Obama rescinding stem-cell research ban

FINALLY! After eight years of knuckle-dragging, mouth breathing, flat earth, anti-science, Repukelican party rule.....SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY MAKES A COME BACK!

Thank you, President Obama....

Yes it is refreshing that the right no longer has to lead us forward to the 1800s.

Obama has no limits on his immoral and unethical actions. Giving America away through handouts, mortgage handouts and more free money. Not to mention he supports more Abortion and Gay Marriage.

My only wish is that he would not call himself a Christian. He will not be going to heaven when he dies. Not unless he accepts Jesus soon.

Potential cures trump idealogies. Plug the brain drain of science and let's get busy.

Hurray!

First of all there was never a ban on stem cell research, however, there was a ban on federal funding for it. Get it right you communist dirt balls.

FINALLY! After eight years of knuckle-dragging, mouth breathing, flat earth, anti-science, Repukelican party rule.....SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY MAKES A COME BACK!

Thank you, President Obama....

Posted by: PalinbotsACTIVATE!.....please? | March 6, 2009 4:30 PM

Yes lets ignore the SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY of all of the recent advances made in viable adult stem cell research in order to provide TAXPAYER provided support of another purely for ideologies sake...

If embryonic stem cell research is such a promising scientific endeavor with real promise and real potential- why wasn't any private money able to be generated to support this while the government funding was not made available ?

This is nothing to cheer about-your president is picking and choosing winners and losers in this economy and culture- this is scary stuff..

FINALLY! Since the entire world of stem cell research must rely on U.S. federally funded newly created embryoninc stem cells, and rich liberals obviously don't care about this issue enough to fund it privately, it's good this "ban" was overturned.

At the Inauguration, Poppy Bush was walking with the characteristic gait of Parkinson's disease.

So, looks like W's stem cell blockage may have come home to roost.

If you think stem cell research might provide some treatment for Parkinson's, that is.

W, hope you are enjoying the fruits of your "convictions".

Too bad so many have had to suffer for it, however, including your dad.

At the Inauguration, Poppy Bush was walking with the characteristic gait of Parkinson's disease.

So, looks like W's stem cell blockage may have come home to roost.

If you think stem cell research might provide some treatment for Parkinson's, that is.

W, hope you are enjoying the fruits of your "convictions".

Too bad so many have had to suffer for it, however, including your dad.

Looks like the irrelevant right is going to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

Too bad, so sad!

More proof that Obama is the antichrist.

Shameful

LARGEST STEM CELL BREAKTHROUGH ON MONDAY IS GOING TO MORE WITH ADVANCED CELL TECHNOLOGY THAN ANY OTHER MORE RECOGNIZED COMPANY, IN MY OPINION! THEY OWN 400 KEY PATENTS AND HAVE PRODUCTS THAT TREAT BLINDNESS, DIABETES, AND HEARTS AFTER HEART ATTACKS.

I'll say a prayer for him and the humans that will be affected by this one way or the other. It can't be easy to sit across the table from those two young daughters and think about how at one time they were embryos. It must be difficult to decide at which point a life is considered a life.

So I'll pray for him and them and us.

Well.. the party of DEATH strikes again! Congratulations! You should all be so proud. Are you all still proud of your partial birth abortion stance? Kill a baby one minute before it is born and that's perfectly legal...kill a baby one minute after it's born and you could go to jail for life!! Will any liberal step forward to defend this "progressive" belief system????

My dad's life was saved by stem cell research. They used his own stem cells to grow clean bone marrow. He has been cancer free for 4 years. No babies were harmed. He was very lucky. The words "stem cell" doesn't need to throw everybody into a panic.

FINALLY! After eight years of knuckle-dragging, mouth breathing, flat earth, anti-science, Repukelican party rule.....SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY MAKES A COME BACK!

Thank you, President Obama....

Posted by: PalinbotsACTIVATE!.....please? | March 6, 2009 4:30 PM

Here is some evidence of those neanderthal, knuckle dragging scientists that are using ADULT (non embryonic) stem cells...seems that they are wasting time removing cancer from stem cells that can then be used for useless things like curing parkinsons disease...I am sure they speak in tongues, perform exorcisms and other non-Obama approved behaviours as well...
---

http://health.yahoo.com/news/reuters/us_stemcells_parkinsons.html

I can hear freeper Wingnut heads exploding already!
http://media.photobucket.com/image/exploding%20head/horrorfx/scanners4.gif

The audacity of this president! How dare he try to reverse the Repuglican Regression of the past decade!

