Obama's healthcare: Live from Town Hall

If IF IF IF anyone out there wants to know where these anti-health care "protestors" come from, check out Wendell Potter. Potter was head of communications for Cigna Ins in the 90's, and saw the techniques used then and being revived in the attempt to again defeat health care reform.

"In the season of the hot town hall, in which a number of angry Americans are shouting at members of Congress about healthcare reform"

Please don't pretend that you honestly believe these are truly "angry Americans". These are actors encouraged by the right-wing factions beholden to the insurance industry trying to create the appearance of far greater opposition to Obama's plan than there truly is.

Wake up people. This health care reform is all about more gov"t control. Just look at how they are going about this. Look at how they are throwing money around. Once they have control over your health care they can pick and choose who gets it and who doesn't. The gov't is getting way too big and into too much of our lives. Just watch your rights and freedoms continue to disappear. Just look how Palosi and Obama respond to anyone who dares to question their plan. Why do they think they know so much. They can't even tell you what their plan is. The only reason they want it done so quickly is so no one will have time to oppose it. Is that the kind of people we need leading this country?

It is SO funny to listen to the Democrats whine and moan and complain about the very same tactics they used against Bush and McCain and Palin now being used against them.

David, could you please tell the US how you would handle this crisis if you were in charge? We'd love to hear from you rather then just telling us how government is taking away our freedom. Please... the floor is all yours.

Wake up, people. This healthcare reform is all about Corporate Greed, masquerading as " dissenters ". Don't be fooled by the bullies and shouters!! They are being paid to disrupt our democracy. They are some cheap-minded mercenaries, willing to sell our democracy for a few dollars. Support President Obama's heathcare reform, it will save your lives and those of your loved ones.
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, BRING THDEM HOME, ALIVE AND WHOLE. NOW.

""I think the kinds of things scaring Americans are the reductions that he is proposing in coverage for Medicare,'' Sununu said - though the White House is not proposing any cuts in coverage."

Big surprise that the republicans are misrepresenting the facts, like "death panels" and such, they won't even admit when they're wrong because it would upset idiots who really want to believe such stupidity and vote for those who affirm ignorance.

To the " Audacity of the Dope": There weren't any Democrats allowed into the Bush&Cheney covens. Monsters only. When are you going to buy some new lines. Your present ones are meaningless, therefore, laughable. Don't be a dope, stay off the coke !!
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, BRING THEM HOME, ALIVE AND WHOLE. NOW.

How dumb is the lady in the photo witht the "I won't discuss my end of life options with anyone" sign?

Seriously, we all will discuss those options at some point. We can't pretend that those issues will not arise. Living wills, hospice, DNR orders, these are very important decisions, and they are also decsions that you need to discuss with your family and your doctor to ensure that your wishes guide the end of your life. Not discussing it won't make you live forever.

Where were all of these protestors when Bush poured trillions of our (future) dollars into his failed war effort called Iraq? Where where they?

Gotta love the signs in the top photo of the discontent and misguided.

"I will not discuss my end of life options with anyone." Probably because she's set out to win the Darwin awards.

"...No government healthcare." Let's take away her Medicare.

This should give everyone pause:

http://www.politickerny.com/4848/senate-compromise-dean-democrats-betrayal

Obama is a LIAR, plain and simple.

I couldn't help but notice the contrast in the crowd photos attached to this story - supporters are younger and a multi-racial group, while the opponents are older and Caucasian, much like the crowds in each candidate's camp on the eve of the last election.

American workers who have employer-provided health care benefits can kiss them good-bye under Obama's plan.

Why would any employer continue to pay his or her employees' health care premiums when the government will offer insurance?

Employer-provided health care benefits will be a thing of the past in Obama's new "socialized America."

Say, "NO!" to Obama's health care plans!

There is a tremendous difference between getting enraged at the myriad of illegal, immoral and flat-out deadly actions of the previous administration and what the current one is trying to achieve.

David, are you telling us that the Corporate Insurance companies DO NOT regulate our healthcare???? What do you think HMO's are? Why are you required to get a conituation of coverage certificate when you change jobs??? Why does every insurance policy have a cap on coverage???
Answer those questions, please.

People are frightened and angry. Frightened because they don't know what is in the bill and angry because Obama and his party can't or won't explain it to them. There may be a few professional protestors out there but if they think they're all ringers let them wait for re-election and see who doesn't get voted back in.

Gus - I've been working for 20 years - 5 different companies, never had an issue with my health insurance. I doubt that I am the exception.

Let me ask this: If the current system is soooo screwed up, as you all claim, then why is the President saying that my coverage won't be affected? You can't fundamentally change (which is what the Prez and Congress are doing) how these companies do business without affecting everything. The reality is that things won't stay the same. If your for a government sponsored healthcare, Canada would be more than willing to take your taxes. I pay enough in taxes.

Don - If the Democrats were really interested in helping people, why do we still have the same segment of the population poor. I'm tired of people like you who suggest that the Democrats have some altruistic agenda, they don't. But of course your rose colored glasses don't let you see that absolute power corrupts absolutely.

What we have here is a salesman selling a product that doesn't exist. Where are the details, where are the numbers.

The Dems need to start parking a Black Helicopter and setting up ACORN and FEMA information booths outside of their healthcare townhall meetings from now on.

The Corporate Sponsored Teabagger goons would crap their pants in fear.

I believe most of us out here realize that the present Health Care System needs reform. But the Obama and Democratic Plan by intention or not is going to led to Socialized Medicine in this country. Private Insurance Companies, the ones still offering Health Insurance for most are not in that market anymore (this includes Met, Prudential, NY Life, John Hancock to name a few), will never be able to compete against a Government Plan. Small businesses will force their employees to opt out for the Government Plan. That program will grow tremendously and it will cost the Federal Government trillions of dollars. Where is the money going to come from for this program? You do not have to be a rocket scientist to figure out it will come from much higher taxes. And the Middle Class will be stuck playing the majority of those new taxes. Health reform is much too important of an issue to play political games with. Both sides need to sit down and work out a good plan that works. But this will never happen if the present strategy of Obama, Pelosi and their devout followers that it is are entire plan or no plan at all. There has to be some serious talks and some give and take if there will be a good bi-partisan plan. The current plan is a secret end around way to achieve Socialist Medicine.

The right wing media (Faux News, Rush etc) and right wing lunatic fringe astroturf groups are spreading the health insurance industry's script, reporting things as "news" when they are scare tactics and lies. Pretty much everyone is aware of it now. The teabaggers phony fake outrage gig has been exposed pretty well now, they're not convincing anyone of anything other than the fact that they're a bunch of toothless morons.

I mean, how can a rational adult believe that congress would write a bill that would demand a parent kill their son/daughter who is sick with a serious illness, or one that would kill old people? Ha Ha Ha!

I mean, can they really believe this? I don't think so, this is irrational fear taking over any rational thought.

What's left of the Republican base are people who would would follow Rush or Beck off a cliff if it was demanded of them by their Repub overlords. They're not exactly free thinkers, they're people (dittoheads) who blindly follow their right wing authoritarian leaders because their personality demands it.

Thankfully they are a minority, even if they are loud, obnoxious and profoundly stupid.

These right wing wackos are nothing but postitutes being paid or eged on by special interest groups who have made millions, who want to continue making gross amount of money cheating the America public..And what makes my blood boil is that the sheer ignorance of these people. They couldn't have more than a 5th grade education, oops!, I meant no schooling at all!

It's been obvious that the president had lost control of the health care debate and the right-wing mobs had filled the void. Obama has spent a lot of time on simple education of his reform plans and the various bills in Congress, so the wild rumors should, thankfully, begin to dissipate.

http://www.political-buzz.com/

Kevin,

If it keeps up like it's going, in 5 years no employer will be able to afford to offer health care benefits.

1. There will be rationing of the "End of Life" care.
2. There is an Affirmative Action plan written into the bill for those entering the Medical Profession. (Washington Post)
3. Union Health Care will sign on to the
Government plan, it will be cheaper.
4. Your current Health Care Plan will collapse with loss of members.

Being laid off and losing health care really opened my eyes. The system is broken and we should be talking about the best solutions, not spreading fear and false scary ideas.

IMHO - the Canadians and British would have fixed their systems by now if theirs were so bad. It tells me that their systems are not so bad.

These Corporate Sponsored Teabagger Thugs who are being bussed in to purposely disrupt things, are taking away the opportunity for average Americans to discuss healthcare at townhalls with their law makers.

If Republicans actually had anything to contribute to the healthcare discussion they wouldn't have to hire teabagger thugs to perfom their fake outrage performance art all over the country.

Stephen Colbert EXPOSES the fake Wingnut "protesters" for what they are - low IQ Teabagger stooges doing the dirty work for the Big Healthcare Insurance Lobby.
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http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/240728/august-04-2009/the-word---hippie-replacement

Posted by: Kevin | August 11, 2009 1:32 PM

I certainly hope Obama's plan ends company subsidized plans. It will actually create a better and cheaper free market regarding health insurance.

If health care was affordable enough so individuals and families could choose between the thousands of health care plans available in the marketplace (plus the "public" option), instead of being at the mercy of the 2 or 3 options available through your employer, wouldn't that be a good thing?

And businesses would benefit, because it would free up money they had been using to subsidize those plans. Perhaps allowing them to hire more personell and making a positive impact on the unemployment rate.

I work for a big corporation, about 40,000 employees. So let's do the math. I pay approx $100 a month for my health insurance and the company subsidizes about half the actual cost. So let's just say their average cost is $100 per month, per employee.

If they didn't have to subsidize plans, they would save 4 MILLION DOLLARS A MONTH!!! 48 million a year. If they spent that on personell. That is 1000 more people working at an average annual salary of $48,000.

Ken,

I'm sure you realize that your employer sponsored healthcare is not free or cheap. Because of the huge increase in costs for healthcare, your employer has required more of your income to support the plan. My whole company received a decrease in wages last year because of the increased insurance cost. We received a higher premium cost than the overall yearly raise. Employers also are at a disadvantage with competitors that do not pay for healthcare. Chinese companies can undercut our companies because they do not have employer sponsored healthcare. Something must be done to resolve the long term problem. It is to bad that this issue has been politicized by both parties. What I suspect will happen is that we do not see any type of reform. Healthcare cost increases will eventually soak up a good percentage of your wages and most American’s lifestyles will be adversely affected.

