Waterboarding: More often than known

This IS the legacy of George W. Bush and his administration. This CAN NOT be denied or spun into something else.

Waterboarding is a war crime, anyone authorizing it, doing it or refusing to prosecute those who do it, is a war criminal.

America will never know how many American Lives "waterboarding "
saved.

When they were done "waterboarding" - their heads were still attached to their bodies !

So, what! They should have lined them up and shot them when they were done with them!

I don't care if they did 3000 times. Did they get valuable information? If so, the waterboarding was justified. Keep in mind if this was Americans held by
Abu Zubaydah, they would have had their heads cut off, probably on video. We need to toughen up.

266 times and they're still around to talk about it.

Seems like it might be annoying but it doesn't seem like torture to me.

Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the self-described planner of the Sept. 11, 2001, was water boarded 183 times! This is an outrage! This is hardly sufficient retribution for a man who killed 3,000 innocent Americans. I'm angered that the CIA didn't water board this terrorist 183 times a week during his time in captivity. There really is no punishment undeserving for a man of such evil.

The should have water boarded them 600 times. If we are to have any chance of saving our country from radical Muslims, we are going to need to do stuff much more serious than water boarding.

If we don't, the United States of America will slowly but surely cease to exit and Radical Muslims will take over. They are already on their way in France, England and many other places. Time for America to WAKE UP!!

It has yet to be revealed what caused the deaths of those 60 - 80 corpses found in freezers in Abu G and other "detention centers".

Nor have they released what went on in the renditions.

We know Capt. Burge in Chicago felt free to chain people to radiators (hot radiators) and use electroshock on them.

Do Panetta and Hayden really think Americans are so naive as to believe "waterboarding" was the worst they did?

Anyway, looks like Judge Bybee out in California will be needing to pay Williams & Connolly a hefty retainer in the upcoming impeachment investigation of his "torture memos".

You people that are for this practice....you do realize that our torture practice, coupled with the death of hundreds of thousands of civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan were the biggest recruiting tools for these organizations during the Bush years. Every time we torture prisoners, or innocent civilians die, the number of people we are fighting against multiplies. It has been shown to be ineffective, and it has been shown that information derived from torture is almost always false. Think about it. Wouldn't you tell them whatever you think they wanted to hear, if it meant that you could then breath without fear of suffocating? We do not need to "kill everyone" that doesn't like us, we need to figure out why so many people don't like us. Because we're "free"? Come on... Do a little research on the Middle East and you will learn that this has been going on for centuries, that they will never stop fighting, and that the more we fight, the more of them there will be to fight. Fighting these people (when we were arming and funding them) bankrupted the Soviet Union, which is eerily similar to what is going on in this country right now. Open your eyes and learn your history.

How pathetic. Aren't we supposed to be the modern, technological, and civilized west? The ONLY suspect we had for 9/11 - we couldn't even get real evidence from him. If you read closely, he's the "self-professed" mastermind of 9/11. Ya think maybe the waterboarding had something to do with it? I'm sure you'd tell authorities whatever they wanted to hear after being waterboarded 183 times in a month. What an embarrassment. With all our might and intelligence, we can't even get a piece of substantial evidence for the ONLY 9/11 suspect.

To the fellow who boasted, that "This would be the Legacy of George Bush", I would respond by saying: SEVEN YEARS without another attack, will probably be the legacy. I don't think you people understand 'regular' people. I GUARANTEE you, that the folks drinking Coffee, and not LATTE, don't give a DAMN, about these SCUM. If it keeps my Family, and my Country SAFE, what do I care about a bunch of guys who throw ACID in the FACES of little girls, trying to go to school? Any time you need one of Allahs' boys 'questioned', you can call one of us. The regular Americans. Cause all of them put together, ain't worth ONE American Life. HAIL President Bush.

I would waterboard Khalid Sheik Muhammed, the mastermind of 9/11 and the murderer by heading of Danny Pearl, until that mother f'er grew gills!