They'll be ranting about snow flake babies, abortion harvesting and all sorts of crazy right-wing lunatic fringe things.

There never was a "ban"
Oh sorry...I have to believe the propaghanda like palinbots.

Yes, Christofer Reeves will get out of his wheelchair now!

Oh wait...its all about ensuring abortion remains legal, not science. If it were about science and great potential we wouldn't need federal funding because private companies would be all over it...but mysteriously they're not. Somehow the dopey libs (like palinboots) fail to recognize this.

As usual, science has been prostituted by the Obama administration in order to score ideological points with its illiterate supporters.

And as usual, the headline in the above article ("Obama rescinding stem-cell research ban') is at best misleading, at worst, a deliberate lie. Because "research" was NEVER banned. Rather, President Bush decided against forcing taxpayers to fund said research.

This is just another raid on our wallets by the Obama administration. It's all about money. We earned the money through hard work, but they've come up with yet another excuse to take it from us.

The Radical Religious Right nuts who dominated our domestic policy during the BushCo reign of terror not only lost their seat at the table, but their seat has been chopped up and used as firewood in the White House.

It's about freaking time!

President Obama is keeping his promises on this and most campaign issues. Just think about what his administration has accomplished in 6 weeks! Bush's stem cell research ban was a pander to the neo-cons. He put medical research back 8 years. Embryos are not being created for research. These are existing, extra fertilized cells (because not every woman wants octuplets) that would be distroyed.

History lesson:

During the nine months leading up to 9/11 (eight months -- he had all of August for vacation) GWB was not working on antiterrorism, he was spending time on issues like this. Heckuva job.

Are you sure you didn't use a picture of a cloned Alfred e. Neuman ? It sure looks like you did. I wouldn't be surprised if you did, given the state the Incompetent One, left our nation.
As for Senator " Give the surge a chance, give the surge a chance " McCain, I wish he would practice what he preaches and give President Obama and his, less than two month old, administration, a chance. I know it still stings, Senator McCain, but you lost the election, allow the people's choice, President Obama, to do the work, he was elected to do !! It's obvious, you have joined the ranks, of the rank Republicans, who want President Obama to fail. After all, it was ex-President Alf, oops, Bush, who left us in this economic crater, that our President is trying to get us out of, at the moment !!! Might I add, without the help of the rank Republicans !!
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, BRING THEM HOME, ALIVE AND WHOLE. NOW.

"

I'll say a prayer for him and the humans that will be affected by this one way or the other. It can't be easy to sit across the table from those two young daughters and think about how at one time they were embryos. It must be difficult to decide at which point a life is considered a life.

So I'll pray for him and them and us."

What you should really pray for is that hopefully with this ruling we now have a chance to cure many diseases that those two lovely daughters of yours could get in the future. Pray that the scientist that do this research can actually help your daughters instead of hurt them.

Almost like spring of the year..new sprouts shooting up everywhere - science FINALLY breaking thru the haze/rubble of 8 years of mind-numbing NeoNut lunacy and gaining legitimacy once again as Reality slowly takes over from ignorance...

About time....feels like a potential new day!!

Yes, the rule of the fascist Bush is being wiped out. Thank you President Obama.

So you write a story about President Obama and then you run two pictures of Bush... one of them with a baby! Is this your way of saying that Bush cares about babies and Obama doesn't? Why didn't you just run a picture of Obama with a dead fetus to drive home your point?

Dear Readers -

Please do some research on stem cell research before jumping on the "political bandwagon." Stem cell has gone forward despite you, the taxpayers, paying for it. Stem cell research has also been forced to look at alternatives, such as adult stem cell (sometimes autologous stem cell) research. The results are comparable to destroying an embroyo. Think about it folks - if the stem cell can be harvested from a living adult human being - isn't that better than destroying an embroyo (now matter how you view life and when it really starts?).

Research folks . . . then talk, because most of you posters hear know nothing of which you speak.

