Sarah Palin: Obama's healthcare 'evil'

Sarah is no socialist, she doesn't mind standing up and speaking her mind.

In 2003, under G.W. Bush, the federal Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality published a report recommending Advance Care Planning, with detailed guidelines for practitioners. Nobody called that euthanasia.

Advance Care Planning is legal in almost every state; the bill in question merely allows health care providers to be paid by Medicare for counseling patients on this matter, should the patient request this service - it would not be mandatory.

See:

http://notionscapital.wordpress.com/2009/08/07/obama-wants-to-kill-your-grandma/

And to think I was beginning to feel sorry for Sarah and her family when rumors of divorce surfaced. But, she brings on the grief herself when she demagogs health insurance reform with terms like 'death panel' while using her son as a prop in order to demonize the issue. I say take the gloves off and drive this woman from politics forever.

The only thing "evil" in this rant is Palin herself. She is riling up the hard right and this will backfire in her face.

One more time she has shown her absolute ignorance .If she feels she needs to speak out on a subject she should research and totally read the exact wording prior to making a fool of herself. Evil is a strong word and she uses with no regard to people that are impressionable and confused..Obama has tirelessly worked along with his staff and both parties to provide all of us with insurance coverage..What he if offering is the same thing as Hospice..just different wording..Hospice care is end of life care Palin. Again...she should read before she spouts off..Evil is exploiting your children for political gain...

I don't care about former governor Palin. I am beginning a blog to record the numbers of time the press hacks resort to making up names and outright do name calling instead of doing their job for us as the fourth estate. You are all sell-outs and unless an article or topic or report advances your careers or heightens your "image" and gains you some more bucks it isn't a "good story". There is so much questionable ethics in public offices (federal, state and local) requiring your attention and good solid investigative reporting; with fact-checking b-t-w, and all you can do is come up with a seven letter word for former? Quit and give us all a break.

What a shame, Senator McCain was selfish enough to bring then-Governor Palin, to our nation's attention. It has disturbed her bearings, to the point of calling our President, who is a family man, a compassionate man, a purveyor of "evil". She has become increasingly disappointing, but this latest outburst is unexplainable, unfathomable. I thought she had more sense than she has been showing lately and I am sorry for her and for her family. I think the best thing she could do for herself and her family, would be for her to return to private life and help her family and herself, get back on their feet. She is still young enough and smart enough, to take some time off, go back to school, gain more knowledge of our world, and of our nation. I hope she doesn't continue to embarrass herself and her family. Maybe, that most compassionate of Parties, the Republican Party, can quit stabbing her in the back, all the time and help her find her way!! Is that asking the impossible ??
SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, BRING THEM HOME, ALIVE AND WHOLE. NOW.

So let me get this straight: first she throws a tantrum about media coverage of her family, then she uses her own special needs child as a prop to spread ugly lies about healthcare? Class act, lady, class act.
I wonder how ashamed Trig will be of his own mother when he learns how she used him.

You know what's really evil? A politician stirring up fear and anger with lies. A politician who would demagogue an important issue for their own benefit, by appealing to the ignorance of others. In other words, Sarah Palin is evil. Ther is no other word for her and her actions. Evil.

She should be a wise polar girl and shut up for a good long while, instead of constantly reminding us what an idiot she is.

Sarah Palin's disgraceful use of her child to further the evil notion that the American President wants to kill the handicapped and the elderly is beyond evil. Why does she hate us? Nothing positive to contribute, just hate, hate-filled words that might prompt yet another right-wing wacko to kill people. Isn't Philly, the Holocaust museum, Kentucky church...isn't it enough of a body count for the GOP?

This is insane. Why are we still 'listening' to Sarah Palin? Instead of giving her the attention she craves, we need to ask questions directly to our leaders instead of drawing conclusions and whipping up a firestorm around flawed logic. The president has answered concerns about 'end of life' counseling, etc. So let's move on and ask exactly how a revamped healthcare/Insurance system will help us, and DEMAND that it contains legislation to address our collective concerns.

THIS is EVIL? this coming from a woman who allowed her city to charge victims for their rape kits back in wasilla!! the nerve of this evil old lady!!

i get it.. sarah palin's health care plan: make innocent victims like molested children pay for their rape kits so long as rich people like her don't have to pay another dime in taxes.

what a disgrace. and nevermind the fact that bankruptcy takes a toll on our economy and medical bills remain the number one cause of bankruptcy in this country.

please use spellcheck, its a nice free easy feature.

