Notre Dame, Obama: 'fake controversy'

Pat Buchanan has been making money off of other people's ignorance since he started working for Reagan and he is still making a living that way !! He's the Grandpappy of Limpbag, Hannity and O'Really !! Every where you look, within the Republican ranks, all one can find are nitwits, halfwits and no-wits !! The Republican Party doesn't need a makeover, it needs serious surgery and I sure, in the heck, don't mean, Doctor Frist !!
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, BRING THEM HOME, ALIVE AND WHOLE. NOW.

ratings ratings ratings.

I'm sure this whole issue is the first thing on Americans minds right now. There is nothing more important to worry about now.

So Cardinal George and several Catholic bishops are now "religioius fanatics?" Or the c0untless Notre Dame students and alum who are against Obama's speech at Notre Dame are "religious fanatics" too? Are all people who are against abortion "religious fanatics?" Actually, in the eyes of the baby-killing loving Loony Left, yes, those who are pro-life are religious fanatics. The reality is that most pro-abortionists get aroused at even the thought of a baby being aborted. They revel the ideal and love it that millions of babies have been aborted. In fact, they wish there were morre because that would be fewer people to damage the planet.
If loony lefties are so worried about the number of people on this planet and love abortions so much, then why don't the Loons on the Left do all of Earthkind a favor and just commit suicide?? Problems solved!

This really is another controversy among only the dumb. If Catholics want a politician who fits their litmus test, have Kansas Senator Sam Brownback speak at commencement. He is pro-life, anti-death penalty, and against stem cell research. George W. Bush and his executions and warmongering are odds at with the church the same way Obama's views on abortion and stem cell research are at odds with the church. Religious fundamentals have chosen abortion as the ultimate sin, however, making Obama more culpable in their eyes than our last president even though both hold views contradictory to church teachings.

Buchanan's meltdown? How slanted is that? The other guy seemed a bit more frazzled than Pat. A little bit of objectivity would be nice.

I think Notre Dame needs to start making their student athletes take a test on their adherence to Catholic values if they are going to apply litmus tests to President Obama.

Seems morally consistent to me!

Now let's see how well that goes over to the alumni!!

A couple of points. 1) Anyone who thinks the Catholic Church is any kind of an autority on morality hasn't been paying attention. Their coddling of the Nazis during WWII and the recent problems with gay pedophilia give them all the moral credibility of Johnny Fairplay. 2) O'Donnell is right, the Catholic Church is anti abortion AND anti death penalty. That is just a fact.

As a very-moderated pro-choice Catholic, let me first say that this Lawrence O'donnell guy was extremely dis-respectful. He should not have talked over and interupted Buchanan's comments so often. And I actually, kind of, like Buchanan as a person, though I often disagree with his opinions.

Now, any university worth its salt, be it Catholic, public or any other affilliation, has a moral obligation to foster an enviroment of complete academic freedom and discussion, regardless of whether a particular topic is in contrast to their "values".

Keep in mind that this situation is not Obama's fault. Even Buchanan seemed to indicate that, this controversy was caused by the "invitation" itself, not the acceptance of that invitation.

Catholic church teaching is clear that all life is precious at all stages. Certainly an innocent child's life is different from that of a convicted murderer. But I think Buchanan is missing the point on that. When the discussion turned to the death penalty, he asked " why did the priest go into the death chamber with criminals?", as if this was an endorsement of the death penalty from the church. Actually, the exact opposite is true. A priest accompanies a condemned inmate to the death chamber to offer support, and forgiveness and absolution, if the inmate is willing to accept it. It really would have nothing to do with the death penalty as an issue at all.

Also, Buchanan saying Bush only "allowed" executions is splitting hairs. The same can be said about Obama. He only "allows" the option of abortion. Actually, in this case, it makes Bush look worse. Bush actually could have specifically done something to prove he cares about life by sparing the inmates from execution. Even if "Roe vs. Wade" were over turned, and even if Obama supported it, there would be nothing anyone could do to prevent women from having an abortion "illegally".

