Israel: 'Direct, hard blow againt Hamas'

Those who want Obama to act now want him to ignore the attacks on Israeli territory because only a few people are killed. Hostilities need to end and Hamas needs to be militarily impaired in order for their influence on the Arab middle to be able to negotiate with the Israeli middle.

-israel did the right thing -Rockets_Invade- expecially with Our new President coming into office, can't tell what kind of CHANGE he will make.

The last time, Israel was surprised by a newly well organized, disciplined Hamas, coordinating their effort with cheap readily available digital communications; and of course as ruthless as ever (ie, ready and willing to use Palestinian civillians as human shields).
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I think Israel is repeating the same mistake.

... Brooke Anderson, chief national security spokesperson for the Obama transition team. "There is one president at a time, and we intend to respect that."
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Great answer. Israel should do what any sovereign nation, other than France, would do in this circumstance. Liberals and the Media Heads delight in proclaiming that this will not work. We shall see. Taking in incoming rocket attacks day after day is not much of a workable arrangement either. NO ONE ever wants to offer an answer for that cowardly piece of Hamas work. And what does the Jimmy Carter memo say? Why is it taking the totally worthless United Nations so long to deliver their predictable condemnation of Israel? Did their mimeograph break down too?

Neo-Con Django sez let the a** kicking play out. Appeasement fails everywhere that it is tried. Liberalism will only assure YOUR annihilation. We will find out what does work. One of the Hamas cowards even sounded like a Liberal on CNN - "We don't have tanks / We don't have armor / We don't have air power / We don't have an Infantry". Liberals don't do very much pre-planning either. The knuckleheads should have given that some thought before they set upon this course of terrorism.

Liberals, including those that work directly for Hamas, will work to get everybody killed . And where the heck are the logic-challenged Liberals now? Where is the ignominious Jimmy Carter? Is today the day that they have been waiting for.

The media is reporting that 460 people have died in Gaza and that at least a quarter of them are civilians. The media also is reporting that 4 people have died in Israel.

This sounds disproportinate to me but Israel does have the best public relation machine in the world and therefore I would imagine it will be sold as a justified response and the media will agree.

The word “blockade” comes so easily, so cleanly, without any feeling for what it reality means. It is one of that class of terms you find dissected in Orwell’s great essay, “Politics and the English Language.” It truly means here an entire population is abused and tortured for months because it voted the wrong way.

I do think most of us, if treated in this fashion in our homes by a foreign power, would use any means at hand of protesting and fighting back, even if that fighting is hopeless, as it is.

The blockade has nothing to do with homemade rockets. Those rockets long predate the Hamas government.

And defenders of Israel’s bloody excesses insist on muddying the water by saying that the rockets are the reason for this mass murder, for that is just what it is, mass murder.

Israel's secret service, Shin Bet, quietly subsidized Hamas for years, deliberately creating a future competitor for Fatah. It clearly never feared Hamas.

Hamas prospered. Why? Partly because it served many humanitarian needs in Palestine with perhaps ninety percent of its work being humanitarian, but also, of course, because of the endless, grinding oppression of Israel’s Apartheid.

When Hamas finally was elected in a cleaner election than that of George Bush, it was also in large part because the poor people of Palestine had become exhausted by the corruption of Fatah. Just as Americans with Obama, Palestinians wanted a fresh start with some people that seemed to be doing something right.

Yes, Hamas mouths anti-Israel stuff, but so what? Israel is full of people saying ugly anti-Arab stuff. It is not hard to find a number of disturbing quotes by fairly prominent Israelis calling Palestinians “roaches” and “vermin.” There are also prominent advocates of simply driving all the Palestinians under an artillery barrage across the Jordan River. Others are on record as saying they should be “eliminated,” whatever was meant by that chilling word.

As in international affairs generally – what someone like Nixon or Bush has said of Russia or Cuba – I do not focus on such statements, and when a government does focus on them, you know it is being dishonest. Governments and politicians everywhere make statements that do not reflect their actual behavior. And just so, Hamas.

It is always actions that count. So what have Israel’s actions been?

Israel immediately said an elected government was a bunch of terrorists.

Israel refused even to talk to the government although that government indicated on more than one occasion it was willing to talk to Israel and to work towards some kind of modus vivendi.

You really do not have to like your neighbor to get along with him or her. Peace requires that, often. It is the common experience across much of humanity. And with so much at stake, you might expect Israel to show some slight flexibility and even generosity. Look at the immense sacrifice of Anwar El Sadat for peace.

And it was not Arabs who gave the world the Holocaust, the event that gave the final impetus to the foundation of a state that had been talked and written about for a century previously. Yet it was Arabs who were made to pay the price with land and homes and olive groves that go back countless centuries. Now they continue to pay with abuse and severely oppressive conditions.

After all, events around Israel’s creation as a state – especially including the bloody terror of gangs like the Stern, Irgun, and Lehi - did create the circumstances of these unfortunate people, as every honest Israeli knows. So why not some flexibility and generosity towards future peace? But we never see that from Israel. We only see one-sided conditions set even for talks decade after decade, the one-sided conditions today including the arbitrary removal of an elected government.

