Supreme Court mum on Obama-birth case

I hope they do look at it. Were I to try to get a drivers license and just gave an email address to the DMV saying that there is a picture there of a redacted copy of a partial birth certificate, I'd be locked up for lunacy. In poker, if someone calls your bluff, you have to show your cards. Show the birth certificate, then all this would be over.. otherwise, the conspiracy theorists will continue to file suit again, and again. A $12 birth certificate sure is better money spent than thousands on defense team lawyers.

There would be not harm to the country if he, Obama, produces the documents and settles the issue. On the other hand if he does not produce the documents his administration will have a shadow from day one.

Bring 'em on !! All those rank Republicans that don't have a leader and a Party, in complete chaos !! Give Maxwell Smart a call, I 'm sure he will be able to help you sort our all of your lies and distortions !! His declaration will be, the same as the Hawaiian state official's, President-elect Obama is, just that, President-elect Obama. Get used to it and Get Smart !! Now, the rank Republicans have added frivolity to their arsenal of political tricks !! I just love it ! Keep it up, boys and girls !!
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, BRING THEM HOME, ALIVE AND WHOLE. NOW.

If Obama was born on US soil, to a US citizen mother and a non citizen father, and the State of Hawaii has vouched for the legitimacy of his birth certificate saying so, then how could his citizenship be in question? If this circumstance places his citizenship into question, what about the millions of others, myself included, who were born on US soil to one parent who was a citizen and one who was not?

The conspiracy theorists can stand all they want. Barack Obama will still be inaugurated on January 20th 2009 and will become America's 44th President. Regardless of your position, you know it's going to happen.

This is so hilarious, the Repubs are so desperate that they're pinning their hopes on some birth certificate delusion?

If the Repubs were so confident about this most recent fairytale story of their's why did they go ahead and waste millions and millions of dollars during the election campaigning against Obama? Why not just whip out the "birth certificate" issue then and use it?

This is great, I love sitting back and watching the Repubs get their hopes dashed again and again when they find out that their delusional propaganda has once again failed the reality test.

HAHAHA!!!

If there was nothing to hide, the proof of eligibility for US President should have been easily provided a long time ago. All this tells me is that there's something to hide.

What is wrong with the people of this country? Leave the man alone. I bet they wouldn't be asking for this "proof" if McCain had gotten the presidential nod. What about the faction of people who would usurp the president having to be a naturalized citizen if they could elect Mr. Swartzenager? Sit back America, relax and let Mr. Obama do his job. He surely can't do any worse than quite a few presidents have done in the past.

If ANYTHING is to come out of all this, can it atleast be some kind of non-partisan board that is responsible for verifying candidates eligibility way in advance?

You would think that all the Obama campaign would have to do is say "Such-and-such group already confirmed Obama's eligibility back in 2006".

What is the big deal??? The American people should not have to take the president elect to court for proof of citizenship. He should have shown up with it a long time ago, put doubters minds at ease and show them the original already...It just looks like BO has somthing to hide.

He HAS produced the document!! When you request a copy of your birth certificated from the state of Hawaii, what he has shown is what you get!!!

If the Supreme Court follows the same theme from the 2000 Presidential election debacle, they will not even review it. The premise from that election was that they will not overturn the will of the voters. It has always been understood that a person born on US soil is a naturalized citizen (that would eliminate John McCain), the Supreme court has never defined it. It has never been previously understood that a naturalized citizen is a person born from two American parents. In addition, for those who are repeatedly posting concerns about Obama's birth certificate you are wasting your time. The appeal concerns the definition of a naturalized certificate and assumes the current Hawaii certificate is authentic.

Let's remember, McCain wasn't born in the U.S. He was born in the Panama Canal Zone. But really, who cares?

He's released a photocopy of his birth certificate. Both the hospital as well as government officials who have access to the files have all said that he was born in Honolulu. That's the end of the story. That's it. It's over. It doesn't matter if he had a dual citizenship, it doesn't matter if he had octuple citizenship. The only thing the constitution says is that the individual must be a natural born citizen. He was born in the U.S. thus he was a natural born citizen. It doesn't matter that the UK would have claimed him as well because of his father's citizenship. It doesn't matter that he was technically a citizen of Kenya as well as the U.S. until he hit the age that his Kenyan citizenship was automatically dropped. None of that is important and he has given the only documents that he should be expected to give to anyone. No, private citizens have absolutely no right to secure the release of his certified birth certificate that is kept by the government of Honolulu. I don't care that he is President-Elect you have zero rights to those documents just as no one has the right to invade your privacy and demand the release of confidential documents. If you're not willing to believe the copy of his birth certificate that he has released than too bad. Go join that crackpot Donofrio who is apparently too stupid to understand either the constitution or what the word standing means.

The people who believe in this conspiracy want me to believe that there's a 47-year conspiracy to perpetrate fraud on the American public by Obama, the state of Hawaii, the State Dep't and the FBI.

The state of Hawaii has already released the COLB, which is proof of the original document, and it was handed over to the media and independent observers last summer.

If the long form original were released, the stupid morons against Obama still wouldn't believe it.

To Eric:

It is not about whether he is a citizen or not. It is about whether he is a "natural born citizen". In order to be President you must be the latter.

In order to be a "natural born citizen" both parents must have been a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth. If you are born in the U.S. and one parent is a U.S. citizen and the other isn't you are then just a citizen, not a "natural born citizen."

In Obama's case his mother was a citizen but his father was not, he was from Kenya. Therefore, technically, Obama is just a citizen and not a "natural born citizen."

This is what the case is about.

Typical "LOONY RIGHT"

Everyone needs to understand that this is not good...for either party. If there is no proof offered and no court will require the irrefutable proof, then a lawsuit will be filed for every law Obama signs. When a criminal is produced by one of those laws, his attorney will claim the law is invalid due to Obama not being eligible. A subpeona will be issued and that overrides privacy issues. In short......if our president elect will not release records proving his status...this is only going to get worse andmessier in the courts

Some of us who would like this looked at are not anti-Obama, but pro-Constitution. It seems most who want this looked at hope Obama can show the proper credentials, so we can move on. I think the Supreme Court should look at this and make a decision based on the Constitution and the facts, one way or the other.

Pure stupidity. I can't believe the SCOTUS will even bother.

46 days till the end of the Bush administration.

"This is great, I love sitting back and watching the Repubs get their hopes dashed again and again when they find out that their delusional propaganda has once again failed the reality test."

If I were a Democrat (thank God I'm not) I would be embarrassed that the next president of the United States can't produce a copy of his own birth certificate. This does not bode well for the future of this country.

You have to be kidding right? The birth certificate was verified months ago by the state of Hawaii where it is filed. It has been posted on the internet for months also.

http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate

I don't understand why he won't just show the birth certificate...if he did & he had nothing to hide, this wouldn't even be an issue. I mean, it shouldn't be a big deal to just prove your U.S. citizenship if you're going to be the next president...

I cannot wait for the day naturalized citizens can run for the white house office!!!

It will happen as by 2050...

Mark my words.

I am a republican and and I hope that the Supreme Court hears this case and rules in favor of Obama. There must be no question about who is in charge of our military. Can you imagine what could happen if our military decided not to take orders from our president because of questions about his legitimacy? This needs to be cleared up now.

What utter garbage.

Will everyone who chooses to believe that President-elect Obama has something to hide regarding his natural U.S. citizenship -- despite this nonsense being debunked over and over again -- please produce your own foolproof, beyond-a-shadow-of-a-doubt birth certificates PROVING that you, too, are natural-born U.S. citizens?

Or do you have something to hide?

I think Donofrio and his ilk have their tinfoil hats a wee bit too tight...

I'm an Obama supporter and he has more than satisfied me that he is a natural-born citizen. However, you undermine your own credibility, not to mention the argument of Obama supporters as a whole, when you blatantly misrepresent the facts of the case.

The Donofrio case has nothing to do with Obama's birth certificate. Donofrio's contention is that Obama is not a "natural born citizen" because, in his view, "natural born citizen" means born on U.S. soil AND born to two U.S. citizen parents. According to Donofrio, assuming Obama was born in Hawaii, he is a "native" citizen, but not a "natural born" citizen. He claims that there is a distinction between the two based on a couple old, obscure cases (United States v. Wong Kim Ark and Perkins v. Elg) that use the term "native" citizen, but not "natural born" citizen.

Personally, I think this case is just as much hooey as the last several cases to get dismissed, but we can't even argue the merits (or lack thereof) until we know what we're arguing about. Please do a little more research before posting, please.

'I bet they wouldn't be asking for this "proof" if McCain had gotten the presidential nod.'

Mccain's was questioned, because he was born in Panama....He turned over his Birth Cert(ORIGINAL) asap.

This is all a moot point -- you don't have to be born in the US to be a natural-born US citizen. All this brouhaha about his Hawaii birth certificate is irrelevant. Even if he was born in Kenya he could still be a natural-born citizen since his mother was unquestionably American.

If it wasn't such a big deal then why has Obama hired 3 law firms to fight against his Hawaii documents as well as his Harvard documents. He has something to hide.

We have a Constitution. Obama should show that he is a natural born citizen of the United States. He needs a birth certificate and not a certificate of live birth (that tells nothing). Why does he not show his birth certificate and his records from the universities that he attended. There was a big to-do about Bush and his college grades. Let the people see what they are getting. Why does he have all these law firms blocking acess to these simple records that anyone else would need for a passport or to get a job?

If the Supreme Court follows the same theme from the 2000 Presidential election debacle, they will not even review it. The premise from that election was that they will not overturn the will of the voters. It has always been understood that a person born on US soil is a naturalized citizen (that would eliminate John McCain), the Supreme court has never defined it. It has never been previously understood that a naturalized citizen is a person born from two American parents. In addition, for those who are repeatedly posting concerns about Obama's birth certificate you are wasting your time. The appeal concerns the definition of a naturalized certificate and assumes the current Hawaii certificate is authentic.

Posted by: K-Los | December 5, 2008 4:32 PM

K-Los, I agree with what you are saying, but you are confusing the issue when you say "naturalized". I believe you mean "natural born". Anyone born on U.S. soil and/or to one or both U.S. citizen parents, is considered a "natural born" citizen. A naturalized citizen is one who receives his/her citizenship later in life through the naturalization process. What this case is disputing, as you point out, is the idea that "natural born" means born on U.S. soil and/or to one or both U.S. citizen parents. Donofrio is contending that that only means "native" born. He says that "natural born" means born on U.S. soil AND both parents are U.S. citizens. You are right that the birth certificate is irrelevant to this issue.

"If I were a Democrat (thank God I'm not) I would be embarrassed that the next president of the United States can't produce a copy of his own birth certificate. This does not bode well for the future of this country."

It was already produced and certified by Hawaiian officials! What is it with you people?

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha...this is pathetic!!

Obama has shown proof of live birth in Hawaii and so has the state of Hawaii, just that these characters are bias and will not believe. They are also trying to diminish his natural citizenship because when he was a small child he went to Indonesia with his mother. And other far fetched stuff. The facts are: He has a legitimate birth certificate and that he was born in Hawaii. That makes him a natural citizen regardless of his parents nationality. Second, he never dennounced his citizenship as a child and in fact a child cannot do so.

K-Los is wrong. At various times, birth to even just one American parent has been considered "natural born." It's not a cut-and-dried issue, but I would think that the true spirit of the Constitution is to be as inclusive as possible without distorting the language (for example, claiming every human is a potential American, so every human is a "natural born" American would be silly), but considering that someone who is a citizen when they are born it is reasonable for such a person to be called a "natural born" American. Since current law says that someone born to an American citizen automatically qualifies as a citizen regardless of the location of the birth, it seems perfectly rational that such a person is a "natural born" citizen. No one is disputing that Obama's mother is a citizen and was a citizen when he was born, so if "natural born" means "a citizen at birth," then it doesn't even matter if he was born in Kenya or Hawaii.

Some of us who would like this looked at are not anti-Obama, but pro-Constitution. It seems most who want this looked at hope Obama can show the proper credentials, so we can move on. I think the Supreme Court should look at this and make a decision based on the Constitution and the facts, one way or the other.

Posted by: kevin | December 5, 2008 4:44 PM

Really, so where were you the last eight years when W and Cheney were putting the constitution through a shredder every day?

You Repugs really need to get off the propaganda train and join the rest of the world in reality or you're going to be the minority party for a VERY long time to come.

Do I sense some sexism from those who argue that since his father wasn't a citizen that Obama isn't a "natural born" citizen? Obama's mother was without doubt an American citizen, Where is the controversy?

There is no question that fairness and justice should prevail. However When we should be focusing on economy, jobs, war and all the other problems we have at hand, this is a very obsurd way of wasting everyone’s time. It’s time to move on, look forward and not constantly question this guys authenticity - not that he did not go through this enough times during his campaign.

With this last bit of craziness about Obama's birth certificate we are seeing the peak of a complete psychological break down from the rightwing lunitic fringe, formally known as the Republican party.

To John:
Reread the constitution. You are a natural born citizen if you were born in the USA REGARDLESS of the citizenship of your parents. (Probably in there 'cause at the time we were a new country and many of the 'citizens' were from Europe).

You people have no idea what you are talking about! Read the Constitution!

Here's a nice link complete with photos. If any of you have doubts, here it is for you. The certificate WAS produced. This is just more wacko ranting.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

Audrey said:
"Everyone needs to understand that this is not good...for either party. If there is no proof offered and no court will require the irrefutable proof, then a lawsuit will be filed for every law Obama signs" -

This is correct. If Obama is unable to provide the vault copy of his birth certificate now this will come up again and again in the courts.

Unfortunately all we have are a few bad photos from a couple
websites that are connected to Obama in one way or another. This should be investigated by a non-political group with no strings to him.

Probably the most glaring problem with those images that have been released is the fact that all the info on the alleged documents is printed by jet-ink. In 1961 that would have been impossible - typewriters were used and they just didn't produce the kind of clear, crisp font found on those documents.

If a link works, to show an example, here is the photo from one of those Obama-friendly sites of the alleged 1961 document.

http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_3.jpg

Both of President Andrew Jackson's parents were immigrants born in Ireland. Six presidents have had at least one parent who was foreign born including Jackson.

I think Obama is not responding to this because it would encourage the continuance of all the other crackpot claims that were raised against him during the campaign. He is far too busy assembling a smart, intelligent team to tackle the many serious issues of government confronting him.

I know how to solve this problem. Lets hire the democrats from Ohio who went after Joe The Plumber's private records after he questioned obama about redistribution and how that sounded like socialism. They could get the records from Kenya, Indonesia, Hawaii, and the colleges and solve this problem..

John K.

Where are the terms "natural born citizen" and "native born citizen" distinctly and legally defined?

Obama isn't spending anything on this really. No court has decided to hear this.

The man doesn't have to prove himself again. Was the Constitution violated because all the other presidents didn't show their BC publicly?

He passed the FEC and numerous other 3 letter agencies background checks. The birthers have nothing else to claim.

I think the author Frank James misspoke here. He used "unlikely" and "won't" in this awkward way, which suggests to me, given the previous context, he may have meant to say it's safe to say it's unlikely the Supreme Court will hear the case. I'd be interested to know which it is.

"I'm told by a Supreme Court watcher that the lack of an announcement doesn't mean the court definitely won't hear Donofrio although he thinks it's safe to say its unlikely the court won't hear the case."

Might we actually have the Supreme Court determine another election?

I highly doubt Obama would have even run if there was any question of his US citizenship.

First of all, even if Obama weren't born in the US, one of his parents is a US citizen, so he is STILL a natural born citizen. Second of all, anyone with any creditibility has already reviewed the birth certificate... this is all a gimmick and Thomas is just playing along.

They should check the paper and the ink to make sure it was not forged

Um....it's not really republicans bringing the suites to SCOTUS.

One guy is a 9-11 Truther (Berg) and Donofrio's case also says that McCain isn't eligible.

Not exactly big republicans there.

hgp said...
"He needs a birth certificate and not a certificate of live birth (that tells nothing)."

A 'certificate of live birth' is the same as a 'birth certificate'. A 'birth certificate' is the same as a 'certificate of live birth'.

Some states call it the Bureau of Motor Vehicles, some call it the Department of Motor Vehicles. Same difference.

And in fact, in most states a 'certificate of live birth' is the legal title given to what the public calls a 'birth certificate'.

Arnold Schwarzenegger 2012

Why not just show the birth certificate and be done with the whole issue?

The fact that they haven't shown it is what is causing interest.

Again, if there's nothing to hide - show it.

Many posters have a flatly erroneous impression of what is required to make one a "natural born citizen" of the United States. While one born of US citizens temporarily residing abroad fits the definition, so, too, does any person born within the jurisdiction of the national government, i.e., in its territorial limits. Remember the case involving that woman, Ms. Arellano (a Mexican citizen whose son was born in the US, and was therefore a natural born citizen) who took refuge in a Chicago church to prevent being deported and separated from her son ? Same thing here. If, therefore Mr. Obama was born in Hawaii (which by 1961 was a State), the matter is settled without any need to consider the citizenship of his parents.