What the Hey! Senator Spector is sure having a difficult time in transition! The right wing nuts that elected him were all at his town hall meeting giving him both barrels, probably because he switched to becoming a democrat rather than health care issues! Mostly ranting! REMEMBER, THE REPUBLICANS NEVER DO ANYTHING FOR THIS COUNTRY, THEY ONLY DO THINGS TO THIS COUNTRY. whiteagle38

1. Health care will be rationed to the aged.
2. There is Affirmative Action written into the bill for all who wish to enter the Medical profession.
3. The Unions will join the Nation Health care Option. (it will be cheaper)
4. You Health Care Insurance company will be forced out of business because of the of cheaper cost of National Health Care.

Top Nine BIG Lies about Health Care Reform from the Big Health Insurance Lobby and their Repuglican puppets - and One Truth

The Lies:

1) The United States has the BEST healthcare system in the world!

No, it doesn’t. In fact, for the amount of money we spend, we have one of the WORST.

We rank 37th by the World Health Organization in terms of Health system performance. Countries that out perform us include every single Western European nation (France, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, Belgium, Canada, United Kingdom, Italy etc...), Middle Eastern countries (Saudi Arabia, UAE, and Israel), Latin American countries (our ‘poor’ neighbors to the South, Columbia, Chile, and Costa Rica) and even a few African countries. We just barely beat Slovenia and Cuba.

2) The current Healthcare bill will mandate euthanasia.

No, it doesn’t and it won’t. There is nothing in any health care reform bill before Congress that would require people to "decide how they wish to die." Yet Conservative talking points from activists and legislators, including Sarah Palin, have lied and suggested otherwise.

Section 1233 of the House bill would allow Medicare for the first time to cover patient-doctor consultations about end-of-life planning, including discussions about drawing up a living will or planning hospice treatment. Something anyone who is in their later years would naturally be interested in. Patients would, of course, seek out such advice on their own -- they would not be required to. The provision would limit Medicare coverage to one consultation every five years.

3) With healthcare reform, Americans will lose their private insurance.

No, they won’t. The bill does not force private insurers out of business or force people onto the public plan.

The CBO, in fact, estimates the House bill would result in a net increase of 3 million Americans with employer-provided care.

In truth, it would be a GOOD thing if private insurers did go out of business, because their private profit is predicated on a diseased and sickened America trapped into going to their outrageously expensive ‘resources’ for care (the ultimate captive market), but, unfortunately, that is not what is in the bill. Not even close.

4) The Health Care Legislation Mandates Taxpayer Dollars Pay for Abortions

No, it doesn’t. In fact, the House Energy and Commerce Committee adopted an amendment, proposed by Rep. Lois Capps (D-Calif.), that would prohibit taxpayer dollars from funding abortions.

"Private health care providers are free to cover abortion, but not with federal funds," -- U.S. News and World Report.

5) Americans Don't Want a Government-Run Health Care Plan

Yes, they do. Republicans have consistently berated the proposal for a government-sponsored health insurance plan, or "public option," as unpopular.

But, in fact, a CBS/ New York Times poll from late July shows that, even though doubts have grown in recent months about Mr. Obama's health care proposals, 66 percent of Americans still want the government to provide a health insurance plan like Medicare to compete with private health insurers.

6) Healthcare will be rationed with a health care reform.

Healthcare will not be rationed. One of the misleading buzzwords in the health care debate is "rationing" -- the idea that patients will have limited treatment options if the government becomes more involved in health care delivery.

In fact, while a public plan would not be able to cover all procedures, private insurance plans do not either. The difference is, actual health needs will determine the priority on who gets care, not someone’s ability to pay. If you have the money, of course, you can always pay extra and get your nose job or breast implant done privately, pronto, rather than waiting behind the long line of critical care and cancer patients (for example) who will have priority in a public system.

7) Health care reform is not urgent. We should take more time to study matters.

Urgency is in the eye of the beholder. Close to 50 million Americans currently have NO health insurance, which means something as simple as an auto accident could bankrupt them. During the span of Congress' three-week vacation this August, 43,250 people will lose their health insurance coverage, 53,507 people will file for bankruptcy because they can't pay their medical bills, and 1,265 people will die because they lack coverage.

8) The Blue Dogs are honestly interested in cutting government costs in Health Care Reform

No, they aren’t. Our so called ‘Blue dogs’, those self described fiscally conservative Democrats are in the back pockets of the drug and health insurance companies. Follow the money. When Blue Dog Democrats negotiated a compromise with Democratic leadership over certain elements of health care reform, they required the government-sponsored health insurance option that would be created to negotiate its own payment rates, rather than using Medicare payment rates, which will dramatically increase the costs to the American taxpayer. They also refused to allow cheaper drugs from Canada to compete with US firms.

According to a CBO preliminary analysis, the cost of those two changes would almost completely offset the $100 billion achieved in savings elsewhere. It’s not about being fiscally conservative, it’s about helping the insurance companies and drug companies maintain their profit thresholds—at the expense of America’s health.

9) Health care reform will cost us nearly One Trillion dollars!

No, it won’t. First of all, that's not a trillion every year, as most people assume -- it's a trillion over 10 years, which is the way that people in Washington talk about federal budgets. On an annual basis, that translates to about $140 billion, when things are up and running.
Even that, however, grossly overstates the net cost to the government of providing universal coverage. Other parts of the reform plan would result in offsetting savings for Medicare: reductions in unnecessary subsidies to private insurers, in annual increases in payments rates for doctors and in payments to hospitals for providing free care to the uninsured. The net increase in government spending for health care would likely be about $100 billion a year, a one-time increase equal to less than 1 percent of a national income that grows at an average rate of 2.5 percent every year.

* And now, a simple TRUTH: Selling American’s health for profit is a killer system

It kills the average American, while reaping huge profits for the privileged few. Why do we pay the MOST of any country on Healthcare cost and reap such few benefits, barely able to keep ahead of Cuba which pays less than 1/100th of what we pay per capita? Because Shareholder and CEO profits trump access to quality health care. The U.S. averages twice as much spending on health care with worse outcomes than any other industrialized nation on Earth. Where does the money go? Into the drug companies and health insurance industry pockets, that’s where. Commercial health insurance is responsible for 20 to 30% of health care dollars siphoned to excessive administrative costs, lobbying, marketing, CEO salaries and profit-taking. $1.4 billion stock options to former UnitedHealth CEO William McGuire, for example; another $30 billion went to after-tax health insurance profits, plus $32 billion insurance underwriting and marketing costs.

All that money could have cured thousands if not millions of Americans. Instead, it went to health care and drug company CEOs who have spent lavishly on Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats to ensure that meaningful healthcare reform does not happen in this country. That money is spent in hopes that you will continue to believe the 9 big lies that are currently be propounded by their lobbyists and fellow travelers and in hopes that you ignore this single truth: They don’t care about your health, they care about their wealth.

You know the hired Teabagger thugs/Opponents of health-care reform for poor and middle-class Americans -- which obviously includes nearly every talking head who appears on Faux News -- are getting desperate when they start trying to scare elderly people by suggesting that President Obama's health-care plans will mean euthanization for old folks when they get hurt.

That's what the lunatic fringe crew at Faux & Friends on Monday morning did, led by "Faux News legal analyst" Peter Johnson Jr., and aided and abetted by Brian Kilmeade and Gretchen Carlson.
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http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2009/07/fox-friends-crew-frighten-elderly.html

> 44,230 more people are losing health coverage each week.

> 191,670 more people are losing health coverage each month.

> 2.3 million more people are losing health coverage each year

Republicans know that a successful health care reform that achieves universal coverage will bury them electorally for a generation, that's what has them Foaming at the Mouth (see the nutjob above), they could care less if people die because they can't afford healthcare.

Health Insurers and their Lobbyists and Big Pharma know that a powerful public option and a Medicare bargaining for prices will kick them off the gravy train permanently. Republicans and Big Insurance Company propagandists know their scare tactics aren't nearly as scary as reality is for the large majority of Americans.

Republican Congressman who oppose universal health insurance should immediately relinquish their federal health insurance. After all, these members of Congress have long enjoyed taxpayer-subsidized health insurance, a privilege that they apparently believe tens of millions of working, uninsured Americans and their families don't deserve.

If Republicans don't think being uninsured is a big deal, then they should go right ahead and try it out. And if they really believe a public plan is such a bad option, maybe they can persuade their parents to give up Medicare too.

We all remember the commercials that were made by Republicans and their pals at the Big Insurance Industry to trick Americans into thinking that health care reform would hurt average working families. We now see what has happened to the health-care system. CEOs rake in the big bucks from the huge profits they take in as health-insurance costs have skyrocketed.

FierceHealthcare reports the following top 10 CEO salaries for 2008:
------------------------------------------------------
* Ron Williams - Aetna - Total Compensation: $24,300,112.
* H. Edward Hanway - CIGNA - Total Compensation: $12,236,740.
* Angela Braly - WellPoint - Total Compensation: $9,844,212.
* Dale Wolf - Coventry Health Care - Total Compensation: $9,047,469.
* Michael Neidorff - Centene - Total Compensation: $8,774,483.
* James Carlson - AMERIGROUP - Total Compensation: $5,292,546.
* Michael McCallister - Humana - Total Compensation: $4,764,309.
* Jay Gellert - Health Net - Total Compensation: $4,425,355.
* Richard Barasch - Universal American - Total Compensation: $3,503,702.
* Stephen Hemsley - UnitedHealth Group - Total Compensation: $3,241,042.

My rates go up and coverage goes down every time I turn around. And then they just decide not to cover certain medications without an explanation. Even scumbag criminals are resurfacing, like Big Healthcare Insurance Lobbyists like Rick Scott, to try and con America for a second time.
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http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/dont-let-third-way-ben-nelsons-or-repub

The insurance lobby along with Fox Nuts like Hannity, Beck, O'Reilly, and of course nut cases like Rush and Sarah (are last names really necessary?)are behind these so called Town Hall meetings. Too bad they aren't interested in discussion, and are more interested in disruption. Typical GOP...