But Israel wasn’t satisfied with just ignoring and calling an elected government names: it arrested illegally a major part of that government, literally kidnapping them. Likely, they have been tortured for information, as Israel has practiced torture on prisoners from its founding. And it boldly assassinated many other members of Hamas using Hellfire missiles from its jets, killing scores civilian bystanders in the process.

These arrests are of course on top of something like 9,000 illegally-held Palestinians in Israeli prisons, Israel releasing a token couple of hundred every once in a great while, with great fanfare and publicity, to bolster the public image of Abbas and a party which was rejected in free elections.

Hamas, of course, achieved precisely the early promise of Israel's secret service by ending up fighting Fatah. The events weakened the voice of Palestinians and gave Israel fresh themes in its ceaseless efforts against Palestinian nationalism.

You must remember, Israel has never really given up the dream of Greater Israel. As late as the Camp David talks with Jimmy Carter, the then Prime Minister of Israel, an old Irgun terrorist himself, kept bringing it up as a needed goal of Israel’s, and there are many quotes on record by famous Israelis supporting this clearly destructive goal.

Of course, were Israel simply to seize these areas, something it is perfectly capable of, there would be worldwide revulsion and rejection. But the impulse nevertheless is undeniably there, always quietly working away in Israel’s plans, policies, and negotiating postures. Greater Israel includes Gaza, the West Bank, Southern Lebanon, and a slice of Syria. It is based on interpretations from ancient texts, there being no maps worthy of the name from two millennia ago.

Once Hamas was left with only Gaza – a weak and vulnerable place, effectively the world’s largest outdoor prison camp, surrounded by fence, and with no ability to receive anything by land, air, or sea except with Israel’s permission – the stage was set for today’s events. Hamas in Gaza was ready to be strangled.

The leader of Fatah, Abbas - a weak and ineffectual man whose party, in fact, lost an election but “leads” and is the only figure Israel even pretends to talk to – was left in the West Bank with Israeli and American protection and help, Israel actually supplying guns to Fatah during the struggle.

Abbas appears to be a man with whom Israel can work, but that means a man with no democratic position, a weak voice, and a somewhat step-and-fetch-it public posture. What does this say of Israel’s genuine respect for democracy and human rights?

Here is an actual quote from an early Lehi publication. Its vicious tone was fully realized in and around events of 1948 which included frightening Palestinians into stampeding away with false radio broadcasts and genuine village massacres:

“Neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat. We
are very far from having any moral qualms as far as our national war goes. We have before us
the command of the Torah, whose morality surpasses that of any other body of laws in the
world: "Ye shall blot them out to the last man." “

The day Israel completely gives up on the idea of Greater Israel and the day it begins treating its neighbors with respect as human beings is the day we will see the foundations of peace.

For sixty years Israel has maintained what an early Zionist advocated, an “iron wall” towards its neighbors. And it has manipulated events time and again with black ops – as Shin Bet’s subsidizing Hamas or the horrific attack on an American spy ship during the 1967 war in an effort to draw the U.S. in, or the assistance towards Apartheid South Africa’s becoming a nuclear power in exchange for strategic materials.

Well, you cannot make peace with an iron wall.

See the Big Picture…. Millions of Palestinians are living as refugees and not allowed to return to their country, because of a Historical joke.
How can a human mind logically justify that is something I cannot comprehend….
They can easily relate to that part of land…. by their names, their skin color, and place of birth………
Unlike the new comers (Zionists), aliens by all means, with green eyes and white pale skin (very sunny down there) or an eastern bloc ex Soviet Union name and accent.
Even if it is accepted that they join the Palestinians and live there, There is no justification what so ever to kick the Palestinians out. And to build a state based on single religion.
“Apartheid”

Israel has penned up the Palestinian people in a ghetto, called Gaza.

Israel controls the borders and economy of this ghetto and when the people become restless Israel responds with overwhelming military force.

Israel ignores international law and numerous United Nations resolutions because they feel that they are above the law.

Until Israel acts in a civilized fashion the Palestinian people will revolt!

Posted by: MJ | January 3, 2009 9:43 PM
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CORRECTION: Actually I was thinking "Hezbollah" and typing "Hamas". Two distinctly different organizations, but with much in common, including Hezbollah training and arming Hamas terrorists. Israel may be stepping into the same mistake it stepped into in Lebenon 2 years ago.
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Django,
I have no illusions about the nature of Hamas: they're brutal fanatics bent on both the destruction of Israel and the establishment of an Islamist dictatorship. Their rocket attacks against Israel target only civilians, while the Israeli responses against Hamas targets that inevitably collaterally kill civilians serve Hamas' strategy. Hamas wants to ratchet up the body count.
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It must be noted that they are likely to hunker down to a house-by-house fight, and never be entirely rooted out. (Again, the high casualties will suit their propaganda purpose.) Meanwhile other Middle Eastern nations gladly finance them, and serve as propaganda mouthpieces.
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Hamas has won some kind legitimacy in a democratic process. I would call that a case of Palestinians voting against the their own best interests, but the fact remains that they did it. And arguably, they did it as a response to the ham-handed policies of the Likud Party, who have held power in Israel for some years now. I say that Hamas feeds upon Likud (and vice versa) and peace becomes impossible.
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I don't have the answers to making peace in the region. But it seems to me that repeating mistakes is a bad idea.