This is also separate from, but related to, the so-called "naturalization clause" in Section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment, which provides that all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. A "natural born citizen" meets this requirement at birth.

Re:Wayne,

I share your thoughts. Thanks for the humor and truth.

Another smoke screen! Smoke and mirrors. The dictator will take office in January regardless!

For those who want to blame the Right for this may I remind you that most of the cases have been filed by Dems. or Ind.

Also, some in the DNC leadership took this to Howard Dean in June and asked that all of the documents be review. He chose ignore us.

What is so difficult with unlocking the safe and releasing records? I have had to provide sealed copies of birth cetificates, college transcripts, eetc. etc, for several agencies. The only thing Hawaii attests to is that they have seen some document in their safe. If it isn't a big deal, just open up the safe and show the document.

By the same token, the suit before the SCOTUS seeks to remove McCain from the ballot for similar questions of parentage. The same degree of investigation need to be done with his birth documents. The SCOTUS needs to review both candidates and clearly decide what the Constitutional requirement is and whether either candidate meets the requirement.

If neither candidate is qualified, the Electoral College and the US Congress will then need to perform their constitutional duties to select a president before Jan 20. Bush cannot serve beyond that point.

To everyone who thinks this is just a Republican attack - do some research next time. McCain is named in the case as well, a his citizenship is also in question. The case was brought prior to the election but lower court judges refused to examine the evidence. Why does it matter? Because the Constitution sets forth requirements for the office of President. If those standards are ignored, the court is essentially saying the Constitution doesn't matter anymore. That is a scary place for this nation to be, no matter what your party affiliation happens to be.

This is good enough for me.
http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate

"

What is so difficult with unlocking the safe and releasing records? I have had to provide sealed copies of birth cetificates, college transcripts, eetc. etc, for several agencies. The only thing Hawaii attests to is that they have seen some document in their safe. If it isn't a big deal, just open up the safe and show the document.

By the same token, the suit before the SCOTUS seeks to remove McCain from the ballot for similar questions of parentage. The same degree of investigation need to be done with his birth documents. The SCOTUS needs to review both candidates and clearly decide what the Constitutional requirement is and whether either candidate meets the requirement.

If neither candidate is qualified, the Electoral College and the US Congress will then need to perform their constitutional duties to select a president before Jan 20. Bush cannot serve beyond that point."

Please read people. The BIRTH CERTIFICATE WAS PRODUCED A LONG TIME AGO. It was also certified by Hawaiian officials.

This is not even an issue, Obama will be our next president. As Obama will be an effective president, he has his eye on the economy, lost jobs, businesses being forced to close, the wars, workers rights, and the injured workers being denied benefits.The issues are large, and all must be addressed. The matter of Obama being a US citizen is not even an issue at this time.

"No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of the President; . . ." U.S. Const. Art. II, Section 1, Clause 4.

That is what it says, nothing more.

Before all you Obama haters get your hopes up, let me remind you that in the EXTREMELY unlikely event (probability: .00000000000000000) that the Supreme Court rules that Obama is not a natural born citizen, then the president after Jan 20 is Joe Biden, not John McCain. Ruling that Obama is not eligible to serve does NOT overturn the election results.

Besides, they already did that in 2000 and I'm sure they wouldn't want to repeat that mistake.

Okay, so you need to produce a birth certificate to get a job, a drivers license or any number of other things but this is all wrong.

Obama never produces records on anything, not his medical, college, etc.

So why should he have to do this? It's only for the Presidency.

Besides, Hawaii officials already say they have a copy of something in their files.

We just can't see what's in it. Like all of Obama's other records.

Again, folks, all any of you can get is a COPY of your birth certificate. The original copy is a sacrosanct items: most states will not part with them, as this can easily lead to identity theft.

Obama has provided as much as any of you can provide. Yes, you, too, can get a copy of your birth certificate: and it will be just as verifiable as what Obama has provided.

Ease off folks. This case is not about a birth certificate. Its about the fact that the Supreme Court has never defined what it means to be a natural born citizen. It is clear from letters written when the 14th ammendment was written that the concensus at that time meant that both parents had to be citizens. The question now is whether that concensus still holds. Only the Supreme Court can make this ruling and they have ducked this question for hundreds of years.

For all of you lefty wing nuts blaming this on the loony right, please do your research. The suit the SCOTUS is looking at was filed by a DEMOCRAT!

As a life-long Democrat, I am one of the 'We The People Foundation' who is working hard to get Obama to produce his birth certificate.

I laugh when I read posts about 'those crazy right-wing Repubs'-- when in reality, this whole issue has been led by the Dems!

FIRST: Hawaii Officials did NOT confirm that his vault copy that has a box for FOREIGN COUNTRY says that he was born in Hawaii. They have only said that the copy exists, that it is sealed, and that it is a valid copy.

SECOND: The department of Hawaiian Home Lands DHHL says that

“DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL.”

http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl

THEY DON"T EVEN USE THE COLB OBAMA SHOWS ON FIGHTTHESMEARS to validate if a person was born in HAWAII.

THIRD: Why not show it? Why have this question mark on his legitimacy as presidency with such a large amount of people in our country? Why let it persist, when he could just show it and end the discussion?

MAYBE BECAUSE:

Going on what Obama has professed himself, he was born in Hawaii. Great! However, that is kind of ridiculous as their should be valid documentation proving his assertion he was born there. I don’t believe the COLB is unless we see the vault copy, in which case I would agree with that. As part of their duty to uphold the constitution they should require that they confirm his eligibility and also look at the document. IMHO.

But Obama also has professed that his father was from Kenya. Great. Means his daddy was not a US citizen. Obama has also professed that he was a British subject at birth since his father was from Kenya. Obama is not a “natural born” citizen because his father was not a US citizen.

And yes, there is no definition of natural born citizen, yet there definitely is a distinction made in the constitution between naturalized and Natural born. It would be up to the Supreme Court to interpret the constitutional law in regards to this matter.

The lack of precedent on this issue in regards to eligibility for president, requires an interpretation of the definition of natural born, but the final say would be with the Supreme Court Justices.

If you take the grandfather clause “or a Citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of this constitution” which was put in to allow the framers to become president, you can see that their intent was only natural born citizens should be eligible. I am not sure how one could reasonably conclude differently.
There is a definite distinction being made here. Note, if they intended any “citizen” to be eligible, then they would made the phrase… “No person, except a citizen of the United States, shall be eligible to the Office of President”.

It makes absolutely no sense for Obama to NOT show his Vault copy of the long form Birth Certificate and should be a requirement.

BO is hiding things. His US passport when he was a child shows a Kenya Birth Certificate along with his mother's US Birth Certificate.
Natural Born Citizen means born within the US with a US born parent. Period.

I don't care where he's from. He has no allegiance to what America is all about. To far to the left for my liking.

No matter what you say here the left wing nut cases will beat up on ya. I hope I die soon America of the 40's and 50's is no more.

At the time of Obama's birth, Hawaii Revised Statute 338-178 allowed registration of birth in Hawaii for a child that was born OUTSIDE of Hawaii (such as..Kenya) to parents who, for a year preceding the child’s birth, claimed Hawaii as their place of residence,"
Having a certificate of live birth from Hawaii in 1961 doesn't necessarily mean you're a natural born citizen.
US law also clearly said at that time that if only one parent was a citizen, then that parent needed to be a US citizen for at least 10 years, 5 of which was AFTER the age of 16. Obama's mother was only 18yrs old when he was born so that didn't qualify him as natural born, either.

this is ridiculous, as soon as he was asked to show it he should of, if there is a question about it then prove it, that is what the rest of us real americans have to do, and yes legally are constitution says that to run for president you have to be natural born citizen which means both of your parent were citizens at the time of your birth. which we all know obama's dad was not so legally he did not even have the right to run for president. but when u get a cult type following some how the laws dont apply anymore. i was a democrat all my life untell a non american ran for office. i know if someone asked about my natural born citizenship i could prove it within one day

I don't care where he's from. He has no allegiance to what America is all about. To far to the left for my liking.

No matter what you say here the left wing nut cases will beat up on ya. I'm sure the lefties will be glad when all the true old time patriots are dead and gone. Then they can have this communist country all to themselves.

President-elect Obama does not need to release his birth certificates. The Hawaiian Health Department Director, Dr. Chiyome Fukino has ALREADY confirmed that he was born IN HAWAII!!!

Read the article below:
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20081031/BREAKING01/81031064

Why do people continue to ignore the Hawiian state officials on this matter?

I cannot wait for the day naturalized citizens can run for the white house office!!!

It will happen as by 2050...

Mark my words.

Posted by: John | December 5, 2008 4:49 PM
-----------------------------
You don't have to wait until "by 2050". It has already happened in 2008, you are here to see it and don't even realize it.

The war's OVER Republicans!

You lost again!

Go crawl back under your rocks and come back in 2012....

He has already shown proof of his certificate to factcheck.org...look in the august archive and you can get very detailed photos of it..this is getting ridiculous now

What a stupid waste of time. Aren't there enough serious issues to worry about.

And, the fact that Obama's dad was not a US citizen is irrelevant, since he was born in Hawaii, he was born into citizenship. And there is precedent for the son of an immigrant becoming president:

Five presidents ([Thomas] Jefferson, James Buchanan, Chester Arthur, Woodrow Wilson, Herbert Hoover) had just one immigrant parent each."
http://www.wikinfo.org/index.php/President_of_the_United_States_of_America

cannot wait for the day naturalized citizens can run for the white house office!!!

It will happen as by 2050...

Mark my words.

Posted by: John | December 5, 2008 4:49 PM
======================Won't happen John, Not the way the world is becoming so global and too many terrorist!!!

TheQuestion-
Why dosen't he(Obama) want to show it?
Up till now ,never heard of such a situation, especialy a President to be.

Interesting discussion. There is a lot of misunderstanding abroad (not in the manner of being born abroad!) being demonstrated here.

For example: "Both of President Andrew Jackson's parents were immigrants born in Ireland. Six presidents have had at least one parent who was foreign born including Jackson.

Posted by: sekmet | December 5, 2008 5:23 PM"

This is masterfully explained: "No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of the President; . . ." U.S. Const. Art. II, Section 1, Clause 4.

That is what it says, nothing more.

Posted by: Pat | December 5, 2008 6:21 PM

Quoting from another site that puts this in everyday terms: "The only dual-nationals who were allowed to be President were the original Founders and only their generation. This is the so-called 'Grandfather Clause.' "

Andrew Jackson was certainly of that generation. I seem to remember reading that he bore a scar which was the result of a British Army officer striking him with a sword when Andrew refused to polish the officer's boots.

It's not about the "looney right" hating Obama, or conspiracy theories, or other nonsense...it"s about upholding the Constitution; which is something that these judges, appointed to life-time positions have sworn to uphold and to protect. It is something that all Americans should desire to see upheld. Obama showed us a Certification, not a Birth Certificate. He needs to release his original Birth Cert. then we can all get behind our President Elect for the good of the Nation.

Oh beware the Ides of March. I guess that the loser republicats can't take the fact that a black man has been elected president. Very similar to the Clinton Whitewater lies. I think that the republicats will lose 50% of their remaining seats in house and the senate in the next election. Welcome them to the land of the Whigs and all the other losers in American political history.

I am amazed at the lack of understanding and knowledge on this subject evident in these comments. If you have followed this issue from the beginning you would know Obama has not proved his citizenship is that of a natural born citizen and that is what is required by our Constitution. I'm saddened there are some on here who don't think the Constitution matters anymore. Maybe they will as they see the last free nation on earth turn to socialism and then march on to communism. When all your freedoms are gone you just might wish you had cared while there was still time to do something about it.

I hope I die soon America of the 40's and 50's is no more.

Posted by: Jack Swink | December 5, 2008 7:04 PM
________________________
You mean the America with lynchings, communist witch hunts, and segregation? Oh yes, and strong robust Unions. I hope you die soon too.

Ok I understand most people who watch Sean Hannity and listen to Rush Limbaugh are not that bright. Hopefully, you can read so here goes: the Constitution of the U.S. emphatically (ohh that's a big word) states ""No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of the President; . . ."

See, no mention of overseas, Hawaii, Panama or any other place. I know you would love to tell us who they were thinking about when they wrote this so here goes: They never intended some guy with a Kenyan father to fall under that definition. Oh crap! Too bad the framers are not here to tell us. Enter the Supreme Court to truly define "natural born" citizen and a "citizen". They put this issue to rest in United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898) (what is that?) and subsequent cases.

Go read if you can. Most of you retardicans (cool new term) will never be satisfied with any outcome unless it has to do with McSame-Failing being selected as the real "citizens" qualified to assume the presidency. You know this and I know this so please spare us the BS about "he should just release it and put the matter to rest."

What really baffles me is how small-minded people like you think you are onto something that the FBI, CIA, FEC and 66,882,230 sane Americans missed. This, I must warn you is the first symptom of insanity - You see something everyone else does not and you will do everything you can to fix it. Reminds me of the guy who was convinced he had a fly on his upper lip and took a shoe it (busted lip and bleeding, he wouldn't stop till he killed the non-existent fly).

My advise is simple, call up Limbaugh, Drudge and Hannity and check yourselves into a Psychiatric Institution for 8 years. By the time you get out, Barack Hussein (ouch!) Obama would have ended his two-term presidency. That, and the fact you will be fully cured should make you eligible to express yourselves in public again. Till then, the election is over, your guy lost ....soundly...GET OVER IT!!

I was born in greece and have citizenship papers to prove it. I am a political science junkie and love the United States. I specialized in American Foreign Policy in college. I should be president of the United States. I will run for the office and when I win, Greece will become the 51st state of these United States. Greece will give up it's socialist ideals, end parliamentary government and will become part of our Democratic Republic.

Of course I am dreaming. I have read the Constitution of the United States. I understand I cannot become president and I understand that the Constitution was designed by the founding fathers to prohibit treason by an American Citizen who may not have OUR interests at heart.

I say, let the Supreme Court discuss Obama's citizenship status, present documents for or against and let the Electoral College determine the outcome after the Court's decision. Will this lead to anarchy. No, because the balance of power resides in the people and a new election will be held, even if I have to hold my nose while Pilozi assumes the presidency in the interim.

Cheers

Can you believe these 26% dead ender America haters? Dumya told America in a speech this afternoon that America is IN A RECESSION. The only thing these "people" can think about is attacking Obama, and the majority of Americans that voted for him. Man, that's the depth of hatred for America these people have.

"His US passport when he was a child shows a Kenya Birth Certificate along with his mother's US Birth Certificate."--Brian

"He needs a birth certificate and not a certificate of live birth (that tells nothing)."--hgp

"If it wasn't such a big deal then why has Obama hired 3 law firms to fight against his Hawaii documents as well as his Harvard documents."--Ernie

"the next president of the United States can't produce a copy of his own birth certificate."--jim

"In order to be a 'natural born citizen' both parents must have been a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth."--John K

"The fact that they haven't shown it is what is causing interest."--Steve

Each and every one of these quotes is based *completely* on *total* misinformation. Either naive gullibility, outright lies, or delusion. Whichever the case, I chalk it up to the viral nature of the blogosphere.

"Relying on blogs for anything other than a down-the-rabbit-hole view of the world is like trying to forecast the weather by looking in your closet." -- The Unknown Blogger

"The Internet is not so much an information superhighway as it is an information epidemic." -- Gene Spafford, seminal co-creator of the Internet

If he has nothing to hide, why hire 3 law firms to keep it sealed along with all his college records from Harvard and Occidental as well as his passport.
Sounds like someone has something to hide from the American people.

Fairy Godfather, the very plain and straightforward definition of a natural born citizen as stated in the Constitution disqualifies Obama AND MC Cain. So come down off your high horse and humble yourself enough to learn something rather than deflecting your ignorance upon those you think are beneath you.

Rumor had it that President Bush was born on the moon, that didn't stop him from becoming President !! Can't you boys and girls of the rank Republican Party find any thing better to do, than to continue to character-assassinate our President-elect ? Hiding under the guise of constitutionality, when everyone knows, it's the President Clinton strategy all over again. Let's disrespect our President, suggest that he is not an American and let the country and it's problems go to hell. You are a despicable lot, you Bush-McCain phonies. No wonder you lost the Presidential election, America is tired of your hypocrisy. You keep this nonsense up, about President-elect Obama's citizenship and the nation will suffer, mightily, not that it matters to you clowns !! You are poor excuses for American citizens, you sowers of doubt !!
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, BRING THEM HOME, ALIVE AND WHOLE. NOW.

Natural-born citizen

Who is a natural-born citizen? Who, in other words, is a citizen at birth, such that that person can be a President someday?

The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." But even this does not get specific enough. As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps.

Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"

Anyone born inside the United States
Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.
Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is eligible to run for President or Vice President. These provisions allow the children of military families to be considered natural-born, for example.