Would they have preferred there heads slowly sliced off on video and the video sent to their families or a little waterboarding. I'm glad torture has created more Jihadists because that's just more that need to be killed. By the way, the innocence killed on 911 is much worse treatment than a little waterboarding, wah wah!

Still afraid to call it torture, huh?

The New York Times at least managed the euphemism "techniques the United States had historically called torture". As in, for our entire history until the Bush administration, we stood against this and called out the communists for doing it.

Way to go, Bush and Cheney, you cowardly anti-American shits. Scared to defend American values. "We have to be terrorists to defeat terrorists." What a load of cowardly bullshit!

Two thoughts:

This waterboarding (and interrogations in general) is performed to abtain intelligence - not for the goal of punishing. and certainly not for the sheer hell of it.

Secondly, why are we oh-so concerned about the comfort and well being of people who operate wholly outide the law and the Geneva convention, who would cheerfully murder us all in the most gruesome ways?

the ONLY reason to keel these people alive is to extract intelligence from them. Otherwise, they have no business breathing.

266 times in basically a month. That is INSANE. How effective is "waterboarding" when you're doing it to a guy up to SIX TIMES A DAY? I'm picturing Khalid Shaikh Mohammed standing in his cell waiting for his "noon waterboarding" so he can be back in time for lunch. I'm thinking after, say, the first 50 times in the first week, perhaps these suspects LEARN that waterboarding is a technique that is hardly fatal. What is the "motivation" to coming clean when the "terrorist" knows he'll be back in his cell in 20 minutes?!?!??!?!?

Ahhhh....poor little guys. That shouldn't happen anyone. Including those who MURDERED thousands of people. And I can't believe people think that something like this shouldn't be used if it could save thousands of lives. Since my husband and daughter's life are among those who could saved, I say go for it.

Man, why are so many Americans so dumb? This type of "interrogation" does not work. Waterboarding does not "keep America safe." You know what torture got us? Curveball. The guy who lied so that they would stop his treatment. You know what his "intelligence" gave us? The war in Iraq. How many American lives has it saved so far? -4,274 and counting.

Quit defending Bush and Cheney simply because you're republicans, people. If you believe so much in national security you should be outraged at our stupidity.

The fact is those on the left will continue so defend terrorists. These REAL terrorists (not us right wing "terrorists") will continue to hate the US and it doesnt matter whos president, liberal or conservative.

The real criminals are those who strap them selfs with bombs and walk into a cafe and pull the string.

For all the pro-torture folks.

Hasn't this country progressed beyond the Spanish Inquisition. I thought we consider ourselves "civilized people.

Try going to the head of ANY religion here in this country that you follow and ask THEM if torture is considered acceptable.

So how can you consider yourself a person of faith when you don't follow the guidelines of your religion?

And don't tell me about THEIR religion. THEIR religion doesn't control YOUR religious beliefs.

So what?

They got off light in my opinion.

I agree that he should've been waterboarded 100 x a day. Knowing it wouldn't get information doesn't change a thing. These people are willing to strap bombs to themselves for the chance to kill even one person that they believe doesn't agree with them. Keep up the good work CIA. Actually let us Americans do it, give us the satisfaction of torturing them the way they've tortured us... Not to mention their own. Psychos!!!!

Well, apparently John McCain, who knows more about torture than ANYONE here, is very upset about all of this.

This morning. "One is too much. Waterboarding is torture, period. I can ensure you that once enough physical pain is inflicted on someone, they will tell that interrogator whatever they think they want to hear. And most importantly, it serves as a great propaganda tool for those who recruit people to fight against us."

So please keep telling me about how torture is acceptable, except for those who've watched too many episodes of 24.

Comparing some water up a guys nose to the Spanish Inquisition? C'mon, get a life!

Actually let us Americans do it, give us the satisfaction of torturing them the way they've tortured us... Not to mention their own. Psychos!!!!

