Health: 'Swiftboaters' vs. 'Obama's army'

I don't understand why providing healthcare for all is such an evil thing. Wouldn't it be better for businesses to have healthy workers, people who do not have to worry if they can get that help for their children, parents and themselves thus reducing stress and keeping those workers on the job? Were I so lucky to own my own business, I'd be happy to help and become a partner with government to figure out ways to help my employees live healthier and happier lives. Take the profits out of healthcare.

Here we go again....the democrats begin the labeling of those opposed to rationing healthcare.

If government can't manage social security and medicare how in the hell can they manage the entire nation's healthcare?

Social Security money was paid into the government. The government took the extra SS money and spent it on other things. They did not save it for the next generation.

The officials spent the money on their salaries, on their trips on their pensions.

And now Obama wants us to believe healthcare will be better.

Rather pick my own doctor. And that doctor and I will decide what course of action would be best for me.

Obama wants to tell doctors how to treat their patients, what tests and procedures to administer, when to administer, what drugs to prescribe.

Need a CAT scan? sorry your doctor won't be able to order one...it's not on Obama's protocol at this time in your treatment ....just wait one year. Then a CAT scan MAY be ordered. Then there will be a WAITING list for the CAT scan appointment.

The medical protocol or matrix is what the GOVERNMENT decides would be the best course of treatment for you INSTEAD of you and your personal physcian.

Look at the mess of filing income tax...just imagine wading thru Nobama's healthcare package.

And your medical records will be on file just like your tax records....government will be able to access.

NObama healthcare.

KEEP GOVERNMENT OUT OF YOUR MEDICAL DECISIONS!

I support the Obama initiative on health care. When I see the ad by opposition I have to say they got the slogan right just in the wrong position. I favor an open system in health care where everyone knows how much the healthcare costs be fore you buy it. I favor an open market price tag on every drug and non emergency medical procedure. i can get a quote to fix my car , and its complicated but i cant get a quote on how much a routine mammogram costs.
Healthcare insurance wants us all to be mushrooms,: well watered and keep em in the dark. I am amazed that all these smart Harvard Doctors cant come up with a dollar value on what they are selling to the healthcare consumer. Because Heath Insurers keep the doctors well watered and in the dark.

OMG, Barack Obama is so courageous to be standing above the partisan rhetoric that permeates politics!!!! he reminds me so much of me, i can totally relate to him. i wish i could vote for him again right now!!!!!

Rick Scott is a friend of Bush and drove a major health care company into bankruptcy. This is a right wing program. Never trust a republican- particulary a friend of GWB. Sending money to Obama today!

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Posted by: lochnessmonster | May 16, 2009 4:30 PM
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Most people don’t think health care for everyone is “evil.” The greatest objections to a national health care plan come from those who believe: (1) it’s dishonest for the federal government, as opposed to a state or local government or the private sector, to become involved in health care, because it’s not part of the feds’ job description; and/or (2) federal control over health care is the worst of all options because the federal government is wasteful and inefficient in the extreme; and/or (3) the federal government cannot be trusted to preserve your privacy, autonomy or health because it has to make the money decisions too.
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These are not insubstantial objections. Medicare and Social Security, as well intended as any federal program, will die in the near and foreseeable future because of the federal government’s lack of foresight and stewardship. After all this time, the federal government is still unable or unwilling to fix them. These are undeniable facts. Given the federal government’s track record, it will take a lot more than the faith that some have reposed in Obama and his administration to make me, and many others, believe the feds can make a go of a health care system in an efficient and responsible manner.

Obamabots unite! Obama needs to start his army to fight against the evil forces of anyone who goes against what the Emperor says. Forget the facts about government running programs into the ground. The One has spoken!
(High sarcasm)
These manipulative tactics are very concerning.
Dan, just move to Chicago and you'll
probably get to vote for a candidate as many times as you'd like.

The Purple Heart is for heroes.

John Kerry holds three Purple Hearts.

Not ONE of them required hospitalization.

Within days of receiving his 3rd Purple Heart Kerry petitioned to get out of Vietnam. It worked - 4 months in he was GONE.

The swifties were RIGHT.

John W:

Why can't health care reform be a collaborative proposition where everyone who is impacted can be involved in finding a solution. Do you think that for one instance that in private practice your privacy is respected? Things are certainly different than when the Constitution was written and I believe that there are more functions the government will have to take on in order to make things more available to all...

