Obama: Healthcare 'bang for the buck'

It is funny how some in the Media complain when we have a Do-nothing Congress, and then turn around and complain if the President wants Congress to do Somehing constructive for the whole of humanity and say, not so fast, it cannot be done, and so again they become a Do-Nothing Congress!

I say Congress has the smarts and ingenuity to come up with a workable plan, after all, that is their job to come up with plans to benefit all and not the few....

It can be done and I admire and like a Leader who can inspire and visiualize the possibility, and who is not negative and pessimistic. We must be wary of the those Republicans who continually say not so fast (yet, we have been sinking for far too long in the quicksand of medical greed and mismanagement), and that he (the Pres. is losing support), because the more they say it, they think, the more this will become a manifestation. They do not really care about humanity but about their political careers and their cushy salaries, power and perks. The U.S. is in the sorry situation it is in because of politicians like this, who have taken and given nothing back to humanity.

Those reporters who care deeply about the U.S. and its future must speak up for the possiblities which must be implemented if we are to get back to a U.S. that is whole and healthy and prospersous. Congress should manifest laws which sustain the whole and not be allowed to do nothing or to think they can do nothing. Pres. Obama leads by Expecting Congress to do their Job. It is time to forge a new pathway and leave the past failures and neglect in the past.

All of America should be outraged at the state of our Health-scare. It is killing people, because they don't have the money to afford decent, efficient healthcare, as our Congressmen and other elected officials receive, at, virtually, cost free. Healthscare Corporations are limiting what their " clients ' can receive, in terms of coverage. That is far from the ' choice " opponents of President Obama's plan claim. Talk about rationing, that is exactly what the present Healthscare Corporations are doing to us. Denying us coverage, based on their bottom line. That is an outrage and America should shout loudly: No more profits, before people's health.
Please do not bring up that " boogieman " nonsense about a " government-run option " ! Our government must be doing something right, I don't see too many people wanting to leave this good country and it's " government-run " !!
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, BRING THEM HOME, ALIVE AND WHOLE. NOW.

To use the word "reform" is a total misnomer ', the word should be catastrophic destruction. Spend a trillion five borrowed bucks to save money! Does that even sound logical? To cut costs there will be rationing and a gov't regulator to cut off care due to age or cost/value ratios. So you can kiss Grandma and Grandpa goodbye when a gov't. mandated age is reached and their healthcare costs becomes too extreme vs. quantity or quality of life remaining. Then, as we grow older, we will be next in line. It will also eliminate those newborns whose medical care exceeds certain abstract gov't guidelines for costs vs. return of value for a life to become a viable taxpayer to support the system. Long lines, yes, just like any gov't service. Denial of expensive meds, you better believe it. Appeals for care above and beyond gov't. guidelines, forget it, one will be dead first. Tax the rich, the money is not there or will disappear into loopholes. How about taxing small business, the economic engine of our country. Great idea, tax them out of business or force them to cut employees to cover the addition gov't mandated fees (yes sir, "we will create 3.5 million new jobs"), just see the car dealers who got tossed under the political favoring bus wheels. Eventually the average wage earners will be taxed as the costs spiral out of control. And those announced WH savings, just an illusion and an Obama pipe dream, just like that campaign promise to cut waste in gov't. (see where "stimulus" dollars are spent). Are the trial lawyers going to take a hit on reforms to reduce the cost of medical malpractice and their associated legal issues? Not a chance! Will Congress sign up to be covered on their new plan? Nah, they will exempt themselves as usual. This is as bad as it gets folks, another massive spending, big tax, job killing boondoggle and a total charade of disingenuous hype and false promises (see "stimulus" promises) that will result in serious damage to our country and our healthcare in America.

"We've got to have a system that controls costs, gives people choices -- makes sure that we get a good bang for the buck.''

-Pres Obama

Obama is half right-those who own a business or who pay taxes will surely get a "big bang" in the increased tax liabilty...

When he says "the buck" he is comepletly ignoring whose "bucks" ( or +$1Trillion bucks) he is referring to-- they are not his bucks, or the Dem congresses bucks- they are the bucks of people who work, risked capital to invest in a business and hire people. Who will , if this nonsense passes, be doing much less earning, hiring and risk taking-

Liberalism at your service-- take your money, spend it on others then tell you how good of a person they are for doing it...

Bubba is right. We cannot allow Governement rationing of healthcare to replace For profit insurance company rationing of healthcare. Decisions about what services your doctor can provide you should stay with your insurance companny where it belongs. We need to make decisions about what expensive drugs may be adminstered to the ill based on what is best for an insurance corporations bottom line. Anything else is unamerican!

Liberalism at your service-- take your money, spend it on others then tell you how good of a person they are for doing it...

Posted by: heartburn | July 16, 2009 11:24 AM

Conbservatism at your service: Concentrating more wealth in the hands of the already wealthy while telling the poor that they aren't worthy of basic services like healtcare, and then telling themselves would good caring Christians they are.

Nice rant, bubba; too bad you have no facts. Did you get that fiction from Beck or Limbaugh? And it's a trillion over ten years, not the bogus figure you and Newt are using.

Bubba P. and heartburn have done the heavy lifting, here. If you can't see where this is headed, the koolade has just totally overwhelmed your inability for any rational reasoning.

