Hillary Clinton roll call: Yea or nay?

by Mark Silva

Should the Democrats hold a roll call for the presidential nomination of Sen. Hillary Clinton of New York at the Democratic National Convention?

Many of Clinton's supporters in the Democratic primaries call it necessary for the healing of a deep party rift. Many of Sen. Barack Obama's supporters view it as a divisive, unnecessary step standing in the way of a unified convention for the nomination of Obama.

"No, I hope that doesn't happen,'' New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson said today on ABC News' This Week With George Stephanopoulos (actually without him; ABC's Jake Tapper stood in). "But Sen. Clinton is a major leader in the party. She will have a speaking role at the convention,' said Richardson, who endorsed Obama to the surprise of the Clinton's at a critical juncture in the primaries. " We're trying to bring the Obama, Clinton people together.. ... I don't believe a roll call would be helpful."

Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine, viewed as a leading candidate for Obama's running mate, steered a safer course through the Clinton minefield this morning on CBS News' Face the Nation. Shown that ABC clip of former President Bill Clinton answering the question of Obama's readiness to serve by saying, no one really is ready to serve as president, Kaine suggested that the party indeed will unite - but he'll leave that question of the Clinton roll call to the convention's planners

Score one for Kaine.

Here, courtesy of ABC News' This Week with George Stephanopoulos, is a transcript of the talk with Richardon as well as Republican Gov, Bobby Jindal of Louisiana:

ANNOUNCER: From the heart of the nation's capital, "This Week
with George Stephanopoulos," live from the Newseum on Pennsylvania
Avenue. Filling in this morning, ABC News senior political
correspondent Jake Tapper.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Good morning, everyone. I'm Jake Tapper. George
Stephanopoulos is on a well-deserved vacation this morning.

Barack Obama began his vacation earlier this weekend in Hawaii,
with the eyes of the world focused on the spectacular start of the
Olympics.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(UNKNOWN): And Phelps with a new Olympic record.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: But pretty pictures of international harmony are
contradicted by the reality of the Russian military's air strikes on
the former Soviet state of Georgia. The focus of the fighting was the
disputed region of South Ossetia, but this morning there are reports
the Russians have begun targeting Georgia's capital and appear
prepared to occupy Ossetia and a second Georgian province, with fears
of all-out war.

President Bush yesterday took a break from the Olympics to
condemn Russia's actions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: The violence is endangering regional peace. Civilian
lives have been lost, and others are endangered. Georgia is a
sovereign nation and its territorial integrity must be respected.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: And that's where we begin this morning with our
headliner, the former presidential candidate and current governor of
New Mexico, Bill Richardson.

Governor Richardson, welcome back to "This Week."

RICHARDSON: Well, look, my view is that the United States -- if
we had a stronger relationship with Russia, we could exercise strong
diplomacy to stop this effort against Georgia.

We should immediately go to the United Nations Security Council,
condemn Russia's action, and then get the Security Council to pass a
strong resolution getting the Russians to show some restraint, and
possibly at the same time generate some U.N. peacekeeping troops.

The problem, though, is that we don't have the kind of influence
and strength in our relationship with Russia to persuade them. This
has been one of the failures of the Bush administration, failing to
build a strong relationship, a mutually beneficial relationship with
Russia, so we'd have the kind of influence to persuade them to stop
some of these very, very dangerous efforts within their territory.

TAPPER: Well, you say you see this incursion as an example of
the lack of diplomatic skills by the Bush administration, but some
might see them as evidence that Senator McCain is correct when he
basically says -- well, he says that Russia has no business being in
the G-8 because it does not share the same values as those Western
nations.

Does this incursion not verify that Senator McCain's assessment
of Russia is correct?

RICHARDSON: Well, you know, Senator Obama has said let's use
diplomacy. I believe what Senator McCain is proposing is totally,
totally wrong. Keeping them out of the G-8? Russia is a major
superpower. We have to build the kind of relationship with Russia so
that we can deal with them on restraining Iran from building nuclear
weapons, so that we can deal with Russia in the Middle East, help us
in the situation in Iraq.

You know, Senator Obama's policy of diplomacy, of building
international support for our goals makes sense. What Senator McCain
wants to do is continue the Bush policies of trying to isolate Russia,
you know, build this missile system there, find ways to be aggressive
against Russia. It's not working. And Russia doesn't respect our
efforts to try to restrain them.

So I believe what Senator Obama is proposing -- international
diplomacy, build a strong relationship with countries like Russia and
China, find the United Nations as a vehicle to bring this crisis
possibly to an end -- that's what we need.