I agree that Medicare and Social Security as we and my in-laws know it probably will not be there in a few years when I need it or when my children need it. Social Security should have been put in a "Lock Box" and kept out of the hands of congress spending the money as they please. But I have faith in the American spirit and that everything eventually will work out...it always has. Right now though I am a frustrated American. It seems no one in DC is listening again.

The GOP is like a drunk driver who just killed a family of four patiently explaining to the tow truck driver how he's to blame.

The Purple Heart is for heroes.

John Kerry holds three Purple Hearts.

Not ONE of them required hospitalization.

Within days of receiving his 3rd Purple Heart Kerry petitioned to get out of Vietnam. It worked - 4 months in he was GONE.

The swifties were RIGHT.

Posted by: Terry | May 16, 2009 7:42 PM

There you go again Terry, Spewing and misleading lies and rhetoric.

First of all being wounded with a hot chunk of shrapnel in your arm qualifies Kerry for his first Purple Heart. Hospitalization or not.

Secondly hot shrapnel bored into your leg also qualifies Kerry for his second Purple Heart.

His last Purple Heart came from injuries when a mine exploded under hiss boat and wounded him in the arm. And despite his injuries he proceeded to rescue and assist in other damaged boats while under sniper fire from the riverbanks. This incident earned Kerry a Bronze Star with Combat V for "calmness, professionalism, and great personal courage under fire." Those are the FACTS on record and substantiated by grateful eyewitnesses not sour and bitter lying losers such as you and your Swift Boat loonies. You suggest that the Government gives these medals and Purple Hearts lightly and without true merit which in turn is a slap in the face of ALL men and woman who received these honors.
Tell me Terry, how many Purple Hearts or Bronze Stars are on your record??

Within days of receiving his 3rd Purple Heart Kerry petitioned to get out of Vietnam. It worked - 4 months in he was GONE.

The swifties were RIGHT.

Posted by: Terry | May 16, 2009 7:42 PM

You are such a misleading SOB!
Kerry served in the Navy from 1966 to 1970 and was in Vietnam from November 1968 to April 1969.
Last time I checked thats 4 years of service! How many years do you have again?

These are the same " swift-boaters " that were a party to this American disaster:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/17/opinion/17rich-5.html
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, BRING THEM HOME, ALIVE AND WHOLE. NOW.

Do YOU want to control your healthcare?

or

do you want GOVERNMENT to control your healthcare?

Stop acting like children and act like adults.

The government has FAILED on social security, medicare, medicaid, Fannie Mae is failed, as well as Freddie Mac!

Look at public schooling-failure!

Look at veteran care-Obama intends to END it.

Look at your IRS forms-outrageous!

The government is INEPT and now they and some want to get into healthcare! That is outrageous.

The government is TOO big to effectively manage anything. Too cumbersome, too limiting.

The government will RATION your healthcare.

Your doctor will not be able to order tests, because the GOVERNMENT says it's TOO soon....wait a year!

Cancer in the family...too bad...the GOVERNMENT says that medication is unavailable at this time.

Why put an entity BETWEEN you and your doctor?

It's RATIONING!

Those who forget the past-Social Security, Medicare-will repeat it.

Government interferring in your healthcare is going to be a disaster...just like SS and Medicare and Medicaid.

It will take away your FREEDOM to choose your doctors, the course of your healthcare (the government will decide that) what tests and procedures you can have and WHEN you can have them.

And in the mean time...those in governmental power will have EXCLUSIVE healthcare, while the masses get rationed care.

Big, big mistake. The nationalized healthcare in England is a disaster. In France 50% of salary goes to healthcare costs.

No to rationed Obamacare.
Vote out democrats and Obama in 2010 and 2012.

You are an adult, YOU make decisions about what care you and your children should have, not the government.

Just because there are people who can't take care of themselves in ANY manner the entire country has to have GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED HEALTHCARE!?!?

The government failed us with social security, medicare, medicaid and now the Obama administration and the democrats will fail the entire nation on healthcare.

Scottie,

For the record - different Terry. You s/b able to tell that since there were no spelling/typing errors.

lets put these false accusations to rest. President Obama is not proposing eliminating private medical care people!! He is offering a plan that allows US to chose between a government program OR private program. Your lies and deceptions are mind boggleing!