Sarah Palin continues to show how ridiculous she is. Lies, lies, and more lies! I don't understand how *anyone* can take her seriously. Or Michele Bachman, for that matter. Two absolute fools.

If you disagree with Obama's plans, then at least speak the truth and make intelligent arguments. There is no "death panel" being suggested by anyone on any side of the issue. And if the proposal to have Medicare pay for *voluntary* discussions about end-of-life plans is the basis for all this euthanasia b.s., keep in mind that it came from Republicans!

If you want to be in charge of your own healthcare and not to have decisions made by others, then you need to have an advanced directive. If you want every medical intervention known to man done for you when you are unable to speak for yourself, then you'd better get it in writing, even if you're well below Medicare age, or you risk a Terry Schiavo-like circus for yourself. All the committee is looking at is a proposal to have insurance pay for you to have that living will discussion with your doctor. That's it. No euthanasia.

And the Trib is happy to give this character a front page headline.

I wonder why young people don't buy newspapers?

No problem. Sarah should have her personal witch doctor exorcise these demons as well. I do have to ask, where was Palin's outpouring of concern for others while, as mayor of Wasilla, she continuously denied dna rape kits to victims to help catch the rapists, a denial that lasted intil a state law was passed in order to bring Wasilla into compliance with the rest of the state. Going to church on Sunday then denying vital dna testing to rape victims on Monday, who would do such a thing? And now she wants to stand as 'guardian' of our children and elderly? No thank you Mrs. Palin.

Some people may not think Palin is politically correct .. But she's right on target ..
The American people need to take some strong action against this Obama regime before its too late ..

As my mom used to say when a schoolkid would insult me, "Consider the source." She covers all the right wing talking points all right...all of them baseless, unfounded and untrue. I was especially amused that she had to mention the down's syndrome kid in the very first sentence. She's a freak show who needs to go away.

Reasoned, non-reactionary thought seems to have been thrown out the window into the vast Alaskan wilderness in Citizen Palin's latest narrow-minded diatribe against President Obama's proposal for health care for each and every American. It is getting near hibernation season; join the Toklat grizzly and give the public some rest.

Sarah Palin is back because the 24
hour news cycle has nothing better
to report on.I would rather read an
expose on paint drying.

I'm sorry to see Palin is playing to the knee-jerking uninformed. She could do so much more good than this.

Oh nice, she's got a ghost writer! Maybe George Will took pity on her and offered her the services of his research staff so that she could at least pepper her rantings with cites that both speak to the "intelligentsia" of her party and reach out to black voters. Much better!

But people don't want to read Mrs. Palin. We so want to hear the clarion delivery of her ideas.

Please Sarah. Using Facebook and Twitter to disseminate your ideas is like the male peacock relying only on his warble to attract a mate.

We want you in all your glory!

An Obama "death panel"?
If government run health care is that horrible, why not eliminate Medicare, Medicaid & benefits that soldiers & veterans receive?

Come on you birthers. Put-up or shut-up. Go to the town hall meetings with your intent to do nothing but be the loudest shouters in the room & demand those socialist, un-American health care programs be repealed.

Speaking of evil, Sarah Palin is both foolish and evil! This poor soul has no idea what she is saying! May she go away...far, far away!

Sorry, this may seem like a long post. But compared to the 1,000 page ObamaCare bill, it's teeny!!! Judge for yourself....

Pg 22 of the HC Bill MANDATES the Govt will audit books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self insure

Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you receive

Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill - YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED. You can only receive a certain amount of "care" per year

Pg 42 of HC Bill - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You have no choice.

PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill - HC will be provided to ALL non US residents, illegal or otherwise

Pg 58HC Bill - Govt will have real-time access to individuals finances & a National ID Health Card will be issued.

Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Govt will have direct access to your banks accts for funds transfer

PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community orgs (example -ACORN).

Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Govt is creating an HC Exchange to bring private HC plans under Govt control.

PG 84 Sec 203 HC bill - Govt mandates ALL benefit pkgs for private HC plans in the Exchange

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs for Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will ration your Healthcare.

PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill - Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services...... Example - Translation for illegal aliens

Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individually for Govt HC plan

PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill - Specs of Benefit Levels for Plans.#AARP members - your Health care WILL be rationed

-PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill -
Medicaid Eligible Indiv. will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt monopoly

pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill - Doctors/ #AMA - The Govt will tell you what you can make.

Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE

Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.

Pg 149 Lines 16-24 ANY Employer with a
payroll 400k & above who does not prov. public option, pays 8% tax on all payroll

pg 150 Lines 9-13 Businesses with payroll between 251k & 400k that don't prov. pub. opt pay 2-6% tax on all payroll

Pg 167 Lines 18-23 ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC accordng to Govt will be taxed 2.5%

Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill, Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (American taxpayers will pay for them)

Pg 195 HC Bill -officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans financial/personal records

PG 203 Line 14-15 HC - "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax"

Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill, Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor will be very affected

Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill - Doctors, doesn"t matter what specialty you have, will all be paid the same

PG 253 Line 10-18 Govt sets value of Dr's time, professional judgments, etc.

PG 265 Sec 1131 ,Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries

PG 268 Sec 1141 Fed Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs

PG 272 SEC. 1145. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS -Cancer patients - rationing according to age

Page 280 Sec 1151 The Govt will penalize hospitals for what Govt deems preventable re-admissions.

Pg 317 L 13-20 PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Drs. what/how much they can own.

Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand

pg 321 2-13 Hospitals have oppt to apply for exception BUT community input required.

Pg335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339 - Govt mandates estab. of outcome based measures.. Rationing

Pg 341 Lines 3-9 Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Adv Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing all into Govt HC plan

Pg 354 Sec 1177 - Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs

Pg 379 Sec 1191 Govt creates Telehealth
Advisory Cmtte. HC by phone

PG 425 Lines 4-12 Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Seniors will be
interviewed every five years for health issues and decisions made as to what care they can or can't receive

Pg 425 Lines 17-19 Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of atty. Mandatory!

PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Govt provides apprvd list of end of life resources, guiding you in death

PG 427 Lines 15-24 Govt mandates program for orders for end of life. The Govt has a say in how your life ends

Pg 429 Lines 1-9 An "adv. care planning consult" will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates

PG 429 Lines 10-12 "adv. care consultation" may include an ORDER for end of life plans.

Pg 429 Lines 13-25 - The govt will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order.

PG 430 Lines 11-15 The Govt will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life

Pg 469 - Community Based Home Medical Services=Non profit orgs.

Page 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORG. 1
monthly payment to a community-based org.

PG 489 Sec 1308 The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage

Get over it Sarah. Your 15 minutes were over a long time ago.

sure, taking no stand on the issues doesn't compromise the purchase of newspapers from either side of the political spectrum, but by reporting on what people say and not giving an opinion (you're a blog, not an AP Wire), you are a complicit observer in the falling to pieces of this country as a result of ugly, unfair, sore-loser opposition tactics. I would very much like to know why you put outlandish rumors in quotation marks -- why are you afraid to call a lie a lie?

YOU NEED TO PROOF READ THIS ARTICLE BADLY!!!! IT IS BARELY READABLE. ARE YOU GUYS UNDERSTAFFED?

Thank God Sarah is able to take one of America's most pressing issue and define it with precise answers to these questions. With a vocabulary like a surgeon, she cuts through the fog so America can solve our problem. Only thing left to say is "Sarah is downright stupid and unqualified".

Why does the media continue to give a voice to this ignorant person? She is the one who is "evil." By making these outrageous allegations she is foolishly inciting some crazed fanatic into violence. Enough with Sarah Palin. She lost- Thank goodness.

Oh, yes, Sarah! Throw your baby into it! You play that baby and Downs Syndrome more than a violin! As for evil, it takes one to know one! It's about time the Republicans faced the fact that a good portion of the nation voted for Barack Obama because he promised healthcare reform. And we're not saying yes, but hell, yes!

"Government programs, once launched, never disappear."
===========================
Substitute "unsuccessful VP candidates" for "Government programs."

WHO CARE WHAT MS.PALIN THINKS. SHE IS A NUT CASE!!!

There's an unfortunate typo in the next-to-last word of this passage:

"However, the contention that Democratic-sponsored healthcare bills would encourage euthanasia has circulateon the Internet for weeks. Obama and others in the party have dismissed it as a distortion. The nonpartisan group FactCheck.org, a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania also has refuted the claim ass false."

We will never win against our enemies unless we decide we can unite as a people. This type of discourse further divides us. United we stand Divided we fall.

"The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care,"
------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, better just leave that job to the health insurance industry. But keep all of this up Sarah because you're embarrassing your own party.