Look what's happening. Senator McCain wants to isolate Russia
further. That's not going to work. That will make Russia more
detrimental in the relationship with the United States.

TAPPER: Well, Governor Richardson, practically speaking, Russia
is on the U.N. Security Council. They can veto anything. What would
going to the United Nations do?

RICHARDSON: Well, look, you can build international support,
first of all, condemn Russia's action, then put international pressure
on Russia.


RICHARDSON: It doesn't mean they would veto their own
resolution. It's likely they would.

But the point is the United States doesn't have any international
allies to put pressure on Russia. What Senator Obama wants to do was
America lead, but find ways to deal with Russia, with China, with
Iran, with North Korea through face-to-face diplomacy, tough
negotiations.

Look what Senator Obama wants to do in Iraq. He wants to
withdraw our forces and now, right now, the Iraqis are agreeing with
Senator Obama's position of a pullout, a timeline within a certain
period of time, safely and securely for our troops, and focus on
Afghanistan, focus on terrorism there. That is where America's threat
is. That's where the Al Qaida and Taliban are getting stronger.

TAPPER: Well, Governor Richardson, the McCain campaign put out a
very forceful statement calling the situation in Georgia "dire" and
blaming Russia. Here's what -- the Obama campaign's response. They
said, quote, "John McCain's top foreign policy adviser lobbied for and
has a vested interest in the Republic of Georgia, and McCain has
mirrored the position advocated by the government."

Now, Georgia is a strong U.S. ally. Is that really an
appropriate response to such a serious international crisis to blame
the McCain campaign's position on one of his advisers?

RICHARDSON: Well, you know, Jake, the McCain campaign is getting
very negative. Right now, they have a very negative ad on Senator
Obama, the celebrity ad, during the Olympics, while Senator Obama has
a positive, uplifting ad about the importance of Olympic spirit.

Senator McCain is the Washington celebrity here. His campaign is
run by lobbyists that represent Georgia and other countries. His
campaign is negative. He changes positions. He takes huge amounts of
money from oil companies that are profiting in the Soviet Union and
many parts of the world.

Two hundred million dollars in the last few months...

TAPPER: I don't think it's $200 million.

RICHARDSON: ... have gone into the McCain...

TAPPER: I think it's $2 million, not $200 million.
RICHARDSON: Two million that have gone in since Senator McCain
switched his position on off-shore oil. You know, this is a campaign
run by lobbyists, so we have a Washington celebrity campaign going on
and it's negative. And the American people want to see the good,
positive positions of both candidates.

And the best part about Senator Obama's campaign is he can bring
people together. He's uplifting of the American people. He can bring
Republicans and Democrats together to deal with energy, with the
economy, and many other important issues that affect this country.

TAPPER: All right. The other big news over the weekend is your
former colleague, John Edwards', admission that he had an affair in
2006. Do you think Senator Edwards' political career is over?

RICHARDSON: You know, I'm not going to be one of those that are
going to pile on Senator Edwards. Obviously, he let a lot of people
down. I feel for Elizabeth.

But, you know, the public is forgiving. Obviously, this is
something between himself and his family and voters. You know, I feel
for that family. I still believe that John Edwards is committed to
reducing poverty. I think his concern in the campaign was genuine.

This is a difficult period. You know, but I'm just not going to
be one of those that pile on. I think that we need to move onto the
campaign and see the positive differences between Obama and McCain.
And what we have is Senator McCain running exclusively a negative
campaign. The American people don't want that, Jake.

TAPPER: OK, well, we can move on, too, to an issue more
important to Americans, of course, the energy crisis. When you and
Senator Obama badmouth Senator McCain's position on opening more areas
to off-shore drilling, you point out rightly that experts say that we
won't see any energy savings for 7 to 10 years, but 10 years ago you
were secretary of energy. If you had opened some areas to off-shore
drilling, we could right now perhaps be reaping those benefits.

Do you think -- do you regret not opening those areas? And do
you think you, as energy secretary, did enough to prepare us for the
current crisis?

RICHARDSON: Well, look, Jake, both parties, both administrations
have not done enough to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels, so I'm
not going to get totally partisan on this.

My point is that what Senator Obama wants to do is he wants to
provide immediate relief, a rebate on energy to every taxpayer, every
family. He wants to use the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, as I did as
energy secretary, President Clinton directed me to do this, to reduce
the price.


