If only Hillary had voted "present" when she supported George Bush's war on Iraq in 2003 and then to compound that she voted "yes" for George Bush's aggression against Iran in 2007.

A who supports Abortion more argument. Geesh, this is what our country has come to. Who is in favor of killing 1.5 million Americans each year, more? Hillary or Obama?

I would say Obama wins it, not necessarily a good thing, since he supported live-birth abortions as a state senator.

Clinton stop being anti-Obama. What are your ideas

There is a fundamental dishonesty that's shared by both Hillary and Bill. It shows here, in the purposeful distortion of Obama's voting record. It shows in Bill's pretending that the BET head wasn't talking about Obama's teenage pot smoking, despite that the statement didn't even make sense in the explained-away version. And of course, it showed in what "is" is. While all politicians must sometimes lie, the Clintons seem to enjoy it.

that strategy worked? The Senate President couldn't attack him for the vote, but Hillary/EMILY's List can?

I thought these would not be posted?

that strategy worked? The Senate President couldn't attack him for the vote, but Hillary/EMILY's List can?

Posted by: Anonymous | January 14, 2008 5:32 PM

I actually think this will work out well for Obama. There's no record to defend, after all.

"...direct-mail literature questioning his commitment to abortion rights..."

Put out by whom, we wonder. Okay, we really don't wonder. The Clintons, like the Bushes, are willing to resort to any dirty trick to win. And even when they don't, they steal the election.

My guess is that a lot of dead people and people who don't even live in NH voted in the primary there.

It's too bad O'Bama couldn't vote his conscience, no matter what side of the issue he was on. I'm tired of the shrill extremists on both sides who simply cannot stand to be challenged.

"It's wrong to kill a two-celled embryo because it's murder! And every single married couple on earth is meant by God to have children, so birth control is wrong! Never mind the millions of kids who are starving and suffering excruciating deaths!!"

or

"It's perfectly OK to fry a seven-month-old fetus in saline solution, or suction off its limbs and kill it, just because your future fertility might be threatened! It's a valid medical condition! Don't you dare acknowledge this fetus as a thinking and feeling being who might hurt and suffer!"

I think the Christian right wing, and NARAL alike, can both walk arm-in-arm into a sewer drain. I'm sick of them both.

How republiken off them

Look out! Real World interference!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7187592.stm

From this article, you might think that Obama voted present on the "Born Alive Infant Protection Act." In fact, he did, but then voted no on this bill which would have required that abortionists provide medical care to an aborted baby who was born alive. By the way, Hillary voted for the nearly identical federal version of this bill.

So I guess that makes Hillary the "Pro-Life" candidate because she draws the line at infanticide.

when I first heard that Hillary's mailer said that Obama was not for women's right to choose, I knew she would win NH by women votes. this is very important to me as is for any women out there and Hillary knew it. it really turns me off that Clintons would use some thing out of Karl Rove's notebook. the funny thing is no one in the media has pointed this out. all they have talked about was how when Hillary dropped her tears, NH women cried and voted for her. so we women are too emotional creatures, right? are those NH women who voted for Hillary not offended by this at all?

I wish I could vote for Hillary this year but her manipulations of Obama's abortion and war record remind me too much of Bush attacking Kerry in '04. How much worse is she going to get before it's over?

I can't support a candidate like that in good faith.

Of course, the "devil is in the details" and since most voter can't read, or at least refuse to exercise their brains that much, folks like "Anonymous" will fail to see the rationale behind the technique. But more importantly, this also supports Barack's earlier statements that he was never setting out to run for President, unlike his competition; had he been planning to do so, he would have realized the BS'ers from Emily's List and NOW would have used those "present" votes against him, as they are now. Instead, Barack was looking out for the majority of the citizens of Illinois, who defend a woman's right to choice -- not himself.

Also, note to "Hillary's" List and NOW: Shouldn't Hillary's judgment and so-called support for women be called into question after she used Robert Johnson, founder of BET, Black "Exploitation" Television, to introduce her at a rally in S.C. yesterday? A billionaire who made his fortune, literally, off of the back-sides of young black women, who were exploited in the rap and hip-hop videos he aired, ad nausem, helping to create a franchise industry predicated on degrading women. Or maybe the degradation of young black and brown women is a less important voting bloc for Hillary and her ilk?

