by Frank James, updated at 7:00 pm EDT with McCain campaign response.
There's a lot of chatter about the video of Sen. John McCain acknowledging in 2006 the necessity of U.S. officials dealing with Hamas.
It came when McCain was interviewed between sessions at the Davos economics conference in Switzerland by Jamie Rubin, the former Clinton State Department official who was working in television at the time.
Asked if U.S. officials should deal with the Palestinian government, McCain said:
"They're the government; sooner or later we are going to have to deal with them, one way or another. And I understand why this administration and previous administrations had such antipathy towards Hamas because of their dedication to violence and the things that they not only espouse but practice
"But it's a new reality in the Middle East. I think the lesson is people want security and a decent life and decent future, that they want democracy. Fatah was not giving them that."
It should go without saying that this is something of a problem for McCain. He's been using Hamas to beat-up on Sen. Barack Obama in recent days.
A leader of Hamas, the political and terrorist organization the Palestinian people put in power through democratic elections, caused a stir when he indicated Hamas would prefer a President Obama to a President McCain, which gave McCain a new line of attack against Obama.
McCain and supporters like Mitt Romney, have also attacked Obama for saying, during one of the Democratic debates that as president he would, without conditions, meet during his first year in officer with nations with inimical interests towards the U.S. such as Iran and North Korea.
But, again, it appears that McCain's argument against Obama is weakened somewhat by the video. It will interesting to see how the McCain campaign spins this.
UPDATE: The McCain campaign is pushing back hard against the Jamie Rubin videotape. How hard? The subject line in the e-mail sent the campaign has sent out is "JAMIE RUBIN LIED."
Brian Rogers, the campaign spokesman, writes this:
All: Today, Jamie Rubin made a charge against John McCain. Every one of your news organizations put him on the air and covered his charges that John McCain flip-flopped on engagement with Hamas. Now we know that Jamie Rubin didn't tell the truth.
As the entire video -- just posted on SkyNews -- clearly shows, John McCain absolutely did not advocate unconditional engagement with Hamas. Indeed, Rubin conveniently cut off his follow-up question to which McCain was clear that any engagement with Hamas would be conditioned on their actions and policies -- that any actions would be "dictated by how Hamas acts, not how the United States acts.
Here's the longer video segment the McCain campaign says proves Rubin lied.
Here's the transcript for the longer video:
Jamie Rubin: "Do you think that American diplomats should be operating the way they have been in the past, in working with the Palestinian government if Hamas is in now charge?"
Sen. John McCain: "They're the government and sooner or later we're going to have to deal with them in one way or another, and I understand why this administration and previous administrations had such antipathy towards Hamas is because of their dedication to violence and the things they not only espouse but practice, so, but it's a new reality in the Middle East. And I think the lesson is people want security and a decent life and a decent future then they want democracy. Fatah was not giving them that."
Rubin: "So should the United States be dealing with that new reality through normal diplomatic contacts to get the job done for the United States?"
Sen. McCain: "I think the United States should take a step back, see what they do when they form their government, see what their policies are, and see the ways that we can engage with them, and if there aren't any, there may be a hiatus. But I think part of the relationship is going to be dictated by how Hamas acts, not how the United States acts."
The Rogers e-mail continues to point out to makes this point:
Note this matches up with Sen. McCain's CNN interview that same day in Davos, in which McCain conditions any engagement on Hamas renouncing its commitment to the extinction of Israel:
From Davos, John McCain Says Hamas Must Renounce Its Commitment To The Extinction Of The State Of Israel. CNN'S BETTY NGUYEN: " All right, let's shift over to the global front. The Bush administration is reviewing all aspects of U.S. aid to the Palestinians now that Hamas has won the elections. And I do have to quote you here. A State Department spokesman did say this: 'To be very clear' - and I'm quoting now - 'we do not provide money to terrorist organizations.' What does this do to the U.S. relationship with the Palestinians?" MCCAIN: "Well, hopefully, that Hamas now that they are going to govern, will be motivated to renounce this commitment to the extinction of the state of Israel. Then we can do business again, we can resume aid, we can resume the peace process." (CNN's "Saturday Morning News," 1/28/06)
So what should we make of this? Here's what I think. Rubin and McCain are talking past each other.
Rubin's point is that McCain accepted the premise two years ago that the U.S. would have to talk to Hamas since it was (and remains) in the Palestinian government. That does appear to be what McCain was saying.
The McCain campaign's point is that their candidate was careful to condition any interaction with Hamas on its behavior. That does come across clearly in the video. It's an important point for McCain because Obama's on-record saying he would meet without conditions with sovereign states whose interests are inimical to the U.S.'s.
