McCain's simplistic reason for pricey gas

Frank James' simplistic attempt to attack any candidate not named Obama.

Frank, I know you're not very good at math but when OPEC controls more oil supply than any other group in the world - whether it's 40% or 90% - they have the power to hold back supply and drive prices up. That's what McCain was saying and he's entirely right that they can control the world's oil prices by stepping up production or holding back their oil. It's not like the other disparate 60% of producers are all going to work together (like OPEC's member producers do) to increase their collective supply to force OPEC to play by their pricing rules. They're all individual international businesses with their own business objectives and none of them have the collective power that OPEC enjoys.
I think McCain should come around on drilling in ANWAR. The part that would be drilled in is such a small part of the entire reserve that it wouldn't be as intrusive as the left has made it out to be. I'm a Roosevelt fan, too, but the Alaskans are for drilling in ANWAR because of the economic developement it'd bring to their community and if the locals are for it then I'm for it.

Riiight, Jeff... so you agree with Johnny Macs assessment of the reason for high gas prices??

Whether you like it or not; there WILL be a new President, named Barack.

Jeff's simplistic attempt to defend McCain from any criticism even when legitimate.

Hmmm, I seem to recall many, many, many megabytes of cyberspace devoted to the Left's simplistic reason for pricey gas: It's all the fault of Bush and his "Oil Buddies." Or now does supply and demand actually have something to do with it?

Roger,Only if John McCain changes his name to Barack McCain. With media like Frank James it'd probably be a good move.
McCain is right that OPEC is a big problem. We need more domestic production so we're not as dependent on their fixed-price oil. That's why he REALLY needs tobe open to drilling in ANWAR as O'Reilly pointed out. Yes, the demand in China has caused huge supply shortfalls but this country is never going to be able to control prices so long as it's dependant on foreign oil. American oil, whether it comes from ANWAR or under the Gulf of Mexico, is the best bulwark against the price instability that's plagued us recently. At least until we can get a decent high speed electric rail system between our major cities and more suburban commuting options that don't involve cars.

Republican math:

40%="virtually all"

No wonder we run such huge deficits every time we elect a Republican.

I guess by jeffs' thinking...virtually all of America believes Iraq was a mistake and do not support it.

Michael, what is LEGITIMATE about refusing to admit, as Obama lackey James does, that OPEC controls the single largest group of oil producers in the world?
OPEC nations still account for two-thirds of the world's oil reserves, and, as of March 2008, 35.6% of the world's oil production (not 40% as James states), affording them considerable control over the global market. The next largest group of producers, members of the OECD and the Post-Soviet states produced only 23.8% and 14.8%, respectively. No other group controls as much as OPEC does!
According to OPEC's statute, the principal goal of the cartel is to determine the best means for safeguarding their member nation's interests, individually and collectively. In 1973 that meant a politically-motivated oil embargo. Yet you and Frank James think they have no power to control price. Unreal.

Jeff,
Stop now! You are embarassing yourself. We get most of our fuel domestically, from Canada, and from Venezuela. Very little comes to us from the Middle East. We already are not "as dependent on their fixed-price oil".

Hmmmmmm. If the basic problem with the high cost of gas ISN'T the cartels (and I happen to be of the opinion that "OPEC" is far from the end reason), then it's obvious the Republicans in general and the President in particular haven't done NEARLY enough in our interests since the price has started spiraling upward. They were in control of every possible avenue to negotiating lower prices, so not doing so obviously is their fault. On the other hand, (and this one's the one I'm more inclined to believe), if OPEC is NOT the final culprit and the answer is a whole lot more complex, then I have a basic problem with McCain's ability to grasp whole issues, with all the details that ensue therefrom.

Either assumption is proof that the last thing we need in 2008 is the Republican candidate inhabiting the White House.

Why do Republicans want to drive America to its knees so badly? Why are they interested only in the interests of a wealthy, privileged few and so deaf and blind to the needs of the rank-and-file many?

Republicans always offer simple and wrong answers, like terrorists hate us for our freedom.

Jackson you just made yourself look like the idiot that you are. Venezuela is in OPEC. Who's the embarassment now smart guy?

