Obama 'basks' in wife's 'reflected glow'

by Mark Silva

President Barack Obama is perfectly content to "bask'' in the "reflected glow'' of First Lady Michelle Obama, the president's senior political advisor, David Axelrod, said today.

This, at the end of a weeklong trek across Europe in which the first lady has drawn as much attention in media circles as the president has found in diplomatic circles.

Obama's political advisor was asked about the strong response that the first lady has received along the route from London to Strasbourg and Prague and now Turkey, in a talk with John King of CNN's State of the Union today.

"I think it isn't lost, at least on the staffs, that her approval rating is higher than his,'' Axelrod said - in those inimitable words of a White House which isn't paying attention to the polls, like the Gallup Poll that put Michelle Obama's favorability rating higher than the president's.

"The fact is that... Michelle Obama has fans all across the world, but there's no greater fan than the president himself,'' Axelrod said. "And I think, you know, he's happy to bask in her reflected glow.

On the question of nuclear disarmament, King also put an interesting question to Axelrod: If the Obama administration is intent on curtailing the proliferation of nuclear weapons, King asked, "would that include leaning on the Israeli government to give up its nuclear weapons?''

"I'm not going to talk about individual nations,'' Axelrod said. "We want the whole world to be involved in this process. But it's going to take the leadership of the United States and, we hope, Russia as well. And as you know, there are many dimensions to the program the president is pursuing. We want to corral the loose nuclear weapons in Eastern Europe that pose a great threat if they fall into the wrong hands. We want to do that in the next four years.''

Below, courtesy of CNN, is the full transcript of David Axelrod's appearance on State of the Union, with John King:

(Photo, above, of Michelle Obama today at St. Vitu's Cathedral in Prague, where the president met with European Union leaders, by Hans Punz) / AP)

JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR, STATE OF THE UNION: David Axelrod, let's start with the ambitious agenda the president set out there in Prague when it comes to reducing and eliminating nuclear weapons. And let's start with the short-term proposal. The president says he wants to go back to the table with Russia, renegotiate a new START treaty -- Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty -- and do it this year. Under the current START treaty, the United States and Russia are limited to 6,000 nuclear warheads. And, in fact, both countries are already below those limits. How deep does the president want to go by the end of this calendar year?
DAVID AXELROD, SENIOR ADVISOR TO PRESIDENT OBAMA: Well, I think that's the subject of the discussion that's going to follow the meeting that he had this week with President Medvedev of Russia. And -- but the president is committed to an aggressive regime. And I think that there's a broad realization, John -- the Russians understand it, the president certainly feels it -- that this issue of nuclear proliferation has taken on a new and deadly turn with terrorism, the possibility that weapons can fall into the hands not of a rational state, but of an extremist group bent on destruction. So, I think both countries have an impetus to help lead that reduction.
KING: And the broader goal of eliminating -- eliminating the production of weapons-grade fissile material -- how realistic is that, when you look around the world and you see in Pakistan, in Iran, in North Korea, regimes that not only have nuclear programs, but are trying to advance them?
AXELROD: Well, we have to mobilize the world to be part of this process, because this is really -- this is one of the great threats, nuclear -- weapon-grade nuclear material falling into the hands of those who could fashion it into a weapon.
What we want to do is create a situation where nations that want nuclear materials for peaceful purposes, for powering their countries, can get it from an international bank, but that that material is secured, so it doesn't fall in the hands of rogue states and extremist groups.
KING: When a president more than two decades ago started down this path, the city you are standing in was still part of the Soviet Union. Inside the Berlin Wall, the Iron Curtain, President Reagan made a mark with the Soviets in reducing nuclear weapons. Is President Obama's goal a legacy of a world free of nuclear weapons?
AXELROD: There's no question about it, John. And he said that during the campaign. He believes that now. He's acting on that.
You know, obviously, we live in a dangerous world, and we can't unilaterally disarm. But we can lead the movement to corral these nuclear weapons and begin that process of reduction. And that would be the goal, to remove this scourge from the face of the Earth, and take away that threat that hangs over us now.
KING: It's a subject no American administration likes to talk about, but would that effort include leaning on the Israeli government to give up its nuclear weapons?
AXELROD: I'm not going to talk about individual nations, John. I think all of -- we want the whole world to be involved in this process. But it's going to take the leadership of the United States and, we hope, Russia as well. And as you know, there are many dimensions to the program the president is pursuing. We want to corral the loose nuclear weapons in Eastern Europe that pose a great threat if they fall into the wrong hands. We want to do that in the next four years.
We want to finally ratify the Test Ban Treaty that has languished for years and years. We want to update the nuclear proliferation treaty. So, we have an ambitious agenda that's equal to the threat we face.
KING: Let's talk more broadly about the trip to Europe. The pictures have been fascinating. The president's reception has been overwhelmingly positive. Most of the news accounts talk about mixed results in terms of the substance. Some progress at the G-20, but not as much stimulus spending from France and Germany as the United States would have liked for their economies.
At the NATO summit, some short-term commitments of troops to help around the Afghan elections, and certainly some important financial commitments. But no major investment of troops from NATO companies (sic) to go along with the risky, big commitments the president is making here with new U.S. troops in Afghanistan. Is that how you see it?
AXELROD: No. I really don't, John. I think the G-20 was really successful. I think it was the most successful international conference in response to a financial crisis that's ever been held.
There has been trillions of dollars of commitment made over the last few months. As part of the process that led up to this, to this summit, there was agreement to pursue aggressive financial regulatory reform, so that the kinds of things that happened that caused this crisis won't happen again -- to set up early warning systems, as well, to add to the International Monetary Fund $1.1 trillion, and the World Bank and some of these other agencies that can help countries who are in desperate shape right now as a result of the crisis -- and keep markets open for American businesses.
So, a lot was accomplished at this conference.
In terms of NATO, I disagree with your interpretation. The president, after 60 days of review, unveiled a strategy about a week ago, and the world has embraced that strategy. The NATO countries have embraced it, today -- over this weekend.
And Secretary Clinton met with foreign ministers from 80 nations earlier in the week at the Hague. And there's been unanimous support for this.
And there were strong, tangible expressions of that support at the NATO meeting: thousands of military personnel to help secure the elections that are coming up in Afghanistan on August 20th, which is the next great test in this process; thousands more to help train army personnel, police; half-a-billion dollars to help revive the Afghan economy, because that's a very important part of this mix, it's not just a military challenge; and additional money to help, in a fund to help build up the Afghan army, so they can defend themselves.
So, there was an awful lot that was accomplished. Eleven new countries are now participating in this process.
And there was a broad recognition on the part of NATO that this is the right strategy, that this is -- that the threat of al Qaeda is an existential threat for all of us. And we have to meet that challenge together.
KING: You mentioned the threat of al Qaeda there. One of the overriding goals of the trip at every stop, the president has been trying to tell this European audience that he is not George W. Bush.
Many viewed George W. Bush in Europe as a cowboy diplomat, if you will.
