White House: Stock market not our fault

"Yes we can"- is going to quickly turn into a "I wish we did!"

Stocks are a bet on future performance and earnings... right now, people have low to no confidence in the fiscal and monetary gyrations this admin is going through... the stock market has incrementally shed value since he was nominated, elected and then inaugurated--- each event caused another dip in stock price... now with every doom and gloom statement he makes ( to inoculate him against failure of his program) the stocks churn again. Of course the stock values are caused by his policies.... Guaranteed if the stocks were skyrocketing he would take credit...this guy is already looking at 2012!

Lets see.......Wall street doesn't like the plan needed to revive the economy after wall street and greed cause us to lose trillions in home values which triggered the crisis? Guess which end of the rat I care about wall street.

The democrats will continue to spend the public's money. They will tax you to death.

Vote republican in local municipalities, county, state and federal contests.

Time to rid the democrats at all levels of government.

Vote!

Yes we can"- is going to quickly turn into a "I wish we did!"Stocks are a bet on future performance and earnings... right now, people have low to no confidence in the fiscal and monetary gyrations this admin is going through
Posted by: heartburn | February 20, 2009 2:22 PM
.......

Yeah PrePuke, and the Wall Street fatcats have got such a great track record of being right......NOT!

Quit rooting for America to fail, you traitor Repug..

I'm glad Wall Street is unhappy, when they're happy it usually means the average blue collar American is getting screwed in some way.

heartburn....yes...by all means lets bundle up some more toxic loans and get the economy going again. Which doom and gloom are we talking about? Obamas or the whinny baby republicans?

Of course it's you fault, idiot. Every other word out of your mouth is "crisis" or "calamity" or "catastrophe." When the President says stuff like that day in, day out, investors respond accordingly. There's a huge psychological component to the market that you're exploiting to create as much fear and insecurity as possible to facilitate your socialist power grab. "Not my fault." Gimme a flippin' break!

Every American needs to be entitled to everything they desire, regardless of any intent or ability to pay. Home ownership, universal healthcare, education, jobs,... Welcome to the New American Dream! The government will supply all of your needs.

After you cash your stimulus check, bury it to address the invoice which will soon be coming due, plus interest.

The recession was caused by the housing bust. the housing bust was caused by the sub-prime loan market over-inflating demand for houses - bubble burst. The sub-prime loan fiasco was caused by gov't putting its nose into the mortgage market and screwing the pooch. Why would any logocal business man make a loan that has a high probablity of not being re-paid? It took gov't "inducement" for them to make those loans.
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Get Brothel Barney "Banking Queen" Frank's and Chris "Friend of Angelo" Dodd's nose out of the banks business and we would all be better off.
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Heartburn said it best - the stock market is based upon expecttations, not the past. Right now the stock market expects a diaster.
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In the Fed's minutes from Jan 27 & 28, before the spendulsu bill, they expected GDP growth to be near 3.0% for 2010. This BO's target - if he doesn't hit it, this will have been a failure.
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A question for all you loons - since you have drank the kool-aid and believe the Anoited One will save the economy, how come you aren't rushing in and buying stocks. This s/b a no brainer for you loons.

There's that transparency, accountability and responsibility we were all told so much about.

The only thing transformational about this legislation is that it will transform the dollar into a worthless currency and the country into a third-world socialist nanny state.

Posted by: Vast Right Wing Conspirator | February 13, 2009 7:51 AM

A question for all you loons - since you have drank the kool-aid and believe the Anoited One will save the economy, how come you aren't rushing in and buying stocks. This s/b a no brainer for you loons.

Posted by: Terry | February 20, 2009 3:49 PM

It might be the same thing as to why you didn't join the service to fight in Iraq.

Ned Flanders are you serious? When Wall Street is unhappy this average American sees her retirement savings going down the crapper - get a clue. These jokers are suppose to be the smartest people on the economy and all they can do is spout "the sky is falling" and "its not our fault" - well it certainly isn't my fault that these politicians wanted to give away houses and screwed up everything! Bad enough I lose in the market but now I got to bail out the losers from the house give away and Nancy Pelosi's rats.

Every American needs to be entitled to everything they desire, regardless of any intent or ability to pay. Home ownership, universal healthcare, education, jobs,... Welcome to the New American Dream! The government will supply all of your needs. After you cash your stimulus check, bury it to address the invoice which will soon be coming due, plus interest.
Posted by: ObamabotsACTIVATE! | February 20, 2009 3:49 PM
....

Yeah it must really stink for all you repuglicans who are so used to cheerleading for the richest 1-2% of America, big corporations and big oil to get more tax cuts. You can't even start any trumped up wars in which to siphon off money to your corupt cronies (Halliburton, Blackwater, KBR etc) anymore.