Jeff,

Then why are we continuing to buy oil to store in the nation's reserve? Truth is, OPEC can pump as much as they want and charge as much as they want. It's business, right? Sounds like the Republican way to me..

The real point of this article is the fact that the Republican candidate seems to still be thinking he's living in the 70's.

Maybe Obama is like Jackson and just believes that OPEC is composed entirely of Mid-East countries and doesn't realize that Venezuela was a founding member of it. This is shocking, SHOCKING ignorance of a fundamental part of our oil supply problem. Maybe this is why they think Hugo Chavez is our best friend and isn't directly responsible for a portion of the recent hikes in gas prices.

Jackson, maybe this latest news is SIMPLISTIC to you and Frank, too. I hope both of you call it SIMPLISTIC when you're filling up your tank tonight: Gas jumps above $3.67, oil passes $126 on Venezuela concerns
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i5TtajgUpSm7KY5jf-lCJGHBB-tAD90I6AJO0

Old Kept Man Millionaire McBush is wrong. The US imports the most oil from Canada. Canada is not a member of OPEC, and has a pretty stable political history. The second highest import of oil to the US is from Saudi Arabia. And third--this I did not know--is from Mexico--which might explain a few things. This info from Energy Information Administration- from where US imports oil. Someone here at The Swamp said prices were high also due to speculation. The more I read on that--the more it makes sense adding it to the mix of real reasons the price of gas is close to $4.00 a gallon in the US. Bush could be allowing the high price of gas to bring about support for private oil buddies to drill for oil in US public areas. Already, according to TimesOnLine May 5, 2008, the private company, Mayfair Mining Company, plans to extract uranium from the very public Grand Canyon--apparenty for nuclear energy reasons. Mayfair, apparently, wants to drill 39 spots on seven sites in the Kaibab National Forest in north-central Arizona. Another 1000 claims are possibly pending by other companies. Uranium is a pretty toxic metal and is a source of radiation. It could kill wildlife and could poison the water in the Colorado River aquaduct. Interesting note: Thought I read that mining companies don't have to clean up after themselves if, after a while, they file bankruptcy.

This is the kind of stuff McCain is talking about when he says "inexperience."
People like McCain and I have been around long enough to know that Venezuela was the first country to move towards the establishment of OPEC by approaching Iran, Iraq, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia in 1949, suggesting that they exchange views and explore avenues for regular and closer communications between them. In September 1960, at the initiative of the Venezuelan Energy and Mines minister Juan Pablo Pérez Alfonzo and the Saudi Arabian Energy and Mines minister Abdullah al-Tariki, the governments of Iraq, Iran, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Venezuela met in Baghdad to discuss the reduction in price of crude oil produced by their respective countries.

I see it has already started. The media like Frank James who attacked Hillary are now setting their sites on McCain. It will only get worse. Readers should expect lots of attacks on McCain here at the swamp from the writers. In the Sun ITMes Neil Stein is already attacking McCain due to his age. The liberal members in teh media will do whatever takes to get Obama elected.

"Michael, what is LEGITIMATE about refusing to admit, as Obama lackey James does, that OPEC controls the single largest group of oil producers in the world?"

Jeff, it's legitimate, because that is not what McCain said. McCain's statement was "I think it's because of one fundamental problem. It's because you have a cartel that controls virtually all of the world's oil supply."

That statement is factually in error. OPEC does NOT control virtually all of the worlds oil supply, as you admit with your own figures.

You can't spin that Jeff. You put other words in McCains mouth, but that doesn't fool anyone. He made a statement. He was wrong. Someday you'll be mature enough to get past your blind hero worship of McCain and will see he is not infallible.

Mcain is a conservative voters nightmare- the only thing saving him, in my view, is that he is not as far left as the Dem Siamese twins.

He better get some smart people whispering in his ear quickly-

Leadership means that you have to sometimes tell people what they don't want to hear.

Mcain's deflecting the issue of increasing domestic production is not leadership-

The Dem twins' 'regulate and tax oil companies" solution is not only bad leadership but also exposes their complete misunderstanding of the most basic economic principles.