Saw this in a highly respected travel publication that was looking to explain the 3.3X cost factor for renting a U-Haul from SF, Ca to Austin, Tx versus the opposite direction. That stated explanation:
"California has a large supply of people who are demanding to move to Texas".

democrats, liberals, leftists, u never seem to understand supply and demand ~ don't worry about it.

Socialism already has its death throat grip in too many of the Blue states, and the loyal subjects thereof. So, please, just stay wherever the hell you are. No need for u lemmings to personally import Hell.

It will be one helluva of a diaspora when some of the deadheads finally realize though what Mustapha Mond and the leftist lackeys will have perpetrated with all of their money-robbing socialist programs. Please, just remember that U-Hauls are anything but green, so just stay wherever the hell u are, in your own broke-down do-nothing Hell that u have perfected.

Napthenic Tx Lube Oils ~ $9500 per quart, Absolutely NO Credit. Rick Perry and I need to talk.

One Congressman has proposed that any member of Congress who votes FOR ObamaCare be required to enroll IN ObamaCare.

The Do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do Democrats oppose this. Which is perhaps the best argument against ObamaCare.

Django, heartburn and Bubba are all right. They get to the core of the issue. Who cares if some people don't have access to healthcare? We don't need to concern ourselves with that. Those people simply do not matter. Forget about them. We only should be concerned about what is best for the wealthy business owner. If having 15% of the population not have health insurance makes thing better for the wealthy, that's a small price to pay. I'm sure those guys are with me in saying that if the number of uninsured went up to 30% or even 50% that simply is nothing any of us should be bothered by. It is, in fact probably a goal we should be working toward. Why should your employer pay for you to have healthinusrence? The business would do better if they didn't, and that's all that matters. I'm sure those guys, like me, have demanded that their employer terminate their health insurance coverage, for the good of the company. We must all join with them in our sacred goal: healthcare for the few, sacrifice for everyone else.

With the Republican smear-the-public-option campaign---designed by Wingnut mouth-breather Frank Luntz---in full swing, here's a handy, crystal-clear rebuttal you can print out and leave on windshields and utility poles (and even in emergency rooms!) across America:

5 THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT PRESIDENT OBAMA'S PUBLIC HEALTH INSURANCE OPTION

1. Choice, choice, choice. If the public health insurance option passes, Americans will be able to choose between their current insurance and a high-quality, government-run plan similar to Medicare. If you like your current care, you can keep it. If you don't—or don't have any—you can get the public insurance plan.

2. It will be high-quality coverage with a choice of doctors. Government-run plans have a track record of innovating to improve quality, because they're not just focused on short-term profits. And if you choose the public plan, you'll still get to choose your doctor and hospital.

3. We'll all save a bunch of money. The public health insurance option won't have to spend money on things like CEO bonuses, shareholder dividends, or excessive advertising, so it'll cost a lot less. Plus, the private plans will have to lower their rates and provide better value to compete, so people who keep their current insurance will save, too.

4. It will always be there for you and your family. A for-profit insurer can close, move out of the area, or just kick you off their insurance rolls. The public health insurance option will always be available to provide you with the health security you need.

5. And it's a key part of universal health care. No longer will sick people or folks in rural communities, or low-income Americans be forced to go without coverage. The public health insurance plan will be available and accessible to everyone. And for those struggling to make ends meet, the premiums will be subsidized by the government.

It might not hurt to give your senators a jingle and ask 'em which they embrace more: campaign contributions from the big insurance lobby and Frank Luntz's Republican propaganda, or historic legislation that will enhance their legacy and make them heroes among their constituents for improving the health and well-being of all Americans. Be patient---sadly, it could take some of 'em a while to decide.

Our health care system is disintegrating. Today, 46 million people have no health insurance and even more are underinsured with high deductibles and co-payments. At a time when 60 million people, including many with insurance, do not have access to a medical home, more than 18,000 Americans die every year from preventable illnesses because they do not get to the doctor when they should. This is six times the number who died at the tragedy of 9/11 - but this occurs every year.

In the midst of this horrendous lack of coverage, the U.S. spends far more per capita on health care than any other nation - and health care costs continue to soar. At $2.4 trillion dollars, and 18 percent of our GDP, the skyrocketing cost of health care in this country is unsustainable both from a personal and macro-economic perspective.

It always makes me laugh when I hear people say they want to preserve "insurance choice" in this country. What choice do you have when you work and are nominally "insured," but your insurance coverage doesn't pay for anything you need? Are you then going to have the ability to run out and purchase extra coverage on the wages you make? Well, I guess you have the "choice" to rob a bank or maybe win the lottery to pay for it, but that's about it.

Republicans and their rich oligarchy supporters will do anything to kill a good healthcare bill because they know people will like it and when that happens their electoral goose will be cooked for generations - if it's not already.

Republicans know that a successful health care reform that achieves universal coverage will bury them electorally for a generation. Health insurers and Big Pharma know that a powerful public option and a Medicare bargaining for prices will kick them off the gravy train permanently. Republicans and Big Insurance Company propagandists know their scare tactics aren't nearly as scary as reality for the large majority of Americans.

I think if President, VP Biden, members of the House & Senate, Cabinet members, Czars and their families are willing to be a part of this "fabulous" program and take out that 5 year exemption they allowed for themselves before they are part of the program it would show they have confidence in their own program. If it is good enough for the people of this country it should be good enough for them and their families and they should not be entitled to a 5 year exemption. They want this program, well I say prove it, put yourselves and your families in it first!