Show us a link for your accusations!

Strangely enough, McCain was scrutinized for his birth situation by Congress why not Obama? Was it a zebra stripes move? Since Hilary and Obama sponsored the #511?

Although, Denofrio states clearly that no birth document is needed to disqualify him . Obama's own admission of birth father and citizenship status at birth disqualifies him relative to the Natural Born qualification
.. According to Denofrio's case. please review Denofrio's blog Naturalborncitizen.com

If the Supreme Court does NOT take this case, you might as well RIP UP the Constitution right now. It's apparently useless anyway.

Idiots!!!

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/12/05/birth_certificate/

So many sick people, a sinking party in a seething cauldron of sick obsession with nativism! Get a life, a job or something to help the American economy! jealous? envy? what a bunch of litigious losers.

Only in America is it possible to get elected by The People and then have people throw in lawsuits based on his birth certificate. No wonder we are the laughing stock of the world. Gee people let's get real..this issue should have been put at rest BEFORE the election. You right-wingers you are sore loosers!! You are not going to take this democratic president away from us. Oh by the way ~ let's examine Mc Cain's birth certificate. The hospital he said he was born did not even exist in 1936 because it was built in 1941. McCain was born in Colon, Panama which was not in the Canal Zone. Get your facts straight!

I'm a Republican and I at least hope I'm not crazy like may here refer to us. I also hope Obama has a great presidency, just 4 years please. It's silly for him to hold back this information. Eventually there will be legal challenges in all 50 states. Get it out and put an end to this junk. The nation has important problems for Mr. Obama to concentrate on. This needs to be put to bed.

Martin Van Buren, born in 1782, was the first native born POTUS.

Lose the Jackson Irish bs.

Just be an "honest" man and show us the "Vault Copy" of your birth certificate. Prove to America that you will uphold the Constitution of the United States....not abuse it.

No matter what the courts decide...the truth about your past Barry will come out!!

@ Eric

I posted a response to your question as well as clarify all the bad info floating around this comment thread but the admins won't approve it for some reason.

Basically though, that is what the lawsuit is all about. What is a "natural born citizen." It is not explicitly spelled out which is why there is this gray area.

For all the idiots here commenting, both democrats and republicans, before commenting any further why don't you guys go read the filing? I love all these people who think they are experts on this subject and obviously haven't read the case filing. The case is called Donofrio v. Wells. The document is called a SCOTUS Stay Application and can be found on Donofrio's website which is a wordpress blog called Natural Born Citizen.

Reading the daily kos, huffington, factcheck.org (which is owned by the annenberg foundation/challenge which Obama was the founding chairmen and President), or any random blog (liberal or conservative) is obviously not sufficient to make an informed opinion based on your comments.

As far as the whether the Supreme Court will hear this case, it probably won't happen. They didn't announce yes or no today and the full order list won't be out until Monday. The fact that they didn't announce it today though points to them deciding to not take the case.

Hey Barry Dunham...

If you read my whole post I said that is what the whole case is about, whether or not a "natural born citizen" means one, both, or none of your parents needed to be citizens of the United States when you were born.

Don't lecture me when you obviously haven't even read the case filing.

The current law is irrelevant; what governs Obama's "natural born" status is the law as it existed at the time of his birth in 1961. Trust me on this.

As of 1961, if Obama was born outside the U.S. to a Kenyan father and U.S. citizen mother, the law was that he would qualify as a natural born U.S. citizen if, BUT ONLY IF, his U.S. citizen parent had lived in the U.S. for at least five years after reaching 14 yrs. of age.

That would not have been possible as Obama's mother was only 18 when he was born. Thus, if born outside the US, Obama was NOT natural born by law, and is Constitutionally eligible, not that many people give a shit about the Constitution.

Also, the computer-transcript "Certificate of Live Birth" is not good proof. I have adopted overseas and applied for dual (Italian) citizenship. Neither government wanted to see my birth state's equivalent of what Obama has shown; both demanded a certified copy of the "long form," or "vault copy" record (typically filled out by hand or with a typewriter, with handwritten signatures by the attending doctor, etc.)

If Obama truly was born in Hawai'i, he should produce his long-form, vault copy birth certificate. That is the best documentary evidence, and its absence justly raises suspicion.

P.S. I'm a Democrat, and despise Bush, McCain, Mitt Romney, and pretty much all of them. I still think if Obama doesn't qualify under the Constitution, he should not be President.

I didn't want McInsane to be president anymore than YoMama, but at least McInsane fulfilled the requirements and provided the correct proof of his citizenship. YoMama should do the same and quit stalling. He could end this all in a matter of minutes.

This will not go through, there will a HUGE disaster that will wipe all this off the news.....bye bye America, enjoy your new leader, it doesn't matter if he's black, white, yellow, brown or purple, he is still a man and men cannot be trusted.

Two things that make this intriguing for me are:

First, from the Vital Records section of Hawaii's website comes this:

Who is Eligible to Apply for an Amended Certificate of Birth?

As provided by law (HRS §§338-17.7, 338-20.5), the following persons may apply for an amended certificate of birth:

* A person born in the State of Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health and

1. has become legally adopted, or
2. has undergone a sex change operation, or
3. a legal determination of the nonexistence of a parent and child relationship for a person identified as a parent on the birth certificate on file has been made, or
4. previously recorded information in relation to the person’s surname and/or the father’s personal particulars has been altered pursuant to law.

* A person born in a foreign country who has been legally adopted in the State of Hawaii.

SO, the first bullet point lists four situations where you can have your Hawaiian birth certificate reissued--and the second bullet point allows you to get a birth certificate issued even if you were not born there.

And then there is this, which I cannot vouch for exactly but which I have seen more than once:

If both parents are citizens , the child is, if born on American soil. If only the mother is a citizen and the child is born on foreign soil, the child is not automatically a citizen. If Obama was born in Kenya, he would not be a citizen because his mother would have had to live here for at least 5 years after the age of 16.

+++++++++++++

I am not remotely "right wing" and am impressed by, and support, Barack. I want this cleared up, and do not want Obama dodging the issue via legal maneuvering.

The day this came up, in 5 minutes, I located my own birth record, a copy of the "actual one" signed by the doctor 60+ years ago. The photocopy is notarized and attached to it is a signed statement by the records administrator saying that it is an exact and complete photocopy of the original. Were I running for president with this question in the air, that document would have been shown in USToday the next morning. Why is this so touchy and difficult for Obama? Makes no sense, and until it does or is cleared up, I remain interested.

Does any actually KNOW anything before they post? There is no moral equivalent of the rumor of Obama being born in Keyna and John McCain born to a military family stationed in Panama. Military bases are native US soil AND if the US citizen parent is over 18 and the baby is born outside the US, they are "born" in the US but can hold dual citizenship. If a Martian mother gave birth on US soil then the child is BORN in the US and can become president - it doesn't matter where the parents are from - ever hear of "anchor babies"?????
Hawaii has a record of live birth which is not a birth certificate and anyone who has continously lived in Hawaii can register the live birth in Hawaii. It doesn't mean that the baby was actually born there. The director of public records in Hawaii said Obama's certificate of live birth was authentic - that is true but doesn't mean Obama was BORN in Hawaii - just that the registration certificate recorded that the mother registered the birth was done. What hospital was Obama born? Who was the doctor/midwife? What is the date and time of birth? That is on a BIRTH CERTIFICATE. Wouldn't it be GREAT to make the extremist making a big deal about Obama being born in Kenya look like fools by showing for public display his birth certificate - who would believe ANY RANT they have after Obama showed them?????? It is obvious that Obama would have the last laugh at them UNLESS HE REALLY WAS BORN IN KENYA and wants to pretend America does not care.

They will not bother even looking at this case. Because ,
1) if it is found Obama is illegal and he has to step down as president there would be another civil war right here in the USA because all the blacks would riot all over the USA plus all the white trash that voted for him would riot.

Thats the one main reason the Supreme court will not even look at the birth certificate case !

So to keep the peace and allow and illegal to be president and violate our constitution is better ! ITS DAMN WRONG ! But in the eyes of the judges and the government its best !

What a sad country we are turning out to be !

Since Congress passes laws to execute the powers vested by the constitution, the US Code may help define who is a natural born citizen:

US Code
TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER III > Part I > § 1401

§ 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth
The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;

That seems simple enough, but you say, well it was in Hawaii? This may help:

TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER III > Part I > § 1405

§ 1405. Persons born in Hawaii
A person born in Hawaii on or after August 12, 1898, and before April 30, 1900, is declared to be a citizen of the United States as of April 30, 1900. A person born in Hawaii on or after April 30, 1900, is a citizen of the United States at birth. A person who was a citizen of the Republic of Hawaii on August 12, 1898, is declared to be a citizen of the United States as of April 30, 1900.
I am rather certain 1961 is on or after April 30, 1900 which would make it Citizen at Birth.

all of you supposed "pro-constitution" whiners should be busy taking issue with the sitting president who has shredded that document and all it stands for during the last 8 years. Get real.

I think if obama was a white
guy we wouldn't be having
this debate . Mccain is not
natural born citizen so he
can't be president also , the
people have spoken about
who they want be president,
but hate is trying to rear it's
ugly head.

9/11 Ringleaders Execute Brilliant
German Spy Plot: Trick OBAMA
http://home.att.net/~south.tower/911TrickObama1.htm

I found it insulting to question Mr. Obama citizenship because he has won the election to serve the country he loves like any other citizen, from the time of his birth. I will not say that those who are doing it are racist or even sore losers, but I will just say it is a very sad situation. The American people; at least most gave four more years to Mr. Bush without problem even after we had seen he was incompetent, and to be questioning this guy’s citizenship, it’s just unbelievable. Besides the Native Americans, there are no true citizens of America.
We stole the land, killed its occupants, and now we’re making such a silly claims. I found it to be disrespectful to Mr. Obama, and to most of the Americans who have voted for him. I’m guessing if Mr. McCain had won the election we wouldn’t be having this conversation, when in reality he wasn’t born on the USA soil. I cannot help but feel nausea, I cannot help but feel sorry for the gentleman who have chosen to serve his country, who have chosen to go through the longest job interview in the world to serve people who hates him just because.... I think with his skills he could have easily chosen to join corporate America and made enough money to jet around the world instead of having to put with sycophants like those questioning his right to be, his right to exist. I’m sorry to be so out of sort, it’s because I’m sick to my stomach.
I think whoever would choose public service over making money when they could easily make it in the USA, is someone very special, very, and very special or just plain sick in the mind. Honestly how much will this man put up with just to serve his country, he’s a Muslim, he’s a terrorist, and he’s every name under the sun.
I’m calling on everyone to understand the fact that most of the American voters who had a chance to interview this guy through the media, through the internet, and throughout the 22 months prior to the election have voted for him. So would you people for once listen to the majority of the American people, they’ve spoken, and they said they wanted this man to be president. So let’s give the man a chance to tackle the real problem we’re facing, and hopefully under his administration we’ll solve some of our most pressing issues.

Thomas Jefferson
James Buchanan
Chester Arthur
Woodrow Wilson
Herbert Hoover

ALL of these were not natural-born citizens because ONE of their parents was not born in the United States (Arthur was accused of being born in Canada, but it was never proven; did he have to submit an actual birth certificate?).

Because the DNC didn't bother to place a candidate on the ballot that could legally be potus, they lose by default. When the BC says that the mother, sire, and child are born in the U.S.A., AND the child is born in U.S. military facilities, the child is a natural born citizen like most military babies. If the mom had the baby born in some foreign country instead of on military property, the baby is just a U.S.A. citizen like a very few of us as most of us are natural born citizens.

Obama is the next 911; a fascist coup under left cover. The Obot kool aid drinkers are being led by one of the most corrupt confidence men in history.

http://www.obamacrimes.com/

I went to get a drivers license renewed after it exspired.I couldn't believe that they wouldn't give me one because I didn't have my birth certificate.I told them to call my mother and she would certify my birth..They still woudn't believe.Truthfully I think there is some kind of dirty business going on here.They say it's the law.I say so what it's just a piece of paper and if Obama can get elected and sit as president thaen surely I can get a drivers license.Can't believe the nerve the DMV has.

I will teach my son (he's 2) that in only in America can you be a coke head, hang with terrorist and felons, be a racist, enjoy soicalism, and be a complete fraud and still be President. Way to go America. WAKE UP. . .

Debbie, you may want to post that part of the Constitution with the straightforward definition of natural born citizen.

I'd be interested in seeing it.

If I have to show a birth certificate to get a drivers license why doesn't Obama have to show his to be President? And I am not a Republican!

Every blog keeps stating You Repubican need to grow up.

The First Lawsuit was filed by a DEMOCRAT Philip J. Berg the former Deputy Attorney General of Philadelphia. Alan Keyes (a constitutional Independent presidential candidate) has a lawsuit against Obama and the Electorial College of California (of one who as been found out to be actually DEAD for over a year, but still managed to vote for OBAMA). Mr. Donofrio is also an Independant and NOT affiliated with the Republican party. How is this a REPUBLICAN issue. This case is not about the Birth Certificate. It assumes Barack Hussein Obama II (aka Barry Soetoro, Barry Obama, Barack Soetoro, Barry Durham, Barack Durham (enough aliases for you?)) was born in Hawaii. His own fight the smears webste is listing him as "Native Born", not "Natural Born" as the Constitution says. His Mother was 18 at the time of his birth. In 1961, she was considered a MINOR and thus unable to confer her US Citizenship on her child. Therefore, he got his Father's British Citizenship due to Kenya being a British Colony following the British Nationality Act of 1948. The Constitution does not want someone of Dual Citizenship to be the President of this Country.

John McCain's Citizenship is also in question in this Lawsuit for you Republican Haters here. It states that he was not born on American Soil due to him being born in Colon, Panama, and the fact that he has a Panamanian Birth Certificate and a Certificate of Naturalization. That makes him a "Naturalized Citizen" not a "Natuaral Born" Citizen.

The Third Name on the List is Roger Colero He was born in Nicuraugua and is not even an American Citizen. If any of the candidates were properly vetted by the Secretary of State as the LAW dictates, how did these 3 wind up on a ballot to be President of the United States.

That is what this Lawsuit is about. This has nothing to do with his Birth Certificate or his Certificate of Live Birth.

And there is also the BIRTH ANNOUCEMENTS in both Hawaii newspapers from August of 1961 that report the birth of Obama. These were placed by the Hawaii Department of VITAL STATISTICS. This is a gross abuse by the whack job right of our courts. They remind me of NAZI's. They just keep repeating lies over and over hoping that people believe them. OBAMA HAS PRODUCED A BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

There are people wondering how conservatives could do this Obama. You're kidding, right? The same people that aligned Mike Dukakis with Willie Horton? The same people that swiftboated John Kerry? These people are beneath contempt and any dirty trick will do to get their way. They are not even smart enough that their right-wing idiocy might have energized enough people to get Obama elected against a basically decent war hero, John McCain. But they blame McCain for that..

I can not believe this story was even covered at all. A fraction of the people in this country honestly believe that the elections board in whatever state Obama filed to run for president would miss something as obvious as that. I also can't believe that the trib would even give these people filing this lawsuit even a moment's thought. This is such a non-story and the only outlets covering this to any degree are all Tribune properties. The Trib already admitted they were paid to print the advert and this story generated more posts than anything else in the last few days. Is this a case of the Trib making the news rather than reporting the news? No other meaningful news organization covered this can this please go away? The US supreme court shouldn't even be looking at this. Shame on Clarence Thomas for even wasting the courts time with this nonsense brought on by an admitted tax cheat

In very simple terms:

(citizen+citizen)/born in U.S.= natural born

(citizen+citizen)/born outside of U.S.=natural born

(citizen+non-citizen)/born in the U.S.= natural born

(citizen+non-citizen)/born outside U.S.= ?-subject to law in effect at time of birth

Please, everyone... Break thru the left-right, Dem-Rep paradigm and realize that the Constitution is the foundation of everything we all hold dear. It is what guarantees the freedom we have to engage in this debate in a public forum and to have the individual opinions that drive it.The question that really is being asked here is not Obama's status, but if the Constitution even matters anymore. It has been trampled, stained, crumpled and scorched, but it still holds us all together and has served as the Supreme Law of the Land for all these years. Once the Constitution doesn't matter to those in power, the only result will be total and complete tyranny the like of which has not been seen here in over 230 years.
If Obama's status is proven to be Constitutional, then he should be President. The crisis that will ensue should he attempt to wield power without answering the very people he wants to lead is too terrible to contemplate.

John McCains citizenship was questioned and varified. Guess who was one of the people to verify it.......Mr. obama. He knows how the whole process works which means he knows how to manipulate it. Even the most diehard obama supporter has to ask themselves......"why doesn't he just provide the doccumnetation and end this?" McCain resolved this very same issue immediately. I'm a Democrat by the way..... but I'm an American foremost and I want this resolved cuz' it will never, ever, ever go away. I will never recognize him as the president of the United States should he be elected without proving himself.