Buchanan also said, "In the United States, EVERYBODY who goes to execution is guilty of murdering someone." History shows that is NOT true. As good as our justice system is, there have been, and will continue to be, mistakes that every so often sends innocent people to jail. And in rare occassions, ends up with an innocent person being put to death.

BTW, Bush was invited to ND at the same time of his presidency as Obama. May of 2001. So, I think, to make a fair argument, the Iraq war and other items after that need to be left out. To use Pope JPII's condemnation of the invasion of Iraq would be "after the fact", and is therefore not relevant for a true comparison.

Buchanan defends Bush by claiming he never personally executed anyone. Yet, Obama never performed an abortion. So, Bush is OK but Obama is not. I do not understand why Buchanan's head does not explode.

"Fake controversy" Oh my God...now the media is calling any criticism of this guy "fake?" "religious fanatics" No!...Catholics are not religious fanatics....I wonder what O'Donnell thought about a guy like Rev. Wright????

What a bunch of hypocrites !!! They let Bush talk without incident even though Bush had the opportunity to save those people from execution (think George Ryan) and didn't. But they are against Obama who no matter what he thinks has to follow the law of the land.

No wonder no one wants to be Catholic anymore.

I agree entirely with O'Donnell - I made the same point in a posting last week. The Catholic Church's opposition to the death penalty is just as absolute as its opposition to abortion. How and why is it that politicians who support the death penalty aren't publically castigated by the Catholic Church hierarchy the way pro-choice politicians are? (Especially governers - like "born again" George W. Bush - who have the power to commute death sentances to terms of life in prison.) The Catholic Church's (and Notre Dame bashers') double standard on this issue is staggerring.

Salon dot com had a good story on this issue a week or so ago. There is a movement afoot to chase away the more liberal Catholics from the church (And--ha, ha, ha--good luck with that!) so that only fetus-worshipping conservatives like Buchanan, Bill Donohue, Bob Novak, and Sen. Sam Brownback remain. Obama's speech at Notre Dame is this group's most notable issue to that cause to date. But it ain't gonna work . . .

Although I do not care whether anyone speaks at Notre Dame or not, attempting to equate the execution of murderers to the termination of innocent unborn children is ridiculous. Mr. O’Donnell come up with a new improved argument please. There are better ones, such as stating that Notre Dame is no longer a Catholic Institution.

Yeah, right, Pat.

Keep fanning those flames.

You are the only true believer, we all know that.

You have been chosen by God as the channel of all wisdom.

Keep it up.

However, after about 40 years of it, don't you think it is getting a little tired?

Seems you've failed as a persuader, in any event.

Salon dot com had a good story on this issue a week or so ago. There is a movement afoot to chase away the more liberal Catholics from the church (And--ha, ha, ha--good luck with that!) so that only fetus-worshipping conservatives like Buchanan, Bill Donohue, Bob Novak, and Sen. Sam Brownback remain. Obama's speech at Notre Dame is this group's most notable issue to that cause to date. But it ain't gonna work . . .

The issue here is one of catechesis. All one has to do is read the section of the CCC on the Fifth Commandment. There is a clear distinction made between abortion and other instances of taking life. Mr. Buchanen's question to Mr. O'Donnell,"where did you go to (Catholic) high school?" is apt because he( Mr. O'Donnell) is clearly is lacking in fundamental knowledge of the faith.

If loony lefties are so worried about the number of people on this planet and love abortions so much, then why don't the Loons on the Left do all of Earthkind a favor and just commit suicide?? Problems solved!

Posted by: John D | April 10, 2009 9:16 AM

You are a MORON!

The leadership of the Catholic church is infested with bigots and hypocrites who misrepresent the Bible and Cardinal George is leading the charge. Someone needs to remind George that abortions are legal and women have a right to receive an abortion. If he can't handle it that his problem. Let these folks demonstrate about Obama speaking at ND but lets keep the demonstrators fenced off to the side without water or the use of restrooms and out of view from the ceremony.

