On guns, DNC misses McCain's mark

"MR. FLIP FLOPPING JOHN MCCAIN SPEAKS"

I HAVE SENIOR MOMENTS PLEASE FORGIVE ME.

WHAT AM I SUPPOSE TO BELIEVE IN JOE?

OH! OH, OKAY, YES, I'M GOING TO HAVE TO FLIP FLOP AGAIN ON YET ANOTHER ISSUE RELATING TO GUN CONTROL.

I DO, I DON'T, I DO, I DON'T, I DO I DONT. WHAT JOE?

THAT SIMPLY MEANS, I'VE FLIPPED FLOPPED AGAIN, AND AGAIN, AND AGAIN, NOT LIKE JOHN KERRY, I'M DOING THIS ALL ON MY OWN.

I REALLY COULD CARE LESS EITHER WAY, BUT I NEED THE MONEY, THE VOTE, AND AMERICA'S "WILLING SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF" JUST A TAD BIT LONGER.

"THE STAKES ARE HIGH"

SO KEEP THAT FAITH
SO KEEP THAT COURAGE
LIBERTY IS PRICELESS.
I WON'T FLIP FLOP ON YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL VALUES. OR THE CONSTITUTION ITSELF.

AND UNTIL WE GET OUT OUR "REAL ID" IN DC, I WILL CONTINUE TO FLIP FLOP ON EVERY "ISSUES AND CHARACTER" WHILE STUMPING MY BID TO THE WHITE HOUSE.

WAS THAT GOOD BILL!
WAS THAT GOOD HANNITY!
WAS THAT GOOD KARL!
WAS THAT GOOD RUSH!
WAS THAT GOOD HAGEE!
WAS THAT GOOD CINDY!
WAS THAT GOOD VICKIE!
WAS THAT GOOD QWEST!
WAS THAT GOOD CONDI!

SO JUST DON'T REMEMBER WHAT YOU SEEN, HEARD OR VISUALIZED TODAY.

IT REALLY DIDN'T HAPPEN!

The democrats have started a $40 million lie machine led by David Brock to put swill like this out about Senator McCain. Thanks for being the only swampune reporter to accurately report their lies, Jill.
God I hope you're around the next time Obama opens his lying mouth.

Thank you, Roger, for your clear, concise, and cohesive message. It really straightened out the issue for all of us out here. By the way, how old are you? 13?

I suppose the NRA wackjobs support criminals buying guns legally through loopholes like this too, after all, their sacred 2nd amendment dosesn't say they can't, right? Nutjobs.

Gee whiz, another one who doesn't know how to post in forums without yelling. Its disgusting and a turn-off, so I for one, and I'm sure there's others as well, that won't read the **** thing. Maybe sooner or later the deadbeat won't continue to forget how to use the net(iquette) if he gets enough feedback for his own crudeness, all the while he's posting about someone else's faults...

Jill, thank you so much for writing this. Maybe now people will see how the DNC will lie and cajole, even when faced with facts. I think they need to look at their own candidates and point out every lie that Senators Obama and Clinton have spewed.

It's a shame that this will probably not reach the general public, or the national news.

Roger Morris has been drinking too much Kool Aid!

Let me get this straight. For over a decade John McCain has been a "Maverick."

Not always going along with his party.

Starting last month John McCain = George Bush.

I thought he was a Maverick?

Which is Democrats? Maverick or Bush Clone?

Funny thing is, our democratic "leaders" are only hurting themselves by spreading falsehoods. If McCain has flipped on the security hole, he hurts himself with supporters of gun control, and if he hasn't flipped, he hurts himself with the second amendment rights crowd. Just report the facts. By lying about it, liberal "leaders" are hurting themselves in every crowd, needlessly.

I'm sick of the nra running this country and continuing to ignore all the bloodshed and mayhem caused by their their boneheaded ignorance-based ideas. I hate guns and *I* vote too, morons.

Thats not the only thing he has flopped on....did anyone read the news today....Now McCain is wanting to look into the housing and market problem when last week he said that its not the govt duty to bail them out......I guess anyone can be convinced of whats popular when running for Prez

If Democrats didn't lie, they would be Republicans.

Have any of these people ever been to a gun show? I have been to many and have never met a single dealer who would sell a gun to a foreigner, much less a terrorist. Now domestic terrorism is a different story, but many an extremist has no criminal background and could there fore purchase one legally anyway.

Roger Morris - you are a friggin idiot!

