Obama: CIA protected, Justice maybe not

One very simple question for you to ask and compare.

How many captured terrorists have died under US investigation?

Lets do a comparison, how many captured prisoners died during the Baton death march?

The Bush apologists cannot defend the indefensible. Bybee hid the truth during his confirmation hearings and should be compelled to answer for his role in perpetrating war crimes.

When President Barack Obama released the contents of President Bush's torture memos, America learned the full extent of the horror that was unleashed at Guanatanamo Bay on detainees. One of the memos was written by Jay Bybee in August 2002. It authorized the use of waterboarding, "cramped confinement", "walling" -- where a detainee's head is repeatedly pushed against a wall -- and even putting insects into a confined space with a detainee.

Jay Bybee is now a federal judge here in California, serving on the important Ninth Circuit Federal Court of Appeals, based in San Francisco. He has not been held accountable for the lawbreaking he committed and enabled.

The California grassroots are determined to change that. Los Angeles Democratic activists John Heaner, Agi Kessler and Richard Mathews have sponsored a resolution calling on the House of Representatives to begin impeachment proceedings against Jay Bybee.

Please join the L.A. County Democratic Party, Wellstone Democratic Renewal Club, Progressive Democrats of Los Angeles, and the Crooks and Liars blog by signing your name in support of this resolution. DEADLINE: Friday 9 AM.
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http://www.couragecampaign.org/page/s/ImpeachBybee

Bybee is a criminal and should be impeached and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. He's too much of a coward to do the right thing and resign.

Forest Gump: "Obama is, as Obama does." No wait, that's not right.

Forest Gump: "Obama is, as stupid does." No, that's not it either.

Forest Gump: "Stupid is, as Obama does." Hmm, it's something else.

Forest Gump: "Obama is stupid." Whoa, way off.

Forest Gump: "Stupid is, as stupid does." That's it.

Lets punish our heroes.

This Obama experiment has gone horribly wrong, and we are only in the first 100 days.

Obama has truly caved to liberal pressure. He initially wanted nothing to do with prosecutions, and made that perfectly clear in his first statements on the matter.

http://www.political-buzz.com/

How come Obama is only going after Americans?

Maybe he could release the Somali pirate without charges as a sign of "compassion"?

Thank God for the return of truth, justice, and the American way!!!

Its showing how Obama is going to run the country. Its all a political motion to show they are investigating those who authorized past authorizations (sounds sneaky). So are they going to investigate past Presidents for authorizing illegal entry into countries for the safety and wellfare of our country? I think not. Just wait and see everyone. If Obama is allowed to head in the direction with terrorists, assosicating USA with terrorists, we will once again be targets! I for one dont want to see that again!

What is wrong with Dean Victorino? Where do you see the "extent of the horror" at Gitmo?

What is your justification for what terrorists in the Middle East brought down on people's heads?

Or Mr Dean Victorino is this story just method to puss your politicial agenda in LA?

"The White House has sought to show that it is leaving the past behind by announcing that no CIA agents will be prosecuted. White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel also has suggested that the highest-level officials who authorized the practices will be immune.
But the White House has faced pressure to leave open the possibility of prosecutions."

A major fact is overlooked here: IT IS NOT OBAMA'S DECISION whether or not to prosecute CIA agents, Bush-era Justice lawyers, or anyone else. This is a decision (actually, an obligation) for Attorney General Holder, or the special prosecutor he would appoint. In failing to mention this, you and other media elites are implicitly endorsing the notion that the Justice Department should abide by the political agenda of the President. (Remember the Bush/Gonzales attorney general firing scandal? Guess not.)

He was against it before he was for it.

What an (insert alternative word for small beast of burden).

What is wrong with Dean Victorino? Where do you see the "extent of the horror" at Gitmo?

What is your justification for what terrorists in the Middle East brought down on people's heads?

Or Mr Dean Victorino is this story just method to puss your politicial agenda in LA?