Rachel........Don't confuse the freedom of speech with the freedom to lie, distort, and mislead. Your ignorance on the health care issue is....to quote Scot S. Blakeley...is mind boggleing!

The Conservatives for Patient's Rights defines four 'pillars of patient's rights.' They are clever but not very smart. The distortion is in their definition of the 'rights.' ................

http://thefiresidepost.com/2009/05/17/health-care-distortions-by-conservatives/

Who ever thinks they control their healthcare, better wake up from their self-induced, " Republican " stupor !! The HMOs and PPOs, the Insurance Corps control healthcare, in America and take a good look at that disaster. People are being denied coverage because " Republicans " say, we can't afford it, but we can afford to kill thousands of our own members of our Armed Forces and hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis !! We can deny our Veterans, proper medical attention, even though they sacrificed their lives and health for this good nation !! Come on, America, let's get our priorities right, give our citizens the means to pursue happiness, in the form of dependable healthcare, for all citizens !!
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, BRING THEM HOME, ALIVE AND WHOLE. NOW.

I heard today that Obama and congress are still open to taxing workers current health insurance in order to pay for national health care. Teachers, police, firemen, local, state and federal gov't employees, and private workers with health care need to stand guard and beware of these potential new taxes from Obama. It appears that most of Obama's campaign promises--on all matters--have been flushed down his new White House toilet. He needs to bail out American human beings instead of bailing out banks and bankers and foreign nations. There are ways of getting health care to all American citizens with out raising taxes. A huge amount of much money is already being spent on health. Our Leader needs to have the guts and smarts to cut the lobby strings and make more efficient use of our current health funds. Think different, not more.

Scottie,

For the record - different Terry. You s/b able to tell that since there were no spelling/typing errors.

Posted by: Terry | May 17, 2009 8:28 AM

Um, Terry, first of all I dont believe you at all and secondly even if you are a different Terry, your points are lies and distortions just the same!

The thieves were even given a seat at the health care meetings, why? I hope no one really believes those thieves, as they try to con us into believing that they are going to reform their own business's. It is time to bull-doze the entire health care industry, including medicare and start over from square one! It is time for a new direction in health care for ALL, not only for the well off. It is time for the citizen's of this nation to say NO MORE!!! It is time we took away all PUBLIC PENSIONS AND HEALTH CARE. If you want a pension take it out of your own paycheck and create your own. If you, as a civil service worker want health care buy your own don't expect the taxpayer to buy it for you. The taxpayer already pays for national health care for police, firemen, teachers, armed forces, prisoner's in our jail system, postal workers, any government worker, including our elected officials. IT IS TIME TO SAY NO, TO PUBLIC PENSIONS, AND THE FREE NATIONAL HEALTH CARE THAT THE TAXPAYER PAYS FOR, WE D E M A N D HEALTH CARE FOR ALL, NOT JUST THE ONES THAT BELLY UP TO THE TROUGH. JOHN MCCAIN IS AN EXAMPLE, WHO HAS HAD NATIONAL HEALTH CARE ALL OF HIS LIFE!! HE AND HIS FAMILY HAVE BEEN ON THE DOLE ALL OF HIS LIFE!! whiteagle38

Thats right Vivien and I heard today that dinosaurs lived 4,000 years ago along with men and that abstinence programs really do work and that Global warming is just a myth and that Reagan was once a Democrat! LOL

Hey Terry, is my Purple Heart real, or one of those fakey ones like Kerry? Do you think I deserved mine?

How dare you assume any of us didn't earn these medals. How dare you minimize the sacrifice of ANY wounded serviceman for a petty political attack. I'm a Republican, and I find your attitude disgusting. I didn't agree with many of Kerry's positions, but I honor his service just as I honor every man and woman who served.

Scot--You need to call Obama, your rep and/or your senator on this. Given the strength of your comment, it sounds as if you'd like those with health insurance to be taxed more in order to help pay for national health insurance.