Waaaaaaaaaaah!

PS - Shouldn't you be out trashing unions today or did they give you the day off?

Secretary LaHood has revealed himself to not be intellectually or ideologically suited to his job. He clearly thinks just like the rest of the Bush Administration who have been turfed out of their jobs. It's time he accompanied the rest of them into political oblivion. Just say no to GOP holdovers.

One can only wonder how long until Atlas shrugs.

Of course it's you fault, idiot. Every other word out of your mouth is "crisis" or "calamity" or "catastrophe." When the President says stuff like that day in, day out, investors respond accordingly. There's a huge psychological component to the market that you're exploiting to create as much fear and insecurity as possible to facilitate your socialist power grab. "Not my fault." Gimme a flippin' break!

Posted by: Vast Right Wing Conspirator | February 20, 2009 3:30 PM

And why was it not a problem for you when Bush did it all through his administration? Give ME a flippin break!

Yeah PrePuke, and the Wall Street fatcats have got such a great track record of being right......NOT!

Quit rooting for America to fail, you traitor Repug..

Posted by: antacid | February 20, 2009 2:44 PM

Traitor Repug? Now thats witty!
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About this- wipe off your computer screen, take a shower and then go to your closest junior college and take a macro 101 class...
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You will benefit in three ways..
1. you will get some fresh air that you clearly need.
2.your family and friends will appreciate the shower recommendation.
3.You will find out what anyone with any intellectually honesty already has learned about changes in the stock market..
--
Have a nice weekend.

question for all you loons - since you have drank the kool-aid and believe the Anoited One will save the economy, how come you aren't rushing in and buying stocks. This s/b a no brainer for you loons.

Posted by: Terry | February 20, 2009 3:49 PM

Terri, you're the same guy who spent the last eight years telling us how great the Bush economy was. You have zero credibility on this topic, none, zip, nada.

Op109 wrote: "And why was it not a problem for you when Bush did it all through his administration?"


Two questions:

1. Why do liberals always try to duck the issue by pointing a finger at someone else instead of facing up to their own guilt?

2. Why do liberals always assume that just because I'm a conservative I didn't have a problem with Bush? Of course I had a problem with Bush when he acted like a liberal. I had a problem with McCain because he likes to act like a liberal. I have a problem with ANYONE of any party when they act like a liberal. Liberalism is a mental disorder, a veritable plague on America, that must be eradicated at all costs. My vote is for mass deportation of liberals to the socialist utopia of their choosing. I'll fund the one-way airfare.

heartburn....yes...by all means lets bundle up some more toxic loans and get the economy going again. Which doom and gloom are we talking about? Obamas or the whinny baby republicans?

Posted by: bill r. | February 20, 2009 3:15 PM

I never said that - not sure how you draw that conclusion from anything I have posted.

What I am saying is that Wall Street hates what Obama is doing now and does not see any upside in his stimulus-

Also---He is playing us... with his campaign tactic of trying to compare this recession to the '30s is freaking consumers out - another psychological hit affecting consumer spending ( 80-90%) of our economy.

Please don't draw conclusion out of thin air-

For all of the mooneyed Obamabots posting here and so I don't cause antacid to go into another fit ...

When does Obama actually become accountable for his policies impact on the economy?

Heartburn, you've got idiots like Danforth trying to say it's election day. That's hilarious.
He's responsible for his policies, but the Dow Jones is NOT the measure of that.

When does Obama actually become accountable for his policies impact on the economy?

Posted by: heartburn | February 20, 2009 5:00 PM

President Obama has been on the job for less than 1 1/2 months. Give it a rest, Rush

And quit cheering for America to fail, you traitor.

2. Why do liberals always assume that just because I'm a conservative I didn't have a problem with Bush?
Posted by: Vast Right Wing Conspirator | February 20, 2009 4:51 PM

I don't know.......could it be that we didn't hear one peep out of you when he was riping America a new one? It is amazing how many have come out of the closet since the campaign that now say......Hey I didn't really like Bush? I guess "the problem" you had with Bush is only that he cost you the election.

My vote is for mass deportation of liberals to the socialist utopia of their choosing.
Posted by: Vast Right Wing Conspirator | February 20, 2009 4:51 PM

Your vote didn't even get you a president so good luck with that.

For all of the mooneyed Obamabots posting here and so I don't cause antacid to go into another fit ...

When does Obama actually become accountable for his policies impact on the economy?

Posted by: heartburn | February 20, 2009 5:00 PM

I can't give you an exact date, but I'll guarantee that by September 11, 2009 it'll be all his!

