Roland Burris: Blago's 'problems' not his

by Mark Silva

None of Roland Burris' "people'' were successful at reaching any of Barack Obama's "people'' -- at least that's what the man appointed to replace the president-elect in the Senate, the former senator who maintains that the governor of Illinois has no business appointing anyone to replace him, says about all this.

Obama has spoken out quite plainly: He agrees with the Senate's Democratic leaders that Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich, accused by federal authorities of attempting to sell the seat of the former junior senator from Illinois elected to the presidency, should not be attempting to replace Obama. The Senate Democrats say they won't seat Blagojevich's appointee.

Enter Burris, a former state attorney general who ran for governor a few times -- even against Blagojevich -- and helped the governor raise money for his campaign, an official with a long and largely respected record of public service. Obama, the only black member of the Senate before election as the first African-American president, is maintaining in no ununcertain terms that Burris, the first black official elected statewide in Illinois, cannot succeed him -- not because of Burris's own profile, but because of Blagojevich's own problems.

"We certainly tried to reach out to him today,'' Burris said of Obama, during an appearance on The Rachel Maddow Show last night, "but I don't think my people were successful in reaching any of his people.''

Burris maintains that the governor's "problems'' should have no bearing on his own appointment to the Senate.

"All of the rest of this is the side drama of the governor's problems,'' he said in the MSNBC interview. "It has nothing to do with the qualifications of the individual or the dedication or the service of the individual, because I am in no way condoning anything that the governor has done.

"But what I perceive the governor is doing is saying it's his duty and it's really his responsibility, to have two senators representing the great state of Illinois, especially in these difficult times. And so, that was my judgment and decision after I counseled with a few of my supporters and friends, that, yes, should he appoint me, that I should accept it and hope and pray that the powers to be would recognize that there is a distinction between Blagojevich's problems and him carrying out his constitutional and legal duties as governor, which he is still doing.''

Here, courtesy of MSNBC, is a transcript of Maddow's interview with Burris:

MADDOW: Joining us now is the man of the hour, former Illinois Attorney General Roland Burris, Governor Blagojevich's choice to fill Barack Obama's Senate seat.

Mr. Burris, it's such a pleasure to have you on the show tonight.
Thank you so much for joining us.

BURRIS: Rachel, it's my pleasure. I've watched you almost every evening, and now I'm on your show. I'm honored.

MADDOW: Well, thank you. You are at the center of the political world tonight, and we feel very lucky to have you.

I have to ask you first about the president-elect releasing a statement tonight in which he expressed great respect for you, but he called the governor's decision to appoint anyone to this seat, quote, "extremely disappointing." He says Senate Democrats should not accept you in the Senate.

I have to ask you if you've reached out to President-elect Obama's team and what your reaction is to his statement.

BURRIS: Well, we certainly tried to reach out to him today, but I don't think my people were successful in reaching any of his people.

But, Rachel, the question is, did the governor have the authority to make the appointment? And if people would just stop for a moment and read the 17th Amendment of the United States Constitution, you will find that the governor of a state has a right to fill a vacancy of -- if there's a vacancy in the United States Senate from that particular state. That's all that's taken place here.

All of the rest of this is the side drama of the governor's problems. It has nothing to do with the qualifications of the individual or the dedication or the service of the individual, because I am in no way condoning anything that the governor has done.

But what I perceive the governor is doing is saying it's his duty and it's really his responsibility, to have two senators representing the great state of Illinois, especially in these difficult times.

And so, that was my judgment and decision after I counseled with a few of my supporters and friends, that, yes, should he appoint me, that I should accept it and hope and pray that the powers to be would recognize that there is a distinction between Blagojevich's problems and him carrying out his constitutional and legal duties as governor, which he is still doing.

MADDOW: I don't think there's a question that he has the legal authority to do this. But the question is whether it is irresponsible to do this? Whether by doing this while he's under this ethical cloud and essentially awaiting indictment, he's crippling the ability of the next United States senator from Illinois to get your job done, to get that job done because of the association with the governor?

BURRIS: In terms of what -- in terms of -- how is he crippling that? What he's doing is making sure that his duty is done so then the senator can make sure that the duty is done for the 13 million people of our great state. That's all that's taking place here. And the rest of this ends up being a whole lot to do about his problems and not about the problems that are facing the nation and the need for Illinois to have a full complement of two senators. That's what's taking place.

MADDOW: Mr. Burris, in the three weeks since this scandal has emerged, you called Governor Blagojevich's alleged actions pretty appalling. You called them just reprehensible. I believe you supported the effort to have the governor removed from office by the state supreme court. But then today you said that you had no comment on the governor's circumstance. Why the change?

BURRIS: Well, the change came -- at the time the attorney general
-- and I'm a former attorney general -- and I said also, if I were attorney general at the time, I would certainly have sought the remedy that she sought, because we needed to have a clarification as to whether or not this was going to be a tool to clear up the situation.

And the supreme court summarily did not even hear it. It dismissed it, you know, forthwith.

