Obama vs McCain: 'We had an election'

by Mark Silva

One curious contretempts of the stimulus debate is the conflict between Sen. John McCain, the losing Republican nominee for president, and President Barack Obama, the winner of an electoral landslide in an election which Obama portrayed as a matter of "change.''

The Arizona Republican, deriding the president's stimulus package as "a spending bill,'' also has suggested that "no bill is better than this bill.'' McCain is promoting tax cuts as a solution to the economic woes that helped decide the election.

Obama's response, essentially, is that they already had this argument, and Obama won it, on Nov. 4.

"We had an election last November,'' David Axelrod, one of the architects of Obama's campaign, said today. "One of this things that was tested in that election was the economic theory that has governed this country for the last eight years, that, oh -- that, somehow, if we just cut taxes more and more and more for corporations and -- and the well-to-do that that will solve all our -- all our problems.

"Everybody agrees that the kinds of things that we're suggesting that Sen/ McCain objects to would... make a huge difference in terms of jobs,'' Axelrod said, in an interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer today. "And that's why his program and the alternative he's proposed would -- would do so much less in terms of job creation, more -- more than a million jobs less. It's just not adequate to the task.

"We have tested that old.... Approach,'' Axelrod said. "We have to do something new.''

See the Axelrod interview here, courtesy of CNN's Situation Room, as well as a reprise of the interview that CBS News conducted with McCain earlier this week.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And joining us now from Williamsburg, Virginia, at a Democratic political leadership retreat is David Axelrod. He's the senior adviser to the president of the United States.

David, thanks very much for joining us.

DAVID AXELROD, WHITE HOUSE SENIOR ADVISER: Good to be here, Wolf.

BLITZER: Let's talk a little about the key issue right now, the economic recovery plan.

It was intriguing to hear what the vice president, Joe Biden, said earlier today. I will play this little clip for you, because I'm anxious to get your response.

Listen to what Joe Biden said.

AXELROD: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If we do everything right, if we do it with absolutely certainty, we stand up there and we make really tough decisions, there's still a 30 percent chance we're going to get it wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: That's not very encouraging, a one out-of-three chance that, even if you get everything you want, David, the president gets everything he wants, it's still going to be wrong?

AXELROD: Well, I don't know exactly about what that math was, but I know this, that there's 100 percent chance we're going to get it wrong unless we pass a very substantial economic recovery package now.

Wolf, you saw the statistics today -- staggering -- 600,000 jobs lost, the most in 35 years. Just to put it in perspective, that would be equivalent to every job in the state of Maine. That would be equivalent to all the jobs in the city of Pittsburgh or in Cleveland just wiped out in a month.

And I don't think the American people are going to sit still and wait for Washington much longer. There is great anger and eagerness and anticipation out there that we're going to do something. And I think we have to.

BLITZER: Because some people, critics of this, say, you know what? Take your time, even John McCain saying, start all over again from the beginning, because it's better to get it right than to rush into something, which you're critics say you're doing.

AXELROD: We have an economic catastrophe.

This -- this -- this package has been discussed for the better part of the last couple -- even before the president got to Washington, and he -- and before he was inaugurated. We -- we don't have time to wait.

We -- every single day, the economy is sliding further. And every economist agrees that the federal government is going to have to do something to help turn the situation around. And it has to be sizable.

Now, what the president has said is, let's -- let's do this plan. This plan, by all accounts, will create three to four -- create or save three to four million jobs in the next couple of years. It will also put people to work doing work that needs to be done, creating alternative -- doubling our renewable energy, building classrooms all over this country that -- and new labs and libraries for our kids, so they can learn, repairing roads and bridges and levees and dams, so we don't have more Katrinas and bridge collapses.

And there's -- the benefits go on and on...

BLITZER: All right.

AXELROD: ... by doing this.

So, we want to do is put people to work doing things that will have a long-lasting value to the people...

BLITZER: It's...

AXELROD: ... to the United States of America.