All I hear from the health care reform opponents is: me, me, me, me, me
Please grow up people if other advance countries can do it I am sure we can also.

According to the new administration the current healthcare is breaking this country and denying many any hope of coverage. Obama states that this is unsatisfactory and must be fixed! Why then would Obama state that you can keep your current healthcare if you want to? Doesn't that go against the very arguments for reform? Also, why isn't every member of congress declaring that they will disolve their present healthcare program in favor of this socialist package for themselves and their families? Shouldn't that be screaming volumes to those in favor of this 'reform' bill.

Raise your hand if you've seen a single "person of color" among those who protest health care reform.

Ditto re: teabaggers/tax protesters.

Double-ditto re: birthers.

Folks, you can see from their idiotic positions on the merits (e.g., the lady with the who will not discuss her end of life care with "anyone," presumably including her doctors and spouse) that it's not about substance.

It's about not liking a black guy in the White House.

Are all Health Care Reform opponents racist? Certainly not.

Are all racists Health Care Reform opponents? .

The comments here crack me up... talking points from either side! I would love to see a fact check of everything each side is saying. Don't get me wrong, I understand that many people don't like the way things are now... but the grass isn't always greener on the other side. Why don't we talk about this more and find out the real facts rather than rush through a bill without discussion.

One point from someone trying to look at the debate rationally... why would people take a Saturday afternoon off in the middle of the summer to talk to a politician unless they were truly worried about the impact that issue will have on their lives? BTW, I've noticed that people from both sides seem to be showing up at these things.

BTW, Those who think the debate is some sort of conspiracy are sounding like 9-11 truther's! (no offense to the truthers!) Seriously? you think that thousands of people throughout the country are going to their congressional representative's office because they're paid off by some corporation? I guess those anti war protesters were paid off by Saddam Husein! LOL give me a break!

Has anyone actually stopped to ask Dear Leader what exactly his qualifications are to take over the fifth of the economy that is Health Care? He worked, if you can call it that, as a "community organizer" in other words doing exactly what he claims The Big Bad Conservatives are doing to him, and had a part-time job as a US Senator for 56 days. He has never worked in Health Care, in insurance, or even in national government. He is clueless other than knowing how to manipulate the very stupid. Look at his "supporters"... I watched a special on Jim Jones, the religious leader who originated the Kool-Aid commitment. Honestly, that is what Obomites remind me off. Glassy-eyed, farm-animalish, and overwhelmingly minorities who wouldn't know a job from another government handout. This "president" (not mine, that requires a birth certificate) is toast.

Nice to see all the left wing nut jobs here at the new lib paper for Chicago. You guys are nothing more than lemmings. You follow blindly the same people that refuse to even read a bill before pronouncing it a cure. You guys are so dumb, it's incredible.

What a bunch of kabuki theater. The democrats pack the hall with supporters and then have bloggers with names such as "republicans hate blue collar workers" ranting and foaming at the mouth. This is a sham and a joke. Those of us who have actually read the bill know that Obama said a whole lot of nothing AGAIN today and that this bill consists of nothing more than a gigantic government power grab that will massively increase Obama's already gargantuan deficits. Maybe, just maybe the reporters will stop following him around like loyal little puppies and ask him some tough questions. This Jimmy Carter II presidency is even more bad comedy.

Wow, what a shock.... it appears that this board was taken over by organized leftwing zealots puking out the obomite party line, talking point by point, and complaining about people they are assume are organized rightwing zealots. Laughable. You liberals are not a political party, you are a criminal organization, kill or be killed, win at any cost, destroy and burn... you are disgusting.

Obama said at the town hall today in N.H. that his plan would give Americans the same choices as Congress!

Does he have no shame?

George A

Putting aside what the program will or won't do, there is the proposed cost that is undeniable. When the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) says that the estimates by congress are off by huge factors this is a non starter.

To add a new public obligation when existing public obligations are underfunded and getting worse is dangerous.

If Obama wants to be a hero he should tackle Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid and the VA. Fix these broken social programs / promises to the citizens first and then we can talk.

Ken, I've have been our company's health insurance coordinator for over 6 years. We go out and bid every year. Everyone has seen premium rates go up an average of 12-15% each year. Not just our company - how do I know that? The brokers all tell me that freely. Have your premiums gone down Ken??? Have your co-pays and out of pockets gone up????

The argument should focus on whether we want health care reform (what we will or will not be able to receive in care), or reform in how to pay for the care received. There first must be some consensus of which we want, then proceed to take care of that issue in the fairest and least costly way to the taxpayers. If we raise taxes to pay for it, let's make sure the plan is worth it. But don't just ram it down our throats!

Posted by: John A | August 11, 2009 3:52 PM

John A- exec pay is a non factor in this issue...

Take the compensaton numbers you have quoted- mutiply them by 10 to provide some long term view and then - for fun -bump it up by 30 % for COLA and you still dont account for even 1% of the cost of Obamacare-

All this to take apart a system that 80% of us think is fine, and then ironically still not have everyone covered...

Class warfare won't work here...

If you want to really look at a proffession benefitting monetarily from the health care system we have now- why not look at trial lawyers? Guarantee they are a much bigger net contributor to cost and expense than executives at insurance firms...

If you will look at the 2 pictures on this page you will note that the professionally printed posters are pro health care and the anti Obama plan posters are hand lettered.

Who are the Sponsored Teabagger Thugs? Clearly the Obama supporters.

Don doesn't have "rose colored glasses". He's just doing what his employer (the DNC) tells him to do. Googe "Don Fitzgerald IL" and see how many political discussions and blogs turn up in your search.

I think all of you have proven that there are ignorant, hysterical folks on both sides of this issue. Reading this is like viewing a car wreck - It is horrible, but I can't seem to tear myself away.

grannydoc - who is to say that your "facts" are correct? Just because you wrote them?

This is not just a Republican / Democrat issue. I am an independent and I happen not to be in favor of THIS plan. I also find it humorous that you attack other Democrats (Bluedogs) because they don't agree with you.

It is jokers like you and the Republican attack dogs that make party affiliation so undesirable.

Republican Congressman who oppose universal health insurance should immediately relinquish their federal health insurance. After all, these members of Congress have long enjoyed taxpayer-subsidized health insurance, a privilege that they apparently believe tens of millions of working, uninsured Americans and their families don't deserve.

If Republicans don't think being uninsured is a big deal, then they should go right ahead and try it out. And if they really believe a public plan is such a bad option, maybe they can persuade their parents to give up Medicare too.

Posted by: HulkSMASH! | August 11, 2009 3:41 PM

Wow - way to think that through sparky. So because they reject a plan, which nobody has read, that will add another $1.5 trillion in unfunded liabilities- and comes with no clear plan on paying for it they should forego health insurance?
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Woudn't it make more sense to expect congress people supporting this nonsense to be required to being covered by it ...instead, your DEM knuckleheaded committe chairmen won't even allow a vote on the amendment..

And people wonder why they get yelled at in townhall meetings?

http://www.redstate.com/jeff_emanuel/2009/07/31/democrats-reject-two-measures-to-create-parity-between-congress-health-coverage-and-the-publics/

How many more fedral employees will need to hired to manage health care.

The 'Department of Energy' was instituted on 8- 04-1977
TO LESSEN OUR DEPENDENCE ON FOREIGN OIL.
Hey, pretty efficient, huh?????

AND NOW IT'S 2009, 32 YEARS LATER ... AND THE BUDGET FOR THIS

NECESSARY DEPARTMENT IS AT $24.2 BILLION A YEAR

IT HAS
16,000 FEDERAL EMPLOYEES AND APPROXIMATELY
100,000 CONTRACT EMPLOYEES

AND LOOK AT THE JOB IT HAS DONE!

The government cannot run the Post Office, Social Security, or Medicade. If you want tos ee what happens once your healthcare is "free", look how Barry ran the clunkers program....broke in less than one week.

And why are we insuring illegals?

WAKE UP SHEEPLE!

101,000 Americans die UNNECESSARILY each year because of lack of access to basic medical care that they would get in most other industrialized nations.
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http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Content/Publications/In-the-Literature/2008/Jan/Measuring-the-Health-of-Nations--Updating-an-Earlier-Analysis.aspx

I keep asking my "Canada bashing" kool-aid drinking Wingnut friends to find me just ONE comprehensive poll in Canada showing that Canadians would swap their health care system, warts and all, for ours...Haven't seen any yet.

And believe me, if there were any polls favorable to the Republican cause of denying healthcare to everyone, the Republican minions would be linking to them all day long. Instead, all they have is a handfull of anecdotes that they get from Druggy Limbaugh and that clown Glenn Beck etc.

With the Republican smear-the-public-option campaign---designed by Wingnut mouth-breather Frank Luntz---in full swing, here's a handy, crystal-clear rebuttal you can print out and leave on windshields and utility poles (and even in emergency rooms!) across America:

5 THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT PRESIDENT OBAMA'S PUBLIC HEALTH INSURANCE OPTION

1. Choice, choice, choice. If the public health insurance option passes, Americans will be able to choose between their current insurance and a high-quality, government-run plan similar to Medicare. If you like your current care, you can keep it. If you don't—or don't have any—you can get the public insurance plan.

2. It will be high-quality coverage with a choice of doctors. Government-run plans have a track record of innovating to improve quality, because they're not just focused on short-term profits. And if you choose the public plan, you'll still get to choose your doctor and hospital.

3. We'll all save a bunch of money. The public health insurance option won't have to spend money on things like CEO bonuses, shareholder dividends, or excessive advertising, so it'll cost a lot less. Plus, the private plans will have to lower their rates and provide better value to compete, so people who keep their current insurance will save, too.

4. It will always be there for you and your family. A for-profit insurer can close, move out of the area, or just kick you off their insurance rolls. The public health insurance option will always be available to provide you with the health security you need.

5. And it's a key part of universal health care. No longer will sick people or folks in rural communities, or low-income Americans be forced to go without coverage. The public health insurance plan will be available and accessible to everyone. And for those struggling to make ends meet, the premiums will be subsidized by the government.

