Michigan 'firehouse primary' nixed by Obama camp

The Clinton campaign is virtually hysterical over their plight. They were waltzing around not too long ago basking in the inevitability of the Clintons being reelected. When the going was good they were all for supporting the actions of the DNC. But now that their situation is dire they want to nullify the rules and hopefully thwart the gains that Obama has made. Obama's campaign should needs to watch out for being snookered by the slick Willy group.

Everybody new what the rules of the game were when the ruling was made so why should Obama agree to a change now. Any agreements drawn up by Carville (AKA CNN political point person) is only going to give an edge to the Clintons.

Another ploy to look out for is the Clinton suggestions of a ticket with Obama on it. This is deception intended to draw votes to the Clintons, who would later abandon any such prospect once they were assured the nomination. These people are monsters.

Obama doesn't want this. He's counting on the super delegates to get him over the hump. More and more "real news" about Obama and his past our coming out now and this could really hurt him now in these two states. The DNC should pay since they screwed up the dates but the voters should have their right in speaking as to who they wish to represent them.

jhk,

The Michigan and Florida legislatures and governors are the ones responsible for this mess.

The RNC is no more culpable than the DNC, that is to say not at all.

If Obama doesn't start responding more forcefully to the attacks from the Swillary Clinton band of Karl Rove clones, he will end up like Michael Dukakis did twenty years ago.

Bragging about a new kind of politics does not protect you when dealing with an amoral opponent who who is a champion at gutter punches.

Wake up, Obama, or you'll be sipping wine at "Cheers" with Dukakis this September, comisserating over what might have been.

The national polls show 51% of Americans hate Hillary and a new Pew research poll shows 15% of democrats would shift over and vote for McCain if Obama gets the dem nomination.

And to make matters worse, the liberal dem winner has to go up against a real (not the J.Kerry type) war hero with alot of experience.

Paulo

Yup, the state governments enacted these changes. Gov. Granholm (D) of Michigan signed the bill although every Democratic state senator opposed it. Now she acts like it is an imposition of the DNC. And although the Florida Gov. and majority of the legislature are Republican, their bill passed with only two dissenting votes. They took a gamble and lost, and screwed their own voters in the process.

The only reason BO would reject the idea of another primary for these 2 states would be the fear that he would not win
What he doesn't realise again(GOOD JUDGEMENT) is that if he is the one who keeps these states from being seated he is the one who will suffer their wrath should he be the nominee
Hillary is for a do over why isn't he?
He is alienating too many people by refusing a do over in these states
Grant it his name wasnt on the Michigan ballot
But Hillary didnt campaign in Florida any more than he did except for the ads his campaign ran in FL which he wasnt suppose to do! Who broke the rules there??

Wait-- is Sen. Obama actually opposed to letting the voters in these two states have their votes counted? If he doesn't accept seating delegates chosen when the primaries were on dates that broke the rules, and he blocks a proposal to hold a primary on a date that does not block the rules, what does he want? Is his campaign saying they don't want the voters of Florida and Michigan to have any chance to vote for delegates that will be seated at the convention???

Doug....I find it hard to believe that people can't see who created the Fl, Mi problem. These states believed that they were sooo important that they would play chicken with the voters rights. I'm amazed that people can't see this. Although I feel for the voters of these states, they need to look within their own state for the culprits. Crist is such a jackass turning this into the DNC's problem.

Obama's lack of action on things is typical. He is not a bold new candidate. And his inactions show that he is not certainly not the stuff that presidents are made from.

Just look at the polls at REALCLEARPOLITICS, obama is dropping and doesn't want to have Michigan and Florida in play, he is ducking a vote in Michigan, he only likes the caucuses where he gets the zealots to turn out for the 4 hour party. Why doesn't Obama get Oprah and George Soros to get that $15 million to match Carville and hold new REAL PRIMARIES in Michigan and Florida.

Obama supporters need to quit the sense of entitlement and the rhetoric. They are really losing support fast due to their attitude.

'Swillary', thats the Rush Limbaugh talk.

Obama knows that he is not going to win if there is a do-over. So his people are trying to tell us that 5 million votes can't be counted because thats the rules while also telling us that the superdelegates must vote according to the same proportion as the pledged delegates because otherwise it would be undemocratic.

Thats not a consistent position, the superdelegates know it. If Obama refuses a do-over in Mitchigan, Hillary will get the original delegation seated. The conference rules are pretty clear, the conference can overule the DNC on this.

The rules are the rules, those are the rules, not the ones Obama thinks they are.

No way in hell do you allow people who broke the rules knowingly and openly a second chance.

I'd be pissed as hell if I lived in Michigan or Florida. But my anger would be directed at the people who got us into this mess: my state party leaders. By trying to jump the line they hurt the party. Now they have to go. It's as simple as that.

I don't understand why the DNC has the freedom to block the delegates' votes from being counted under any circumstances. I am a Barack O'Bama supporter but it seems to me that the will of the people should be honored, regardless of when Michigan and Florida choose to have their primaries. I wish the Tribune would explain why the DNC is allowed to have this kind of power. It's frankly reminiscent of Stalinist Russia, to me -- "Sorry, based on the fact that you miffed us, we're discarding all of your votes." Is this a democracy or not? And who cares WHEN Michigan and Florida have their primaries as long as all of the votes come in by the absolute deadline for nominating a candidate?

That headline is (wrong). The Obama camp didn't 'nix' anything. The state party leaders nixed the election when they violated the DNC rules and knew what the consequences where going to be. You can't join a club and then not follow the rules. That's some awesome journalism there buddy.

Granholm's proposed "do-over" in Michigan is ridiculous. To hold a Democrat-only caucus doesn't take into account all of the Independents and Republicans who had to vote "Uncommitted" for Senator Obama on January 15th in the open primary. We support Senator Obama too. We weren't able to actually put a mark next to his name then, and now we get no chance at all? Do our votes not count? I would call that voter disenfranchisement.

I think we need to play by the rules it just goes to show that the clintons will do anything to get to the white house, and when we consider all the baggage that the republicans can use on them. It will be Mccain who makes it if she is the nominee see a coulpe of things that are on the republican blogs:
The Vince Foster Suicide? The break in and Hillarys relationship with
Foster:

The fact that Clinton replaced Doyle with her old White House henchman Maggie Williams is one proof of the imploding Clinton organization.

Maggie, for those who are just tuning in, was one of Hillary’s most faithful “fixers” while Bill was president. The July 1993 suicide ? of White House lawyer and Hillary confidante Vince Foster was the first display of Williams’ skills. Williams -- with Hillary’s other fixers, Bernie Nussbaum and Patsy Thomasson -- searched Foster’s office at the time of his death. And, as the New York Daily News reminded us a few days ago, a uniformed Secret Service officer testified under oath that he saw Williams leaving Foster’s office carrying documents at just about the time the Justice Department was about to search Foster’s papers. The papers Williams left with were never turned over to the Justice Department.
Williams is also famous for receiving improperly, in the White House, a $50,000 check for the Democratic National Committee from Johnny Chung. Chung later pled guilty to campaign law violations and testified to Congress that he funneled $300,000 of Communist Chinese government money to the Clinton campaign.

Hillary’s Criminal Brother and the pardons
Pardoned Couple Say Access Has Served Them Well
By KEVIN SACK
Interview with Edgar and Vonna Jo Gregory, who received pardons last year from Pres Bill Clinton; Gregorys, who have been heavy political contributors for three decades, acknowledge that their connections gave them access that other pardon-seekers did not enjoy, but insist that they saw nothing wrong with seeking assistance of Hillary Rodham Clinton's brother Tony Rodham in gaining pardon; couple also maintains that they are innocent of bank fraud charges for which they were convicted
March 10, 2001

who are you trying to kid ! Obama is trying to appear goody goody on the surface and palys just as drity in the back room .
Obamo did an extensive tv buy in florida clinton did not .
Obamo is playing buy Carl Rove's play book ,trying to steel the nomination . Votes have the right to be heard. Dem's have the have right to have he majority vote of the candiate be on the ticket. Lets have a redo and let the chips fall where they may.

Listen, Clinton supporters, Oprah is going to step in soon and end this thing. It really doesn't matter that Obama isn't a fighter, Oprah will handle this. It is too late, so stop.

Michigan and Florida--Florida in particular a State who believes is above all others when it comes to elections and does whatever it feels like. So, Florida, thanks for GW;idiots). Now it wants the DNC to hold primaries and seat its delegate. The DNC shouldn't reward bad behavior on the part of these states. The State's Elected Officials made the choice for its constituents. So, if their contituents voices are not heard is not because of anything the DNC did. The responsibility falls on the elected officials of Michigan and Florida. Not Hillary, not Obama. If we could change the rules of any game at any time that it would benefit the underdog (The Republican Party)For example, if football, baseball, and the Olympics being the winner would mean nothing, just that you were good at cheating. In elections the result is manipulating the system to thwart the will of the people. If the delegates of Michigan and Florida were to be seated, it would be as legitimate as Sadams's, Chavez, and Pinochet elections. Needless, to say after the 2002 election, and how important this election is in the minds of many Americans. I believe, that shady political maneuvering all the way to November will make the streets of many US Cities look more like Kenya in the past month. The person with the most delegates, the most votes, and the won races should be the nominee. It don't think that Obama's camp will take Hillary's shadyness lying down. If Hillary thinks that she can steal her way to the Whitehouse, "it's going to be on", and at the end McCain would be President. He is after all considered a person of character to people of both parties.

Obama should just say "I'll let you seat Michigan and Florida, as long as I get all the uncommitted Michigan delegates AND you promise that you will withdraw from the race if you are still behind in pledged delegates at the end." There is no way (except the proverbial "caught in bed with a live boy or dead girl") that Clinton can make up the gap in pledged delegates or popular vote. If Obama can be the grown-up here, people will soon realize that.

It's incredible that anyone would be against a new primary in Michigan. Michigan democrat voters were completely disenfranchised. We (democrats) need states like Michigan and Florida in the general election, and thumbing our noses at the voters there in the primary is ludicrous.

What is Obama's problem? He has a good chance of winning the state anyway.

As for Florida, it seems like a new primary is unnecessary. All the names were on the ballot there, no one campaigned there, and there was record democratic turnout for a primary. Those results should stand, and the delegates should just be seated.

I truly do not have a preferred D. candidate at this point. I do not want to see major states disenfranchised (that has irked me since the beginning) and I want to see BOTH candidates turning their attention towards beating John McCain, and off of each other. I'll make my choice based on who does the better job at that!

Would anyone who believes it is the DNCs' fault, please explain why it was OK for your state to sign off on this and then change the rules. Please inform me as to why your state is different than the other 48?

If Michigan and Florida are talking about re-voting again, after Feb. 5, what was the point of moving their primary before Feb. 5?

Would Clinton be desperately pursuing Michigan and Florida delegates if she were ahead?

Safe to say, the answer is no.

She wants to change the pre-established rules of the game -- rules with which she had signed her agreement -- simply because she's losing.

What a crybaby!

Is this the sort of person we want in charge of the country? Heck no! Get her out of here, stop wasting time and let's move on Obama vs McCain.