Thank You. Maybe now people dying of cancers that need bone marrow biopsies won't have to suffer and ultimately expire due to the ignorance shown by Bushes followers. Being one myself, ( a leukemia Pt.) I am greatful to have a fighting chance. I dont think God provides scientists with knowledge they can't use to help others live.

Jerry, you need a fact check. You know nothing.

If a person has blasts that they NO LONGER WANT TO USE then it should be up to the donors to give them up and decide if said blasts can be used for research. It is NO BUSINESS of the government's to regulate this personal choice. Butt out you people who think you know what is right for everyone. This is America! Don't tell me what to do!

Get it right you communist dirt balls.

Posted by: Jason Jurek | March 6, 2009 5:18 PM

Ha ha ha ha ha communist dirt bag ha ha ha...did you think that up while you had free time in the playpen? dat weely hurt wittle boy. ha ha ha ha!!!!!

Obama=Murderer.

Plain and simple.

I have to say, I think this goes far beyond the Progressives, regardless of the part we played. There are only a few hardliner Wingnuts that stood with Bush on this one, I think most moderate Republicans believe that Bush and Co were nuts.

You know: BushCo = The rightwing religious nutjob types who don't care if countless frozen embryos are destroyed each year, as long as they don't fall into the hands of the dreaded scientists.

This is just another raid on our wallets by the Obama administration. It's all about money. We earned the money through hard work, but they've come up with yet another excuse to take it from us.

Posted by: Inconvenient Truth | March 6, 2009 6:14 PM
...................

Teresa,
We're going to take it out of the Billions that you crazy Palin Republicans have been taking from the taxpayers and spending on that useless Abstinence crap for the last eight years.

The 2009 Repukelican Party - BRAVLY LEADING AMERICA INTO THE 1800's !!

Murder of what billm??
You need to do your homework, little boy.

On August 2001, when Bush was ignoring the PDFs that were warning of the impending al-Qaida attacks, him and his rightwing religious flat earth pals were also sacrificing additional American lives by putting together his ban on federal funding of embryonic stem-cell research that President Obama is going to reverse.

Geez, I hope all the BushCo Republicans are sterile so we don't have to live through another era like that. Can we offer them a million barrels of oil if they agree to get vasectomies?

I have an idea, lets SPEND SPEND SPEND SPEND on everything, then stick taxpayers with the bill! Gosh! I could be President too!

to all those against the president recinding of the bush ban take a visit to a va parapelig ward and tell them you would rather have the stems cells destroyed instead of giving them hope.

Hopefully Obama will also lift the ban on the use of Jews, homosexulas, gypsies, and retards.

I'm being facetious because the point isn't about science but about what means we use to advance science.

How many people who don't bat an eye at the use of the remains of "aborted" babies go apocalyptic over the use of animals?
----------------------------------------
BTW, there has been a ban federal funding on new sources of stem cells, however, publicly funded researchers can access 12 existing sources of embryonic stem cells, but are not allowed to create any new sources.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn4404-europe-backs-embryonic-stem-cell-research.html

-----------------------------------------

Can someone report on the advances that have come about in stem cell research in Europe for the last five years?

I haven't heard of any. Which seems odd since it holds "so much promise".

------------------------------------------
Europe backs embryonic stem cell research
18:30 19 November 2003 by Andy Coghlan

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5209106.stm

I don't have an opinion on the issue since it's entirely a moot and no extra embryos were destroyed under President Bush's watch (embryonic stem cells are now obselete: http://www.usnews.com/blogs/heart-to-heart/2009/03/04/why-embryonic-stem-cells-are-obsolete.html), I just come to this page to marvel at the bitter, angry bile regularly spewed by "Flo." And what a flow of bile it is! People who dare disagree with her are "little boys" and "need a fact check." Boy, she sure must be fun at parties. Seriously, who can be this angry about politics all the time? The only other poster who gets anywhere near her rancor is Bill R, who conspicuously uses the same type of schoolyard taunting as his preferred form of "debate." These two deserve each other.
Anyone who's not a frothing Bill or Flo, or even one from the other side, needs to know that scientists don't need to use embryos for this research anymore. Lifting the ban means next to nothing.

* * * * *
"Why didn't you just run a picture of Obama with a dead fetus to drive home your point?"
* * * * *
Posted by: Patrick Mongoven | March 6, 2009 7:12 PM
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Probably because the dead fetus didn't want to have its picture taken with Obama.

