White House's standup press: Favorites?

Stand up? they stand up, hold lighters up, cry, stage dive and hope to catch the eye of the rock star in chief!

Stand up? they stand up, hold lighters up, cry, stage dive and hope to catch the eye of the rock star in chief!

Posted by: heartburn | May 4, 2009 5:42 PM
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Yeah, real democracy must be a shock to nutjobs like you who enabled Bush to run this country like he was a king for eight years.

Yeah, real democracy must be a shock to nutjobs like you who enabled Bush to run this country like he was a king for eight years.

Posted by: antacid | May 4, 2009 5:52 PM

Are you kidding?
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We have a press corp that has provided more analysis of the presidents choice of dog than his VP pick.
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In the meantime, the press has offered no critical analysis or reporting on Obama's facistic economic policies, his tripling of the Bush deficits to finance a liberal nanny state agenda, class warfare based income redistribution tax policy and budget, and vindictive threats to prosecute attorneys giving an opinion about interrogation policy....and all you can offer is your predictable "Bush (fill in the blank) " whine?
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Just a warning- marijuana is not legal yet- you might want to be careful..

In the meantime, the press has offered no critical analysis or reporting on Obama's facistic economic policies, his tripling of the Bush deficits to finance a liberal nanny state agenda, class warfare based income redistribution tax policy and budget, and
Posted by: heartburn | May 4, 2009 6:15 PM
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The corporate media helped you Repug nuts and your President (Cheney) sell a war based on lies, a war that is still costing us billions and a war that has gotten thousands of innocent Americans and Iraqi's killed.

That fact that you're crying about the corporate media now is laughable...

heartburn,
Hmmmm, let's see here: "facistic economic policies, liberal nanny state agenda, class warfare based income redistribution tax policy and budget, vindictive threats"....

CONGRATULATIONS! You hit on all of KKKarl Rove's - "talking points for wingnut dummies" - in one paragraph!

The only thing missing is your giant foam head like other mascots wear.

You are the walking talking embodiment of all the bigotry and ignorance that the Republican party uses to exploit working class chumps to get them to vote for tax cuts and special privileges for the rich.

heartburn is right. Obama is evil. He and the press are in a massibe worldwide conspiracry to bring on fascism, or maybe communism, I get confused, but any way, bring on something! I hate the Obama class warfare policies of income resdistribution.. We must maintain the Republican class warfare policies of income redistribution. More and more of the wealth of the nation MUST end up in the hands of fewer and fwere people, the lower and middle classes MUST see their real incomes continue to decrease year after year. That's the class warfare and income redistribution we need, and like heartburn, I'm all for seeing my real income decrease for the benefit of the ultra-wealthy. I'm also with heartburn in demanding that those who approved torture shouldn't be investiugated, they should be given medals! Yay for torture, it's the all American, non fascist way!

You are the walking talking embodiment of all the bigotry and ignorance that the Republican party uses to exploit working class chumps to get them to vote for tax cuts and special privileges for the rich.

Posted by: Jimi Jagger | May 5, 2009 1:22 AM

Jimi- just so I understand- is there any criticism of Obama that would not constitute bigotry?
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Do you realize that Obama has taken control of major corporations replaced CEOs, and is now telling private corporations how to run there business? Not only that, he has ILLEGALLY bypassed the contractual rights of people that have loaned Chrysler corp. money bypassing bankruptcy laws?
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If you don't see the similarities between Obama's economic policies and some of the early 20th century fascist governments ( including ours to a degree) you aren't paying attention- ... stop worrying about attacking me personally and defend your messiah based on his merits or his actions, not his skin color.

heartburn is right. Obama is evil. He and the press are in a massibe worldwide conspiracry to bring on fascism, or maybe communism, I get confused, but any way, bring on something! I hate the Obama class warfare policies of income resdistribution.. We must maintain the Republican class warfare policies of income redistribution. More and more of the wealth of the nation MUST end up in the hands of fewer and fwere people, the lower and middle classes MUST see their real incomes continue to decrease year after year. That's the class warfare and income redistribution we need, and like heartburn, I'm all for seeing my real income decrease for the benefit of the ultra-wealthy. I'm also with heartburn in demanding that those who approved torture shouldn't be investiugated, they should be given medals! Yay for torture, it's the all American, non fascist way!

Posted by: Rushpublican | May 5, 2009 9:30 AM
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Rush-

Your wrong about my views of tax policy- my views of taxes are that they are a means for collecting revenue to sustain government - if a tax policy is initiated as a means of stimulating growth you have to provide tax relief to the producers of jobs and wealth-low tax rates COMBINED with limited government spending cause massive economic stimulus. Providing a tax credit to someone that pays no taxes is nothing more than buying a vote and creating a new government dependent citizen.