"Pat Buchanan meltdown" No it was Lawrence O'Donnell's melt down. The morally bankrupt, liar, leftist propagandist and certifiable loon does not understand the difference between murdering a child and executing a convicted mass murderer. as most liberals don't. He also doesn't understand (really doesn't want to) the difference between letting Obama speak and honoring him at the commencement. Note Buchanan is reasoned, amused and laughing while the skunk rants, raves and talks over him. Of course liberals like the author here never let reality or even the evidence of their own senses intrude into their little world of religious bigotry and moral relativism.

Buchanan demeans himself by even speaking to such intellectually dead creatures. This is also a fine example of why the Trib and other propaganda rags like it will soon disappear. A child couldn't take this article seriously. Were the writer and the editors on dope when they did this?

Notre Dame, the "embodiment and transmitter'' of Catholic values and truths, cannot possibly condone a commencement address from a president who supports abortion rights, Buchanan says in this face-off with Lawrence O'Donnell on MSNBC's Hardball
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Liberals have their ONE issue litmus test for Supreme Court nominees. This is our (Catholics) one-issue litmus test. The official Church position opposes the death penalty but there is still some room for debate, there, and it is generally not the issue that Catholics are genuinely passionate about.

Catholics voted for Obama probably 56%, I would guess, and the majority probably still support him, I would guess again. But inviting a pro-abortion president / politician to speak at a Catholic institution is an whole different game of go-along-get-along. There is going to be some sincere opposition to that. This is our one-issue litmus test. Liberals should be able to at least relate to that.

This is from a speech by Joseph Cardinal Bernadin (one of the men I have admired most in my lifetime) called "A Consistent Ethic of Life: Continuing the Dialogue". Buchanan might want to check it out. Noone is saying the "Innocent unborn child" and the "Convicted murderer" are equals. But you lack crediblility if you don't consistently treat their lives as equally precious. To read the entire speech, click the link below.

"Each of the issues I have identified today—abortion, war, hunger and human rights, euthanasia and capital punishment—is treated as a separate, self-contained topic in our public life. Each is distinct, but an ad hoc approach to each one fails to illustrate how our choices in one area can affect our decisions in other areas. There must be a public attitude of respect for all of life if public actions are to respect it in concrete cases."

http://www.priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bernardinwade.html

Per John D:

"The reality is that most pro-abortionists get aroused at even the thought of a baby being aborted. They revel the ideal and love it that millions of babies have been aborted."

That's a bit excessive even by your standards, isn't it. Actually "getting aroused" by abortions. My guess is no one in history has ever gotten aroused by such an awful thing. You really need to scale this stuff back.

This is all about ratings. Buchanan's a hothead and so is O'Donnell. That's why they get so much airtime.

Obama is taking much more disrespectful and intensely personal heat from the conservative kooks in the media and on Capitol Hill than anything George Bush received.

http://www.political-buzz.com/

A a practicing Catholic who follows the teaching of the Magisterium, I think that media outlets would do well to restrict discussions of things Catholic to: (1)those who are Catholic (2)those who are actively practicing the Faith. By active, I mean those who do more than attend Mass on Easter and Christmas for social reasons (3)those who have a knowledge of the fundamentals of the Faith(4)those who understand what an ad hominem attack is. It is really too cumbersome to bother to refute cranks who troll the blogs in order to disparage a Faith which has survived and prospered for over 2,000 years!

Posted by: little gal | April 10, 2009 12:23 PM

The morally bankrupt, liar, leftist propagandist and certifiable loon does not understand the difference between murdering a child and executing a convicted mass murderer.

Posted by: Walter | April 10, 2009 11:15 AM

In the eyes of the Catholic Church, there is no moral difference between aborting a child and executing a criminal. They are both serious instances of sin in violation of the commandement, "Thou Shalt not Kill".