Wall street sees the writing on the wall. They do not like the stimulus the way it is written. There is just too much pork. There are some good things to be sure, but I believe that the ultimate cost to the taxpayers of this generation and several to come has has a definite effect on what's going on in the markets on a day to day basis. President Obama needs to stop running for office,apparently no one
ever told him he won. One last item he needs to start rallying everyone and stop the doom and gloom.

*1. Why do liberals always try to duck the issue by pointing a finger at someone else instead of facing up to their own guilt?*

Cuz yer so obnoxious and mean and don't engage in civil debate; u scare us.

I agree with all the other economically illiterate Obamatons commenting here: Obama needs to keep driving to Dow down to 0! That'll show those "greedy fatcats" (a.k.a. the American public) who dared to invest in the stock market!

Say it with me now:
Go Obama Go! Ze-ro! Ze-ro!
Go Obama Go! Ze-ro! Ze-ro!
Go Obama Go! Ze-ro! Ze-ro!

I love the hysteria from the Loons on the Left. Here are some facts to digest:
1. Rush Limbaugh said he wants Obama to fail, not America. I ask you Loons, was there ever a moment when you folks wanted Bush to fail? Like Harry Reid saying the surge won't work? Or saying the war in Iraq is lost?
2. Wall Street is not just for the rich Millions of average Americans have their futures tied to the stock market through 401(k)s, mutual funds, stocks, etc.
3. According to the polls, most Americans do not believe the spendulus bill will help the economy and most don't like the excess of $1 TRILLION spending initiated in just the past three weeks.
4. Most economists say the spendulus bill will not help the economy. It is not a stimulus bill, but a spending bill that will not work.
5. Wall Street and the Nation are reacting negatively because so far the Obama and Dem Congressional actions are bad for the economy and bad for America.
Reality, people, reality!

This time it didn't, Bill. The electorate gets to watch Pelosi, Obama, Rangel, Dodd, and Reid in charge now and even you know that it ain't gonna be pretty.

the stock market has incrementally shed value since he was nominated, elected and then inaugurated--- each event caused another dip in stock price...

And who, exactly, was in the White House over the entire time span you mention? This crisis started a year ago, not a month ago.

Bull R,
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Because I was over the age limit with bum wheels.
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Pla,
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I have forgotten more about economics than you will ever dream of knowing.
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After the inherited recession of 2001, six-plus years of economic growth, lower interest rates, low inflation, low unemployment. It was just horrible.
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Since Pelosi & Reid took over on 1-3-07, the DJ Index closed at 12474. Since the loons have confiscated Congress and today it closed at 7366.
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Just in the month BO has been in office, the DJI has lost 900 points

Terry, In the case of 2001, you believe in the concept of an "inherited recession," but in 2009 apparenly you don't? And you believe the Speaker of the House and Senate Majority control the economy?
"I have forgotten more about economics than you will ever dream of knowing."
I hope you remember enough to explain this crap.

have forgotten more about economics than you will ever dream of knowing.After the inherited recession of 2001, six-plus years of economic growth, lower interest rates, low inflation, low unemployment. It was just horrible.Since Pelosi & Reid took over on 1-3-07, the DJ Index closed at 12474. Since the loons have confiscated Congress and today it closed at 7366.
Just in the month BO has been in office, the DJI has lost 900 points

Posted by: Terry | February 20, 2009 8:55 PM
.....

Terri,
You would flunk an 8th grade economics class nowadays. They don't teach Trickle-down anymore because it has been proven to be a big stinking pile of failure and one that you and Rush and that phony shill Alan Greenspan have embraced lock, stock and barrel.

The fact that the rich Republican Wall Street hacks that you are always trying to get more tax cuts and bonuses for, are now crying a river makes me smile and the fact that you're still flailing around trying to blame the Bush recession on Frank, Dodd, Pelosi, Reid, Chuck E Cheese, Sponge Bob Squarepants and Bozo the Clown is laughable...and predictable.

The equation for GDP is simple, Terri. Here it is:

C+I+E+G = GDP.

In case you are confused, those are symbols. Let's explains those symbols for you.

C - consumer spending. This is now in the tank. Personal consumption expenditures are now negative year over year. Retailers just reported a terrible Christmas. In other words -- 70% of our economy is out of order right now.

I - Investment. This has been neutral for awhile. You may be familiar with the housing bubble? (Actually, you probably just became aware of it because you were saying the economy was sound until recently). Well - there was a housing bubble and it has crashed. As a result, total investment has been weak for some time now.

E = net exports. The US runs a mammoth trade deficit, so this ones out as well.

That leaves G -- as in government spending -- to pull us out of this mess. Unless of course you like depressions you dolt.

The audacity of Wall Street's “revolt” is that a mere 75 billion is being spent to help struggling families repackage loans- a pittance in the terms of the gargantuan amount of money being thrown at the banks, the Wall Street wizards, and the rest of the Republican rocket scientists (Terry) who are the root of this problem.