The Republicans & the Democrats are the same; both ran by the elite families of the world.

It would make no difference if Obama or McCain were in office, the outcome would be identical. They will raise taxes and keep the people in slavery.

The men in women in government today worship MONEY. They violate he Constitution and our God given rights. The make a mockery out of God's laws.

Last time SCOTUS was involved in a presidential race, they propelled George Bush into the Whte House. That's reason enough to ignore this
right-wing farce.

for those of you that keep putting this on republicans, please look up Philip Berg's party. You will then see he is a democrat, who has also made the site www.obamacrimes.com.

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

It is a FACT, with the exception of Chester Arthur, every President - that wasn’t made eligible to POTUS under the Article 2, Section 1 grandfather clause - was born on United States soil to parents who were both United States citizens.

Even IF Obama produces proof that he was born in the United States, according to Leo Donofrio’s case, he is STILL INELIGIBLE because he was a British Citizen at birth.
This is already an established FACT. Obama held Kenyan Citizenship from birth to the age of 21.
Obama was ineligible to run for President the second he was born, regardless of where he was born because his father was British.
The framers of Constitution of the United States did NOT want somebody with dual citizenship to be President, unless they were alive during the signing of the Constitution.
This is clear constitutional interpretation. Obama was NOT alive then.
Donofrio’s case will be in conference at the Supreme Court on December 5th.
The question is, “Will the Justices interpret the Constitution correctly the way the Framers had intended?”

I am not a 'Repuglican' but I am a US Citizen born in Iowa, who thinks Obama also is a US Citizen, so I don't
see why he doesn't release his long
form certificate of Hawaiian live birth
unless this is just some purposeful distraction to be resolved in the future in Obama's favor, thereby
falsely 'discrediting' ALL persons
suspicious of Him. Perhaps, there is
something far more serious, such as
a failure to register for the Selective
Service, A Felony, which could be the
real item, with the Birth Issue now
drawing away attention and energy
of non-true-believer - ie, a strawman?
Soon, he'll have expert forgers of the
CIA under command, and we can
forget ever getting the 'low-down' on
any issue about THE GREAT MAN?

I smell another right-wing coup attempt. The Supreme Court certainly cooperated and enabled the one back in 2000, stealing the White House and installing the Worst. President. Ever. So who would doubt they would pull yet another coup d'etat?

JOHN E:

One of the lawsuits is being filed by a DEMOCRAT !! Dumba$$

If there was a 0.000001% probability of any truth to Obama not being a citizen Hillary would have been all over it!

Get a life folks. Obama is a citizen and will be president on Jan20th. And he'll have the job for 8 years.

I can't believe that people are this STUPID. Obama was issued a passport years ago. Any idiot knows that in order to get a passport you need to provide a birth certificate. The information is also checked against the hospital and county records! Oh, also, the Hawaiian officials have already declared the birth certificate is real. The supreme court does not decide facts. They resolve legal issues. They are not triers of fact. They resolve legal issues. They do not super impose their judjement in place of other lower courts on factual issues. They resolve legal issues. Is there anything STUPID people don't yet understand?

My advise is simple, call up Limbaugh, Drudge and Hannity and check yourselves into a Psychiatric Institution for 8 years. By the time you get out, Barack Hussein (ouch!) Obama would have ended his two-term presidency. That, and the fact you will be fully cured should make you eligible to express yourselves in public again. Till then, the election is over, your guy lost ....soundly...GET OVER IT!!

Posted by: Fairy Godfather | December 5, 2008 8:05 PM

lllllllllllllllllllllllllll
Fairy Godfather: I guess you believe you are the final word on this subject. Did it ever occur to you that Obama has managed to slip through the cracks of our Constitution? None of this probably would have surfaced if Obama hadn't written his two books. He has managed to leave a lot of information OUT of his books and left a lot of information in them, both of which bring up questions. Unfortunately, no one thought to look a little further into Obama being born to a U. S. citizen and a Kenyan citizen. None of the people who let this slide by would dare admit they may have made a mistake by not investigating a little further. Therefore, Obama has managed to slip through the cracks of our Constitution. So, you GET OVER IT!! This has nothing to do with McCain losing. It has everything to do with Obama winning something that he may not be eligible for. Also, do you believe that Obama's Kenyan grandmother lied when she said she was in the room in Kenya when Obama was born? Have you ever heard Obama challenge his grandmother for saying that? His silence was deafening. You need to get your thinking cap on and try to connect the obvious dots that Obama is hiding not only his birth details but something else that we don't know about yet.

Upon inauguration, Obama will swear an oath to uphold the U.S. Constitution against enemies both foreign and domestic. He now must abide by the strictures of the U.S. Constitution before getting to the point of inauguration or his Administration will be seen as "null and void" by many...Obama should put this issue to rest by proving his natural born status and proving he is not a British subject under dual authority.

I have my "original birth certificate"., signed in ink by the obstetrician and Chicago Commissioner of Health. It is yellow with age, has been folded many times, and is held together with tape.

I have used it to get a passport; establish my social security account; and file for Medicare.

Clerks kind of chuckle when they see it: they're used to the "ceritified copies", which are generated by computer in the office of the County Clerk, from an online database, which was converted to electronic storage years ago; and then printed out and squished with an 'Official Seal'.

Questioning McCain and Obama's citizenship totally misses the point of the Framers' intent. As someone up there^ pointed out, they were concerned that stray loyalists to the Crown or other foreign powers not be eligible for the presidency.

In addition, given the zeal of so many during this two-plus year election process, do you really think that the political opponents of either candidate would not have been trumpeting their ineligibility from the housetops if this were really the case?

Finally, the release and format of birth certificates is controlled at the state level. If we want to have a national standard and databank, then that's what we need to consider. But bear in mind that many of the 'doubters' are the same people who defer to states' rights in many other areas, and are wary of most other attempts to 'federalize' the legal standards for marriage, abortion, unemployment compensation, Medicaid, and on and on.

If we want to debate the degree to which the Constitution has been ignored, stretched, over-ridden, contorted, and interpreted over the last two hundred years, by all means let's start now. It's a fertile field. But the birth status of John McCain and Barack Obama is hardly the most problematic issue demanding examination.

Well, isn't this rich. The nay sayers of this Supreme Court Case are so desperate to believe that Obama's published Birth Certificate is authentic, it drives them crazy that anyone would dare question his citizenship. The angrier they get the funnier it will be when and if SCOTUS actually hears arguments on the issue, and I don't think the tears of laughter that will be running down my face will ever stop if they find the Socialist inelegable to be POTUS.
And another thing, the Almighty without question has a great sense of humor- Obama the 0 insults Clarence Thomas the legal genius and finds himself in his crosshairs.
Keep it up ladies and gentlemen - the fun has just begun.

Get a life

When the U.S. Government is subverted at the very top by a President who is not really a citizen and is really the agent of foreign government, because no one checked the dude's birth certificate, then you Americans will get what you deserve.

Vlad Putin had to show his birth Certificate at some time to eventually become Russia's leader..

I guess if he runs for the US President's job he wouldn't have to.

As a foreigner, I am laughing as America sets itself up to be destroyed during the Obama years.

MAN ! OBAMA PRESIDENT ELECT JAN 20.2009 I KNOW THAT YOU PEOPLE CAN'T EVEN THINK OR GET OVER THAT THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA WILL HAVE THE FIRST BLACK MAN AND FIRST LADY ALSO THOSE DARLING CUTE LITTLE GIRLS IN THE WHITE HOUSE. I CAN TELL YOU MILLIONS AND MILLIONS EVEN OVER SEAS THE WHOLE EARTH ARE EXCITED . WOW! WHAT A BRILLANT MAN TO HAVE AN EDUCATED PRESIDENT WHO IS AN GOD FEARING PERSON . ALL OUR PRAYS ARE WITH OBAMA THE PRESIDENT ELECTED AND HIS COUNTRY AMERICA .THE BEST THING THAT HAS HAPPEN IN YEARS.

You pathetic Republicans need to at least get your facts straight. He already released a photocopy of his birth certificate. Both the hospital as well as government officials who have access to the files have all said that he was born in Honolulu.

GET OVER IT. YOU LOST!!!!

What is so hard about BO just showing it? How about his other records like school and selective service? There is something wrong here

Anyone who says McCain is not a naturalized citizen because he was born on foreign soil is a complete idiot. My grandfather was stationed in Japan during WWII, and while there, my aunt was born. She's an AMERICAN citizen, not JAPANESE. When you are born outside the US because your parent(s) are serving the country, you are still considered a naturalized American citizen. I didn't even vote for McCain, but I just think the people who are questioning his citizenship are total morons.

This is not about "the Constitution." This is about a gang of fringe paranoid schizophrenics and racist nutjobs who can't accept the fact that a black man might be the next President. So they concoct new theories about what a "natural born citizen" means - nobody honestly thinks it has anything to do with the parents' citizenship status or else Andrew Jackson would have been barred from the Presidency - and Jackson wasn't black so no need to worry there...

This lawsuit has nothing to do with Obama's birth certificate. It has to do with illiterate fringe morons who like to file frivolous lawsuits to get in the news.

Each and every person making these comments are indeed ignorant and forge one important fact.....several of Obama's own family in Africa have stated on a number of occassions....oh yes, even provided affidavits for the suit files by a Democrat that Obama was indeed born in Kenya. This birth was registered in Hawaii when his mother left Kenya and arrived inHawaii after he was already born. If Obama has a real Birth Certificate.......let him show it! All of this would be over...except that it would show his family are a bunch if liars!

I think that President Andrew Jackson's parents were BOTH born overseas and both had come to the colonies just a year or two before he was born.

Seems this sets enough precedent to shut the looney right up.

Besides that, our next President's birth certificate WAS produced AND VERIFIED by the government of the State of Hawaii. I think it ends this mess.

Get the tin-foil off your heads and go back to looking for Elvis or UFOs or whatever other crackpot theories you are after. Loons.

This comment is directed to those capable of analytical thought.Let's assume that a monumental fraud had been perpetrated on the greatest country in the world, and the perpetrators had for years concealed all evidence of this fraud, obscuring documents, inflicting oppressive arrests on witnesses to illegal and immoral behavior, etc. Would it be prudent to give licence to such an individual, providing tacit acceptance to this type of fraudulent behavior, inviting further and even more audacious occurences of such lawlessness?
Until we begin holding these establishment-approved miscreants accountable to every jot and tittle of our law, we will continue to be afflicted with leaders who are all too ready and willing to abuse us and our Constitution, our defining document. Any individual pretending to the office of president must order his or her life in such a way that they are beyond reproach. If there's a bunch of stuff that you feel the need to conceal, do us all a favor: Don't waste our time and money by lusting after the power conferred to the POTUS, or any other powerful political office. If Mr. Obama were forthcoming about his genesis he would not be suspected of this great fraud.
So those who are willing victims of this charlatan, should perhaps go back to sleep and spare those of us who would defend our republic from usurpers their absurd apologies for the behavior of Mr. Obama and his minions. Their blather is incapable of persuading those of us who know the truth to abandon our principles, something I don't expect them to understand.
If we allow an exception to the rule of law in order to facilitate a personal agenda (truth be told, the agenda of the NWO,) we give the nod to the criminals to escalate their insistence on further exceptions. This principle has been demonstrated sufficiently to prove itself as a truism. Do we invite further corruption of our country? Not I.

It’s not just the birth certificate, but that’s the only question that can be asked in a court of law. For example, how did Obama get to Pakistan when US citizens couldn’t go there on a US passport? But it’s not just Obama that’s a problem, it’s the entire election system. How can Roger Calero get on the ballots of 5 states? He didn’t even hide his birth certificate. How can non-citizens get on any ballot? How can we allow partisan supporters to accompany invalids and possibly incompetent individuals into the voting booth? How can we tolerate “Mickey Mouse” donations to an election? We cannot survive corruption in the electoral process. The Court must act. We expect that it will not out of fear. Fear of rioting in the inner cities.

Pretty simple to me. If you are legit... prove it. Would cost you nothing. If you have something to hide, hide behind legal bullshit costing tens of thousands of dollars in court.

Obama simply can't prove it. Period. Or he would do so.

Conclusion... where there is smoke there is fire.

I have read carefully but no one has mentioned this: in almost all legal cases- including this one- the burden is on the petitioner, not the candidate. Thus, Donofrio would have to prove the Obama was not born in the United States. The only real way to do that is to prove that Obama was born somewhere not in the US, and I have heard of no meaningful evidence like that. Supposedly Donofrio is pinning his hopes on a scratchy, partially-translated audio recording of what Donofrio claims is Obama's paternal grandmother saying Barack was born in Kenya. Incidentally, Presidents Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, and Adams (the second) were not born in the United States. They were born in England.

I think the Supreme Court is the wrong place to go and Hawaii seems to have already decided that he's legit. I think you guys just have a problem with an African American as pres. The republicans have been voted out for a very good reason...they really screwed up big time. A lot of you guys seem to be extremely angry and that in itself is satisfying. Now we can get on with the way the country should be run. Pro-Choice, get the troops out of Iraq and into Afghanistan where they should have been all along, gay rights, stem cell research, regulation of the financial system, repair our image around the world, strengthening the separation of church and state, and a hundred other things that that Republican moron we've had to deal with the last eight years should have been doing

It cannot be overstated how serious this issue is concerning Obama's citizenship, or lack of (a.k.a., "Obamagate"). Should the Supreme Court somehow decide not to hear this case, the issue will not go away! Indeed, should this happen, it's speculated (predicted?) Obama will be assassinated before his inaugural. It's further speculated that his assassin will not be a lone, crazed killer (think L.H.O.), or a KKK or Aryan Nation member, but a member of his inner circle such as a Secret Service employee or, more likely, Obama's will be assassinated during a quasi-legal putsch planned by the Joint Chiefs of Staff (think "Seven Days in May" and this time there will be no Kirk Douglas character to save Obama).

Should this chain of events happen, I think it will be good for restoring the Constitution. After all, does anyone, including Obama's most "Obamagastic" supporter, really think that Obama is above the Constitution, which is the "Law of the Land"?

Path is set for Hillary to take the White House Jan 20 2009.

Nobody is attacking Obama.
We only want to know who's gonna be ruling this country.
So far we don't know nothing about the man. All I know is that he is born in Kenya from a Kenian father and an American mother. He came here with an Indonisian passport that he also refuse to submit and you wonder why we are suspicous of him. Wake up America and smell the odacity. .

Read this:

www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

and this:

www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/obama/chi-obama-ad-03-dec03,0,3124041.story

Nothing is hidden...get over it, he won.

" If this circumstance places his citizenship into question, what about the millions of others, myself included, who were born on US soil to one parent who was a citizen and one who was not?"

You're a citizen but not a natural born citizen. You can't be president.

*****
Posted by: Fairy Godfather | December 5, 2008 8:05 PM
.
Dear Fairy Godfather,
.
You seem to be chasing your tail. Anyone born in Hawaii after it became a State is presumably a Natural Born Citizen within the meaning of Article II, Section 1 of the U.S. Constitution unless that person’s parents were either consular officers of a foreign power or aliens in a territory under hostile occupation by a foreign power - in which case they were not, when born, subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. We all know that Obama’s parents weren’t consular officers of a foreign country, and we also know that Hawaii wasn’t under foreign occupation at the time Obama was born. Thus, the only question is whether Obama was born within the U.S. If he was born within the territorial boundaries of Hawaii (as claimed), any State, or on an American ship or vessel on the high seas or airborne, he is a Natural Born Citizen. If not, then he is, at best, a naturalized alien.
.
It is, therefore, inexplicable for you to suggest that the “Natural Born Citizen” phrase was meant to exclude someone born in Hawaii after its statehood, or anyone else simply because their father was Kenyan. Neither is true. In fact, the case of United States v. Wong Kim Ark - which YOU cited - held that children born within the U.S. are natural born citizens even if their parents are foreign nationals, except in the two circumstances mentioned above.
.
If you meant to portray the foregoing misunderstanding of the Wong Kim Ark case as that of Republicans as opposed to your own, your language failed to convey that idea. If you think Republicans are incapable of understanding the rule in Wong Kim Ark simply because of their political affiliation, then you are nothing but an arrogant blow hard. I am a Republican; I am an active member of the California State Bar, the District Court for the Northern District of California, and the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeal; and I was admitted in 1984. I have probably read (and understood) the Wong Kim Ark decision many more times than you have. Indeed, from your discussion of the case (above), you don’t appear to understand it at all.
.
If you think Republican generally warm their hearts over the idea that Obama will be ousted by this or any other lawsuit, think again. Frivolous lawsuits do not warm the heart, and I have never thought of these lawsuits as anything other than frivolous. A single piece of paper commonly referred to as a birth certificate would conclusively end the matter - in the absence of strong proof that it was procured by fraud. Unlike some, I have no doubt that he was born in Hawaii or that he could produce a valid birth certificate. In addition, I don’t cherish the idea of having a President who is not the choice of the People of the United States. Having been duly elected President, Obama WILL be our 44th President. Only time will tell if he is to be a blessing or a curse.

