Obama, McCain, U.S. citizens, once more

But aren't you forgetting that Sarah Ann Dunham was already a natural born citizen because she was born in Kansas and her parents were natural born citizens? Was the US government saying that you couldn't convey citizenship in your offspring until you were 19? That doesn't make sense. If according to the acts passed in 1790 and 1795 you were a citizen if you were born here and your child would be a citizen no matter where they were born, the age limit contradicts the earlier articles. So the courts earlier interpretation was correct all along.

Under the previous scenario, what if both parents were under 19, but natural borm citizens? What if they got married young, which would have been the case more often than not? Would their child not have been considered a natural born citizen yet have been the child of American citizens and lived their whole life insode the US?

It doesn't make sense and shows the idiocy of these people with the length they will take a flawed argument.

This whole story shows you how desperate the Republic Party and neoconservatives are in this election. His mom is a US citizen; thus, Barack Obama's a US citizen. End of story.

"But aren't you forgetting that Sarah Ann Dunham... [mindless drivel deleted]"

Do you people even read the articles before you post comments about them? The woman's name was Stanley Ann Dunham, and this was clearly stated in the article (that you didn't bother to read).

"...It doesn't make sense and shows the idiocy of these people with the length they will take a flawed argument."

The only thing that is flawed is your post.

Another chance for the desperate to show their stupidity. As if they needed another one.

Do you people even read the articles before you post comments about them? The woman's name was Stanley Ann Dunham,
Posted by: Truth Detector | October 30, 2008 11:25 AM

You are correct. However, she really was known as Ann Dunham later changed to Ann Sutoro......so you are correct "Sarah" is just plain wrong.

"This whole story shows you how desperate the Republic Party and neoconservatives are in this election. His mom is a US citizen; thus, Barack Obama's a US citizen. End of story."

And this shows that you failed to read the Constitution. End of story.

While I believe Obama was born in Hawaii, the above article contains a glaring factual error.

What is displayed above is NOT Obama's birth certificate, or even a copy of it.

Hawaiian birth certificates are termed a "Certificate of Live Birth." What is posted above is not the birth certificate, but rather what purports to be a "Certification of Live Birth"--a different document entirely.

The Certification is a document issued by the state after a search of its records--including the original certificate. While the Certification verifies the fact of birth, it does not contain information that could be found on the original certificate, such as the hospital, or whether the parents were married or not.

The difference between the two is explained by the Hawaiian government:

"In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout)."

See http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl for the facts, open to all, that the reporter somehow missed.

Danny: a certificate of live birth is a BIRTH CERTIFICATE. the issue is done. it does not matter. l

I take that back, I am now questioning the authenticity of the Obama birth certificate. I see why now. Go to google to get all the facts. By the way no one has verified the birth certificate except factcheck.org. I've never heard that they were the defacto standard in document verification. There is a lawsuit now filed in the US Supreme Court as of Today. Why Obama campaign would spend hundreds of thousands trying to keep the vault copy of the birth certificate from the public is HIGHLY suspect that they are in fact hiding something.

UH: this is the SAME "document" from factcheck and Obama's site; it has already been PROVEN a forgery *look it up on youtube, the corners of the COLB (which is NO Birth Certificate anyway) do NOT match ANY document from the state of Hawaii. SORRY to tell you, but this is a NON story as it is a fraud, as is Obama!

If Obama wasn't a natural born citizen, he could not run for President, and that would have been determined before he began the campaign. Any argument about the issue is ridiculous and says more about the person making the argument than anything.

Does anyone really know hwo this guy really is? Barack Hussein Obama, aka Barry Soetoro, aka Barry Obama, aka Barack Dunham, aka Barry Dunham. Why did he just not show his orig birth certificate while in Hawaii? Why not release his University records? He can tap dance better than Gregory Hines too!!

BEWARE THE WOLF IN SHEEPS CLOTHING PEOPLE.