People -- wake up! The time for change is now! Barack Obama 2008!

Too bad all those dead babies can't vote.
Any question as to whom they would support?

It's almost staggering how candidly the Clinton campaign can completely disregard logic and facts in lieu of parroting distortions and outright falsehoods in an attempt to win an election.

It may very well work, but it's exactly the kind of thing that voters are tiring of.

Isn't Senator Boy Wonder running on change, disregarding the politics of the past - so what does he do - vote present as part of a political cover strategy.

My God, he just oozzes leadership, doesn't he?

How about those "present" votes for gun-control? Whose grand stratgey was that?

James,
Have you railed the same way about Republicans fighting amongst themsleves to see who can send more undocumented immigrants home, or who's the best NRA member?It's just bizarre!

Terry,

Who are you supporting for president?

Or, have you signed up with RNC Gadfly Bruce?

Too bad all those dead babies can't vote.
Any question as to whom they would support?

Posted by: Andrea | January 14, 2008 7:52 PM

Yeah, they'd probably vote for God...or Mike Huckabee.

How about those "present" votes for gun-control? Whose grand stratgey was that?

Posted by: Terry | January 14, 2008 8:05 PM

TrickleDown,

In Illinois, voting present on a bill means/or can mean that you are not satisfied with the current construction of the bill and would like to negotiate farther on it.

Nice try Wonder Boy, does your wife dress you in the morning our do you do that all by yourself?

Trickled On,

It was just stated above that voting was part of the strategy, so voting present for gun control was that he just wasn't quite satisified with the bill.

I'll stick w/ lack of leadership.

Does you wrist hurt you in the a.m.?

Doug,

I'm still sorting thru the quality of canidates the GOP has.

Voting "present" for political cover is not a courageous political stand. It is however consistent with all of the missed votes Obama has had in the US Senate, including several major bills. I don't see this as a Clinton manipulation, but information about Obama's style of avoiding a clear stand -- remember that Obama has not denied that he voted present, so this is factually correct. Are we really going to want a president who runs for political cover when the decisions get tough? I'll take Hillary any day over this kind of guy.

NObama - Hero to the abortionists.

Say NObama in '08

Say no to Shrillary as well!

My reading of this article tells me that Senator Obama was asked to vote "present" by Illinois Planned Parenthood in order to further the abortion-rights cause.
The folks in NOW disagreed with the strategy at the time. But the fact is that the strategy worked---abortion-rights legislators were protected from attacks and thus more likely to remain in office and continue working for abortion rights.

Senator Obama's votes were in no way less supportive of a woman's right to choose than anything Hillary Clinton has done. To suggest as much is simply illogical!

I am so tired of the Mark Penn/Shaheen/Johnson/Bill/Hillary slime machine. If Barack doesn't get nominated, I'm staying home. The Clintons are too Rove for me.

I am so tired of the Mark Penn/Shaheen/Johnson/Bill/Hillary slime machine. If Barack doesn't get nominated, I'm staying home. The Clintons are too Rove for me.

It was just stated above that voting was part of the strategy, so voting present for gun control was that he just wasn't quite satisified with the bill.

Posted by: Terry | January 14, 2008 11:08 PM

Terry the WonderBoy,

You live in Illinois, right? here's a helpfull hint, next time take the damn time to learn everything that goes into proposing, negotiating and voting on a bill in IL. before you open your trap and remove all doubt about how dumb you really are.

I love how you repeatedly get smacked down on here with facts, yet you still move forward with your twisted version of reality unfazed by the truth or any of those pesky facts.

You remind me of that Wingnut Prez of ours, what's his name?....oh yeah, Prez McFlightsuit.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/96127391@N00/2134216122/

----------

I'll take Hillary any day over this kind of guy.

Posted by: Anonymous | January 14, 2008 11:58 PM

I'll take the advise of a poster who uses a post name over someone who hides behind "anonymous" any day.

OBAMA 08!

So Hillary still knew all this, that Obama was playing the lead in a campaign organized by the most credible abortion rights organization in this country (Planned Parenthood) and she still managed to slime him on his pro-choice record?