RICHARDSON: What we also need is a comprehensive strategy that
goes all the way to drilling, drilling in America, drilling in a
responsible way, but also being more energy efficient, also having
fuel-efficient vehicles, 50 miles per gallon, hybrid cars, electric
cars, conservation measures, mass transit, instead of focusing so much
on highways, build light rail and commuter rail, and open spaces.

This is the kind of energy policy that Senator Obama wants to
hold and push. And you have Senator McCain -- look, we've had eight
years of policies of $4 gasoline prices, $450 billion deficit. People
are hurting. And Senator McCain's energy policy is gimmicks, this tax
holiday, more of the same oil company, whatever they want.

They want to drill now off-shore. That's not going to work,
Jake. It's going to take seven, eight years for any kind of prices to
go down if you drill off-shore. And you've got some very valuable
ecosystems in the ocean. You can't drill irresponsibly in wildlife
areas in Alaska.

But we've got 68 million acres that the oil companies have under
lease, federal lands where they're not drilling. Let's drill there.
That's drilling in America. We need more refineries. We need more
investments in solar, wind, biofuels, biodiesels...

TAPPER: Governor?

RICHARDSON: ... technology.

TAPPER: OK, there's a lot of debate right now about the role
that Senator Hillary Clinton should play at the Democratic convention.
You're going to be holding a fundraiser for her later in the week to
help her retire her debt. The question at the convention is, should
there be a roll call vote?

Here's what Senator Clinton herself had to say about what she
wants to see at the convention. Here's her speaking to some
supporters a few days ago in San Francisco.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: I know, from just what I'm hearing, that there's just
-- there's incredible pent-up desire. And I think that, you know,
people want to feel like, "OK, it's a catharsis. We're here. We did
it." And then everybody get behind Senator Obama.

(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Very quickly, Governor, is this what the Democratic
Party needs, a catharsis, a roll call vote for Senator Clinton?

RICHARDSON: No, I hope that doesn't happen, but Senator Clinton
is a major leader in the party. She will have a speaking role at the
convention. We're trying to bring the Obama, Clinton people together.

I'm holding a fundraiser -- two fundraisers, actually, for her
next week to retire her debt. We as Democrats have to come together.
So I don't believe a roll call would be helpful.

But she is a major player. She will be speaking on primetime.
She is a leader in the party, a huge leader. And the best thing is
for Democrats to come together, and that is happening. That is
happening right now, Clinton, Obama supporters gradually coming
together, and I think that's important for us to be strong against
Senator McCain, who will be a formidable opponent.

TAPPER: OK, Governor Richardson, we're going to have to leave it
there, speaking to us from Truth or Consequences, New Mexico. Thanks
so much for joining us.

RICHARDSON: Thank you. Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: And now joining us from Baton Rouge, Louisiana Governor
Bobby Jindal.

Welcome to "This Week," Governor.

JINDAL: Good morning, Jake. Thank you for having me on this
morning.

TAPPER: Now, you heard me mention to Governor Richardson the
Obama campaign attack against Senator McCain when it comes to the
Russia-Georgia crisis. I want to now read you comments from this
McCain campaign against Senator Obama.

Quote, "The Obama campaign has offered nothing more than cheap
and petty political attacks that are echoed only by the Kremlin. The
reaction of the Obama campaign to this crisis is so at odds with our
Democratic allies, and yet so bizarrely in sync with Moscow doesn't
merely raise questions about Senator Obama's judgment, it answers
them."

I'll put it to you. I didn't really get an answer out of
Governor Richardson, but I'll put it to you. Is that really an
appropriate response for a crisis this severe?

JINDAL: Well, you know, Senator McCain first went to Georgia
back in 1997. He, as soon as this crisis emerged, in no uncertain
terms, said that Russia should withdraw its forces, observe a cease-
fire, suggested that there need to be true international peacekeepers
there.

I think this is another example, during these uncertain times,
where we need experienced leadership. We need someone like Senator
McCain who will take a stronger view, a more experienced view when it
comes to international security and protecting America's interest.

I think, during these kind of uncertain times, you want somebody
with Senator McCain's record of bringing real leadership, real reform
to Washington.

As one example, even fighting his own administration, his own
party, he stood for the surge in Iraq when it wasn't popular to do so.
Senator Obama, I think he'd have a lot more credibility if now he'd
admit that the surge had actually worked. There's nothing wrong with
him saying he was wrong about it.

So when it comes to the Georgia crisis, I think this is another
good reason why the American voters are going to choose Senator
McCain's leadership, not just political rhetoric.

You know, Senator Obama condemned the violence, and that's a good
thing, but we need to go beyond condemning the violence and actually
offering solutions.