PG,

What does the Batan death march have to do with torturing of people in Gitmo and other places? Why not ask how many people died in the Spanish Inquisition. Number of people who died or nearly died isn't the question. The LEGALITY of the act is what is being investigated.

bill. Punish our "heros". John Yoo, who essentially said that anything short of death was acceptable. Perhaps when John Yoo is sitting in a prison for the rest of his life, you might get it. On the other hand, probably not.

Good for you, Obama.

Keep up the momentum and we will finally make some true progress while reaffirming our core American values.

Now, about those illegal wiretaps...

Let the courts decide the CiA Issues, Unless Obama is the All Mighty now.

Obama had better watch out how far he goes in going after people who might have pushed the rules on the military and CIA trying to get info on terrorists. He should realize that a lot of people are involved and no matter how hard he tries, all of them won't get prosecuted and he will have to deal with the rest of them later. These people have long memories and I am sure they can huirt him politically later. Sounds like what he is trying to do is catch the cow after it is out of the barn. People were working under a different set of rules then and what was okay then just can't be changed after the fact and then they be punished for doing their job. Walk softly and smartly Mr. Messiah, would be my advice.

I agree, let's look backwards....I'd like for Pres. Obama to display the actual file copy of his birth report and submit to questioning on this matter.

CIA Director Panetta frames the issue succinctly and correctly as a matter of protecting both our nation and its values. If, indeed, we cannot protect both, then something is wrong with either the nation or its values.

What is not at issue, contrary to the barking of countless comment board pundits, is "sympathizing" with terrorists. Justice is justice. It's not a luxury, it's the whole point. We don't suspend it when we're dealing with the "worst of the worst." That's when we need a solid, dispassionate system the most---to keep us from letting rage rule.
I don't sympathize with any terrorists. I have enough confidence in the system to believe that it can do the job of rooting out and punishing bad guys as long as we don't abandon it. And I do sympathize with people randomly swept up in chaotic "fog of war" operations, and non-terrorists sold-out for cash by personal enemies, and people with the same last name as someone mentioned by someone who knew someone on a list and has now been imprisoned without charge for 5 years.
We have to be accountable for how we defend ourselves. We should not prosecute those who executed orders authorized from above, but we must hold those above to the very highest standards. How they arrived at their decisions dserves to be fully scrutinized and, if warranted, fully prosecuted.

Let's go back and see who JFK and LBJ tortured. How about under FDR (seeing barry likes to try to portray himself that way).
These people were cutting off the heads of their captors and we're supposed to worry about them getting water poured on them. Barry the incompetent will leave this country broke and weak, but then, who thought any different?
oh yeah, drug addicts, racists and college students.

CIA Director Panetta frames the issue succinctly and correctly as a matter of protecting both our nation and its values. If, indeed, we cannot protect both, then something is wrong with either the nation or its values.

What is not at issue, contrary to the barking of countless comment board pundits, is "sympathizing" with terrorists. Justice is justice. It's not a luxury, it's the whole point. We don't suspend it when we're dealing with the "worst of the worst." That's when we need a solid, dispassionate system the most---to keep us from letting rage rule.
I don't sympathize with any terrorists. I have enough confidence in the system to believe that it can do the job of rooting out and punishing bad guys as long as we don't abandon it. And I do sympathize with people randomly swept up in chaotic "fog of war" operations, and non-terrorists sold-out for cash by personal enemies, and people with the same last name as someone mentioned by someone who knew someone on a list and has now been imprisoned without charge for 5 years.
We have to be accountable for how we defend ourselves. We should not prosecute those who executed orders authorized from above, but we must hold those above to the very highest standards. How they arrived at their decisions dserves to be fully scrutinized and, if warranted, fully prosecuted.

How sad we have a president more focused on prosecuting those who protect us rather than those wanting to actually kill us.

