'Iron my shirt' men removed from Clinton crowd

I wonder who those two guys were? Bruce? John D? Terry? Paulo?

I hope the morons with the t-shirts are seen on TV by their mothers, girlfriends/wives and other females in their lives and bear the consequences.

I take it back, these two give morons a bad name.

Paulo or Paula? Both of then can iron my shirt.

I didn't forget about you Bruce and John D. You can take my dry cleaning to the cleaners.

Completely with Hillary on this one. Those "men" need something called castration.

The problem is that Hillary has spent (and many, many others, men and women, have joined) her life fighting such people, and the scars show. She has somehow become the flash point for the non-trivial remaining recalcitrance of misogynists and low-brow sexists (and I include the backward-50's-macho-stupidity of curmudgeonly Harvard prof, Harvey "MANS"field here). I often agree with Hillary that there is a right wing conspiracy out to get her. But the fact is, many women have sacrificed more, fought with more integrity, and have more understanding of what a fair meritocracy looks like.

My MD mother, from the great-depression/ww2 generation, would make a better President than Hillary. There's nothing about gender or age or Bill Clinton or Obama preference in that opinion --that's just an objective assessment of the personal qualities.

Hillary is very much like the abolitionist, John Brown. The guy whose family tried to take an armory and start a war to free the slaves in 1859. You gotta love the sentiment, the symbolism, and the effort, but it will take more level heads to build a sustainable future we can all live in.

Paulo and Terry get my vote.

'two men'.

Yeah, real men. I bet they carry a tape measure around with them, just in case they have to prove something.

Hey boys, remember to call the doc if the sti##y persists more than 4 hours.

Dry cleaners lobbyists. Obviously sniffing too much starch.

Another staged event? wonder how much Penn paid 'em to do it. Will it distract from this morning's failed staged event?

Give everyone a break! First Hillary gets weepy in front of other women to play for the gender sympathy vote, then she plants two men in her audience with sexist t-shirts. She's gets more pathetic by the day.

Dan M,

They seem to suffer from an overdose of '24 Hour Martinizing' fumes.

Part of the VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY!

Classic Clinton theater, this can't be anything but a last minute, desperate political plant. First she sheds tears to show her sensitivity, then later in the day the homeboys make a scene so that she can give her pre-screened comeback... women are incensed... Hillary wins. Nice try, women aren't as stupid as Hillary makes us out to be.

Plant (s)

Can some-one say Cut - what a Joke - does she think were Dumb

I'm with you JS. An easy way to get media, sympathy and a standing O. After disparaging MLK's legacy earlier today, I don't put anything past her.

staged kthx

See video of her comments that LBJ was more important than MLK in getting civil rights.

http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/01/07/clinton-talks-tears-with-fox-news/

.... and then make them some brownies Hillary, they're getting the munchies from smelling the patchouli oil in the room.
....and don't cry, just iron and bake.

He actually was a plant. A bit too outrageous for me, but anything goes in these desperate political times, and one can never be too calculating.

Posted by: Paulo | January 7, 2008 10:50 PM

You are truly one of the most pathetic individuals on the face of this planet!

Ronald Loui, you really think that castration is apropos for a couple of yoyos? (acting on their own or staged)

Where's the bro with the taze when you need him.

Paulo,
Your comment is as disgusting this: "Get back in the field, nigger." Think about how appalling that is. You're just as bad. I can only hope that your ignorance dies with you someday and doesn't infect further generations.

I'm sorry, but those two are obviously a plant. She's losing, and the campaign knows it. Notice when she says, "Some people think they can bring about change", and on the word, "change", the men start yelling. She then asks if the lights can come up - why, so the cameras can see the sign better? - and then uses it to play the "sexism" card. Forgive me, but this is just a little too perfect, and I hope that thinking people will see through this to what it really is - a campaign trick. Seriously - think about this, people. Don't be stupid.