We all remember the commercials that were made by Republicans and their pals at the Big Insurance Industry to trick Americans into thinking that health care reform would hurt average working families. We now see what has happened to the health-care system. CEOs rake in the big bucks from the huge profits they take in as health-insurance costs have skyrocketed.

FierceHealthcare reports the following top 10 CEO salaries for 2008:
------------------------------------------------------
* Ron Williams - Aetna - Total Compensation: $24,300,112.
* H. Edward Hanway - CIGNA - Total Compensation: $12,236,740.
* Angela Braly - WellPoint - Total Compensation: $9,844,212.
* Dale Wolf - Coventry Health Care - Total Compensation: $9,047,469.
* Michael Neidorff - Centene - Total Compensation: $8,774,483.
* James Carlson - AMERIGROUP - Total Compensation: $5,292,546.
* Michael McCallister - Humana - Total Compensation: $4,764,309.
* Jay Gellert - Health Net - Total Compensation: $4,425,355.
* Richard Barasch - Universal American - Total Compensation: $3,503,702.
* Stephen Hemsley - UnitedHealth Group - Total Compensation: $3,241,042.

My rates go up and coverage goes down every time I turn around. And then they just decide not to cover certain medications without an explanation. Even scumbag criminals are resurfacing like Rick Scott to try and con America for a second time -- and the corporate media does nothing about it.
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http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/dont-let-third-way-ben-nelsons-or-repub

Django, you usually make a certain amount of sense, when not contorting the word socialism; but today I suspect you are on peyote, mi amigo. You need to write in English here, for our benefit.

Django, you usually make a certain amount of sense, when not contorting the word socialism; but today I suspect you are on peyote, mi amigo. You need to write in English here, for our benefit.

Ask yourself this:
If your employer announced that you were going to be laid off tomorrow because of the economy, and that if you wanted to continue your insurance coverage by COBRA, it would cost of $915 a month (the average cost), how long would you be able to keep yourself and your family covered? Nationally, COBRA coverage costs around 83% of the average unemployment benefit....and that's just fine with the angry old rich white guys who make up the Republican party, but the rest of us here in the real world can't afford it.
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http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09010/940941-28.stm

The insurance crisis could be your problem, tomorrow, through no fault of your own, as it has for millions of hard working americans in the last few months.

Flo, given that we have lost another 24 troops in the new Obama Afghan "just" war (now with a Bush inspired, Obama endorsed "surge") without a major meltdown from the lefties or the MSM, I would wager the rest of my life that the cost figures that Obama and the Dems. are tossing around, are so grossly under-estimated that if this boondoggle is passed that taxes will go up on every living being in America. By the way, I misspoke about long lines for some healthcare treatment in gov't. run programs. In Canada, one can receive, prompt, 24/7, state of the art healthcare for pets and animals. Humans have lengthly waits for the same type of treatment. Ani't that just precious!

Here is something we should all aspire to. I couldn't have designed a better health care plan than these Bozos.

http://www.palmettoscoop.com/2009/07/15/obamas-health-care-maze/

If you want a look at a preview of gov't health care and the rationing that occurs - look no further than what our gov;t does with health care on the Indian reservations.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090615/ap_on_go_ot/us_health_care_s_forgotten

Antacid, liberalism is all about destroying everyone, rich and poor alike. Under liberalism, the poor will always remain poor and the rich will enter the realm of the poor.
Obumbles health care plan is nothing more than another government attack on business. It will not make health care better, it will just make it worse and make everyone poor! Change, you gotta love it!

I was quoting the CBO figures, bubba, not Obama's. I think you should make a trip to Europe before you decide 47 million uninsured people is acceptable. How the wars in the middle east apply here is a mystery to me, but I've been asking for months if you support withdrawing our troops and you never have an answer, just a whine.

Here is a view of the future:

http://www.biggovhealth.org/stories

"Access to a waiting list is not access to health care," wrote Canadian Chief Justice Beverley McLachlin when striking down legislation banning private insurance in 2005.

http://www.heartland.org/policybot/results/23230/Universal_Health_Care_Is_the_Wrong_Prescription.html

Speaking of the CBO, they sure are sold on the new government health care reform for all Americans. A chicken in every pot! Check out the good news:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/16/AR2009071602242.html

Thanks Owebama. Keep eating the rich. It's not like they're providing us with employment or anything through what used to be investment. Everyone knows it's government stimulus that creates jobs.

We must pass this bill before anyone has a chance to read it. Transparency you can believe in.

A country of opportunity and initiative has become one of envy and entitlement. It's a pathetic thing to witness.

Also not reported on by Mark Silva, because he takes his orders from David Axelrod and not journalism integrity, but there are major problems within the Democrapic party over Obumbles policies. A few dozen so-called "Blue Dog Democrats" are against the Obumbles plan and how it's being handled in Congress by Nancy Peloony and her Gestapo gang. Silva also doesn't report that the CBO says the country can't contine to sustain the Obumbles spending spree. And the poll numbers for Obumbles are begining to enter free-fall territory. All of his promises are falling flat and not coming true. No wonder Obumbles, Peloony and Harry "Illegal Land Deals" Reid are in a desperate hurry to push through more plans without debate or public comment. They know if the folks found out, the sane in this nation would yell, "Stop! We don't want Obama Socialism"

Flo and Medical Treatment Deprived Subjects,

I do understand that our current insurance system does not reach your demanding standard of perfection. Just have a few queries, in need of some assurances, before I can see the latest scheme that u are so anxious to, again, assume the position for.

