Holder: 'Waterboarding is torture'

This man is tainted. He says he made some mistakes. And believe me they were whoopers,Mark Rich is still a fugitive. How about all the money he made on oil deals when Iran was holding Americans hostage. This man lacks good judgement, Of course we have to look who his boss was at time of these decisions. I don't remember who the attorney general was under Jimmy Carter but they pardoned the men that tried to kill President Truman. I will never forgive Carter for his poor judgement. So lets not make the same mistakes over and over again.

Did he mention the work he did for Blagojevich? Did anyone ask???
Waterboarding is not torture, we use to do it all the time as children, it's called a "swirly" when you get it in high-school the difference is kid use toilet water.

Paul, I have no idea what you are talking about. Last time I checked, presidents issue pardons, not deputy attorney generals. Bush has already issued some doozie pardons and he hasn't even gotten around to all of his friends. Holder never worked for Carter so I have no idea what you are going on about there ... I'm guessing whatever it is, you heard it on Limbaugh.

Holder is doing great in his hearings. I'm glad to hear he is right on torture and is not afraid to investigate past crimes. He will truly stand up for the people.

Holder's public expression of regret over the Rick snafu and his being introduced by John Warner certainly caught the angry conservative crowd off guard in the Senate today. They were nowhere as tough as they had promised before he came into the room.

http://www.political-buzz.com/

Progress already.

Thank you Bessie. You are perfect example of the complete ignorance that runs rampant throughout the ever-diminishing ranks of Bush apologists.

Waterboarding has consistently been described as torture by those, unlike you, who have even the slightest clue what they're talking about.

Do us all a favor and go lick a lightpole.

Torture is having Clinton lackys being recycled.

Anyone ask him what cash for pardons might constitute? Very rich!

I thought we were about change? At least that is what was campaigned for by the left. Yet all they want to do is make excuses for what happens. Who cares if wateroarding is torture. These people threaten our country. They are not afforded the same rights as our citizens and anyone believes that they are is stupid. If someone breaks into your house and you legally own a gun and that person is about to harm you or your famile, are you going to shoot him or offer him a fair trial to determine whether he broke the law when he entered your house? Well, that house is our country and I say whatever it takes is fair game.

Enough said

I thought we were about change? At least that is what was campaigned for by the left. Yet all they want to do is make excuses for what happens. Who cares if wateroarding is torture. These people threaten our country. They are not afforded the same rights as our citizens and anyone believes that they are is stupid. If someone breaks into your house and you legally own a gun and that person is about to harm you or your family, are you going to shoot him or offer him a fair trial to determine whether he broke the law when he entered your house? Well, that house is our country and I say whatever it takes is fair game.

Enough said

Many experts say waterboarding IS NOT TORTURE. Either way, it IS VERY EFFECTIVE. When the new Administration catches the next KSM, will it be willing to use similar methods ? If not, what will their explanation be if they fail to prevent the next WTC ? P.S. Waterboarding, when employed by skilled interogators causes no permanent damage. Many Military volunteers have gone through it unscathed.

Waterboarding is torture + Cheney admitted approving waterboarding + Nobody is above the law = Cheney in handcuffs

Therefore - arrest Darth at the inauguration.

HOORAY for the integrity of the
UNITED STATES !

Torture is having Clinton lackys being recycled.

Posted by: senator dirksen | January 15, 2009 1:39 PM

Best expresion yet of the upcoming Obama era.
PS Even better than CHANGE.

Louis:

Who are the "experts" who say waterboarding is not torture??? It has constantly been shown that when you do this, or any other form of torture to a prisoner, they will tell you whatever you want to know in order to get you to stop doing it.

I like waterboarding almost as much as snowboarding. Not sure what all the fuss is about.

Waterboarding, when employed by skilled interogators causes no permanent damage. Many Military volunteers have gone through it unscathed.

Posted by: Louis | January 15, 2009 1:59 PM

More tough guy talk from the chickenhawk Repuglican crowd...

Really? Waterboarding isn't torture?

How about if we come over to your house and spend the day waterboarding you then toughguy? I'll bet we could get you to start spouting off Democratic talking points in less than a minute.

Inauguration Day - Jan 20, 2009:

Congratulations, President Obama.

And with that, President Obama turns to Eric Holder and says "sic 'em" !

Eric Holder then turns to Former President George W. Bush and says "Mr. President, you are under arrest for the charge of Treason to the United States of America".

There's a commotion at the edge of the crowd on the podium as Dick Cheney is frog-marched onto the stage by the FBI agents who retrieved him from his "undisclosed location". "Mr. Vice-President, you too are under arrest on the charge of Treason".