It might not hurt to give your senators a jingle and ask 'em which they embrace more: campaign contributions from the big insurance lobby and Frank Luntz's Republican propaganda, or historic legislation that will enhance their legacy and make them heroes among their constituents for improving the health and well-being of all Americans. Be patient---sadly, it could take some of 'em a while to decide.

To those who say that the "death panels" are a lie created by Republicans please read the Bill. At the age of 65 you have to meet every 5 yrs. to discuss your end of life plans and needs with a gov't rep.

What is wrong with you people who think the government has any right to know your private plans you make with your family??

Should you discuss and have to meet with them regarding your thoughts on parenthood etc.??? NO!

Not too far off to imagine that next since birthing or any other lifestyle or activity you may choose affects their costs, so they may want to control those aspects of your life as well.

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WaPo/ABC poll:

54% of Americans support a government run option paid for by taxes on the rich (the very same rich people whom the BushCo Republicans gave tax cuts to the last eight years while everyone else was left to drown in debt).
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/postpoll_072009.html

That's a damning statistic and indictment against any claim that the Republican party is a national party. They only act in the narrow interests of their own small, local electorate, never what's in the best interests of the national party.

And the interests of the national party and the interests of those rigid, ideologue, conservative Republicans are opposed to each other.

The only Republicans left are extremists in extremely Republican states (excepting perhaps Maine) and their extremely Republican, conservative electorate doesn't line up with the American electorate.

You libs are absolute putty in their hands.

How can you possibly be so enthralled with this Socialist that you do not see that he wants eventual gov't control of the system, ONE-SIXTH OF THE ENTIRE ECONOMY! They are so clearly starting with a smaller % of the people, most of whom don't have coverage because they either don't want it or are illegals, and they will then quickly make private carriers unable to compete.

The answer is TORT REFORM and neither side of the aisle wants it because they are all lawyers and it would help everybody...... except them.

WAKE THE HEALL UP, YOU ROBOTS! Socialized medicine sucks and will result in inferior care for you and for your children and your children's children. It took dummies to get him elected, many of you in the State-run Media, and his hurtful plan will only pass with the unwitting compliance of you same dummies.

Besides lousy healthcare virtually everyone's taxes will go way up to pay for crappy care. They claim that getting their CURRENT plan enacted will only require tax increases for the wealthy, but that's to cover just 30-40 million. What do you think will happen to taxes when TEN TIMES that number are in the system?

If this Health Bill passed in its present form will we have a Doctor and Nurse shortage, and will the quality of our current health care coverage go down? And with the vast majority of the public that will be enrolled in the Government Plan (Private Insurance Companies will NOT be able to compete against a subsidized Government Plan), what will be the cost to the U.S. Taxpayer? I will bet the family farm that the Middle Class will have to pick up of the huge cost for Socialized Medicine through large tax increases. Our elected officials, including the President, need to be more up from on this issue than they have been. We are not getting all the facts and truth from them.

Once again Obama does a lot of talking and very little substance. Did he explain health care in depth? NO! Did he explain anything? NO! All he's is doing is spreading fear by saying how badly we need this plan. Remember how he said if we didn't get that first stimulus package out asap we would bankrupt the nation? It's been 7 months and only 10% of the money has been handed out and the country is still solvent. DON'T LET HIM RUSH YOU INTO THIS. TAKE YOUR TIME AND GET IT RIGHT.

Is it so hard to believe that some people might be against or at least have reservations about this bill?
People that have serious health problems and have enjoyed good coverage would obviously be against it. They have worked their entire lives for this coverage and can only see their coverage diminish or even be denied service. If it is such a wonderful bill what harm would there be in slowing down and studying it.

Obama still hasn't explain how he's going to pay for it.

Heartburn- Medicare administrative cost 3%, Private Health Insurance administrative cost (including profit) 20%. The United States spends six times more per capita on the administration of the health care system than its peer Western European nations. Something to be proud of, eh?

http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

It's amazing the way the Republican party has been able to get the low and middle-income people in their base (mostly the South) to throw logic out the window and not only accept the GOP's BS talking points but to actually go out and protest against their own well-being i.e. healthcare, tax cuts for the rich etc.

The TeaBagger "parties" were the perfect example of this. The Republican oligarchy had working class dittoheads from their base, who are most likely barely living paycheck to paycheck, out protesting the rich getting a small tax increase and themselves getting a tax cut. And they're actually proud of themselves for doing this!

Here's some video of some of that "civil discourse" that Palin and the rest of the Repug mouthbreathers "aren't" encouraging.

Must-see video from Democratic Rep. Kathy Castor's recent speech at the Tampa, Florida town hall co-hosted by the SEIU and State Rep. Betty Reed:

If you know anybody who's got doubts about the true nature of the anti-health care wingnut goons trying to disrupt health care town halls, have them watch this video. Let them see for themselves the truly infantile behavior of these angry wingnuts. They aren't interested in dialogue, debate, or discussion. All they want to do is hear their own voices scream, shouting down anybody with whom they happen to disagree.

The full speech is about fifteen minutes long. You can watch it here. The wingnut goons were trying to shout Castor down for almost the entire speech, and for at least five minutes of it, they made her nearly impossible to hear.
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http://www.dailykostv.com/w/002029/
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More thuggery from the Corporate Sponsored anti-healthcare Repug Teabagging Goons.....

BIG HEALTH INSURANCE LOBBY/CORPORATE SPONSORED REPUBLICAN TEA-BAGGER THUGS - THREATEN THE LIFE OF A DEM CONGRESSMAN OVER HEALTHCARE BILL:
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http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/dem-congressmans-office-his-life-has-been-threatened-over-health-care-bill.php?ref=fpblg
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This has all been very funny. Now bring on the real president.

zermatt, grannydoc's entire post is a copy & paste job from the DailyKos website, which is hardly a source for accurate and unbiased information. The part posted here is a "flyer" which will probably be making the rounds on all websites that have discussions on healthcare.

The link is dated (Aug 9, 2009) is located here:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/8/9/764388/-Health-Care,-Confederates,-Water-Melon,-Tea-Baggers-and-the-HCA

It's amazing to see how many postings are exactly the same, when you frequent many of the top blogs on the Internet. Google search the last sentence in a few weeks and see how many more hits you get.

The truly shocking moment was his gaffe when he was trying to explain how a "government option" wouldn't put private insurers out of business and said "UPS and FedEx are doing fine, it's the POST OFFICE that's always in trouble." Does he REALLY want to have a government-subsidized, poor and inefficient health plan that doesn't work - like the post office! - for everyone that can't afford insurance? And for the umpteenth time HOW IS STARTING A HUGE, COSTLY BUREAUCRACY GOVERNMENT HEALTHCARE "OPTION" GOING TO BRING DOWN THE DEFICIT? The CBO, the GAO, economists and anyone with a clue knows that it will cause the deficit to balloon out of control.

The government cannot run the Post Office, Social Security, or Medicade. If you want tos ee what happens once your healthcare is "free", look how Barry ran the clunkers program....broke in less than one week.

And why are we insuring illegals?

WAKE UP SHEEPLE!

Posted by: BDD | August 11, 2009 4:55 PM

Is this The Onion? You've identified three government programs/functions that work perfectly well and that no elected representative -- none --would ever advocate getting rid of. Surely you're a Democratic plant, trying to make the Just Say No crowd look even dumber than they really are.

BTW: "Illegals" are human beings. I'll make it easier for you to accept: The the "illegals" are all former fetuses.

There’s no evidence whatsoever to suggest that the Post Office’s existence in the package-delivery marketplace has had the effect of forcing FedEx and UPS to improve their service or to become more competitive. Both did a better job before the Post Office started delivering parcels and still do a better job than the USPS.

The moment Obama started to speak, the crowd started chanting "Yes we can". Obviously not a town hall meeting but a campaign stop.
Typical, put on a false face of democracy while pushing the lockstep far left Democrat
agenda. It makes US look like Hugo Chavez's Venezuela.

First of all, good point on the protestor signs. You can clearly see that many of the pro health care signs appear to have been distributed out, I.E, not constructed by the protester themself. There was actually a craiglist ad somewhere in CALI. about a month ago (drugde pointed this out) that was paying people 12 dollars an hour to promote health care. This appears to be the fruition of one of those such campaigns.

Also, why is anyone afraid to stand up for the individual? I could care less if someone who has failed to make the right decisions their entire life has trouble finding or affording health care. Ever heard the expression that "you lie in the bed you make"? If someone wants to help you they will, but this is America, you cannot force me to pay your way, no sir, no ma'am.

Someone mentioned that you don't see any blacks holding signs on the anti side. Perhaps the reason is that most blacks in this country have been turned into slaves by the Democrat party.. they've been convinced that they can't do anything on there own. It's quite pathetic to see a person who lacks the power to see the potential and ability that lies before them WITHOUT the government programs.

BTW, how can you ignore the south side of Chicago. Completely controlled by Democrats who have been telling their constituents for eons that they are victims.. concocting programs for years to supposedly make things "fair", yet nothing has changed, perhaps things are even worse.. So it begs the question.. where are the results? If these programs and form of gov't work, why is the south side of Chicago still in the condition that it is in?

Check out The Obama Deception

http://www.obamadeception.net/

The healthcare reform in Obama's mind is for the 40 million Americns who don't have health insurance and are mainly core voters of Obama.
Basically slick Obama politics.

"To those who say that the "death panels" are a lie created by Republicans please read the Bill. At the age of 65 you have to meet every 5 yrs. to discuss your end of life plans and needs with a gov't rep."

No, Not true. I've read the bill. What it says is that after the age of 65, the plan will pay for you to have an appointment with your doctor to discuss end of life issues every 5 years, or if you have a major health issue, if you so choose. It's is an option open to you. It is not mandatory, nor are you meeting with a representative of the government. You are meeting with your doctor, if you want to, and the plan will pay for the office visit. That's it. Nothing scary.

"I have not said that I'm a single-payer supporter.... I'm not promoting a single-payer plan,'' Obama said,

Today BO lied through his teeth about single payer plans.