Well, I believe the Electoral College meets on December 15, so maybe the Supreme Court will just sit on the case until then, to see if the EC upholds the will of the American people. If it fails to do so, then maybe the Supreme Court will pick it up, so that a completely bogus "Constitutional crisis" can be created, and George W. Bush will be "forced" to promote himself to "Dictator-in Chief" and declare martial law in order to "control" the masses. It certainly wouldn't be the first time the Supreme Court has been used to do this.

I've also heard Bush mention Iran today (first time in a while). If we throw in an unprovoked (and unannounced) war against them by Bush (or a false flag terror attack on America blamed on Iran leading to that war) into the mix, and we're all pretty much screwed. Either way, I know that Bush can do a lot more damage before he leaves -- if he leaves.

This is just the beginning of the crap storm that the wingnuts are brewing for the next 8 yrs.

Better get used to it.

What a laugh you Americans are.
You are so devoid of talent you need to elect a British President. Good luck with him. I hope he turns out better than Tony Blair but I wouldn't count on it.
When you cannot even find a true blue up and down natural born citizen to elect it confirms the low opinion the rest of the planet has of you and your nation.
Quote 'The Relevant Obama Admission
By NaturalBornCitizen

At Barack Obama’s web site, the following admission:

"FactCheck.org Clarifies Barack’s Citizenship

'When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children…' "

Read that last line again.

"That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children…"

That’s an admission that Great Britain "governed the status" of Barack Obama, Jr., and Obama has chosen to highlight this on his own volition.

And this leads to the relevant question:

HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN’S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN?

A natural born citizen’s status should only be governed by the United States. This is the core issue before the Supreme Court of the United States.'

Where there is smoke there is fire. Just show us the notarized copy of the Birth certificate Barky. Go Ralph Nader. Go back to Kenya if you cant Barky and stir up some more trouble there, we have enough of our own without a Kenyan, Canadian, or wherever you were born trying to usurp the throne.

Some of the negative comments in here show the ignorance of people in politics. Without even understanding the case people are making comments. So let's clear a few things up. The Donofrio case is NOT about a birth certificate. Donofrio accepts that Obama was born in Hawaii and doesn't dispute it (and the birth certificate is real and has been produced no matter what's being said anyway). The Donofrio case alleges that Obama is not a "Natural Born" citizen because his father was a British subject at the time of Obama's birth (in Hawaii). His contention is that the founding fathers didn't want British subjects becoming elected as America's leader so they excluded themselves with the phrase "Natural Born citizen" and interprets "Natural Born citizen" as someone who's parents were both American citizens and being born on American soil with American citizenship only. However, the constitution does not define what "natural born" means and only mentions the term one time. Sorry to say this case really isn't going anywhere and even if it did than it would've also excluded John McCain from becoming president. If you're still believing Obama's birth certificate hasn't been verified to be true then quit gettin' your news from politically slanted blogs. If you believe in the Donofrio case having legs then you must also concede the fact that Obama was born in Hawaii as Donofrio does. Can't have it both ways.

Not to mention the Supreme Court did not grant cert in this case and it will not be heard by the Supreme Court anyway. Now can we get back to figuring out how we can all make our mortgage payments and keep our jobs after the last eight years of fumbles and failure. Obama's our president and it's the best thing that could've ever happened to our country.

The issues and facts are very clear. Obama's place of birth is in question because 1) he has not produced a vault birth certificate and 2) his grandmother consistently has said she was present at his birth in Kenya. On video she states he was born in the village. His half-siblings agreed with his grandmother until they realized the significance. According his grandmother's account, Mr. Obama's mother was not allowed on an airplane because she was too close to her due date. She had the baby in Kenya, returned to the United States and filed a Certification of Live Birth. A clumsily forged copy of a COLB has been posted online. All he has had to do is show the vault birth certificate. He fights against doing so in court. What is the logical conclusion to draw from these facts? Assuming he is a rational and of a sound mind, he risks everything because he does not have a birth certificate. He should have been required to make the proof before he could register. But he is undoubtedly the only candidate whose place of birth was not established. What a mess!

www.obamacrimes.com
4 the education of all the ignorant on this board.
The Constitution doesn't mention "standing". It was invented by those thwarting it.

What is Obama hiding!

He should produce all documents requested in the
case & which public is now entitled to see.

His long "vault" birth certificate.

His passports, including the passport used for the 1981 Indonesian/Pakistan trip.

His COMPLETE medical records, not merely a one page
summary.

All college transcripts(Occidental, Columbia, Harvard Law).

Any statements of naturalized
citizenship.

A complete list of his campaign donors.

The public is entitled to know
who Obama is.

All I want to know is who or what is the official body who actually confirms, by actually looking at the 'actual' birth certificate of not only Sen. Obama, but any presidential candidate before he/she even runs for president?

Wouldn't that be the common sense thing to do?

There are so many uninformed comments here. Read, and understand, what the Constitution says. It is quite clear but nowhere do I see who actually confirms eligibility?

It's staggering how many people out there are dead-set on blaming the Left for all the problems created by the Right.
Fear. Paranoia. Threats of violence.
I wish they would all just take their guns and boatloads of bad Karma to the Red states and leave the rest of us alone.

it wasn't a republican who brought the original suit. It was a member out of hillary's camp so produce the document or have hugo chavez running in 2016.

Either you are a United States Citizen or you are not, its simple. If he is let him prove it. If no one is for our Constitution let him leave this country. This country is based on laws and regulations, its time for Americans to set up!! because our government won't do what is right for this country that has already been proven by the synagoge of satan.

Sorry people you can't cheat all your life!!!

We won!!!

GET OVER IT !!!!

America you are trully 'ucked in the head.
Those who dispute the election of President-elect Obama by a landslide cannot stomach the fact that a black President has been elected to office to serve in the post segregated "White-man's only house". Go and look at yourself in the mirror. Find out where your true blue blood lies and then some!

There is a fact that everyone is overlooking, the mainstream media ignores or attacks any issue that does not fit into the Shadow Government's template. Obama is their man and if Obama is a fraud the truth will never see the light of day. The same would have been true for McCain if he had been the anointed One. Am I a conspiracy theorist? Perhaps... America, since WWII has moved steadily to the left, no conspiracy there right? The Clinton administration moved America further to the left, no conspiracy theory there right? George W. Bush in the name of War on Terrorism moved us closer to a police state no conspiracy there right? All of you wing nuts, tin hats, conspiracy theorists, left wingers, right wingers, had better get a grip on your Liberties or else practice saying: Sieg Heil to an inevitable Furher! One last parting shot: No two humans have ever conspired or plotted against a third party right? No government has conspired against its people right? Folks get your head out of your backside before its too late. I pray our president elect is a good man and that he will truly fight to restore our Liberties. Commerce and trade will return within a free and self governed people. I am afraid we are moving toward slavery not freedom. Is that a reasonable assumption or is it a conspiracy theory? Good day....

If he has a real birth certificate why has over $2 million dollars been spent on hiding it? Obama could have spent the money on CHANGE. Ha,ha!

I believe that since Sarah Palin said she could "see Russia" from her home she should be considered an alien and should be barred from running for any elected office.

Republicans = retar ded

The boys and gals, of the rank Republican Party, have a few rocks left over, after their disastrous Presidential election loss and they found a perfect target for them: our next President, President Obama !! Can you get any more patriotic than that ?? These America-haters are hiding under the Constitution, to do their character-assassinating !! It will only alienate more voters, towards that rank Republican Party !! Keep it up, all of you, Bush-McCain Republicans, and you will not be able to elect a Mickey Mouse for a cartoon character, in other words, another George Bush !!
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, BRING THEM HOME, ALIVE AND WHOLE. NOW.

Obummers, eat Constitution for the first time in your pathetic lives. The Zionist controlled puppet was born in Kenya as testified by his relatives. McCain is not eligible also for being born in a Panama hospital. The Founders didn't envision 'standing armies', invasive wars concocted by foreign bankers in the US, or for a terrorist state in the Middle East. Much less American citizens born in foreign military bases. Read Jefferson, for the first time in your ignorant lives. Black riots for a fallen illegal alien? Come and get it! True Americans are fed up with all the garbage they have received from Washington for more than a century of lies, deceit, and treachery. The US must have new, people controlled, not party manipulated, presidential elections. The chain of command below Pelosi stands, as that woman must be impeached and brought to justice for obstructing it, in the case of war criminals Bush & Cheney.

Have you all looked at your own or your kids' birth certificates lately? The Chicago birth certificate has no signature (except the one that's printed as part of the form). There's no hospital name. And for the love of jah, do they have to send an original to everyone in the country? Of course we're seeing a digital redacted copy. I'm so annoyed.

Oh Debbie, I KNOW you are beneath me. I cited case law that is sure to come up if the SCOTUS decides to give this garbage the time of day. But again, either reading is too hard or you are too lazy to seek knowledge.

See, the definition of "citizen" is not how you and your small minded friends see or think it should be. IT HAS already been defined in the case I cited and other subsequent cases that actually over-qualifies Obama and should raise doubts about McCain. But seriously, if McCain had won we sure wouldn't be having this conversation now would we?

So as I said, GET OVER IT and learn how to say...PRESIDENT OBAMA! Jeez, you just confirmed my earlier point!

There'll always be a shawdow /question in people's mind in his presidency if Obama again only uses his market machine to crush his opponents this time. - This is actually now more about the court of public opinion. The doubt is now sowed - Obama better to come out clean this time with definite answers

Just to point something out, if the born a US citizen thing was in place in 1787, we would not have had our first 6 or 7 presidents. I believe that Martin Van Buren was the first president born in America after 1776. Technically everyone before him were British.

The reason the constitution says US soil is that everyone born on US soil is a natural born citizen. That is also why US military bases and embassies are sovereign US soil. If a child such as McCain is born on a base because his parents are military he too is a natural born citizen.

If both sides of this silly argument would care to actually read the constitution and subsequent case law, this whole thing would go away.

On the other hand, it is pretty funny to watch both sides try to justify themselves. Hawaii was a state, he was born there per the hospital and the stated records. So lets stop holding his name and looks against him. If he were named Samuel Jackson, this wouldn't be an issue.

Finally, we've had several presidents who were born in the states of denial and or confusion and they got the job. LOL

they've already trampled our constitution under foot, what's another step ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6ZIHbFQAzU

goldieshouse.piczo.com

It's amazing how many of you are misinformed about the way things work, both now and in 1961.

In 1961, Hawaii allowed people to register foreign births in Hawaii without any proof (other than a self-signed affidavit). Google it.

Their are two types of official birth documents.

A Certificate of Live Birth (COLB) - this proves that a person actually exists.

The actual text at the top of the Hawaii COLB states:

"This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the [u]fact of birth [/u]in any court proceedings"

Notice it says "fact of birth" not where the birth occured.

A Certification of Live Birth - this is what most describe as a long form and usually has much more information like doctor's name, witnesses, time of birth, etc.

Obama has DELIBERATELY prohibited anyone (using legal means) from obtaining the original (from 1961) long-form document from Hawaii...if it even exists.

Because of the ability of foreigners to freely register the births of their children in Hawaii in 1961 (with nothing more than a signed statement), there is justifiable concern, especially since other documentation shows him using another name (Barry Soetoro) claiming Indonesian citizenship.

What does this matter some have asked? Because the Constitution this country is founded on demands that their be no possibility of duel allegiances for the position of POTUS. It's the only position with these specific requirements in the Constitution.

The one question that no Obama supporter can answer honestly is:

Why won't he just allow all the documents he's sealed (birth, school records, health records, etc) be released so that many people (47%) can feel comfortable with him as their leader.

If you've got nothing to hide, then lay it all out on the table and let people make their decision on who you are, not who you portray yourself to be.

everybody's stupid.

If it were so clear and certain why have they been able to prove that the certificate posted on factcheck is a photoshop fraud? If he really was a "natural born citizen" and could legally occupy the office, why would he produce a fraudulent document to prove his citizenship?

Sure we've got lots of other problems with Obama. He's a marxist, he's gay, he's a liar, his new appointees look like a Bush Clinton III admin, he's stooge for the New World Order, he's liar, he's for big socialist government programs, Just like Bush he's already saying don't worry about the deficits for now, he lied about the tax cuts, he's going to try to rebuild American by creating ditch digging jobs, Instead of creating jobs he now is going to try and "save" them, He is putting the FED in charge of the treasury which has already been looted by the FED. I could go on and on.

The Obama zombies are in for a rude awakening and the liberal policies continue to destroy America.

This issue is about Obama's citizenship not his birth certificate. The law states that if you are born on U.S. soil you are automatically a natural born citizen and no one is contesting that he was born on U.S. soil. Add the fact that his mother is a full natural born U.S. citizen and I don't see how this arguement has a leg to stand on. Some people are just grasping at straws here looking for a way to prevent the majority of voters from getting what they have asked and voted for. The right unfairly got their way in 2000 and this time the popular vote matched up with the electorial votes so please give the man a chance. No matter what it will be a significant improvement over the last eight years and current joke of an administration.

You people that say the Repubs are attacking Barack or racists are attacking him are idiots. I am an African-American 30 year old male and a Democrat and I will be the first to tell you that this Barack guy scares me. The untouchable Black guy. The Constitution of the United States is slowly disappearing and this is further proof. Don't get so caught up in this individual where you are willing to give up your constitutional rights and civil liberties, he's not that important.

Are you people really that ignorant? Through out the lenght of the election, I heard the most tasteless and racist comments Ive ever heard in my life. Does anyone ever wonder why the rest of the world looks at us the way they do. In case everyone forgot, the only reason they are here today is because of all their ancestors and the trips they made to make it here. How about we all grow up and teach our children how not to be as ignorant as these right wing nut jobs.

Make no mistakes, people. Barack Obama's mother was a U.S. citizen. So for those questioning his citizenship, you are saying that any pregnant U.S. woman who goes abroad (or to Mexico or to Canada) on vacation and goes in labor while away, her baby is not American? Is that what people are saying because it happens all the time! I know people who were military who had babies outside of the U.S. and those children are considered AMERICAN.

This would not be an issue if a white American mother had a WHITE child while visiting relatives in Canada (just for an example). People would NEVER question that the baby is obviously American. Let's call this what it is...racism, plain and simple.

Barack Obama was born to an AMERICAN CITIZEN! Give it a rest, people.

Someone posted saying "I bet if McCain won they wouldn't be asking him for proof of citizenship". Well, of course they wouldn't. He already provided it. He provided his birth certificate and all other documents required. Obama is not showing his birth certificate and numerous other documents. Why not? What is he afraid of? If he is afraid to show his own countrymen a few documents, how is he going to handle confrontation with hostile countries? What kind of leadership is this? What kind of example is this setting? A leader that is afraid to step up and do what is required of him, is not a leader at all. It is also setting an example of saying "you don't need to follow the rules". If this is the kind of leadership we can expect (being a chicken and not taking responsibility for own actions in the past by being scared to show all these documents), this country is in big trouble when he actually has to make big decisions for this country. This is scary, real scary. Here is a list of documents he is chicken to produce. And just a reminder, they would not have had to ask McCain to produce these documents because he already produced everything he was required to produce and is not ashamed of his past or had anything to hide. Here is the list that Obama refuses to produce:
Certified Copy of original Birth certificate (Alternative seen by Factcheck.org)

Columbia College records
Columbia Thesis paper
Certification of Live Birth showing where born (Now seen by Factcheck.org)

Harvard College records
Illinois State Senate records
Illinois State Senate schedule
Law practice client list and billing records/summary
Locations and names of all half-siblings and step-mothers
Medical records (only the one page summary released so far)

Occidental College records
Parent's Marriage Certificate

Record of baptism
Selective Service Registration
Trips schedules for trips outside of the United States before 2007
Scholarly articles
Campaign donor analysis requested by 7 major watchdog groups

Please repeat after me: On January 20th., there will be a 44th and 1st African American President running this beautiful nation call AMERICA! His name is President Elect Barack Hussein Obama! How I love the sound of his name. This is the first time in my life, I am Proud of my COUNTRY! Change has come to AMERICA!!

Once again...the Donofrio case IS NOT ABOUT A BIRTH CERTIFICATE. The Birth certificate conspiracy has been completely debunked over and over again and there is not one credible news source (NOT EVEN FOX NEWS) who disputes that he was born in Hawaii and born an American citizen. Get over it.

Barack Obama did release his vault birth certificate - it is what the FBI used to vet him - Those that continue with this are only doing so because they want a republican in the white house - they are sore losers. This man is a natural born citizen - is entitled to run for and be elected president and the racists and the republicans need to get over it. If they cannot win legally, they will try to steal it, just like they did in 2004. This time it will not work - certified copies of his birth certifcate were provided to all including the news organizations before the elections and so there only option is to claim he is not natural born and to create more lies and then lies to cover those lies.