From the Catholic Cathchism:

"2267 The traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude, presupposing full ascertainment of the identity and responsibility of the offender, recourse to the death penalty, when this is the only practicable way to defend the lives of human beings effectively against the aggressor.
"If, instead, bloodless means are sufficient to defend against the aggressor and to protect the safety of persons, public authority should limit itself to such means, because they better correspond to the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.
"Today, in fact, given the means at the State's disposal to effectively repress crime by rendering inoffensive the one who has committed it, without depriving him definitively of the possibility of redeeming himself, cases of absolute necessity for suppression of the offender 'today ... are very rare, if not practically non-existent.' [68] "

Any time the word religion is mentioned...liberals just freak out! For all you liberals who hate organized religion and people of faith, are you aware that two of your major voting blocks are very religious??? Yes!...African Americans and Hispanics overall have strong religious faith! Why do you only hate white, Christian conservatives?? I think we all know why you viciously attack Christian Conservatives...because the don't vote for Democrats. So it's really has nothing to do with religion...but every thing to do with voting and the radical liberal agenda that you want to stuff down our throats!

Pat Buchanan is a racist....end of story.

I saw this debate. It was awesome.
O'Donnell wiped the floor with Buchanan for his and the Evangelical's hypocrisy over abortion and the death penalty. At least the Catholic Church is consistent being against both. I will say this though, if the Catholic Church wants to continue playing politics then they should have their tax exempt status revoked. I'm tired of listening to all of these radical right-wing religious nuts playing politics from the pulpit.

Buchanan is truly twisted and inhuman. He kept likening fetuses and even blastocysts, to "innocent children," and then promoting the killing of People via the Death Penalty. Never even talking about the hundreds of People who have had wrongful Death Sentences overturned through DNA, and other evidence. There isn't anything more immoral than the state executing innocent people.

If that's not bad enough, earlier this week, Buchanan was ranting: "My God, can't we find somebody to kill," in Somalia.

The big problem with the religious whackjobs on the right is that they're all hypocrites. So far this year, Buchanan has been cheerleading for more killing in Somalia, North Korea, Iran, Gaza, Iraq, etc. How does such inhumanity grace our TV screens, each day?

the Pat Buchanan meltdown?

Blinkin, sorry but there are pro-abortionists who revel in the abortion act. Late-term abortions, they love them! Think of Dr. Tiller the Baby Killer in Kansas who performs late-term abortions as late as a meer week or two before birth. Pro-abortionists will do anything to keep late-term abortions legal. They will do anything to make it so the parent has no right to know if their own child is getting an abortion, even in other states. They revel at the idea of taking parent's rights and responsibilities away. And my going "overboard" isno different than O'Donnell and other Leftists calling those who are pro-life "religious fanatics."
As far as the Catholic Church is concerned, I am not Catholic nor do I agree with some of their beliefs and practices, but to each his own. Yes, the Church failed BIG TIME regarding the pedophile priests, or some elements within. I have voted for pro-choice candidates almost as much as pro-life candidates. That belief does not sway my vote one way or the other, but I myself am very pro-life and believe abortions should be conducted in very rare instances. It is a life, though I certainly do not equate the life of an innocent child to that of a murderer. The Bible does allow for man to enact such punishments as the death penalty. The ultimate decider regarding that person's ultimate fate rests with God.

Lawrence must have failed to read his Catechism book, part 2266 "preserving the common good of society requires rendering the aggressor unable to inflict harm. For this reason the traditional teaching of the Church has acknowledged as well-founded the right and duty of legitimate public authority to punish malefactors by means of penalties commensurate with the gravity of the crime, NOT EXCLUDING, in cases of extreme gravity, THE DEATH PENALTY." The Church is not against the death penalty as punishment but would probably disagree with Obama that pregnancy would be a form of punishement should his children make a mistake.

Actually, Pitchfork Pat talked himself into a rhetorical dead end as soon as he claimed Bush was innocent because he (Bush) never really executed anyone personally.
O'Donnell correctly pointed out that Obama has never performed, personally an abortion either.
Pat couldn't answer that one, but kept on babbling anyway.
Pat also made the incredible claim that every one of the people executed was guilty. That's a statement that can't be proven. It's a know fact that prosecutors and police rig the process all the time. It's seems statistically certain that at some point an innocent person was executed in TX.