This will never happen. They would have to detail every incident. and it would end up showing more positive information and that it does work. and is not torture but an effective form of interrogation. It would be a big mistake in the democratic party to allow this. Since for now they have you all brainwashed into thinking it is torture. god bless this country. and yes you liberal crack heads I said GOD,

With a political party (Republican) that is designed around hate, and secession and violence, and divisiveness, and one that is all but acting in an all out effort of hoping President Obama fails - unless we want to see a major outbreak in violence by some nutty right-wing militia movement or right-wing white supremist group - this must be a post partisan investigative effort. Holder should hire an independent investigator.

See 'Taxi to the Dark Side' and see what the true cost of the Bush- Cheney torture policy was to our country's moral footings.

This will never happen. They would have to detail every incident. and it would end up showing more positive information and that it does work. and is not torture but an effective form of interrogation. It would be a big mistake in the democratic party to allow this. Since for now they have you all brainwashed into thinking it is torture. god bless this country. and yes you liberal crack heads I said GOD,

Posted by: John | April 21, 2009 3:37 PM

Sounds like you're off your meds again, Slick

You need to step away from your keyboard, take a deep breath and turn on some Druggy Rush and get your days worth of AM hate radio.

How sad we have a president more focused on prosecuting those who protect us rather than those wanting to actually kill us.

Posted by: Todd | April 21, 2009 3:35 PM
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Toddler,
"Protecting us", is that what the Bush crime family was doing when they ignored the pre-9/11 warnings they were given? Were the BushCo Republicans "protecting us" when they trumped up intelligence in order to start a phony war in Iraq, thus getting thousands of innocent people killed?

The reaction to the torture memos being made public has yet to fully sink in. Remember, Republicans are doing their damndest not to read or hear anything about the torture, it is our job to make sure every detail of everything they did that we now have knowledge of, stays in the headlines until everyone who is responsible gets prosecuted, and the long horrible Bush legacy is exposed in surgical detail. Then the GOP will know what it is like to lose their chance of governing for a generation.

ALL those who committed torture should be prosecuted for war crimes. Even the ones "taking orders." It's not as if they haven't learned civics and the geneva conventions. They're not drones.

Posted by: W OBrien | April 21, 2009 3:07 PM
What surprises me is when ALL these articles are written and the many posts, like in this thread, 9/11 and other attacks aren't mentioned. Thats dead people folks.

And yes if you want to go back to when man was created, that's fine with me.

Baton was a comparison of how many people DIED under that march, compared to how many have DIED under US interrogation. I thought that would have been very obvious.

And this is how it all works. I don't believe waterboarding is torture, you do.

This guy is an absolute disaster for this country, look at the harm he's done in such a short time. Wake up America, is he one of us?? Think you can answer that question by now. Sad.

PS: we all have different views on how things works. I don't like the stimulus bill, and how the Democrat controlled Branches voted away the taxpayer money. Should they be investigated. I don't like all the bull that continues to popup with Politicians making deals that seem to benefit them or someone they know. Shouldn't they be investigated. Oh, and isn't it wonderful how Congress can investigate Congress. Man, that's a deal I'd like to get in on. Awarded contracts, payoffs, tax cheats......

Every time this liar changes his tune I get hungry for my favorite breakfast food.

He just leans with prevailing winds and leans whatever way they blow.

You gotta feel foolish if you voted for this guy.

If you do, or have done, anything against the grain of the Fourth Reich, they will come after you.

Todd,

Obama is worried more about prosecuting those who "protect" us.

I guess that type of logic would apply to folks such as John Yoo if they had said, heck capture these folks and just take them out back and shoot them. If some innocent people (just as is now being alleged) get murdered that's the cost of "protecting" Americans.

Cold blooded murder isn't acceptable to we folks known as civilized human beings. Torture is one fine line away.

PG-Hundreds of detainees have died in US control; do you have the number or are you playing some sort of game here. Your point?

President Hussein who befriends terrorists now stating that he has values? Right! The man has never had any values and especially no Christian values! The bottom line is the Bush Administration has kept us safe and now Obama has declared war on the very people who have kept us safe. His pathetic incompetent leadership makes me sick!

He will loose his dragon slayer title when he runs out of dragons to slay!