Once again, the truth will not stand in the way of Sarah Palin shooting off her barely above 8th grade graduate intellect.

Evil is the word to describe someone who distorts the truth to scare people.

I was at one of these healthcare town-hall meetings the other day, once the group of 80-plus-year-old ladies (standing next to me) had become winded from screaming out “no socialized medicine” and could scream no longer, I heard an older Republican gentlemen (his “I hate Nazi’s” sign, gave him away) talking about how his dog, had just crapped in his favorite shoes. This older gentlemen, then, proceeds to tell how he’s sure, that his dog had been planning this crap attack for at least a week. Next, he states that he had been noticing, over the past 5 or 6 days, that his dog had been studying his movements, patterns, and habits, and is absolutely convinces, (just for cover) his dog crapped in his favorite shoes, a day before the dog knew, he was going to wear them.
What’s going on? Surely, most people are not this stupid or paranoid. Fueled by an organized ignorance, the principal factor at play, can only be explained, as a un-American hatred, for the President of these United States.
While stupidity and ignorance is a condition of the mind, thus, subject to toleration, hatred, a destruction of the soul, must never to be sanctioned, nor, allowed to prevail.
Though these are my own words, the thought of them could not have been invoked, were it not a re-discovering, of the inspirational words and thoughts of Martin Luther King Jr., and one quote in particular. And that is this;
Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.

While stupidity and ignorance is a condition of the mind, thus, subject to toleration, hatred, a destruction of the soul, must never to be sanctioned, nor, allowed to prevail.
Though these are my own words, the thought of them could not have been invoked, were it not a re-discovering, of the inspirational words and thoughts of Martin Luther King Jr., and one quote in particular. And that is this;
Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.

While stupidity and ignorance is a condition of the mind, thus, subject to toleration, hatred, a destruction of the soul, must never to be sanctioned, nor, allowed to prevail.
Though these are my own words, the thought of them could not have been invoked, were it not a re-discovering, of the inspirational words and thoughts of Martin Luther King Jr., and one quote in particular. And that is this;
Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.

The money quote "Obama death panel"...nobody puts her heel up Obama's azz like Palin does, you Democrats know it and your fear continues to show itself...As it should

Maybe just Maybe if the Big O and his party would tell us all the facts, answer questions put to them, read the bills close enough that they could tell us what is in them, then maybe just maybe we would know who is being honest.

I wonder who is writing her stuff these days? What a shame that such an important subject is ignored by the yahoo health insurance stooges.

Goes to show you there is a massive amount of liberal trash in Chicago.

Sara who?

One unanswered question: will the new health care bill cover Sarah's psychiatric care for her histrionic personality disorder?

Evil is the word for Sarah Palin.
Scary is the word for Sarah Palin.
Stupid is the word for those who give her remarks any value.
Please, please, please go away!

Sarah Palin thinks Obama's healthcare plan is evil....

She also thinks that the Earth is 6000 years old.

What is she, the designated hitter for the Replicans?

Don't worry Sarah.

The Death Panel will probably be palling around with terrorists when your case comes up.

However, there may be some SEALs looking for you.

Guys, read the bill. Most of the comments here show no understanding of what the bill says. There is actually a lot of language that indicates the government will set policies on what types of care will be approved. Read the bill.

Notice how Ms Palin inserts her child into a political discussion, but goes into an incoherent rant if other people do the same. Inconsistent? Hypocritical? Stupid? All of the above? You betcha.

This would be funny to hear it was not from a republican....
From a republican this is downright ironic!
Thousands of Iraqis died victims of American bombs and guns. They didn't have a chance to even go in front of a dead panel, dead came to them fast and furiously...

Palin supported that war, asked God to help our soldiers "get the job done".

She has some nerves to think she has any kind of moral leg to stand on giving us lectures about health care.... when there are documented cases of people dying in emergency rooms because hospitals refused to see them.

We demand health care reform and despite the misinformation from the right-wing nuts, we will push forward to remedy the health care problem we have.

The way they talk you would think we have a perfect health care system, WE DO NOT!

Did you find the death panels yet, Laura G?

Sarah Palin = Yesterday's News. Who cares what she thinks (it thinks?) except the Kooks who actaully believe she is the new "Bubba Massiah."

Helen Johnson, please stop making stuff up, I read through just a portion of your comments above & found your post to be completely unfounded.