McInsane's just flopping again and trying to blame it on the DNC! Don't be fooled by his trivial effort here to make himself look good...err I mean better - whatever!
McInsane is an idiot and is worthless POS!
Vote Democratic in November otherwise it will be politics as usual and I don't think ANYBODY in the entire world wants that!

MR. FLIP FLOPPING JOHN MCCane SPEAKS"

Dude Flip Flops so much, he got pwnd by bush now he is still behind. McCain is not strong enough.

What this article fails to take into account is that given the stance of the other two candidiates, which are clearly anti-2nd amendment, the nRA crowd will support McCain.

How can a lump like McCain be standing before us as a Republican Candidate while Ron Paul could do such a good job? We can thank our "free" press for this. Cowards and worse, for not reporting the news as it's made, and reported with integrity. If we, as citizens fall for this great American swindle, we deserve to loose our country and whatever pride we may have had as Americans.

Just what exactly is the "gun show loophole"? I attend them on a regular basis and every transaction I've made or observed has abided by state and federal law; proper forms are filled out and background checks are performed. Which of the more than ten thousand firearms laws on the books does this "loophole" apply to?

Jeff, do you hold Bush to the same level of accountability regarding his lies?

His actually affect people.

Too bad there is no such thing as the "gun control loophole".

All gun dealers at gun shows must go through the same process as usual to sell a firearm at a gun show.

However, a personal gun owner can very well go sell a firearm at a gun show- or anywhere else for that matter- without papers in most states.

That is how it should be. Do you think you can honestly keep people from selling firearms between themselves? There is no way to enforce that, for one.

"...but unlicensed gun sellers are not required to do that, making gun shows a popular shopping spot for criminals and potentially terrorists."

Do you have any proof to back that assertion? By "unlicensed gun sellers" you mean regular every day people who have a gun they want to sell. I'm sure criminals and terrorists are really looking for rusty single shot shotguns and old deer rifles. Yeah. Seriously. You've never been to a gun show, have you? Gun shows are most definitely not welcoming places for criminals and terrorists.

There is no such thing as a gun show loophole, so please stop using that fraudulent phrase. What's being proposed is an attempt to outlaw sales between private parties and it will have no effect on crime at all.

This sucks, who can us law abiding gun owners count on?

While Howard Dean may say, "It’s not to our advantage to push stories that aren’t true" Jill Zuckman seems to make up material for her stories which indeed there is no supporting evidence to back up anywhere. To wit: "...making gun shows a popular shopping spot for criminals and potentially terrorists."

Never met either at a gun show, and we have quite a few of them here in Arizona - Senator McCain's home state.

Here's the fact: private sales of firearms are limited in volume which means that a terrorist would have to negotiate and purchase their firearms one unit at a time and none of the weapons for private sale at a gun show are automatic. To purchase an automatic weapon a buyer and seller must have Federal Firearms Class III permit - something not that easy to acquire.

In the future, please educate yourself and do your homework (remember that word?) before going to press.

I don't understand how the author interprets it that way. If McCain can quoted saying that he does not support new gun control laws following the shootings at Virginia Tech, then it is obvious his website is wrong and the DNC has it correct. He needs to either go on the record to correct what he said after the shootings, or he needs to fix his website. For now I will just assume this was an honest mistake not an attempt to have it both ways.

You sound surprised by the fact that they are talking out of both sides of their mouth. Of course they are a bunch of liars and cheats. It's a prerequisite for becoming a political. That's politics. (Politics:: (read Poli – Ticks) Poli meaning 'many' and Ticks meaning 'blood sucking parasites'.

When everything else fails....LIE. The democrats must have learned well from boob, err, Bill Clinton. I don't care where you stand as long as you can state the facts only, don't want to hear your looney antics...

"... making gun shows a popular shopping spot for criminals and potentially terrorists."

This assertion is unsupported by the facts. Less than 1% of all guns used in crimes are purchased at gun shows. See http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/fuo.htm
"Popular"? Your bias is showing.

Why would a criminal looking to buy a gun go to a very public gun show rather then buying a gun in a back alley from another criminal, or simply stealing it?

There is no "gun show loophole." All sellers at gun shows must obey all federal and state firearms laws, none of which have exceptions - intentional or otherwise - for sales occurring at gun shows.