Regarding the above article:

1. A 'birth certificate" is an actual document, a piece of paper, embossed or stamped in some fashion by the government, issued on or near the date of birth.
2. The image file shown in the article has none of these qualities. It is not a document, it is not a birth certificate, it isn't 1961, it isn't even a piece of paper.
3. Neither the Tribune reporter, nor any other reporter, has seen any actual document regarding Obama's birth, either a birth certificate, or the certification whose image file purportedly is above.
4. All that has been posted by the Obama campaign is an image file--NOT a document. And even reporters might have heard of a widely-used program called photoshop, which easily alters image files.

All of which prompts the following observations:

1. Why hasn't the Obama campaign released the actual birth certificate, the actual document?
2. Why hasn't the Obama campaign released to the press the actual certification of birth, the actual document?
3. If the reporter can get all these obvious facts wrong, why trust anything the reporter writes?

"If Obama wasn't a natural born citizen, he could not run for President, and that would have been determined before he began the campaign. Any argument about the issue is ridiculous and says more about the person making the argument than anything."

Do you Obama lovers do any research at all before posting comments? The previous ones didn't bother reading the article, and you, my friend, have failed to do your research.

Regarding your statement that "if Obama wasn't a natural born citizen, he could not run for President", that is exactly what some here are trying to tell you. Duh...

What about McCain's natural born status? He was born in the Canal zone at a military hospital, but before the law was enacted that made people born in such circumstances natural born citizens. It's his status we should be concerned with, not Obama's.

"If Obama wasn't a natural born citizen, he could not run for President, and that would have been determined before he began the campaign. Any argument about the issue is ridiculous and says more about the person making the argument than anything."

Do you Obama lovers do any research at all before posting comments? The previous ones didn't bother reading the article, and you, my friend, have failed to do your research.

Regarding your statement that "if Obama wasn't a natural born citizen, he could not run for President", that is exactly what some here are trying to tell you. Duh...

I still haven't seen any argument that Barack Obama is not a natural born citizen.
Is anyone denying that his mother wasn't a natural born US citizen? If you can't provide proof/info/cogent argument then don't bother because it only makes you look hateful rather than thoughtful.

I am so tired of this copied and recopied piece of nonsense. Why will he not let us see his original birth certificate?

The copy of the birth certificate shown in the article may not be an origianl copy. However, it is an official document. My original birth certificate was a huge elaborate document with my footprints, my parents signatures and the doctor's signature. My orginal birth certificate was misplaced long ago. The copy that I got from the register of deeds office in my home city looks just like the document in the article above.

"I still haven't seen any argument that Barack Obama is not a natural born citizen.
Is anyone denying that his mother wasn't a natural born US citizen? If you can't provide proof/info/cogent argument then don't bother because it only makes you look hateful rather than thoughtful."

Ummm...excuse me, but you still don't get it, do you? Please, please, please.....do your research on what a natural-born citizen is. While you're at it, READ THE CONSTITUTION. Because I have a sneaking suspicion that you haven't. It clearly says that a _president_ (not his/her mother) must be a natural-born citizen.
Also, I might add that the burden of proof is on YOUR silly side. If I'm applying for a driver's license, I must prove that I'm a citizen. I can't foam at the mouth and say to the DMV, "Prove I'm not a citizen!!! Prove I'm not! I dare ya! I double dare ya! And if you can't prove that I'm not, you're just being 'hateful, so give me that license!'"

I just hope they prove he is not a citizen so we don't have Al Quaida visiting the White House for tea and "peace" talks.

I see the slime machine, of the Bush-McCain Repuplicans, is here, en mass, in hopes of sliming the next President and Vice-President of the United States, Senator Barrack Obama and Senator Joe Biden. It's too bad they don't pull their heads out of the sand and realize, or accept, that their ticket, the McCain-Palin ticket, each has been investigated for official misconduct !!! I guess that doesn't matter, as long as they get their slime out there and distract the voters, as to the undesirability of their ticket, the Ticket to Nowhere !!
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, BRING THEM HOME, ALIVE AND WHOLE. NOW.