Once again, the MSM takes everything from the Obama camp right out of context without skimming the details.

The idea of a new MI proposed would be restricted to Democrats ONLY, and Obama is rejecting this idea because it conflicts with the ability to have ALL voters being able to vote, since most Independents and moderate Republicans who wanted to vote for Obama and not Hillary or Kuchinich had to vote "uncommitted"

Any kind of do-over vote in MI and FL must be open to all voters and both Obama and Hillary must be allowed the ability to actively campaign in both states for it to be truly fair. But having re-votes in both states would mean changing the rules of the election, and MI and FL violated party rules by moving their primaries to earlier dates knowing that the delegates wouldn't be seated, and that's probably why there weren't many people voting in either state: why vote if my vote is not going to be counted, and why vote when no candidate has even gotten a chance to campaign here?

And say that there are do-over elections in MI and FL. It still works mathematically in Obama's favor, because Obama would heavily win MI, and he would be able to split delegate votes with Hillary in FL. Face it Hillary supporters: she's toast, unless you want her to destroy the Democratic Party and give the WH to McBushCain who's gonna keep our troops in Iraq for 100 years.

Some of you are idiots. I live in Florida and there is no way most people support our state paying for a do-over. If Hilary gets her way..great for her.. But there will be HELL TO PAY for the governers that allowed this to happen. I can think of better things for my state to spend $ 10 - $ 15 million dollars on. Education and things that help our state.
The DNC , Hilary and Obama knew the rules earlier..why change them now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Some of us here are thinking about protesting!!!!!! It is disgusting how these people spend the taxpayers money!!!!!!!

PS. I would vote republican or for Obama than that selfish B@tch Hilary Clinton anyday!!!!!

Once again, the MSM takes everything from the Obama camp right out of context without skimming the details.

The idea of a new MI proposed would be restricted to Democrats ONLY, and Obama is rejecting this idea because it conflicts with the ability to have ALL voters being able to vote, since most Independents and moderate Republicans who wanted to vote for Obama and not Hillary or Kuchinich had to vote "uncommitted"

Any kind of do-over vote in MI and FL must be open to all voters and both Obama and Hillary must be allowed the ability to actively campaign in both states for it to be truly fair. But having re-votes in both states would mean changing the rules of the election, and MI and FL violated party rules by moving their primaries to earlier dates knowing that the delegates wouldn't be seated, and that's probably why there weren't many people voting in either state: why vote if my vote is not going to be counted, and why vote when no candidate has even gotten a chance to campaign here?

And say that there are do-over elections in MI and FL. It still works mathematically in Obama's favor, because Obama would heavily win MI, and he would be able to split delegate votes with Hillary in FL. Face it Hillary supporters: she's toast, unless you want her to destroy the Democratic Party and give the WH to McBushCain who's gonna keep our troops in Iraq for 100 years.

Seems to me like many of you are mired down in whose "fault" the current situation is and are unable to move forward and try to deal with the realities on the ground now, going forward. (Sounds a bit like Iraq - doesn't it?) You cannot credibly deny several million people from two key states the opportunity to vote in the primary. Those voters aren't responsible for this mess. Some kind of re-vote is imperative.

when the going was good Clinton had no problems with the rules, now the delegates are down on her side and she wants to have them seated, this is just soo UNFAIR, the fault may not be the voters, but its soo unfortunate they didnt all stay away and wait like others, i dont think its fair to other states who waited their turn, and this should serve as a punishment so that pple dont just start changing rules whenever they like, next time FL and Michigan,you should play bythe rules , sad but you caused this for your selves!!!! OBAMA dont spend your well earned money on them!!!

Rules or no rules, democracy should prevail. I am surprised that someone who is 1/2 black would support the disenfranchisement of two of our largest states? Shouldn't they have a vote too?

OBAMA should offer to pay 100% for the re-vote. OBAMA inspires people..what is more unique/inspirational than taking campaign funds and letting everyone's vote count? Voters would feel inclined to vote for OBAMA based on this most generous campaign gesture. Spend the millions raised from hard working folks on the same old TV ads or spend that cash on the ultimate good publicity. YES, HE CAN.....

Theres no way Obama's team want Florida to vote again . He knows he wouldnt stand a chance in a primary and certainly not a general election. Super delegates is his hope, And he should not say that they MUST support him. The fact is the majority of democrats in the country voted for Hillary Clinton and in the states that matter.

The comment about the Florida primary being uncontested is false. There were a whole slew of names on that ballot, including Obama's

Democratic legislators tried to amend the bill which contained the
early primary provision. The Republican majority prevailed. the
provision was attached to an essential bill which established the
requirement for a paper trail in future elections in Florida.

The NDC laid down a party rule, clearly defined and stated, a was broken by a section of its own members in these states. The NDC annulled the votes in these states. Now the party functionaries and big shots are overruling their own words again. The Democratic Party in this year has consistently proven to be a Party without resolve and courage. It simply wants to pander to the whims of the Clintons. It is not serious about winning the White House. The Party's lack of resolve and wisdom is paving the way for McCain. It is a terrible shame. It is a party of defeats. Obama, like Powell, will go Republican 4 or 8 years from now. Why follow a bunch of idiots.

OK Erik..all these allegations are false. You aint got nothing on Hillary . just slinging mud from the Obamia Hussein Chicago Mafia

If Obama gets the nomination over Hillary, he can't win, so I'm voting McCain.

Obama is a FAD, and lacks the experience to be commander-in-chief. In fact, it even sounds funny THINKING of him in that role.

People who say that Obama will lose any redos are delusional. He may lose Florida, but there is no chance he'll lose Michigan. In fact he'll win in Michigan by a wider margin than Clinton will win in Florida, getting an even bigger delegate split. The Clinton campaign is in full panic mode. The math is becoming more and more implacable. Go to the Slate delegate calculator and figure it out (PS it'll be even worse after Wyoming and Mississippi.

Follow the rules if you want to play any game.

What the heck is going on here? The DNC screwed it up. If the DNC wants to fix it, so be it. Let the DNC pay for a new vote and give both candidates 120 days to campaign. Give the VOTERS time to listen to the candidates and then cast their votes! This whole situation reaks of political medling. Let's face it would you TRUST a polititian? Not me! I trust the voters. Give them an honest chance to listen to the candidates and then, and then, cast their votes! This whole situation stinks!

Excuse me, PHB. Hillary Clinton is the one with the entitlement problem. She is the one who assumed after Feb 5th that she had the nomination. How dare you say Barack Obama and his supporters have an entitlement problem. Barack Obama believes every state counts and that he should campaign in every state. Hillary Clinton likes to pick and choose which states matter and which ones don't.

Apparently the democrats don't respect laws/rules and would like to break it to their conveneince. Poor Obama is in the wrong party dealing with all these monsters.

Typical Clinton tactics of 1st saying They'll play by the rules, then challenging the rules they agreed to when it might benefit them. The people are so angry at Bush for this using this type of tactic should be up in arms against Hillary the Clintons. It demonstrates why a single family shouldn't be in power too long. They begin to view themselves as a Royal Family who answers to no one.

vote ABC (Anybody But Clinton[s])

I will not be voting for HRC or BO in November so BELIEVE ME, this is an objective view of the situation: Even though I think Obama will be harder to beat in November, he is doing the right thing. Clinton should NOT have the delegates seated because that was what they SIGNED THEIR NAMES IN AGREEMENT NOT TO DO.
One of the president's most important jobs deciding to sign or veto bills put before them. HRC's signature is apparently WORTHLESS.

Don't people know jumping the line is a bad manner?

The DNC screwed it up.
Posted by: Noel | March 8, 2008 11:53 AM

Please explain. Why are the states that signed an agreement to not hold their primaries early, than changed the rules, different than the other 48 states?

bill "Hussein" r.,

You're dead on regarding Crist. This veep-wanna-be is as phony as the day is long.

He played gullible Floridians like a cheap banjo.

Pied Piper Crist said "Florida's Important!" and many a short-sighted knucklehead said "Well, yeah - that's right - I AM IMPORTANT."

Never mind the rules that the FRP & FDP were obligated to abide by once their respective national organizations determined by vote their election calendars.

Crist is nothing more than a cheap political lady of the night.

I also have to say that this is not about either candidate so stop with the Obama this and Clinton that. It is about the voters. The states should pay.

If Clinton can't commit to what she signed up for who would trust her as a persident. As a president she would like to takeback the bills whenever it doesn't suit her, just like the Iraq war authorisation bill.

Small states beware! Billary(s) have their own list of favourite states. In their co-presidency only those states would get the favours.

This is politics. Obama is about a new kind of politics. You have the opportunity to embrace the new politics or you can cling to the old. Personally, I believe that Americans are cynical, angry, and spiritually lacking. You don't want change. You like contention. You like a lack of fairness. You equate that with strength. That is why so many of you didn't say anything when innocent Iraqis were bombed from above by USA bombs. All the innocent children, grandmothers, grandfathers, mothers and fathers. Obama is asking you to make a spiritual leap. To be better than you are. Can you do it? I don't think so. You will allow Hillary to steal the election and you will have your more of the same with the elite establishment still in tack. Remember, you voted for her. Don't whine when you have McCain as your President.

Ah Hillary's perfect world, a world in which her name is the only one on the ballot. Of COURSE Obama couldn't win if the primary was held late. His name wouldn't even appear on the ballot. The only reason wannabe Queen Hilly is squawkin' about it is because she has no mathematical chance of winning and she's desperate for any and all delegates she can scrounge up, legal or NOT! Why ANYONE would actually WANT somebody this dishonest running things in Washington is beyond me.

Mr Obama's name was on the ballot in Florida and Hillary won. Those votes should count, should'nt they?

Clinton NEVER "supported" the DNC rules. She signed the pledge not to campaign in Florida or Michigan (and she didn't...though Obama DID). But she was one of only 2 Democrats who refused to take their names off the Michigan ballot, signaling that she was NOT in support of the DNC's decision to not seat the delegations. So it's just a convenient LIE by the Obamanistas when they say she is changing positions to be self-serving. She never agreed with "the rules" - she only agreed not to offend New Hampshire and Iowa by campaigning in the states that moved up their primaries. It doesn't take an Illinois law professor to see that these two positions are completely consistent.

Why should Independents and Republicans be able to vote in a DEMOCRATIC primary? Hello, join the party to have a say, or get lost. It is not your party if you choose not to join. Get off your high horse and your "baby boomer" sense of entitlement.

Regardless of what the politicians did in Fl & MI, if the DNC does not find a way to seat the delegates, we are guaranteed to loose those states in November and I'll bet a whole lot of other people will sit out the election too. No American needs to be told that their votes don't count and if we can't stand up for that, then how have we as a nation improved over the years to ensure that all votes count. Unprecedented turnouts...think that will follow if the DNC does not address this issue. We might as well embrace McCain, because that's where we are headed.

If the Michigan and Florida delegates are not be counted--and those are the agreed to rules--then it appears to me that the total number of delegates needed to clinch the nomination should be reduced accordingly. Perhaps then it would be possible to get a winner without counting and/or redoing Florida and Michigan. Sen. Clinton did not follow the rules and should NOT be rewarded for this. She now sounds like she is fighting for the Michigan and Florida voters, but she is just fighting for her own advantage. The DNC should make it clear that the state officials (both parties) are to blame for the problem!