Posted by: John D | April 10, 2009 3:01 PM

And you gun nuts on the right love killing just as much. This has been a great month for you gun lovers. All these mass shootings, look at all those poeople using the guns you worship for exactly what they were designed for, killing other human beings. I bet you were thrilled when you read about how that guy in New York slaugheterd all those people with his precious guns, weren't you John? I bet you were proud of him using his Second mendment rights so forcefully. Did you revel in the shooting of those cops? I bet you really loved that. You guys will do anything to make sure that people can kill quickly and efficiently.

Posted by: Rob in Cleveland | April 10, 2009 3:51 PM

Rob, shame on you. Lying is a sin.

I posted the entire section fronm the Catechism on this thread earlier. Unlike you I included the next 2 paragraphs. I will repost it here as a reminder.

"If, instead, bloodless means are sufficient to defend against the aggressor and to protect the safety of persons, public authority should limit itself to such means, because they better correspond to the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.
"Today, in fact, given the means at the State's disposal to effectively repress crime by rendering inoffensive the one who has committed it, without depriving him definitively of the possibility of redeeming himself, cases of absolute necessity for suppression of the offender 'today ... are very rare, if not practically non-existent.'

Lawrence understand the catechism perfectly. You do not. The Church is very much against the Death Penalty as punishment in our modern world.

John D...you are a sick,brainwashed moron for blaming law abiding gun owners for the action of a maniac!!!! Be real careful about your hatred of anyone who owns a gun legally...you might just end up hating your neighbor, a family member, or even a bunch of liberal politicians!!!! I'll bet even hypocrites like Keith Olberman own a gun.

Posted by: Rob in Cleveland | April 10, 2009 3:51 PM

Wrong!!! The Church is adamantly against the death penalty in ALL circumstances. "preserving the common good of society requires rendering the aggressor unable to inflict harm" can be adequately accomplished through prison. Which, over time, allows the "sinner" a chance to reconcile with God. The death penalty takes away the opportunity for redemption.

"The ultimate decider regarding that person's ultimate fate rests with God."
Posted by: John D | April 10, 2009 3:01 PM

I agree with you. But that statement, John D, is actually a good argument "against" the death penalty. I would personally like to see much tougher "truth in sentencing" guidelines. No parole EVER for the most heinous crimes.

The death penalty is a worse moral afront than abortion. The woman/dr./nurse, who particpates in an abortion only hurts their own soul by individually committing that sin.

But the state sanctioned murder that is the death penalty, acts as if they are speaking for the entire community. Which, of course, they are not.

On this Good Friday, let us not forget the Christ died for all our sins. And he even promised a murderer who was crucified next to Him a place with him in Heavan.

When is enough: You forgot to mention the man who killed the 4 cops in Oakland, and the community of Oakland who defended the murderer - did you leave that one out on purpose or because he was not white. Sometimes people do things because they're sick and dellusional, sometimes they do things because they're just thugs. Were you proud of the man who shot the Oakland officers?

Posted by: vla | April 10, 2009 5:33 PM

No, I wasn't proud of him, but I'm sure the NRA and all the gun nuts were. I'm sure they all see him as a great american hero using his second amendment rights to kill the officials of an oppressive govenrment. That guy is the picture of what the right thinks the perfect american should be. I'm sure you praise him, don't you vla?

Joe, I did not blame law-abiding gun owners for a maniac, that was some person called "when is enough." You must read these posts closely, especially when one poster refers to another.

Ok the difference with Notre Dame inviting Bush vs Obama is VERY big. As someone said before, they were invited at the same time in there presidency...so the war in Iraq hadn't been started he hadn't had much time to preform any major actions.

Notre Dame doesn't want Obama to speak because of his VIEWS on abortion not what he has done already. Had Bush shared the same VIEWS we would have felt the same way as we do towards Obama. It's not like Catholics don't like Obama but its the fact that he is speaking at a Catholic school and the views he has are the exact opposite of a lot of Catholic values.