But Rubin's point is not that McCain didn't place conditions on discussions with Hamas. Rather, he was saying that McCain was open to talking with Hamas as the elected representatives of the Palestinian people.
McCain did say what Rubin says he said.
Still, the McCain camp is making a valid distinction between their man and Obama. Their candidate placed pre-existing conditions on talks, that's clear. And he held out the possibility that there could be no talks.
This argument between McCain's campaign and Rubin is essentially irreconcilable because it's in neither's interest to give an inch.
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Comments
Well, it is either a flip flop or he is a liar--you decide!
Posted by: Janstress | May 16, 2008 4:53 PM
Thank you swamp.
Posted by: bill "Hussein" r. | May 16, 2008 4:53 PM
It's the John McCain "Doubletalk Express!"
Posted by: Ralph | May 16, 2008 4:55 PM
Bush's foreign policy has been an utter failure of unmitigated proportions.
Bush's remarks in Israel are a black eye on every citizen of the United States.
McCain suggesting that anyone who does not agree is a Chamberlain are outrageous and gives you a view of what his first term if elected president will be like.
It is an embarrassment to our entire country in front of the world and how Bush could have stayed in office this long is beyond my comprehension.
Posted by: Deward Bowles | May 16, 2008 5:12 PM
What do you expect from Senator " Questionable Conduct " McCain ?!! He gets confused very easy, these days! I wonder if he remembers what he did with all of the campaign contributions from Charles Keating, of the S & L Scandals, over $ 112,000, in 1987 !! I know he hasn't forgotten the junkets, Keating financed for him and his family !! There are some voters who want a person of this questionable integrity in our White House, I think, though, most Americans would prefer someone with a lot less baggage and more integrity !! Go, Senator Obama, you are America's choice !!!
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, BRING THEM HOME, ALIVE. NOW.
Posted by: Don Fitzgerald, Chicago | May 16, 2008 5:16 PM
So having a functionary of our government communicate with another government is the same as an unconditional face to face meeting with the president?
I know keeping to your agenda is very important but a little objectivity may help your credibility.
Posted by: whatnow | May 16, 2008 5:16 PM
We'll be hearing a lot more flip-flops from McCain before he limps on back home after November.
Posted by: Rick/Sneads Ferry, NC | May 16, 2008 5:21 PM
JOHN "PRESCOTT BUSH" MCCAIN SPEAKS"
I HEARD THE VOICES TOO!
SO WHAT IF I FLIP FLOP ON EVERY ISSUE IN AMERICA.
I'M 72 YEARS OLD, OLDER THAN FRANKENSTEIN ON A $58,000 VA DISABILITY.
I READ THE "TELEPROMPTER" IT WASN'T A "SENIOR MOMENT" IT WAS A $100,000 NO DEAL IS A DONE DEAL FLIP FLOP MOVE ON MY PART.
I REMEMBER THE ELECTIONS. WE ALL REMEMBER THE ELECTION IN PALESTINE. IT WAS A RICK RENZI FEDERAL LAND SWAP DEAL GONE ASTRAY!
"APPEASEMENT" WAS ON THE TABLE. IT WAS A DONE DEAL GONE ASTRAY.
I REMEMBER, NOW YOU DO TOO!
"GOD WANTS WORLD CUP NOT FALSE PROPHETS"
Posted by: Roger Morris | May 16, 2008 5:24 PM
Flip Flop is correct....give the spin right back to where it started, the repub's.
Fed up with the lies and spin? Vote Democrat to smile again.
Posted by: N. Parr | May 16, 2008 5:37 PM
Appeaser! Traitor! Terrorist sympathsier!
And he's not wearing a flag pin!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Victor | May 16, 2008 5:37 PM
Take off the question mark. The man blantantly changed positioned, he flip-flopped. But I guess it's only Democrats who can't change their minds on anything, right?
Posted by: Paul | May 16, 2008 5:42 PM
This from a President that allowed have the Bin Laden family escape FBI interrogation after 911, who held hands with the King of Saudi Arabia like a 13 year old on her first date, while that same king financed madrassahs that advocate killing all Americans? The same President that wants a "dialogue" with Myanmar? The same President that (fill in the blank folks)....LOL. This President is lucky he's not under arrest for treachery, forget about his opinions concerning democrats. He has no credibility with Jews, Blacks or Americans, so, who the heck cares what he says or where or when he says it???