A must see youtube clip in his own words.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-_SGGcJu_c

Has anyone criticizing the bill actually read it? I doubt it. If you go to ten different news sites and read the comments about the bills, those remarks are nearly all the same. It seems to me that the protesters read the talking points of the organizing group and simply spew them back as loudly as possible. I'm not sure when screaming nonsensical words in public became a "discussion" but in my world a discussion requires at least two rational sides. Those standing and screaming might think they are making a point, but all they are doing is becoming the butt of the joke.

Obama is on video saying he wants a single payer system and acknowledged it would take time; so he's adopted a Trojan horse approach. If he sincerely is backing off the single payer system, then he should focus on an incremental approach that addresses his basic principles without a complete overhaul. A complete overhaul even by competent people would have a lot of breakage. Pelosi and Reid will turn it into a patronage system; the guy that decides which streets get plowed will be deciding who gets medical procedures.

I find it completely hilarious/appalling that these Wingnut Teabagger thugs on the right are actually trying to sell the idea that all physicians would condone a "death panel"?!?! That's what it would take. ALL physicians to just merrily go along with such an outrageous thing. What they don't realize is that physicians have been giving away their time and expertise for FREE for YEARS to thousands of people who had no insurance or couldn't afford to pay. These men and women, with few exceptions, are committed to saving human lives. ALL human lives. And most would walk away before allowing something so horrific.

Whenever I think the right-wing lunatic fringe can sink no lower, they just keep on surprising me. The main reason they cannot allow health care reform is because so many people would be thrilled with it that Republicans wouldn't be in power for a long, long time after it passed.

Wake up, Wingnut followers of people like Palin! Look around the world at other industrialized countries around the world who are passing us by economically and ask yourself if those with healthcare are being euthanized? QUIT LISTENING TO IDIOTS LIKE GLENN BECK, BOSS LIMBAUGH AND PALIN etc, STOP THE STUPID!! THINK FOR YOUSELF FOR ONCE IN YOUR LIFE!

Let's see here 83% of the population is satisfied with their health care and the Messiah says "Health care IS NOT WORKING".. How far out of touch is the teleprompter King????
How stupid does he think the public is? No doubt he is correct in the eyes of the something for nothing crowd who voted for him.

The Republican party is not only shrinking, it's having a very public mental meltdown.

(R)-John Cornyn thinks fact checking is pretext for domestic espionage. Which he's suddenly against. (R)-Chuck Grassley uses Ted Kennedy's medical condition as propaganda for his own false and nonsensical claims about "socialized medicine" killing old people -- and this is who Max Baucus is "negotiating" with to bring us his version of health care?!?!.

Rush Limbaugh pretends, out loud, to think Obama is like Hitler. Glenn Beck muses about poisoning Nancy Pelosi.

The Wingnut birthers are going strong, and the Wingnut teabaggers are trying to shut down healthcare reform by making town halls on the subject impossible.

Dick Morris and John Bolton agree: we should have left those two journalists to rot in North Korea, because Clinton going there to secure their release made the U.S. look weak, and now other countries will steal our lunch money at recess. And Lou Dobbs never met a conspiracy theory he didn't like, as long as it was about brown or black people, but after people got angry that he peddled false nonsense he says he's now reflexively going to oppose Obama on everything.

It's all so disgusting and pathetic that you just have to laugh at it. Between Cornyn, Grassley, Limbaugh and Beck, between Dobbs and Morris and Bolton, between birthers and "socialized" medicine but keep-your-hands-off-my-Medicare, the Wingnut stupid is overwhelming. It's become a tidal wave of Wingnut stupid. It's a giant Noah's Ark of Wingnut stupid, in which two examples of every kind of dumbarsery known to man have been loaded up to be set adrift on a sea of their own drool. It's the "Who Wants To Be A Millionaire" gameshow of stupid -- loud, with big flashing lights, and on every damn day of the week.

It's the result of Wingnuts drinking conservative bong water and eating the paint chips flaking off Bill Buckley's lead-encrusted casket.

I'd be afraid for the future of our country, but I know that if these goon Teabagging Wingnuts ever actually armed themselves and tried to take over they'd all have accidentally shot themselves in the groin within the first ten minutes. Then they'd all limp to D.C. to hold a Big Healthcare Industry Sponsored Astroturf rally demanding free government healthcare for crotch-related injuries.

Idiots, all of them...

Heartburn- Medicare administrative cost 3%, Private Health Insurance administrative cost (including profit) 20%. The United States spends six times more per capita on the administration of the health care system than its peer Western European nations. Something to be proud of, eh?

http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml

Posted by: Ricky | August 11, 2009 5:21 PM

Ricky- Medicare costs are subsidized by non- Medicare patients insurance.. and Medicare is broke... why would you want to use that business model at the same time throwing millions more in the government system..
Your cost of healthcare comparison is not a fair comparison - Most other countries benefit from the research and development costs that are embedded in the US systems - which our insurance providers reflect in rising premiums to us -prescription drugs, new technology and techniques are sold to other non-US markets at a much lower cost with much smaller margins because the costs of these products/technology only have a market because we are willing to pay for them- without this markets ability to buy new innovative things- they would likely never be developed....
A big part of the administration costs of our system are related to health care providers protecting themselves from being sued – ordering a battery of tests to CYA add an awful lot of cost to a system- Healthcare providers know they will be paid- and healthcare users don’t question this, because they pay a small part of the tests out of pocket (if at all)
And - anecdotally- how many people leave the US to get the health care they need- compared to the number of people who come here when the care they need is not available when they need it ( if at all)?
Where would you go if you had cancer, heart disease or a major trauma?
So - yes it is something to be proud of- to some degree; you get what you pay for here.

At a minimum, it is the best system available - it definitely can be improved... but tearing it all down to support an ideology that health care is an obligation of the federal government is nonsense

I'm afraid the government's healthcare plan will include pouring sodium silicate down my throat when I become clunker-aged...

The entire Republican party can absolutely make stuff up, no question about it, 100% lies, no factual basis whatsoever, outrageous, known false stuff about euthanasia and "death panels" and denying care to people that are no longer "productive", stuff that's right out of the most venomous propaganda playbooks around, weird-arsed, depraved, paranoid stuff that would be perfectly at home in a Henry Ford tract about the secret methods of the evil Jews or the like -- and not a damned news outlet on the planet is making a story out of the fact that these supposed leaders of their party are gleefully lying through their teeth about all of it, or that the "teabaggers" carrying these selfsame lies into public meetings aren't just angry Americans with a different point of view, but people spreading known, 100% damn-freaking-false-and-false-from-the-very-first-time-it-was-uttered crap, and intentionally doing it so loud that they hope nobody can possibly shout them down.

There's no "he-said, she-said" on a statement like "Obama's coming to murder my handicapped child." There's no damn panel of talking-head experts that need to be involved, there's no need to call on a lefty and a righty to have an honest to God televised freaking debate over where or not Obama is really going to go appoint a new government panel devoted to the task of murdering America's mentally handicapped kids. There's no Gigantic Public Calling to have the Wall Street Journal or some other Fail-in-a-fishwrap rag devote column space exploring how Americans may be "divided" on the probability of future government child-killing squads.

What. The. Hell? If outright, astonishing, venomous child-murder-related death propaganda by some of the most prominent figures of a nation's political-supposed-discourse is not big, come-on-and-get-your-damn-Pulitzer-already news, what the hell is? But no -- all we get from such luminaries as the big boys of CNN these days are public statements about how even their own damn pundits can lie their backsides off about whatever made-up disproven BS conspiracy crap they want, because that's just the way free speech is supposed to work, you little garbage commoners.

I sure as heck hope all these news outlets are being paid off or something, because I would hate to find out, ten years from now, that they really were ignoring the circuslike butchering of democracy out of star-spangled, crap-flinging, head-in-the-butt incompetence. They had better be on the take, and not really this damn unwilling to do their jobs just as a matter of dimwitted, crap-peddling laziness.
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http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/political-media/cnn-president-brushes-off-criticism-of-lou-dobbs-continued-floating-of-birther-theories/

Is that Mutt or Jeff? Does it really make any difference. The US Postal Service moves billions of mailed items yearly. I don't think the combined numbers USPS's competition comes anywhere close to those numbers and they certainly don't offer their services at the lower rates, that the USPS offers. Get real. Everyone knows the government does it better and cheaper. Of course, you Corporate mopes can't admit that, or you'd have to do some real work, for a change. Real healthcare now, not higher premiums for the the goon squads, to scare our elderly, our sick and our physically-challenged. You Bush&Cheney fringe sure turned out to be some real, honest Americans !!
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, BRING THEM HOME, ALIVE AND WHOLE. NOW.

If this board is any indication of how democrats debate then I am outta here. All you people do is call others names. The one wiht "Faux" news. So far left leaning CNN is okay but having Fox news on the right is not. That is what is wrong with you people. You are blind as a bat. You don't have the ability to look beyond your own noses but you sure seem to be able to accuse everyone else of anything that doesn't fit your mold. Claiming people are brought in to disrupt meetings!!! All you are doing is repeating what some left or right leaning news source told you. Does that make it true? Do you even have the ability to think for yourself and form your own opinions or do you have to have them force fed into your brains.
Do we need health care reform? You bet we do. The insurance companies have run rampant over all of us for years. Is the government run option the answer? Absolutely NOT. If the governemnt was so good at running anything, then why is medicare going to run out of money? And this was after placing a nearly 7% tax on all income to pay for it. The government has proven time and time again that anything it puts its greedy little hands on implodes. If you want true reform then regulate the problem, insurance companies and ambulance chasing lawyers.

quote:
What's the rush, Republicans are asking?

Sure, lets drag this out since the campaign of lies isn't working; we'll just let it die a natural death by neglect like we're accusing Obama of doing to our grannys. Just drag it out...
NO WAY !! America needs health care reform and medical care for the uninsured.
I am sick of these hypocrites and bigots ignoring the 47+ million of us who cannot afford health care or denied health care. How dare this vocal media pigs tell us that we do not matter. We matter and we voted for Obama because he promised heathcare reform.
The progressives need to start showing up at these townhall meetings and making their wishes known by contacted their elected representatives.
www.gov.us
The anti-choice healthcare birther bigots need to be put in their place.