Posted by: GTOlover | April 20, 2009 12:15 PM

Actually, someone who thinks they'll get "satisfaction" out of torturing another living being perhaps, arguably -- out on a limb here -- is a "pyscho" his/herself. You need help, champ. Real help and real fast.

226 Times...

is that a record or something?

As long as they got crediable information, and most likely save innocent American lives, I'm all for any techniques used to obtain such info. Do you think the terrorist follow the "no torture" rules of engagement ? HECK NO THEY DON"T !!!! Our new President is to busy trying to apologize for everything America stands for in his 1st 100 days and making this country weeker with all his meeting with our enemies to understand this, his lack of experience is scary, the other world leaders are playing him for a fool.

I recall watching people jumping to their death rather than burn to death at WTC. That was torture. What these criminals went through was not on the same level, they lived to talk about it. We've turned into a nation of wimps, and our enemies know it. Think they'll play by our new rules? The NY Times would make the Nazi party proud as a propaganda outlet.

WATERBOARDING WORKS! It's good to hear it has been done. And to you America haters...HEAR THIS!

It will be done without supervisor knowledge going forward.

All you naive people that think this is a Bush tactic, you are blind and dumb. This is a tactic that has been used for decades. What kind of tactics do you think the enemy uses on our troops?
There some things that the general public should not know!

Jim,

John McCain has been tortured. He states, unequivocally, that waterboarding is torture. So please tell the rest of us what your experiences are with the technique that you can minimize it the way that you do?

From: http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2001/09/15/koran.htm

“The Koran says Muslims can retaliate if attacked, not launch unprovoked violence. That concept of a "just war" also is found in the Bible, which approves of the taking of "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth," part of what's written in Leviticus 24:17-21.

The Koran specifically warns against unleashing violence on innocent civilians.
"And fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits," reads Chapter 2 (The Cow), verse 193.”

From the Koran:
[5.45] And We prescribed to them in it that life is for life, and eye for eye, and nose for nose, and ear for ear, and tooth for tooth, and (that there is) reprisal in wounds; but he who foregoes it, it shall be an expiation for him; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unjust.”

...

So we lost how many people on 9/11? Does anyone here ever bother to remember how many died that day? And these moronic liberal whiners complain because we used a method of interrogation that SIMULATES the drowning process and one that results in no physical harm some 266 times. Sorry I have zero sympathy for these people and their so-called "religion of peace". It is this patriot's opinion that we have not pursued nor executed the global war on terror far enough or fast enough to neutralize the threat to our great country. We have hindered ourselves with rules of engagement that no other free country on the face of the earth would apply to its own troops? My site http://tinyurl.com/dku8hd

USMCVet seems to imply that the military routinely tortures people.

NOT the case whatsoever.

When the military finds out that soldiers torture anyone (innocents or not), we put those folks on trial and they get an appropriate sentence.

Think Abu Graib, My Lai, or the US solider who was tried for waterboarding prisoners.

So waterboarding is the evil "legacy" of the Bush presidency, huh?

By the same measure, nearly 3,000 innocents killed on Sept. 11, 2001 is the "legacy" of people like Abu Zubaydah and Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. Who did more "evil," practicioners of waterboarding or terrorists (and their apologists)? The people who underwent waterboarding, in fact, survived, unlike their victims.

When terrorism comes around to haunt the Obama adminstration, I want to see what actions his advisors choose to fight for the safety of the American public.

Those people who have a problem with using these means to get information out of terrorists need to wake up and realize we don't live in Wonderland where if we treat these animals nicely it will change how they view us. If waterboarding or other means of torture get us information that can be used to stop terrorists we have to do it. This is a no-brainer.

The source from the New York times is dubious.

How come if it is against conservatives views unsubstantiated sources may be used but in Liberal cases you need it sworn upon by all 9 Supreme Court Justices, the Pope and have 5,000 eye witnesses before it is published. Example John Edwards but Trig is Bristol Palin's baby

If this is something that Bush will be remembered for then it looks promising that he will go down in a more positive light than people currently think of him.