Anyone interested in comparing her notes above with the actual bill, please see the link below:

http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20090714/aahca.pdf

I see Mark had to get his lust fix satisfied by visiting Sarah's Facebook page!
Anyway, I don't know about "evil," but Obimbo's health care plan is dangerous, bad, horrific, scary, tragic, bloated, incompetent, ill-conceived, and just plain bad.

Laura at 10:03,
Thanks to Helen Johnson's long post at 7:17 PM, I can read plenty of excerpts from the bill. My understanding is this is the "public option" so if I don't like the government plan I can keep my own private plan anyway, right?

In any case Helen is an example of uninformed people being confused by wording on a bill. "Physician's order for end of life care" means that the patient has discussed their preferences with the doctor and the doctor has documented it. That's all. What kind of idiot thinks this means that the physician "orders" someone's life to end? Or that reimbursing a doctor for having this discussion amounts to a death squad?

Get educated, people. Sarah Palin ought be be ashamed of herself. But that would require some level of insight on her part and evidently she has none.

This woman is stone cold crazy.

There are a lot of insults about Sarah Palin posted here from people who don't agree with what she wrote and well researched facts from those who do agree. I see she has also posted heaps of links to other articles that support her view. Who am I going to take notice of? I appreciate Sarah Palin personalising this issue. Of course some people don't want her to do this. It brings the truth closer to their doors (or hospital beds.) It might also mean the vote they cast last year was a mistake and that is something the could never face up to.

Obama promised health care reform and those who voted him in office will hold him to his promise. America cannot simply ignore the heath care crisis any longer. Most people wind up in bankrupcy and foreclosure over unpaid medical debt and makre no mistake, it happens to the insured, as well.
Meanwhile the quitter Sarah Palin has put her own bizarre frightening spin on one proposal, involking " evil " with the intention of whipping up the frightened into a panic frenzy, thus assuring no The quitter is volunteering her experise to the insurance lobby to assure there is no change in the status quo and insurance companies remain the king.
This is so very wrong on so many levels. Manipulating crowds to wage war against other Americans takes the focus off the real issue and thats the way the insurance cabal wants it. Muddy the waters with anything, just muddy them and thats what the quitter Sarah Palin is doing.

9. Thous shalt not bear falsse witness against thy neighbor.

Sarah Palin is wicked. She worships nothing but her own advancement and fame. Her attempts to gin up her crowds are pure evil.

Palin fits the definition of a false prophet: claiming to worship God but encouraging hate instead of love. "By their fruits you will know them." Look at the angry, contorted faces of her 'base' after she tells her lies. Those hate-filled people are not a reflection of God's love. Tune her messages out NOW!

Sarah Palin is a moron, period, end of story.

Here's some must-see video from Democratic Rep. Kathy Castor's speech yesterday at the Tampa, Florida town hall co-hosted by the SEIU and State Rep. Betty Reed:

If you know anybody who's got doubts about the true nature of the anti-health care wingnut goons trying to disrupt health care town halls, have them watch this video. Let them see for themselves the truly infantile behavior of these angry wingnuts. They aren't interested in dialogue, debate, or discussion. All they want to do is hear their own voices scream, shouting down anybody with whom they happen to disagree.

The full speech is about fifteen minutes long. You can watch it here. The wingnut goons were trying to shout Castor down for almost the entire speech, and for at least five minutes of it, they made her nearly impossible to hear.
.
http://www.dailykostv.com/w/002029/
.

The only thing evil is Palin herself...

What really does worry me is not what any government run health care will do under a democratic controlled Washington, but rather what would happen to health care if those republicans ever get back in office. I could see right wing Christians demanding to not pay for prenatal for unmarried moms, even withholding coverage for birth control, and other evil doings.

"Obama's death panel."
She said that...
She really really said that.
She has no shame.

The horror,,,, the horror.

And she is 'the base' choice for POTUS?

Obama's trying to do what we elected him to do. Palin decided she didn't want to do what an apparent majority of Alaskans wanted her to do. So why is it that whenever she feels like she hasn't been in the spotlight enough and opens her mouth, people (via the media) pay attention?

I'm tempted to suggest that the major US papers and wire services should just agree that she's NOT news and adjust their coverage accordingly - but the only thing worse than excessive coverage of a media addict is collusion over what to follow and what to ignore; that's a necessary step down the slippery slope leading to Second World cities like Moscow and Singapore, not Second Cities like Chicago.