It's not the idea of a Michigan do over that the Obama campaign is against, it is the fact that the plan that has been proposed would not allow those who voted in the UNOFFICIAL primary held in January to participate in an OFFICIAL one. The only way there can be delegates seated from Michigan or Florida, is by those states holding OFFICIAL primaries/caucuses that conform with the RULES that Florida and Michigan both agreed to more than a year ago. If these states are unwilling to hold OFFICIAL primaries/caucuses then they have no one to blame but themselves for being left out of the process.

Florida is Hillary country - she won Florida and Mr Obama's name was also on the ballot. If there's a redo, Hillary will win again.

I've been wondering: would someone please explain how the Democratic Party got itself into this mess with Michigan and Florida? The main question I have regards how the Clintons -so influential and experienced as they are in government- could have allowed this to happen, when months before any vote was cast in Iowa, this looming disaster could have been resolved somehow then.

While Hillary is all for counting every vote NOW, why didn't she take this principled stand prior to having a personal interest in it? And how could a party that calls itself democratic not have anticipated -no matter what the eventual outcome of the primaries- that not counting two states was going to be unacceptable?

James Carville rounding up money for re-votes??? Give me a break. We might as well have Bill cut a check for the deal. (I'm sure his secret donors can chip in.)

There was a recent poll in the and it seems 51% of americans Hate/ Dislike Hilary Clinton.
The woman is a thief and is power hungry!!!!!!
She only won texas and ohio by appealing to the underdogs of american society. Fat Slobs in Ohio and Mexicans in texas.. you are a hero ..hilary - u liar.

Mosst people don't know that this woman has a case in california for fraud with her husband Bill Clinton.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=56868 fraud trial

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-03-06-clinton-library-foia_N.htm?csp=34 ( clintons block release of records)

American Society is being held hostage by this disgusting people.
I personally plan to vote for a republican or for Obama!!!!!!!!

The people of Michigan and Florida need to take this up with their respective governors. They both authorized it and now pretend it is the DNC's problem .

Sure Gov Crist can come out and say as he did recently that he doesn't care about party bosses!!! LOL ... He ploy is so transparent. He endorsed McCain which helped McCain win the Florida primary (R). Now he acts outraged that the Democrats in FL might not be counted ? PULLLEASE

He is just not outraged enough to PAY for a new election!!!

Where was all this outrage from REPUBLICANS in FL in the 2000 election ?!!?!? They didn't really offer a do over no matter who paid for it. They just stopped counting the ballots .

Hillary only wants to be president of the "BIG" States. Maybe she can start her own country. Until then, she needs to sit down and shut up.

Truthfully, I think Florida is a lost cause to the Republicans anyway in November, regardless of who the D nominee.

It doesn't matter whether you're a Democrat or Republican. It doesn't matter whether you have been supporting HRC, BO, or JMcC. What should matter in terms of the presidency is a long-forgotten word: Honor. Bill lied to the Supreme Court -- he has no honor. And now Hillary has broken very clearly stipulated rules and to make matters worse wants to backtrack. This is not a game where a child can say "Wait -- I didn't go yet" after getting the wrong answer. She is completely dishonorable. There was a time in history when "honor" mattered. Apparently it has little value to the candidates OR to the voters who would have her be president.

Hillary will say or do anything to further her megalomaniacal ends. She has some delusion that she is owed the nomination. She will steal it if she can, just like George Bush stole the election in 2000. She is a monster!!!

To those who are blind to reality and hopelessly in love with Obama to the point of worshipping the ground he walks on,and who hang by his word as if he were the new messiah,I can only say that I sincerely hope he wins the nomination,because his true nature as a phony will be unveiled to the entire nation.Obama'frail ego will be irremediately bruised when the real tough questions will hit him like a ton of bricks.In the general elections,no liberal media nor any of the idiots who worship him will be able to shelter him when the republic machine will expose the real Obama.

What a huge waste of money this would be. Why in the world should the DNC bail out Michigan and Florida for their stupidy and arrogance in moving their primary date? Everyone else played be the rules and they could not? If the powers that be in those states feel THAT strongly about their disenfranchised voters (that they themselves disenfranchised), then they should tap their coffers and hold a repeat primary, if not, then they need to just shut up and focus on the general election.

Clintons will do and say anything to get elected. Everyone knew what the rules were going in, now she wants to change the rules.

Examples of the Clinton lie machine.

She says she was responsible for Ireland peace agreement? She went there to admire a tea pot.

What about the Clinton land deals?

What about her making a 10000% profit on a dairy deal.

Why won't she release her tax returns.

Why is she dragging her feet on releasing White House correspondance generated during her years as presidents wife. By the way, how does being the presidents wife count as expereince?

I have always voted Democrat, certainly in national elections. If Clintons slither there way to win the primary, I will vote for McCain. I bet there is a sizable group of democrats that would likewise cross over

Obama should stick to his guns. That monster Hillary will stop at nothing to steal the election.

She is a monster!!!

By the way this comment sums it all up perfectly.

"What a huge waste of money this would be. Why in the world should the DNC bail out Michigan and Florida for their stupidy and arrogance in moving their primary date? Everyone else played be the rules and they could not? If the powers that be in those states feel THAT strongly about their disenfranchised voters (that they themselves disenfranchised), then they should tap their coffers and hold a repeat primary, if not, then they need to just shut up and focus on the general election."

Posted by: ange | March 8, 2008 12:54 PM

Hillary Clinton reminds me of my sister as a child. We'd play monopoly, she'd steal money, hide it under the table & when she got in trouble, she pulled it out from under the table & said, "look, I've got all this!". Then I'd throw the board against the wall, beat her to a pulp & that's how things stood. As a teen, she'd run up thousands of dollars in parking tickets & get arrested & thrown in jail. Today in her mid-40's she's a diagnosed manic-depressive who can't support herself even though she lives in a house paid for by my mother before she died.

Rules are rules. Is it too much to expect a prospective presidential candidate like HRC to play by them? Both candidates agreed the MI & FL delegates would not count. Now HRC is pulling money out from under the monopoly table & trying to steal an election she can't win at the ballot box. Is it really too much to expect Hellary Clinton to play by the rules?

This is all the fault of Michigan and Florida.

They both knew BEFORE ANY VOTES WERE CAST that if they held their elections early, they wouldn't count. The DNC TOLD OBAMA TO TAKE HIS NAME OFF THE BALLOT in Michigan. Obama followed all the rules. He hasn't done anything wrong.

On the other hand, This strategy of Clinton's is totally unethical. Anyone who says otherwise cares little about fairness or integrity.

Party rules, it just depends on what the definition of "is" is.

They disenfranchised themselves. It was their states’ legislators who disenfranchised the citizens. We need to make sure our elected representatives obey their Oath of Office and keep their Oath of Allegiance. See http://tinyurl.com/2znnvl Know whom you are voting for.

You know our electoral system is screwed up when the population of entire states is disenfranchised and nobody makes a peep. It is unconstitutional that the people in these states have no way to have their votes counted and the DNC should be penalized and dissolved. We are at the technological level that can sustain one person, one voice, one vote without the electoral college or the huge party politicking that robs us of our true right to choose. Put three republicans and three democrats on a primary ticket, have a REAL Super Tuesday, and let the people decide. Make every citizen over 18 eligible to vote and LET GOVERNMENT OF THE PEOPLE, FOR THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE NEVER PASS FROM THE EARTH.

You want Republicans in Florida to control the vote? Deja vu all over again? 2000 election?

I like the caucus format because it allows the more educated and dedicated voter to have a more influential voice in the voting process. Democracy only muddies the waters in primary elections by letting apathetic citizens a voice the process. We should be a country run by the intelligent and driven. Obama/Oprah '08

Obama favors caucaus because they usually include upper middle class voters who favor him. It is unAmerican to stop any primary that allows ALL people to vote, people working, housebound, in the military or otherwise unable to attend at specific times. It is also unAmerican to have to say who you are voting for in front of everyone. Obama is counting on the "public" vote to make some people vote for him just to show they're not prejudice, when in reality they really like Hillary, but don't want to be labeled as a racist. We were not ready for this. I have been a Hillary supporter for years and years, but when Hillary and Obama come up with friends who are African American you can't even discuss the matter without being accused of being racist. If he loses the primary, God help America. But I'm changing to Republican because I won't be forced to vote for someone against my concience just because he's black. I'd have been for him if Hillary lost fair, but man Obama, Oprah, Jessie Jackson and the Kennedys PLAYED the RACE card and tried to blame the Clinton's and that's just not fair. Hopefully McCain will whip his tail and by 2012 everyone will know the truth about his so called "above it all" campaign.

Well, this shows the kind of monsters the Clintons are. Anything goes with them.

When are we going to finally end this, and put our country back, the way it should be?

I think that the headline for this article is misleading. It appears to me that the Obama campaign is not against the idea of a do-over, only against the particular proposal made by the Michigan Governor. The text of the article seems to make that clear: "Our campaign will support whatever the DNC rules are, including a fair remedy to this problem"

They are also against seating the delegates from an election in which Sen. Obama's name did not appear on the ballot, though Sen. Clinton's name, through an administrative "mistake" did appear.

"However, allowing Sen. Clinton to change the rules and award her the non-existent delegates when there was no campaign in the state and Obama’s name was not on the ballot is not the answer".

So does this sound like they are unwilling to bend?
"It's our view that the state parties and the DNC need to work this out..."

BTW, the Clinton supporters parrot the propaganda from that campaign in a manner that makes the charge of cultism against the Obama camp laughable. They keep going on that Obama does not have experience but Hillary has 35 years. Nonsense. If you want to take everything that she did after college as experience, then you should apply the same standard to him and say that he as 20 years plus.

The idea that being First Lady gives her experience in foreign affairs is preposterous. Imagine the same comments being made about Mamie Eisenhower, Jackie Kennedy, Lady Bird, Pat Nixon, Rosalind Carter, Barbara Bush, etc. Absolutely idiotic.

The problem with allowing ANYTHING to happen without a full re-vote is that the initial results are completely bogus! I, for one, work many many hours and only break away from work when it is a dire necessity, as millions of Floridians that require our hourly income to provide for full families.

When our primaries came I decided against breaking away from work, as did millions of others, and thus there was only a 33% popular turnout at the booths! The only people that could make it to the elections were those who voted ahead of the election day, are rich and have no day time jobs, or perhaps are jobless (who knows!). Almost everyone I work wants to vote for Obama but how are 'our voices' going to be heard if we were told that our vote was worthless and NOW they want to use the results 'they got' to preach protecting 'our voices'?! This is insane?!

So Obama doesnt' want the delegates from the previous primary seated and he doesn't want a new primary? What, exactly, then does he want?

The voters of those two states to have no say, whatsoever?

Crist is nothing more than a cheap political lady of the night.

Posted by: Doug "Hussein" Zook | March 8, 2008 12:09 PM

Doug....I see you know what most people from Florida know about Crist.