AS to your comments about "torture"

Approved? The attorneys that are being targeted only provided opinions to the people who then approved - ( Bush and the Justice Dept.)
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You'll notice that Obama will not go after the real decision makers- that would expose how many people knew of and approved of (or did nothing to stop) the techniques...
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Obama knows that Congressional leaders of both parties ( especially Pelosi) had full knowledge of the use of the techniques and did nothing- the fact that the techniques actually worked as expected are ignored.
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BTW- Khalid Sheik Mohammed severed an innocent person head, ( targeting him because he was Jewish) with his bare hands for an internet PR /photo op- I am not worried about him getting a little water up his nose or anyone scaring him into thinking he might drown...
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the left- including yourself- have watered down ( pun intended) the use of the word torture for purely political reasons...
"waterboarding = torture" is an article of faith for the left.

"Do you realize that Obama has taken control of major corporations "

Actually, no he hasn't. To the extent that major corporation were "taken over" that was done by the Bush Administration. It was Bush who came to the agreement with GM and Chrysler to provide them loans, with the requirement that they provide restructuring plans showing long term viability. If they could not prove long term viability, as judged by the federal government, not only would no further loans be forthcoming, but the existing loans could be called in early, either of which would force bankruptcy. Obama was left to administer that progam. He did not design it. This situation was wholly a creation of the Bush Adminstration after support for Congressional approval could not be found for an auto bailout program. In addition, in case you haven't noticed, Chrysler is now in legal bankruptcy. The bankruptcy laws in no way have been subverted. A minority of lenders refused the negotiated settlement so, as per the bankruptcy laws, Chrysler was forced to seek chapter 11 protections. The rights of the lenders are fully intact. It is possible that the Bankruptcy judge will determine that the terms that the majority of lenders (Including the Treasury Department, as lender, as a result of the Bush loans)agreed to will be enforced. It is possible that those terms will be modified. That's how bankruptcies work.

Try to learn the facts before you rant.

Posted by: Mel | May 5, 2009 10:17 AM

Mel-I agree to a point- the Bush admin should not have loaned money to any of the auto corps... everyone knew bankruptcy was where Chrysler and GM were/are heading - they should never have been loaned OUR ,money. Having said that, laying out the conditions of the loan and acknowledging that bankruptcy would be the path for the corp. if they could not become viable is one thing-firing CEO's, determining what type of car the company should make and how the company is run is another
Onbams admon has allowed for unions to gain a stake in the company with no concessions, placing bond holders with secured loans other than first in line is wrong this is different than in your words " A minority of lenders refusi[ing] the negotiated settlement", --they weren't refusing to negotiate, they were refusing to back down from Obama's intimidating them into foregoing the agreement they had already made.
Secured loan holders have first rights to repayment- they were publicly slandered by Obama for expecting their rights to be protected...if you think credit markets have been frozen before think of how much lending will NOT happen if lenders do not know what the rules are for payback…? If I have a bag of money and I want to invest in a company – and in return I want the company to SECURE the debt with hard assets ( collateral) I expect to be the first inline for payback in the event of a bankruptcy-I don’t want to be behind some stock fund that speculated on performance… this understanding is what drives most large investment in our economy…

the left- including yourself- have watered down ( pun intended) the use of the word torture for purely political reasons...
"waterboarding = torture" is an article of faith for the left.

Posted by: heartburn | May 5, 2009 10:16 AM

Heartburn, is John McCain a lefty who watered down the definition of torture for political reasons?
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“Anyone who knows what waterboarding is could not be unsure. It is a horrible torture technique used by Pol Pot and being used on Buddhist monks as we speak,” said McCain after a campaign stop at Dordt College here.

“People who have worn the uniform and had the experience know that this is a terrible and odious practice and should never be condoned in the U.S. We are a better nation than that.”
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Are you more of an expert on torture than John McCain, or as a righty do you just believe waterboarding does not equal torture as an article of faith?

Heartburn, is John McCain a lefty who watered down the definition of torture for political reasons?

Posted by: Mel | May 5, 2009 10:53 AM

Might be philosopical- but there is no argument that there is not a moral equivalance between McCain and Khalid Sheik Mohammed...( hoping we can take this as a given)...

There is no legal equivalence as McCain was protected with Geneva convention rights where KSM was not..

And there could be no comparison of what McCain went through (torture) to what is now being called torture (waterboarding)...

So yes - McCain is watering doen the definition of torture if he is using his personal perspective as a gauge of what torture is..

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"Onbams admon has allowed for unions to gain a stake in the company with no concessions, placing bond holders with secured loans other than first in line is wrong this is different than in your words " A minority of lenders refusi[ing] the negotiated settlement", "
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Simply NOT the case heartburn, again you are mistaken on the facts. Chrylser negotiated a resolution with the unions, because the unions are a major debtor of the corporation. The corporation owes money to union health care and retirement funds. In fact, the union is making major concessions, and taking on a great deal of risk. The Obama Administration forced no resolution, as proved by the fact that there is no resolution, Chrysler having been forced to declare bankruptcy because an agreement could not be reached with ALL parties.
Heartburn, bankruptcy terms are negotiated all the time. This is nothing unique in any way. It is generally in the best interest of the debtors for a corporation not to be liquidated, and as a result they are often willing to negotiate alternate terms, as the majority of Chrysler's secured debtors were. The negotiations failed, and bankruptcy followed, just as the law requires. Hardly fascism is it?