But striking at a town hall in Strasbourg, France, when the president was talking about the threat of al Qaeda and how the world still has to keep its eye on that terrorist threat, interesting language. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Al Qaeda is still a threat. And that we cannot pretend somehow that, because Barack Hussein Obama got elected as president, suddenly everything's going to be OK.
It is going to be a very difficult challenge.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: David Axelrod, what is the message there? And was the use of his middle name -- Barack Hussein Obama -- was that somehow calculated?
AXELROD: Well, that was in answer to a question. I'm sure the president used his full name for a reason. But the most important thing here is that the president was very candid with the Europeans about our mutual responsibilities. He was candid about ours, and he was candid about theirs.
And what was most interesting to me, John, standing at that town hall, was the enormously positive reception he received from an audience of people who heard him make the case for why we had to be engaged in Afghanistan, who might have been expected to oppose the U.S. on this in the past, but who understood the case he was making.
And I think the greatest benefit of all, as much as we've accomplished on this trip, is that he has sent a signal to the world that we're re-engaged, that we want to build alliances that are based on mutual respect and mutual responsibilities, and that we're prepared to lead, and we're also prepared to listen. And the response has been truly dramatic everywhere we've gone.
So, I think that bodes well for America, because as strong and as powerful and as resourceful as we are, we know that some of the problems we face -- many of the problems we face today -- are problems that are global in scope and require a partnership to deal with. And so, I think we took a big step in forging -- reforging that partnership -- and strengthening that partnership this week.
KING: A predominantly young crowd at that town hall. The president will also sit down in Turkey with young Muslims, sit around a table with young Muslim students. What is he hoping to accomplish there in the context of what you know to be a horrible image of the United States in much of the Muslim world?
AXELROD: Yes, but, you know, the president has been very -- first of all, that wasn't always the case, and it doesn't need to be the case. The president has always -- has been, throughout his campaign and throughout his young presidency -- he's reached out to the Muslim world. Most Muslims are not part of extremist groups, and they've been done great damage by these groups.
We have a great interest in forging a partnership with Muslim nations and Muslim people across the world. And the president has worked at that. There is no reason why we have to accept a world in which we are walled-off from people in whom we should have an interest, and who should have a sense of investment in us. And so, this is part of the dialogue.
KING: First big international trip is a heady moment for any new president. On a lighter note, I'm wondering, since you just flew into Prague on Air Force One, how is the president enjoying traveling in his wife's shadow?
(LAUGHTER)
AXELROD: Yes, that's -- you know, I think he's used to that, to be honest with you. I think he resigned himself to that long ago. Michelle was hugely well received along the way here, and has done a number of events on her own, communing with...
KING: They're joking back and forth.
AXELROD: ... (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and young people.
KING: Do they joke back and forth about that? The headlines?
AXELROD: I don't know. But I think it isn't lost, at least on the staffs, that her approval rating is higher than his. I don't know what that engenders behind closed doors. But, you know, I mean, the fact is that the president -- Michelle Obama has fans all across the world, but there's no greater fan than the president himself. And I think, you know, he's happy to bask in her reflected glow.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: Let me close with a couple of quick domestic political questions.
While you were overseas, the unemployment rate here in the United States hit 8.5 percent. Your administration's budget projects an 8.1 percent unemployment rate for this year. And that's not just a number. That means, if the number stays higher than that 8.1 percent, your math doesn't add up, because the government is paying out more in unemployment benefits. Those people unemployed aren't contributing to consumer spending, to tax revenues the government needs.
At what date on the calendar, if the unemployment rate stays higher than you initially thought when you made the budget up a couple of months back, at what point will you have to sit down and say, OK, we need to rethink the numbers, and either find more revenue or scale back our ambitions?
AXELROD: Well, John, you know, we obviously -- we understood when we came into office that we were -- we were flying into the teeth of a dramatically bad economy, and also handed a dramatically bad budget situation.
And we moved forward on the economic recovery package, because we knew the economy needed a jolt. We also knew that was going to take some time for that to work its way through the system. Unemployment -- you know, it's taken years to get into this mess. It's going to take more than a few months to get out of it. Our hope -- you know, there are some hopeful signs, a few sparks beginning. In the housing market, people refinancing in large numbers, which is going to help put money in their pockets and money in our economy. Durable goods sales are up.
There are some statistics that show maybe things are beginning to move. But unemployment -- or employment, I should say -- is always the last number to move. And that's a painful thing, because it's a tragedy for families across the country.
So, in the interim, you know, and part of the recovery package is to provide the kind of support people need to get through this. But we do believe we're going to get through it, and we're doing the things that we should.
I think the budget will lay the groundwork for future economic growth. Our recovery package, I think, will help create short-term growth. And over time, we'll work our way out of this.
But it's a tough situation, and the president's been very candid with the American people about the fact that it's going to take a while for us to dig out of the hole we're in.
KING: You mentioned the budget. You were the architect of a campaign in which the president said he was going to change the way Washington does business. It was going to become a more bipartisan town.
Not one Republican, in the House or the Senate, voted for the president's budget. Why? What happened?
AXELROD: Well, John, you should more properly ask that question to the Republican leadership and members of the House and the Senate.
All we can do is create a dialogue, and reach out and exchange ideas, and welcome people in. If they don't want to walk through the door, there's not a lot we can do.