VRC, Bill Hussein has to point fingers and deflect blame because he's incapable of having an adult argument or taking responsibility for he and his lockstep party's actions.
Witness how EVERY argument he has ends in "well, why won't you fight in Iraq" after he's been soundly beaten with cold logic. In this one he actually equated the economy with "going to fight in Iraq."
Pretty much says it all, doesn't it? There's not much going on upstairs.

Terri, your lack of knowledge about finances has never impressed me. Loon up above has your stupid theory pegged to the wall for everyone to see who is full of bushit around here. Unless you are selling your gold stock right now (which my friends are doing) you are an economic joke.

There is a part of me that hopes that this market gets pounded to the point where the pugs admit that widespread personal investing creates too much fluctuation in the market. I hope the pugs retract their bushit about privatizing social security so that we can all gamble on the market. I hope the market gets pounded down to the point where we realize that the backbone of this country is not our financial system, but it is in the people and the small companies. I hope we get pounded down to the point where we realize how smart our forefathers were when they created social securty and we respect it (and fund it) for what it does. I hope we get pounded down to the point where the pugs will realize that minimum wage is not a liveable wage and that they will pay for it one way or the other. I hope we get pounded down to the point that Terri, Johnd, and right winger realize how they were lied to for all these years. I also hope many of the idiots living in mcmansions loose their homes due to their stupid planning and ego problems. Most of all, I hope we get pounded down to the point where America stands up and looses this bushit about keeping up with the Jones's.

In my observations of economical conditions as juxtaposed to presidencies, I find that the policies of the previous president do carry over to the suceeding president, for generally about a year or so. There are no hard rules about this. I believe the situation we are in right now is an example of this. If Obama manages to turn around this dark horse by his 4th year I will be impressed. I believe I was on record 3 months ago here saying "wait until 4th quarter numbers come in", and yes, it is as bad as I thought.

Looks like there is a fork in the road folks with the cliff straight ahead: Right turn is Great Depression 2.0 and the left turn is Revolt.

Kool-Aid Loon,
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Actually I do believe in inherited recessions and foriegn policy problems. The thing with this current recession is that started after Nancy and Harry seized control of Congress.
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The major cause of this recession has been the hosuing collapse , which was precipitated by the the corruption of Fannie and Freddie. That corruption was enabled by the Congressional democrats.
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Repugbot,
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I'll take you word for it that they don't teach the Laffer Curve in 8th grade economics. Wouldn't suprise, becuase the NEA probably wouldn't allow it.
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Nice job cutting and pasting the "C+I+E+G = GDP." and the explanations.
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Gov't spending - some gov't spending can create jobs - mostly temporary. Yes, there is good gov't spending on items that are the gov't's responsibility, such as roads and bridges. However, there are billions of dollars on items that are pure wasteful:
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http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/12/earmark-less-bill-gives-pelosis-mouse-cookie/
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or not the gov'ts job:
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http://www.news-gazette.com/news/business/2009/02/13/futuregen_not_explicitly_named_in_stimulus_bill
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You could stimulate the Investment by lowering taxes on the job creators - such as businesses. Lower income taxes decreases the cost of capital and thus lowers the hurdle rates for various investments and projects.
As you can see the Congressional GOP had a plan that Harry and Nancy wouldn't even allow into debate. The plan would have been 1/2 the cost with double the jobs created, not "saved".
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http://republicanleader.house.gov/News/DocumentSingle.aspx?DocumentID=109659
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Horrible form,
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Too bad my finance skills never impressed you, your taking up valuable oxygen has never impressed me.
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Privatizing Soc Sec - I have run my own own personal numbers, and even after last year's horrible year on the market, Soc Security would have to give me a 5 1/2% return. As you know, it only gives about 2% to the avaerage earner. I'll tell you, I am an abover avaerage earner, so my return from the gov't is even less. MAybe BO will get the stock market so low that SOc Sec will look like a promised return from Bernie Madoff.
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Minimum wage was never meant to be a wage that one supports a family on. It is a job introductory wage.
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I also believe that incoming presidents inherit the situations of the previous. It would have nice if all you flatliners had acknowledged that as far as Presidend Bush inheriting a recession and a lack of action against Islamic terrorism.
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With your bitterness in the post above, you sound like someone who wants to see America fail. Anything to make your vision of the world work.

Jeff.......Oh I feel so bad. Truly, a wise poster of unwaivering truth such as yourself makes me humble in your present. I don't know....maybe it is a little resentment left over from the years of you and your ilk calling me unamerican....a coward....Maybe it was the hypocricy of the situation. I'm sure that was an "adult" conversation to you. But certainly point out that my words mean nothing. After all, you and the republican party have brought us peace and prosperity for years now. I have also noticed how crystal clear and even handed your posts have become. Is that your minds clarity or desperation and anger I see?

