by Mark Silva
Vice President Dick Cheney says he supported interrogation tactics that were used against the terrorist Khalid Sheikh Mohammed -- including that which has been described as "water-boarding.''
"I was aware of the program, certainly, and involved in helping get the process cleared, as the agency in effect came in and wanted to know what they could and couldn't do,'' Cheney says in an interview with ABC News' Jonathan Karl. "And they talked to me, as well as others, to explain what they wanted to do. And I supported it. ''
In hindsight, does he believe any of the tactics went too far?
"I don't,'' Cheney says.
"And on KSM, one of those tactics, of course, widely reported was water-boarding,'' Karl asks, in the interview conducted today - with excerpts airing on World News with Charles Gibson this evening and the full interview airing on Good Morning America on Tuesday. "That seems to be a tactic we no longer use. Even that you think was appropriate? ''
"I do,'' Cheney says.
And the U.S. detention camp at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, may have to remain open, Cheney says in this interview, so long as there is a war on terror.
Cheney downplays talk that the U.S. might not have gone to war in Iraq if the pre-war intelligence on weapons of mass destruction had been more accurate, according to a transcript released by ABC.
"I disagree with that,'' Cheney says. "As I look at the intelligence with respect to Iraq, what they got wrong was that there weren't any stockpiles.
"What we found in the after-action reports, after the intelligence report was done and then various special groups went and looked at the intelligence and what its validity was... what they found was that Saddam Hussein still had the capability to produce weapons of mass destruction,'' Cheney says. "He had the technology, he had the people, he had the basic feed stocks.
"They also found that he had every intention of resuming production once the international sanctions were lifted,'' he says. "He had a long reputation and record of having started two wars. Of having brutalized and killed hundreds of thousands of people, some of them with weapons of mass destruction in his own country. He had violated 16 National Security Council resolutions. He had established a relationship as a terror sponsoring state according to the State Department. He was making $25,000 payments to the families of suicide bombers.
"This was a bad actor and the country's better off,'' Cheney says, "the world's better off, with Saddam gone and I think we made the right decision in spite of the fact that the original NIE was off in some of its major judgments. ''
When might the camp at Guantanamo be closed?
"Well, I think that that would come with the end of the war on terror,'' Cheney says. "Nobody knows. Nobody can specify that. Now, in previous wars, we've always exercised the right to capture the enemy and then hold them till the end of the conflict. That's what we did in World War II with, you know, thousands, hundreds of thousands of German prisoners.
"The same basic principle ought to apply here in terms of our right to capture the enemy and hold them,'' he says. "The other option is to turn them over to somebody else. A lot of them, nobody wants. I mean, there's a great resistance sometimes in the home countries to taking these people back into their own territory.''
So does that mean it should remain open indefinitely?
"A lot of people, including the president, expressed the view that they'd like to close Guantanamo,'' Cheney says. "I think everybody can say we wished there were no necessity for Guantanamo. But you have to be able to answer these other questions before you can do that responsibly. And that includes, what are you going to do with the prisoners held in Guantanamo? And nobody yet has solved that problem. ''
Is there a danger in shutting the place too soon, as a symbolic gesture?
"Well, if you release people that shouldn't have been released -- and that's happened in some cases already -- you end up with them back on the battlefield,'' he says. "And we've had, as I recall now -- and these are rough numbers, I'd want to check them -- but, say, approximately 30 of these folks have been held in Guantanamo, then released, and ended up back on the battlefield again, and we've encountered them a second time around. But they've either been killed or captured in further conflicts with our forces.''
Comments
This has been the issue that has been heart of the matter from the beginning: Since when has the office of the Vice-President ever been actively involved in the approval of Torture!?!?!
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"I was aware of the program, certainly, and involved in helping get the process cleared, as the agency in effect came in and wanted to know what they could and couldn't do,'' Cheney says in an interview with ABC News' Jonathan Karl. "And they talked to me, as well as others, to explain what they wanted to do. And I supported it. ''
In hindsight, does he believe any of the tactics went too far?
"I don't,'' Cheney says.
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Impeach, Impeach, ImpeachImpeachIMPEACH! IMPEACH!!!!!!!
Posted by: pearlywhite | December 15, 2008 6:29 PM
Obama needs to investigate and prosecute the criminals Bush & Cheney.
Posted by: Dave | December 15, 2008 6:36 PM
He needs to spend some time in an undisclosed prison.
I throw my shoes at him.