As for "separating McCain from the NRA," the alternatives are *worse*. Nothing the Democrats can say, truth or lie, can change that. Do they truly think saying that McCain supports a law that "closes the gun show loophole" would make gun owners and firearms rights advocates want to reject him in favor of candidates who want to eliminate almost all private ownership of pistols and semiautomatic rifles?

democrats are lying about mccain. mccain is lying about gun control. obama's lying mouth, blah blah blah. hey, guess what? all politicians lie. they just want your vote. why do people still act so shocked at this, or try to defend one over the other? eternal idealism?
you just have to try to pick out plausible truths in the lies. like truth: mccain flip flopped on the mlk holiday. hey, if you're going to vote against it before, why not stay the course? apparently that's an important factor for neocons, since we continue to pour a never ending stream of millions into the sandbox.

Where do you people get YOUR info??? Only LICENSED dealers are permitted to sell firearms at gunshows. AND for all you ignorant anti gun freaks, EVERYONE purchasing a firearm AT A GUN SHOW still has to have a background check. Too bad none of the candidates have the balls to support the LAW ABIDING gun owners in this country.

Democratic lie machine? Are you right wing fruitcakes even awake anymore, let alone cognitive?

Think for yourselves, dumbos! The epublicans don't even know what the word "truth" means anymore. Forget these smallfry things the cowardly Democrats do, they should attack you people for the constant lying and you know of it, you don't even care about untruths as long as you get your way. What a bunch of fools you are, if we have any history in the future and any educated people to read it they will see the legacy of Bush as failure from beginning to end, an enormous set of lies from election day 2000 until today, a series of incompetence, arrogance, foolishness,,,,they proved through yheir administration how privatization leads to total incompetence, both in Iraq with their toady contractors and in this country. from Katrina to how they couldn't even tell the truth in EPA, OSHA, distributing money in Iraq which all was stolen, to the dumb idiocy of arresting all Iraqi males, putting bags over their heads and treating them all like they were Saddam Hussein without a care at all that these were exactly who we were supposed to be liberating.

Yeah let's promote democracy where they vote for Hamas and Hezbollah and then act confused, go into Afghanistan and not complete the job, instead deciding to destabilize the middle east more, making Iran more powerful.

The Democrats may be silly at times, have absolutely no PR skills in Congress, no courage to confront Republican obstructionism through their phantom filibusters.....but the Republicans seem evil and arrogant and their followers, those few still left are dupes, lemmings, total illiterates, even the educated ones, never once correct in 8 years..

Why were 5 of the 9/11 hijackers living at Pensacola Naval Base? Why has it been sop unbelievably difficult to find the anthrax killer? I would ask more questions but Republicans are either airheads or disingenious and will never respond or pay the slightest atention. If this had been Clinton doing all this toadyism, intrigue and avoidance, he would have been convicted and exiled by now....you people are phony, so phony, so unbelievably phony (or incredibly naive and irretrievably dumb.

You anti gun, anti rights anti constitution crowd are left wing wackos. You are fooling yourself to think crime is affected by your gun control efforts. The real illness in America is the permissiveness of your liberal society that fosters worthless sick people and belittles hard work, honesty, and most every other fabric a healthy community cherishes. I hope every other citizen who truely loves freedom and our country is buying guns and ammo as fast as they can because you communist styled limosine liberals want to enlsave us. I dont intend to allow you to destroy everything good in the USA and I think alot of people agree. Its time to settle these differences.Once and for all.

Face it - all candidates flip flop according to the latest poll data, they all pander to what they think will get them elected. And it works. The true shame is that we fall for it time and time again. I seriously doubt we know actual personal views on the majority of debated topics, because if anyone actually tells how they feel, they are bound to hurt somebody's feelings, and we can't do that in America. We need a legitimate third party to get real dialogue and meaningful differences outlined. The lines between the two party system are too blurred over time, and politics shows itself to still be the grimy show it has always been - we just have more coverage of the BS now. Because I can't resist a comment on the gun issue - just because McCain sponsored a law supporting the closing of a random loophole in gun control laws doesn't mean he is not affected by NRA policy. They read polls too, and the general opinion seems to swing against gun violence right now. If they can make themselves look good by getting this deal passed, which as several here have mentioned can't possibly have that great an effect, then it's worth it. They are not stupid; sadly, it's the average American who gets duped, Democrat or Republican.