Much of what I'd like to say was "Posted by: Mike | April 20, 2009 10:26 AM."

I will add that this is about torturing/harshly interrogating people who haven't been convicted of anything. In other words, they are legally innocent.

Police could likely get a great number of confessions from people they arrest by waterboarding them. As I child, I remember someone twisting my arm behind my back, but promising they'd stop if I said "uncle." I resisted, but eventually said "uncle" just to get them to stop. I would have said, "I'm guilty" or "I'm a terrorist" just as quickly.

But do we want to give law enforcement/ investigators/ agencies the right to torture people just because they're suspects? Should we throw away our Constitutionally-guaranteed rights because they are sometimes inconvenient?

What about the right to remain silent, the right to freedom of speech and religion, the right to be free of cruel and unusual punishment?

I would ask those who support waterboarding to consider this: how would you feel if you or your husband, wife, parent or child was arrested as a suspected terrorist? Would you want torture to be applied, without access to an attorney, without being charged with anything, and to be held indefinitely with no recourse?

If you want that in America, write your representatives and try to get them to strip away your fundamental rights. If you don't want that, then please give this some more thought.

I asked this question on December 1, 2001 and I'm asking it again: How many fundamental American rights and values will we violate
in order to preserve fundamental American rights and values?

Just who are the "America haters"?

Why it is all of those who condone torture. Torture is illegal, both under U.S. law and international law. There is no justification for using torture under any circumstances.

To condone torture is to condone lawlessness and anarchy, which is a danger to Habeas Corpus. the Rule of Law, and the U.S. Constitution.

Plus, as long as the U.S. condones torture and does not prosecute those in the Dubya/dick misadministration for authorizing torture, we Americans, both in the military and civilian alike, face a greater danger of being tortured ourselves if detained in foreign countries.

So for those of you who condone torture under any circumstances, it is you who are the "America haters".

Greg,

That was beautiful.

Reed,

Was the Clinton administration waterboarding? They believed Saddam had WMDs.

Sept. 11 mastermind was waterboarded 183 times to remove head lice, say former Bush administration officials

http://wineandexcrement.com/sept-11-mastermind-was-waterboarded-183-times-in-delousing-effort-say-former-bush-administration-officials/1270/

WASHINGTON – Responding to Justice Department memos declassified by the Obama administration last week, former Bush administration officials claim that CIA agents who repeatedly waterboarded Sept. 11 planner Khalid Sheikh Mohammed were not bent on torture but simply treating a raging case of head lice and dandruff ...

So we are supposed to believe that CIA destroyed all those dvd's because they were boring and repetitive depictions of "waterboarding"?

Don't believe it for a moment.

They did far worse than that.

In their rendition sites.

Hoping the "exterritoriality" would save them.

Or the destruction of evidence would thwart justice. Like the Nazis destroying the files for Buchenwald and Auschwitz.

The "torture memos" that have been released by CIA are an exercise in magician's misdirection.

The real story is 10 times worse.

For those who feel that Waterboarding isn't torture , you should't be offended if you or any member of your family
are subjected to it . As time moves on, I think we will
find out more and more Satanic
deeds commited by the Bush
Regime which Obama is now sanctioning . Change ! Oh Please ! Just more of the same , but this time from a Black man .

Joel,

Since I have a family memeber that has undergone SERE (Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape) training as a Naval officer, I will tell you what he said.

Waterboarding will scare the hell out of you, but will cause no permament physical or mental damage.

Interesting read on torture... check out what Joe Navarro (FBI Master Interrogator) has to say about it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10175425/

On top of not being moral, it is outright impractical. You lose your ability to assess what's true because the "tells" become masked under physical durress. Read what the Israeli Masad does with it's terror suspects. I think many of you will be surprised.

We don't live in a perfect world. There would be no need to have any intelligence collecting techniques. The terrorists disregard any laws and human rights in their efforts to inflict their will on the rest of the world. Until there is something substantial in place to curtail such activities, I am for anything that keeps our country safe.