How does your health care become better by placing Mustapha Mond and a bunch of democrats and bureaucrats within that loop? Is this new toy going to be rolled out to its’ adoring subjects free of the usual allotment of incredibly stupid and non-decipherable guidelines? The legislation language already exceeds 1,000 pages that no one will bother to read until it is too late.

Do u really think that they will really care whether all of your medical needs are met to your satisfaction or not? The doctor now works for Mustapha, not u. To them you will be just another grating sicko that someone at the DMV just got done-with the day before, back again now with more issues and irritating demands.

Where do all the extra, cheap doctors, nurses, clinics, and hospitals come from? What is better ~ extra or cheap? They will have to ration treatment and make decisions on who gets what. At some point, u will have used up “your share”.

As vla at 3:46 p.m. noted, why are the Elitists ENTITLED to a 5 year exemption? Would that not tend to tell you something? What do u think Mustapha’s Waiting Room will look like? Do u think that u would ever see him there?

I can ABSOLUTELY guarantee u that Sheila Jackson Lee, democrat, of the 18th Congressional District will demand the absolute best. If necessary she will unhook your IV and roll your sick-to- dead a$$ out into the street. U will spend your last moments fighting off traffic, petty criminals, and opportunistic buzzards.

Is your health situation so persistently bad that yet another large tax increase on anyone willing to drag up every morning and do time on a job a necessary means to this end? There can never be enough taxes to satisfy the leftists.

101,000 Americans die UNNECESSARILY each year because of lack of access to basic medical care that they would get in most other industrialized nations.
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http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Content/Publications/In-the-Literature/2008/Jan/Measuring-the-Health-of-Nations--Updating-an-Earlier-Analysis.aspx

I keep asking my "Canada bashing" kool-aid drinking Wingnut friends to find me just ONE comprehensive poll in Canada showing that Canadians would swap their health care system, warts and all, for ours...Haven't seen any yet.

And believe me, if there were any polls favorable to the Republican cause of denying healthcare to everyone, the Republican minions would be linking to them all day long. Instead, all they have is a handfull of anecdotes that they got from Druggy Limbaugh and Glenn Beck etc.

Obama's Healthcare will be total Dictatorship over our health and well being.

You people who fear that the government will decide what treatment you get...The insurance companies that make massive profits already do that. Insurance companies have a list of accepted treatments that are standard protocol for a particular disease. Should your doctor order a treatment or test that is not part of that protocol, payment is denied.

I suppose until the day that the people who are against healthcare reform suffer an unforeseen illness, their minds will be closed to making things better for all. Some people are just reactive, not proactive. They will do nothing until they find themselves in a crisis.

I would like to know why these people who are against reform hate America so much. Please explain to me why a healthy American populace and healthcare for all is a bad thing. Is it not better for business to have a healthy workforce? Doesn't a business lose less production time if their workers are well and on the job?

Django, your constant reference to Mustapha whatever makes your comments incomprehensible, but 'good luck with that.' There is no 'perfect' plan, Django, in fact there is no 'one plan' yet proposed; but the current situation sucks and is getting worse, so what is your suggestion?? Do nothing? Sheila Jackson Lee isn't really relevant to anything I've said, so I'll leave your rightwing talking points to someone else.

"How does your health care become better by placing Mustapha Mond and a bunch of democrats and bureaucrats within that loop?" Posted by: Django - N Exile In.......
Perhaps, my man, the profiteering insurance company employee currently rationing your care is a sweet latina taking good care of your needs; but others aren't so lucky and prefer a choice, so why not make it available to those whose only option now is the ER? What is your suggestion? Those of you with good emplyer-subsidized health ins. and no fear of being laid off--good for you, but not everyone is so lucky.

Dajango, Hate to break it to you, but the doctor doesn'tk for you now. The doctor works for the insurance companies and the HMOs. The primary interest driving decisions about your healthcare is noit what's best for your health, Rather, the primary inrterest is what the insurance company will pay for, and what will maximize that comapnies profiots. You are living in a fantasy world if you believe otherwise. Django, your insurance company won't hesitate for a second to deny life saving care to you or your children.

Socialism is the new Republican buzzword. It's getting old. Get over it losers.

Funny how live and let live in this Swamp item has EXACTLY the same post as either XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX or Rupert in another Swamp item on Obumbles health care escapade?

Flo,
Sheila Jackson Lee, democrat, 18th Congressional District is the ultimate Elitist. She will support anything and everything to take away your rights and your freedom, but she herself, will demand the absolutely very best. That would include restaurants, hotels, limousines, air travel, and health care. Don’t find yourself caught in her path, for any reason. U would need extensive re-hab.

Mustapha Mond is the Alpha World Controller in Aldous Huxley’s “Brave New World”, now a literary classic. Mustapha lectures the unwashed, he shrewdly grabs political power and status. He explains to the savages why his way is superior to anything any God guy would ever make available. He manipulates life and extends youth. Most of all, he ensures that Freedom is sacrificed for the good of his “ultimate” society. A Literary Classic. Let’s just say that I am NOT down with the program. If you were to put a Republican in charge, I am NOT down with the program.

Rupert, as you probably already know, my health issues dissolve into the ether with just the appearance of a sweet, pretty Latina. Don’t need no functionary, doctor, or insurance plan. I DO appreciate what you are saying because not everyone has that working for them.