What a sad crash and burn ending Palin has come to now. She has wrecked the lives of her kids..i.e. one with drug problems, one she outed for an unwed pregnancy, one she's treated so bably that she is angry beyond words and may never recover from, and now a tiny child with special needs is being waved about like some kind of broken mechanism and ALL SO SAINT SARAH CAN GET SOME ATTENTION.

Life is cruel and very evil, most especially at the hands of a whackjob like Sarah Palin.

And I find it completely appalling that these Wingnut Teabagger thugs on the right are actually trying to sell the idea that all physicians would condone a "death panel"?!?! That's what it would take. ALL physicians to just merrily go along with such an outrageous thing. What they don't realize is that physicians have been giving away their time and expertise for FREE for YEARS to thousands of people who had no insurance or couldn't afford to pay. These men and women, with few exceptions, are committed to saving human lives. ALL human lives. And most would walk away before allowing something so horrific.

Whenever I think the right-wing lunatic fringe can sink no lower, they just keep on surprising me. The main reason they cannot allow health care reform is because so many people would be thrilled with it that Republicans wouldn't be in power for a long, long time after it passed.

Wake up, Wingnut followers of people like Palin! Look around the world at other industrialized countries around the world who are passing us by economically and ask yourself if those with healthcare are being euthanized? QUIT LISTENING TO IDIOTS LIKE GLENN BECK, BOSS LIMBAUGH AND PALIN etc, STOP THE STUPID!! THINK FOR YOUSELF FOR ONCE IN YOUR LIFE!

Sarah Palin Believes Obama Has a "Death Panel"?!?!

I know, I know. I should just walk away and not gawk at the car wreck that is Sarah Palin's attempts to communicate via Twitter and Facebook.

Where do you begin with a statement that is this moronic?

Since Palin is an avowed non-reader, she repeats the kind of nonsense that other right-wing nutjobs (Rush) have conjured up on AM Hate radio to scare people away from Health Care Reform.

By the way, Sarah. The phrase, "we’re saying not just no, but hell no!" has been uttered by you so many times, regarding so many issues, that the words have lost their meaning.

Let’s do this slowly, Sarah, so you can keep up:

- If you like your private insurance, you get to keep it.

- If you don’t like a Corporate Health Insurance accountant deciding which treatment that your doctor recommended will actually be paid for, if any, you can select the Public Option.

- There is no rationing of care, except that which is going on now for 50 million Americans without health insurance.

Most Republicans nowadays are so stupid that they probably need help getting dressed in the morning. Clowns.

Palin is clueless. The America she knows has a healthcare system where insurance companies routinely deny people access to treatments that they need. What Palin wants to maintain is a system where only the rich (like her) have access to decent medical care. The rest of us can go eat cake, I guess...

Do those people saying "read the bill." Yes, by all means, read it. Then compare it to what your insurance companies offer: and the wide variety of circumstances under which they will refuse to pay for your medical needs.

While doing so, compare the average life expectancies of Americans to those of Canadians and Europeans. What you will find there is that citizens of countries with socialized medicine generally live longer than do Americans.

So, yes, by all means: read. Read, compare and contrast. Just because you are not rich, it does not follow that you are not worthy of medical care, and the contrasts will show that.

Maybe Obama can send in his union thugs to beatup trig and Sarah Palin?

Obama has had his union thugs beat up those who disagree with before...

Sarah Palin is both ignorant and evil. May she zip her mouth shut forever!

PS Obama said as much to an elderly woman who got a pacemaker,Obama said instead of a pacemaker the government would give her a pain pill.

In other words no pacemaker just die,yep sounds like a death panel..........

Palin should stick to issues she knows best: how to manipulate the media by thrusting her kids in the spotlight and then whining about it.

She really needs to get over herself and get some brains.

She's a lunatic. And anyone who takes her even a little bit seriously is a first rate simpleton. Ironically, in her quitting speech, she chided the media to "quit making things up." And then she comes with the absurd "death panel" comment. She may not understand irony, but she sure traffics in it.

I'm not saying you have to like Obama or support health care reform. But come on, Republicans. Surely you can do even a little bit better.

"Thanks to Helen Johnson's long post at 7:17 PM, I can read plenty of excerpts from the bill. "

Actually, thanks to Helen Johnson's long post, you can read a debunked internet rumor.