So based on that, there are other elements at work. So there is no crime at this point that -- or conviction at this point, of the governor. The governor -- and as a former attorney general, Rachel, under our laws, you are innocent, what, until you're proven guilty. And there has been no guilt here proven by any court of law against the governor. He still has the powers. And therefore, Illinois still has to have representation.

So I'm hoping that the citizens across our state and all your national audience listening, will recognize that there is a distinct difference. I see it, because my commitment is to the people of the state of Illinois. That's what I see the governor is seeking to do, regardless to his problems.

I mean, you can have a -- even a criminal ex-offender who would follow the law. And because he was a former ex-offender or something, he could certainly do something that's legal and not be punished for it because, you know, he had done something, you know, allegedly, or you know, already done something he's been convicted for.

So the situation here is a process whereby we're concerned -- and I'm concerned, because I've represented the people there for 20 years -- my whole commitment is for public service. And you know, I ran against Paul Simon for United States Senate in 1984, and I lost the primary, and went on to help him take out the Republican incumbent, Senator Charles Percy, and we sent that great senator to Washington. That's what I'm hoping to do as well, be a great senator, like a Paul Simon, on behalf of the people of Illinois.

I have nothing to do with the problems of the governor. That's the law. That's in the courts. That will run its course.

MADDOW: I...

BURRIS: Yes.

MADDOW: And your reputation as a public servant in Illinois is completely unsullied by scandal, by -- no one is casting aspersions whatsoever on your record as a public servant. But that is, I think, why people are surprised that you would accept this appointment.

Because now I have to ask you the question that you were asked at the press conference today about your political contributions to this governor. None of them look like there's anything wrong with them, but this governor is accused of looking to trade this appointment for political contributions. And, so, you're now put in the position of needing to assure the people of Illinois that your appointment today had nothing to do with your contributions to him. It says nothing about your reputation. It's all about him.

BURRIS: Rachel, rest assured that those few thousand dollars that I gave the governor had no -- absolutely, positively, nothing to do with him appointing me. As a matter of fact, you know, I ran against the governor. He beat me in '02 for governor. So I mean, I don't have any

-- in terms of my supporting the governor, because he's a Democrat, I'm a Democrat, and I have a few dollars and I try to help out in situations where candidates need money. And, so, I made my little small contributions over a four- or five-year period of time.

I'm no big-time donor to the governor. Please don't make any type of ties before my support of the governor and all the other Democratic candidates I support as I'm trying to, in any way, get influence for an appointment of some kind.

MADDOW: And were it any other governor who had appointed you to this seat under any other circumstances, those political contributions would not be raising eyebrows. But because of what Governor Blagojevich is accused of, you'll be answering questions like this for the duration of your appointment if the Senate does accept you.

And I guess I feel that, you know...

BURRIS: I would be more than...

MADDOW: Go ahead, sir.

BURRIS: I'd be more than happy to -- I would be more than happy to answer those questions about my contributions. I mean, check my contributions out for the individuals that went to the Congress. Check out the little, you know, couple of thousand dollars I sent down to Mississippi for the young black man running for the United States Senate in Mississippi, Erik Fleming. I mean, my thing is to do it -- with the little, small resources I have, to be as helpful as I can to get qualified people into government so that they can serve the people.

That is my only choice, and that is my commitment.

I spent 20 years in Illinois government. That is my life, doing public service and being a person who could impact the quality of life of the people of my state. And in this case, the people of America.

MADDOW: Mr. Burris, if Senate Democrats do block your appointment, and they say that they intend to, how far are you willing to take your fight? Would you potentially take it all the way to the Supreme Court if need be?

BURRIS: Well, Rachel, I have been legally appointed by the governor of our state. It is my hope and prayer that my Democratic colleagues will recognize that what they are doing is not in any way, form, shape or fashion, legal. To deny me the seat based on some allegations by the appointee -- by the appointer -- really does not lend itself to disqualify me as an unqualified person to be appointed.

I think my credentials are impeccable. I think that, you know, my integrity is intact. And my certainly attempt to represent the people would cause them to rethink their positions and say, what we have here is an opportunity to get this problem off the table. We have two senators now in our state to help President-elect Obama get his agenda going and to move Illinois and America forward.

That's all my interest is. I have no other interest -- yes, sorry, go ahead.

MADDOW: Just to be clear, you do intend to fight this with all means available to you if they do -- they are saying quite directly that they will block you.

BURRIS: Well, certainly they've said that. And we understand that. And we'll look at the process. And certainly, my intention is to be a United States senator from the great state of Illinois. The appointment is legal. I mean, no one has said his appointment is illegal. They just said his appointment is tainted. What does tainted have to do with legal? And I don't think it's even tainted, because his appointment, Rachel, is legal.

MADDOW: Former Illinois Attorney General Roland Burris, and current United States Senate appointee. Thank you so much for you time tonight. I'm sure there are a lot of demands on your time, and good luck to you, sir.

BURRIS: Thank you, Rachel. Happy new year to you and all your listeners.

MADDOW: Thank you very much. You too.