic advice will you give him?

He will inherit record deficits, trillions of dollars of debt, a recession that will rival only the late 80's and the Great Depression, a housing crisis where home values will have fallen 20-30% on average, failed international policy with failed wars on at least two fronts, undoubtedly mass unemployment due to the above (real unemploynemt, not bush-cooked-books), and a cost of living index never before seen?

Should everyone just invest wisely in mid-cap stocks?

Once again the wing nut sheep line up to defend W,even though the numbers are staggering.

BAHABAHABAHABAHA Little Sheep.

Terry:

4) How many jobs in the private sector does any POTUS create?

I think the Military-Industrial-Complex qualifies as the private sector, so I'd say Bush has created a sh%#load there. Bravo, George of Arabia!

"Clinton did nothing to fight terrorism"--a filthy lie! But, Bush certainly has increased the terrorist threat several fold. Boy George, chief recruitment tool for OBL.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/roberts/roberts125.html

Speaking of the world's most wanted man (John D. thinks it's Marc Rich), the favorite to win best documentary at the Sundance Film Festival is "Where in the World is Osama bin Laden?" It should be out soon at your local video store.

Econodud,

Please show me the stats from the recession of the late 80's - I missed that one.

Housing prices have fallen, after they had risen astronomically - its called a bubble. Remember the NASDAQ in 2000?

War on terror is being won on two fronts.

Unemployment at that high rate of 5% - please show me the "cooked" figures. Also, show with me that cost of living index that you rant about.

I'd mix up the mid-caps with some value stocks, growth stocks and throw in some Russell 5000's.

My advice for the next president -

cut domestic spending,

keep President Bush's tax cuts,
finish the war on terror in Iraq and Afghanistan so troops can home and spending can be reduced,

lower the corporate income tax rate so American corporations can compete more effectively,

fix social security by gradually privatizing it

dts,

that gov't spending is for one of the purposes of a federal gov't - common defense of this country.

As far as OBL, we know he is not being handed to us by Sudan, he's not danicing free in Afghanistan - my guess he's holed up in a cave at 15,000 feet in NW Pakistan.

What a shock, a film festival going to award a film that bashes President Bush. Will there be a prequel to the 9-11 about the 8 yrs of President Bill "the punter" Clinton? Wait there has been - its called the path to 9-11. See if you can get that a video store? Wait, the Clintons are supressing the distribution of that DVD.

You should apologize to Chreyl "one square" Crow.

The problem is Rahm Emanuel won't go far enough in ripping apart this sham of a president.

At least it's a start.

I like your posts, dt. You sent John D back on his rear.
As for Chris Taylor, that was a rebuttal? He didn't deny a single number. That must be because they're all true.
Bush isn't running in '08? Maybe so, but his horse, Romney, is in the race. Too bad the public doesn't like Mitt, especially the evangelicals. Notice how the right wing media hides the fact that Romney is Bush's boy?
My prediction: Mitt will start winning some primary states under some questionable vote tallies that don't jibe with the exit polls. There will be no recounts.

"3. No response to any terrorist act by Al Qaeda, only emboldening bin Laden and his gang."

dt did a good job of rebutting most of Dyslin's silliness (its like a character from a stupid horror movie- just when you think you've beat some sense into it it comes back louder and armed with new variations of old lies), but I enjoy this new hyperbolic improvement over previous arguments that Clinton didn't do enough to try to catch Bin Laden.

Now Dyslin, in his pathetic, childish desperation, has gone one step further, stating that NO action was ever taken against Al Qaeda. That must have really shocked all the Republicans in Congress who fought every Clinton anti-terrorism intiative tooth-and-nail, going so far as accusing Mr. Clinton of "wagging the dog" to distract from the Lewinsky testimony when he A) responded to the Embassy bombings with cruise missile attacks and B) stepped up pressure on Saddam Hussein to disarm.

http://thinkprogress.org/2006/09/25/wag-the-dog/

This ones for Trickle Down Terry. Its a conservative response to Clinton's saber-rattling against Iraq in 1998. You'll note now that Terry gleefully uses Clinton's words, heavily condemned at the time by Republicans, to make his case for why Democrats believed attacking Iraq was the right thing to do. Unfortunately, his heroes were on the wrong side of the issue back then, arguing the opposite case, so anyone with a bit of credibility would acknowledge that they now accept those statements as gospel because it NOW aligns with their political goals.