If you strip away all the competing rheteric above, it boils down to the simple fact that with either candidate you will have duplicity and deceipt in the White House. It's great to be a conservative at this time, because voters of every stripe in the general election would be embarassed to have either demo candidate in the White House. Thanks for everything you're doing -- PLEASE CONTINUE!

Let this whole FL and MI mess serve as a lesson to all states in the future that believe that moving their respective primaries/caucuses to an earlier date will will make them more relevant to the nomination of a candidate in an upcoming presidential election. If the party officials in FL and MI hadn't tinkered with the dates of their primaries, we would not be having this discussion today. If people in FL and MI feel disenfranchised by the fact that their votes failed to count for the Democratic presidential nomination, they should take it up with their elected officials that implemented the earlier dates resulting in this controversy. I highly doubt that if Hillary was leading in delegate count and had not put her name on the ballot in either MI or FL, that she would still request a "do-over" in those states. Similarly, if Barack were losing in the delegate count, but had placed his name on the ballots in MI and FL and had won those states because of that fact, I seriously doubt that he would just sit back and say "Oh well." Unfortunately, what we have occurring right now is good ol' American politics. Hillary is losing in the delegate count and is going to try and make up that ground by lobbying to have the votes in MI and FL count. Is anybody really surprised by what's happening right now? If you are, then you haven't been paying attention to politics in this country for very long.

Obama is NOT opposed to a re-do in Michigan or Florida. Why ever would he be opposed, specially when his name wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan?? It's not rocket science.

Beware of spin artists in here.

This is politics. Obama is about a new kind of politics. You have the opportunity to embrace the new politics or you can cling to the old. Personally, I believe that Americans are cynical, angry, and spiritually lacking. You don't want change. You like contention. You like a lack of fairness. You equate that with strength. That is why so many of you didn't say anything when innocent Iraqis were bombed from above by USA bombs. All the innocent children, grandmothers, grandfathers, mothers and fathers. Obama is asking you to make a spiritual leap. To be better than you are. Can you do it? I don't think so. You will allow Hillary to steal the election and you will have your more of the same with the elite establishment still in tack. Remember, you voted for her. Don't whine when you have McCain as your President.]]

Paul -- When Obama ran for his state Senate seat in '95, he leveled the playing field by challenging -- successfully -- the nominating petitions of his competitors. In this way, he ran essentially (and perhaps literally; I can't recall all the details) unopposed. Legal? Yes. But hardly a new kind of politics. It was old-school Illinois politics all the way.

Here's the link: it's an in-depth Chicago tribune story from 3/07.http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-070403obama-ballot,1,57567.story

And the headlie is: Obama knows his way around a ballot
Some say his ability to play political hardball goes back to his first campaign

Kind of hard to keep believing he's new politics, after you read this.

Let's ask Warren Buffet to pay for the do-overs.

What does he have against firehouses? Is that a Muslim thing?

All of this talk of how it's such a travesty that potentially the votes of the Democrats in Michigan and Florida is UTTER nonsense. Every 4 years, the two parties hold nominating processes through primaries and caucuses. Usually, well before this point in time, one candidate from each party has moved so far ahead that everyone else is forced to drop out. That has already happened in the Republican party, and in almost every election since 1980 has happened by now for the Democrats as well.
MANY states have yet to even vote, and by the time they do, there is only one candidate left anyway. So do THOSE votes not count? Are the voters in North Carolina, Mississippi, Indiana, etc., all DISENFRANCHISED because their votes come after the nominee has been decided??
NO - that's how the process works. If the voters from Michigan and Florida don't get to have a role in deciding the nominee, that puts them in the same category as almost EVERY OTHER STATE that votes after Super Tuesday in a normal presidential election cycle.
They need to STOP whining, and accept the proces as it exists. Until the parties agree to a national primary where every state votes ON THE SAME DAY to pick their nominee, some votes in some states will ALWAYS get to decide the nominee for the others. Deal with it BILLARY fans.

Michigan and Florida are reaping what they sowed, simple as that. All the blame falls on the Democratic decision makers in Michigan and Florida. I feel sorry for those voters, but as others have said here, their anger should be directed at their state party leaders, not the DNC, Clinton, or Obama. Michigan and Florida knew the rules and the consequences for breaking them, but then went ahead and broke them anyway and are crying about it now. If you bail them out now, that's just rewarding their behavior - that's how you get bratty, spoiled children.

No do-overs - they had their chance, knew the consequences, and willingly screwed themselves over.

Taxation Without Representation is... Tyranny!

DON'T TREAD ON ME!!!!

DO NOT SILENCE MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom--and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

Obama doesn’t fear (re)primaries in Mich and Fla, he’s just maneuvering for the best deal. That’s what good politicians do best – maneuver until they get something akin to what they want. Even if these states went to Hillary, a so called win, a percentage of the delegates will go to Obama just as they did in Tx and Oh (and just as they went to Hillary in the states she ‘lost’). It’s the total at the end of the day and the supers that count. Perhaps Hillary now thinks she’s got the big mo’ on her side which will actually mean something to the supers. She’s also taking into account the idea of Republicans coming out in droves to vote for her because of their perception of her being the weaker candidate in November.

Give it a rest "Rose". Your teenage angst is out of place here. Why not get objective (if that's even possible) and consider the issue at hand without adding your obviously biased view concerning the candidates. It's NOT about the candidates...it's entirely about the voters in MI and FL having the right to voice their opinions through the ballot box. To hell with the candidates in that respect. Let's give the voters their "voice" and let THEM decide.

Obama has nothing.

His Iraq speech - he wont do what he promised, according to Samantha Powers who was fired after exposing the truth.

NAFTA - he tells one thing to you, another to the Canadians.

His Healthcare policy - leaves 15 Million out, because he payed it safe. And he is lying if he says he is not.

His speeches - recycled speeches from DeVal Patrick.

His economic policy - copied from Clinton

"Yes we can" - stolen from Dolores Huerta (after they dragged her in the mud in NV)

Stop the Drama, Stop Obama!

I wish the Tribune would explain why the DNC is allowed to have this kind of power. It's frankly reminiscent of Stalinist Russia, to me

bluesky: I think you forget that the primaries are a contest held by political parties to choose a leader to represent them in a national election. It's equivalent to electing a president of a private club. The DNC has no right to prevent anyone from running in a general election. Or from running as a representative of a different party. But they have every right to create rules on how they select an individual to represent THEM in the larger contest later.

Primaries are inherently internal competitions. Not public elections.

To all you folks that don't live in Michigan or Florida; I would like to give you my take on this. I live in Michigan. I do not feel that I have been disenfranchised. I will have my turn to vote-in November. When Granholm announced that she would seek a re-do, she said she favored a caucus; immediately the Clinton candidate said no way-no caucus. So Granholm-who supports Clinton-changed her plan to a primary. So here we go again Clinton wants a redo,but she wants it "Her" way. When the original primary was held here, Mrs. Clinton dismissed the election, telling the New Hampshire media that the vote "is not going to count for anything". Now that the race is neck and neck all of a sudden she believes these voters have been "disenfranchised". Give me a break. It wasn't the DNC that did any thing wrong; it was Michigan's arrogant Governor and Democratic party who felt that they 'didn't have to play by the rules-the heck with the other 49 states'. I say that we demand that the Honorable Course be taken-the rules were broken-accept the consequences of your actions. The people are not disenfranchised, we are being used as scapegoats so that the Governor and the Michigan Democratic Party can save face. We are the laughing stock of the nation; the Michigan Dem. Party is acting like an immature little kid. Let's do what is honorable and demonstarte to the country that there really is a new force leading the Democrats; one that practices truth and honesty over selfish ambition. We preach the lack of integrity demonstrated by the Bush Administration, and then Clinton and the Michigan Democratic Party pursue this tagic farse. No re-do; Let's get this thing over with so we can focus on McCain. Democrats will all get there chance to vote in November.

Obama is the one cheating, saying and doing anything to win.

All I know if we cannot vote in Michigan primary, then I will vote for McCain in the november general election, even thou I always vote Democratic....

Clinton claims that she is the most experienced, that she will be ready on day one, and that she will make the best Commander and Chief. How quickly has the media forgotten that the World Trade Center Towers were bombed in 1993. President Bill Clinton and Co-President Hillary Clinton were not ready on day one then. The Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, the Khobar Towers bombing in 1996, the U.S. Embassy bombing in 1998, and the bombing of the USS Cole in 2000 indicate that as Co-president, Sen. Clinton was never ready and never answered the ringing phone. She and Bill let the phone ring and go unanswered until President Bush took office. We now know the mess that got us into! There needs to be someone with sound judgement that won't let things get out of hand again. Obama.

Ppppppfffft on Obama!

I still have had no answer as to how this is the DNCs' fault. The states moved then up after they had signed an agreement. Please tell me how this is their fault.

Posted by: Jim | March 8, 2008 1:47 PM

Hey...it's not our fault you guys had buch of losers to choose from.

The whole Michigan/Florida thing can be settled easily. Give Hillary her delegates. I will explain. In Michigan, the candidates were not asked to remove their names from the ballot. Obama and Edwards chose to do so. Hillary and Kucinich remained. Obama and Edwards supporters were told if they did not want to vote for Hillary, they were to vote "uncommitted"...which they did. Hillary still won.The fact that Obama and Edwards chose to remove their names from the ballot just sucks for them. First problem solved.
Now let's look at Florida. All of the candidates were on the ballot. Nobody campaigned (except for a television add that ran for two weeks prior to the Primary by the Obama campaign). The people came out in droves and Hillary won the State by a large margin.There you have it.
So, instead of wasting more money on a "redo" or disinfranchising voters, just do what should be done and give Hillary her delegates that she WON fair and square. And if the Obama people don't like it, screw them. This is not American Idol. This is for the Presidency.

There is a point that has been alluded to in this article; but not thoroughly explored.

What makes any society civilized?

Rules

Rules that we teach our children, as we have been taught for each of us to live by and to live in our society with.

Where are our role models for this?

In this election, how many times have the Rules changed?

For instance, both Florida and Michigan, after repeated warnings, broke the rules and put their primaries ahead of those states that remained within the rules and left their primaries on Super Tuesday.

What does this SAY about our society? About Rules?

That they are made to be broken? And when they are broken, we reward the breaker with a do over?

Then, there are the Democratic campaigns.

With each failure, the Clinton campaign has advocated and argued for changing the rules.

There are many, many examples and each time, it is done to favor HER, not the Democratic Party and certainly not the Democratic Party objective which is winning back the White House.

The latest of these is Senator Clinton's refusal to allow Florida or Michigan hold caucuses (because HER campaign doesn't do as well with caucuses).

IF, we operated in the same manner as we have seen repeatedly demonstrated by the Clinton campaign, in our jobs - we'd be unemployed. In a civil society, we'd be charged, convicted and jailed.

It is NO wonder that people are apathetic toward Politics and don't exercise their right to vote.

Perhaps our apathy is due to realizing that Politics is one of the ONLY places where playing by the rules doesn't count and playing dirty does.

Now along comes another candidate that challenges us to challenge the rule breakers and says that WE CAN win in Politics by playing fairly and millions of people have stepped up to embrace that challenge.