TAPPER: But you don't think that Senator Obama is echoing the
Kremlin and has views that are bizarrely in sync in Moscow? Is it
fair to say you don't share that?

JINDAL: Well -- well, you know, I agree with what you asked the
governor, Governor Richardson. I think it was wrong for Senator Obama
to try to focus on a McCain adviser rather than actually listening to
what McCain had to say about the policy, rather than recognizing
McCain's years and years of experience when it comes to international
affairs.


JINDAL: You know, let's -- this is a very serious international
crisis. I think the administration has correctly sent word to Moscow
this is not acceptable. Georgia is a stalwart ally of ours, like you
-- as you noted. They've sent troops to Iraq. They're applying for
membership in NATO. NATO has indicated they'd like them to become a
member.

They're an example of Senator McCain's push to spread democracy
in that part of the world as a very important advance of America's
interest, as well as being good for international stability. So
instead of trying to detract from the central issue, I wish Senator
Obama had actually confronted the issue, not trying to detract our
attention by focusing on a McCain adviser.

TAPPER: One of the reasons why Georgia is so important, of
course, is because of a pipeline there from Azerbaijan to Turkey that
pumps out up to a million barrels of oil per day. Energy a huge issue
on the campaign trail. One of the main ways that Senator McCain
attacks Senator Obama is for voting for the 2005 energy bill. Here's
Senator McCain earlier this week talking about that bill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCAIN: When the energy bill came to the floor of the Senate,
full of goodies and breaks for the oil companies, I voted against it.
Senator Obama voted for it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: And then-Congressman Bobby Jindal also voted for it. Is
Senator McCain describing that bill correctly? Was it full of goodies
for the oil companies?

JINDAL: Well, as a congressman from Louisiana, we had several
good reasons to support that bill. Both Democrat and Republican
members did. Hundreds of millions of dollars for coastal restoration.
It's our number-one economic -- or number-one environmental challenge
down here in Louisiana...

TAPPER: So it's a good bill?

JINDAL: ... even before the storms.

TAPPER: So it was a good bill?

JINDAL: Well, there were many provisions of that bill that were
important for Louisiana, absolutely defendable, especially the money
for coastal restoration.

I think what Senator McCain was saying about Senator Obama,
though, was Senator Obama can't have it both ways. He accuses Senator
McCain of supporting the administration's oil and gas policies, when
Senator Obama was the one that actually voted for the so-called Bush-
Cheney energy bill, not Senator McCain.

As a congressman from Louisiana, absolutely it made sense for me
and my Democratic, also, colleagues from Louisiana to vote for a bill
that gives us hundreds of millions of dollars to restore our coast,
the same wetlands -- by the way, the same wetlands that are so
important to protect our areas from storms like Katrina and Rita.
Every couple of miles of wetlands reduces tidal surge by a foot.

This should be a national environmental crisis. That was the
most money we've ever gotten in decades to begin to restore our coast,
to restore our wetlands. So absolutely it was the right vote for
those of us that represent Louisiana that are worried about wetlands.

The point here is Senator Obama can't have it both ways. He
can't accuse and criticize Senator McCain for supporting the oil and
gas industry when he voted for very bill being pushed by the
administration. He voted for the bill that contains some of the
incentives he now criticizes.

TAPPER: You talk about an all-of-the-above approach to energy,
you and Senator McCain, meaning that there should be more nuclear
power, more off-shore drilling. But Senator McCain opposes drilling
in Alaska, the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. In reality, he
doesn't really favor an all-of-the-above approach, does he?

JINDAL: Well, he and I disagree on that one small issue. I
personally think it's 2,000 acres out of millions of acres, less than
0.01 percent, but 10 billion barrels of oil.

But you look at what Senator McCain has embraced -- he's embraced
going after the 18 billion barrels of oil that are off our coast.
He's embraced nuclear power. He's embraced clean coal. He's embraced
wind, solar. He's embraced renewable energy like ethanol from the gas
and cellulosic ethanol, not from food sources.

He's embraced conservation. He's embraced, in other words,
saying let's do all of these things to reduce our energy consumption,
reduce the price of energy, reduce our dependence on international
sources of energy.

Senator Obama, in contrast -- you know, it was amazing. He said
that he didn't want to tap the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. The price
of gasoline actually went down a little bit, then he decided he was
for it. He said he was against off-shore drilling. The price of
gasoline went above $4. Then he said, well, maybe he could kind of,
sort of, under certain circumstances be for it.