He can't promise to fix what's not broken but he can certainly go back on his word. This is not the first time folks and I'm pretty sure it won't be his last flip - flop and broken promise!

We will not proceed with an assault weapons ban just because Mexico needs a crutch in the blame game.

I mean, OK, we will.

We will not go after CIA agents who were following orders and had a green light from the DOJ.

I mean, OK, we will.

That's just this week.

I just finished listening to a audio address given by the President honoring one of the military acadamies football teams. It seams that the unofficial team motto is "No excuses, No one cares".

He laughed it off implying it applies to his wife, not him.

At some point, you lefties will come to understand what you have done to this country.

I feel no hate. It is the left that is so intolerant that they become vile when disagreed with. I feel a sadness that my grand kids may never come to know the American dream.

Reverend Wright is so proud of his little protege.

BREAKING: CIA Denies Cheney Requested Release of Torture Memos!

Both MSNBC and Politico.com have just reported this story.

"A senior U.S. intelligence offical e-mailed: "The Agency has received no such request from the former Vice President.” A source familiar with the request said the former vice president (Cheney) made the request to the National Archives, and said that is the appropriate process for requesting declassification. On Monday, after Cheney made the statement to Fox News, the CIA declined to comment.When reporters at Tuesday's White House briefing asked press secretary Robert Gibbs about the existence of such memos, he referred the question to the CIA."
Politico has asked the National Archives for comment and will post it when it arrives.
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http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0409/21513.html

“Did Dick Cheney really ‘formally’ ask the CIA to release reams of intelligence allegedly showing that the torture program worked?” Sargent asks. “An intelligence source familiar with the situation says the answer is No.” Sargent claims his source told him, “The agency has received no request from the former Vice President to release this information.”
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http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/torture/source-despite-claim-cheney-didnt-really-ask-cia-to-release-torture-intelligence/?ref=fp3

What Dick Cheney said on FOX:
"There are reports that show specifically what we gained as a result of this activity. They have not been declassified. And I’ve now formally asked the CIA to take steps to declassify those memos so we can lay them out there and the American people have a chance to see what we obtained and what we learned and how good the intelligence was, as well as to see this debate over the legal opinions."
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http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/04/20/cheney_memos_cia/

Whether or not we were attacked on 9/11 or thereafter, both Cheney and Bush took oaths to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. Machiavelli was not one of our nation's founders, nor did he have input to the drafting of our Constitution. The ends do not justify the means. What Bush and Cheney did was not only unconstitutional, it was, in fact, criminal.

Every day that George W. Bush and Dick Cheney walk around this country free is an insult to every man and woman who took an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. Arrest them both now. Let them be the only two people that President Obama declares to be "enemy combatants".

If torture had actually stopped further attacks, Cheney would have already broadcasted the incident....on the FOX Nutwork, no less.

I agree, let's look backwards....I'd like for Pres. Obama to display the actual file copy of his birth report and submit to questioning on this matter.
Posted by: Otis | April 21, 2009 3:22 PM
America is beginning to wonder more what he is hiding,

Every time this fraud changes his tune I get hungry for my favorite breakfast food.

He just leans with prevailing winds and follows whatever way they blow.

Do you realize that the entire 911 attack on Los Angeles was stopped directly because we waterboarded a terrorist and he gave up the information? Maybe they should scale it back but that would have crippled our economy even further and killed thousands of people. Why do people have soft spots for terrorsists? why? Why? Why? Is it ... Read Morejust in case we accidentaly do it to an innocent one? That's better than thousands of people dying and our whole country in fear. We are sperated because we only torture terrorists, not innocent people who happen to be in the wrong country at the wrong time like journalists.

WATERBOARDING WORKS! Just announced today that (KSM) Kahlil Shaeik Mohammad was waterboarded and he provided actionable intelligence that prevented another attack. (see link below) The waterboarding will go on no matter what Obambi says. It will NOT be reported while this pacifist squats in our White House.

http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=46949

Obama is playing Chicago politics at its best on the torture issues.If he was a real president- he would say Bush did what he had to, and now we will move on. This is the "Chicago Way".