Increasing domestic refining and drilling is inevitable if we want to maintain any sort of productive economy in the near future. We can start now, and look forward to some sort of stability in the next decade or so. Or we can put our heads in the sand and avoid the question- so in 10 years or so we will be in line behind countries like China and India to buy oil we can't afford. When oil is $10/gal my guess is that protecting those "pristine" regions of alaska, california and florida will not be as important to either side of the aisle. Then, I guarantee, we will start drilling and refining with no regard for making sure we do it as cleanly, and with little impact as possible.

We need some realism here- taxing oil company profits is insanity.. not drilling and refining domestically is almost as insane.

Yeah right, and you neo-nuts want this intellectual under achiever to run our economy farther down the drain? Anybody think that the oil companies raking in 10 billion dollars a month in profits have anything to do with it? Global demand? Falling value of the dollar? Personally I think there needs to be an investigation of the oil companies, to see if their involved in price fixing in order to get congress to let them destroy the rest of Alaska’s north shore. That’s right blame it on imported oil so they can destroy the last part of true wilderness we have in this country, and then export that oil to other countries for higher profits.

OMG !! Hey Jeff, I dont think Canada is in OPEC. which by the way is the US's number ONE importer of oil.
Saudi Arabia is number two, I imagine this is why we didnt attack them for 9/11, (seing that 9 out of the 11 highjackers were Saudi Arabian)
Mexico is 3rd, Nigeria 4th, Venezuela 5th, Iraq 6th.

Hmmm, seems to me I have seen post after post from the Left that says we get all our oil from the Saudis.
This, as usual, is pretty poor "journalism" from that journalistic farce known as Frank James.
The fact is, the longer sense of McCain's answer did include the oil companies, supply and demand, etc. Frank, why won't you include everything O'Reilly and McCain talked about regarding gas prices and energy in general?
Frank, why don't you just go where you belong and desire to be? A member of the Obama campaign. You can work with your buddy David Axelrod.

Jackson you just made yourself look like the idiot that you are. Venezuela is in OPEC. Who's the embarassment now smart guy?

Posted by: Jeff | May 9, 2008 12:16 PM

Zing!! You really told him, tough guy!!
I love it when you "talk straight" instead that faux civility you pretend to show your fellow posters.

Just another attempt by McCain to justify his war with Iran. He want's it so bad he can taste it. All he wants is to bomb, bomb, bomb, and kill, kill, kill.

Why would McBush let something like the facts get in the way of his sound bite?
BTW, when is GWB gonna get off the dime and send another $30 billion in military hardware to Saudi?

" ... Anybody think that the oil companies raking in 10 billion dollars a month in profits have anything to do with it?..."

Posted by: Rory M | May 9, 2008 12:39 PM

Rory- $10B is a huge amount of profit- the part you miss is that a company like Exxon has to spend $100B to make that $10B- about a 10% profit margin. This is roughly the same profit margin as Mcdonalds...shoud we investigate ronald as well?

Not sure what profit margin would be acceptable to you before you bring in the government to take profits away from a publicly traded company that is a huge part if many people 401ks -

Who's the embarassment now smart guy?

Posted by: Jeff | May 9, 2008 12:16 PM
;
I don't know maybe the guy who only yesterday ripped into someone for linking Wikipedia as a source and then the next day this guy, you, cut and paste figures lifted from Wikipedia.

Posted by: heartburn | May 9, 2008 1:09 PM

Profit margin isn't a very good way to compare industries heartburn. Rerurns on equity is generally a more fair assesment. The oil industies return on equity is consistantly much higher than other industries.

http://www.usnews.com/articles/business/economy/2008/02/01/exxons-profits-measuring-a-record-windfall.html

heartburn,
How many applications for new refineries or upgrades on existing refineries have been submitted to the Dept of Interior in the last 15 years?? McDonald's at least makes improvements to its menu every year. This year they've added more Chicken products! What did Exxon Mobil or BP do? Make a few feel good warm and fuzzy commercials?

What the headline of this article should read: "Democratic Party spokesman Frank James attacks McCain"

McCain never mentions one of the major factors in the increase in the price of oil, the falling value of the US dollar.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/29/news/economy/oil_dollar/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2008/04/17/cnoil117.xml\

The rise in the price of oil is in part another effect of the failed Republican economic policies.