It can be boiled down to this:

Clinton: I will do it FOR you and enables the average citizen.

Obama: We can do it TOGETHER and empowers the average citizen.

In Clinton’s politics are politics as usual – rules don’t count. She believes you have to FIGHT to win.

Obama’s approach is to play by the rules. He believes you have to UNITE to win and get the things done that the country needs accomplished.

Rules count and it informs us of both character and judgment of those who play by them and those who ignore them and break them.

It seems that the only people in our society that HAVE to live by the Rules, is the average citizen.

Big companies don’t have to live by the Rules. They hire Lobbyists to persuade our elected officials to create Rules which favor the corporations and not necessarily are our society.

Our elected officials or politicians see themselves as held to a different standard or set of rules than the average citizen. We elect these officials to speak for us, the average citizens and all too often find out that they are speaking for Special Interests instead.

The average citizen is being besieged on all sides.

Where were the rules to oversee the lending practices that now have many average citizens losing their homes? Now everyone is paying for the lack of oversight. Homeowners blessed enough to keep their homes, see their values plummeting and the cost of refinancing soaring despite many decreases by the Federal Reserve to the short term rate of interest. Our banking industry, which condoned, if not participated in poor lending practices are receiving help but what about the average citizen?

Where were the Rules? Who do the Rules benefit?

Our elected officials have chosen to put us and our country into TRILLIONS of dollars of debt to aid the average citizens of Iraq, not America.

Yet, the average citizens of this country and their children and grandchildren, because of the Rules, will pay for this and the majority now opposes this course of action. The choice to go to war has made our Defense Contractors and Military Industrial Complex rich. And, this has not made us or our country safer.

All these Rules have put our country into an increasingly severe economic downturn.

More than ever before, we are at an historical tipping point.

We, the average citizens do have a VOICE through our right to vote.

We can decide by whom WE CHOOSE to elect to serve and represent us.

We can decide who makes the Rules and who has to live by them.

Do we elect those who govern at the EXPENSE of the people?

OR

Do we elect those who govern with the CONSENT of the people?

Dumb question. What's a "firehouse primary," and how does it differ from a regular primary or caucus?

The DNC will have to seat the delegates and Hillary will be the nominee.It would be good because Polls show that if Obama wins the nomination 20% of the white voters will vote for McCain

Barack's statement that we shouldn't give in to Sen. Clinton's idea based on the fact that he played by the rules?? What a joke.
Barack Obama's TV ads were playing in Florida three weeks before the primary, and three weeks after. He begged off saying that it was due to the national coverage. The other candidates did not do that. HE BROKE THAT RULE.
Keeping the citizen;s vote hostage to the rules of the DNC and the RNC are ludicrous. As one Florida man stated, elections are paid for by the taxpayers not the commitees. Taxation without representation is unconstitutional. Let all of America's voices be heard. That is what democracy is about.
Why doesn't the press cover the contradiction of Obama's claim he played by the rules? There is a story there, and it's true. HE DID NOT!

Wow, now that Hillary Clinton is offering to pay half to re-do the FL and MI primaries so these people's votes can be counted, and expressing a willingness to consider a unity ticket, Obama supporters are online everywhere touting this as more evidence of "evil"?! These people need to rein in their ugly attitudes.

And Obama needs to start putting his rhetoric into action for a change. He could easily raise that $15 million in a day, but would rather disenfranchise voters and play politics as usual. His supporters should do the right thing and call on him to end this hypocrisy.

This situation makes me respect Obama more as he has been put in the situation of being the "bad guy" by standing up for what is right.

The whole situation sounds really adolescent and one wonders what the respective state party officials were thinking about with their defiance. Apparently, they were not considering the outcome or consequences. The people of Florida and Michigan should be the ones questioning why it was that their state party representatives took this course that led to delegates not being seated.

I am really weary of all of this media manipulation. For example, Mrs. Clinton offering a vice presidency possibility to Ohama who is currently in the lead, is to suggest to the public that in fact she will be the nominee. All this talk about the ultimate meaning of her wins in New York (her home state where there has been reported some voter irregularities), in California (where she had campaigner workers encouraging folks to vote prior to the primary) and in Texas where she has been campaigning since her annoucement to run.

Obama did a terrific job in closing the gap in his campaigns in both Ohio and Texas and because he did not win the popular vote does not mean inevitably that he could not win those votes if chosen as the democratic nominee.

Obama is a man, not a God, and he needs all the help from us that we can give. Because whatever the reasons, if he is not nominee, I will go to the polls, and vote for Ralph Nader, I am tired of compromise,and will exercise my consitutional right to vote.

McCain a "real" war hero, unlike Kerry?

That seems pretty crazy. How does being shot down and captured after dowsing a third world country with napalm make one a war hero?

Why am I not surprised at the dealings of the Democratic party and the Clintons.....Mr. Obama was fine and great man...as long as he was not on his way to being the party's nominee. Now that he has gotten we "Obamanites" motivated, organized and on the move towards nomination, Howard Dean, the Clintons and the likes of Mr. Carville want to change the rules so that they can put the person of "their" choosing as the nominee and not the nominee of the people's choosing. Mr. Obama seems complacent about this under handed turn of events and should be outraged at proposals to "do over" elections in FL/MI where ALL those folks knew the rules BEFORE changing their primary dates. Something is starting to "stink" here and I am afraid when that "something" is thrown out, it is going to land all over Mr. Obama and his supporters!!! Stop this mess now!!! Yes we can!!!!

Obama now sounds like ANY other politician. They both played by the rules. However, the Democrats cannot go into the general election having disenfranchised the voters in two major states they need in order to win the general election in November. They have to do something democratic and fair. The Michigan proposal meets both standards. It just looks like Obama is afraid he will lose the vote in Michigan.

Suprise she has time for these decisions asd she is busily making Michigan the worse state economy in the nation - hands down.

More and more "real news" about Obama and his past our coming out now.

Posted by: jhk | March 8, 2008 10:39 AM

Typical Clintonphile jibberish. Nothing specific, just vague accusations that, upon scrutiny, bears nothing.

This is the politics of smoke and mirrors. "LOOK! OVER THERE!" And the Clinton's pick our pockets again.

The choice is simple:

One is a leader the other is a politician. One is about the future the other is about the past. One wants to win with the politics of hope the other with the politics of fear. One will unite the country, the other divide it even further. One refuses to use negative campaigning the other stoops in it.

Who are we going to make our leader and the leader of the world? Wake up America, this is not about personal likes and dislikes. This is about our future and the future of the rest of the world.

Actually, Obama would win Michigan with ease.

Florida is another story, but Hillaryous can't win that by enough of a percentage to catch Obama in pledged delegates.

Hillaryous is toast, and the DNC leadership needs to reign her madness in long before June, or she will destroy the party. She has already given the GOP so much fodder for the general election that she herself is DOA if she was the nominee, and Obama will have her antics used in campaign ads against him--not because the republican attack machine is so tough, but because Hillaryous is so reckless!

McCain has real experience? Real experience like the Keating 5.

Darn, only if Obama had that type of experience.

Michigan and Florida made their decisions before. This bickering should stop, and we should move on. Michigan and Florida chose not to play, and money should not be spent now to put them back in the game.

D Grace says that "The DNC will have to seat the delegates and Hillary will be the nominee.It would be good because Polls show that if Obama wins the nomination 20% of the white voters will vote for McCain." If only 20% of white voters vote for McCain, presumably 80% will vote for Obama. Sounds pretty good for Obama. If D Grace is saying tha 20% of the Democratic white voters will bolt the party because Obama is black, then perhaps the party does not need them, and they belong with the Republicans anyhow.

The one issue that no one talks about is that with the proportioal voting patterns, neither state will be able to muster enough vote differential to significantly change the vote totals. In other words, the enite issue is much ado about nothing.

Obama would likely do fairly well in a re-do. Remember, Edwards siphoned off some of the anti-Clinton votes in Florida. Even if Clinton won both states by similar margins as she won Ohio, it would not change the overall popular vote or delegate counts much. Actually, Obama might fare better in Michigan, drawing support in Detroit and the college towns. Of course, Michigan is the state that went for Romney, so who knows?

Don't allow Hillary to fool you, the Way Bush did it before (and yet another time in 2004), appealing to your fears. We have to be smarter than that. Think before you vote. Think in a better world, in your children, in what is right. iraq is not right.

Obamabots are hysterical about a do-over! They're a bunch of whining babies!! Clinton has said yes to both, just not
in caucus fashion. That's why
the Obamabots are upset, they
can't out shout everyone in a primary. I, for one will not vote for Obama if he wins the nomination. We have had 8 years of an inexperienced dope in the White house, and our economy is in the toilet, gas, energy, food prices are growing at roughly 40%,
while wages are up only 2%. The dollar is shrinking.
We'll be a third world nation before the new president completes his first year.

Ok first of all this isn't Obama's fault that this mess is happening. He is saying that FL and MI broke the rules and were warned, however they still held their primaries too early. Of course HIllary wants these counted because she won in both, Obama wasn't even on the ballot in one, and she wants to let these states that disobeyed party rules to get away with this after signing with everyone else that these delegates would not be seated. Obama balked because he doesn't think he should be held accountable for a mistake he didn't make. Hillary wants to change the rules in the middle of the game and thats why she will lose. Shes willing to do anything to win. The only way Obama has won is by winning. She had to throw low blows in order to take Ohio and Texas. She still is throwing low blows because shes scared to lose. Obama has a lead and she can't take it from him. This should show America what she is all about. She will play fair when she is winning!! When she loses she will twist the system in her favor. Thats why everyone needs to spread the word and make sure Obama doesn't lose his grip. NO I COMPLETELY DISAGREE THAT OBAMA SHOULD RESPOND TO THESE PETTY ALLEGATIONS AND PLAY THE SAME GAME HILLARY IS. HE IS TOO GOOD FOR HER GAMES. HE IS WHAT WE NEED IN THE WHITE HOUSE. IF HILLARY TAKES THIS NOMINATION FROM HIM, THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY WILL BE SPLIT FOR A LONG TIME. VOTE OBAMA 08!!!

Oh Yes, Obama wants a caucus cause he knows it knocks out the citizens that are not able to attend because they are honest working folk that cannot get out of work for the times that the caucuses are held, or they are single parents that cannot stay the long periods of time that a caucus requires. If FL or MI try to put through a caucus I hope Hillary's people "nix" that one. If he has the right to nix the firehouse primary. What a crybaby, we don't need that in the Whitehouse.

What does he have against firehouses? Is that a Muslim thing?
Posted by: whatnow
----------------------------------------------------------
Comments like this do nothing more than display to the whole world your pitiful ignorance.

Both Michigan and Florida must be seated. Howard Dean is a total disaster and should have never made such a heinous error. Especially in the case of Florida. Howard Dean, just like Nancy Pelosi must GO! They both suck and are both incapable of doing their jobs.

We have to REDO because Howard Dean made a mistake not the PEOPLE of Michigan and Florida.

The votes must be recast and Obama will lose again as well he should. He's a big fake and finally people realize it.

