Dems to auto execs: no plan, no money

Lets be honest-
The only way out -Lower union wages and ;less union work rules, and lessen executives perks and salary only possible way they might survive-

Probably a good idea to ask how the money would be spent. Probably should have thought of that before the 750B bailout to buy toxic bank assets . . . or whatever it is being used for now.

but only if they present a viable plan that gives us, the Congress, the confidence that taxpayers and the AUTO WORKERS will be well served.

Hint: He is talking about the union,not the employees.

The only way out is to break the hold that the UAW has on the domestic Big 3. UAW cost: $73 an hour all up, domestic transplants $48 an hour. That $25 an hour makes all the difference. I don't see it happening with the current process; the Democrats in Congress are bent on protecting their union supporters. The only way I see it happening is through the bankruptcy courts, where a judge can make the UAW come to the table.

Yes, the UAW made concessions in the most recent contract, but they aren't all in until 2010, and by then it will be too late. The fire department arrived, but the house had already burned to the ground.

There's not a bank in the world that would give a business a major loan like this and NOT get a solid plan on what the money would be used for, how and when it would be paid back, etc. The auto execs should have known better than this and had their stuff together. On top of that, they fly in on private jets, f'petesake! What WERE they thinking?

I'd agree that the UAW is NOT helping the situation, but at that same time don't see how they're going to get out of the contract. Could be the union will get their members to vote some concessions on their pay and their benefits in order to save their jobs, but that's not something I'd count on. What SHOULD go is the executive bonuses, the golden parachutes, and probably a good chunk of their salary and benefits. All in all, maybe we should be looking into buying a horse and buggy.

The leaders of the "big three" did a horrible job of selling their request in Washington the last three days.

The leader of the UAW just sat there and awaited his pawns in Congress to give him taxpayer monies!

Until concessions are made by both the "big three" and the UAW the Congress should give them nothing.

The first concession the UAW should make is giving up the "job bank" were you show up and do nothing and get paid $75.00 an hour. That is beyond ridiculous!

First of all, the figures on UAW wages being quoted are bunk, even if one includes the "estimated value" of health benefits to employees for which companies get a tax break and employees have little control. Second of all, while GM has been laying off workers in droves, look what has Toyota been doing? Management is responsible for Detroits problems, not the worker.

http://edgehopper.com/what-toyota-knows-that-gm-doesnt/

"don't see how they're going to get out of the contract"- Op109

By declaring bankruptcy, which is what they should do. The auto industry needs some help, but not in its current state. If they're going to "run out of money by April", then what good would giving them more money do? Pad more executive perks/parachutes? As someone else stated, if a small business had books showing a huge tanking trend, would any lending institution grant them money?

If Honda/Toyota can survive and profit in this economy and in the States, then bankrupting the big 3 and starting over is the only way to go. Is it ideal? No. Will UAW workers suffer - yes, and that is a difficult effect of this, but it's re-structure or cease to exist.

Proposed Plan:

All three of the Big Three merge as American Auto. GM, Chrysler and Ford are subsidiaries of AA.

Make timelines for better MPG and hybrids.

Keep all Big Oil lobbyists totally away from AA or anyone doing business with or for AA.

Charge small % of each foreign car sold in America--even if the car is built in America by foreign firms to help pay for AA retirements.
Especially do "paybacks" for all the years Asian auto manufacturers undersold American manufacturers while charging tariffs for American autos sold in their countries.

Give American citizens coupons worth 3-4K to buy AA autos as incentives to buy American.

Bring in engineers from the aerospace industry, the superconductivity industry, Lubrizol Corp., and some sci-fi thinkers to help AA with innovations. Add some farmers and non-college educated mechanics to the mix.

Have outlines of the Green Revolution and the Manhattan Project at hand to see the flow of thought.

Put the CEOs of the AA subsidiaries on the committees to pass universal health care so health care can be given to workers and retirees along with other Americans so not to break AA's back.

Take away any "need to be referred by an employed family member" unspoken rules from the employment process to work in the auto industry. AA needs to be as democratic as possible.

Reward the designs that any of the subsidiaries may already be doing correctly at this time--but have yet to emerge as completed projects.

Don't give the workers third world wages as we need to maintain a strong middle class in America.

Make the mufflers out of stainless steel.

I don't think a bailout is in order. A take-over, now that makes some sense, but a bailout, no. N-O. No.

While I wouldn't want to see the Govt. get into the auto business forever, I do think that this business has got to be completely cleaned out before it willrun again. The culture of the US auto industry has to change, completely, forever, and only the removal of managerial power from these most-benighted of all US executives can do that. The Auto industry has had more balouts and more crisis and more wake-up calls than any other industry, and it still won't smell the coffee, so take the steaming hot coffee and dump the whole pot in their faces. really. The time for making fuel-efficient cars and adopting just-in-time production methods, cutting executive salaries, and giving workers a seat on the board of directors was 30 years ago, in the Carter era. These people have had a 30 year tax payer funded (certainly not sales funded, since those have done nothing but drop while they rode the washington trust fund express) vacation from reality, and it's time they were shaken awake, hard.

Teh only guy they should keep is Bill Ford, who actually tried to bring his families company into the 21st century only to face stonewall of shareholders, executives, and engineers who just wouldn't go there. Now we can MAKE them go there, or they can just go to hell.