.....................
I agree, let's look backwards....I'd like for Pres. Obama to display the actual file copy of his birth report and submit to questioning on this matter.
Posted by: Otis | April 21, 2009 3:22 PM
America is beginning to wonder more what he is hiding,
Posted by: Inky | April 21, 2009 5:26 PM
.....................
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It's hard to believe that just eight short years ago the Republican party controlled the White House and both branchs of Congress and now they're just a bunch of lunatic fringers (see above) waving their tea bags in the air, bleating about a birth certificate and screaming that the sky is going to fall if we don't listen to their already debunked Republican ideology.
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http://media.photobucket.com/image/tea%20parties/wteach/typepadback/2009-03-18-tea_bag_dems.jpg

I for one do not feel sorry for those thugs in Gitmo. Just like they had no pity for the victims of 911 and their families. I feel that they lost all respect and equality when they decided to murder innocent Americans.

Another Traitor in the White House. Enough is Enough. Obama should be impeached for Treason!

OK, Guantanamo: People who have been captured for terrorist attacks against America are being held in oneof the spots Guantanamo Bay. These radicals are killers who have killed or help setup the killings of innocent people in America, and are being treated as if they were freakin Kings, compared to the way the Japanese treated prisoners. That's my point. There are so many people wanting to help the terrorists, and get Bush & Cheney, I honestly don't understand their logic. Alright, "well waterboardings torture". Tell that to say D. Pearl when he was having his throat cut as the terrorist is demanding his prayer mat/rug, koran etc....

I don't sympathize with these killers. Give them a gun, drop them in an active combat zone, maybe even give them a bullet.

Henry,

CNS News?

No sources whatsoever for the outrageous accusations. They only come up with the CIA confirmed . . .

Gee since the CIA confirmed . . . why hasn't every other newspaper in the country come out with the story.

PG.

Batan death march has absolutely NOTHING to do with the US holding people in various locations and torturing them.

BTW, you might want to check into what the US did to various Japanese soldiers who tortured Americans. The tried them and took action from there.

When the US soldier tortured Vietnamese during the Vietnam War the US did the same to him.

When a sheriff and his deputies waterboarded a prisoner, the US government did the same to them.

This country has a RECORDED history of prosecuting others and our own for torturing people.

NOW, would you like to tell me why Yoo, etc. shouldn't be put on trial?

People always joke about the Republican party being filled with a bunch of dittoheads and after reading some of the comments on this thread, I have to agree.

The Republican party in 2009 is made up of about 20% of the population - a group of hardcore lemmings - who followed Bush and Cheney off the edge of the cliff on the illegal invasion of Iraq....and as if to prove how stupid they really are, now they're following Bush and Cheney off the edge of the cliff on war crimes and torture.

Its starts. Who's next?

All BO is going to do is send the terrorists (sorry, I mean misunderstood young male adults of the Islamic faith) to Bagram Air Force Base which is where all the dirty work will be done.

Let me ask you you a couple of questions. Are we investigating the Japanese now? Are Muslim terrorists responsible for the Bataan death march? Why are you even asking?

Who defines torture? Those who have a political agenda that they must pursue no matter what it does to the safety of our citizens? I don’t think so. I have my own definition of torture and my only agenda is the safety of my family as they walk down the street.

Real torture involves physical harm. Cut off a toe, a finger or a head. Attach an electrode and turn on the switch. That’s torture and none of this is beneath our enemies.

Making someone stand for a long period of time is not torture. Putting a bug in a box is not torture. Holding somebody under water for a short period of time is not torture.

I would suggest that the real reasons certain people want to release the details of what was APPROVED is because their hatred of the prior administration is so off the charts that they don’t care what will happen to the country. These are the same people who want power and control over the people.

How I wish the headline read "Obama to open probe. . ." instead of "Obama open to probe. . ."

Someone has to take the lead to establish a Truth Commission.
Any volunteers?