Absolutely no argument here that people should have a choice or choices. That is what I fear would be taken away directly, underhandedly, or due to the uneven playing field of competing against a huge enterprise that has no problem incurring large losses for as long as it takes. That would or should be a very real concern.

Rupert, being laid off IS the reality for me RIGHT NOW. The industry that I do engineering work for, Oil and Gas, is very much in the Mustapha Mond (sorry, Flo) crosshairs in this very moment. Innumerable projects have already been cancelled due to the New World Order. A great development for the energy hate-ing wing of the democrat party, Not much good for me. That is a whole essay in and of itself.

My masters degree in Math will allow me to survive in other ways (I think) as I have done in the past, but this is the “change” that I really do not need, but surely did expect. I very likely will be uninsured in the near term. The Liberals just keep on winning. If I do, nothing but the sweet pretty Latinas will be able to provide any kind of real “hope”. Well, whatever.

Rupert, not only is it xtremely hot here, but someone is also messing with the pretty Latinas within my inner circle. Three of them, out of four, used the four letter “L” word within this past week in a sentence of only three words in length. That sentence had a subject and a pronoun objective. Only Salma Hayek Lite was the outlier. Man, I just about dropped my guitar and passed out on the floor. Still don’t know what that was all about.

I am probably more in agreement with you than you would want to safely think. Guitars, Latinas, and Freedom ~ have to manage the rest, but can’t live without any of those Constitutional necessities.

Nel,

I probably have been blessed with relatively good health. I can acknowledge that. If we accept your premise with respect to where the doctors' real sympathies are, what will have changed in the new scheme of things? I think that you will have far less access to that uncaring doctor than you do now. He / She will suddenly have a huge patient back-log. U will have to tell your story quick, and move on.

My current doctor usually starts by telling me how infrequently we seem to visit. He then does a quick examination. We agree on what will probably work, consistent with the severity of need. We discuss the next course of action, IF necessary. We agree that we "hope" that it won't be necessary. I show him some neat jazz chords ~ seriously, and I am on my way. By my standards, our relationship is in balance. No unnecessary, expensive tests, and I stay healthy. Dr. Hung learns some new guitar chords for his personal pleasure. I don't seem to have the medical problems that everyone else seems to have.

I recognize that everything could stand some improvement. I would just "hope" that patient-doctor relationships, families, businesses, industries, are not wiped out in the name of "hope" and "change", or in the name of resolving this "crisis". I have to be suspect, because it is suspect.

"He / She will suddenly have a huge patient back-log. U will have to tell your story quick, and move on. "
Why would there be a backlog Django? Would that be because many people who don't now have access to good medical care would under the plan?
So in other words, you're happy that many people don't have access to good healthcare, so that you don't have to wait so much. You are acknowledging that we are currently rationing healthcare, andare demanding that the rationing continue for your benefit. You want healthcare services denied to others, out of fear that you might not be first priority. Are you in some way more deserving of seeing Dr. Hung than those other people who don't have insurance now, who might get it under this plan? I'm sure you'd be willing to kick a few poor kids out of the way to get to see the doctor first though Django. Compassion for others cetainly wouldn't stop you from shoving your way in front of them.

Nel,

I am not a democrat or a Liberal, I have no desire to take away anything from anyone. That is strictly what liberals / democrats do. The “poor kids” can certainly have my spot in the doctor’s que. The next time that I’m sick, I will try to schedule one. U have somehow confused me with Sheila Jackson Lee, 18th Congressional District. That would be your “shover” and the elite democrat that is entitled to, and demands, “first priority”.

Nel, I cannot argue with this seemingly very common line of democrat / liberal thinking. That is, because someone else doesn’t have something, then neither should I. Or that I want to see others denied health care or some other need. I am not trying to stop anyone from getting insurance or anything else that is otherwise legally obtainable. Hell, in another month or two, I probably won’t have insurance either.

I have not met you and don’t think that you have met me. There is no way for you to know one way or the other what type of “compassion” that I have or don’t have for others. Liberals always want to do wonderful things with someone else’s money, because, I guess, they have so much “compassion”. Am I supposed to be impressed by that? Where is your compassion? Will you be looking for a “poor kid” to take YOUR place in the que line when you are sick? What kind of inane argument is this anyway?

There are no doubt many ways to fix things, but to destroy something because it works less than perfectly in order to replace it with something that, if anything, has already been shown to have many defects and shortcomings, does not suggest to me that this is a real solution. Instead of always being focused on the “Take Away” part of the equation, why can’t liberals ever address finding a real solution that actually addresses the core problem?

To me, it is like the Liberal solution for racism. That would be ~ Let's have more racism. The Liberal solution for a foreign attack ~ We should surrender. The Liberal solution for crime ~ Just turn 'em loose. Sorry, I don't get it. I don't get any of your "solutions".

People could, and do, die in this socialistic system with intensive waiting and no doubt a lot of paper shuffling. Well, “hopefully” that person that dies, will be Django, and not some “poor kid”, but is this your better system? Did you bother to read my very first sentence @ 2:04 p.m.? I NEVER feel that I deserve anything, but I do try to give myself reasonable odds, if that is o.k. with you. Have we ever met?

Obama is in full court press mode, but he hasn't connected the dots on how the so-called "public option" is going to help anything. I’ve heard the canned rhetoric about it being necessary for competition and "to keep insurance companies honest". But what does that really mean? Is he saying that insurance companies are not competing now? Price fixing? Agreements in restraint of trade? These would be anti-trust violations. If BO really believed these things, wouldn't his DOJ be all over it? If there is no illegal price fixing going on, then how does adding another insurance company at tax payer expense help with anything?