Terri, I will agree with you that Clinton left office with a little bit of a downturn in the economy.....not much more than any other election year dip though. I do not agree with you (and other nutjobs) that think Obama has drove this market into the ground. You fools are completely ignoring economic conditions, and that is the principal driver of the market....not what someone says.

Your theory about minumum wage is funny. Even as an "introductory wage" it is still not a liveable wage. Are the ones that take these jobs supposed to live out of their savings while they go through this "break in" period?

Um, of course factually you are wrong when you say there was nothing done about Islamic Fascism before schrub....if you think a bit before you type.

You are partially correct with my wish for America to fail. I hope sections of this country fail so misserably, that it becomes obvious to people like you the falacy that you have been living in. I hope the banking sector fails. I hope the insurance sector fails. I hope wall street fails. I hope anyone that makes a buck using someone else's buck fails. There are too many people touching money these days. I think I heard the statistic of 1 in 4 jobs is tied to this. We need to get back to the basics of economics, such as MAKING something and using smart tarriffs which both served us well for 200 years.

I'm glad you made 5.5% on your money last year. Most people did not, and thus, most people should not be in control of their own retirement funds, which is what my first post essentially said.

I also strongly dissagree that the housing bubble is what caused this whole mess. It happens to be the second big domino in this mess. The first one being stagnent wages and an unstable job market. This CLEARLY happened on bushco's watch. People bought houses using projected earnings. When those earnings don't come in, you don't make your house payments. If part of your earnings were tied to the stock market, then you certainly did not meet expectations. There are MANY reasons that factor into why people did not make their payments, such as an unexpected hospital bill because their employer cut back on the benefits last year, and the like. All this shows us what a house of cards we have built in the last 30 years and how precarious our economy really is. I hope this shows us once and for all that trickle will never work. I hope that is shows us that this global economy falacy works for no one but 3rd world countries. I hope that this shows us that we can not survive on a service based economy.

Horrible Form,
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Economic conditions are a larger long-term driver of the market more than what someone says. However, look at what happens when he speaks: Inaguration day - you can follow the dive of the dow as he delivered his address. When Guithner and Bernanke spoke last week, the market dived. On this past Tuesday, after the spendulus bill was passed by Congress, the market dove. Words are important to the markets and so far BO's words have not given the market any reassurances.
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The ones that takes these jobs are supposed to be 16 and 17 year olds not responsible for mortgage and family. They are living with mom and dad. After they have rec'd their 13 years of free gov't education, they should be able to have a skill so that they can earn above minimum wage. Are you saying that gov't funded and run education can't even accomplish that small feat?
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What was done regarding Islamic fascism between January 20, 1993 and January 20, 2001? Please list all of Clinton's great accomplishments - especially the ones that Islamic fascism on the defensive!!!
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If you would learn how to read, I stated that if I was able to invest my contributions to Soc Security over my earning lifetime into the stock market, I would have earned 5,5% over the approxiamte 30 years. Over double the pathetic 2% return for the avaerage American.
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Assume your stagnet wage and unstable job market is true - I would like a link, unless this is your theory. Which Bush policy led to this?
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It was the sub-prime mortgages that people signed that got them into the mess - when the rates adjust, they can't afford the house. The housing bubble started to burst long before unemployment started to rise.
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I believe their is an economic model that fits what you describe - where we should go:
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http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/cuba/economy.htm
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When you get older and wiser and become a producer in this economy and start paying taxes, you will learn these lessons.

Swamp Scoreboard:
----------------

Xcellentform - 3
Repugbot - 2
loon with kool-aide - 2
Terri - 0

Terri....first off, thank you for giving me my first bad name on the boards.....now I feel like a bad @ss.

I think you and I are now in agreance about what is driving this market. It has been sliding since Dec. 2007, so this is clearly not Obama's fault. I agree that the weak, scared, market people are acting negatively to Obama's remarks.....so what. If the market conditions were not there they would blow off his remarks.

I am still laughing about your theory for minimum wage. Am I to deduce that these businesses shut down durring school hours, or are the 16 and 17 year old kids drop outs? Who is supposed to run the McDonalds durring school hours? Do they then get paid a liveable wage? Sorry again....you've been lied to.

We both know Clinton dropped some bombs....schrub one went to war.....Isreal has been fighting them......we put some in jail. How about you look up your own links for your own education.

Yes, I apparently made a reading error in your poorly written post about your 5.5% ROI. See how easy that is to admit you are wrong once in a while? I feel like such a naked whore right now. I'm glad an old geezer like yourself has had your money in long enough to afford that stability. Anyone that has put money in for only the last 10 years has probably lost money in the market and would GLADLY take a 2% ROI.