More demagoguery without basis and despite the bill sent to the floor. Does this man ever hear anyone else above his own voice? What is so hard to understand about no new taxes? 2/3s of us now reject this bill as a turkey, but this man's hubris just plows ahead with no thought for us. Do you want to know where all the protesters have come from? Our homes, the streets and retirement communities. We welcome any group to join us.

For all those in favor of the government running healthcare, please name me a couple of government programs that are run well. They couldn't even manage handing out digital converter boxes for the analog-digital TV switch. I can only imagine how well they'll do at handing out hip replacements.

Thanks, but no thanks Mr. Obama.

Dear - "grannydoc"

Nice list; thanks!

Here's some more;
National Parks
Libraries
State Universities
roads and highways

I have just one question for all of those reform opponents. Do you really
believe the Health Insurance Companies are acting in your best inetrest? Simple Question, yes or no. No trying to shoot me down, no quoting facts true or not, just yes or no to my question. Im really interested.

Page 838 - the Federal Government can inspect your family, in your home, to make sure your children are "healthy".

Anyone who says this anger is fabricated WANTS the Federal Government in everyone's home.

Suppose I don't want to pay for this neat, inexpensive, national coverage and elect to remain uninsured. Do I still get to go to the emergency room for free?

When Obama says "You can keep your current coverage" he means in name only. As the premiums will surely go up to cover the freeloaders who take advantage of these programs. And of course with government influence the quality will quickly go out the window (just think about public schools) so that, too will lessen the value of yout coverage. And of course you're going to be paying higher taxes to cover all this spending.

But of course no one can predict the actual details because Obama doesn't want to give anyone a chance to actually read the bill or think about the ramifications of what he's proposing. That's why everything is Rush rush rush and get this bill passed before anyone knows what hit them.

Meanwhile if you speak out against it you have to watch your back because you go on the white house's black list for having an opinion that differs from the president's.

It's these kind of actions that get Obama branded as a socialist.

Republicans are right about healthcare in America. Who cares if some people don't have access to healthcare?!?!

We don't need to concern ourselves with that. Poor and Middle-Class people simply do not matter. Forget about them.

We should only be concerned about what is best for the wealthy business owner. If 15% of the population don't have health insurance it only makes things better for the wealthy old Republican white guys, that's a small price to pay. I'm sure Rush Limbaugh is with me in saying that if the number of uninsured went up to 30% or even 50% that simply is nothing any of us should be bothered by. It is, in fact probably a goal we pasty white Republican rich guys should be working toward. Why should your employer pay for you to have health insurance? The big business CEO's would do better if they didn't, and that's all that matters. I'm sure those guys, like me, have demanded that their employer terminate their health insurance coverage, for the good of the company. We must all join with them in our sacred goal: healthcare for the few doughy white rich guys, sacrifice for everyone else.

"There’s no evidence whatsoever to suggest that the Post Office’s existence in the package-delivery marketplace has had the effect of forcing FedEx and UPS to improve their service or to become more competitive. Both did a better job before the Post Office started delivering parcels and still do a better job than the USPS."

While we're on the subject, my father has worked for the post office for over 30 years.

Several years ago UPS and FedEx along with two or three other smaller carriers were complaining that they couldn't compete with the post office's rates on parcel post. Because of that the government set limits on how low the post office's prices could go for shipping. (talk about shooting yourself in the foot)

So over time the customer slowly switched to these other carriers. Meanwhile congress also passed a law that said the post office's current budget for safeguarding their pensions needed to change. Although there was no evidence for their structure ever being in jeopardy.

So now the post office is required to keep on hand a large enough cashflow to cover all of their pensions for the next ten years. Because of this their budget was almost cut in half and they had to cut jobs, which in turn cut quality and their business.

The moral of this story is that once the government gets involved with something it slowly turns to crap.
(see also, medicare, public schools, etc)

So if the government gets their hands on healthcare as a whole they will be able to line their pockets and slowly destroy that as well.

Just wait and see.

Didn't you love the young girl who asked the President about the "mean" signs? Didn't it just tug at your heartstrings. Wink, wink!

If Teleprompter was at all interested in Americans' opinions, he would have held a "town hall" for the majority of Americans who are NOT in favor of this ridiculous socialist program instead of giving lip service to a hand-picked audience.

All of those touting this great "free health care" are completely clueless. Someone was envious of the systems in the UK...do you realize that the UK health system is the 3rd largest employer in the world? That is just to cover a country that is 1/5 the size of the US. Ask yourself what will happen to the size of the federal government if we go down this dark road??? The federal government will become the single largest employer in the world and as soon as this president is done with cap and tax and the other socialist programs he wants there will be no private enterprase to pay for the cost of your "free" healthcare.

To Don Fitzgerald, IL:

Thank you for proving my point about the Democratic whining, moaning and complaining over protests against Obamacare as well as giving us a shining example of the Democrats' smear tactics of personal insults and old Bush-Cheney attacks when you cannot argue your point with facts.

Johnny Weak,
You're misrepresenting the position of UPS. Their beef with the USPS was that they were subsidizing their parcel post rates with revenue from their first class mail, for which they have a monopoly. UPS was simply asking that the playing field be leveled to force the USPS to price parcels so they were a money maker on their own (which they currently are not).
On the pension issue UPS, like many other large corporations, were severely underfunding their pension programs putting the whole program at risk for future retirees. If the economic debacle of 2008 proved anything, it's that corporations can't be trusted to police themselves.

RE: Bill Miller; your entry stating that the Dept. of Energy was born on Aug. 4th, 1977. Interesting, because Ronald Reagan said in 1983 that this nation didn't need an energy plan!! Now, isn't that a man with foresight!! He dismantled Carter's energy plan, why didn't he dismantle the department! REMEMBER THE REPUBLICANS NEVER DO ANYTHING FOR THIS COUNTRY, THEY ONLY DO THINGS TO THIS COUNTRY!! whiteagle38

Why do people insist on villifying profitable companies...do you realize that from those "evil profits" they pay taxes??? If you remove their profits then more of the tax burden falls on everyday people and what was sold to you as free is no being directly paid for by you! If you successfully bring down a company that pays $1B in taxes then 1,000,000 have to pay an extra $1,000 in taxes...it is simple math for those with higher than a third grade education. Fools!

Health Insurance Insiders Speak Out and Spill The Beans on Republicans and their Insurance Industry Sponsored Teabagger Trolls!

Wendell Potter, a career insider in the health insurance industry for many years, has turned hero and speaks out about the secret, deceptive and corrupt practices of the health insurance industry. Wendell Potter says, "I'm the former insurance industry insider now speaking out about how big for-profit insurers have hijacked our health care system and turned it into a giant ATM for Wall Street investors, and how the industry is using its massive wealth and influence to determine what is (and is not) included in the health care reform legislation members of Congress are now writing."

"What I saw happening over the past few years was a steady movement away from the concept of insurance and toward "individual responsibility," a term used a lot by insurers and their ideological allies. This is playing out as a continuous shifting of the financial burden of health care costs away from insurers and employers and onto the backs of individuals. As a result, more and more sick people are not going to the doctor or picking up their prescriptions because of costs. If they are unfortunate enough to become seriously ill or injured, many people enrolled in these plans find themselves on the hook for such high medical bills that they are losing their homes to foreclosure or being forced into bankruptcy".
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http://www.prwatch.org/node/8422

If a government health plan is so bad then we should end the VA care system and Medicare. Do any politicians have the balls to say we should toss our Veterans and elderly out on the street?

Those who feel that their health insurance plan is just fine have been fortunate, but have also probably not noticed the changes that have occurred over time. Most people have seen their premium cost double in the past 6 or 7 years, unless they have opted into a plan with much higher deductibles. Most likely, there have also been increases in copays and greater limitations on the types of drugs and procedures that are available (for example "formularies" that identify the drugs that an insurer will cover). The reasonable projection is that we can expect costs to double again by about 2016. That kind of price rise is going to either force employers to drop coverage, force employees into higher-deductible "catastrophic coverage" plans or further limit benefits. How much worse does it need to get before we all admit that the thing just isn't working, even for those of us fortunate enough to still have coverage?

Our health care system is disintegrating. Today, 46 million people have no health insurance and even more are underinsured with high deductibles and co-payments. At a time when 60 million people, including many with insurance, do not have access to a medical home, more than 18,000 Americans die every year from preventable illnesses because they do not get to the doctor when they should. This is six times the number who died at the tragedy of 9/11 - but this occurs every year.

In the midst of this horrendous lack of coverage, the U.S. spends far more per capita on health care than any other nation - and health care costs continue to soar. At $2.4 trillion dollars, and 18 percent of our GDP, the skyrocketing cost of health care in this country is unsustainable both from a personal and macro-economic perspective.

It always makes me laugh when I hear people say they want to preserve "insurance choice" in this country. What choice do you have when you work and are nominally "insured," but your insurance coverage doesn't pay for anything you need? Are you then going to have the ability to run out and purchase extra coverage on the wages you make? Well, I guess you have the "choice" to rob a bank or maybe win the lottery to pay for it, but that's about it.

Republicans and their rich oligarchy supporters (Healthcare CEO's and Lobbyists) will do anything to kill a good healthcare bill because they know people will like it and when that happens their electoral goose will be cooked for generations - if it's not already.

was sold to you as free is no being directly paid for by you! If you successfully bring down a company that pays $1B in taxes then 1,000,000 have to pay an extra $1,000 in taxes...it is simple math for those with higher than a third grade education. Fools!

Posted by: ChrisinAZ | August 11, 2009 7:54 PM
**********************************
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Slavery was a moneymaking business too, you moron.

The fact that the Healthcare Insurance Industry is a profit driven Wall Street business is exactly the problem. Health Insurance bean counters decide whether your worth it to be insured or not, if you're not they drop you and you die.

"My question for you,'' the man asked, "is why have you not used your bully pulpit to chastise the Congress for having two systems of health care, one for them and one for all of us?''

"You are absolutely right... they've got a pretty good deal,'' the president replied. "We want to make sure that you.... Are getting that same kind of option... you, just like a member of Congress can go and choose the plan that's right for you...
--------------------------------------
Why didn't Obama tell that man that he, all congress members and all federal workers have their own health care plan that allows them to choose from about 12 insurance providers and we subsidize from 70 to 75% of the monthly premiums. All of them are excluded from his plan. People should expect EVERYONE be in his plan -- no exceptions. I wish the man would have asked why he and the others are excluded.