Posted by: Owl | May 16, 2008 5:45 PM
America funded terrorist organizations in Afghanistan - America funded Osama Bin Laden's organization against the Soviets - when they drove the Soviets out, naturally they wanted to drive the Americans out as well. America funded Saddam Hussein. America sold Saddam Hussein his WMDs (youtube "rumsfeld saddam"). American Republicans supported the CONTRA terrorists. Bush supports and talks to North Korea. He's ready to bend over and scratch Kim's special areas to appease him. But until Kim detonated his first nuclear bomb, Bush et Republicans were _ALL AGAINST_ talking to North Korea. ISOLATE ISOLATE ISOLATE AXIS OF EVIL EVIL EVIL EVIL NO TALK NO TALK FREEZE ASSETS GAY MARRIAGE GAY MARRIAGE PROTECT THE CHILDREN GAY MARRIAGE EVERYTHING IS FINE WMD WMD WMD GAY MARRIAGE - how about "The American people are losing their jobs, here is what we'll do about it" instead we're spending 600 billion dollars so Bush can play in the sand - that is probably more than enough to fund health insurance for everyone, and free education for every American.. Then NK built and detonated a nuclear bomb which might have been prevented had we not refused to talk to them. Now Bush has buddy buddy time with Korea's dictator, Bush's administration has talked to Libya... need I go on? The collective memory and education in history of the general American population is very short and very limited.
Regards,
Paul
Posted by: Paul D. | May 16, 2008 5:47 PM
So having a functionary of our government communicate with another government is the same as an unconditional face to face meeting with the president?
I
Posted by: whatnow | May 16, 2008 5:16 PM
No it isn't. I think it's great that Obama has the confidence to take on any world leader face to face and to be able to present the US position forcefully, intelligently and firmly. It appears that Bush and McCain don't have that confidence and are scared that they will come off looking worse than the foriegn leader. I don't disagree with them in that assesment. The two of them probably should be scared of what would happen.
Obama knows he has the ability to be the face of a strong, confident US. He doesn't need to hide and cower like the Republicans. Let the other guys be worried about meeting with Obama.
Posted by: Victor | May 16, 2008 5:47 PM
More BS from Mr Straight-talker/Maverick i. e. John McBush
McCain had a golden opportunity to distance himself from AWOL Bush (no head of state should do domestic politics from the parliament chambers of a foreign nation), and instead turned toward the idiot -- gave Bush the bear hug and tried to go after Obama with it.
When it comes to "straight- talk" through politics, McCain is bigtime stupid.
Posted by: John E | May 16, 2008 5:55 PM
PANDER BEAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFDc4M_PMNk
Posted by: Anton Chigurh | May 16, 2008 5:58 PM
Ore we could actually provide context. First of all, "dealing with" Hamas doesn't mean having tea with them. Second, here's his statement from January '06 after they won the election:
"In the wake of yesterday’s Palestinian elections, Hamas must change itself fundamentally - renounce violence, abandon its goal of eradicating Israel and accept the two-state solution. These elections are evidence that democracy is indeed spreading in the Middle East, but Hamas is not a partner for peace so long as they advocate the overthrow of Israel."
And in a CNN interview a few days later:
"Well, hopefully, that Hamas now that they are going to govern, will be motivated to renounce this commitment to the extinction of the state of Israel. Then we can do business again, we can resume aid, we can resume the peace process."
He supported talks after they "renounce this commitment to the extinction of Israel". After they governed as an actual political party.
"Vote Democrat to smile again."
Yeah, because we were all smiling during the Carter years.
Posted by: Sathete | May 16, 2008 6:00 PM
Maverick McBush had a campaign staffer who was working for him in Michigan who has ties to Hezbollah:
-
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/04/the-mccain-hezb.html
Going over sea's and taking shots at your political opponents back home like Bush did is shockingly pathetic but then I've come to expect this kind of stuff from our dumber than a bag of rocks Republican Decider Guy and his little sock puppet pal, John W McCain.
Posted by: John E | May 16, 2008 6:04 PM
Yeah, because we were all smiling during the Carter years.
Posted by: Sathete | May 16, 2008 6:00 PM
How far back would you like to go...nixon...nero...
Posted by: bill "Hussein" r. | May 16, 2008 7:14 PM
I see Senator " Questionable Conduct " McCain is going to take the Bush Special to our White House, if we let him !! He is not going to present his message to the nation, he's going to recite in front of the standard, Neocon, Ridiculous Republicans and their automatons: the NRA, the " Military-Industrial Complex ", Anti-Abortionist, just to name one or two. The Lobbyists told him to do it !! They told him, that he doesn't have to answer to anyone, but the money boys, the likes of Charles Keating, Haliburton, and that whole range of war-profiteering Corporations, the Rediculous Republicans can count on to buy their way to our White House !! This is the gang you want in our White House ?!! I sure hope not, 8 years have been enough of this Incompetence !! It is your country, if you really, honestly think President Bush did this country proud, vote for Senator McCain, if not, than vote for Senator Barack Obama . It is as simple as that !!
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, BRING THEM HOME, ALIVE. NOW.