Obama votes "Present".

Again.

I don't have the answers to making peace in the region. But it seems to me that repeating mistakes is a bad idea.

Posted by: MJ | January 4, 2009 10:32 AM

I have to say I agree 100% with you. I understand the nature of Hamas, however how many times have we seen this same conflict play out. It is has to be clear after 60+ years that this gets no resolution. I don't have the answers either, and I fear until the "world" is ready to solve it, it will remain festering.

MJ,

Certainly there are big risks that Israel is taking on here, and I, of course, have no way of knowing what the outcome will be. I do think that there is a point where you have to respond to terror with not equal force, but greater force and give your enemy a reason, also, to want to co-exist in a more peaceful fashion. The Hezbollah-Lebanon fight was recent enough that I would think that the Israeli military strategists will be very attuned to the mistakes that were made there. Even there, they were not totally unsuccesful in their efforts to stop the Hezbollah terrorists.

This whole affair illustrates to me the non-effectiveness of concepts like: Land For Peace, Jimmy Carter appeasement styled policies where Israel is called upon to bend over, the United Nations, etc. I certainly hate to see civilians become the casualties of war, but the damn world is somehow ok with Israeli boys and girls having to try to survive and grow up with terror on a daily basis. What else would anyone could, or would, ever do to stop the rocket attacks on a civilian populace? What other nation, other than France, would accept this day after day? Weak Liberals are probably fine with it, but a normal citizen of a sovereign country would consider it to be something considerably more than a nuisance.

Israel has said that if the rocket attacks were to stop, then they will back off. Even there, I think that they are bending over more than any other nation would in deference to the International opinion of the rest of the World, most of whom, I suspect, really wish for another Holocaust.

So, I hope that the military effort works. Don't know that it will, but something has to change. General William Sherman is attributed to saying that war is cruel and cannot be refined. Because of that unpleasant quality though, it does produce a change in the status quo. Clearly something needs to change here. Regards.

MJ,

Certainly there are big risks that Israel is taking on here, and I, of course, have no way of knowing what the outcome will be. I do think that there is a point where you have to respond to terror with not equal force, but greater force and give your enemy a reason, also, to want to co-exist in a more peaceful fashion. The Hezbollah-Lebanon fight was recent enough that I would think that the Israeli military strategists will be very attuned to the mistakes that were made there. Even there, they were not totally unsuccesful in their efforts to stop the Hezbollah terrorists.

This whole affair illustrates to me the non-effectiveness of concepts like: Land For Peace, Jimmy Carter appeasement styled policies where Israel is called upon to bend over, the United Nations, etc. I certainly hate to see civilians become the casualties of war, but the damn world is somehow ok with Israeli boys and girls having to try to survive and grow up with terror on a daily basis. What else would anyone could, or would, ever do to stop the rocket attacks on a civilian populace? What other nation, other than France, would accept this day after day? Weak Liberals are probably fine with it, but a normal citizen of a sovereign country would consider it to be something considerably more than a nuisance.

Israel has said that if the rocket attacks were to stop, then they will back off. Even there, I think that they are bending over more than any other nation would in deference to the International opinion of the rest of the World, most of whom, I suspect, really wish for another Holocaust.

So, I hope that the military effort works. Don't know that it will, but something has to change. General William Sherman is attributed to saying that war is cruel and cannot be refined. Because of that unpleasant quality though, it does produce a change in the status quo. Clearly something needs to change here. Regards.

The Arab world does little to solve the Palestinian problem. They are treated as outcasts and laborers in other Arab countries. They shun them like leprosy. With their billions of petro dollars very little aid comes to the average Palestinian, usually diverted for weapons or stolen by the leadership....makes a ripe and enthusiastic population for exploitation by terrorist. Add centuries of religious hate with a dismal existence and future...plus Iranian mullahs... shake...constant conflict. I see no prospect for peace until terrorists are terminated with extreme prejudice, the overthrow and elimination of the Iranian caliphate gov't. and their proxies, and the cessation of the idea of a global Islamic revolution. One must confront evil and destroy it...there is no negotiation or easy solution. If Islam and the Koran represents a peaceful, beautiful religion...show me, but keep to yourselves....to you bleeding heart Liberals, send your contributions and regrets for American support for Israel to an honest Palestinian charity...if you can one.

Posted by: Bubba Porter | January 4, 2009 2:36 PM \

Ah yes.,,, the American way, a call for Genocide and religious repression. The Muslims are the new Jews, The only good muslim is a dead muslim, right Bubba? Onward Christian soldiers, Bubba has declared a new crusade of peace and love with the goal of slaughtring millions of Muslims!

Hamas, like Hezbollah and Al Quaeda are terrorists. Israel needs to act against these idiots as much as we should.

Islam is a problem all over the world. Look at Mumbai, look at all the attacks against other countries. Not enough Muslims stand up to the terrorists.