http://www.conservativeusa.org/wagdog.htm

http://www.cnsnews.com/indepth/archive/199812/IND19981217g.html

Note in this link that 30% of Americans considered the assault on Saddam to be politically motivated. Ironically, that is the same 30% that supported impeachment and the same 30% who still support President Bush and the war he made based on Clinton-era assumptions, decried vociferously at the time by THE VERY SAME KNUCKLE-DRAGGERS.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9607/30/clinton.terrorism/

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2006/osama_bin_missing_whos_tried_hardest_to.html

Just wondering, since Republicans with a straight face argue that we were attacked again and again under Clinton (overseas, that is), why are the London and Madrid and Iraq bombings not considered "attacks" by the very same Republicans? Convenience, I'm assuming. And a lack of interest in truth in favor of truthiness.

I mean this in all seriousness- if President Bush was serious about catching Bin Laden, he would be sending armed Predator drones over the tribal regions of Pakistan each and every day, until the six and a half foot tall "Sheik" shows his face, upon which he would be immediately incinerated. I'm sick of the "what me worry" approach of the GOP to bringing to justice Public Enemy #1. Clearly, if it was that easy for Clinton to have done it, Mr. Bush has less than no excuse having been given full and complete Congressional support (as opposed to the endlessly hostile GOP Congress that accused Clinton of wagging the dog and sat on each of his terrorism initiatives, accusing him of overhyping the threat), essentially endless resources including the full force of the US military, and at least until he switched focus from the people who attacked us on 9/11 (Bin Laden/ Taliban in Afghanistan) to those who didn't (Saddam Hussein), he also had the full weight of world public opinion on his side. Seems like he had a whole lot more to work with than Mr. Clinton did, no? And yet he has still failed, and over a longer period of time as well.

Quit apologising for the Boy-King wingnuts! If Clinton failed at catching Bin Laden, Bush failed far worse. And it should be noted that, though the first WTC bombing took place 34 days after Clinton took office, us "loony lefties" don't lash out at George H W Bush to deflect from the fact that Clinton was in charge at the time.

Methinks the same standard should be applied to President Bush, who was in office EIGHT MONTHS before 9/11 and was given specific, "hair on fire" warnings of imminent attacks. It is well-documented that he did LITERALLY nothing to attempt to impede the attacks in any way.

That's a failure that falls on President Bush and only President Bush.

Bruce Y, dt did nothing of the sort. First of all Ken Lay and Enron had NOTHING to do with the tech crash of 2000. It did have everything to do with the fact that these tech companies who saw stock prices rise from $5 a share to $300 a share without ever making a profit.
As far as that little missile party Clintoon threw for OBL. Yeah, sending a couple of cruise missilesi into an EMPTY Al Qaeda training camp really scared the big guy.
In regard to energy, the Dems filibustered it for years under Bush because they want no U.S. energy creation: no drilling in ANWR, no drilling along the coasts (we'll leave that for the Cubans and Chinese to do), no getting oil from rocks, no more refineries, etc. Sorry, but conservation, while not a bad thing, does not accomplish nearly enough.
And in regard to the media, sorry but most surveys show it's about 85 percent Democratic. As far as donations are concerned, the Democratic party gets millions upon millions from Hollywood and the various media companies.

Great post, Jones. Dead on.

"Wag the Dog" ring a bell to any of you chickenhawks?

Jonsey,

As Commander-in-Chief, Bill Clinton had the role of leadership to do what was right to defend this nation. He had no leadership.

As far as the attacks of London, Madrid and Iraq are not Anerican interests - either here or overseas. England and Spain can speak for themselves, and they did by withdrawing.

It was a hell of a lot easier for Clinton since bin Laden was out in the open for 8 years, while bin Laden has been in hiding for the past 6+ years. Your drone example is easier said then done.

Do you need to see all the WMD quotes from the democrats? If Bill Clinton bombed Iraq in Dec, 1998 over WMDs - please tell me what happened to them? If you say they were destroyed - show proof and then explain why the dems were not trumpeting this in 2002 & 2003?

I do not blame Clinton for the 1993 WTC bombing, but then again, I don't blame Bush for the 2001 recession or 9-11. Just playing by the libs rules.

The only difference between the 1993 bombing and 9-11 is the degree of success the terrorists had.