I always find it humorous that people who support the policies and views of the party that is led by a former community organizer, claim that those of a different viewpoint must be following some organized group. Maybe because they are so devoid of independent thought they can't comprehend someone who actually can think for themselves.

It is crazy to see people yelling and screaming. A lot of Americans are really interested in educating themselves and these folks are just there to disrupt the discussions. Found a great poll on this:

http://www.polladium.com/poll.php?poll_id=141&location_id=1

Anyone who didn't watch the President live today at lunch, please try to catch a CSpan rebroadcast.

It was a virtuoso performance.

The Maxim Vengerov of politics.

About 40 were seated onstage behind the President and watching their faces, responding to his remarks, brought to mind that Norman Rockwell town meeting painting.

Of course, the whole audience was responding, but you could really study the facial expressions in the people seated behind the President.

If he were making a closing argument and they were the jury, they would have awarded him twice what he asked.

He was magic.

The meta text of this meeting today is:

Any Repuglican running against him has a very huge rock to push up a very steep hill.

Why is Obama staying away from whether or not he wants health care reform to treat illegal alians? It is interesting that Obama DID say that he wanted to address immigration reform AFTER health care reform. In my book, it must be stated, before health care is voted upon, if illegals will or will not receive American health care from the reform. Funny, now the politicians want to separate the issues--have a pure bill--and not vote for all kinds of crap in one hybred X 50 monster bill. Obama's ploy to separate the issues now is so full of BS and will prolly be the downfall of health care reform. There are not two sides to the health care reform debate. There are many sides--many splintered groups supporting political planks uncommon to the usual planks of their declaired party affiliation. Obama and Pelosi would do well to remember this.

This Obama Care can not be another power grab like the mortgage companies or the car manufactures this is for us! Big Brother just wants to care for you, womb to tomb or a little earlier. How can that be bad? Our great-great grandchildren will gladly pay for our health care through age 70. The political elite have to do what is best for us proletariats whether we like it or not… hard love… to line their pockets.
I am confused with what is happen in the 2009 United States of American. In ways it looks like some thing that happened in Russia, 1917. Then again, it reminds me a little of 1933 Germany. Yet it ring of 1950 China and 1959 Cuba. Maybe it is just uniquely American.

Your indulgence please!. This was not an off the cuff "Town Hall" meeting!. This was completely staged. That's a fact. Another fact is we need to provide for the less fortunate. But that does not require a complete overhaul of our medical system. What we do need is tort reform. Limit the size of the judgements, this would require both judges and juries to act responsibly.
Another way of bringing down the costs would be to standardize the medical forms or to computerize them. Calling each other names as Mr. Fitzgerald gets us nowhere.

Did BO get this question?

BO has stated that any individual that wants to be able to keep his/her current insurance, will be able to. He has also stated that it is the current system that is bankrupting our country.

So if the current system is bankrupting the country, why is he letting individuals keep their current insurance policies?

Republicans are right about healthcare in America. Who cares if some people don't have access to healthcare?!?!

We don't need to concern ourselves with that. Poor and Middle-Class people simply do not matter. Forget about them.

We should only be concerned about what is best for the wealthy business owner. If 15% of the population don't have health insurance it only makes things better for the wealthy old Republican white guys, that's a small price to pay. I'm sure Rush Limbaugh is with me in saying that if the number of uninsured went up to 30% or even 50% that simply is nothing any of us should be bothered by. It is, in fact probably a goal we pasty white Republican rich guys should be working toward. Why should your employer pay for you to have health insurance? The big business CEO's would do better if they didn't, and that's all that matters. I'm sure those guys, like me, have demanded that their employer terminate their health insurance coverage, for the good of the company. We must all join with them in our sacred goal: healthcare for the few doughy white rich guys, sacrifice for everyone else.

Posted by: Be a good little Republican - Sacrifice your life for a Health Insurance CEO | August 11, 2009 7:07 PM

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to the greedy fatcats with their obscene salaries, they're performing a public service by essentially " culling the herd "
and the boomers will take the biggest hit. No jobs, no house and no insurance, so shut up and die.
There is the real " death panel " mentality. America needs health care reform now,

If IF IF IF anyone out there wants to know where these anti-health care "protestors" come from, check out Wendell Potter. Potter was head of communications for Cigna Ins in the 90's, and saw the techniques used then and being revived in the attempt to again defeat health care reform.

Posted by: willow | August 11, 2009 12:20 PM

Well,Well,Well I am not in any ones camp but I am AGAINST Obama's health care and IF I see a protest against it, I go.. so guess it's NOT the INSURANCE companies but go ahead and pretend it is if it makes you feel better.. you probably THINK all the reps and senators along with the President ACTUALLY read the bill..Nice try but your not to be believed.. what an AIRHEAD

Extraordinary. Obama told a bold faced lie and no one corrected him. He said he was not for a single (government) payer system when there are two separate U-Tube videos out there in which he specifically says he IS for such a system. He thinks seniors are stupid and will believe that cuting the 500 billion dollars from MEDICARE will not result in rationing their health care. Obama denied the rumors about "death counselling". But, as long as the ghoulish Ezekiel Emmanuel remains involved in health care policy, fear of Euthanasia is not only understandable but probably justified. And the fact is that the House Bill does give doctor a financial incentive to steer seniors toward discussions of end of life care. And seniors who may be alone, confused and sick will often bow to what a Washington Post writer has called "the person in the white coat."

"I have not said that I'm a single payer supporter."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-bY92mcOdk

"Oops, er, wait a minute. The prompter should say that I have said that I'm a single payer supporter. Could we get prompter maintenance in here pronto?"

If you don't discuss your "end of life" wishes with anyone, you can be done in early also. I believe hospice did that to my mother when they gave her so much morphine that she went in just two days after they entered the picture. She was up walking around two days before that; then, when they entered the picture and started giving her drugs, one, two, three, she was gone, but I don't think she really had a discussion with them about how how this was going to work, so you people with the signs, you had better think twice about whether or not you want to have a discussion with anyone. I'm for national healthcare.

You clowns voted this controling guy in! Enjoy him now! You were So adament about getting this guy - now look he is shoving it down our throats! You thought BUSH was scary??????????? Nancy Pelosi is like a vampire - now THATS scary!

"I find this whole rush to judgment on healthcare by the president really discomforting,'' Sununu said. "If this issue is as important (as he says it is,) it's an issue that deserves full debate in the committees... an opportunity for the people to read the bill this time.''

Amen. Is it a point of pride that the
President feels his reform must pass within his first year of office? Or is it simply his ego...he said he would do this and, by golly, he will! Whether we like it or not...because we obviously don't know what's good for us anyway. Only the President knows!

I'm sorry. I just can't help but be a bit more than skeptical. When it sounds too good to be true...for sure it comes with a hidden agenda or price tag or both. Look out America.

Well on the one hand, one can argue it is reasonably easier to sue for medical malpractice (so the industries involved have to protect themselves above and beyond), and, on the other hand, maybe the rise in these suits isn't a matter of greedy lawyers and patients hell-bent on striking it big (although, I'd hate to put a price on such sensitive matters). As much as the rise in malpractices suits is a reflection of a system that is very prone, under it's current private structure, to make medical mistakes. Medical mistakes you normally wouldn't make under more socialized medicine, in "socialized" countries, which have a higher QUALITY of CARE IF you are LUCKY enough to gain ACCESS to it. Making it harder for people to sue for medical malpractice, without trying to address what in the current health care structure lends to these malpractice suits aside from the lack of "caps" or suit limitations, only profits the moguls; surely, they wouldn't pass along the savings when they can turn a profit, faster. I laugh anytime I see the old "how many people come here for care and how many leave to get care." Certainly depends on the country we are talking about, but it is not unheard of for people who are wealthy enough to make the trip to the States, immigrants, to chose to get care in their own "socialized" country over the care available in this country; especially when faced with the in-roads and the run-a-rounds of the current US system. These immigrants are wealthy enough to gain access to quality care in their country. If I had the choice between having to wait for care but knowing that once I got it I would be satisfied from it (I could depend on the thoroughness and accuracy of diagnosis which cuts my time in the end) and having care readily available but wouldn't be satisfied once I got it ( I could not depend on the thoroughness and accuracy of a diagnosis which just draws me into the system, wasting my time)--I'd choose the country with the quality medicine. Having seen both sides of the fence, the US has the comfortable and fairly accessible (albeit at times costly) health care setting with all the perks of advances and technology. However, overseas you have the fairly dependable and highly skilled physicians (albeit not easily accessible). You almost would love to marry the two sides, and the reason why the level of care is higher oversees might be because the lack of availability, advances, technology, and variety in medical care (you know all the things that make capitalism bearable if immoral ) forces providers of medicine (like doctors/gov) to do more with less (a thing that makes socialism bearable if evil). The one thing to point out is that nationalizing something in the US and nationalizing something abroad does have different results. We should consider that government run education in, let's say, Europe is AHEAD of government run education in the States. You can extend this to anything government run. It seems to me there is a certain pork factor to our government that makes a lot of the conservative backlash valid if misguided on the objection. Currently the backlash seems to be rooted in more of a feral cat/visceral (read evil/possessed/witch trials) reaction than anything else. I guess if the hippy doves churned out for the Iraq War under Bush, feral hawks is as good as anything we can ask for, for Obamacare.

This guy is ridiculous!!!

Even a little dog can see through him!!!
http://www.breitbart.tv/dog-refuses-treats-from-barack-obama/

You can't tell wingnuts anything. Many of them flat out lie about the provisions of the Obama health care plan. No one is trying to take away their private health care plans or regulate who can get health care and who can't. Actually that is happening now. There are plans that tell who where you can and cannot get your care. If you have a previous condition and get laid off you might not even be able to get insurance. The few Americans that are getting what they want don't give a damn about those that can't. I can speak to that personally. I got laid off. Because of previous heart surgery most companies deny me. The few that don't want premiums that make the insurance almost worthless. Oh, I forgot- the wingnuts would say I have no automatic right to healthcare and since I got laid off, tough. How can they even consider themselves Christian since they care for no one other than themselves. Oh that's right, according to the wingnuts I must be an illegal Latino. I am a natural-born Caucasian that worked for over thirty years. But facts mean little to biased wingnuts.