Awwwww BC,

A little frustrated that your girl is losing to a former admitted drug using, freshman senator with no experience. Kinda shows ya how weak she really is to fall to a turd like that.

Paulo

It's likely the whole episode was planned by the Clinton campaign. One of the two men was found to have a Clinton for President" sticker on his carrying case. See the following article at http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dc/2008/01/sexist-jamokes-disrupt-hillary.htm , in which it reports that, "Nick Gemelli, who is 21, and born at least a decade after “iron my shirts” was an anti-women’s rights slogan, didn’t have much of a rationale. “I just don’t think a woman should be President,” he said.

He couldn’t really say why, but he agreed that he was a health care voter, as the sticker on his carrying case implied. The “Hillary for President” sticker was a bit more of a puzzle."

It's likely the whole episode was planned by the Clinton campaign. One of the two men was found to have a Clinton for President" sticker on his carrying case. See the following article at http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dc/2008/01/sexist-jamokes-disrupt-hillary.htm , in which it reports that, "Nick Gemelli, who is 21, and born at least a decade after “iron my shirts” was an anti-women’s rights slogan, didn’t have much of a rationale. “I just don’t think a woman should be President,” he said.

He couldn’t really say why, but he agreed that he was a health care voter, as the sticker on his carrying case implied. The “Hillary for President” sticker was a bit more of a puzzle."

It's likely the whole episode was planned by the Clinton campaign. One of the two men was found to have a Clinton for President" sticker on his carrying case. See the following article at http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dc/2008/01/sexist-jamokes-disrupt-hillary.htm , in which it reports that, "Nick Gemelli, who is 21, and born at least a decade after “iron my shirts” was an anti-women’s rights slogan, didn’t have much of a rationale. “I just don’t think a woman should be President,” he said.

He couldn’t really say why, but he agreed that he was a health care voter, as the sticker on his carrying case implied. The “Hillary for President” sticker was a bit more of a puzzle."

I bet those two guys are single and living at home! hahaha. . .

Classic Clinton theater, this can't be anything but a last minute, desperate political plant. First she sheds tears to show her sensitivity, then later in the day the homeboys make a scene so that she can give her pre-screened comeback... women are incensed... Hillary wins. Nice try, women aren't as stupid as Hillary makes us out to be.

Posted by: Holy Gail | January 7, 2008 10:23 PM

You mean this was staged? The mind reels...

Obama 2008!!!

Hillary has been caught several times lately planting her people in the audiences of speeches & debates to ask her the questions she wants & has rehearsed her answers to-Some of them have posed as undecided voters-As a woman, I'm disgusted that she would pull this phony "iron my shirts" act-She is VERY determined to win, any way she can-It's all about her & she will try to lie, cheat & manipulate her way to the West Wing-

Does anyone with an IQ in double digits think those two "protesters" weren't a Hillary plant?

From a radio show in boston toucher and rich. Just a joke at hillary's expense.
Same people who held up the sign in atlanta

Would anyone put it past the Clintons to have "planted" those two men to drum up the women vote? I know I wouldn't.

Yes, it could have been staged, but I think it more likely that it was a couple of Huckabee supporters.

Turns out that the two hecklers were employed by a "shock-jock" radio station, and one of them had a "Hillary for President" sticker on his carrying case.

Can anyone say "Set up"?

See http://hotair.com/archives/2008/01/07/video-the-obligatory-iron-my-shirt-post
for more details.

I am a nobody but i feel a person has to have feelings to show it like Hillary did i have nothing but the shirt on my back basically but i am here to say Hillary has my vote if i vote.

Wow...all this hate from the right. They really do hate clinton. With all this hate, I have decided to vote for Hillary so the wingnuts can have a president they hate as much as I dislike Bush. Go Hillary.....

..and don't forget my lunch either. When I get home I want my dinner on the table. Go home, let the men handle this. In tribute to Tom Hanks - "you're crying?...There's no crying in politics".