We simply ask for Transparency with regards to Barack Obama's Citizenship.

It seems logical that unless there is a problem and he knows there is one, he would be more than willing to release the original long form vault copy for forensic examination.

What is he hiding?

Please, see my page @ YouTube.com for info.

http://www.youtube.com/user/JPK7777777

May God Bless The USA!

Thanks.

The real question is why not just show proof?
The reason he cant is he was adopted as an indonesian and never reclaimed American citizenship.

Anatomy, Jason, Sandra Levy,etal. I am just amazed that you people are still trying to thow up the smoke-screen that the COLB that Obama is using, is proof that he is a Natural Born Citizen. The document you are refering to has been judged a forgery by 4 expert document examiners, Do you know what a forgery is? It is not proof of anything. Obama went to a great deal of expense, and risk to present this phoney COLB which is not a birth certificate in the first place. Hawaii has stated that they have his long form on file, but they WILL NOT SAY what is on it. However, all of this is not the problem for Obama anyway. the problem that he will not be able to make go away is the fact that he has a dual citizenship. The Constitution specifically says that no one with a dual citizenship will be eligible to become the President of the U.S.
Now please stop the smart mouthed, assinine comments about those that want to defend the Constitution. Obama has known for years that he is NOT a Natural Born Citizen and he has been selling you a pig in a poke and you bought it.

I thought Bush/Cheney were secretive. BHO has hiden his passport info, his entire college records (could they show him to be a foreign student?) and his long form birth certificate. Very Bushian of him. He provides a modern "reprint" of a COLB using computer technology. I didn't know they had this in 1961. He has hired 3 large law firms, not lawyers, but firms to fight any release of his records. No medical records, no college records, no passport records, no Selective Service records. He has spent over 1/2 million on something he could put away with a $12 fee to Hawaii. If this is an example of his economic skills, were all in trouble.
This smells worse than Bush/Cheney. For all the idealogs in blind support, why are these records being kept secret? Anyone? What does he have to hide that requires spending so much money to keep these records from the people that elected him? Is this the new America, where nobody really knows your name?

To: Elizabeth (December 6, 2008 3:40 a.m.) & CN (4:10 a.m.):
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It has already been established that British law does not determine the citizenship status of those born within the United States. The U.S. Constitution determines that. The Fourteenth Amendment - which is declarative of the Common Law on the subject - states that, “[a]ll persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.” Persons who become citizens the moment they are born are “Natural Born” Citizens. All others are naturalized citizens. Thus, if one is born within the United States, that person is Natural Born Citizen of the United States unless they are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States (for reasons which don’t apply to Barack Obama).
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The case law is equally clear that the laws of one country cannot determine the citizenship status of a person born within the territory, and subject to the jurisdiction, of another country. The U.S. disavows any right to make that determination, and it denies that right to any other country regarding those born within the U.S. The U.S. or Great Britain might provide, by statute, a basis for automatic naturalization of one born overseas of native parents. But that doesn’t change a person’s citizenship status until and unless he or she exercises his/her right to expatriation. Hence, the British Nationalization act of 1948 did not make Barack Obama any less of a Natural Born Citizen if, in fact, he was born in Honolulu, Hawaii. It could only provide the basis for his naturalization as a British subject if, in fact, he left the U.S. for the realm. Therefore, Donofrio’s admission that Obama was born in Hawaii should mean his case is toast.
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Likewise, Donofrio is wrong in asserting that a Natural Born Citizen is only a person whose parents are both U.S. citizens. To the contrary, the U.S. Supreme Court has held that a child born here whose parents were both foreign nationals was a citizen by birth. If having two alien parents doesn’t deprive a person of citizenship by birth (as long as the parents are not consular officers or aliens in hostile occupation of U.S. territory), then the fact Barack Obama had one foreign national for a parent won’t do it either.

http://www.grassfire.org/111/petition.asp?Ref_ID=1931

Read B.Hussien Obama(aka) Barry Soetoro's resume and go to updates:

www.theobamafile.com

Over 2 million have read the 'truth!'

Yes,the 'liars' and 'gullible' won--but Pro-American's never surrender! You might as well get ready!

www.obamaimpeachment.org

Catch my drift-Obama-Rats!

Dig back for the source of this case based on "propaganda"

Here's a place to start:

http://hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/210-Bad-Science-How-Not-To-Do-Image-Analysis.html

* * * * *
This would not be an issue if a white American mother had a WHITE child while visiting relatives in Canada (just for an example). People would NEVER question that the baby is obviously American. Let's call this what it is...racism, plain and simple.
* * * * *
Posted by: wifey | December 6, 2008 11:15 AM
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Actually, it would be an issue if a white child were born in Canada. That child might be a U.S. citizen by virtue of U.S. laws granting him or her naturalization based on his/her parents’ citizenship. However, that child would not be a “Natural Born Citizen” within the meaning of Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution and, thus, ineligible to hold the office of President. No one is questioning Barack Obama’s U.S. citizenship; they are questioning his status as a Natural Born Citizen (albeit frivolously). Distinctions, distinctions.

Do people honestly believe that Obama, a constitutional law professor, would run for the office if he wasn't eligible?
Do you honestly believe that this is the first time that Obama has had to provide his birth certificate? Do you believe that Clinton and McCain didn't follow up on the crazies assertions? People get some perspective.
It is also interesting that the rationale for the suit has evolved because irrefutable proof has been established that he was born in Hawaii, so now they are alleging because his father was a Kenyan/British citizen that Obama had dual citizenship and that makes him ineligible. Get over it, Obama was born in Hawaii to an American mother and will be sworn in on January 20th. It's a shame that these people who are so outraged over a manufactured controversy remained silent while Bush and Cheney decimated the Constitution that you are all so concerned about now.

I keep hearing the republicans or doing this but it is a prominent Democrat that did the suit

HAHAHAHA This is just silly and a waste of tax money. People face it, if you don't want President elect to be your President then move out the U.S. and become a resident and citizen there. On Dec.15th it will be CERTIFIED BY THE ELECTORAL AND JAN.20TH WE WILL DANCE IN THE STREETS.

John W.
Another source below post.
Donofrios's case to SCOTUS is based on the argument that Obama Sr was British - as Kenyans then were and this Britishness was inherited by his son making him a dual citizen and therefore not natural born. Seems logical to me.
Of course with true American arrogance I suppose the idea that an American mother was not the end all and be all of all that was necessary, clouds the picture.
Well the sun had not yet set on the British Empire and Obama Sr passed that on to his son and nothing can change it. Your President elect was born British.
George 111 must be laughing in his grave and for more than one reason.
To watch the contortions and wriggling of those who would destroy and over ride the American Constitution to hand the presidency to a British born candidate with not only dual citizenship, but possibly triple, and with so many names and passports its hard to keep up - is revenge indeed.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=82833

I believe Obama wouldn´t have declared his candidacy if he had known he wasn´t eligible for the post of POTUS.

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

(In Case of the Removal of the President from Office, or of his Death, Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office, the same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by Law provide for the Case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.) (This clause in parentheses has been modified by the 20th and 25th Amendments.)

THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITES STATES SAYS BARACK WILL BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT!! THE CONSTITUTION'S WORDS;NOT MINE!! IT IS SO CUT AND DRIED U REMEDIAL REPUBLICANS!!

"You have to be kidding right? The birth certificate was verified months ago by the state of Hawaii where it is filed. It has been posted on the internet for months also.Posted by: Anatomy"
=================
If I lived my life like you democrats, with your heads firmly implanted in your backsides, I might be skeptical about a seemingly unimportant matter. Withdraw your head just long enough to learn the truth. A birth certificate WAS shown on the internet, but it was a doctored certificate, meaning it was declared by experts to be a fake document. You think, maybe, since that little ploy didn't work, that Obama's crowd is hesitant to present another "birth certificate" because they "DON"T HAVE ONE"???? Do you democrats ever use your brains, or are they so clouded by your hatred for George Bush, that you don't hear no evil, see no evil, or speak no evil, unless about Bush?
Democrats are not smart people.

The putrid patriots of the rank Republicans are hiding behind our Constitution to try and undermine President-elect Obama's Presidency !!
Get over it, boys and girls, you lost the election. Now, let's see if you can practice what you preach, when President-elect Obama becomes our Commander-in-Chief !! See if you can respect the Office of the Presidency, and he who occupies it, like all good Americans will !! I don't think you are capable, especially the Bush-McCain Republicans, they aren't interested in America. All they want is for America to bow to their fascistic ideals. It isn't going to happen, so, become a real American again. America has spoken, President-elect Obama is our next President, for four years, or more !!
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, BRING THEM HOME, ALIVE AND WHOLE. NOW.

This whole thing is silly. Even if he was adopted by an Indonesian after being born on US soil, he is still considered a natural born citizen. If he hasn't as an adult signed papers renouncing his US citizenship and applying for citizenship elsewhere, he is a citizen, period.

My niece and nephew have dual citizenship with New Zealand. Their mother is American and their dad is a Kiwi. They were born in New Zealand so neither can run for president despite the fact that they are American citizens.

Really, article II of the constitution is pretty clear and the founders put it in there because all of them were originally British citizens but since they were born in the colonies, they added the part about being born on American soil as a way to prevent a foreign power to try to win the presidency.

Finally, the people who are trying to say that BO is not a citizen because only one parent was a citizen are the same ones who are PO'd about Mexicans coming here to have their babies because their babies are automatically citizens. You really can't be mad about both things at the same time.

I would make them spend all there money too, with attorneys and fees them show the birth certificate. Just to teach them a lesson. He has let the people that needed to see it, see it. McCain was not a Citizen, but would we be doing this if he was elected....No... People we have a right to know but stop with all this hate and bashing. The country is in a slump and we still can’t agree. Sad for America…

Where is Abraham Lincoln's birth certificate?
Or was he born in England and spirited into the US in 1809 at age of 9 months?

Where is the original of the Constituteion??

This whole thing is serious to this extent:
an effort to delegitimize Obama.
Just a little overture to the relentless attack that is to begin: every word will be fly specked, every article and adjective criticized, every visitor received at the WH subject to the "Ayers" treatment. You've heard of being "Borked"?
Now they'll talk of being "Ayered".
If you recall, the Bush v. Gore debacle had a similar element of delegitimization of Bush.

Difference: in the latter (Bush) case, it was warranted.

As was pointed out above, someone found a birth announcement in the Honolulu paper at the time of the birth.
There must have been quite a conspiracy going on at the time, right? They must have known this child was going to run for President some day, and ran down to the newpaper and put in an announcement which to the non conspiracy minded, is ample corroboration of a birth inside the USA. (If that announcement were placed by conspirators, they overlooked the middle name which might be a problem in a supposedly "Christian" nation).

My bet is more people than not in this ole country could not put their hands on a "vault copy signed sealed delivered" birth certificate.
Reason: welllll. Each jurisdiction has different rules about how entries are made in the public records. Some I daresay actually have a "retention" (read, "destruction") policy that shreds reporting forms from hospitals once the entries are made in the electronic/official recordbooks.

Of course the trolls know this.

There's another reason the actual reporting forms were destroyed in the past: the issue of legitimacy and adoption.

But this is just a big red herring.

Thank God I went to law school and thank God that I took an Immigration law course because some of the posters on here are uninformed and uneducated. No wonder other nations laugh at our educational system. A natural born citizen is one who was born on the soils of the US (e.g. if a Mexican woman comes to the US illegally and has a child here her child is a natural born US citizen) OR if the child is born overseas then then the child will automatically be considered a natural born citizen if the MOTHER IS A US CITIZEN. If the mother is a non-citizen and the father is a US citizen but the child was born abroad the child will be considered a natural born citizen IF the father establishes paternity and meets other conditions such as a bond between father and child. Fathers have to go an extra step because of that old motto "Mother's baby, father's maybe. The point is if Obama was born on Hawaii he would be a natural born American citizen even if both of parents were or were not citizens. If he was born overseas he would still be considered a natural born American citizen based on the fact that his mother was a US citizen.

Obama was born in Kenya. Berg has the sworn affidavits proving this. Obama produced a false certificate of live birth claiming he was born in Hawaii. This is not the same thing as a birth certificate. He did so knowing it was fraudulent and a lie. He used that false document to claim he could legitimately run for office of POTUS. It stands to reason that he had some doubt or he would not have lied and produced a falsified document to try and put the issue to rest. The DNC is also complicit in the fraud as well as the national media who continue to try and cloud the real issue.

Here is a report by Dr. Polarik proving this COLB is a photoshop fake.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2136816/posts

The Obama media has not reported this yet. The first reports were available as early as July 20th.

This is the real issue. It is criminal what he has done. Obama should be arrested and tried for defrauding the American electorate. An election based on fraud and deception is not the basis of validating and election. The majority does not rule when it comes to the US Constitution or interpreting the law. This undermines not only the spirit but the letter of the laws of our constitution and our election laws.

We are not surprised the dummycrats have been fooled by this charlatan. But shame on the Republican leadership who has not and still has not challenged this fraudulent election. It is an example of how compromised the Republican party really is today. It is empty shell of American conservative values.

If Obama and the DNC and the New World Order wanted to modify or change the US Constitution there is a legal way to do it. Obama thinks he can illegally posses the office and then change the Constitution to suit the selfish personal needs of his ego.

Does the Supreme court have the backbone to do their job and rule on the law? It is highly unlikely. They will pull a Pontius Pilate and wash their hands of the crime. The American people have no standing. This is suppose to be the peoples court to protect us from the rich and powerful. Now it protects the rich and powerful. This is the same morally compromised court that has allowed the murder of millions of innocent babies in the womb in the name of women's reproductive rights. This is the same court that has presided over the destruction of the American way of life by the liberals and socialist and communist and atheists. Thanks to them criminals have more rights than citizens.

It is highly unlikely that they will find their conscious after it has so completely compromised. The undermining of the judicial system has been one of the main strategies of the New World Order in dismantling the US Constitution. They are very close to finally succeeding in destroying America.

The Obama Zombies seem quite pleased with this because they themselves have sold their souls to this charlatan Obama or whatever the hell his name is. He is the mystery man of the New World Order. He appears to have been groomed for this role by them for many years.

* * * * *
Posted by: Elizabeth | December 6, 2008 5:45 PM
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Please re-read my response to your last post. Donofrio’s argument is not logical if one understands the Supreme Court’s case law concerning citizenship by birth. You didn’t need to repeat the argument. I got it the first time - and debunked it. The argument doesn’t hold any water because British law does not determine, or pre-empt American law in determining, the citizenship of a child born in the United States and subject to its jurisdiction. Only American law can do that. Under American law, if Barack Obama was born in the United States, as he claims, then he is a Natural Born Citizen of the United States according to the Constitution and the U.S. Supreme Court cases construing its relevant provisions. And that is true despite is father’s citizenship or anything British law has to say.
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Under established American constitutional law, a child born in the U.S. is a Natural Born Citizen of the U.S. with only two exceptions - neither of which applies to Obama. The common law related to citizenship by birth is “jus soli” (i.e. “the law of right of soil”) based on the notion of allegiance by birth arising from the protection of the sovereign. That is, a child born on the soil of a nation and subject to its protection has both the rights and duties of a natural born citizen/subject. This was part of the common law of England that the States and the federal government adopted as their own in the United States. It is the law by which the relevant provisions of the Constitution have been construed. It also explains the only two exceptions to becoming a Natural Born Citizens at birth.
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The first exception is where one or both parents are consular officers of a foreign government. Foreign ambassadors and consular officers are not considered “subject to the jurisdiction” of the country in which they perform their duties. To be effective advocates for their own nations, their allegiance must remain with their country of origin. Therefore, a child born to a foreign diplomat or consular officer, not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, is not a citizen.
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The second, and much rarer exception, is the situation in which a child is born in a disputed territory by virtue of a hostile invasion and at least one of the child’s parents is a member of the invading army. Armies, like diplomats, owe their allegiance to their country of origin. Therefore, their children do not gain natural citizenship by jus soli.
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Aside from these two exceptions, the foreign nationality of one or both parents of a child born in the U.S. does not otherwise deprive a child born in the United States of his or her status as a Natural Born Citizen. Since we know Obama’s parents weren’t ambassadors or warriors, the exceptions don’t apply to him. Furthermore, the foreign nation whose laws are in issue (e.g. the U.K) doesn’t pretend to force British citizenship upon a foreign national born in his own country. This is all you need to know to figure out that Donofrio hasn’t got a leg to stand on.

Did the current President prove he was eligible to be POTUS?? I haven't seen Dubya's birth certificate. So go find it haters and get back to us.

HAHAHAHA This is just silly and a waste of tax money. People face it, if you don't want President elect to be your President then move out the U.S. and become a resident and citizen there. On Dec.15th it will be CERTIFIED BY THE ELECTORAL AND JAN.20TH WE WILL DANCE IN THE STREETS.