The main goals of reform, as I understand them, are to ban insurance companies from disqualifying people from coverage because of pre-existing conditions, and to make care in general more affordable, which in theory would make it accessible to everyone. As to the former, that can be done through regulation, as opposed to creating a government run company. As to the latter, I've seen nothing in the public option plan that controls cost, and neither does the CBO. It is creating bigger government for the sake of creating bigger government. It makes no sense.

I can understand the point of view of those who distrust insurance companies and their profit motive. But what I don't understand is the blind trust of the federal government. The only real precedent we can look to for how the federal government would run its public option is Medicare, which is an unmitigated financial disaster. It would be bankrupt if it wasn't a government program that some believe can be funded indefinitely by borrowed money. In light of this, I'm trying to figure out why anyone would disfavor government’s proper role as a regulator, in favor of creating another inefficient, albatross entitlement program.

The only thing I can come up with is that the real goal of the left is a single payer government system. I think this is supported by this weird allegiance to a "public option", despite no real evidence that it would help control costs or improve care. There is no way a private plan could compete with a public option, when the public option's premiums are subsidized by the government. That is not competition. Competition would be to offer the subsidies, then give the consumer the choice of whether to use it on either the public or a private plan. Fat chance of that. And why on earth would any employer keep paying the expense of health care insurance for employees if they could dump that on the federal government? Indeed, why would anyone? Especially if we are being taxed to pay for the public option, and you are delusional if you don't think that is coming, whether through income taxes, soft drink taxes, health plan taxes, whatever. It's becoming more and more clear to me that the real goal of this Administration is an eventual single payer system. I think that has been the goal of the left for a long time. I just wish the Administration would have the honesty/integrity to admit it, instead of having the fictional debate that those who question whatever hair brained plan is in front of Congress at the moment is in favor of the status quo.

What, John D? I think you have a temperament problem.

America is government-run and I don't see anyone leaving America, because it doesn't work !! Get real, America can do anything, her citizens want to do !! If we want a government-run option, to compete with the Health-scare Monolithic Empire, than I know we can do it !! Stop the Health-scare Industry's rationing !! Citizen's health before profits !!
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, BRING THEM HOME, ALIVE AND WHOLE. NOW.

Django says: To me, it is like the Liberal solution for racism. That would be ~ Let's have more racism. The Liberal solution for a foreign attack ~ We should surrender. The Liberal solution for crime ~ Just turn 'em loose. Sorry, I don't get it. I don't get any of your "solutions".
Django, you might wish to spend more time telling us your good ideas and stop lying about us. This is bs, Pat Buchanan, Jr.

Hola Flo,

Que tal’ today. No, Flo, I truly do not get any of the standard Liberal “solutions”. I used to be a Liberal, but finally had to recognize that there was not anything that they seemed to believe in that I too believed in.

Maybe it was the Weather Underground and their bombing operations when I was in college. Maybe it was John Lennon singing about “Revolution” which could have been more appropriately named “Anti-Revolution”. Many things within my Church that I often seem to take exception to, but abortion is not one of them. There should be a clear recognition of the difference between what Israel does and what Hamas, Hezbollah, and al Fatah typically do that forces Israel to have to do anything. Democrats (capitalized D) never acknowledge that in any way. I’m a mongrel. So a little race based discrimination probably helps me, but I would never want to be defined by that. Would not know which one box to check anyway. It would be my “hope” to be able to move beyond that sordid business once and for all within my lifetime.

Flo, mi amiga, when I came unto The Swamp, as a virgin, I made the mistake of trying to debate some issue or another with a locked in Democrat (capitalized D) in a reasonably rational manner, with some respect for the loyal opposition. Didn’t call anyone a Leftist, a Socialist, or a Marxist, tried to present an alternative point of view, hopefully a few facts to support that view, etc. In no time at all we were doing the name callin’ thing. The upside of that though, is that it did lead me to my Pretty Latina Theory of Global Warming, because facts will get you absolutely nowhere. Now, Django’s Theory of Global Warming is an indisputable fact. I at least did follow the Scientific Method and that is the way the Scientific Method is supposed to work.

Flo, mi amiga, again, I do not look to insult or offend you. Neither, though, will I ever be your standard 2009 version Democrat attuned to the message of the usual suspects, of whom we discussed last week. Again, I capitalize the “D”. Elections have consequences and this is your moment. I have to roll with that, but I can’t roll with some democrat trying to lecture me about “compassion”.

No one, certainly not this Nel person, should be making any assumptions about my “compassion” or lack of, or who I would shove, or kick in the teeth, or other accessible areas, and for what? To get in line to see a doctor? When I am For Real sick, I don’t want to go. Shoving and kicking is something that a heathen would do. Part of my Latina method is to not come at them in heathen mode. At this point, though, in the lecture on “compassion” process, we will be doing some name callin’, lying, cheating, stealing, and cussin’. All of the above, and Good luck with that. Peace, mi amiga.

Herbie @ 4:53 p.m.'
Most Xcellently stated. Thanx!

AMERICA’S NATIONAL HEALTHCARE EMERGENCY!

It’s official. America and the World are now in a GLOBAL PANDEMIC. A World EPIDEMIC with potential catastrophic consequences for ALL of the American people. The first PANDEMIC in 41 years. And WE THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES will have to face this PANDEMIC with the 37th worst quality of healthcare in the developed World.