John McCain
on Protecting Second Amendment Rights

John McCain believes that the right of law abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is a fundamental, individual Constitutional right that we have a sacred duty to protect. We have a responsibility to ensure that criminals who violate the law are prosecuted to the fullest, rather than restricting the rights of law abiding citizens. Gun control is a proven failure in fighting crime. Law abiding citizens should not be asked to give up their rights because of criminals - criminals who ignore gun control laws anyway.
Gun Manufacturer Liability

John McCain opposes backdoor attempts to restrict Second Amendment rights by holding gun manufacturers liable for crimes committed by third parties using a firearm, and has voted to protect gun manufacturers from such inappropriate liability aimed at bankrupting the entire gun industry.

"Neither justice nor domestic peace are served by holding the innocent responsible for the acts of the criminal."

-Senator John McCain

Assault Weapons

John McCain opposes restrictions on so-called "assault rifles" and voted consistently against such bans. Most recently he opposed an amendment to extend a ban on 19 specific firearms, and others with similar characteristics.

Importation of High Capacity Magazines

John McCain opposes bans on the importation of certain types of ammunition magazines and has voted against such limitations.

Gun Locks

John McCain believes that every firearms owner has a responsibility to learn how to safely use and store the firearm they have chosen, whether for target shooting, hunting, or personal protection. He has supported legislation requiring gun manufacturers to include gun safety devices such as trigger locks in product packaging.

Banning Ammunition

John McCain believes that banning ammunition is just another way to undermine Second Amendment rights. He voted against an amendment that would have banned many of the most commonly used hunting cartridges on the spurious grounds that they were "armor-piercing."

DC Personal Protection

As part of John McCain's defense of Second Amendment rights, he cosponsored legislation to lift a ban on the law abiding citizens of the District of Columbia from exercising their Constitutional right to bear arms.

Criminal Background Checks

John McCain supports instant criminal background checks to help prohibit criminals from buying firearms and has voted to ensure they are conducted thoroughly, efficiently, and without infringing on the rights of law abiding citizens.

Background Checks at Gun Shows

At a time when some were trying to shut down gun shows in the name of fighting crime, John McCain tried to preserve gun shows by standardizing sales procedures. Federal law requires licensed firearm sellers at gun shows to do an instant criminal background check on purchasers while private firearm sellers at gun shows do not have to conduct such a check. John McCain introduced legislation that would require an instant criminal background check for all sales at gun shows and believes that such checks must be conducted quickly to ensure that unnecessary delays do not effectively block transactions.

The Firearm Purchase Waiting Period

John McCain has opposed "waiting periods" for law abiding citizen's purchase of firearms.

The confiscation of firearms after an emergency

John McCain opposes the confiscation of firearms from private citizens, particularly during times of crisis or emergency. He voted in favor of an amendment sponsored by Senator David Vitter prohibiting such confiscation.

Stiffer Penalties for Criminals who use a Firearm in the Commission of a Crime

John McCain believes in strict, mandatory penalties for criminals who use a firearm in the commission of a crime or illegally possess a firearm. Enforcing the current laws on the books is the best way to deter crime.

I lived in England for a number of years and can honestly say that the extreme gun measures there did not prevent the Hungerford massacre, or the school shooting taking place. Now with an almost complete ban on guns there is still a level of violence far in excess of what you would expect. Its true that not so many with guns but a crossbow does just as good a job.
Its time for the politicians to leave aside the red herrings like gun control and abortion and focus on the real things that affect most people like jobs, the economy, and the war in Iraq and get this country back on its feet again.

Quote:
"The democrats have started a $40 million lie machine led by David Brock to put swill like this out about Senator McCain. Thanks for being the only swampune reporter to accurately report their lies, Jill.

God I hope you're around the next time Obama opens his lying mouth.

Posted by: Jeff | April 10, 2008 4:20 PM "

They learned from the best; the famed republican attack machine. Its ironic that conservatives are lamenting the fact that you crossed that line. You've already stolen at least 2 elections with these tactics and its time for a taste of your own medicine.

I agree with the "Media guy" form above that I thought the gun rules applied to both show and shop sellers, thus there is no loophole. That said though, I am not the most well versed on gun control laws. I've had my shotgun for 20 years now.

My comment on the article is this: Does Howard Dean really need any help messing up the DNC? I think he is doing a fine job, without this idiot Allen Rivlin helping out!!

Oh, and Roger Morris is a pathetic person that is starving for attention folks. He loves the negative feedback, even though I have yet to read his response to one.