Yes, the my theories on the origins of this depression are my own. I do not have to be force-fed any information. I have gray matter between my ears and know that probably 99.9% of people that enter into a contract to buy a house will continue to make the payments if they can afford them. You also seem to be making yet another mistake when you talk about PMI. It is not the PMI that forced many of the people out of their homes, but it was the greedy banks and their deceptive ARM loans that have. But, right now, those in ARM loans are still sitting pretty well, due the the Feds.

Terri, when you get older and wiser, maybe you will start becoming a productive member for the good of society. As for me, I am all of the above and I pay my share of taxes. Yet another mistake you made in your posts. How does it feel to be out-thunk by someone much younger? I used to be a hardline pug too until I opened my eyes.

When you get older and wiser and become a producer in this economy and start paying taxes, you will learn these lessons.

Posted by: Terry | February 21, 2009 12:51 PM
..............

Ask a Republican, like rock head Terry, how to deal with a recession, and you would be safe in betting your life against a steak dinner they will not ask for specifics before laying out their prescription: Cut upper-income and corporate taxes and reduce public spending. They will not ask or state what current rates are, what they are relative to other rates, nor what they should be, because that information - the facts of the situation - has no bearing on their thinking. What counts is the act of cutting, which they regard as an expression of a moral principle.

Ask them (Terry) how to deal with sluggish growth, or even how to encourage an already-booming economy, and their response will be no different: Cut upper-income and corporate taxes, and cut public spending. Iterate the question through as many different permutations as you please, the result will be the same - their "solution" is fixed in stone. To a rational person it becomes rapidly apparent that the GOP isn't playing with a full deck, but the problem goes much deeper than Republicans being Beavis-like creatures with a single response to everything: They do not even agree with the literal definitions of the nouns in the question, like "economy," nor do they even agree with the unstated assumption that the purpose of economics is to increase general prosperity.

This fact is easily illustrated by asking a simple question: What should be done if these tax rates and social spending are already zero? While some will equivocate, eventually you will get their honest response to that set of circumstances: Under those conditions, there is no problem to be solved.

Got that? If the taxes of the wealthy and corporations are zero, and no public money is spent (or "redistributed") on social programs, then there cannot be an economic problem by definition. Or, at least, they will claim that any problems which do exist are to be blamed on their victims, and thus by default there is nothing wrong with "the economy." If ten million people were homeless and starving, and the National Guard was in the streets to quell food riots, but the tax and spending situation were as they suggest, they would regard the situation as ideal and recognize no problem. This leads one then to question exactly what these maniacs think an "economy" is, and what they regard its purpose to be.

Terry and his merry band of Republican robber barons do not regard markets as tools to benefit society, but as magical beings or divinities whom mere humans live to serve, and whom governments exist solely to protect from "interference" by democracy, social activism, or unionization. It is these entities they regard to hold not only national sovereignty, but to define moral virtue.

They do not even agree that it is desirable to increase the political power and economic prosperity of average human beings, because this involves compromising the unfettered operation of free market divinities whose "judgment" is to be regarded as the standard by which all actions are weighed. It is the "will of God" that millions of people be in desperate poverty and a select few live lives without challenge or accountability, so enacting policy which changes this state of affairs is a grave blasphemy that must be met with the most concerted rhetorical (or literal) violence.

Hey Xcellentform,
You'll have to give Terri the last word or his inferiority complex will kick in and he'll start crying like the whiny angry old Repuglican white guy that he his.
The Wingnutter's seem to think that if they can scream over you and have the last word that means they're right (watch Fixed News Channel any night of the week and you'll see this). They've just been voted into the very small minority in two straight landslide elections, that's why you're seeing Wingnuts like Trickle-down boy Terri on here acting like petulant children who had their toys taken away from them by mommy..

Somebody get Terry on O's finance team, quick. The guy who told us unfettered capitalism was the answer to everything, Trickle-Down Terry, still boast that his financial skills are unsurpassed. He even thinks that giving more corporate tax breaks (40% of which didn't pay any taxes anyway) will be stimulus enough. Never mind that every corporation in America is in the red and won't be paying any taxes for some time to come, and therefore won't be stimulating anything.

And even as studies pour in daily to support that MMGW is real, and is in fact accelerating, Terry clings to belief that it's a hoax. Once a Flat-Earther, always a Flat Earther.