HEY!! All you children who just want to yell and scream leave the room, and go play on the highway, so that the adults can have a reasonable discussion. I MEAN NOW!

You can tell Democrats know they're in trouble when they whip out the ol' race card. It's worked before...why not try it again?

Obama's townhall was totally scripted and an insult to the intelligence of the American people. Nice touch including the little girl reading from her card, but blatant lies and manipulation are not going to work this time.

In contrast to this 'infomercial' full of campaign style repetitious non-information and dis-information, the other townhalls did contain passion, truth and accurate information.

The lady that spoke up for the Constitution in Arlan Specter's townhall made me proud to be an Anerican.

Most disturbing allegations about the bills being considered were:
1) Government wants right to access our bank accounts as part of a universal health bill?
2) Abortions will be paid for, but care for infants still in the womb would require 'health panel' approval?
3) Rationing of care for the elderly will include, and be dependent upon these same health panels, with mandatory 'end-of-life-counseling'?!?

Why are the only two (2) options being considered, bureaucratic and corrupt-ridden 'Government-Run' or 'Insurance-Company-Run' options?

What about local cooperatives run by Doctors, financed by 401K-style savings and retirement accounts that collect interest while people are young and healthy, and that are tapped into only when folks get old - available across State lines, with Federal Government oversight only.

What about a Stimulus Plan that includes building more Hospitals and Emergency Rooms across the nation? If you build them, the Doctors and Nurses will come!

Socialized healthcare and cap-and-trade global taxation are just tools for overwhelming the economy and Obama is nothing more than a Muslim Trojan Horse.

The president should recommend that the government end medicare, tri-care and medicaid. That would save billions of dollars per year, an allow the insurance companies to provide coverage instead. After all, those programs are socialize medicine, an so what if grandma can't get her hip fixed, pay the premiums, buy medications or pay hospital bills. I say let her sell her house, use her savings and eat dog food as long as she paid the healthcare bill, not the government While we are at it, let's do away with unemployment compensation, fha mortgages, programs for woman and children, funding for roads and highways, an any other function the government funds, supports or regulate. We don't need socialism.

quote:

The president should recommend that the government end medicare, tri-care and medicaid. That would save billions of dollars per year, an allow the insurance companies to provide coverage instead. After all, those programs are socialize medicine, an so what if grandma can't get her hip fixed, pay the premiums, buy medications or pay hospital bills. I say let her sell her house, use her savings and eat dog food as long as she paid the healthcare bill, not the government While we are at it, let's do away with unemployment compensation, fha mortgages, programs for woman and children, funding for roads and highways, an any other function the government funds, supports or regulate. We don't need socialism.

Why stop there ! Close the libraries, public swimming pools, museums, fire & police departments, publically funded pension funds, all major highways & freeways, public schools and bike trails.
Lets rid ourselves of all these anti-American socialist commie pinko programs once and for all............except for the programs which benefit the rightwing nuts and there are plenty !

Everyone needs to ponder one question. How many people from the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, go
to other countries for medical treatment?.

Everyone needs to ponder one question. How many people from the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, go
to other countries for medical treatment?.

Posted by: Paul | August 12, 2009 11:33 AM

A lot. It's called Medical tourism. It's happening more and more every day because people cannot afford the healthcare here.

http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/thehumancondition/archive/2009/08/07/Medical-Tourism-Appeals-to-60-Percent-Of-Americans-Are-You-One-Of-Them.aspx

http://www.examiner.com/x-9303-Miami-Health-Care-Examiner~y2009m8d3-Medical-Tourism--one-answer-to-rising-health-care-costs

How many people in America can afford to go to other countries for healthcare !!? Can you find any more intelligent questions, to lob !!? You must be a Republican or a Libertarian !! Go and get an education !!
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, BRING THEM HOME, ALIVE AND WHOLE. NOW.

Nick, it seems that the two articles you cited raise an issue that is at the crux of the discussion: Americans are traveling abroad to get cheaper (and riskier?) treatment, and foreigners are traveling here to avoid waiting for treatment in their native countries. The dilemna raised by this dichotomy seems, to me, to show that there is something that needs to be corrected in both situations. Regardless of what DF thinks, this question you present does deserve further investigation. In looking through the posts, I found this issue was brought up in 1974, when Nixon proposed a "National Comprehensive Health Insurance Plan." I have not been able to find the entire plan, but what I read on the Nixon LIbrary website looks interestiing and may offer a solution.

I can't believe the stretch of logic some people are making over the phrase in the bill requiring doctors to mention advanced directive options. One conservative commentator said it would encourage doctors to "sell" wills and ultimately cause them to discourage care. That is like saying Miranda Rights are just a ploy for police officers to sell lawyer's services.

Misinformation & Correction :

1. Rationing & A long Line :

With the help of upcoming IT system, the concern of a long waiting list probably doesn't matter. And now that docs are liable for patient's outcome, no intervention in the final decision is allowed other than 'recommendations' for best practices.

In the government-run, single-payer Medicare program, enrollees choose their own doctors, receive care in a timely manner. Similarly, the public option can be viewed as extension of medicare, exactly speaking, an upgraded version of it.

2. Saving & low Quality :

Most part of savings is made up of weeding out such wastes as so called "doughnut hole" , the unnecessary subsidies for insurers, the duplicate tests and unproven sham level of treatments, abuse, exorbitant costs by the tragic ER visits and so forth. As president Obama noted, the analogy of insulation, weatherization would be appropriate.

With that in mind nearly two-thirds of the cost of reform will come from reallocating money, overall, the financial architecture is looking good.

And let me stress : If you are a physician, and your pay is dependant upon your patient's outcome, you will most likely strive to prescribe the best medicine available earlier in the process, let alone skimming the wasteful, unnecessary, and risk-carrying procedures.

3. Take-over ;

The runaway premium similar to the peak fuel price last year and left so many folks in despair insists on staying the course with the attitude 'unchanged', clearly this trend could bankrupt individual, business, and government. Now the government subsequently is tasked with these two main assignments, first, to address premium inflation, second, to expand coverage to all in urgent need.

In order to cover all and not to add to the deficit, the public option can not set the same rates of private market, rather, it needs to have BALANCING function to keep it in check in terms of INFLATION, too. Unfortunately, this 'unavoidable' direction is aggressively being accused by the runaway premium, citing government 'take-over' .

Under the circumstances the energy bill to determine human future and the other major issues are presently piled up, who wants to waste time making enemies ?, which also does not benefit the forthcoming election.

with the heartbreaking tears in mind (Nearly 11 Million Cancer Patients Without Health Insurance), private market also needs changes and should join together to complete this reform , as promised, otherwise, the runaway premium only has itself to blame while new firms are filling the void with competitive deals.
And It can be said that fair competition starts with a fair, sustainable market value.

However, Job-based coverage (indirect payment) and a limitation code over transfer, mandate code, and ample capital, reduced ER costs, IT base to streamline the administrative processes and trim costs might be favorable to the private market. Over time, supposedly, the public plan will concentrate more on basic, primary cares, and the private insurers will provide their clients with differentiated services.

4. Tax rise :

In the context the current health care wastes an estimated one-third – or about $700 billion – on unnecessary procedures, unnecessary visits to the doctor, overpriced pharmaceuticals, bloated insurance companies, and the most inefficient paper billing systems imaginable, health care reformers have often cited the system at Mayo Clinic as a model.

In modernized society, the business lacking IT system is unthinkable just like pre-electricity period, nevertheless, the last thing to expect is happening now in the sector requiring the most accuracy in respect to dealing with human lives. Apparently the errors by no e-medical records have spawned the crushing lawsuits, and these costs have led to the unnecessary tests, treatments, even further, more profits so far.

Thankfully, the pay for 'outcome' pack modeled after the system at Mayo Clinic is most likely to expedite the introduction of IT system, and the combined system is capable of shifting volume into quality in Medicare & Medicaid, thereby offsetting the 239 billions of estimated deficit, which is generated by $245 billions, the 10-year cost of adjusting Medicare reimbursement rates so physicians don’t face big annual pay cuts.

Supporters of the agreement say it could save the Medicare System more than $100 billion a year and 'improve' care, supposedly even a quarter of it might be enough to meet the goal of revenue-neutral. Moreover, in case this innovative idea applies to the public option, presumably it can lower the overall expense sharply, too.

And in respect to preventative program, surprisingly enough, the system today is designed around treating patients once they become sick, following 'spillover' and 'levee breach' , as too high level of preventable chronic disease accounts for it. By contrast, all of the excellent health systems seem to have one feature in common, an expansive, systematic preventative program demanding immense investments.

Some say the effect of preventative program is below zero compared with investments, or takes a long time even beyond next decade window, but if this program in the exemplary systems is disorganized, the odds are high that they will also face the same pressing need for reform in a few years. Like common sense, fire needs to prevent in advance or foil in early phase, and it would be the most cost-saving measure, in my mind.

Just like marriage, economy also undergoes up and down, however, economic downturn is not reflected in the employment-based system. The rising mental stress & 'keep eating habit' , which are the epicenter of a number of different diseases, might be traced to this insecure system and exorbitant premiums.
Once the health care reform provides the general public with peace of mind, the rising mental stress, obesity caused by the the deep-seated apprehension and exorbitant premiums may bend the curve surprisingly.
And reducing the tragic ER visits can lessen costs for the already insured, what's more, the balancing function of public option could mitigate fast-rising premiums.

I guess If the cost of the reform is an issue Americans take seriously, then all of the 'free' nations in the world should withdraw the existing public policy. Instead, it might be the 'will' of reform to end disgrace. Here is the hope, while the runaway premium wound up in the collapse of middle class ranging ' from finance to mental health' , alongside the peak fuel price and fast-growing mortgage rate, this time, clearly, the positive impacts involving massive job creation, promising stem cell research, several times more economic effects of 'from bed to work' , in return, will lead to economic recovery.

Thank You For Reading !