So stop saying Notre Dame is making something out of nothing. They are standing up for there views and I would be very disappointed if they didn't. That would show a weak school community as a whole.

sorry but there are pro-abortionists who revel in the abortion act.
Posted by: John D | April 10, 2009 3:01 PM

Yes, there are some twisted people in all lines of work, Including American soldiers. There are some who are like Francis (aka Psycho) from the movie "Stripes". "All I know is I finally get to KILL somebody."

Notre Dame should not give a platform nor an honor to Obama who enables the murder of unborn babies, the murder of partially born babies, the murder of babies born alive from botched abortions, the murder of his grandchild so as to not punish his daughter with a baby. Obama also regretted his vote to allow a family to appeal the murder of their disabled daughter by Judge Greer through starving and dehydrating her to death over a 14 day period.

"Notre Dame" is NOT objecting to Obama's address -- the administration of the university invited him. The arrogance of the people who call themselves Notre Dame, as if they are somehow the "true" university, is astounding.

In the last act of his life, Jesus Christ gave salvation to a condemned man. That is why priests are available to those about to be executed.

In one of his earliest public acts, Jesus Christ spared a woman whom the law said should be executed -- and who WAS guilty of the crime. His admonition to her? "Go and sin no more." And He would know if she had or not, so judgment was reserved for Him.

Who are we to decide that God has had enough time to save someone? It seems clear from the Gospels that the Christian should value ALL life as from God. Are these people trying to tell us that there are some things God cannot do?

For all I know, the good bishop of Ft. Wayne, or Cardinal George, DID object to a governor who signed so many death warrants being invited to speak at Notre Dame. We know that the political hacks who wrap themselves in vestments when it suits their worldly ends did not.

Unfortunately, they get the screen time.

O'Donnell doesn't have a clue:

2004, Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XVI) Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, with guidance to the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, stated succinctly, emphatically and unambiguously as follows: June, 2004 "Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia." http://www.catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=1125
Cardinal Theodore E. McCarrick: More Concerned with 'Comfort' than Christ?, Catholic Online, 7/11/2004

What Ardent Practicing Catholics Do (1)
By Fr. John De Celles, 9/1/2008

"Abortion and euthanasia are thus crimes which no human law can claim to legitimize. There is … a grave and clear obligation to oppose them … [I]t is therefore never licit to … "take part in a propaganda campaign in favor of such a law, or vote for it."

In other words: it is always a grave or mortal sin for a politician to support abortion.

Now, some will want to say that these bishops-and I- are crossing the line from Religion into to politics. But it was the Speaker of the House (Nancy Pelosi) who started this. The bishops, and I, are not crossing into politics; she, and other pro-abortion Catholic politicians, regularly cross over into teaching theology and doctrine, And it's our job to try clean up their mess.

But there's something more than that here. On Sunday, before the whole nation, she claimed to be an "ardent, practicing Catholic." Imagine if someone came in here and said "I'm a mafia hit man and I'm proud of it." Or "I deal drugs to little children." Or "I think black people are animals and it's okay to make them slaves, or at least keep them out of my children's school."

Are these "ardent practicing Catholics"? No, they are not."

And neither is a person who ardently supports and votes to fund killing 1 to 1.5 million unborn babies every single year. Especially if that person is in a position of great power trying to get others to follow her. Someone, for example, like a Catholic Speaker of the House, or a Catholic candidate for Vice President of the United States, or a Catholic senior Senator who is stands as the leading icon his political party. Like the proud and unrepentant murderer or drug dealer, they are not ardent Catholics. They are, in very plain terms, very bad Catholics."

But the reason I say all this is not because I want to embarrass them or even correct them — they’re not even here. It’s because of you. Because back in the 1850’s when Catholic bishops, priests, and politicians were either silent or on the wrong side of the slavery debate, they risked not only their souls, but the souls of every other Catholic they influenced. I cannot do that, and I won’t do that.