I always knew he was a BS artist. My being black didn't give me BeerGoggles.

My being female didn't make me cast my vote for HRC. I voted for STRENGTH.

Hay GW sounds like Obama is the one waltzing now, he is the one that nixed MI's solution. Hillary has said that she will agree to whatever conclusion the DNC comes to, I feel anything other than a caucus. You're as big a crybaby as OB, OR maybe that should be BO.

The fog has lifted and the Kool Aid is wearing off, the followers are getting restless discovering the rhetoric indeed has no substance, foreign governments are being told "he's only saying that stuff to get elected, don’t worry he doesn't really mean it".
Lest we forget Obama is a product of Chicago politics. Where’s Oprah when he needs her, they can just buy the votes. Tony Rezko bonehead deals? Just another day in shyster politics.
He represents change, don’t think so. Guess he’s not your chosen one.

The problem is that the people who created the problem (state politicians) are not the same people being punished(voters). Anyone who values democracy and the right to vote at all should be troubled at the thought of millions of voters being disenfranchised.

I find it troubling that the candidate running on "change" is such a stickler for the status quo. If "change" means supporting the disenfranchisement of millions of voters just to flip off some local politicians, then maybe that's not the kind of change this country needs. Also, just being pragmatic, the Democratic party should worry about how are those voters going to vote in the general election if the DNC takes away their voice.

The right to vote is just so fundamental to this country that I'm a little incredulous that anyone could advocate that it be taken away.

Senator Obama wants his cake and eat it too. He lost FL overwhelmingly and dropped out of MI. He can agree to whatever FL comes up with, however, since he dropped out of MI, my feeling is he has no right to even be considered in any do-over in MI. He gave up MI and now feels he should be included. I don't think so. He received poor advise and now he should face the consequences. He is out of MI and it would be a travesty to allow him on the ticket. Shame on the DNC if they allow Obama to receive even one delegate.
Dr. John K. McKay, Jr.

The Governors of Michigan and Florida have nerve and are wrong to expect others to pay for and solve the problem that they created. They knew the consequence of moving their primaries up would be that their Democratic delegates would not be seated. The people of Michigan and Florida should be directing their anger at their own state leaders for putting them in the situation in which their votes would not count. To solve the problem in their states, the leaders of these states should put the question to their people, asking them whether they think it is worth it to pay for another round of voting and also which process they would prefer, primary or caucus. If the people in these states vote to pay for a repeat process, then they should proceed. But it should be decided by the people of these two states, not the leaders who have already caused much damage to their states and to the party. The leaders of Michigan and Florida need to take responsiblity.

I am also concerned about the leadership of the Democratic party. I am dismayed at what I have heard from some Democratic party leaders, mostly Clinton supporters, saying that the superdelegates should exercise their judgement even if it is over the will of the majority of people. They make the argument that they know what is in the best interests of the party and people, insinuating that regular people do not have this judgement. Listening to our leaders, it is beginning to sound like many of them are the ones with the poor judgement, and are not in touch with the lives and thinking of regular voters. Barack Obama's popularity comes in large part from his confidence in the judgement of regular Americans and of his being able to empathize with the struggles of regular Americans. We can see when our leaders are playing games. It is hard to understand why Hillary Clinton would want to viciously tear down a member of her own party, suggest that her Republican opponent might make a better commander in chief, and then suggest that her democratic rival might make a good running mate. One can only conclude that she is in the race for the power, for herself, not for the good of the American people, and not for the good of her party. The leaders who support twisting the process to favor her are not helping their party either. They are damaging their own crediblity and their party's chances of winning the geneal election. There appears to be an element of unreasonableness in the supporters of Hillary Clinton including the party leaders. They should realize that there is a problem when right wing Republicans are encouraging their people in Texas to vote for Clinton. She may win in the short term by unsavory tactics and illogical superdelegate support, but will lose in the long term by uniting Republicans against her. She will not have the support of independents who might have supported Barack Obama. She will also not have the support of Democrats who will be dismayed by a nomination achieved by unfair means. With the continuation of devisive tactics and a devisive atmosphere, does anyone think that a Clinton administration could get the cooperation of Republicans to get important work done in Washington? We will see a continuation of partisan politics and gridlock that we have been subjected to for the past 16 years.

Let us give Barack Obama a chance. He has Democratic, Independent, and even Republican support. His stands on the issues are solidly Democratic, and not just Democratic but what the people of this country need at this time. He has the best chance to win against John McCain on the issues. And he has the potential to govern in a manner that would allow reason to prevail rather than partisanship. This is what we need in this time of chaos and uncertaintly. He has the potential to achieve the cooperation needed to make inroads toward solving our country's and even some of the world's difficult problems. The Democratic party cannot afford to be unreasonable at this time.

Obama needs to allow the people to vote in these states....and avoid yet another bone headed mistake.

The man now running for president on a message of giving a voice to the voiceless.
But when it comes to walking the talk, he shows his true colours.

Obama needs to allow the people to vote in these states....and avoid yet another bone headed mistake.

Fair is spliting the vote 50-50.Anything else would be unfair to one or the other canidate. That gets them seats at the convention and doesnt unfairly change the rules in mid game and gets the issue resolved so we can move on.

Poor Republicans-- their hopes will soon be dashed when they find out that:

1. They have agreed to be together on the ticket. No more attacks on each other.
2. They will start to appear together in combined "Rallies to Destroy the Republican Party Forever" in each state contest starting Pennsylvania and will take part in town hall meetings as well. MI and FL will be revoted since these states will be great to tear down the Republican Party.
3. Their ability to attack McCain and tear his record and his personal attributes (such as the extra marital affairs, his anger management etc.) will be a key test along with their positions on Iraq, Healthcare etc. Obama has to show his attack skills. He also has to show his mastery of issues.
4. If one candidate has both the delegate count and popular vote he/she will be the top of the ticket but if it is a split, then the superdelegates will vote in a secret election.
5. Both Obama and Clinton have agreed to certain aspects of their policies to be included in the platform irrespective who is on top.
6. Obama will get his wish -- should Hillary go on top she will get out after 4 years--since he is agreeing to this when he is well on top with delegate count.

Even with big Clinton wins in Michigan and Wyoming, there is no way Clinton can close Obama's delegate lead. Dragging this out to June is NOT an opion. Obama has won the nomination fair and square.

My understanding is that the DNC came up with a clear plan of which states would vote prior to Super Tuesday on February 5. All the states signed off on this plan. The reasoning for the DNC choosing the states that they did was because they felt the votes from those four states would represent a cross-section of voters that would in turn well represent the demographics of U.S. voters as a whole. Again, all the states signed off on the plan. After signing off, Florida and Michigan legislatures took it upon themselves to change the dates. It was clearly understood prior to those votes that breaking the agreed-upon rules would mean the Democratic delegates would be stripped of their seats at the convention. The majorities in the FL and MI legislatures snubbed their noses and voted to disenfranchise their democratic voters. Those who voted to make the change and the governors who signed the bills have no business directing the blame at the DNC. They are the ones who need to be held accountable to the mess they've created -- not the DNC, not the campaigns.

Oh the venom. I just want to know that if Obama agrees to a new election in FL and MI, then will you all vote for Obama in the General? Because right now, even if you seat their delegates, with out the superdelagate advantage which she gained initialy, she loses. In MI she barely won a majority, with no one else on the ballot. In FL she won when my candidate was still running, with out him, then Obama picks up all the antihillary vote. This puts Obama over the top. But what ever happens, Hillary and crew need to stop the negative 3am adds, it plays on peoples fears, and forces Obama to respond, damaging us the democrats. In the next election the dems could pick up a filibuster proof majority in the Senate. This would allow US to make major change for the first time in years.

Put down your guns. Regardless of what you think of either candidate. They both support, and will support most of our issues well. Lets not throw this in the dumper with so much at stake. Carville is first a democrat, then Clinton supporter. I for one trust him. If he can fund a revote, that satisfies me. And more important puts a contentious divisive issue to bed. As a Union president I sign everthing In Unity. So In Unity. KS

This Florida and Michigan Problem is ridiculous. I think it's terrible that these two states are putting the blame on the DNC when it was these two states that agreed to not have their delegates seated long ago.

But I also criticize the DNC for giving such a harsh punishment for the crime. It probably made more sense to do something like the RNC did (take only half the delegates, or pay a fine). I understand you break the rules, there should be consequences. But I thought in this case, the punishment didn't fit the crime.

So what to do now? You can't use the results from the previous primaries of michigan and florida, since obama wasn't even campaigning there. Some negotiation needs to happen. Maybe the DNC pays for a bit of it and "fines" the two states for the original infraction by having them pay a small percentage. At some point, the election between Hillary and Obama becomes a bigger issue than primary date quibblings.

If all else fails, I think we should just let Al Gore decide who the next president should be. That would only be fitting.

It was the Democrats in the Michigan Legislator and a Democratic Governor who decided on a January Primary. They had the one they wanted and they got their results which they knew would be no delegates to the convention. There seems to be no issue.

Florida the situation is a little different. If the Florida Democratic party wants a primary they should pay for it. If money is the issue have a caucus or a write in election. If none of that is acceptable then it will turn out that Florida will not have delegates. That would be unfortunate.

Bottom line Michigan and Florida are 2 different situations.

Why should Mr. Obama or Mrs. Clinton have to put up money for these elections?

The DNC has said many times that they WILL NOT pay for new elections, and they have also stated that it is up to THE STATES (Michigan and Florida) to fund the new elections, as it is THEY who BROKE the rules. Why are people blaming Mr. Obama for agree with this rule? Who cares if he benefits--Mrs. Clinton benefits if these delegates are seated, it's a mute argument.

Neither Mr. Obama nor Mrs. Clinton should be made to pay for re-elections. The states which broke the rules should--I agree with this--not DNC, candidates. Unfortunately, the voters of both Michigan and Florida should pay, as it is their leaders who, well, screwed them.

Don't blame the candidates for this.

These voters should show their anger when election time comes to renew/end the leadership of these rule-breaking leaders.

If the Clintons continue dirty politics and steal the nomination...I for one am going turncoat in November and will rebel by voting McCain. Many others I know feel the same way. Go OBAMA!!!

I live in FL and will not re-vote! If Obama gets in without allowing my original vote to count, I'll vote Mcain in Nov. I didn't vote to change the primary date, my vote should count!

What's puzzling to me is why we are even considering a primary re-do at this time. It was CLEARLY the decision of FL and MI to move up their primary dates. They made that choice, not the DNC. They fully understood the consequences of their actions. While I am disappointed that the voters in these states won't have their votes counted, the problem, as someone has already noted, lies within. Those voters should be going after their state chairpersons, not the DNC.

The decision to disqualify these two states was made a long time ago - way before the primary season ever begun. This is old news. If ANY candidate had an issue with the DNC's decision regarding this matter, that candidate should have made it known PRIOR TO the start of the primary season, not during. It’s interesting that Hillary Clinton only raised her concern AFTER the two state primaries had been held; only after she discovered how much support she would have received. Now that she is in a tight race for delegates, these two states could give her the necessary boost in winning the party’s nomination. Something is wrong with this scenario. Didn’t she agree with the rules that disqualified these two states prior to the primary season? Now she wants to reverse the rules. Hmm…is it just me that’s beginning to see a pattern here? First, she voted for the war, and then wanted to reverse her decision. Next, she agreed to the DNC’s rules regarding primaries, and now wants to reverse them. That’s flip-flopping.