"Take them away" !

It'll be good to have a competent government that believes in the rule of law again.

All U.S. special forces go through waterboarding as part of their training.

Another interesting tidbit in addition to the criminal Marc Rich pardon is the criminal pardon of FALN terrorists that Holder helped happen.

Holder apologizes for his "mistakes." Geithner says he made "mistakes." Richardson made "mistakes." Gee, this administratition is making tons of mistakes and it hasn't even been in power yet! I also don't see the corrupt media making a big issue of these mistakes like they do when Bush said he made a mistake.

Many Military volunteers have gone through it unscathed.

Posted by: Louis | January 15, 2009 1:59 PM

The difference is the uncertainty. Military volunteers know they're not going to be allowed to die. Same cannot be said for a captive.

THIS is the change we have be waiting for?

I find it both hilarious and predictable that the very same Republicans who endorsed and voted for ALBERTO (torture is ok and so are partisan legal hitjobs) GONZALES, are now babbling on and on about the Rich pardon...

Congratulations Attorney General Eric Holder - after eight years of Bush lawlessness it will be nice to have a top lawyer who actually believes in upholding the rule of law.

Holder is a TEAMMEMBER of a Political Mafia. I was in a family for more than 26 years who is also involved. However, both the family I was in and Holder have a common link - Chiquita Co. Holder represented them and was able to get them off with only a slap on the hand. The reason should be clear when you learn more about what this is. The family I was in laundered Drug and Gun Running Money for Chaquita and Drummond and others for years. They also brag about being a CIA Asset and joined in the later 70's with laundering for a CIA operation involving Agrentina's Dirty War.

Meet the family:
Mexico drug plane used for US 'rendition' flights: report
Sep 4, 2008
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5j6QonBKKMo2gw1e3ql-xUcQEZbVg

Cocaine plane trail is open challenge for Obama administration - January 11, 2009
Clyde O'Connor
http://narcosphere.narconews.com/notebook/bill-conroy/2009/01/cocaine-plane-trail-open-challenge-obama-administration

Clyde O'Connor is my ex-sister-in-law's brother and her husband is my ex-wife's brother. The two of them discussed openly about starting their new business venture in Florida right in front of me and guess who assisted them with preparing their business papers - Obama. While he was working at the law firm that Rezko invited him to work at a few years earlier. Tell me, how could Rezko invite Obama to work at a law Firm and he doesn't even own it? Someone needs to look over this law firm.

To my dismay, my youngest son is involved with Rezko. It's a family business and it's huge.

Holder is a huge mistake and if he is the AG expect worse trouble and our DOJ will completely go criminal.

Marty Didier
Northbrook, IL

Waterboarding, when employed by skilled interogators causes no permanent damage. Many Military volunteers have gone through it unscathed.

Posted by: Louis | January 15, 2009 1:59 PM

"More tough guy talk from the chickenhawk Repuglican crowd...

Really? Waterboarding isn't torture?

How about if we come over to your house and spend the day waterboarding you then toughguy? I'll bet we could get you to start spouting off Democratic talking points in less than a minute."
Posted by: dano | January 15, 2009 2:47 PM

And this post is nothing more than name-calling and personal threats by the supposedly pacifist left.

Torture is having Clinton lackys being recycled.

Posted by: senator dirksen | January 15, 2009 1:39 PM

Best expresion yet of the upcoming Obama era.
PS Even better than CHANGE.

Posted by: Inky | January 15, 2009 2:28 PM

------

Which part of the Clinton years didn't you like? The Peace or the Prosperity?

PS - Congrats Inky, you spelled all of your words correctly today!

Bessie, Larry,

You have lost your way.

Water boarding is the same as a swirly? Something that is a urban legend, that never really happened except in a movie?

And enemies don't have rights? Read a little book called 'The Good War'; Terkel.

A former OSS man explains how he was in charge of interrogating former Nazi concentration camp officers. At one point he says, 'of course we were not allowed to lay a finger on them'.
This was written in about 1980.

Change is here, clueless. It's called 'water boarding IS torture'.

You torture supporters are disgusting. You have ruined America's good name.

And Johnny Torture would be the best judge of mistakes, he being Bush's chief apologist.

Whoa, that the "corrupt media" should make a big deal out of Bush's 2 Trillion Dollar Bogus War that's killed hundreds of thousands and accomplished nothing. And what's the big deal over W's overseeing the worst crisis of the World Economy since The Great Depression? And, so what if Jr. let little ole New Orleans drown, just a $200 billion misstep and a few hundred of the "wicked" drowned, right Johnny?