Over and out.

Inky wants to blame the workers.
Of course.
But the union already gave up too much over the years.
there must be:
1. GOVERNMENT MONITORING OF NEW MANAGEMENT. KICK THE BUMS OUT OF THE SUITES.
2. RETOOLING TO MORE ECONOMICAL CARS FUEL WISE.
a. THEY MUST COMMIT TO PRODUCE THE ELECTRIC CAR FOR ERRAND RUNNING LOCALLY--THE ONES THEY SMASHED AND SHREDDED.
b. THEY MUST COMMIT TO PRODUCING HYBRIDS LIKE THE PRIUS FOR LONG DISTANCE PURCHASE OR RENTAL PURPOSES.
3. THEY MUST RELEASE ALL THE PATENTS THEY HAVE PURCHASED AND SQUELCHED RE: ENERGY GENERATION AND DISTRIBUTION TECHNOLOGY AND TRANSPORTATION TECHNOLOGY.
4. THEY MUST BUILD LIGHT RAIL AND MASS TRANSIT COMPONENTS.

Here's the stinking, green, steaming elephant turd in the room;
If we had national health insurance the US Big Three would be competitive.
We should have been there in the late 70's, early 80's.

Here's the stinking, green, steaming elephant turd in the room;
If we had national health insurance the US Big Three would be competitive.
We should have been there in the late 70's, early 80's.

PS, I like Vivian's plan.

A better energy performing car would be a start. Oh wait they already exist but are only available in Canada or over seas ( No Britney, Canada is not overseas)!

Spot on Vivian!! I'm not sure about the AA thing, but the rest is great. I would only add that they make public IP that they have not used in the last 5 years.

vivian--=add to that list
GET RID of the current management;
confiscate their stock options and give them the wage of the highest paid line worker as retirement
FREE THE PATENTS
the oil/auto copmanies and all employees have purchased and SAT upon re: technology for energy generation/distribution and transportation

United Airlines filed for bankruptcy without interrupting their flight schedule - the automakers should be able to do the same without shutting down production.

Bankruptcy should allow firing of the execs that mismanaged their companies into this mess as well as renegotiation of bloated union wages and benefits.

As a result, each companiy would emerge leaner and more competitive - all without wasting taxpayer money on maintaining the unsustainable status quo.

All the talk about patent release is great. It may need to occur later, rather than sooner.
GM's unions are poised to take over their pension funds. So even if GM goes bankrupt (and it will be the shortest one you've ever seen) it will be b-a-a-a-a-a-c-c-c-c-k.
And, union haters--so will the union jobs.
Again--the PENSIONS are protected by the union contracts.
If we had REAL business reporters, this would be known.
However, GM goes bankrupt, and a LOT of other little companies go under.
That's why I'm thinking MAYBE we ought to bail them out and GO AFTER MANAGEMENT LATER.
They'll be in trouble soon enough when the real sheriff is on board.
Then we can get all the things we need.
Amazing to hear Detroit car
'journalists' tlaking about how we're 10 years away from a 100 mile battery.
Rent "Who Killed the Electric Car"

The Big Three have been hemming and hawing about the viability of electric cars while small, independent companies like Tesla Motors are building them and SELLING them as fast as they build them.

The Tesla roadster has a 240 mile recharge range compared to Chevy's Volt with roughly a 60 mile range.

I understand the Tesla is a $100,000+ car, but how is it THEY can develop technology like that and GM, Ford & Chrysler cannot?

If no bailout meant the top execs at all three companies would get tossed overboard, I'd be for it in a heartbeat. Having been through this exercise myself, I know it will be the worker bees who will be sacrificed so that the execs don't lose their bonuses and corporate jets.

Slogan for Tesla;

'Tesla! Putting economy out of reach of the people that need it most!'

You might say the same thing about Toyota, Honda, Nissan.

I was checking them out in August and the Prius started at $25K. Went over to Honda and the jerk told me there was 2k 'addendem program' in effect. He saw the stupid look on my face and said, 'we are adding $2k to every sticker price, new and used'.

I laughed in his face and walked out.

Though I think the big three must be saved, they are of course not innocent. In the 30's GM bought out all the little light rail lines in small American cities and ripped up all the tracks. It was called progress then, making way for the auto.

Just specifically what are those patents that the auto and oil companies have purchased and sat on?

Remember two things:

1. Patents have limited life. Now it's 20 years from the date of application (used to be 17 years from issuance) and are non-renewable. Once that time runs out, anybody can use the idea. So if the companies have been doing this for a long time, there must be plenty of stuff that's now in the public domain.

2. If a company has a patent and doesn't commercialize it, the patent office can invalidate the patent for non-pursuit. So, sitting on patents for long periods is not really feasible, if somebody finds out about it and pursues the idea with the patent office.

The idea that the auto and oil companies have bought up and are sitting on patents is an urban legend. More bluntly, it's nonsense.

GM would never negotiate with GM, Ford and Crysler unions as a block.
Why are our reps allowing the companies to negotiate as a block to get taxpayer's money ? GM, Ford, and Chrysler have different problems. Each should be dealth with on its own terms. d

Gas prices in my area just dropped below $2 today.

SUV and big truck sales are rebounding!.

America is incapable of learning.

It's peddle to the metal again around here.

Idiots.