To add insult to injury, she wants to spend $30 million dollars for a re-do of these primaries instead of using that money to defeat McCain in the fall. She even tabled a less costly caucus approach. That’s wasteful spending - yet another bad trait in a leader. This calls into question her ability to turn this economy around.

From the look of things, this whole charade was planned from the very beginning when the two states were disqualified. So to allow a re-do at this time would in essence be rewarding these states for non-complying and more importantly, it sets a dangerous precedent.

What's even more troubling is the fact that Hillary is now trying to browbeat Barack Obama into agreeing to a primary re-do, which clearly is not in his favor. I suspect, if the roles were reversed, she also would take his stance. Her campaign is trying to spin this as Barack’s fault for not agreeing to a re-do. That’s playing dirty – we should all expect more from our leaders.

Let us not forget that Hillary did indeed campaign when she went on record to fight for the voters in Michigan and Florida. If I am not mistaken she took this position before the actual vote. Hillary wants the results to be given to her and at the very least a new primary vote. She wants to change the rules and will not agree to a caucus in either state. I wonder why?

Bill Clinton suggests a joint ticket. Why would the leader even consider this option. It sounds like he is lobbying for the super delegate vote hoping such a solution would sway those super delegate voters to support Hillary. Rules are rules and need to be followed. Would he still be talking the same tune if Hillary was the VP candidate on the OBama ticket?

Paulo, I suspect many more would switch to McCain should Hillary be the nominee. She has shown her true unsavory colors.

Michigan and Florida legislatures both knew the fallout when they moved their primaries and now the citizens want a do-over? Their argument is preposterous.

In essence the complaint is that they deserve special treatment because their state governments are stupider than the others?

There is someone to blame in all this but it isn't the DNC, or Obama, or Clinton. The issue is YOUR ELECTED officials. I repeat, your ELECTED official. The ones YOU chose.

Voters of Michigan and Florida, look in the mirror. The only one to blame is yourselves.

Check your facts folks. Obama is not opposed to a do over. So long as it is done by the rules and he actually has the chance to campaign and get his name on the ballot. Now that Clinton NEEDS these votes, she is coming off as if she always supported Fl and MI in this and is trying to place all the blame for this on Obama. His campaign is no more to blame in this than any of the others. He is obviously not going to fund it. It would be wrong for him to take donations of so many people and use that to fund an election process in Fl and MI. That is not why people donated money to him.

Governor Charlie Crist today (May 21, 2007) signed House Bill 537. Representatives from the following organizations also attended the bill signing ceremony: the Voters Coalition, Broward Election Reform Commission, Miami-Dade Elections Reform, Palm Beach Elections Reform, Voting Integrity Alliance, and the Palm Beach League of Women Voters.

Florida Democrat, Jeremy Ring, sponsored Senate Bill 1010 which called for changing the presidential primary date. The same law also prevent 3rd party voter registration. So, groups like the league of Women Voters will be precluded from holding voter registration drives.

Jeremy Ring is alleged to have said, he wanted to "blow up" the presidential primary.

The Florida Executive and Legislature, NAACP, and others failed to do anything to protect the voters of Florida.

I'm sure since the news media is back on their chain for Hillary and they've "gotten tough" with Obama, NOW would be a great time for a "do over" in states that demographically favor Clinton anyway. Gee, why wouldn't Obama want that?
What's so hard about abiding by the rules of the DNC and accepting the sanctions for breaking them? The only thing hard about it is being a Clinton supporter and seeing her campaign go down in flames.
Of course changing the rules after the fact doesn't phase the Clintons in the least. "Whatever it takes", RIGHT?????

Do-over? Schmoo-over.

An after-the-fact “oops” option is both unfair to taxpayers and unfair to the party.

Florida and Michigan did it wrong, so they should be out.

What's so hard to fathom about that?

Crist is nothing more than a cheap political lady of the night.

Posted by: Doug "Hussein" Zook | March 8, 2008 12:09 PM

Doug....I see you know what most people from Florida know about Crist.

Posted by: bill "Hussein" r. | March 8, 2008 1:43 PM

Wow, what a couple of enlightened, tolerant posts. I love it when democrats show how they truly feel.

1. Most of Obama's votes are anti-Hillary Vote. That shows how many in the party hate her(for good reasons).
2. If Obama gets the ticket then old women folks won't vote for him.
3. If it is BO/HRC or HRC/BO, Billary's negative votes will sink them together.
Democrats are dommed in 2008 in any case.

The smart one give up 2008 to the other and try 2012 instead.

Billary's momentum is nothing but republican making in Texas and the dems are falling for it. RNC handled the same MI&FL the situtaion better by giving 50%. If the dems can create a mess out of this how are they going to handle national crisis.
God save America!

Michigan and Fla; You screwed up. Live with it. Suck it up. Face the music. Tuff nuts.

The DNC rules committee laid down the punishment, they all voted that these two states delegates wouldn't count. And who was on this committee? SURPRISE a lot of the people that are in Clinton's campaign! Like Lanny Davis, who voted to strip these states of their delegates and now insists, after Hillary won, that they count.

So she got to decide the rules, the punishment, then won the states, and now wants to change the rules again to count the delegates... does that seem fair to anyone?

Remember this: The voters didn't change the primary date in FL! If the DNC doesn't count my original vote in FL, I guess they don't want it in Nov. either! I'll vote McCain!

Now - if memory serves me correctly, the Obama camp were initially for a do over and the Clinton camp were against it.

Now it is the other way around? That only tells me one thing - the Clinton camp have a fix in to put a re-vote in their favor - otherwise they would never go for it. I just wish this piece had given a few more details about the re-voting system proposed - you might find that it is not terribly equitable.

I also agree with an earlier poster - the Clinton's talk about a Clinton/Obama ticket is a way to draw Obama voters to vote for Hillary. People shouldn't fall for it.

A new primary takes away a lot of voters, who would have otherwise cast their vote for their favorite candidate. Really, the only fair alternatives in Michigan and Florida are to either have COMPLETE primary re-elections (on both sides of the aisle) or to have new caucus elections.

Folks who aren't paying attention: A caucus was discussed earlier (in the state of Michigan), and Clinton's campaign completely rejected the idea. So, if you're going to comment about Obama, please do the intelligent thing and do a tad bit of research. It's especially disturbing to see the know-nothings blame Obama for the mistakes the Democratic Party AND the states of Florida and Michigan made.

Also on the committe that voted to strip Michigan ANd Florida of their delegates:

Harold Ickes

And for the record, holding a fundraiser in Florida is "campaigning", and the only person to do that was Ms Clinton. National television ads are not campaigning in a specific state.

Obama gave up his name on the Michigan ballot to boycott the state's breaking of DNC election rules. He did this with other candidates.

Please, Dr. McKay, tell me where you live so I will stay very, very far away and that you never are allowed to perform any work that will involve anyone in my family (whether you are in medicine, teaching, R&D, or you're one of those silly white-coat doctors on the "natural male enhancement" ads). I don't want a doctor like you, completely ignorant to the situation at hand.

The irony is that the way the Demo. race is going, if FL and MI had held their primaries at the traditional time, they would have been very influential in the process. The FL primary "should" have been this week.

Typical Clinton politics. She violates the pledges she and the other candidates made to follow the DNC rules regarding Michigan and Florida then sneaks into Florida and campaigns. She was the only name on the Michigan ballot and now that she's behind in delegates she wants the DNC to allow the two maverick States delegates to be counted. Her and Billy Boy deserve a gold medal for gall. These two just have no shame. Obama should stick by his camps decision not to include these delegates. He followed the rules.

I am a voter from Michigan and I do not want a "do-over." What was done was done, and against the rules. Grandholm, whom I supported before, will be losing my vote next time around. She has become a betrayer, a Hillary hack that will do anything to get some political position in any administration. In many way, she is very similar to Hillary, what with her blind ambition and willingness to morph into any being she needs to be. Too bad, as I kind of liked the governor. But betrayal is betrayal, and I sent her emails to warn her that many of us would abandon her if she persisted in her drive to give the state away to Hillary.

Obama should hold the line all the way, without reserve. He is in the right and any re-do would be unjustified and a perverse attempt to steal the state delegates. Mind you, that does not surprise me from the amoral Clinton camp.

Every time Obama camp mentions the phrase "played by the rules," it reminds me of playing by the old politics. Obama people are more interested in disenfranchising voters than bending the rules to allow their voices, since doing so will work to Obama's disadvantage. And we call this new politics of hope and change? There must be a lot of Eskimos buying freezers from Barack Obama.

For a group of supporters of the "New kind of Politics" I have never seen such vitriolic comments. Perhaps being anonymous allows you to spew hatred with no thoughts of offending readers who happen to disagree with you. If you are indicative of the "New Politics" then heaven help all of us.

Endorsing/working for Hillary and was on the Rules committee that voted to strip Michigan and Florida of their Delegates: Ickes, kathy Sullivan, Alexis Herman, Donald Fowler, Elizabeth Smith, Hartina Flournay, Alice Huffman, Ben Johnson, Elaine Kamarck, Eric Kleinfeld, Mona Pasquil, Mame Reiley, Garry Shay, Michael Steed,

and most of the other have worked for Bill.

Before Obama was even on radar the florida and michigan issue was...NO ISSUE. Now that he has the momentum the clinton team want to include these delegates to suit there agenda. This is not about the people, don't be deceived this is about "power" The Obama campaign has followed the DNC rules now the clintons want to change it because things are not going in there favour. THIS IS WRONG. Let the votes fall where they may. Obama name was not even on those Ballots so obama voters would be disenfranchised too. So it balances out. Let move on.

This just proves that Hillary will do anything to get elected. She refuses to play by the rules. I think she is downright amoral. Unfortunately a classy guy like Obama has to be dragged into the gutter by the hateful Clinton politics

As a Floridian here is my proposal. Dems oust Karen Thurman as state party chair. Pubs should do likewise, but that party had a little better stategy.We knew the consequences and went forth anyway.
If anywhere in the country a party should know the value of counting every vote and making sure that each vote counts it should be here. Nope we don't want a do-over, mulligan, or second bite of the apple. Go to Denver and Minneapolis andwe'll just watch and hang our chads.

Hillary Clinton is not a ruthless, dirty, amoral, sleezy politician...as far as I know.

well as an outsider ( Aussie), It looks like clinton is a bad looser and to my mind vindictivness is not a quality that a President needs. Me I'd go for Obama.

I'll say this, if HC should get the nomination doing what she is doing,(dirty,ugly,liying,etc)then come november i'll just sit this one out; I voted for Bill Clinton twice I was a strong Clinton soporter till HC started playing dirty and loose with the truth, so forget it if she get it.