He wants us to inflate our tires, which is not a bad thing, but
it's not an energy policy. Senator McCain has embraced a
comprehensive approach that would help our environment, reduce our
dependence, reduce the prices we're paying, and, by the way, also help
to keep more good-paying manufacturing jobs here in America.

So it really is more of an all-of-the-above approach, more of a
comprehensive approach, not just telling people to inflate their
tires.

TAPPER: Well, interestingly, you've had some kind words for
Senator Obama in the past. You're very on-message this morning, but
in the past you've called him -- you've called him inspirational.
There's a clear enthusiasm gap. Obama's supporters are much more
motivated than Senator McCain's supporters.

What could Senator McCain learn from Senator Obama?

JINDAL: Well, two things. One, look, I continue to say I think
Senator Obama is one of the best speakers, the most inspiring speakers
I've seen in a political generation. You have to go back to President
Ronald Reagan to really see somebody who's that articulate. And let's
not take that away from him. An important part of being president is
being able to inspire people and motivate people. It's certainly -- I
don't think enough.

The other thing I'd say is I think this should be a campaign
where both candidates can talk about their positions, not attack each
other. Bottom line is this: I think that, certainly if it was a
contest to see who's the better speaker, the better celebrity, Senator
Obama is ahead.


JINDAL: But when it comes to substance, when it comes to the
experience of really being a reformer, Senator McCain has taken on his
own party on immigration, on importation of generic prescription
drugs, on issues like earmarks and wasteful spending, on many, many
issues. He has bucked the trend on immigration reform, many, many
issues. He has stood up. He has been independent, and did what he
thought was right, not what was partisan, not what his own party
wanted him to do.

And I think that certainly, Senator McCain certainly is not going
to be the speaker Senator Obama is, but I hope Senator Obama can learn
from Senator McCain the importance of sticking to principles, being
independent, not just following the party line.

TAPPER: When you've ran for office in the past in Louisiana, the
Democrats have made an effort to paint you as foreign, as other.
They've mentioned the fact that your parents are both from India.
Some Democrats have called you Piyush Jindal, which is your given
name, although you've gone by Bobby since you were four years old.
Some Democrats are now saying that the McCain campaign and the
Republicans are trying the same tactics against Senator Obama. Take a
listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCAIN: As you may know, not long ago, a couple of hundred
thousand Berliners made a lot of noise for my opponent. I'll take the
roar of 50,000 Harleys any day!

UNKNOWN: John McCain, the American president Americans have been
waiting for.

MCCAIN: I'm John McCain, and I approve this message.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: John McCain, the American president Americans have been
waiting for, Americanly. In addition, Governor Jindal, state
Republican parties all over the country refer to Senator Obama by his
full name, Barack Hussein Obama.

As somebody who has been hit by this attack before, do you not
think that Republicans are trying to do to Obama what Democrats in
Louisiana tried to do to you?

JINDAL: Well, a couple of things. You know, it was amazing to
me, the Democrats in Louisiana even tried to go after me for being a
Christian. But the reality is, I'll say what I said when it was done
to me. Two things -- the voters are smarter than that. I think that
voters vote based on not life stories or biographies. They vote on
who is the person they think would be best to lead our country
forward.

I personally am supporting Senator McCain, because I think he's
got the life experiences, the judgment, the record of being a reformer
and the positions that are consistent with the majority of American
voters.

But secondly, I also think that people tried to make my election
about race, and I said the only colors that matter are red, white and
blue. We're all Americans. Both Senator McCain and Senator Obama are
patriotic Americans who love their countries, who've served honorably
in the Senate. I disagree with Senator Obama's, some of his positions
on raising taxes, on not going after more domestic sources of energy
while we ask other countries to produce more energy. But I think we
can have a good election. We don't have to vote against either one of
these men, but rather, you can vote for the candidate you truly
support. They're both honorable men, both patriotic Americans.

TAPPER: Very quickly, Governor, do you see the McCain campaign
and Republican parties going after Senator Obama for being foreign or
other as Democrats have gone after you. Do you see a similar attack?

JINDAL: No, I see the Republican Party -- I see Senator McCain
going after Obama for trying to raise our taxes, for not doing enough
to lower energy prices, for changing positions pretty frequently on
things like public financing of the campaign, on tapping the Strategic
Petroleum Reserve, on offshore drilling. No, I think there are plenty
of substantive differences that this campaign will be decided on.
That's what I think the McCain campaign and that's what I think the
Republican Party is doing, and that's what they should be doing,
focusing on the issues.

TAPPER: All right, Governor Jindal, thank you for your views.
Thanks for spending time with us today.

JINDAL: Thank you. Have a great morning.