Maybe the unofficial President-Elect and all of those that were duped by his fraudelent birth certificate copy ought to think about moving out of the country.

I like Obama but wonder why he doesn't just produce his bc papers? In addition, his school records from college and his thesis would be good to release...but I think that he has to be something to hide by not producing his records. I think he went to school and stated that he was a foreigner in his registration? With his intelligence, I bet his school records show a high GPA?

And lets not forget, he could never be hired to work in his own administration because of all the questions asked about ones past relationships, etc. Obama could not even be granted a top secret security clearance if required to do so to be POTUS???

I want Obama to be successful...I really do. It’s just that our Constitution and the rules set forth by our Framers should most definitely not be ignored. If we want to change the rules...an amendment would be in order in the future. But for now, we have to follow the law! This issue is non-patrician. It is a constitutional question and the SCOTUS needs to make a decision or our Constitution will become worthless.

I sit here reading some of your comments. It's amazing how many people actually think they know what is going on.. Or better yet, think that Republicans suck or Democrats suck. Last time I checked people are individuals first before anything else. I have never know anyone to seal their birth certificate; especially to run and do it while your visiting your dying grandmom. I had to show my birth certificate to get in the military. Not only that if you were to have the connections and involvment with some of the people Obama has been around, lived with and is friends with, he wouldn't have been able to get a secret clearance. SO how can he be President? He couldn't even get in the military.. I don't have anything against the man, it's just funny what we will over-look just to have someone get elected. -- Bottom line their are too many people in America to get everyone happy or on the same page. Enjoy the freedoms you get just by simply being born here and have done nothing to earn them unless you served or serve!!! Be thankful you could vote, don't be ignorant because your guy didn't win. Oh last thing, all of you who think the war will end, the economy will be perfect again, everyone will have jobs, etc, etc... FORGET ABOUT IT!!! History lesson, we have never invaded a country and completely left. We have been on Korea for 50+ years, Iraq will be no different! Bush didn't ruin the country, WE DID, by electing a bunch of idiots to run our country and no I'm not talking about Bush (whether you like him or not, It was an honor to serve under him.--God Bless

"Get over it, boys and girls, you lost the election.
Posted by: Don Fitzgerald, Chicago | December 6, 2008 6:55 PM"
====================
We know we lost, nitwit. The funny thing is that YOU LOST, also. Come back in four years and make that same statement. If you people like living in a socialist/communist society, why didn't you move to Sweden, Canada, England, etc. instead of drinking the Koolaid of this fake Rev. Jim Jones of Guyana fame. Months ago, before the election, when I was asked by friends how I felt about Obama's chance of winning, I would reply that I did not think there were enough idiots in this country to elect a radical, marxist/socialist, with his questionable friends, to the presidency. I WAS WRONG. THERE WERE MORE THAN ENOUGH IDIOTS.
Now, Obama, SHOW US A CERTIFIED BIRTH CERTIFICATE. That should be more than easy to do. Right? Oh!!! You don't have one. Mercy, me.
Democrats are not smart people.

I guess we just discovered another way to waste the court's time. Doesn't the Supreme Court have better cases to deal with? Did Clarence take this case because last summer Obama said he would've never appointed him so early in his legal career?
Want to know why it takes so long for a criminal to go to trial? Because of morons that clog the judicial system with frivolous cases like this.
I guess the Dept. of Vital Statistics can no longer verify someone's birth?
Mr. Donofrio and others who sue for this should pay the court for its time.

I, like many, am pleased and proud that the US has elected as its President an African-American. I truly DO expect he will prove to be a much better choice than McCain. There are others on both sides I favored over McCain and Obama, but I am solidly behind Barack.

And to those who think everyone concerned about this matter is a right winger, Republican, and bigoted: I am none of those things, and have accolades from Civil Rights groups for my active involvement in equal employment opportunity causes. I have never been a Republican, and seldom voted for their candidates.

There is much to admire about Barack Obama, but one of those things is NOT how he has handled this, with lawyers and "technical defenses" getting in the way of determining the whole true story.

If Rockton Bob is hanging around, I must tell you there IS no one, no body, no board, no committee, etc, responsible for verifying a candidate's elibility. It's a hole in the framework.

If CJ is here,re: your comment about the FBI having seen the original birth documents; where did you learn that?

I am bothered that Obama has supressed so much information (see the list provided by Brian S in this thread).

Xpedient has captured the important aspects of this in an earler note. I agree completely with him/her.

The truth is ALL RIGHT HERE!! accept it OBAMA HEADS!! QUIT LYING TO YOUR dilusional neofacist obamanazi selves!!

http://www.facebook.com/ext/share.php?sid=41470401921&h=t3W_N

The Supreme Court is not going to hear this stupid challenge, it's just a bunch of crazy racist Republicans who are wasting the court's time. Nobody cares what the circus freak Wingnuts, who got Bush elected twice, have to say anymore. It's a non issue to 99.99% of Americans..

If this is all the GOP can bring--then they got nothing (as usual). I think of it as a good sign when after a couple of years of digging they are laying their hope on something that has already been thoroughly debunked.

Here's a take home copy of Prez-elect Obama's birth certificate for the Repugs out there who want a keep sake of their latest rejected delusion.
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http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/4918/colmkbtwluu9.gif
.

ATTENTION REPUBLICANS!!!

THE WAR IS OVER!!!

YOU LOST...AGAIN!!!

THAT MAKES TWO LOSES IN ROW FOR YOU!!!

WHY DON'T YOU START SPENDING MORE TIME COMING UP WITH BETTER POLICY PROPOSALS FOR YOUR CANDIDATES AND LESS TIME WITH CATCH PHRASES, TALKING POINTS, FEAR MONGERING, SMEARING AND CRAZY DELUSIONAL CONSPIRACY THEORIES?!?!

NOW GO CRAWL BACK UNDER YOUR ROCKS AND COME BACK IN 2010!!!

I would like the Supreme Court to look at all of this information, interpret the constitution, and make a ruling.
What is wrong with that?
If the Supreme Court approves of Obama's information and documents, fine.
If the Supreme Court decides otherwise, fine.
So far most of Obama's information and documents have been hidden by three law firms.
Why?
What is he hiding?
I smell a skunk.

Oh glee. Yes, Yes, Yes. Fabulous. The nay sayers are agitated, and so things are getting more entertaining. I see the word "facts" bandied about more than anything else in opposition to getting to the heart of whether or not 0 =Zero (Obama) is a natural born citizen.
(I'm grinning now). Let's review for the lefties,shall we, and don't forget, the word "Left", as it has been vilified for half a century now, is really a nice word for communist.
1. Obama's mother was a US citizen at the time of his birth.
A number factors may yet prove this wrong.
2. The Hawai officials are trusted servants of the public who must be believed when they say Obama's locked-in-the-vault Birth Certificate reflects the info on the published one.
Boulderdash! or rather, What a bowl of Sheep-dip. Just like Eliot Spitzer was trustworthy? I say, SHOW ME THE BEEF!, and I'll be the first to call 0 president.
3. I'm paraphrasing now: "Don't you people know anything about the law? The legal question before SCOTUS is not about 0's citizenship, but about whether We The People have a right to see 0's original birth certificate".
Tsk, tsk, tsk. Whatever the case is about before SCOTUS, in the minds of millions of Americans, moi included, is whether or not 0 is a usurper, and the truth will come out of all this "IF" SCOTUS has the courage to abide by the constitution.

I'm still grinning, and the shrill nay sayers are still boiling angry.

They need to get to the bottom of this thing otherwise Obama can't rule effectively if there is always doubt that he should be there.

Spend the money produce the birth certificate and show the people the same thing they have to show the DMV when they need to get a drivers licence. If you have nothing to hide there shouldn't be an issue.

Friends let me ask you all to look into your hearts, your very souls and think of all the heroes, the ones that came before us, the men and women who gave their very lives to protect and honor what we as a nation stand for. I beseech you to look past any issues of color or creed and consider what we as a nation intend to carry out. I do not intend to force my will upon you in a last ditch effort to win an office. I merely ask you to think about what this kind of decision can and will do to the morale of our Nation. Don’t think that because I as an individual would like an answer to some basic questions that this means I am against President elect Obama being in the oval office if he meets all of the credentials.
My friends, do we feel as a nation, having come this far as to be in a position to elect a President from such a humble background and enlightened diversity, that to loose now after all of this would cause us some how to relinquish our ability to think as free men and women and from this point on we would not be able to continue down this road as equals.
Or has fear of our past gripped this country so tightly as to cause us to want change so badly, no matter the cost? Please don’t blindly make a decision to go along with crowd just because this is the easier path and later we can all blame, “Group think” for our own actions.
Is it really too big a gesture on the part of an elected official to stop spending our tax paying dollars, the supreme courts time, and creating the fog of disbelieve being cause by blocking any challenges against full disclosure on the grounds of no standing.
Who then is able to ask such extraordinary questions, If not now when or better yet what will it be like to get answers after he takes office?
Is there any way we can solve this problem, that won’t take too much time or money and would satisfy all for an eternity while restoring faith in our electoral system.

If BO has nothing to hind, then he should step forward like a leader should, present the facts and end the argument.

And why must BO supporters always reduce an argument to childish name calling?

I'm amused, not agitated. I'll be sure & stock up on popcorn and plan on getting plenty of comedic relief watching soon to be President Obama haters coming unhinged.

According to Hawaii's official State Dept of Health documents, he was born in Honolua.

Dr. Fukino, the head of the Dept of health stated that she has "personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."

A local newspaper, the Honolulu Advertiser published his birth announcement in August 1961.

Contrary to what some of you allege here, it is clear to anyone with common sense that President Obama meets the constitional definition of a natural born citizen. Both of his parents could've been illegal aliens and he would still be a natural born citizen. If you doubt that, then I suggest googling "anchor babies"

This is a classic example why you cannot reason with conspiracy theorists. Nothing will ever satisfy them, they will merely keep moving the goal post.

Donofrio's suit originally sought to delay the election until Obama's birth certificate could be inspected. Now his suit assumes his birth certificate is valid & he's questioning his natural-born status based on his father's citizenship. In other words, he just pulled it out of thin air.

The fact is, POTUS Obama does NOT have dual citizenship. He is a natural-born American citizen. Get over it. Or not.

How many people showed up at the Supreme Court to protest against Obama Friday? 15 LOL

http://tinyurl.com/6zzvth

Gee, with numbers like that, I wonder how many protestors here are sockpuppets? The same 15 perhaps?

Hey doug...the name calling has been going both ways and in case you don't watch the news.....the birth certificate has been presented and it is valid AND the Donofrio case in this article is not about a birth certificate anyway.

How does the word racist have anything to do with what is going on here? I do not believe that the people I would call racist would ever have the intelligence or will to try and win over others to think for them selves. When the very people we are trying to reason with are unwilling to listen and continue to berate and degrade as if they didn’t know how to defend their own stance. My own son goes into this kind of ranting when he does not understand the facts.
Oh well, maybe he will grow out of it, he is only 9.
How is it that if I am a racist, by trying to protect my constitutional rights. And force this Obama to end this all by simply showing us his cards. And you are not a racist for forcing the issue of clinging to your first black president even if he is a usurper. If he were white he would he gone already. Try and remember, Just because he is black does not mean he is your God. And if he is, May Obama have mercy on your soul.

Obama admits on his own website he was a British citizen at birth because of his father's nationality.
He says it.
You cannot be POTUS if you hold dual citizenship at birth. It is explicitly ruled out in the American constitution.
Please don't waste my time - just check it out. Plenty of sites to give you the constitutional law.
This is the basis of the Donofrio case.
As so many posters are saying why doesn't he just release the proper papers. The bit of dross they tried to pass off on the internet has been declared a forgery by more than one expert.
This whole matter is ludicrous. To thought that the President elect has to hide his birth certificate from the public is mind shattering.
You couldn't make it up.

The thing that makes all these arguments silly is that the application to SCOTUS is an appeal. All the issues have been heard and decided by a trial court and at least one lower level appeal court, and Obama won every time. The only question before SCOTUS at the moment is whether they will review the matter again to see if the unanimous decisions below may have been wrong. If they decide not to hear the case, as seems likely, then the last appeal decision, that Obama is a natural-born citizen, is the law.

The one in the vault is not in question, the certificate he posted is garbage. Since when did African become a race? As stated on his certification of live birth.
Valid is not the point either, more to the point is really what is written on it.
But since the crew wont voluntarily give it to us. We will dog him until he is tired of us and he rounds us up and then when I am in the internment camp I will rethink my strategy.

GetOverIt says: "Dr. Fukino, the head of the Dept of health stated that she has 'personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."

Just a nit here, I suppose. In addition to saying the certificate is "on record", Did Dr. Fukino say the birth certificate states conclusively that the birth was in Hawaii? I ask because MY birth certificate (the "authentic" one on file of which I have a photocopy) names the woman who married my father after my natural mother died when I was 3. I was adopted by her (and my natural father) and then the birth certificate was modified to show her as my mother, and there is no distinction about it being "by adoption". Hawaii law allows for the same thing in the instance of adoption.

As for the listings in the newspaper, I have heard that newspapers (at least in Hawaii) would print the information provided to them. The clipping says nothing about the location of the birth, and I've heard parents sometimes DID put birth announcements in local papers where their friends and family live, as a way of simply announcing the birth event.

There are still some loose ends here. And, to my knowledge no one has explained why Barack has law firms handling this --- by resisting court involvement in the "subtance", and using technicalities to stall or table it.

I have never subscribed to any conspiracy theory. This one, though, feels quite peculiar to me.

Let's hope he is a natural born citizen. The presidential succession is Biden, Pelosi and then Byrd. Biden received 80,000 votes in the primaries.

I don't think people were necessarily voting for the Democratic Party & Biden as they were for Obama himself.

Obvously a lot of people have not read up on the issue of the birth certificate and are relying on the digital production displayed on the internet, wherein you can see his sister Maya's name under Obamas. The issue at hand is that his mother had given up her US citizenship, as well as his because Indonesia in 1961 did not recognize dual citizenships. She had him in Kenya, his paternal grandmother and several family members attended his birth. His mother flew days later to Hawaii and registered his birth, wherein he was issued a "certificate of live birth", not a regular birth certificate. Since his mother never re-applied for her own, or his US citizenship, he is a legal citizen of Indonesia, and was still using his Indonesian passport as of 2003. Lawyers, including Obama from the law firm he worked for tried to have the constitution changed, to omit the "natural born citizen" issue because they knew, just as he knows now, he is not legally vetted to even be on the ballot, nor President. That is why there are 17 law suits in the Supreme Court right now to come up with the vaulted birth certificate.

TO ALL YOU DEMOCRATS-- YELL WHILE YOU CAN--- You can see that you president elect is already changing his mind on his taxing of the big oil companys,,,, just wait,,,, we are all next.......We could go on and on but you Demo's would not understand anyway,,,,

* * * * *
"If they decide not to hear the case, as seems likely, then the last appeal decision, that Obama is a natural-born citizen, is the law."

Posted by: Bill | December 7, 2008 2:07 PM
.
I’m not trying to be contrary, but this is plainly wrong. A denial of certiorari is not a ruling on the merits. The decision of the last appellate court is “law of the case” only between the parties to the suit. It has value as precedent for purposes of stare decisis only in the circuit or state in which the appellate court sits - and then, only if the case was certified for publication. Not all appellate decisions are published, and I am unaware of any state or federal court that gives precedential value to unpublished decisions.
.
So, to correctly state the point, one might say: It will be the law to the parties to the suit and as precedent in the state or district where rendered. It is not the law to anyone else or anywhere else.

It is just amazing that people do-not care if this guy is a U.S. Citizen or not, what is the matter with you people, if it were McCain, you would want a Birth-Cirt. for sure, but becuse Obama is half black everyone is afraid to get the proof on his birth, there are a bunch of dumb people writing in response to this thing, get a brain........

This is simple. Produce the vaulted copy of your Birth Certificate, showing your proof of natural-born citizenship, Mr. Barak Hussain Obama. When my son wanted to play soccer in a local city league, I was required to show a registered copy of his birth certificate to prove he was the age I said he was. They did not just take my word for it. I also had to provide a registered copy of both my sons' birth certificates in order to enroll them in school. If I was required to show proof for these things, my good gracious, you'd think that anyone running for President of the United States of America would have to show proof of this Constitutional requirement. And those of you who do not agree with this requirement may begin the process to amend the Constitution. However, since this requirement stands, then it must be upheld. But, calling people of a certain group stupid or insane because they want to see the Constitution upheld is akin to a hate crime and just plain childish. So, stop the name calling and stick to debating with honor. Speaking of honor, the honorable thing for Obama to do would be to do the right thing and produce the documents in question in court for verification. He isn't winning any points with any American in acting so selfishly. If he is a natural-born citizen, then he has the votes and can proceed to be instated, but if not, then he should never have lied to an entire nation about his legitimacy and therefore should be prosecuted for fraud. Do the right thing, Mr. Obama.