Sportscenter,
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You better hope the score doesn't get over 20 - you will out of fingers and toes. Good to see Keith Overbite got his old job back.
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Horrible Form,
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During school days - 18 and 19 year olds can work MickekD's - the ones that really screwed up their 13 years of free gov't education.
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Bill Clinton dropped bombs for four days and that's not an act of war? Stucdy history - we were a little peed off when Japan dropped bombs on Pearl Harbor for 4 hours. BTW, FDR didn't go out an arrest the pilots of those Japanese aircraft - he went after the S0Bs. That was Clinton's problem - he traeted this as a police action.
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I'm glad you can read something the 2nd time thru - maybe you are one of the minimum wage geniuses. Someone who is 30 would be a little behind on their 401K right now; however, there has been no 40 year consecutive period in US history that the stock market has performed below the return for SocSec. None. Nada.
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If that goes for original thought - try an Econ 101 class at your local JC. Trust me, you haven't even begin to out think me. If you were a thinking man, you wouldn;t have the flatliner views you did. You would be able to take care of yourself and your family and not be dependent on the gov't and minimum wage laws.
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Ajs,
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Cut Corporate Taxes to 25% to help bring jobs home form overseas and also to reduce the cost of capital for more investment. Reduce capital gains and dividend taxes from 15% to 7.5% to once agin lower the cost of caoital and create more investment. Truthfully, the cap gains and dividend taxes s/b eliminated since it is double taxation. Lower the top tax rate back to 28%.
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If the top tax rate were zero (or at least lowered), you wouldn't have 10 million homeless because you would have a booming economy.
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Just remember that the 2nd, 3rd, and 5th longest economic growrth cycles have occurred after the top tax brackets have been lowered.
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Laughing - go back to watching Sponge Bob

ter, before you start condescending to another poster, have your administration assistant proof read your horribly written, grammatically disastrous drivel. what's that? she was laid off last summer? well son, go back to school and get an education. you're embarrassing yourself.

16 year old minimum wage earners are more literate than you.

dt,
Trickle Down Terri is just another Repug drone who is oblivious to anything other than his already debunked ideology. He couldn't find his way out of a paper bag without instructions from Alan Greenspan and Ayn Rand. The reason we're in such a finicial s-hole right now is because we just got done with eight years of an idiot Pres (Bush) who "thinks" just like Trickle Down Terri does.

Swamp Scoreboard:
----------------

Xcellentform - 4
Repugbot - 2
loon with kool-aide - 2
ajsalcny - 1
dt - 1
Terri - 0

Trust me, you haven't even begin to out think me.
Posted by: Terry | February 21, 2009 9:04 PM

HAHAHA!!!...SNORT SNORT...wait a minute....BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!!

You're a legend in your own Freeper mind, Rush....I mean Trickle Down Terri!

Terri, you're an embarrassment to your fellow women everywhere. You are either delusional or you have the IQ of a grape fruit.

For the last two decades, the Republicans have steadily purged themselves of all moderates, of anyone who did not toe the party line, of anyone who did not support the party leaders with every fiber of their being. Under leaders like DeLay and a dozen other of the top far-right powerbrokers, apostasy was ruthlessly punished. Moderates were primaried out, the religiously or socially tolerant were excoriated, the legislatively balanced were forced from their positions -- all in service to a supposed permanent ideological governance, one that valued ideological purity over all else. Over knowledge, over experience, over common sense, over the very fabric of the law -- the ideology of hard-right conservatism trumped it all. Toe the line, and you were granted jobs in the administration, or positions of leadership in Iraq, or plum committee assignments. Voice disapproval -- you were nothing. You woke up the next morning to a White House Press Secretary declaring that you were a disgruntled brat, one with emotional or mental impairments that were responsible for your pitiable desertion.

After twenty years of purging, all the Republicans have left is that hard-right extreme. They shoved everyone else out willingly: it seems hardly surprising that now, faced with the fruits of it all, they are finding that all constituencies of the nation that they sought to condemn, belittle or purge are no longer interested in supporting them now.

As far as I am concerned the last thirty years have proven modern conservatism to be not just ill conceived, but paranoid, divisive, willfully incompetent, obtusely premised, and in sum utterly valueless to the nation -- a waste of political oxygen. Something to be burned at the stake, and the ashes scattered, never to be heard from again.

But I expect they will, in the next years, at least try to retool their party into one that at least pretends to be more tolerant of, well, anyone not fully immersed in the notion that Ayn Rand and James Dobson rule the universe. The coming bloodshed between the two factions -- conservative true believers who can look at the last eight years and see absolutely nothing worth doing differently, nothing but a smashing but sadly misunderstood success (Terri), versus those that truly wish to temper the party in an effort to regain at least some semblance of their former power -- and this wil be a glorious thing to behold.

Terri, other than your fellow far right-wing partisan nutjobs, you're the last woman on board the Titanic called "Conservatism".

Terri, so using your last revised view of minimum wage, are these 18 and 19 year olds getting paid a liveable wage, or are they still living with their parents to make ends meet? Quite chasing your tale around....you lost this one.