Another "FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE" which will bring a "BRAVE NEW WORLD" and "2018" the 200 Birthday of Dr. Frankensteins "MONSTER"
a little more closer.

The questions is do we want to create the "MONSTER" again

VJ Machiavelli
http://www.vjmachiavelli.blogspot.com
NO MORE SCHUMER
NO MORE PELOSI

This is such good news - for those people who will be able to afford the treatments that will eventually result from this research. But let's not lose sight of the prize: health care for all!

He will not be going to heaven when he dies.

Posted by: Jerry | March 6, 2009 5:17 PM

There is no way to know that, even if he died right now. But your condemnation, which is only God's judgment alone, shows you may want to examine your own "Christianity".

This decision very well may save lives. But, of course, your not concerned with that.

As with all the previous research. Only stem-cells that would have been otherwise discarded will be used. They are not capable of bringing a human being into the world anyway. Why would anyone not want to use them to do some good?

Even Bush didn't stop scientists from using the "existing" lines before. This simply will open-up a previously unavailable resource that has prevented our great doctors and scientists from discovering life-saving treatments.

One issue voters begone!

If you want to embrace Christian Science and refuse medical treatment for yourself, go right ahead. In fact, I'd view that with equanimity.

Your prompter demise would mean less craziness.

But stop trying to deprive the rest of us of advances in medicine.

And stop trying to impose your flippin views on everyone else.

(By the way, how's Poppy Bush's Parkinson's doing these days??)

Or, perhaps a grand compromise: Let's all try to figure out what Allah wants.

And when that is determined, maybe we can put "In Allah we Trust" on all the US coins and currency, and on the front of all the public buildings and in all the courtrooms, etc.

What IS Allah's position on stem cell research, anyway??

Hope we can find out soon, and then everyone here can adopt it and devote resources to something else, like writing better software.

Or taking cooking classes.

Instead of having politely to listen to your rants about fetuses and baby killers and such, we could all be the beneficiaries of faster search engines and everyone could "Master the Art of French Cooking"!

In fact, you could combine that skill in areas of food shortage with Dean Swift's solution to famine!

You don't like my suggestions?

O. OK then, let's just go back to the default position:
Separation of Church & State.

Keep your flippin beliefs and practices to yourselves & stop trying to use Govenment to force them on everyone else.

Oh Jeffy.......Thanks for those kind words. I feel so humbled by your civil manners. I could only hope I could match your concern for civility on the threads. Please find these following words as my apology.

On Obama:

I trust Fred Sanford more than him, anyway.

Posted by: Jeff | March 5, 2009 5:18 PM

on the Gupta thread:

Is anyone seriously surprised that Obama takes his orders from that fat sack of dung from Michigan?

Posted by: Jeff | March 5, 2009 11:07 PM

gain......thanks for the hypocricy!

Did you look at the comment I was responding ("frothing") to, Jeff? That was bile. You're one to complain with all the hateful fibs you post. I prefer a discussion, but the froth comes in response to stupid posts.

apparently Jeff doesn't read John D, reaganiterepug, inconvenient truth, hopenchange, johnW, paulo, and himself. If it's rightie bile and froth he doesn't mind.

Posted by: VJ Machiavelli | March 7, 2009 1:19 AM

Then I guess you also would say, NO MORE ARLIN SPECTER. NO MORE BILL FRIST.

They both voted FOR the 2006 bill to extend embryonic stem cell research that Bush vetoed. Even Bill Frist for crying out loud!!! Like all reasonable, correct thinking people. (on this issue, at least) He realized, his hypocratic oath as a Dr. to cure disease by any means available, out-wieghs the "potential" ethical questoions.

This quote is from a cnn.com story about the 2006 bill:

"I am pro-life, but I disagree with the president's decision to veto the Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act," Frist said in a statement. "Given the potential of this research and the limitations of the existing lines eligible for federally funded research, I think additional lines should be made available."

Jeff, your ignorance shines again. I'm sure you are a scientist in the field and are qualified to make the statement that "lifting the ban means next to nothing". You are a neocon nutjob, and I take offense to not being on your list of vile dems on here. I must not have insulted you enough this week. I'll try harder next week.