Tears one day, then being "attacked by mean men". The Clinton phony theater get better and better. The signs were so big that they could not have gotten in (past secret service) without them being noticed and checked before. It is a great photo op to be the victim of mean men. Don't fall for this phoney stuff the Clintons pull. Looks lik the new tactic is to try to get a sympathy vote.

Give it up Hill - we just aren't that into you.

Why does it amaze me that the posters here have more facts about who these people are than the main stream media?

Those men may be sexist pigs, but they have a right to hold up their signs and chant a little. The same way i would not want police to escort me off the nation's capitol for holding an anti war poster, those men should not have been escorted out of the building. They should have stopped chanting, but escorting them out of the building before other attempts to silence them was very unreasonable.

Also, to all those hillary voters, rethink your choice before you hurt our country. Look at other candidates. Look at Obama.

These guys should be given a medal for having what it takes to piss off that lesbo.

Hillary SHOULD have ironed their shirts. While they were still wearing them.

The Iron My Shirt sign is an old joke. It doesn't surprise me Hilary hadn't heard it since most people in this country have no sense of humor anymore.

Evidence the whole thing was staged:

1. Hillary has a history of planting people in her own crowds for effect.

2. Hillary was totally nonchalant and unfazed by the demonstration. She didn’t even blink. Contrast that with prior televised episodes where she got flustered and or tongue-tied when answering her fellow Democrats in debates. It kind of makes you think she was expecting it.

3. As if on cue, she asked to have the lights turned up because, according to her, it was “awfully dark here for everybody,” which resulted in the message and the messengers being more fully observable to the rest of the crowd. Why didn’t she just ask for security?

4. In response to the heckler, she deadpans the statement, “Oh, the remnants of sexism, alive and well tonight” – without an ounce of emotion. (Subtext: I’m tough.) And she did so before most everyone else there could have seen the hecklers’ signs, t-shirts, or have draw a message of “sexism” from the hecklers’ mantra of “iron my shirt.” (And see # 7, below.)

5. She didn’t miss a beat in tying the incident into her pitch as to why she ought to be elected President, and why it is so hard for her (the sub-text being: vote for me, I’m an oppressed woman). She even made fun of it – which is totally out of character.

6. One of the two hecklers escorted out by security had a “Hillary for President” sticker.

7. The slogan, “Iron my shirts” is so old, as anti-women’s rights slogans go, that only Hillary could have remembered it.

8. The slogan, itself, is so tame and so ready for prime time TV that Hillary could easily take advantage of it for mass media propaganda purposes.

She is such a phony. Foisting such crass stupidities on the voting public is a horrible insult. She is getting desperate, and it shows.

Staged. Period.

How come the Clinton's can get our constitution rights of free speech suspended and no one thinks anything of it. If the same thing happened during a McCain speech, the media would have a field day with it! I don't care what the rules are but I do care that they apply to everyone equally!

John W, if you consider that analysis "evidence" as an attorney you really should be disbarred.

Did you get all your proof from Rush?

If anyone believes this is real and not a staged event then I have some swamp land available in Washington D.C. to sell to them. Nice try Clintons. First it's a staged question, fake crying, staged "Iron my Shirt" guys to provoke women into voting for her and then there's Bill Clinton trying the shrapnel approach at bashing Obama. What zany thing will the Clinton camp try next?! Unbelievable.

John W, if you consider that analysis "evidence" as an attorney you really should be disbarred.

Did you get all your proof from Rush?

Posted by: AJF | January 8, 2008 1:26 PM

AJF:

1. I never listen to Rush. Period.

2. I watched the video of the incident and the Democratic Debates. I have also read newspaper reports concerning the heckling incident, as well those regarding her “planting” escapades. I drew my own conclusions.