Now, Clinton being involved with some hanky panky with Lewinsky---that's the kind of thing that should bring the world to a stop, hey CJD? Not the meltdown of the U.S. and World Economy, not wars on every front, not the erosion of our rights under The Constitution. Lord help us if the Neocon cretins ever get the reigns again.

Holder is a TEAMMEMBER of a Political Mafia
Marty Didier
Northbrook, IL

Posted by: Marty Didier | January 15, 2009 3:21 PM

Gee Marty, I didn't hear you complaining when the Repubs were singing the praises of Alberto "torture/US attorney firing scandal" Gonzales...

I get a kick out it when Wingnuts believe the propaganda that Rush and Faux News give them. This is exactly why they lost the last two elections by a landslide.

Inauguration Day - Jan 20, 2009:

Congratulations, President Obama.

And with that, President Obama turns to Eric Holder and says "sic 'em"
Yes his first asignment will be to rid the Chicaho area of Patrick Fitzgerald so the Ilinois Democrat Honchos can breathe better.

name-calling and personal threats by the supposedly pacifist left.

Posted by: Grouch | January 15, 2009 3:35 PM

This isn't your daddys Democratic party, little JohnnyD.

The Republican Party is terrified by the idea of Eric Holder as Attorney General. Of all of the appointments to Obama’s Cabinet, this is the one that fills the Republicans with horror and dread. They have been working overtime to block this appointment. Since Holder was nominated, they have been defining him in the press and framing the issues in ways that they think they could use to take him out.

They'll bring up any any nonsense they can throw up in the air in the hopes of killing this appointment.

Why?

The answer is simple: Holder will investigate the political corruption in Washington.

For the modern Republican Party, an active and righteous Department of Justice prosecuting the crimes of the Bush years is a nightmare that fills them with dread.

name-calling and personal threats by the supposedly pacifist left.

Posted by: Grouch | January 15, 2009 3:35 PM

This isn't your daddys Democratic party, little JohnnyD.

Posted by Posted by: Billo | January 15, 2009 4:28 PM

Who is "little Johnny D"?

Give me a break. Waterboarding is part of the Navy Seal training. If Demi Moore can handle it so can Al Qaida. It is the beheading that Al Qaida does that should be considered torture and murder. They don't treat their prisoners with kids gloves. They are terrorists. Keep that in mind and remind yourself of what they did to the U.S. on 9/11. It could happen again.

Give me a break. Waterboarding is part of the Navy Seal training. If Demi Moore can handle it so can Al Qaida. It is the beheading that Al Qaida does that should be considered torture and murder. They don't treat their prisoners with kids gloves. They are terrorists. Keep that in mind and remind yourself of what they did to the U.S. on 9/11. It could happen again.

Posted by: Jo | January 15, 2009 5:36 PM

When Conservatives are in charge things break, incompetence is useful, debts skyrocket and cynicism is rewarded. Failure of government is the goal and a profit center for the weasels of the Right.

We could all point to countless examples of this intentional destruction over the last eight years and it is hard to select which bit of dirty work was the worst. For me it has been the willful destruction of the rule of law and the Department of Justice.

This is the part of the Government that has a duty to put the Constitution and the Laws of America first. This is the place where Justice should trump Party, where integrity trumps loyalty, honor trumps political embarrassment and fairness trumps political vendettas. Under George W. Bush the rule of Law was tuned inside out and grotesquely perverted.

Bush and Cheney led the way. Ashcroft, Gonzales and Mukasey each helped to pervert the rule of law in America. And Congress gave this parade of Constitutional destruction the right-of-way. Protecting this destruction of our Constitution and laws were men like Senator Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania and the rest of his Republican caucus. Their blind eye to the corruption of the Bush years makes their attack on the nomination of Eric Holder drip with hypocrisy and fear.

For 5 minutes 3 Terrorists were scared into thinking they were drowning- then, much to the left's chagrin, gave mucho information on active, planned attacks to kill more innocents...Attacks, which were then stopped by brave men and women risking their own lives inthe process..

These are the same guys who, months before the waterboarding, killed thousands of men, women and children - beheaded innocent journalists for propaganda purposes, and set bombs off in crowded places claiming a divine "right" to do so.

These guys weren't tortured- they were strongly encouraged to start acting human again...

The reality is that by all standards, except the Bush Administration, waterboarding has been considered torture and illegal, including the Geneva Convention; the US has prosecuted others for using it on Americans in WWII and since. It is right to again make clear that the US does not torture, other than on fictional TV series such as "24."

Grouch,
I'm not a pacifist. I was in the Army.
You have to stop believing your own agit-prop.