I forgot to type on topic, so here it goes: The root question on all this abortion debate is: What is a life?. When looking up the word "life" in Webster's, it gives 49 deffinitions. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/life so that really is not going to help matters out much. My deffinition is very simple: Life supports itself. If it could not live in the 1800's and was considered dead, why do we call it living now? Just because we have technology that makes it "alive"? You idiots that try and make your claim that a fetus is a living baby because it has fingers and toes is like me trying to tell you that a corpse is alive for your same reasons. The fetus moves you tell me, and I would tell you to go look at a corpse in it's death throughs. It has a heartbeat you say, and I tell you to go look at a brain dead vegetable living off from machines. Do you get the point yet? Life sustains itself, period folks. This simple statement answers both the abortion debate as well as the end of life debates. In addition to this fact, I also believe that it is your life and you should be allowed to end it if you have terminal diseases and such. Assisted Suicide = Sweet Relief.

Also, why are you sheeple that go to church so quick to condem abortion, and doctor assisted suicide, but yet are some of the first to say we should strap jailbirds in an electric chair? You want to debate that point.......first look up which states have the highest execution rates in the country. http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/state-execution-rates and ask yourselves why the bible belt and pug states are so high on the list.

You guys are hypocrates to the greatest extent. This is why much of America ridicules the right, and this is why the rest of the world ridicules America because of your kind.

I saw the light in church one day.....it was located near the rear and it was in the shape of an open door. This coming from someone that has held anti-abortion signs in my hand and read the bible from cover to cover.

i'm a para who saw clintin approve hesc as leaveing white house only to have bush recinde it all major breakthrough have being made in other countries with hesc no co mingling federal paid labs can use non approved cells so ca had to build new labs what a waste of taxes an time far more then feds have put up ,i can't wait to form my army of cure sci to tear down the religousous scurg for good death to religion

You know: BushCo = The rightwing religious nutjob types who don't care if countless frozen embryos are destroyed each year, as long as they don't fall into the hands of the dreaded scientists.

Posted by: Inconvenient Facts | March 6, 2009 8:08 PM

You have hit the nail on the head. Why aren't Jerry, heartburn, JD, VJ Machiavelli, John W.or Inconvenient Truth all stirred up about this. Oh Yeah, they give a sh** about the taxpayers money which is needed for CEO bonuses.

* * * * *
Posted by: rupert | March 7, 2009 8:57 AM
.
What "bile" from me are you referring to? My only post on this thread was a snappy answer to a stupid question from one of your pseudo-liberal friends.
.
Oh, well. I guess it's nice to be loved anyway. (sigh.)

* * * * *
I saw the light in church one day.....it was located near the rear and it was in the shape of an open door. This coming from someone that has held anti-abortion signs in my hand and read the bible from cover to cover.
.
Posted by: Xcellentform | March 7, 2009 10:14 AM
.
And it went in your eyes, out of your ears, and none of it sank in. And neither did your education. In case you hadn't noticed, a corpse doesn't have a brain wave, feelings, a beating heart, blood flow or cellular reproduction. Fetuses in utero have all of these things. Nice try but no cigar pal.

* * * * *
Posted by: Taint Rush | March 7, 2009 4:29 PM
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Wrong ding dong. I wrote vociferously against all these bailouts - starting with Bush's bailout of Wall Street. Go back through my posts and you will see how I described as "insanity" all that spending of taxpayers money to help out the foolish cadres of Wall Street.

David J

One is already gone and the other will go in 2010, yes no more SPECTER and the OTHER TWO SENATORS Who voted for "FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE"

Dr Frankenstein took that "OATH" too

We need to be careful as we enter the "BRAVE NEW WORLD" there are plenty of other types of stem cells to use. Dr Frankenstein used any means to create his "MONSTER" he did whatever he wanted. We need "RULES"not Dr.Frankensteins anything goes.

VJ Machiavelli
http://www.vjmachiavelli.blogspot.com
NO MORE SCHUMER
NO MORE PELOSI

John W......wrong again bozo. A brain dead person has cellular reproduction, a beating heart, blood flow, "feelings", and possibly brain waves too, and yet, in the 1800's, they would not be called "brain dead", they would simply be called dead and left to die a natural death.

I went to chuch for 24 years and much of it did sink in, as did my education. What I learned about church, was that it divides the people, and does not bring people together. The education officer took copius amounts of weed to relive his pains. The treasurer officer is a flaming racist. The pastor was a manic depressent. The pastor's daughter almost committed suicide. I had a good friend of mine try to kick me out of his house because I no longer believed in his beliefs anymore.