Thanks again for retracting your original statement that nothing was done about Islamic facism before. You lost again.

Assuming your statement about the 40 year rule is correct: What about the scenario of the man at 30 that starts to put away money for retirement. Is he gauranteed at least a 2% ROI from the market?

As for your longest consecutive growth cycles.....do the math you dry fart: What is 2+3+5? What is 1+4+6? This is assuming that each value is porportionate, which we both know is not. I would say that your "proof" needs a little more substance and is certainly not the "absolute" solution that you suggest that it is. Using these numbers it is entirely possible to say that you have about a 50% chance of making the economy better by lowering said taxes. WOW what a silver bullet that is! You can not state that any single "cure" for the economy will work. There is a diversification of fronts that need to be addressed....much like the stimulus bill that was just passed.

Do you have any facts and figures that reducing corp taxes will reduce outsourcing? Of course not, you know why? Outsourcing is too new of a practice to support good statistics. Outsourcing is how business exploit cheap labor, not how they sidestep taxes....you dry fart.

Terri, you suffer from a typical pug problem. You have an inability to plug different scenarios into your flawed theories. You believe that if it worked for you, that it will work for everyone....and if it does not work for them, then they must not be worthy of a descent life and the American dream.

Sportscenter.....call the match for medical reasons, I think Terri recieved too many blows to the head.

Crud,
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Before you throw rocks at glass houses, please proof read the following:
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"she was laid off last summer?"
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Betcha,
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Mo facts, just flatliner dribble. 73 months of economic growth under President Bush - Fact.
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Audrey,
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"Moderates were primaried out" - Really, I remember President Bush in 2004 stumping for Arlen Specter in the 2004 primary against a much more conservative opponent. The same applies to the democrats - the few moderates they do have hold no position of power with the House or Senate. They are all subservient to Harry, Nancy, Schumer, Rangel, ...
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Horrible Form,
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Probably still living with mom and dad. Besides, if they had acquired skills in the 13 years of free education, they would be able to demand higher wages. If there was not a supply of minimum wage lablr, this would force McDonalds to pay hire wages. Results of a failed gov't education system.
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If smething would have been done about Islamic Terrorism, would we have had 9-11. Clinton did nothing becayuse he neutered the military and intellgence.
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W/O looking, I doubt there have been any 30 yaer cycles of 2% ROI. Do you own research www.nber.org
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Considering supply-side has only been tried since the 60's, I think it has great track-record - good economic growth and increased gov't revenues. You need to look at fiscal and monetary policies - see what happens to the economy when you raise taxes - except for the abberation of the 1990's - which was caused by the new technology of personal computers and the inetrnet.
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I assume when you have work done for you, youuse the more expensive person (assuming quality is the same)? Is that how you run your own life?
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I believe an decent American life should not be a bunch of entitlements, but something that is earned. Stop sticking you hand out looking for others to do your work.

believe an decent American life should not be a bunch of entitlements, but something that is earned. Stop sticking you hand out looking for others to do your work.

Posted by: Terry | February 22, 2009 1:07 PM
..........

Really? Then I guess you were up in arms over the "handouts" like tax cuts for the 1-2% wealthiest, big corporations and big oil the Repugs were giving out the last eight years, huh?

Terri, your circular Repug logic is a joke. It's one thing for Repugs to come up with new and fresh idea's (they don't have any), it's another thing when Repugs like you sit around having a circle jerk with your fellow wingnuts of old debunked Repug idea's hoping that you can come up with a new way to sell them with different language.

Face it Trickle Down, your Repug ideology has been debunked on a grand scale and your hero Greenspan admitted as much....I guess you didn't get the memo.

PS - learn how to spell, Slick.

Ha,
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Tax cuts to the top earners? No I wasn't upset when that happens because the Top 1% earners pay about 40% of the income tax in this country. Who do you think should get tax cuts, those that don't pay taxes?
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http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6
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Since I'm not on Greenspans mailing list, perhaps you can provide the memo with a link.

Sportscenter - I think your team quit. When you know you are whipped, walk off the field

In Terry's intractable mind, the idiots that created CDO's that resulted in the collapse of the world economy "earned" their billions by shuffling poison derivatives around. The top 1% that got filthy rich on investments taxed at 15% thanks to Pug tax changes should pay 40% of the nation's taxes, given that they are the only one's that thrived in the Bush years. Billionaire Warren Buffet payed an average of 17% on his earnings, his secretary 30% on a $60,000 salary. The notion that this investment income deserves to be taxed at a lower rate because it spurs more growth has been debunked. Terry's the typical selfish elitist pr#@k that sees nothing wrong with the direction the country has been taken. I'll meet you on the field anytime, Trickle-Boy.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0224/p09s02-coop.html