What about all those corpses at Abu Ghraib and other detention centers. Were they held under water too long, "slapped" a bit too vigorously?

Why were all the recording of the "interrogations" destroyed?

Can you believe anything CIA says once they destroy evidence in advance of any inquiry?

What "invaluable intelligence" did they get for the Gestapo tactics?

If a police captain in Chicago pushed prisoners against hot radiators and used electroshock on them for years, do you really think those doing W's "hero work" stopped with "simulated" drowning and tickling someone with a caterpillar?

O, and who's running the Justice Dept.? While Pres. is abroad, it is announced from WH there will be no prosecutions? That's just like Karl Rover telling Gonzales which US Attorneys to fire.

Hmmmm......how many more worms will crawl out of this can?

This "debate" gets to the core divide we have in this country, and it's quite sad.

Those on the right prefer to measure the morality of our actions against that of the worst people in history -- thugs, murderers, terrorists, etc.

Those on the left prefer to have the country meet a higher standard.

What a sad commentary that the right wing takes pride in pointing out that we're at least a smidge less awful than the 9/11 terrorists. With that kind of mindset, it's no surprise you supported Bush in droves, despite his predilection toward causing needless death. Nor is it surprising that that you throw him under the bus now that he's a political liability. This is perfectly acceptable conduct by your standards; you didn't even cut off his toe, let alone more critical appendages.

Shelby and Henry:

[quote]
In a White House press briefing, Bush's counterterrorism chief, Frances Fragos Townsend, told reporters that the cell leader was arrested in February 2002, and "at that point, the other members of the cell" (later arrested) "believed that the West Coast plot has been canceled, was not going forward" [italics mine]. A subsequent fact sheet released by the Bush White House states, "In 2002, we broke up [italics mine] a plot by KSM to hijack an airplane and fly it into the tallest building on the West Coast." These two statements make clear that however far the plot to attack the Library Tower ever got—an unnamed senior FBI official would later tell the Los Angeles Times that Bush's characterization of it as a "disrupted plot" was "ludicrous"—that plot was foiled in 2002. But Sheikh Mohammed wasn't captured until March 2003.

How could Sheikh Mohammed's water-boarded confession have prevented the Library Tower attack if the Bush administration "broke up" that attack during the previous year? It couldn't, of course. Conceivably the Bush administration, or at least parts of the Bush administration, didn't realize until Sheikh Mohammed confessed under torture that it had already broken up a plot to blow up the Library Tower about which it knew nothing. Stranger things have happened. But the plot was already a dead letter. If foiling the Library Tower plot was the reason to water-board Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, then that water-boarding was more than cruel and unjust. It was a waste of water.
[/quote]

http://www.slate.com/id/2216601/

Posted by: Disgusted | April 21, 2009 9:01 PM

OK, some don't seem to understand how the Gitmo killers are treated.
Answers (I have no problem doing). NO, NO, because the radical prisoners are being treated with Political Correct BS.
I would give them a few knifes and say, "here you go, the virgins are waiting", "Osama bin Laden said you should not leave Gitmo alive".
That's if you could get past the ACLU.
Anything wrong with that?

Listen, torture is torture, no matter how it is put. Just because our enamies use torture to gain information does not mean that we need to sink to their level. We are Americans and bad things have happend to us, but what we over look is that america has doen bad things to other countries too, like Viatnam- Did we really need to go there? Yes, they say it ws to stop Comunism but did we need to start war, especially after the world agreed to settle desputes without warfare. We're still human, we may look, and sound different but we all still have two eye, ears hands, feet. Ten fingers and toes. A head, noes, mouth, body. We are all the same. We all Have a BRAIN so why don't we actually use them. How would YOU like to be taken for a terrorist? Be separated from family and friends and then tortured? Physical and mental torture is horrible, yet we do it.

We don't need to become like our enamies to gain answers, we don't need to become barbariens in order to get what we want. We have BRAINS, we can RATIONALIZE the things we do, we can THINK, REASON and best of all we have the ability to have conversations without warfare.