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Posted by: lochnessmonster | May 16, 2009 8:26 PM
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Why can’t health care reform be a collaborative effort? There really isn’t a reason, much less a good reason, why it can’t be. But that’s really the wrong question.
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The question is why it WON’T be a collaborative effort. The reason why it won’t be a collaborative effort is that the two major parties in our system suffer from “hard core perspectivism.” This is a phrase that doesn’t get enough use in political discourse, but ought to because of its ability to elucidate the difficulties we now have.
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“Perspectivism” is the view that all ideation or views of the “truth” come from within a particular perspective. The perspective may be a general human point of view, set by such things as the nature of our sensory apparatus, or it may be thought to be bound by culture, history, language, class, or gender. This is not an unreasonable view of the way people think and view the world, given that cosmopolitan rationality doesn’t appear to work well against a well developed perspective. The “hard core” part refers to the unwillingness of certain parties to deviate from their basic perspective to which they assign the value of undeniable and unalterable truth regardless of the merits of any argument that might rationally prevail to one with an open mind.
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Democrats and Republicans both suffer from “hard core perspectivism.” Republicans are supposed to believe, for instance, that small government and the least amount of intrusion into the market and society are the appropriate way to deal with social issues. Democrats and progressives, in particular, are hooked on the idea that rational government intervention is always a good and proper method for improving society. It is as if both sides exemplify the saying, “To a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail.” It is for this reason that you can expect little or no bio-partisan cooperation in addressing the issue.

Scotty,

Believe what you want, you haven't been right yet

Hey Terry, why didn't you respond to me? Isn't my Purple Heart good enough for you? Do I have one of the ones you deem unworthy, like John Kerry? If you are going to smear decorated vets, have the guts to talk to one directly. Don't run away coward. Tell me it's not enough. Tell me my Purple heart is meaningless.

Scot--You need to call Obama, your rep and/or your senator on this. Given the strength of your comment, it sounds as if you'd like those with health insurance to be taxed more in order to help pay for national health insurance.

Posted by: Vivian | May 18, 2009 4:32 PM

Hey Viv, um ya sure I do. I mean afterall, I do pay school taxes for you and your children and yet I dont have any children. I pay taxes to maintain childrens parks and yet, there are none in my neighborhood. I pay SS tax but most likely it will be gone before I can use it. I pay gasoline taxes and yet I dont drive. So tell me whats your point?? Shut that hole in your face lady because your foot just aint big enought to fit into it anymore!

And Terrie, prove me wrong on Kerrys armed forces service and also, you seem very quiet these days regarding your Purple Heart collection....

Only in the machiavellian world of leftist agitprop will Kerry's desertion of a combat assignment and post-Vietnam treason be treated as a virtue. Little wonder that they conjure up the Swiftvets "bogeyman" whenever the light of truth might impede yet another leftist assault on our liberties and way of life.

Isnt Bingo the name of a clown in a song? Thought so.. never mind.

Is there any core part of the Obrama Health Reform program that the adm. will not compromise on? Are we going to end up with a hodge-podge that pleases no one and accomplishes little? No legislation is going to please everyone. Diogenes would like to see some backbone for what is essential. If this is impossible then take James Carville’s advice and force the Republicans to filibuster and take the fallout I 2010. Hopefully this would result in a larger democratic majority in the senate. It appears from republican statements and meeting disruptions that the only compromise the republican will accept is democratic surrender leaving healthcare basically in its present form.

Desperate Republicans Fight Healthcare
with lies and meeting disruptions Part 1

Recently Republican House minority leader John Boehner said that Reform Healthcare plans recommended euthanasia. Republican VP Candidate Sarah Palin said that Reform Healthcare plans recommended euthanasia. Newt Gingrich republican leader said that Reform Healthcare plans recommended euthanasia. Newt also added, (clearly there are people in America who believe in establishing euthanasia). Unfortunately Newt did not name names or organizations. Also UNFORTUNATELY THIS APPEARS TO BE THE REPUBLICAN party line, Also UNFORTUNATELY IT IS COMPLETELY FALSE.

The reform healthcare plans provides a voluntary option to discuss end of life options, such as living wills. If a patient chooses to discuss this with a doctor the reform plan will pay for the doctor’s time. Many of these issues should be discussed before a person is seriously ill. But a large number of people for a variety of reasons do not. The number of people including well to do educated people who do not even have a will is surprising.

Other republican false claims are: Medicare payments will be cut ,less freedom to choose your own Dr., lose health coverage, ration healthcare, gov’t takeover, etc Part 2 Disruptions.