STAND READY AMERICA TO SEIZE CONTROL OF YOUR NATIONAL HEALTHCARE SYSTEM.

We spend over twice as much of our GDP on healthcare as any other country in the World. And Individual American spend about ten times as much out of pocket on healthcare as any other people in the World. All because of GREED! And the PRIVATE FOR PROFIT healthcare system in America.

And while all this is going on, some members of congress seem mostly concern about how to protect the corporate PROFITS! of our GREED DRIVEN, PRIVATE FOR PROFIT NATIONAL DISGRACE. A PRIVATE FOR PROFIT DISGRACE that is in fact, totally valueless to the public health. And a detriment to national security, public safety, and the public health.

Progressive democrats the Tri-Caucus and others should stand firm in their demand for a robust government-run public option for all Americans, with all of the minimum requirements progressive democrats demanded. If congress can not pass a robust public option with at least 51 votes and all robust minimum requirements, congress should immediately move to scrap healthcare reform and request that President Obama declare a state of NATIONAL HEALTHCARE EMERGENCY! Seizing and replacing all PRIVATE FOR PROFIT health insurance plans with the immediate implementation of National Healthcare for all Americans under the provisions of HR676 (A Single-payer National Healthcare Plan For All).

Coverage can begin immediately through our current medicare system. With immediate expansion through recruitment of displaced workers from the canceled private sector insurance industry. Funding can also begin immediately by substitution of payroll deductions for private insurance plans with payroll deductions for the national healthcare plan. This is what the vast majority of the American people want. And this is what all objective experts unanimously agree would be the best, and most cost effective for the American people and our economy.

In Mexico on average people who received medical care for A-H1N1 (Swine Flu) with in 3 days survived. People who did not receive medical care until 7 days or more died. This has been the same results in the US. But 50 million Americans don’t even have any healthcare coverage. And at least 200 million of you with insurance could not get in to see your private insurance plans doctors in 2 or 3 days, even if your life depended on it. WHICH IT DOES!

If President Obama has to declare a NATIONAL STATE OF EMERGENCY to rescue the American people from our healthcare crisis, he will need all the sustained support you can give him. STICK WITH HIM! He’s doing a brilliant job.

THIS IS THE BIG ONE!

THE BATTLE OF GOOD Vs EVIL!

Join the fight.

Contact congress and your representatives NOW! AND SPREAD THE WORD!

(http://action.firedoglake.com/page/s/publicoption) (http://www.actblue.com/page/healthcareheroes)

God Bless You

Jacksmith – WORKING CLASS

A new 'incomplete' analysis by congressional budget experts of emerging House legislation said it would increase deficits by $239 billion over a decade.
CBO does not score any savings from prevention / wellness and the rest, even if Prevention / wellness is an actual and essential part of the savings.

Besides, the Times in a July 7 editorial argued “As much as 30 percent of all health-care spending in this country—some $700 billion a year—may be wasted on tests and treatments that do not improve the health of the recipients,” .

And I think the others such as increased productivity, potential stem cell effect, decreased mental stress, and massive job creation considered, the reform might be within reach.
The report of stem cell research turned around the stock markets world-wide, and then what if the reform package clears the Congress ?

“America is government-run and I don't see anyone leaving America, because it doesn't work !!”
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Posted by: Don Fitzgerald, IL | July 18, 2009 12:13 AM
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And you’re not looking either. Had you bothered to look, you would have seen that a lot of people are leaving this country. I happen to know people who are leaving because they can’t stand this place any more. A large part of their reason for leaving is the conduct of the federal government. Vast numbers are leaving because of the screwed up immigration system, thus depriving the US of many tens of thousands of highly skilled workers. Many of those who are leaving also see how government run schools corrupt their children, forcing them to expend more effort and/or money to home-school the kids or send them to private schools. They see how the government is being run irresponsibly, and how it is recklessly ruining the financial system so that our money is crumbling to dust between our fingers. They see how society has become so base and brutal that they can’t even let their children watch television anymore. They also see the US as a warlike and dangerous country that is going to get its comeuppance in due time. So, the fact that YOU tell us that you don’t see anyone leaving America means nothing.
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Furthermore, the US is not mostly government run. Most people’s daily affairs are thankfully run by the people themselves. It is, however, because it is becoming more and more government run that people find it troubling and distasteful. If you were wise, you would know that governments aren’t to be trusted. But, of course, a cheerleader like you wouldn’t know “stuff” from Shinola if each were smeared on your face.

Posted by: John W. | July 19, 2009 9:59 PM \
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John W, If you and the rest of your anti-american zealots want to leave this country: Go! Good Luck. May you find your conservative pardise elsewhere. Perhaps you can engineer a nice right wing coup somwhere to creat tyhe nation of your dreams, since clearly America is not that country for you.Maybe Palin and Her friends in the Alaskan Independance party can help you, or the secessionist Governor of Texas. Go create a country with no social net, where every citizen carries auromatic weapons anytime they want, wherever they want, a country with no business regulation, no public education, a CXhristian Republic where gays have no rights, abortion is banned in all cases, where the media is censored only to provide wholsome Christian programming, where muslims are persecuted, where spending oin the military is the only priority, and where workers are viewed as resources to be exploited, rather than as valued members of society. The US is not going to be that place.