Jackson, try OPEC's website then, I provided it for you, too. When I ripped into Don for using wikipedia, too, I did it because wikipedia itself had tagged the page he linked for lack of sourcing and non-neutrality. There is simply no debate that Venezuela is not only in OPEC but that they STARTED OPEC. You guys have made my point for me and shown how ridiculous your statement was. Two of the US's top five oil importers (Saudi Arabia and Venezuela) are in OPEC. For that reason alone we should try to drill our own oil and not be so dependent on them.
Michael, they control the ability to set prices because they have a plurality of most of the world's oil. You know what a plurality is, don't you? What Bill Clinton used to get elected.

Embarassment Jackson, will you at least admit it was pretty stupid to cite our trade relationship with an OPEC member nation as a reason that we're NOT dependent on OPEC? Even you have to admit that was pretty dumb, don't you? It sort of cuts both legs out from under you when you try to say Iran doesn't help sunnis and stuff like that, wouldn't you admit?
I have to go deliver a similar pwning to the one I just gave you on one of Frank James' other threads full of lies. See ya later.

http://www.opec.org/aboutus/member%20countries/venezuela.htm

"THE CHAIRMAN SPEAKS"

IT'S VICKIE'S FAULT!
ALL "BETTS" ARE OFF!
IT'S OPEC'S FAULT!
ALL "BETTS" ARE OFF!
IT'S "AT&T'S FAULT!
ALL "BETTS" ARE OFF!
IT'S RICK RE NZI RE NZI AND NOT "REZKO'S" FAULT
ALL "BETTS" ARE OFF!
IT'S "OPEC'S FAULT!
ALL "BETTS" ARE OFF!
IT'S J.D. HAYWORTH'S FAULT
ALL "BETTS" ARE OFF!
IT'S "IRANS" EUROS FAULT!
ALL "BETTS" ARE OFF!
CAN WE JUST ENJOY OUR "HOLIDAY"
AS AN ABSENTEE SENATOR IN ARIZONA, WE NEED TO "LOBBY" MEXICO TO ROLLOVER AND LET "BIG OIL" DO WHAT THEY GOTTA DO! MEANWHILE!
IT'S "OPEC'S" FAUTL
ALL "BETTS" ARE ON!

Michael, they control the ability to set prices because they have a plurality of most of the world's oil. You know what a plurality is, don't you? What Bill Clinton used to get elected.

Posted by: Jeff | May 9, 2008 1:47 PM

Jef , I really think you should be asking that question of the Senator, not me. I know what a plurality is, and it's not "virtually all". He seems to be the one that is confused on the matter. Perhaps you can share some of your deep knowledge of OPEC and the oil markets with him so that he doesn't make these basic silly errors in the future. At least send him the wikipedia link.

Here's some math for the slow Obama supporters: 35.6% (how much oil supply OPEC controls) is more than 23.8% (how much the OECD controls) and 14.8% (the former Soviet states control). The OECD and former Soviet states do not work together on pricing or withholding supply as the OPEC states do. No other producers have even 10% of the world supply. They control the most oil of one alliance in the world. They control the price of most of the world's oil supply by manipulating their own oil's price and using their market leverage to make everyone else follow suit. If OPEC opened up supply the price goes down. If OPEC holds back supply the price goes up. See how that works?

heartburn,
How many applications for new refineries or upgrades on existing refineries have been submitted to the Dept of Interior in the last 15 years?? McDonald's at least makes improvements to its menu every year. This year they've added more Chicken products! What did Exxon Mobil or BP do? Make a few feel good warm and fuzzy commercials?

Posted by: john | May 9, 2008 1:30 PM

No idea - perhaps you know

More telling is your assumption is that these evil oil companies are not willing to drill for more oil, even though the price of oil on the market has tripled in just the last few years?

Are you really saying that this whole short supply/high demand driven price increase is because the oil companies just don't want to make more money?

Vicki Iseman, AKA John E., the only thing I called Jackson (other than the pretty innocuous smart guy) is an embarassment and an idiot. The same thing he tried to call me while citing our trade relationship with OPEC's founding state as the reason we're not dependent on OPEC for oil. Don't you think saying something like that is idiotic? Or at least nonsensicle? It certainly does NOT back up his argument that we don't get our oil from OPEC.

Wow!! You're masterful when you're talking straight. Just like McSame. I've got goosebumps, you know where.