Someone mentioned that factcheck is the only one who has checked out the birth certficate. And factcheck said it was just fine. FYI, factcheck is funded by the Annenberg Foundation. Oh, hey, do you know who else was funded by the Annenberg Foundation? Obama. He was the founding chairman of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge. Coincidence? Isn't it interesting that FactCheck was the only group to get their hands on the document? Obama has been in cahoots with them since at least 1995. Are we shocked they said it was authentic?

What I find interesting in this is that the birth certificate surfaces just days after BO sees his grandmother - I assume this is where it was kept. Cause and effect or just coinicidence?

Any word on how grandma is doing?

"Someone mentioned that factcheck is the only one who has checked out the birth certficate. And factcheck said it was just fine. FYI, factcheck is funded by the Annenberg Foundation. Oh, hey, do you know who else was funded by the Annenberg Foundation? Obama. He was the founding chairman of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge. Coincidence? Isn't it interesting that FactCheck was the only group to get their hands on the document? Obama has been in cahoots with them since at least 1995. Are we shocked they said it was authentic?"

This is a very powerful point, no question.

Obama's Aunt Found Living in Rundown Boston Neighborhood
The Democratic candidate's Kenyan aunt is found living in a rundown public housing neighborhood in South Boston.
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/30/obamas-aunt-living-rundown-boston-neighborhood/

MAYBE WE SHOULD ASK THE WEALTH SPREADER'S AUNT. CHARITY STARTS AT HOME.
Max

What I find interesting in this is that the birth certificate surfaces just days after BO sees his grandmother - I assume this is where it was kept. Cause and effect or just coinicidence?

Any word on how grandma is doing?

Posted by: Terry | October 30, 2008 8:19 PM
A silent mouth is melodious.
Irish Proverb
Max

According to information from the U.S. State Department, Obama cannot be a natural-born citizen if he we born outside the US. Here is quote from their website (http://travel.state.gov/law/info/info_609.html) :

"Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock: A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) INA provided the citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen are required for physical presence in the U.S. to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child."

As you correctly stated in the article, the problem for Obama is that his American mother was only 18 at the time of his birth. It was impossible for her to meet the requirement of living the US for 5 years after the age of 14 because she was too young. According to the information from the State Department, the original requirements are in effect and there is not retroactive change in the law for people born between 1952 and 1986.

You also referenced the Hawaiian birth certificate that Obama has shown a few select reporters as evidence of being a natural-born citizen. While some question the authenticity of this document, even if it is a real document it does not prove that Obama was born in Hawaii. According to the state of Hawaii, birth certificates can be issued for foreign births. (See http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/index.html )

Here is the quote from that webpage:

"Amended certificates of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) a person born in a foreign country."

The only way to verify Obama's claim to be a natural born citizen is to see his full birth records, but Obama refuses to release this information.

Please check out the references for yourself. I hope and expect that you will correct the information in the article as soon as possible.

The document is NOT an original birth certificate. It is computer generated.(Non existent in 1961.) The State of Hawaii has now sealed BO's records. HUM........... Is everyone in the tank for the poorest choice for president in our history? If there is nothing to hide, let's see the original document. There are just too many things wrong with this guy. From reading his (ghost written) books I'm convinced he is a Marxist. That's a fact. You don't need a certificate to see that. All his friends are crooks, American haters, terrorists or commies. Hello, where do you think your Bill of Rights is going? With BO in office we can just change our name to the Soviet States of American.
It's simple. If you are a parasite on society and want the Government to control every aspect of your life, then vote for this nonqualified, Marxist, lying, arrogant little prick. If you are a producer who takes care of your own problems & want nothing from the government you need to vote against him.
Here’s the bottom line for all you Liberal whiners……..With few exceptions, everyone gets exactly what they deserve in life. Work hard and success follows. Stand around with your hand out crying …….you will always be a loser.

What I find psychologically interesting is that posters such as "TLouise" still call the above image a 'birth certificate' when it clearly isn't.

The theory of cognitive dissonance holds that when people are confronted with facts that contradict their pre-conceived views, they don't change their views, they reject the facts. "Tlouise" is a casebook study of this.