3. I am right.

4. Disbarment, as a remedy, is limited to those instances when an attorney has been found guilty of a crime of moral turpitude, or has engaged in an act, or series of act, which demonstrates his/her unfitness to practice law, such as where his/her behavior results in prejudice to the interests of a client.

5. You are ignorant.

6. You are wrong – as usual.

Hillary is awesome! She is the ultimate woman. She represents the true American dream. Way to go! Anxiously waiting to see her as the U.S.A. President.

Don't read that far into it, folks - Adolfo and Intern Nick are from Boston's 104.1 WBCN's afternoon show, Toucher and Rich. They used to be down in Atlanta, and Rich was the guy a few years back who is known for holding up the same slogan at a feminist rally.

John w-

No my friend, you are ignorant of the actual facts (not something that ever stops you).

The two people in question work for a radio "shock jock" and have pulled this same stunt at a number of "feminist" events over the past few years.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/01/the_shock_heard.html

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/01/07/video-the-obligatory-iron-my-shirt-post/

Once again the facts show you to be in error.

I await your usual response the actual facts are not important to the argument.

Given that Ms. Clinton is a multimillionaire, and before that lived in the White House and Governor's Mansion with a full staff, I think it unlikely that she has ironed anything in years.

Swampies;

Is it just me, or has John W. 'morphed' from 'conservative voice of reason' into 'strident right wing ideologue' in his short time posting here?

Is it the same John W?

Funny thing about it being staged is that it wasn't. Atleast not by Hillary. I actually know Nick and he called me and my friends later that day to watch the News. God I love that kid. Let's put an end to woman suffrage once and for all!

god this is gonna be great

* * * * *

Once again the facts show you to be in error.

I await your usual response the actual facts are not important to the argument.

Posted by: AJF | January 8, 2008 4:59 PM

Neither the fact the hecklers work for a "shock jock," nor the fact that they have performed similar demonstrations in the past, disproves my theory. These facts merely give them "plausible deniability" – which is to say that Hillary could easily distance herself from them even if she did hire them. It doesn't change the fact the event appears to have been staged. Even the article from Hot Air, which you provided, agreed with my analysis to a large degree. A lot of other people here and elsewhere agree with me too. So, are you going to say that we are suffering some group psychosis?

Now if you pony up some evidence that neither Hillary nor anyone associated with her paid them or solicited their help, and/or other proof they did this all on their own, then you might have something. Then I could well conclude that it wasn’t staged. Until you do, I believe the totality of the circumstances I outlined demonstrate "probable cause" to believe the whole thing was staged. I mean, just go watch the video. It really, really looks staged.

Furthermore, I can add a circumstance # 9 to my list of circumstantial evidence that it was staged. That is, no reasonable observer could believe that those guys would be allowed to carry homemade signs like that, or anything else as big, without drawing the scrutiny of security personnel at the event. And then we are to believe those security personnel would allow signs like that into the auditorium? – especially when, according to Hillary, they contain such an obviously sexist message? That is really straining credulity.

Facts interest me very much. And you haven’t brought any of your own to disprove or rebut the theory that the even was staged. Nor, for that matter, have you bothered to dispute the correctness of any of the factors I cited, or their significance. So, where do YOU get off telling me “the actual facts [are] . . . not something that ever stops [me]”? You have to do more than say this to make it credible.

* * * * *

Posted by: TheReamer | January 8, 2008 5:12 PM

Are you saying that I have morphed into a right-wing ideologue just because I harbor a great distaste for Hillary and believe she is capable of low theater? There's no shortage of Democrats who feel and think the same way about her that I do. Just ask any one of Barak Obama's supporters. They'll tell you what's up with that.

"Somebody said to me the other day if there was ever a time for a woman president it's now because we're going to have to do a lot of cleaning. Grab your buckets, grab your brooms. We're going to have to do a clean sweep because there has been a culture of cronyism, corruption and incompetence."