It might as well be every drop of oil on the planet if they can set the price for themselves and others! If OPEC can set prices by withholding and opening up supply - and no one has as much power to do that as them - then they control the price of virtually all the oil in the world. How many times do I have to explain it to you?

Jeff-

You can keep talking until your blue in the face. Your mountain of words doesn't hide the words John McCain himself said. Those words are factually in error. They do not control "virtually all" the worlds oil supply. The more you circle around that the sillier you are looking. Just admit that McCain made an error and move on. He's human, not a god. It happens. The world won't end.

Swamp, how long will you allow John E to post as Vicki Iseman? Does the real Vicki Iseman need to file a lawsuit against you for defamation before you put a stop to it?

I have been watching the posts of late, and I just have to ask:
Jeff, do you have a job? How are you able to post on all topics endlessly?

Or is it your job to post...???

Oh and as far as this posting, how bout we discuss getting off oil instead of whining about what OPEC is doing? Then they can do what they want to the prices and we'll just plug in our cars to our solar generators and chuckle our way to work.

We're the US. We are innovators. Why cant we get off oil instead of trying to drill more here???

Erick, I'd love to get off oil but our whole society is based on it right now. Electronics production, transportation and manufacturing are all based on having it the way they are now. The quickest change (from flying between cities to using cheaper high-speed rail) is at least 20 years away. We should get started on the shift to a green economy but we certainly shouldn't end domestic oil production for it.
I'd wager that I get more done for 8AM then you get done all day, Erick ;)

Jeff, "Vicki Iseman" is not the only other person John E has posted as. He has posted as Susan Whitehurst, Amanda Earing, me, among others. Admittedly, though, when informed of this, Mark Silva, at least, has been quick to pull those posts.

Swamp, how long will you allow Jeff to post as a college republican? Do the real college Republicans need to file a lawsuit against you for defamation before you put a stop to it?

Whoops!!! Jeff, that would mean employing the services of a trial lawyer. Naughty,naughty . You will get thrown out of the club.

I guess we can't expect responsibility from Frank James. What else is new, eh John D?

Michael, just admit you made an error and move on. What he said was correct, OPEC controls the single largest collection of oil in the world. More oil than any other government or entity. We all know what he meant. Your DNC nitpicking won't change a thing. You didn't even watch the whole interview and see the supply and demand discussion that Frank James won't post.
We've already been treated to "we don't get our oil from OPEC, we get it from (OPEC founder) Venezuela." We don't need anymore of your democrat-think, Michael.

Jeff, my god, are you really that blind? That is NOT what he said. Stop spinning and read his words. VIRTUALLY ALL, not the most, not more, not alot, not a plurality, VIRTUALLY ALL.

Those are his words. his WRONG words.

Do you have any idea how silly and pathetic your arguement looks? Are you really so completely besotted with McCain that it's impossible for you to acknowledge this simple error?

Funny, the Left Wing Biased Censors at the Swamp allow this bit of piffle from John E:

Swamp, how long will you allow Jeff to post as a college republican? Do the real college Republicans need to file a lawsuit against you for defamation before you put a stop to it?

Whoops!!! Jeff, that would mean employing the services of a trial lawyer. Naughty,naughty . You will get thrown out of the club.

Posted by: Jeff is a crybaby | May 9, 2008 3:42 PM

And they allow "Janet" to liken John McCain to wifebeater Mike Tyson.

But the Left Wing Biased censors at the Swamp won't post this my rebuttal to Janet for likening an McCain, American hero, to the wifebeater Mike Tyson.

Fairness, responsbility, decency, objectivity, balance: five words that do not apply to the Chicago Tribune.

Michael, are you blind? OPEC controls the price of virtually all the world's oil! He's right. You are more proof that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him think.

Michael MY GOD are you that blind? When you control a plurality of the world's oil you control the price of almost all the oil in the world through your ability to restrict supply and demand! The error, Michael, is yours and it's caused by your inability to understand the basic forces of supply and demand.
I know this is out of the democrat playbook. You'll say "just admit this simple error" and then make an attack ad out of it, but the fact of the matter is McCain was right. When you control the ability to alter price as a supplier you control virtually all the oil in the world to buyers who need it (like the US).