Posted by: Don Fitzgerald, Chicago | May 16, 2008 7:50 PM
So much for experience. He should've just said bomb-bomb-bomb-bomb Hamas.
Posted by: RomanB | May 16, 2008 8:15 PM
The Democ"rats" they just love that Obama and dare I say "EVIL" they want to talk to "EVIL" because if we just talk with "EVIL' they will become "GOOD" I say the only "good" EVIL is a "DEAD EVIL"
I Know I am an EXTREMIST on this but I rather be a LIVE EXTREMIST than DEAD.
Posted by: VJ Machiavelli | May 17, 2008 12:50 AM
He's yer basic GOP liar. The McBush doctrine: Ignorance Is Strength, Stupidity is Wisdom, War is Peace, Lies are the truth, Superstition is Science and Reason is Elitism.
Posted by: Logic Prisoner | May 17, 2008 1:04 AM
The current Administration's foreign and domestic policies have brought this country to the brink of bankruptcy and have seriously damaged what was the finest miltary in the world. Today, right now, there are millions of people on the edge of starvation, a worldwide crisis, because of drought, warfare (dispossessed and displaced by force of arms like the Palestinians and those in Darfur and Eritrea) and natural disasters such as those now in Myanmar and China. Under a sensible Administration (not one which totally overreacted to the criminal acts of a few religious radicals on 9/11 by declaring a "war on terrorism" and by looking for a country to attack militarily to make itself appear creditable after a close and debatable election) our country would now be in a position to aid with great national pride and satisfaction those in need; gaining the respect and admiration of the many needy citizens (the so-called man on the street) worldwide. One of the countries reported today to be in economic distress for a lack of affordable food is Afghanistan while in the adjoining article it is reported that this Administration is about to spend some 60 million dollars to build a first class prison in that country to house those we capture on the battlefield. In another adjoining report closer to home, our fellow citizens who, for whatever reason, rely on food stamps to feed their families are being ever stressed by the increasing cost of food with the next annual COLA not due until October. In some instances blame may be assigned to adult behavior but make no mistake about the suffering of the innocent children involved. This Administration has never had any conception of what should be truly important for us as a people to properly fulfill our role as the leading nation in the world. Clearly, waving the flag and rattling sabers gets you very little respect these days.
Posted by: Frank | May 17, 2008 2:00 AM
John McCain sold his country down the river. He will make Bush look good if he gets elected. I for one will never support him. Barack Obama is an honest, good man. They republican sleaze machine is just getting warmed up. McCain is a two faced liar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFDc4M_PMNk
Posted by: Carl Hanlon | May 17, 2008 6:56 AM
Former Clinton official Rubin has already been exposed as a liar on this. See www.redstate.org, which comments:
"All day today the MSM and left blogs have been on the warpath about Hamas. The Golden Child feels he was slighted by the hated Bush and the enemy McCain, and the media acolytes will have none of it.
Jamie Rubin took point on their attack. In an article for the Washington Post titled "Hypocrisy on Hamas" and cutely subtitled "McCain Was for Talking Before He Was Against It," Rubin contended that Senator McCain has flip-flopped his position. News outlets and bloggers have been playing his edited clip from an old interview with similar degrees of delight.
As Soren Dayton noted earlier the story is a lot of hogwash, which the editors of the Washington Post let squeak right onto the page, either with no oversight, or worse, with oversight. Obviously Senator McCain's position remains now as it was then, no unconditional meetings with Hamas.
Well now the full video is available and Rubin's creative editing exposed. Watch the whole thing, you know, now that you can."
Naturally, Obama's Swamp allies spread the Rubin lie.
Posted by: Bruce | May 17, 2008 8:59 AM
The Democ"rats" they just love that Obama and dare I say "EVIL" they want to talk to "EVIL" because if we just talk with "EVIL' they will become "GOOD" I say the only "good" EVIL is a "DEAD EVIL"
I Know I am an EXTREMIST on this but I rather be a LIVE EXTREMIST than DEAD.
Posted by: VJ Machiavelli | May 17, 2008 12:50 AM
A great example of a whacked out republican. He probably voted for Huckabee.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2PC8Zy2n7A&feature=related
Posted by: McCain Is More Bush | May 17, 2008 9:52 AM
If Bush wanted to launch a political attack, he should have done it on US soil. The attack itself is baseless, but to do it in the Middle East at a celebration of Israel's 60 years is entirely unexcuseable.
McCain is a lapdog. That was clearly proven through these events.
I am embarassed for us because our process of electing a candidate has become a reality show, more than a contest of issues and policies. The world is watching, and they are laughing at us. Our new president will have been so disrespected by the time he is elected, the world will have trouble respecting him when he takes office. It is sad.
Posted by: Susan | May 17, 2008 11:52 AM