As Lee Ioccca said : If you can find a better deal, take it. If you can find a better country, move there.

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Posted by: A Patriot | July 20, 2009 12:30 PM
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Excuse me? Show me where I wrote that I was leaving? I didn’t say so, did I? I am not leaving, and I am not an “anti-American zealot.”
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What I said is that people are leaving, and that much of their gripe is with the federal government. This is true. Over 100,000 highly skilled, often American trained, engineers and scientists have either returned to their home countries, or are planning to do so because of the way America has treated them. (That - and the fact that they are getting competitive and attractive business offers from home.) Some of them have lived here a very long time, and have even acquired citizenship. These people represent a large part of the high-tech brain-trust in this country, and they cannot be easily replaced. I happen to know this because I live in the Silicon Valley, and many of the people in my neighborhood are among those who have left or are leaving. So go ahead and try to disprove what I said.
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I have to admit, however, that it was very entertaining the way you made a total fool out of yourself by assuming I was some kind of disgruntled right-winger with visions of a secessionist paradise. I’m a Libertarian. I am not a statist like Republicans or you and your Democrat buddies. Thus, unlike you, I have no vision of a government operated paradise. Furthermore, if you ask me, it is you and your kind who are the “anti-American zealots” because of they way you strive toward social regimentation, centralization of government power, and all the federal takeovers in corporate America. It is this kind of stuff - along with your non-thinking group mentality, that will finish bringing fascism to our shores.

I'm sorry John W I didn't understand that you are a libertarian. It explains your disconnect with reality. Anyone who lives in the libertarian fantasy world can't really be expected to analyze anything with any success.

Did it ever occur to you that those people may be leaving because of the economic melt down, a meltdown caused in large part by a lack of proper government regulation and oversite of the financial markets? You know, the type of regulations that liberatrian fantasists insist aren't needed at all? No, being a typical paranoid anti-government liberatarian, you assume it must be based on how the Federal Government has treated them. Tell me John W, are these people going back to countries with more libertarian policies, smaller government and lower taxes? Or are they returning to countries with strong central governments, universal healthcare and similar or higher tax burdens?

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Posted by: A Patriot | July 20, 2009 4:38 PM
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Ha! That’s a laugh. Reading YOUR claims that I am disconnected from reality, living in a fantasy world or unable to “analyze anything with any success” - is like hearing Howdy Doody accuse someone of being short, wooden-headed and hand manipulated. YOU are the one who took my comment about people leaving, twisted it about, and then attempted to portray me (in Your mind) as some sort of right-wing, gun-toting, anti-American secessionist zealot. And, what? Now you are blaming me for your total confusion? If I were you, I wouldn’t go about blowing my horn over my ability to analyze things “successfully.” You are obviously not the sharpest or brightest crayon in the box.
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And, no, a lot of these people are leaving specifically because of the screwed up U.S. immigration laws. It seems as though federal law makes it difficult for people here on long term work visas to bring over their families and significant others to live and work. I guess blood is thicker than health care to most people in the world. That’s why they would rather go back home to India and China (where taxes and health care systems are not notoriously better) than be separated from those they love. And, of course, as I mentioned before, many of the same people are now getting better job offers from home.
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However, this is not an exhaustive list of their reasons for leaving. I have personal friends who have decided to go back to Russia because they are sick of America’s brutal and base culture, the federal government’s irresponsibility over finances and monetary policy, and its role as warmonger. They are also dismayed over the horrible public education children receive, and the trouble the get from the State in trying to home-school their children.
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And, furthermore, you don’t know what you are talking about when you suggest that the financial “meltdown” was caused by lack of regulation. The basic cause of the meltdown was the unwarranted extension of credit by banks in the real estate market. Had that not occurred, the derivative paper based on those bad loans would not have gone “toxic” from the rise in individual defaults and foreclosures. In this regard, there were plenty of regulations that would have averted the disaster, or at least made it less disastrous, had they been followed. For starters, had banks been following FDIC regulations that prohibited real estate loans based entirely on the value of the real estate, rather than the ability of the borrower to repay, many of these so-called “John Doe” or “liar” loans would not and/or could not have been made. Also, the Federal Reserve Bank had regulatory power to rein in excesses among member banks. Not only was that power not used, the Fed actually exacerbated the situation by keeping its lending rates low for year after year. That created the moral hazard for banks to keep making risky real estate loans. Profit motive and risky profit means are what led banks into that dark night.
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Furthermore, I have seen a lot of people like you claim that the whole problem was a lack of regulation. But that’s simply an allegation. You cannot make a cause-and-effect case for how any single or combination of missing regulations could have made any difference given the other forces in the market at the time. I have challenged a lot of people here in the Swamp to make out that case. Few have tried but none have succeeded. That’s because the lack of more regulation as the cause of our trouble is a common myth that you are simply spewing without any foundation.
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You know, in a free market system (which we DO NOT have), a lot of the troublemakers would have been allowed to suffer the consequences of their bad business decisions, and their valuable assets would have been sold off to others who could make a good clean, profitable use from them. That would then serve as a warning to others to be more scrupulous and honest in their business dealings. However, this does not happen in our world of bureaucratic nonsense because bad businesses are propped up instead of being allowed to fail. Government subsidies to bad businesses - like Republicans and Democrats love to hand out - have only tended to prolong the inevitable market corrections. This is why the Great Depression lasted 10 years longer than it should have. And you think Libertarians have a corner on bad ideas. Go look in the mirror.