The president wants to work with anybody who wants to work with him to move this country forward. But the most important thing is that we move the country forward.
And we were gratified to get a very strong vote out of both the House and the Senate, for the budget resolutions that really embraced his main priorities: an energy program that'll create millions of jobs and make us energy independent, an education program that'll make our kids competitive in this 21st century economy, and a health care reform that will cut the costs of health care for families and businesses and government -- all of which are on an unsustainable path here. These costs are crushing everyone.
So, these are things we need to do to build a stronger economy, and we're committed to doing them.
KING: You say that, if the Republicans fall -- we had the Senate Republican leader, Mitch McConnell, on the program last week. And he said it's the president's fault. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL, R-KY, SENATE MINORITY LEADER: We've had plenty of conversations.
But I must say, I'm disappointed after two months. The president has not governed in the middle, as I had hoped he would.
But it's not too late. He's only been in office a couple of months. Still before him are the opportunities to deal with us on a truly bipartisan basis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Answer Senator Mitch McConnell, who says you guys have meetings and say nice things, but you're not really giving them a chance to put any proposals on the table.
AXELROD: Well, that's not true. And I think there were -- we embraced a number of their ideas, and many amendments were adopted in both houses in the Recovery Act. There were Senate amendments that were adopted, that were sponsored by Republicans. Look. The bottom line is, as I look at the Republican budget, as they've proposed it, it's almost as if they Xeroxed their economic plans from the last eight years, and they want to go at it again.
Well, we know what that's led to. And I don't think the American people want to go there. So, you know, cooperation, collaboration doesn't mean submission to a failed doctrine. And we just can't afford that. So, I hope that, as we move forward, the Republicans will play a constructive role in this dialogue.
We're going to -- the president's going to keep on reaching out and keep talking. And, you know, he believes that over time, people can find things on which they can move forward together. And that's the way he's always operated. That's the way he's going to continue to operate.
KING: A couple weeks back on the program, we had the former vice president of the United States. And I know from talking to people high up at the White House, that many officials, including you, were not so happy at the message former Vice President Cheney delivered -- sharp criticism of your boss on a number of fronts, including this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Do you believe the president of the United States has made Americans less safe?
DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I do.
I think those programs were absolutely essential to the success we enjoyed, of being able to collect the intelligence that let us defeat all further attempts to launch attacks against the United States since 9/11.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: I wanted to give you a chance to respond to Mr. Cheney.
AXELROD: Well, first of all, I find it supremely ironic, on a day when we were meeting with NATO, to talk about the continued threat from al Qaeda in Afghanistan and Pakistan, where they're still plotting against us eight years -- or seven years later.
I think the question for Mr. Cheney is, how could that be? How could this have gone so long? Why are they still in business?
That is the fundamental threat that we face. And it's a little incredible to me that he would -- that he would argue somehow that what we're doing in forging an international alliance to finally pursue a strategy to defeat and dismantle al Qaeda in Afghanistan, is going to make us less safe.
I think it was an unfortunate statement.
And let me say, in contrast, how much we appreciate the way President Bush has behaved. He was incredibly cooperative during the transition. And when he left he said, "I wish you guys the best. I'm rooting for you."
I believe that to be the case. And he's behaved like a statesman.
And as I've said before, here and elsewhere, I just don't think the memo got passed down to the vice president.
KING: David, I want to ask you in closing. As you know, we travel every week around the country. And we spend a lot of time with union autoworkers, most of whom supported President Obama in the campaign.
They are very nervous about the future of their companies, GM and Chrysler, GM in specific. We were in Tennessee this week.
GM's latest submission to the government said it would shrink to 71,000 autoworkers here in the United States. And as you know, the administration said, sorry. That's not enough. You need to cut deeper. You need to restructure more boldly and more aggressively.
Talk to your constituency out there that's a little nervous about the president of the United States and other people in Washington calling the shots for their business.
How many more jobs is GM going to have to slash to be viable?
AXELROD: Look, John. First of all, what's happened in the auto industry is a tragedy -- a tragedy for so many families, and tragedy for the country. We've lost 400,000 auto jobs in the last year, just to put this in perspective.
But what happened was that the auto companies came to us and said, we need your assistance and the assistance of American taxpayers to survive.
And what we said to them is, we want you to survive. We need a viable auto industry. We want to preserve as many auto jobs as possible, and we want to see you grow. But you have to have a plan that is reasonable, viable, that can work.
And the president has an obligation to ask for that, and that's what he's done. And we're going to work with them through this period to try and produce such a plan.
But it is a difficult situation.
And, you know, one of the things the president did last week was to set up an office to deal with -- and establish a director to deal with
-- the dislocation in the auto communities, and to try and marshal resources to bring new business and new industry to these areas, so that people aren't left without hope or opportunity.
We have to do everything we can to help these communities through.
But the answer is not to embrace a failing model at the oil -- at the auto companies. The answer is to insist and demand a model that will work, so those jobs -- so that we're not losing jobs, but we're gaining jobs over time.
KING: A lot of ground to cover. And we've taken more of your time than we promised.
David Axelrod, senior advisor to the president, thanks for joining us from Prague.
AXELROD: John, great to be with you.
KING: Take care, David.
AXELROD: Thank you.
END