I'd like to join Larry in applauding Roger's AMAZINGLY TRENCHANT observations on...whatever he was observing. His POWERFUL ARGUMENTS were made even more effective by typing them in CAPITAL LETTERS. This a technique I would like to EMULATE, but find it hard to hold the SHIFT KEY down for extended periods of time. Perhaps there's a short cut. In any case, Roger's words give me GREAT HOPE that an informed electorate will choose the most qualified candidate to lead the world's only remaining superpower.

"PRIVATE EQUITY GUN SHOW OWNERS SPEAK"

We are private, we can do whatever we want.

We are private, we can control the very bullets needed in your very needed guns.

We are private, we can flip flop if we want, because we are a PRIVATE EQUITY GUN SHOW OWNER and we do not have to abide by American Gun Laws.

We are private and we will extend all of our gun rights to our offshore PRIVATE EQUITY GUN FIRMS and now control all guns manufactured in the United States.

SO NO GUNS FOR YOU.
AMERICA, NO BULLETS FOR YOU, AMERICA.

WHY DO YOU THINK OUR OWN SOLDIERS ARE BEGGING FOR BULLETS FROM A FOREIGN BASED PRIVATE GUN SHOW OWNER.

I JOHN MCCAIN SUPPORT THIS AD.

Don't worry we have a Private Equity Gun Show Owner coming to your Gun Shows soon.

Ya'll better show up now here!

"PRIVATE EQUITY GUN SHOW OWNERS SPEAK"

We are private, we can do whatever we want.

We are private, we can control the very bullets needed in your very needed guns.

We are private, we can flip flop if we want, because we are a PRIVATE EQUITY GUN SHOW OWNER and we do not have to abide by American Gun Laws.

We are private and we will extend all of our gun rights to our offshore PRIVATE EQUITY GUN FIRMS and now control all guns manufactured in the United States.

SO NO GUNS FOR YOU.
AMERICA, NO BULLETS FOR YOU, AMERICA.

WHY DO YOU THINK OUR OWN SOLDIERS ARE BEGGING FOR BULLETS FROM A FOREIGN BASED PRIVATE GUN SHOW OWNER.

I JOHN MCCAIN SUPPORT THIS AD.

Don't worry we have a Private Equity Gun Show Owner coming to your Gun Shows soon.

Ya'll better show up now here!

Howard is doing one heckuva job, xcellentform. If it weren't him, Jimmy Carter and Reverend Wright I don't know what we'd do. They're all getting fruitcake this christmas/kwanzaa.

Apparently, the so called "gun show loophole" is in the imaginations of those who would outlaw, or at least heavily restrict firearms sales and firearmes possession, as proposed by the previous Clinton Administration. The same background checks and paperwork have to be complied with at gun shows as well retail businesses. What is this loophole, and where does it exist? Even the existing laws greatly impede on the individual Constitutional right to own and bear arms, Fortunately, the individual states adhered to the wishes of the American people and circumvented the unconstitutional Brady laws to the point that Brady is ineffective; so be it.

I am happy to say that many of us in law enforcement had a hand in the instant check (v. waiting periods) and the ever popular concealed carry laws that now allow concealed weapons following appropriate training in almost all states; all while the Clinton administration and the mainstream press tried to make the false implication that most law enforcement officers were in favor of strictor firearms laws.

I have since retired from law enforcement and embarked on a short career with Department of Defense where I had served for several months in Iraq, I could not help but notice that even Iraqi citizens are permitted to be armed, and how armed robbery, burglary and individual assaults in that country actually dropped when arms were common among law abiding citizans.

If John McCain supports the Constitutional interpretation of an individual right to own and bear arms, then he certainly has my vote.

McCain = Bush. Bye bye maverick status, hello corporate stooge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioy90nF2anI

Fred Evil, the last time I checked Bush's name wasn't on the ballot. I'm VERY satisfied with the standard of honest McCain is setting for this race.

I'd like to join Larry in applauding Roger's AMAZINGLY TRENCHANT observations on...whatever he was observing. His POWERFUL ARGUMENTS were made even more effective by typing them in CAPITAL LETTERS. This a technique I would like to EMULATE, but find it hard to hold the SHIFT KEY down for extended periods of time. Perhaps there's a short cut. In any case, Roger's words give me GREAT HOPE that an informed electorate will choose the most qualified candidate to lead the world's only remaining superpower.

Posted by: Vincimus | April 10, 2008 6:40 PM

Ain't it the truth. ROGER CAPS LOCK off.