Some would say, well Father, what about those people who support the war in Iraq, or the death penalty, or oppose undocumented aliens? Aren’t those just as important, and aren’t Catholic politicians who support those “bad Catholics” too?

Simple answer: no. Not one of those issues, or any other similar issues, except for the attack on traditional marriage is a matter of absolute intrinsic evil in itself. Not all wars are unjust — and good Catholics can disagree on facts and judgments. Same thing with the other issues: facts are debatable, as are solutions to problems."

"What Ardent Practicing Catholics Do: Correcting Pelosi", National Review Online, 9/1/2008 6:00AM
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NTY1MzAwOTc5MmViMzUyYzM5YmY3OWFkYzdkMzY0YzM=

Posted by: Dudley Sharp | April 11, 2009 6:43 PM

Again, the "right", just doesn't get it. There is a difference between "allowing" and "condoning". Being pro-choice is NOT being pro-abortion.

Why is it the rabid right doesn't care about the other "PRO-LIFE" issues the Catholic church supports? Universal health care, poverty, education, abolishment of the death penalty (Also an intrinsic evil, because once you've captured someone, they are helpless and death is not necessary for justice regardless of the crime. The death penalty only satisfys the evil rights appetite for revenge and death.)

And, let's say a Roman Catholic is against abortion, even to the point of overturning Roe vs. Wade. But in this past election, they felt other issues such as the war, economy, jobs, health care, etc. outweighed their personal view on the ONE issue. Voting for a "pro-choice" candidate does not make one NOT Ctaholic. Even in the weekly bulletins, the arch-diocese wrote letters (carefully worded to not seem as if it was preaching politics) that Catholics do have a right to weigh all the issues.

You could vote for a pro-choice candidate based on the other issues, but still be actively involved in trying to overturn Roe/Wade and reduce abortions by other means. That would still be very much in conjuntion with Church teaching.

But either way, the rabid rights slef-rigteousness in their anti-choice diatribes is so un-Christian it is laughable. Wouldn't it be better to work for solutions to help a woman "choose" to keep the baby? Instead the "stones you throw" as if you have no sins of your own. Think about that Gospel we heard this week in church. If Christ were here today and saw a group of protesters yelling at a lady who just came out of a clinic, He would do the same thing He did with the adulteress in the Gospel story.

He would ask the crowd "who here is without sin....." (you know the rest). And then He would bless the woman, and ask her to "go and sin no more". And that would be the end of it.

You would create a much greater "culture of life" if you followed Christ's example of love and compassion, than your screams and condemnation. The wanting to overturn Roe/Wade is just to satisfy the "rights" own selfishness, beacuse they feel like they are so above everybody and have no sins themselves. Read about "judging others" and the "false prophets" Matthew 7: 1-5, 15-20. You might learn something.

The term intrinsic evil is not something exclusive to Pat Buchanan's comments about abortion. The term is an integral part of Catholic philosophy based on reason and flows from the natural law. It describes a circumstance that is not dependent on any other external. It is evil within itself.Proverbial wisdom teaches us God always forgives, man sometime forgives, but nature never forgives. There is an order of things the operates in our universe based on God's Perfect Love and the Natural Law. It keep churning and abstracting evil. It is not something that evolves since truth can not evole and is static factor for all times.Abortion is intrinsic evil on its own outside the judgement call by anyone. It is the taking of innocent life. Pat Buchanan made that distinction in comparison to Capital punishment that may prompt a judgement call. President Obama used that option in allowing deadly force in the rescue operation in the recent piracy incident. A society has the right to defend itself just as a private person does.
Lawrence O'Donnell misses the essence of truth and makes provides just subjective conclusions.
Catholics and others in the Christian world understand that much more happens in the conception of a human being. It is not something just related to matter. It is also involved with form - or the soul. At the time of conception a eternal soul is created that will dwell in the heart of God forever. Perhaps even judged those who stole their human existence away from them through abortion or stem cell research. President Obama not only allows the killing of human embryos that are currently in storage but also allows the production of new human embryos for stem cell research. In essence, he is for creating eternal souls who will never fill their destinies on earth.
Abortion and this kind of stem cell production is totally opposite of the natural law and the natural law will convict all who partake in this mass termination of live no matter what. See also http://www.therationale.com/quest
President Obama should make a reasonable judgement call and cancel his trip to Notre Dame U.