The only reason South Carolinia and nevada was moved up was for Barack HUSSIEN Obama..That way they could give a black man a very large union vote in Nevada and Blacks about 60 % in S.C. right out of the gate

The DNC can 'block' any voters they want, because it's their party. This is not a case of people being 'disenfranchised' in final elections. This is a group 'the Democrats' allowing people who call themselves Democrats to choose which candidate will represent 'the Democrats'. Does the fact that the Greens or the Independents or the Libertarians aren't allowed to vote in any given primary 'disenfranchising' them? No. They will all be equally 'enfranchised' in November. If you want to belong to one of the two major 'old boys' clubs (R or D) you play by the club rules. It's that simple. State politicians fell prey to hubris, and it turned out they weren't as powerful as they thought.

It is hilarious to me that this is even an issue. Why didn't it get press before? BOTH states knew full well what they were doing in absolute defiance of party rules. BOTH candidates signed off on the rules as well.

Might I remind everyone that this is a PRIMARY, not yet a presidential election. It is subject to the rules of the individual parties, NOT by constitutional law. The state govts. and their parties are responsible for this debacle, NOT the DNC.

And once again, Mrs. Clinton thinks these rules shouldn't apply to her. I have no side in this one, but she's making the Dems. look like a joke party (more so).

The last time I checked, we live in a country based on laws. We will have serious problems if we start letting people - especially politicians - bend and break those laws when it suits them.

It is unfortunate to the voters of MI and FL, but they need to take that up with their state elected officials. Those folks should be held accountable, not the DNC or either candidate.

This is not really about voter disenfranchisement, nor is it about endorsing Clinton vs endorsing Obama. It's about reflecting the will of voting democrats. Unfortunately in such close primary and caucus results, DNC agreements and rules have to be reviewed as they are not printed in stone. At a minumum, it should be voted on by the DNC in spite of Dr Dean's convictions. It is inexcusable to allow anyone to unwaveringly dictate the rules of the democratic party without arguement. This would be more divisive to the party. Allowing at least the consideration to count Michigan and Florida would reflect party unity by the DNC and would show that an honest effort has been made to reflect the will of the majority of democracts nationwide. This is the only way to avoid alienating voters from voting or provoking them to vote republican. And would allow the cards to fall as they may. CHUCK

Obama had the chance to have his name on the Michigan ballot, but he removed it by CHOICE.

Now that he realizes he might need those votes, or that Hillary might get them, he's complaining that it "wasn't fair" because his name wasn't on the ballot.

Hilarious!

The fact is, neither the Governors or Legislatures of Michigan or Florida "screwed" the voters.

They held elections in a way that was fair and equal to all candidates and all voters.

They then counted the votes cast in those elections.

They have also selected delegates to send to Denver for the convention.

The "screwing" did not come from the states, it is coming from the DNC in their refusal to seat those delegates.

It's amazing that so many people are defending the decision to shut out 2.3 million democratic votes cast between two of the most populous states in the country simply because they held their elections a couple of weeks before the DNC said they should.

The party should change its name to "The Stupid Arbitrary Rules Party," because there is nothing "democratic" about what they are doing.

When the democrats in Florida and Michigan decided to vote early in order to help decide the election early, they, the democrats, of the two states set up this problem. They are now blaming the republicans. They could have had their elections on a different day than the republicans. They chose to do it the same day.
We here in South Carolina had our democratic primary done on a different day than the republican primary.
Why did they not go this way? It would have been a lot cheaper and less trouble than what they are facing now.

Florida and Michigan were wrong. Period. They broke the rules. They were told what the penalties for doing so would be last August. They did it anyway. Furthermore, Florida is lying to their voters: http://election.dos.state.fl.us/online/faq.shtml#Elections. It says: Will my vote count? Yes. Then a long explanation that doesn't even explain how their vote counts. The point is, however, that they point-blank lie to voters when they say their vote does count.

Charlie Crist being on the short-list as a running mate for John McCain makes this whole business look rather suspect anyway. This is twice Florida has engineered an election - or at least tried to engineer it. Personally, we need to stop them before they get the opportunity.

Now we have Rush Limbaugh encouraging Republicans to change party affiliations and vote in these re-votes to ensure HRC gets the nomination. In Florida, they have 29 days to change parties. In Michigan, they don't even declare a party. They simply ask for the Democratic ballot at the precinct! Michigan will get twice as many voters in a re-vote than they did in the original - all for Hillary. And Rush will be the champion with this crossover contamination. The Republican radicals listen to his garbage.

No, I don't blame Obama.

DNC (for denying the delegates), the state offcials (for jumping the line) Hillary (for flip flopping) and the voters (for electing these irresponsible people) are resposnible for this mess.

No one has respect for rules/laws.

Paulo,

FYI - Same Pew poll you mentioned also says 25% of Hillary supporters may vote for McCain if Obama is the nominee.

Come June, Hillary will likely still be trailing Obama in pledged delegates, but with 300 or so Supers staying on the fence no one locks up the nomination.

Big problem for Obama is that Hillary quite likely will be AHEAD by then in the popular vote. SuperDelegates will take that into consideration, plus the fact she will have won 7 of the 8 most populous states (includes MI & FL).

If the Obama camps try to blocks a re-do in FL and MI and ends up trailing Hillary in the popular vote even without FL & MI, they'll be a big fight on the convention floor about fairness, counting all the votes, etc. and no amount of spin his supporters put out will get him the nomination. There's already Florida legislation put forth by FL Dems to deny the Dem nominee a spot on the ballot if their delegates aren't seated at the con.

If FL and MI conduct a re-do anyway with DNC's blessing despite howls of protest from the Obama camp, HRC will win even bigger in those states and may catch Obama in pledged delegates, too. It's simple. She'll campaign there on the fact that Obama wanted to deny their right to vote!

How might she catch Obama in pledged delegates? Because a re-do in Florida (haven't researched MI yet; depends on when they had their presidential primary in 2004) will give the state a 30% bonus in delegates if they have their primary between May 1 and June 10. If both states do this, that's about 81 extra delegates. (assigned proportional, just like before)

As of 3/8, HRC is ahead in total delegates by about 20 if you count FL and MI. That lead would then grow even more with the bonus.

Add to that an even bigger popular vote edge and there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that Obama gets the nomination. HRC wins on the first ballot.

Somebody please open the pendora's box. Let the WHITEWATER case open again. Where is Monica ?She should declear herself an independent presidencial candidate if Hillary get the nomination. In that case she will draw more democratic vote than Billary.

This is plain and simple. If you don't seat the Michigan and Florida delegates, McCain will be beating the Democratic nominee about that all year long. What happens? It is a no contest and McCain takes both states by landslide. That is why the delegates absolutely must be seated. The rules were stupid to begin with and stupid rules shouldn't stand unless the Democrats want to forfeit the Presidency right now. The DNC made a big error and now this is what it is. Florida should be seated as is but Michigan should have a do-over because Obama was not on the Ballot.

Obama has become a hindrance in solving this problem. If he thinks things should stand the way they are, he is in fact forfeiting the Presidency for the Democratic nomination. I guess he will always be the first black man to become the Democratic Nominee though he can't win the Presidency.

There are NO more morally bankrupt people than the clintons. they will say or do anything to get elected.
How ARROGANT to suggest Barack join her on her ticket! Hey honey, he leads in states, delagates and pop. vote! You got it backwards.
If the Clintons try to steal this thing, their will be rioting in the streets and citys will burn.
How ironic, the HillBilly team are trying to screw the very people that they have been massaging for votes for yrs.
Anyone now see their true stripes?

There are NO more morally bankrupt people than the clintons. they will say or do anything to get elected.
How ARROGANT to suggest Barack join her on her ticket! Hey honey, he leads in states, delagates and pop. vote! You got it backwards.
If the Clintons try to steal this thing, their will be rioting in the streets and citys will burn.
How ironic, the HillBilly team are trying to screw the very people that they have been massaging for votes for yrs.
Anyone now see their true stripes?

We learned it in Kindergarten , or sooner. You don`t change the rules after the game has started. Those who tried were recognized as cheaters and poor losers.

MI/FL broke the rules. Rules or rules. Don't blame Obama he's just sticking to the rules. Hilliary is an arrogant, dirty witch who will do anything to win. If she wins the norm. I will not vote for she or McCain boring ass.

HILLARY ALREADY WON FL WITH A HANDICAP.

Obama spent $1.3 million in Florida--more than any other Democratic candidate and more than eight Republican candidates, who were eligible to win delegates from the state.
That, from the Center for Responsive Politics. I realize that it's still going to be a fight to make the Democratic Party convention a 50-state event, rather than the 48-state event that some want it to be, but this puts to rest the notion that Obama didn't campaign in Florida.

To all the obama supporters babbling about the rules.

1. Obama broke the rules by running ad in Florida not Hillary.
2. By the rules super delegates have the right to vote for anyone they want so don't be offended if the Hillary get the nomination with super delegates votes.
3. Obama is blocking a redo in MI and in your comments you guys say that this proves Hillary would do anything to get the nomination???
4. You guys remind me of Ralph Nader in 2000. You guys should all know that if MI/FL are not seated then we would have McCain in the white house for 8 years but you still time and again refer to DNC rules as they are sacred. It seems that you don't think about anything except getting obama the nomination even if it is against the popular vote.
5. I am neither for Hillary nor for Obama but I wouldn't vote for any of them if they get the nomination against the popular vote including MI and FL. Screw the rules, people have the right to be heard. Isn't that what he is saying.

To Hillary supporters.

1. don't be sore loser's.
2. Stop the negative campaigning
3. Don't dare try to get the nomination against popular vote. I would for sure vote for McCain if that happens.

Three powerful forces benefit from dragging this process forward: The Clintons, the Republicans and the Media. Obama and the Democratic Party are going to have to step up to the plate now to protect the Party and our chances in November. Why spend 100 million dollars in redo's when the Clinton campaign is relying on Superdelegates anyway? She won't catch up in pledged delegates or popular vote, but she will bring the party down with her. Too bad for us.

I think people have it wrong! Barack Obama doesn't want to discount any one's vote during the primary. So all you folks saying he doesn't want a do over in Florida & Michigan quit fear mongering on BO's name. He said he will abide by what the DNC wants or rules. It is Hillary that has vehemently opposed the idea of caucuses in Michigan and has expressed what she wants and will accept yet she supported the rules initially even though she cunningly left her name on the ballots. Let BO be the candidate that he is honest and straight talking, not bending too low just to be nominated, so far he has won more states and that should count for something to you doubting Thomases. Plus what tells you he is going to lose? All the states he has narrowly lost, Hillary had been leading by more than 20% points and BO narrowed that to almost nearly 3% each time. Where Barack has won, it is by an overwhelming margin. Do you consider the gains in a short time or do you count percentages that were allocated to name recognition? Give BO some great and well deserved credit. Either way both are strong candidates, but so far most states agree (however small their numbers of pledged delegates are) that he is the stronger and better candidate!

If OBAMA loses Florida and Michigan and swillary catches up to win the nomination than this lifelong Democrat will be voting for McCain. I'll have no mercy for the people who put this "monster" in office. It'll be another Bush moment. People wake up! This is our chance to break away from corrupt politics. Read some of the CLINTON biographies, surf the net or watch the Hillary Movie clips. What aren't you getting?