"Waterboarding, when employed by skilled interogators causes no permanent damage. Many Military volunteers have gone through it unscathed.
Posted by: Louis | January 15, 2009 1:59 PM"

Louis,
And the Gestapo, NKVD/KGB, Pinochett's people, the Shaw, all prided themselves at being able to torture confessions without leaving marks.

You people are beyond all reason.

GWB has made America a nation that tortures people. Like it or not, he did that.

Beyond that, he got 5k Americans killed in Iraq based on lies. It was his vanity war.

Scenario;

John D, or Paulo or Larry, or Bessie and hopefully 'Inky' get audited by the Obama IRS.

They are put in a stress position, make you face Mecca and pray, issue you a medical card, then water-board you for two days at the re-education camp.

Remember, your are being 'not tortured'.

Jo,

The Navy Seals? The Navy Seals?

Message to clueless America;

A Navy Seal would kill his grandma if so ordered.

Repeat; A Navy Seal would kill his own grandma if so ordered.

Regarding the Seals.

Conservatives like to conflate the equation that anyone in a uniform = a hero, and should be worshiped like Jesus with a machine gun.

Special Forces 'folks' are pretty much controlled or trained psychopathic killers.

Sorry, but it's true.

They enjoy close up, hands on killing. I will even grant you the point that sometimes,,, they are necessary.

But they are not heros. They are paid psychopathic killers in a uniform, sometimes. We basically give them medals, and flatter them with praise so they won't kill us.

Grow up America.

Already, the next Attorney General is fudging up the law. When he said waterboarding is torture, that's accurate. But when he clearly implied he won't hold anybody accountable for the torture, that's not only immoral, it's also injust and contrary to the law.
Holder is parroting one of the few errors that Barack Obama is in the process of making: that they are not going to prosecute anyone in the Bush administration for torture, for destroying constitutional rights, for politicising the justice department, or for waging illegal war.
If I was the next attorney general, I'd have the whole Bush bunch hauled off to the Hague to face war crimes charges.

Mo,

You can't reason with the radical right. These are the same dopes who don't realize that 24 is a FICTIONAL SHOW.

The current Republican party is made up of doughy middle aged couch potatoes who fantasize about what they are not.

Watch, as college Republicans talk tough about Iraq and then make pathetic excuses about why they themselves can't sign up for the military.

This video never gets old:
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFGit_tZDqs

Another point of view- some of the folks that jumped to their deaths from the WTC actually were falling for a longer time than it took to "torture" one of the three terrorists- terrorists that people are wringing their hands over in this forum...

Demi Moore, Jo?
And I suppose you think "24" is a documentary. Give us a break.

Look at the callousness in some of these posts. Americans have NEVER condoned torture, but now many of them DO. These people do not sound like ANY American I knew as a young girl in the 50's. It's a whole new breed, and one that thrives on malevolence.

Has it occurred to anyone that people who are this callous on this subject are also probably callous in their personal lives? It isn't a subject-specific trait, you know. Of course, we shouldn't go easy on terrorist prisoners, but within the constraints that govern CIVILIZED PEOPLE.

As for "swirling" in high school, speak for yourself, Bessie. What school did YOU go to, ye gods.

Leaving lasting effects is not required to label something as torture. Any dolt knows that. There are modes of torture designed specifically to insure nobody can prove they'd tortured someone. Waterboarding is one of them.

What has happened to the basic compassion and integriity of our OWN citizens? And a large percentage of them are religious people, too - in fact, I'd guess that most of them are.

Religion is supposed to help us live up to the best in ourselves. Sometimes it does this. But these new cults are actively corroding our integrity, our generic (better) morality, our consciences and most of the other positive human attributes. We need to shut them out, shun them, and educate people about the slimy motives of these religious groups' leaders, who seek to use mindblown congregants to gain leadership in a religious state.

We may never recover as a nation as long as we continue to churn out people like this. It is THEY who will destroy America. We must fear for our security, but the worst threats are those within. Neocons, who want a fascist-elitist America. Whacked-out TOTALLY POLITICAL absolutist cults, who want a religious state. Terrorists, too, but they don't have the access that these other people do.

We need to reclaim America - an America where not ONE single citizen thinks it's okay to torture.

Regarding the Seals.

Conservatives like to conflate the equation that anyone in a uniform = a hero, and should be worshiped like Jesus with a machine gun.

Special Forces 'folks' are pretty much controlled or trained psychopathic killers.

Sorry, but it's true.

They enjoy close up, hands on killing. I will even grant you the point that sometimes,,, they are necessary.

But they are not heros. They are paid psychopathic killers in a uniform, sometimes. We basically give them medals, and flatter them with praise so they won't kill us.