I would say that I have a much fuller grasp on religion that you ever would Johnny. You just keep going on Sundays and listening to what you want to hear. You are in a mental rut John. I've seen it MANY times in guys your age.

Obama has no limits on his immoral and unethical actions. Giving America away through handouts, mortgage handouts and more free money. Not to mention he supports more Abortion and Gay Marriage.
My only wish is that he would not call himself a Christian. He will not be going to heaven when he dies. Not unless he accepts Jesus soon.
Posted by: Jerry
Its people like you Jerry, that make me thank the US Supreme Court Ruling on the separation of church and state ruling. Without the funds to further embryonic stem cell research many diseases or viruses that you could possibly catch could never and will never be cured. I don't know who's a bigger block on scientific research the religious nut jobs like Jerry or PETA but one way or another with this new ruling America will finally catch up with countries like France and Japan in the fields of Science and Technology.

* * * * *
Posted by: Xcellentform | March 8, 2009 12:01 PM
.
Wrong. A "brain dead" person is one with a flat electroencephalograph reading following a 24-hour observation period. That person is legally dead when it is determined to be irreversible. Furthermore, people are permitted to die today even if they aren't brain dead. Fetuses have much more going for them than that. What's more, fetuses, if allowed to be born, can exhibit not only brain waves, but intelligence too - that is, unless they become atheists and/or Democrats.
.
The kind of religion you had meant nothing if it was merely a belief system - as you indicated. If you could lose it as easily as you stated, then it was only a belief system that you carried around in your head. I don’t simply adhere to a system of belief. I have a spiritual life. I am both happy and comfortable with my faith, and I believe the best of my life is yet to come. I look forward to it because of the lives I can touch. As far as the subject matter of religion goes, I seriously doubt that you have anywhere near the grasp of it that I do - unless you have the same degree in it that I do.

Rescinding the stem cell research ban is a good thing!! It is actually pro-life and will benefit millions of people with diabetes, Parkinson's and spinal cord and neck injuries.
This administration will make decisions based on facts and science not political idealogies.

Don't take it from me, xcellent, read the link yourself, it's full of quotes from medical professionals and researchers: http://www.usnews.com/blogs/heart-to-heart/2009/03/04/why-embryonic-stem-cells-are-obsolete.html. A recent study showed that many of the hoped for breakthroughs in parkinson's and alzheimers instead created tumors and cancer. But that's not me saying that, that's US News & World Report,
Flo and others who like to throw around the term "con" around, I've always thought politicians and political commentators (and that's what your friend from Michigan is) are fair game for any of the criticism they get. They SOUGHT the public limelight and usually give as good as they get in terms of name calling. What I think is horrendously uncivil is trying to belittle your fellow posters with insults that would be best left at the third grade playground. Of course you never start it, Flo. Sure you don't.
While we're at it, though, what do you find objectionable, Bill R., about comparing Obama to Fred Sanford? I was making a joke about how the presidency ages people. I even referred to what Clinton and Bush looked like before and after their presidencies (context unsuprisingly not included by Bill Hussein R.). Many news organizations have even been reporting that his hair is turning gray. Plus, I like Fred Sanford. I always enjoyed Redd Foxx's comedy and liked how he interacted with his on LaMont on the show.
p.s. Bill, spellcheck, you really need to look into it.

John, I am completely comfortable with my position as well. I also know that the afterlife is far more likely concocted by a dirtcake eater standing up in front of his tribe telling them that there has to be something better than this. Every civilization has a belief, and most of them talk about relief of your earthly pains.

The more you type John, the more I am wondering if you are just a 20 year old know-nothing !nky that takes great pleasure in doing google searches for your responses and professing to be a know it all. What, a christian in sheeps cloths.....never!!! I'd be shocked!!!

This site should have member pages so that we can put our cards out for everyone to see.

Here is the problem of your debate you goof: At how many weeks into the pregnancy do your points become valid? Surely it can not be at inception as the pugs say? So my theory is correct in my mind. I am sure others reading here clearly see the holes in your theory.

PS. I love the clause you threw in your first paragraph. Some would say that a human is not alive until "breath (air) is breathed into them".