INdependent 109>I've heard that there would be a constitutional question if Obama was found to be a non-citizen. They say it wouldn't be the same procedure say as if a someone was in office and couldn't finish out a term due to illness and they choose someone to fill their seat. This would be an entirely new situation that has never arisen before therefore there would be a hearing on how to proceed and justices would decide what action would be taken. I am for new elections if this were the case, since Obama would have won under false pretenses to begin with.

THIS IS SO FUNNY!

I THOUGHT ALL OF THE TINFOIL RIGHTWING CONSPIRACY NUTS HAD PEETERED THEMSELVES OUT DURING THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION...BUT SADLY, NO.

THE RIGHTWING LUNITIC FRINGER'S ALWAYS HAVE TO COME UP WITH SOME CRAKPOT TINFOIL CRAP TO EXPLAIN AWAY THEIR LOSSES. THEY DON'T GO AWAY WHEN THEY LOSE, THEY JUST SCREAM LOUDER.

OF COURSE, THEY WERE SILENT WHILE PREZ CHIMPY AND BUCKSHOT DARTH WERE SHREDDING THE CONSTITUTION THE LAST EIGHT YEARS.

HILARIOUS!!!!

Good Lord,
Does anyone actually believe that any candidate running for president has not been vetted by the Secret Service, FBI, etc. ad infinitum? Please stop wasting our time and continuing the divisiveness in this country. By the way, the fact that Clarence Thomas supports this speaks volumes doesn't it?

All of you saying it doesn't matter better think ahead. If the man is not a natural born citizen, next election you will likely get Arnold for your next president. That's right, the son of a nazi brownshirt. Think the constitution isn't important now?

Think the constitution isn't important now?

Posted by: Tony | December 7, 2008 6:04 PM

So where were you the last eight years while the Bush crime family was putting the constitution through a shredder every day?

This "birth certificate" thing that the rightwing lunitic fringers are pinning their hopes on is hilarious. I've never seen a more desperate and broken party than the 2008 version of the Republican party.

Am I getting under your skin lefties?
If we all thought like JEFF, what a beautiful world it would be, and if we all thought like GETOVERIT, it would be a beautiful world as well ... if it weren't for all the Hitlers, Stalins, Putins, and Ahmadinejads.
Without a modicum of intelligent opposition, we are mere surfs.
Sorry folks, call me what you will, but like my late mother always said, The Proof Is In The Pudding, and 0
(= zero) is looking pretty foreign to me. Something, evidently is Rotten In Denmark.

Carol, your post consist of one lie after another. In fact I couldn't find one true statement in your entire rant.

Elizabeth said "You cannot be POTUS if you hold dual citizenship at birth. It is explicitly ruled out in the American constitution"
Nope.

Terry, a nit? Obama ordered and produced a certified copy of his birth record. It is widely available on the internet. Conspiracy theorists alleged that it was fake. It has been thoroughly debunked. It plainly states that he was born in Honolulu.

In most states, when someone is adopted, the original birth certificate is sealed and a new one is issued with the adoptive parents names in place of the birth parents.

In cases of foreign adoptions, the state of Hawaii issues a record that says, ""Hawaii Certificate of Foreign Birth". It also says "This certificate is not evidence of United States citizenship for the child or the
parents named above."

http://gen.doh.hawaii.gov/sites/har/AdmRules1/11-120.pdf

This whole thing is ludicrous. Politifact, factcheck and snopes have all debunked this months ago. There is nothing that will satisfy any of you who keep clinging to this nonsense. You are given facts and evidence yet completely ignore it, then go back to the original question as though it was never addressed. I feel like I'm surrounded by Stepford wives. Yikes!

Obama already provided his official birth records that were issued to him by the state of Hawaii. Obama was born in Honolulu Aug 4, 1961/ As per the constitution, that makes him a natural-born citizen. The local newspaper announced his birth at that time as well. Jan 20 he will be POTUS.

I wonder what the next big Obama bombshell will be. Keep throwing until something sticks, right? ROFL

For those that are requesting a birth certificate, stop your whining. The Republicans LOST. Get over it. This man has been vetted. Try again in 4 yrs. Let the man do his job.

Hey--GET OVER IT ALREADY !!!!- Lets see how happy you and the Democrats are and how much you's all yell when your president elect gets in office. He promised the USA CHANGE--Well he is doing it,,, change back to Slick Willie's cronies...SEE IF YOU ARE BETTER OFF 4 YEARS FROM NOW !!!!!! You are probably one that believes that George W. was the first president to tell the USA about WMD when it was VP Gore (93) and Slick Willie in his 1998 State of the Union address,, listen to it on the net or was Slick Willie talking about different WMD?????,,,,,Clinton was the first US President to bomb Iraq too,, without approval from Congress,, Yea,, LOOK IT UP,,,,The only thing that is going to be hilarious is everyone laughing at you AND ALL WHO VOTED FOR BO!!!!

I should think that if the Russina Paper PRAVDA is questioning his eleigiblity then this would make for a National
Security issue then wouldn't it...because if it were to be found later that he was indeed a usurper than any treaties or agreements would be null and void...and we would be vulnerable to possible attack of any kind because they would believe that he is not an actual President....

Also..there is a youtube of Richardson saying that Obama is an immigrant...

Good Lord,
Does anyone actually believe that any candidate running for president has not been vetted by the Secret Service, FBI, etc. ad infinitum? Please stop wasting our time and continuing the divisiveness in this country. By the way, the fact that Clarence Thomas supports this speaks volumes doesn't it?

Posted by: Steve Hansmann | December 7, 2008 5:40 PM

December 07, 2008
Huh? What does Bill Richardson mean?

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/12/huh_what_does_bill_richardson.html

I am not surprised that they are trying every little thing they can to keep a black man out of that white house. I expected it really. have they ever given anything to a black man easy? NO!!! we gotta take it. aND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HE DID, WITH BLACK AND WHITE VOTES.
Everybody didn't vote for him, and anybody who knows their history knows that the supreme court have white supremacist and bigotry all up through it. Just because some black people have made it in don't mean that all the anti-black people have left. supreme court justices don't vote eachother in, the president does, and since we have never had a black president, and also considering the fact that we have had presidents who have been openly bigots, it's obvious that the Klan is alive and well not only in the supreme court, but the judicial system as a whole, the police force, and everything inbetween. We played by the rules, so we will end up victorious.

INdia-I remember as a teen seeing a large group of teens at a park fighting. There was one black teen fighting a white while all whites watched. I wanted to intervene until I listened to here is was a fight over car dents. Then a very large sized girl stepped in and the black boy said ' I don't hit women' and she started whoopin on him and I made my way thru the crowd and with so much respect for him I slapped her right in the face and shocked the crowd. I was a third her size and she was all over me, it was so bad but I never left the fight even after I was on the ground and we were rolling in the dirt. Some fights are worth it. They finally pulled her off me (thank God ha) and that was the end of it. I telll this story to say, that I haven't a mean spirited bone in my body towards blacks. However, if Obama is not legit in his run for office, he should step aside and allow the race to begin with those who are and that my dear is my final answer.

To all of you left wingers and Democrats out there who think this is not a big deal. Take it from a dyed in the wool African American Republican who did not vote for Obama. This issue is not a case of degrees. The question of Obama's "origin has been in question throughout the entire campaign. The press effectively made it a non issue. I currently live in the state of and I can say with absolute certainty that the copy of the birth certificate that Obama produced is, lets say questionable, no very questionable. I truly believe that if this were all come right winged witch hunt, the Obama people would have proven that beyond a shadow of a doubt and the willing suck up liberal media would be singing the results of that proof everyday for eight years. The fact that Obama himself has not put this issue to rest is the most striking of all. Talk about character. I the man is not legitimate than he has to go. No new rules of law made on his behalf. Remember the first paragraph of the oath of office and the sentence, "To protect and defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic...."

Well, looks like only one case left before SCOTUS now, before the the usurper unconstitutionally makes his first royal step into the oval office. Hope all his supporters love the new change for the past, as in failed communism all across Europe and Asia. When you finally wake up to find you're eating rotten cheese instead of caviar, somehow, I don't think you're GOING TO GET OVER IT very soon. Oh, well, doomed to relive the past, we are - Roosevelt, Carter, Slick Willy, and now, Zero.

We were frustrated when the Supreme Court took the 2000 Gore vs. Bush case and your frustrated now that the Supreme Court is not taking the case. Now you know how we felt in 2000-miserable. Obama will be a good president, give him a chance.

I cannot believe the depths of self-delusion by so many people. I taught students for nearly 40 years and no measure of proof, for example, that the sun rose in the east and set in the west would have satisfied some of them. They would have had to taste the wine at Cana or pre-screened the blind man in biblical times, and even then, they would be doubters. No manner of proof will ever satisfy the self-deluded here. They see conspiracies in every corner of the world and their paranoia rules their minds. But at least their fixation with what they believe is Constitutional crisis allows them to waste their time and money (in support of tilting at these windmills) in a way that will always be doomed to disappointment, followed by a new paranoia, followed by new disappointment. A wise professor once said in a class almost a half century ago, "There is the proper function of the law and the bastard function of the law. The proper function supports common sense. The bastard function is evident in the actions of those who distort and twist the law to negate common sense." Those bringing these frivolous suits know in their hearts they are frivolous, but the money they can siphon from the weak-minded in pursuing them is real.

We already let the Supreme Court decide one election. Look how well that turned out.

Yes, look how well the last election turned out, when SCOTUS decided that hanging chads weren't going to keep George Bush from rightfully becoming president. Well, lets see now: Our heads are still on our shoulders and not in some Middle East museum display case with a plaque that reads The Punishment Of The Great White Devil Infidels.
The safety that we have been afforded by the Stupid Bush Clan have allowed me to enjoy the company of my beautiful wife and baby daughter without wondering when some sick terrorist is going to blow their limbs off.
And the the Stupid Bush Clan has made it possible for the politically naive and bombastic socialists to speak freely on this thread in platitudes about their disdain for the moral fiber and Judeo-Christian beliefs enshrined in the U.S. Constitution without a dull rusty blade at their necks.
Though we may have to live with the results of this suspect election, personally, I'm just not quite ready to put that Mantel Of Power at the feet of Mr. Zero and his fantastic friends in Illinois. His (Zero's) ilk, Gov.Blagojevich and the like, make me just want to cling all the more to the ideals of George Bush, even if our current present doesn't always measure up. But he sure can hold a candle to the darkness the Socialists will soon bring to congress, the White House, and maybe to SCOTUS as well. God help us all.

Summary statement: Obama is the President-elect. There will never be any way the Right will overturn the results of this election, based on their fixation with his birth certificate. They can write, rant, twist facts, fabricate, deny to their hearts' content but in the end, they will never, ever prevail. They remind me of the guy who keeps banging his head against the wall, who when asked why, responds, "It feels so good when I stop."

Oh please, I don't think I can't take the laughter.
Summary Statement: looks like Zero the Foreigner has done himself in, unless they figure out a way of taking out Fitzgerald and Gov.Blagojevich at the same time. Appearently, Bodester, you haven't an inkling as to how business is done in Chicago. The birds are going to sing loud and clear, and it's going to go something like this: O, O,O,O,O, Zero's gotta go, thought we all were fools, to hell! he broke the rules.
Fixation! - And all those other misguided accusations. I think not.
There is a God and his hammer is hanging over the Socialist's head where there should be Mistletoe.

Others on this site think Barack Obama should not be President, and/or think he'll not be a good one. Not me.

My reason for concern had nothing to do with his being a Democrat (which I often vote for) or African-American (I've been somewhat of an activist at times). It had to do with the executive experience I prefer to see in a POTUS; I see a critical need for an organizational turnaround, and for someone who is savvy in the area of economics and financial matters. I didn't back either McCain or Obama in the end.

Now that he has the job, I hope he is up to it, and I will be a huge supporter as he tries to do the "right things" for all Americans.

ALL of that has nothing to do with my lingering suspicion that there is some reason so much of Obama's personal information is still "protected". Do we not all agree that there IS a birth certificate, one filled out when he was born, and that it has not yet been revealed?

No one has yet explained why Obama has not seen to it that the "authentic" and "original" document, the one the State has custody of in a vault, has not been offered for public view. Only Barack can authorize that, and he has not chosen to do so. Why might that be? I would not even speculate. But instead of providing the document that would trump every doubter, Obama has law firms arguing that those asking in court for the "original', are tossed out on technicalities ("lack of standing", etc).

Simple question: Doesn't that seem a bit "odd"?

The Supreme Court not taking the case doesn't mean the matter is settled. It will be settled when Barack Obama decides he wants it settled.

I second that. Batty old Stevens, the wicked witch of the east Ginzburg, and Mr. Foreign Law Takes Precedence Over The Us Constitution Breyer have all got to go if SCOTUS is to positively effect the economy, if that's possible.
Cherio

If anyone thinks this issue doesn't matter to people, you're 100% wrong. One week before election day, I was ready to vote for Obama when I stumbled on all these so-called 'conspiracy theories.' This one looks a lot like all the others, EXCEPT Obama can't answer for himself with real documentation, and furthermore his behavior seems pretty incriminating. You can choose to ignore that, but I can't. Integrity matters in the small stuff. Why else was everyone so ticked back when Clinton lied? I guarantee, the nation would throw Obama to the dogs if this came up in his 7th year. He's only being defended now because of the fear of the Bush administration's doctrines being extended any longer. It is always better to deal in truth and light, and that goes for both parties. SHOW THE REAL DOCUMENT. Or confess, and defend the office and the Constitution by stepping down.

Without a modicum of emotionalism, brilliant observation, Jonathan.
Few if any on any blog can offer such a salient, down to earth, disputation.
Night all.

Nancy, the correct spelling of the word you used incorrectly is "denounced", but the correct word for your argument would be "renounced". Why do you think anyone would be convinced by an ignorant and child-like argument such as yours?

‘GetOverIt’, the correct spelling of the word you don’t understand is “constitutional”, and it is clear to anyone with common sense that you are a classic example of a conspiracy theorist, who does not know what actual facts are in a court of law. Go to law school and practice law for 36 years, then maybe you can arrive at an informed opinion on constitutional matters beyond what you think the founding fathers intended as fair regarding your candidate. Also, in 36 years in the court room I don’t believe I’ve ever seen a medical doctor testify about the validity of a government document for any argument. The reason medical doctors don’t give such testimony is a lack of any kind of expert status on the subject of forgery, even in Hawaii (you misspelled Honolulu or made up a city, I’m not sure which is more likely with a moron like you).

Testy, testy. Beat up on a woman, will you?
36 years in the courtroom, and all you can muster as an insult is "Moron"!
"Rotgut Dingleberry" would have been more creative, but, since Nancy is indubitably veridical in her astute conclusions, spelling correct or not in her post, and refreshingly simple I might add, it would be most aprapos to apply the forgoing vituperation to any attorney, especially an experienced unschooled-in-Constituional-Apology "bombastic one", if the later is not an oxymoron (no pun intended).

Liberals! Aren't they just comically shrill.

Buck up guys and gals: Double O Zero will yet incriminate himself, unless of course he's as clever as the devil, but let's not give him that much credit now - he's already twisting and turning in the Blagojevich web.

Tootle Loot

Correction to my last post, line 11 and12.
... unschooled-in-constitutional-apology egghead-one, the later being an oxymoron in my opinion.

Produce a BIRTH CERTIFICATE (not a certificate of live birth) and it all goes away. At least McCain provided his immediatly to quash any questions. Obama having his "birth records" sealed by a Hawaiian court casts doubt on Obama's transparency and willingness to dismiss claims brought against him by American citizens. What is he hiding?

My kids need to have a BIRTH CERTIFICATE to play little league to verify legal citizenship. CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH does not prove being born in the US and being in the US legally.

In Hawaii, a Certificate of Live Birth resulting from hospital documentation, including a signature of an attending physician, is DIFFERENT from a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth. For births prior to 1972, a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth was the result of the UNCORROBORATED TESTIMONY of one witness and was not generated by a hospital.

I am so glad to see people are still interested in this vital issue (no pun intended).

The Supreme Court, however, will not act until the political process has run its course, and that may be after Obama is inaugurated. But the issue will not go away and other lawsuits will be filed. It's a reasonable question to ask, and I'm not giving up.

I called the secretary of state in my home state to inquire about whether the qualifications were checked of candidates and was told that the state relied on the word of the DNC.

So for all of you who allege that this issue would have come up before, you should be aware that nobody has questioned him or demanded documentation from him. Had they done so, don't you think they would have called a press conference and happily put this matter to rest?

They are counting on our being airheads, but they are overconfident.

The people of American deserve an answer.

This is serious, folks. Very serious.

Have you noticed in todays speeches, that Obama has been claiming we have a "new" constitution and a "new" union? What does he mean? Is he setting the stage for the proof to come up that he does not qualify according the constitution, therefore, "we cannot put the country through this etc."