I didn't realize quite how dirty she was until just now. Wow.

if people were as half as smart as they think they are,they will drop hillary like a hot potato and vote for Obama.I don't know about other women out there,but this woman wants Real Change not bush/cheney in the form of Hillary.I know she would make agreat President but this country has been used/abused and is bleeding a slow death in every area and Hillary has voted to many war votes ,to many iran votes and sounded like a bush .Its time for a Real Change a Real Directional Change For All Americans not just a few.

I, for one, am glad Clinton is putting boy wonder through the ringer. If he handles himself well, I might consider voting for him. If not, better we found out now then when the Republicans get a hold of him. And I don't think Democrats who Know how to play hardball should be chastened for that.

Obama supporters are full of such hate and vitriol that it is turning people off who might comsider voting for him. What is wrong with pointing out Obama's faults? ANyone who doesnt think that voting "present" is not a political ploy so that vote can not be used against you in the future is an IDIOT. Obama supporters know this but they try and spin it to make him look better, but deep down they know that they are lying 100%.

Now we know the Messianic candidate has clay feet he's in league with Planned Parenthood to kill our babies before they are born.
Really a nice guy Obama!
What a hypocrite vote present so you didn't vote no and you people laugh at Rednecks. Say what.
There are far too many abortions in America defeat Obama and Clinton and Edwards and save human life. Jerry White, Springfield, IL

It also bothers me that Obama is using revival-style campaigning with prayers, gospel singing (read:Donnie McClurkin-antigay zealot) and other sermonized speeches to appeal to whom? The religious bigots who are trying to take over our country in the name of Christianity. I read that at the same time, Obama's church extolls Louis Farrankan, leader of Islam, as a man to follow. That man is definitely a racist in his views against jews and racial prejudice against white people. This race is about inclusiveness. Do you think the Republicans won't use this in the general election to bring Obama down. Look further down the road people.

Hillary's camp did make and impact in NH primary. A flier repeating the lie that Obama did not stand up for choice "funded by Hillary Clinton for President" went out in the 11th hour of the campaign. It was followed by an e-mail signed by 24 prominent NH women Democrats (mine arrived at 5:31 on Monday evening, the eve of the Primary), restating the distortion of Obama's record on choice. I have no doubt this cynical tactic influenced some NH women voters. Moreover, it has caused serious division within the NH Democratic Party in NH. Hillary has left a wake of rancor that may influence enthusiasm in the general election. She has borne out concerns that she is a divisive candidate.

Too bad all those dead babies can't vote.
Any question as to whom they would support?

Posted by: Andrea | January 14, 2008 7:52 PM

You're talking about the young men and women who have died in Iraq aren't you?

How ironic then that an arguably cowardly (if only to be politically expedient) vote does in the end come back to be used against Sen. Obama. Further evidence that you're doomed if you do and doomed if you don't, so you should, in the end always stand up for what you believe is the right thing to do and not parse it so calculatingly.

It's nice that Hillary wants to attack Barack on this issue. But, I am curious what Hilary's voting record on abortion is? Hmmm... could it be that she has never had to vote for or against any abortion measure while part of her do nothing congress? I think so.

Trickled On,

You must be dizzy from that spin - I should say dizzier.

"...his present votes were part of a legislative strategy devised by the Illinois chapter of Planned Parenthood to counter a Republican leadership strategy to force pro-abortion rights Democrats into politically damaging “no” votes against popular abortion restrictions. The legislators wound then be attacked at election time for voting no legislation with names such as “The Born Alive Infant Protection Act.” The present votes would provide political cover and still have the same effect as a no vote."

Sound like political dodge ball and therefore a lack of leadership. If he truly
did not believe in the bill, than a "No" vote should have been cast. That would be standing up for one's convictions, not wetting his finger and sticking it in the air.

What was the rational for his 1999 "present" vote on 1999 legislation that would have required teens 15 and older to be tried as adults for firing weapons on or near school grounds? Leadership.

Also, in 2001, he voted “present” on a bill to keep pornographic book and video stores and strip clubs from setting up within 1,000 feet of schools and churches. Leadership.

In 1999 he was the only Illinois State Senator to vote against a bill barring early release for (criminal) sex offenders. That's just plain wrong.