There is a possibility that Obama's Certificate of Live Birth has been amended. That is why it is of utmost importance to examine the original document. If an amendment was made then the computer generated copy would only show the amended information. If it was amended then it is important to ask why it was amended, by whom and when.

Max,

Better to be a smart a__, than a dumb a__

Don Fitzgerald-if you think bringing the troops home now is going to help anyone in anyway you are the one with your head in the sand. I come from a large, nothing but military family and they want to fight and believe in what they are fighting for. Get your facts straight before you speak for them. I have a retired 4 star general that still goes year after year to train the Iraqi troops so our troops can come home victorious. My nephew is in a tank fighting in danger zones. I have many more examples, but my point is that men and women are still signing up today knowing where they are headed and they are PROUD and I am PROUD of them for doing such a heroic job that I know I could never do. So here's to all our TROOPS! They have opions too and they have a job to do and they accept their missions and the task at hand. And, thanks, Don, you probably one of the proud supporters of your community service leader.....and YOU should get YOUR head out of the sand.

confirmed by State.

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/31/state-declares-obama-birth-certificate-genuine-1/

The notion that the image posted to four different websites is a true copy of Obama's original birth certificate ranks right up there with Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Boogie Man, and Area 51.
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Time to get real, people.
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I'm the one, and the only one, to have proved, conclusively, indisputedly, and honestly, that the images posted to OBama's website (Fight The Smears), the Daily Kos blog, Politifact, and FactCheck.org, were all made from ONE SINGLE FORGED IMAGE.
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The original image was made from a scan of a real, 2007 Hawaiian "Certificate of Live Birth," (COLB) that belonged to someone other than Obama (No, not his sister).
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This image was saved in format other than JPG, and imported into a graphics program (NOT Photoshop) where the existing text was covered over with portions of the background pattern, and on top of that, fraudulent information was written in to make the image LOOK like it was Obama's COLB.
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Then, it was intentionally resaved as a JPG, at a 45% compresion ratio -- to hide the areas where the forging was made. That's the reason why the image (especially the borders) looks so lousy .
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I also proved that the black rectangle covering up the Certificate Number was, indeed, put there via Photoshop, because that number contained the document code, year of birth, and the sequential number assigned chronologically to that birth record.
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That's all. If Obama's real birth record does not match anything on the forged image, then he is in pretty deep.
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I proved that these images were forgeries over four months ago, with all documentation posted to both The Free Republic forum, and to my blog, The Greater Evil.
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I have been collecting and analyzing information ever since that image was posted on June 12th
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Not only did I discover the methods used by the forger, I validated my discovery by using them to recreate an Obama COLB clone. Any attempt at recreating the COLB image MUST show the same, exact pixel patterns that I found between the letters in the original forged images.If it does not show those pixel patterns, then it does not demonstrate how the forgery was made.
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People say, "What about the Factcheck photos" that were allegedly taken of a real COLB on August 22?
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The answer begins with a conundrum:
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They cannot be real if the image is bogus. If the image is bogus, then so are the photos.
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But, not only by logic, but by examinations that prove that one of the paper COLBs (Yes, there were more than one) used for the Factcheck's photo shoot was a color laser printout made from an enhanced copy of the scan image -- and not the other way around.
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You can read about my research here, on Free Republic:
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http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2084512/posts
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Or on Phil Berg's website, ObamaCrimes.Com.
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To date, no one has been able to show that this bogus image was the result of scanner artifacts, JPG artifacts, anti-aliased text, or any other naturally occurring phenomenon.
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There is only one possible way for the Obama COLB image to look the way it does, and that's by direct graphic alteration of the text made after the scan image was saved.
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Basically, this is the smoking gun, and the only smoking gun in this birth certificate conspiracy. Yes, it is a real conspiracy considering who and how many people are involved in this forgery and cover-up.

Want Truth? Listen to plainsradio.com and learn

A Citizen and Native born Oklahoman has sued the United States claiming Civil Rights damages for the lack of definition of the Constitutional term “Natural Born Citizen” found in Article II.