Jeff, you are trying to explain economics, rational thought, facts, understanding of processes, reality, common sense to those who are completely incapable of understanding such things. Heavens, Jeff, by the use of facts, common sense, intelligence, reality, etc., you are in fact torturing the Loons on the Left!

MY GOD, they allowed "Janet" to write that? Where was "Michael" and his outrage?

Jeff

You simply have become too delusional. There's not point in furthering this conversation. Everyone sees McCain's error and your inability to see reality any longer.

Try and get some help OK, buddy? It's going to be real hard on you when you eventually come to see that McCain isn't as mythically perfect as you make him out to be in your mind. Have a good weekend. Get away from the blogs a bit. You really need to get some perspective, ok?

Jeff,
Sadly I think we need Paulo to step in and explain to you that the price of oil is determined by Futures Commodity Traders, NOT OPEC.

Innocents, go read Upton Sinclair's 'Oil'. The politics of oil today, are much like they were back in the 20's. The "boobs" of the working class shouldn't have a say in policy. That requires people of "vision", who can bribe, black-mail, lie and steal in order to bring the necessary "efficiencies" to the market. If you don't think big oil is pulling the strings, (like they were in the 20's and the 70's), then you haven't been paying attention.

Jackson, sadly I think we need me to step in and explain to you that Venezuela is not only in OPEC but founded it. Try to remember that the next time you start another of your little lectures.
Michael as a supporter of the obamessiah you have no room to talk. You and Frank James should be the ones getting perspective.

Little Johnny D,
Leave it to you to make up something I never said. All I said, which is and was a true fact, is that like Cindi McCain, Robin Givens said her husband, Mike Tyson, was a "firecracker". I did not nor would I ever liken Tyson to McCain....Mike Tyson doesn't marry women for their money.

Let's just bomb OPEC!

Posted by: Jeff | May 9, 2008 11:08 AM
Posted by: Jeff | May 9, 2008 11:23 AM
Posted by: Jeff | May 9, 2008 11:53 AM
Posted by: Jeff | May 9, 2008 12:06 PM
Posted by: Jeff | May 9, 2008 12:16 PM
Posted by: Jeff | May 9, 2008 12:23 PM
Posted by: Jeff | May 9, 2008 12:24 PM
Posted by: Jeff | May 9, 2008 12:34 PM
Posted by: Jeff | May 9, 2008 1:47 PM
Posted by: Jeff | May 9, 2008 1:54 PM
Posted by: Jeff | May 9, 2008 2:15 PM
Posted by: Jeff | May 9, 2008 2:26 PM
Posted by: Jeff | May 9, 2008 2:41 PM
Posted by: Jeff | May 9, 2008 2:56 PM
Posted by: Jeff | May 9, 2008 3:16 PM
Posted by: Jeff | May 9, 2008 3:44 PM
Posted by: Jeff | May 9, 2008 3:49 PM
Posted by: Jeff | May 9, 2008 4:24 PM
Posted by: Jeff | May 9, 2008 4:35 PM
Posted by: Jeff | May 9, 2008 4:49 PM
Posted by: Jeff | May 9, 2008 5:19 PM
-
Does anyone else fin this remarkable? Does anyone else get this kind of 'gold' service here on the Swamp? Can he do anything else during the day? And he is active on other entries as well. This has GOT to be Jeff's job.

Bill was tougher on McCain than Hillary, but McCain deserved it. What totally wimpy answers.

Can't anybody talk some sense into McCain and Obama about how temperatures rise first, and THEN carbon-dioxide levels rise. Carbon-dioxide doesn't cause warming, warming causes CO2 levels to rise.
.
absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
humans' breath is poison

just one child hurts the world
worse than a jet engine

.
absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
keep people all worked up

about global warming
despite inconvenient facts

.
The Great Global Warming Scam Movie

USpace

:)
.

Spend a little time looking at all the past posts on the price of gas.....and you'll notice that Jeff never once mentioned OPEC as a reason. It's funny how the pom pom wavers are so willing to discard their ideas if their candidate says something so different.

jeff complains about other posters using aliases but seems to forget that he used to post as "Bill" and "Robert" before landing on his real name. what is that word again? oh yeah, hypocrisy.