So yes - McCain is watering doen the definition of torture if he is using his personal perspective as a gauge of what torture is..

Posted by: heartburn | May 5, 2009 12:23 PM

Wow. Just Wow. Tell you what heartburn. Here's the phone number of John McCain's Senate office in DC. 202-224-2235. Give him a call and set him straight. Educate him from your vast knowledge of what does and does not constitute torture. Take him to task for watering down the definition for political gain. Got guts enough to do that? Got guts enough to tell McCain he doesn't understand torture as well as you do?

Pretty fast and loose with the negotiated word- more like made an offer they couldn't refuse ...

The unions pension funds held non secured Chrysler debt -they were offered a stake in the company over and before the secured holders of the debt- this is not only NOT a concession it basically moved them to a more preferred spot..

Sure they are at risk- they should be- their only means of existence is completely tied to the companies survival..

Posted by: Mel | May 5, 2009 1:31 PM

Wow- wish more people would have given McCain such credibility during the campaign-we wouldn't be much better off, but we would be better off right now..
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So your argument is that only tortured people are allowed an opinion on what is torture or not?

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So should only women be able to have an opinion about abortion?
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Should only military experts make decisions about war and defense spending?

Should only taxpayers be allowed to have an opinion about tax cuts or increases?

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In fact-related to torture couldn't the opposite be true.. I could argue that because of McCains experience he would not be a credible decision maker about what is and what is not torture.. if he were in a jury pool for a court case to decide whether or not Waterboarding is torture-his experiences woulld disqualify him because of his impartiality...
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Have you called Pelosi's office to ask why she did nothing when she knew this horrible thing was happening?
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IN fact , did Obama or any member of congress do anything in the last 4 years to specifically outlaw waterboarding to save us from "losing our moral compass"?

No heartburn, I don't think McCain's opinion ends the discussion, however, unlike you, I think it is an opinion that bears listening to, and a great deal of consideration. Unlike you I don't pretend that I know more about torture than McCain. Unlike you, I'm not willing to dismiss him out of hand and declare that waterboarding is only considered to be torture by lefties for political purposes. I think there is a very real and serious issue here which merits disclosure, discussion and debate. I personally find your willingess to dismiss McCain's opinion on the subject, specifically because he suffered torture while serving this country, to be repulsive. But then, what else should I have expected from someone like you who is so enamored of waterboarding that they will brook no criticism of the practice?

In fact the Senate and the House did pass a bill specifically outlawing waterboarding. Bush vetoed it.
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN08379875

Posted by: Mel | May 5, 2009 3:20 PM

I never dismissed it- I just don't consider it the end all..like you had in your challenge for me to call his office.

My problem with Obama ( and your argument) is his framing the decision to use waterboarding as some knee jerk reaction ... the memos themselves speak to the amount of consideration put into the decision. The decision to use the techniques were not made frivolously- and they are backed up with the fact that they did prevent planned attacks.

Hard to have a legit discussion if the other party dismisses your position out of hand, and without considering the context the decision was made in as a loss of morality ...

just saying

heartburn, here's the problem. We have no idea if waterboarding stopped attacks. We have no idea whether waterboarding was in fact more effective than other means, means that have been extremely effective in every conflict the US took part in prior to Bush. The Bush Administration and the CIA steadfastly refused to review the decisions and the effectiveness of the program. You accept that it worked because you accept everything any member of the Bush Administration says without question, but there simply is not proof behind it. You are willing to take their word as all that's needed, and that any attempt to review those decisions as an evil witch hunt. You are so committed to that position that you are willing to say that John McCain has 'watered down" the definition of torture. You're not interested in the truth, your only interested in the protection of the Bush Administration's every act and thought. It is, in fact you, that dismisses any position except that of the Bush Administration out of hand.
Oh, and by the way, you're welcome for the information about what the Democratic Congress did to attempt to outlaw waterboarding. I was impressed with your heart felt and humble admission that you were wrong, and had no idea what the real facts were, as was the case with the Chrysler bankruptcy.

Mel- that veto wa a veto of a bill that included many changes to intelligence process - not just waterboarding, and if I remember correctly Mccain voted against it as well... DEM congress leaders put waterboarding in the bill and dared the Presidnt to veto it- he did.. to say that they made a serious attempt to define waterboarding as torture or illegal with this bill is a joke..your humble admission that you way overreached with your example is not required.

BTW - you never reponded to my comments about Chrysler-

"IN fact , did Obama or any member of congress do anything in the last 4 years to specifically outlaw waterboarding to save us from "losing our moral compass"?"

Heartburn, the fact is that the Democtrats did pass a bill that would have made waterboarding illegal. The fact also is that Bush vetoed it. The Democrats did everything they could do. The Republicans, like you, loving the use of torture, blocked it.

Sorry, buddy, but spin it all you like, but you were wrong. Just like you were about the specifics of the Chrysler bankruptcy. I don't have any more time to argue with with somone who is either as misinformed, or as dishonest as you are. An arguement minus the facts is no arguement at all, and sadly, you are sorely lacking in facts. Try reading something. It might help. Have a nice night.