All Pat had to say is I'm glad you agree with me that it is immoral to kill the unborn and ND should not invite Obama to speak. Trying to argue that they invited Bush so its OK to also invite Obama is a bad argument.

President Obama is NOT pro-abortion.

I am saddened by so much misunderstanding and judgment as illustrated in the controversy regarding President Obama’s speaking at Notre Dame. (Just google Notre Dame Obama to see how much there is.) The Master said, “Judge not according to appearance but judge righteous judgment.” John 7:24 Two kinds of judgment—what is righteous judgment? The discernment God gives as apposed to jumping to judgment by what appears –“the seeing of the eye and the hearing of the ear”. “Judge not, lest ye be judged.” It is a serious matter to rush to judgment, as much of our media (and population) does. How many go into their prayer closet and meditate to get the true answer before speaking or writing?
President Obama is NOT pro-abortion. He just believes that the reversal of Roe vs. Wade is not the way to solve the problem but will actually multiply it. If we would be followers of Jesus, then we must certainly realize that the laws that will change the world are not those written on paper, but those written on the heart. “A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh and I will give you a heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statues, and ye shall keep My judgments and do them.” Ezekiel 36:26. “Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshly tables of the heart.” II Corinthians 3:3
It has been said “The greatest progress needs to be made in the human heart.” How can we help the world? How can we help the problem of abortion? One heart at a time—your heart and my heart. And that is where our work must begin. History shows this. There were those against drinking—they worked very hard to change a law. However, Prohibition did not stop the drinking of alcohol. We have laws against drugs, but drugs continue to flourish because the emptiness in hearts remains.
Now, much energy is being consumed on whether or not President Obama should speak at Notre Dame, because of the unsolved abortion issue, He is wrongly judged to be pro-abortion. I have been listening to this problem and writing about it for decades. The plight of the world’s children is sad—many have a choice of drugs, prostitution or war. Many don’t even have clean water to drink. I care about the children of the world and want the world to be safe for them, and my own three children and seven grandchildren. If all the energy to reverse Roe vs. Wade had been directed to root causes—as Jesus taught—what would our world be today?
I have written further in my blog:
Wisdom for the Abortion War: A Peaceable Solution for Everyone Without Compromise.
http://www.shiningriver-sheilah.blogspot.com

The catholic church(holy roman empire) throughout history has either murdered or sponsored the murders of more innocent people than hitler and stalin combined . Have you ever studied true history about the horrors done to the indegenous people of central and south america and the caribbean after the murderer columbus stumbled upon them. Organized religion keeps the ignorant masses ignorant and malleable for the corrupt new world order. This is all more smoke and propoganda to obfiscate the truth and confuse the masses. It is the dying gasps of the old power structure fighting the wave of ethics and evolution of consciousness that is sweeping through the Cosmos.

I am of the Catholic faith with a family history of almost 200 years. I am totally surprised at the response of President Obama being invited to speak at the graduation for Notre Dame.
President Obama doesn't have to agree with stem cells or abotions and Ifeel he will no be encouraging such ar the graduation. No one knows what his personal feelings are so all need to take a sit and allow the President to do what he has been asked to do for the graduates. Please put those hate feelings on hold and not ruin what may be the best speech ever
given.This President is a very honorable gentleman

Amen Mr. Buchanan. O'Donnell is a Moron. The guy wont even let Buchanan talk. This guy calls himself a Catholic, a Christian? This guy tries to put convicted murderers into the same category with unborn children. This guy is an Idiot,

Amidst the controversy of abortion issues President Obama spoke at the Notre Dame graduation. Here is a copy of his speach. http://pfx.me/BU