-Sen. Hillary Clinton
"Clinton says `clean sweep' needed at White House"
Associated Press/wsvn.com
June 30, 2007
www.365Hillary.com

John W-

Did the guys get there in a black helicopter flown by the Knights Templar? That's the only thing missing from your conspiracy theory.

How do I provide evidence that there was no agreement between the Clinton campaign and them? How can anyone provide evidence that something like that didn't happen? For example, can you prove that you aren't making this allegation at the behest of another candidate?

These guys have done similar acts, in similar circumstances, multiple times in the past, quite independant of the Clinton campaign. The simplest and most logical conclusion is that this incident is a part of that pre-existing pattern of behavior, not some shadowy conspiracy.

The burden of proof is on the accuser to prove conspiracy John. That you really really think it looked staged doesn't carry a whole lot of weight. Where's your actual proof? Who witnessed any contact between those individuals and the Clinton campaign? Where's your actual evidence of a connection between the parties.

Your "probable cause" would get laughed out of any court room in a heart beat by any judge who wasn't as blinded by distaste for Hillary Clinton as you are.

But thank you for once again showing that the actual facts never impact your arguement.

AJF:

You said:

Did the guys get there in a black helicopter flown by the Knights Templar? That's the only thing missing from your conspiracy theory.

You can’t argue with facts, so you resort to personal attacks. Why black helicopters and Knights Templar? Why not ask me if I got this info from the tin-foil receiver in my hat? It’s an ad hominem argument to which only you would stoop.

Then you said:

How do I provide evidence that there was no agreement between the Clinton campaign and them? How can anyone provide evidence that something like that didn't happen? For example, can you prove that you aren't making this allegation at the behest of another candidate?

You mean you don’t know how to look for evidence? You get a detective, find these guys and interview them. Then you do the same with people in the Clinton camp. In short, you find this evidence by going to where it most likely exists. There are lots of times that people are called upon to prove a negative, and they do it by digging up evidence in exactly this manner.

Then you state:

These guys have done similar acts, in similar circumstances, multiple times in the past, quite independent of the Clinton campaign.

Which is exactly why they would be the perfect people to do the job for Hillary Clinton, to make her look good.

- to which you added:

The simplest and most logical conclusion is that this incident is a part of that pre-existing pattern of behavior, not some shadowy conspiracy.

This is one reasonable conclusion, but not the only one possible. Consider again the fact that Hillary and her camp admittedly planted people in crowds before; they staged these plants to interact with Hillary; and they did it to make her look good. Staging the event with the “Iron my shirt” hecklers would be a difference of degree, but not of kind, from those prior, staged events. The fact she has already stooped to such crass theatrics before reasonably demonstrates a signature, modus operandi and that staging the event wasn’t beneath her or improbable.

Then you say:

The burden of proof is on the accuser to prove conspiracy John. That you really really think it looked staged doesn't carry a whole lot of weight. Where's your actual proof? Who witnessed any contact between those individuals and the Clinton campaign? Where's your actual evidence of a connection between the parties.

Evidence is either direct or circumstantial. Either kind will do. Start adding up the unusual and improbable circumstances of the event, and the likelihood of it being the product of independent, non-cooperative forces becomes exceedingly small.

We already know Hillary has staged stuff like this before. It is neither unlike her nor beneath her to do so. We also know security personnel admitted these hecklers into the auditorium although they were carrying large, home-made signs, and specially made t-shirts, all of which read, “Iron My Shirt.” A blind person could tell right away these signs were not pro-Hillary, and that admitting these guys with their signs and t-shirts was flirting with disaster.

Next we see an improbable sequence of events after these guys start heckling and waving their signs. What does Hillary do? Does she call for security? No. Does she object to the heckling? No. She calmly asks for someone to turn the lights on because it is dark; and not just for her, but for everyone there. She wants everyone to see these guys and their message. And then, on cue, the lights go on. However, before anyone can blink, she has already determined that their message was sexist. At that point, she calmly launches into a well organized, articulate spiel about sexism, and how, because of it, she has to break through the highest glass ceiling to get to be president. Not only does the incident maker her look good; not only is she more articulate and less shaken by the event than by any other negative confrontation during the campaign to date; the whole incident also fits, control-freak-perfect, into her stump speech.