“When I became aware during the 2008 Presidential Campaigns that there was no ‘legal of Constitutionally recognized definition for Natural Born Citizen I felt like my American Heritage had been stolen.” Mr. Craig said.

It took him until April of 2009 to prepare the Civil Rights case, as he could not find an attorney or Legal Firm he could afford and set about preparing the case Pro Se In Forma Paperis, (Representing himself without ability to pay fee’s)

Beginning the case in the local United States District Court of the Western District of Oklahoma, 03-0343, he said he knew it would be an uphill battle. “The legal system is set up much like a monopoly for Legal Professional’s and don’t take kindly to people off the street trying to take matters in their own hands, unless of course you a prison inmate or a favored minority victim.” Mr. Craig opined.

The Judge of the Oklahoma District Court took little time in dismissing the case Sua Sponte, (on his own discretion), expressing his judgement that the case as written lacked the recognizable elements of a ‘case or controversy’ and ‘claims and remedies’. The Judge allowed for the submission of an Amended Claim which Mr. Craig filed within weeks of the threatened Summary Judgement to which the Judge affirmed his previous Judgement to Dismiss adding it was now to be ‘with prejudice, (not allowed to resubmit at his court) The Judge added that he did not think that Mr. Craig could prevail against a ‘Motion for Dismissal’ he anticipated would be coming from the Defendant, the United States of America.

Mr. Craig promptly filed an Appeal to the United States Court of Appeals, Tenth Circuit in Colorado, 09-6082 with a Motion to allow a Second Amended Complaint and a Motion to invoke Rule 22 of the Appeals Court Rules, (Suspend the Rules and Hear the Merits).

Mr. Craig, after determining that the Appeals case was properly Docketed and the period for the Defendant, the United States of America, to reply had begun, Mr. Craig prepared and filed a Petition for Writ of Certiorari at the Supreme Court of the United States, 08-10817, under Rule 11, (Petition before Judgement at the Appeals Circuit Court level).

“I feel honestly violated that the nature of my Citizenship has been so disregarded by 222 years of Legislative and Judicial actions that had I have been aware of this circumstance when I was a younger man I honestly feel I would have begun this crusade sooner. But the fact that I am nearly 60 years old will not deter me from reclaiming that Heritage of ‘Natural Born Status’ of American Citizenship. It was of enough importance for the Framers of the Constitution to put it in as a qualification for any that would quest to be the Political leader of the Nation, the Helmsman at the Tiller of the Ship of State, the Presidency of the United States of America, so I insist that it must be of consequence, import and of value.” Mr. Craig said, musing and explaining his motivation for the suing for a definition of Natural Born Citizen

Asked about the strategy and purpose of filing for a Writ at the Supreme Court and the current status of the case Mr. Craig explained,

“I’m not a legal strategist but it seemed to me since the Rule was there specifically for cases that presented ‘questions of National importance’ there was a chance the Court would hear the merits and advise the Appeals Court to compel the Defendant, the United States of America to respond and offer their definition of Natural Born Citizen and their justifications for it. I have no reason to doubt that the definition the United States presents and mine are the same since they appear that way in light of the Senate Resolution 511 defining Sen. John McCain a Natural Born Citizen by virtue of being born to two citizen parents in spite of uncertainty of the jurisdiction. If that is the case then the Court will be obliged to enter a Declaratory Judgement which will move the definition closer to codification in the Rules of Law of the United States and I will be able to say in jest that I am the First Legally recognized Natural Born Citizen in America.

“As to the status of the case it is pending in the 10th Circuit subject to the Supreme Court Conference hearing on September 29th, ’09, when the Court returns from their summer vacations.”

Mr. Craig has a ‘blogspot’ web page that he said he would keep updated through the summer for anyone who might have questions, wants more information or would like to know how they can help in getting the courts to hear the question and legally define ‘Natural Born Citizen’.

http://foundersowndreams.blogspot.com/

Reported by Patriotcrusade@aol.com