Posted by: Flo | December 15, 2008 6:38 PM
Send this to the ICRC, it will be helpful for the prosecution of the Vice President. No pardon will protect him from international law. He can only avoid prosecution by never leaving our borders again. No more skiing in Switzerland!
Posted by: David W. Aubrey | December 15, 2008 6:41 PM
Throw shoes and the book at him.
Posted by: Kenny Bunkport ✌ | December 15, 2008 8:41 PM
My biggest concern with all of this is that Bush/Cheney will never be investigated for all of this (I'll give them the small benefit of the doubt).
Cheney said that the one torture case resulted in lots of information against al Qaeda but NEVER mentioned that anyone was ever in danger.
Unfortunately, there is an attitude that you never go after a previous President.
These were not simple crimes. The Geneva Conventions were dissolved on the order of the President. Most likely illegal. Congress probably has to do that.
More to the point, these are crimes against HUMANITY.
Until this is resolved, our standing in the world community will never be the same.
Posted by: W OBrien | December 15, 2008 8:43 PM
Thanks Nancy...
Posted by: C.Morris | December 15, 2008 9:10 PM
Cheney; America's own 'Mr. Potter'.
Posted by: C.Morris | December 15, 2008 9:29 PM
For once I will agree to the use of torture...for Cheney himself, but with this caveat, that Cheney submits to it only so long as he agrees it's not torture. As soon as, or if, he asks us to stop as he has come to believe that waterboarding amounts to torture or cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment, then we will stop, and proceed with ordinary methods of interrogation and prosecution.
W and Cheney don't know whether the Guantanamo inmates are "avowed enemies" .They have not yet been brought to trial or even formally and publicly accused. That's the problem, these two dopes don't even know who they have in Gitmo. They really doesn't understand the basic principle of habeas corpus.
I hope we will be able to pull together the necessary prosecutions to really nail these (W and Cheney) thugs.
Posted by: agent orange | December 16, 2008 12:49 AM
Read Vincent Bugliosoi's book. Shoes are too good for either of them.
Waterboard Cheney today1
Posted by: Never too late to impeach, never too late to imprison for murder of servicemen from everystate | December 16, 2008 5:33 AM
Isn't torture of prisoners a violation of the Geneva Convention and other international laws?? No U.S. official is above international law and treaties. And this is the same exact thing Hitler ordered in the 1930's...the arrest and imprisonment of adversaries without cause or trial for undetermined periods of time.
Posted by: Doug R. | December 16, 2008 10:54 AM
The impeach Bush/Cheney thing is not going to happen. The Military Commission Act of 2006 gave Bush the authority to interpret the provisions of the Geneva Convention, including what constitutes torture. Obviously, Bush decided that waterboarding did not cross that line. Personally, I disagree with him. My understanding of the practice is that it is not designed to cause permanent injury, but I believe it subjects the detainee to an unreasonable risk of permanent injury, e.g., drowning. But Congress didn't authorize me or anyone else to make that call. They authorized Bush. Lastly, if you think the Obama Administration is going to turn Bush/Cheney over to some foreign or international court, you live in a fantasy world.
Posted by: Herbie H. | December 16, 2008 11:07 AM
I'll stick with Jefferson on this one.
To paraphrase;
'I'd rather 10 guilty men not be tortured, than have one innocent man tortured.'
(Something to that effect.)
Posted by: C.Morris | December 16, 2008 12:19 PM
Isn't torture of prisoners a violation of the Geneva Convention and other international laws?? No U.S. official is above international law and treaties. And this is the same exact thing Hitler ordered in the 1930's...the arrest and imprisonment of adversaries without cause or trial for undetermined periods of time.
Posted by: Doug R. | December 16, 2008 10:54 AM
Doug R- you couldn't be more melodramatic..
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Torture and mistreatment of prisoners of war is a violation of the Geneva agreement... the problem is that al queda and taliban fighter are NOT covered by the geneva convention... so whatever your opinion is about torture, or if waterboarding is considered torture means nothing from a legal point of view. The facts is that the three poor unfortunate souls (not) who were provided with additional incentives to tell us how to stop more terror attacks did not have rights under the geneva convention.
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Take a look at this article
( granted, an editorial) from national review today... might help with clearing up some of the misunderstandings and politicizing of the war on terror..
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http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NDZkNjZhMGJhMTcwODMzZDUzZWViZTYxZWNhN2Q5ZjI=
Posted by: heartburn | December 16, 2008 12:47 PM