In short, the events couldn’t have cooperated more with Hillary had she scripted them. Given her penchant for staged theatrics, the improbability these guys would have been admitted without some cooperation, and the improbability of her being able to spontaneously dovetail the event into a well oiled, articulate response which was totally out of character for her, the totality of the circumstances raise the reasonable inference that the event was scripted and staged.

Probable cause doesn’t require more.

Lastly, you state:

Your "probable cause" would get laughed out of any court room in a heart beat by any judge who wasn't as blinded by distaste for Hillary Clinton as you are.

That’s because you don’t know what probable cause is. It is not the evidence necessary to prevail at trial in either a criminal or civil case. It doesn’t even require proof that the truth of a factual proposition is “more likely than not.” It is merely that level of evidence that raises a reasonable probability that a fact is true. It is, in fact, the lowest level of proof in any legal proceeding.

I will leave of commenting on your last comment. It is beneath me to answer that attack again.

John W-

It's really quite sad. You've become the typical conspiracy theorist. Evidence shows up that disproves your theoryand your response is "Ahh, that's what they want you to think!"

Sorry, but there's no point in further arguement when you've moved that far beyond rationality. I'm in no way a Hillary fan, but the elaborate fantasy world you've created where the Clinton campaign has a secret alliance with feminist baiting shock jocks isn't going to be penetrated by reality.

Take a step back and try and regain you rationality my friend, but your anger and disdain for Hillary aside and I think you'll see how far you are reaching. Seriously, even Michelle Malkin accepts that it's a prank.

http://michellemalkin.com/2008/01/07/bs-alert-hillarys-iron-my-shirt-hecklers/

Maybe she's part of the conspiracy too.

I imagine who can fake a cry can fake anything.....

On the other hand I find all this BS a waste of time

just do PC based voting and who pays the top dollor will be elected by "majority" as the preseident.

It is less confusing for all of us

Interesting. Why were these guys removed by the cops? Why was their freedom of speech abridged?

AJF:

Your responses have been way over the top.

I merely suggest there is “evidence” that it was staged, and all of a sudden I am a loony-toon conspiracy nut. Let’s get this clear. I never said it was absolutely the case that it had to be staged. I just said there is some evidence that it was, and that the evidence raised a strong suspicion that yet another bit of Clinton’s Crass Low Theater occurred. I even said that I was open to evidence that I am wrong - or didn’t you see that?

I was just unimpressed with the so called evidence you forked up. I can accept the truth of everything you said, and still suspect it was a setup – because the facts you cited do not logically negate that possibility.

Then again, instead of arguing the facts and inferences to be drawn from them, you have stuck singularly to attacks against me, by impugning my mental health. In case you haven’t heard, resort to attacking the messenger is a desperate maneuver which often backfires.

I notice there are no fewer than thirteen other posters in this thread who expressed the idea that the event was staged – and most of them appeared more convinced than me. Yet I don’t see a word from you directed at them. That makes me think your responses to my posts were expressions of personal animosity. In light of the history of our interactions, it is not unreasonable to believe you have attacked me in this manner simply because you don’t like me.

So, to save for yourself the easy charge of hypocrisy, please stop using the expression “my friend” when you refer to me. Friends don’t unreasonably impugn the mental health of friends.

Since this plant worked so well for Clinton, I've heard rumblings that some of the other candidates are planning such hoaxes. Here's the inside scoop:

Huckabee:

Fleece My Flock

Obama:

Pick My Cotton

I guess only the Clinton's could get away with such brazen social warfare.

civil disobedience, be as sexist as anything, but its pretty funny no?