Grow up America.
Posted by: Allajoke | January 15, 2009 7:13 PM

This post is a joke.

When you're tucked into bed by your mommy every night, these guys are protecting your butt.

Another lib who has no clue about the real world.

Most of your Responders are very, very Negative anytime a issue covers important politicians, entertainers, or RACE. The negatives were wrong on Burris; he prevailed. Wrong on Obama; he has prevailed. Wrong on Eric Holder; he will prevail. Everything on Holder has been taken out of context. My God, the man was the Deputy, and the Deputy and the AG appointed by a President generally follows the Mandates of that President-"Hello" Is anyone listening? This is exactly why, Bush's, Gonzales, did the things he done, that got him removed. The Republican powers wanted him to investigate politicans they didn't like etc., Did Gonzales want to do that personally...I don't think so. At issue, is Responders don't look at the facts, they are just negative about a person because of his RACE, Politics. You can see it in their Response. It has come out recently that AG Patrick Fitzgerald is "tainted", and has been targeted those he was given permission to indict; and, when he didn't follow that script, he was called back to the White House. Do any of you recall when after Gonzales was being investigated by the Judiciary it was discovered that Patrick was one of the AG's they were considering letting go because he had zealously prosecuted Libby? Look at what happen to our Governor, in my view, Politics. He is as guilty as any politicians, they all in some measure "pay to play".

Bill/Jeff,
And have you noted the new 'spinpoints' of the cons.?
1. Obama's presidency has already failed.
2. The current crises is all his fault.

They have completely reversed the 'blame Clinton' theme of 'Blame Clinton' in the past, to 'Blame Obama' in the future.

Pathetic.

Another point of view- some of the folks that jumped to their deaths from the WTC actually were falling for a longer time than it took to "torture" one of the three terrorists- terrorists that people are wringing their hands over in this forum...

Posted by: heartburn | January 15, 2009 9:27 PM

Well, that makes it ok then.

The radical right, the ulitmate home of moral relatism. "As long as I do evil for less time than the enemy, it's perfectly ok."

heartburn, like most conservatives has no real moral compass. For him the concpots of right and wrong are completey meaningless. He has no touchstone of morality. He bases his morality on race, religion and nationality. As long as you aren't white, Christian or American, any action is perfectly aceptable as long as he thinks it betters the lot of Whites, Christians, and Americans. He believes in the law of the jungle. Nothing is beyond the pale as long as his tribe comes out on top.

heartburn would have been one of the germans who during the second world war would have fully supported the Nazi governments actions, no matter how evil, in the twisted belief that it protected the "good germans" from the evil Communists and Jews as the government told him. He would have had no qualms with the atrocities of the SS, as he believed they protected him from the eastern slavic hordes as the government told him. He would happily have turned in his Jewish neighbors to protect the German people from "contamination" as the government told him That's what the lack of moral compass in conservatives gives you, people like heartburn, who are willing to accept any immorality to save them from their weak minded fear. With no moral compass, he simply cannot identify the road to hell.

Who has the unrealistic view of special forces?

The conservatives here seem to like the Hollywood version, so let me make a few examples to illustrate just what the Seals, Delta F, SAS, and other elite killing units actually are not.

They are not;
1. Sgt. York
2. Mr. Roberts
3. Pvt. Ryan
4. Pvt. Joker or Rafterman

They are:
1. Col. Kurtz

Holder's comments surprised me, only because he has done what Obama never does - paint himself into a corner. Here's how - according to Holder - waterboarding is illegal, and it is undisputed that the Administration authorized and the CIA utilized waterboarding. Does that not create a duty for the new Attorney General to investigate and prosecute anyone involved in what he has declared illegal activity? Obama has made fairly clear (or as close to clear as His Vagueness ever gets) that he has no appetite for investigating Bush, et al. So now that Holder has the far left foaming at the mouth over their dream of seeing Dick Cheney in handcuffs, how is he going to explain it when he does nothing? He'll either have to backtrack from his words here, or basically admit he is failing to do his duty in investigating what he believes was criminal activity.

Posted by: Herbie H. | January 16, 2009 3:32 PM

Bush will let them off the hook when he gives everyone involved in the War on Terror a blanket pardon on January 19.

Swamp Scoreboard:
---------
Torture is wrong. Always - 1
heartburn - 0

I don't care if it's torture, war is war. The strong survive, the weak do not. It appears all of your viewpoints are "the U.S. has never condoned torture" haha ok but it did condone dropping 2 nuclear bombs on civilian targets, and carpet bombing cities and villages all across Europe. It did condone killing off large portions of Native Americans for land. Get over yourselves, America isn't a saintly country, never has been.