BLITZER: It -- it passed the -- the House with all the Democrats basically on board, except for 11, no Republicans. At that point, it was, what, $819 billion. Now it's well over $900 billion, approaching $1 trillion. And some of the more moderates say it's got to be below $800 billion and maybe closer to $700 billion.

Is the president willing to go and compromise in order to get that kind of bipartisan support?

AXELROD: Well, we believe that it has to be a substantial program in order to have the impact.

And every economist agrees we're losing a trillion dollars of output in our economy. And, in order to -- in order to offset that, we have to have a sizable program.

But I would add that, you know, a number of the items that were added were -- were tax cuts that some of the opponents of the plan have added, even as they complain about the growing size of it.

We -- we want to see the Senate act. We want to move this plan forward. Let's give people some hope that we can move quickly and bring some relief, so that we're not faced month after month after month with the prospect of even worse news.

BLITZER: Here's what John McCain said.

And I'm going to play the little clip for you, because, in the past, he's often been willing to work closely with Democrats on sensitive issues, like immigration reform, campaign finance reform. But, on this, he's very upset.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: It's a spending bill. Most of us weren't under the impression that what we wanted a job creation and economic stimulus bill. We can pass spending bills all the time. We do it all the time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. It looks like he's not going to go along and support what the president wants. And there are plenty others who agree with him.

AXELROD: Look, we have a great deal of respect for Senator McCain.

But we had an election last November. And what -- one of this things that was tested in that election was the economic theory that has governed this country for the last eight years, that, oh -- that, somehow, if we just cut taxes more and more and more for corporations and -- and the well-to-do that that will solve all our -- all our problems.

Everybody agrees that the kinds of things that we're suggesting that Senator McCain objects to would have a huge -- would make a huge difference in terms of jobs. And that's why his program and the alternative he's proposed would -- would do so much less in terms of job creation, more -- more than a million jobs less. It's just not adequate to the task.

We have tested that old -- the old approach. We have to do something new.

BLITZER: All right, David, I want you to stand by for a moment, because I want to continue this conversation. We're going to continue with David Axelrod in just a moment.

And I will press him on this issue; What's more important for the president, bringing Republicans on board, or trying to do it strictly along partisan lines, with only the Democrats?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

We're continuing our conversation with David Axelrod, the president's senior adviser.

David, what's more important to President Obama, to get this stimulus package passed the way he wants it, more or less, or to make major concessions to Republicans in order to bring a few Republicans on board?

AXELROD: Wolf, we're not into -- this is not a process question for us. It's not a partisan question for us.

The country is in an economic crisis. And we want a plan that will help bring us out of that crisis and lay the foundation for future economic growth. And we want to -- we want to -- we want to bring as many people with us as possible. But we want our program to be intact.

And that's -- the main thing is to address the issue. Every single elected representative in Washington is being called upon to stand up for the country right now, because people are losing jobs every single day all over, in every district, in every state. And the American people are saying, it's time to act.

The president has a -- a very strong concept of what we need to do to move this country forward. The American people supported that. I they think support it now. And we want Congress to act, so we can get this -- get this process of -- of restoring our economy going.

BLITZER: Does -- does Harry Reid, the Senate Democratic leader, the majority leader, have the 60 votes needed to end the debate and move on?

AXELROD: Well, they are obviously -- they are meeting now. We're hopeful.

I think anybody who read the newspapers this morning and saw these-- or the -- the -- looked at the news reports this morning -- saw these horrendous job numbers, and understands that we have to act.

And I would hope that that would be sobering for everyone and would change the tenor of the debate. We need to move this country forward.

BLITZER: Talk a little bit about the president, because, last night, we heard him step up the rhetoric. It was clear -- clearly -- I guess it's part of his frustration that it hasn't passed yet.

AXELROD: Well, I think the president is -- you know, he feels a sense of urgency.

He was -- he -- he, I think, has a strong -- when he sees reports like he did this morning, I think he thinks about people he's met all over this country, families who are wondering how they're going to pay their bills, how -- whether they're going to stay in their home, how they're going to take care of their kids, and they're looking to him and to the Congress to act.

So, I think that he -- he believes in -- in -- in a constructive process of back-and-forth. He doesn't believe he's -- he's cornered the market on all wisdom. But I think he feels it's time to act, because we are sliding into a more and more serious situation.

And, Wolf, the whole world is watching us. The entire world economy is in distress. We are the leaders. And people are waiting for us -- for us to do what needs to be done to pull our economy out of the ditch that we have inherited here.

So, I do feel he -- I think there is a sense of -- of impatience on his part. And -- and that's pretty appropriate, given the -- given the nature of the crisis we face.

BLITZER: David Axelrod -- thanks very much, David, for joining us.

AXELROD: Good to be with you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you.

John McCain and Katie Couric on the CBS Evening News earlier this week:

Here, courtesy of CBS News, is a transcript of Couric's interview with McCain:

MCCAIN: No bill is better than this bill, because it increases the deficit by over a trillion dollars. It has so many programs in it that create no jobs whatsoever. And it has no provisions to put us on the path of a balanced budget, once our economy has recovered.

COURIC: You say that you're very far apart, both sides. Are you talking about all the Republicans in the Senate--even some conservative Democrats who are uncomfortable with this package?

MCCAIN: Well, I know there are some Democrats who are uncomfortable. I know there are some quote "liberal" Republicans who lean more towards this package, and so it really is kind of a muddle here.

COURIC: But Senator McCain, hasn't President Obama tried to do just that, reach across the aisle, go up to Capitol Hill, invite Republicans to the White House to get this thorough. I know he's consulted you on several occasions hasn't he?

MCCAIN: Well, look I appreciate what the President has done, talking to House Republicans and Senate Republicans but there hasn't been the negotiations to start with. Second of all, it passed--they passed it through the House without consultation with the--Republicans and over here in the Senate, they have rejected all of the particular amendments that Republicans had proposed. So we need to walk the walk as well as talk the talk here.

COURIC: You're offering your own alternative, along with Democratic Senators. What is different about your proposal Senator McCain?

MCCAIN: Well, it's half the cost. It has to do with tax cuts like the payroll tax cuts and business tax cuts. It has money for military construction as well as replacing equipment for the military and it triggers a mechanism that would increase the gross domestic product by 2%. In other words, our economy recovers. We've got to put ourselves on a path to a balanced budget and eliminating the deficit that's mortgaging our children's futures.

COURIC: Have you talked to President Obama about your proposal?

MCCAIN: Yes, I have talked to President Obama on the phone and I appreciate his outreach, not only by me, but to others. Now serious negotiations have to take place.

COURIC: Was he receptive to your plan?

MCCAIN: Well, of course, he said that things would be considered. But Democrats here in the Senate are not receptive.

COURIC: President Obama claims that there are absolutely no earmarks in this bill. As someone who has been a champion against earmarks, do you agree with that assessment?

MCCAIN: Technically, yes, because the package came through without going through the normal process that it goes through. But the programs and proposals are clearly those characterized as earmark, that they the Democrats have never been able to get through. I don't know if money for smoking cessation creates a job--even though it's a worthy cause. And there's a myriad of programs, including that, that are not stimulative, nor are they job-creating.

COURIC: One of the items you criticized on the Senate floor today that has been in the stimulus package, the $2.9 billion for the weatherization assistance program. I actually asked President Obama about that yesterday. Let's listen to what he had to say.

OBAMA FROM YESTERDAY: We're going to weatherize homes. That immediately puts people back to work. As a consequence of weatherization, their energy bills go down, and we reduce our dependence on foreign oil. What would be a more effective stimulus package than that? I mean, you're getting a three for.

COURIC: What's your response to that?

MCCAIN: I think many, many worthy projects that are in this bill, but I do not believe that you can stimulate the economy and create jobs with programs like these. So, I have criticized these programs, which are there, and proposals which do not have an immediate effect on our economy to create jobs.

COURIC: Senator, John McCain, Senator so nice to see you again. Thank you so much for talking with us tonight.

MCCAIN: Thank you Katie