What's left of the Republican base are a bunch of toothless rednecks who are dumber than a bag of rocks. They want their insurance companies to keep screwing them over because the alternative is an America in which black people can run around and be president and stuff, and the mere thought of that chills most of these right-wing paranoid birther, teabagger, racist, "Death Panel" nutcases to the bone.

Like the troll under the bridge, out she pops! Wan't safe to cross over after all.

Once again, Palin speaks without knowing what she talks about. I would love some reporter to be able to question her about this "Death Panel," and ask her if what is going on in Texas, a version of her so called "Death Panel".
Texas, a very conservative state, actually has policies in place, that deal with assisting families in dealing with "futile care". Its a very ethical approach to a very difficult topic and decision for the families.
If one compares some of Thomas Jefferson's writing, against Palin's rants, one could safely assume that Jefferson was talking about Palin, and not in a supportive way. If Palin were in the White House, and Thomas Jefferson alive, she would have already tried to run him out of town.

Palin is a nobody. Who cares what she has to say?

Who cares what she thinks? Why is this shirking loser even news.? Tribune give us a break. Stop boosting this freak.

Posted by: Helen Johnson | August 8, 2009 7:17 PM

Your HMO rations your care now!!! I don't see a difference. If you need a specialist, you might die before the paperwork get's you an approved Dr.

The healthcare reform is simply an option. Like deciding between an HMO or PPO. And, yes, if you take it, you become subject to its' terms. Like any other health insurance.

I don't think all the right health care issues are being addressed. Helping to cut costs is the main goal, but how is that accomplished? Will a government "option" provide meaningful competition to the private health care industry? Maybe, but if not enough people leave there health care, it won't.

Whatever efforts are used, I believe there are 2 items that need to be addressed that noone is talking about.

First, we need to end the scam known as COBRA. What sense does it make if you lose your job your insurance premium doubles? If you lose your job un-voluntarily, the premium you paid under your employers plan should be frozen for 6 - 12 months. Or until you find new employment.

2nd, and along similar lines, we need a plan that will end employer based coverage all together. What I mean by that, is insurance premiums should be low enough for individuals and families to purchase so you are not "stuck" with what your employer provides. Not to mention, it would help reduce employer costs if health insurance premiums were at a level where employers did not feel they needed to subsidize premiums.

How`s that white guilt vote working out for you IDIOTS? You getting what you wanted yet?

Palin is right.
The government had better disarm the people before they start killing us.

Lest us Blacks and Jews not forget the "evil one: who would skin us like her hunting catch.
Watch out, think about the real evil doers of the past.
What is her mission? A closet skinhead?

Palin qualifies for healthcare that most Americans don’t qualify for and Trig is covered. So her story is bull. There are a couple of related posts at http://iamsoannoyed.com/?page_id=588

Did she hear this from some wacko Beck caller or fringe blogger or is she restoring to making up crazy rumors about the president now that she has nothing to do all day? Either one is pathetic...

http://www.political-buzz.com/

Do the majority of Americans not realize how insurance works? EVERY insurance plan has limits/restrictions on what kind of care you can get. My insurance doesn't let me get procedures that aren't proven to show benefit. My insurance stops paying after a certain total $ amount has been paid out. Current private insurance already satisfies the criteria that the Republicans are crying foul about the national plan. If insurance doesn't have limits or restrictions, it would ALL FAIL.

PS I actually want end-of-life counciling, to set up a DNR, etc. I'm glad the bill includes that language.

Soreah is no longer a politician. She is now a celebrity. As such, as our wingnut friends keep reminding us, she has no business commenting on current events and politics. As such, she should stfu and go away.

The only thing more pathetic than Palin are her defenders.

Really? That's funny, because I think Sara Palin is downright evil. You know, vapid, my-way-or-the-highway, dead behind the eyes, appeal to the lowest common denominator bimbo. Evil. Pure evil. And I thought it couldn't get worse than Dubya. Quayle-W-Palin. That's a helluva trajectory you got there, GOP.

A little over a year ago, NOBODY cared or even knew of Sarah Palin. Now... she is a former governor who QUIT her position. She did not complete her term, she quit!!

Now, she uses her child with Down Syndrome to promote her nutty, uneducated and plain white trash thinking and calls the Obama plan "evil". Where was this woman when Bush was invading countries, torturing people, violating the rights of American citizens? She was the mayor of a small town!

Why this ditz gets any press is beyond me!

I don't like Sarah Palin but I agree with her on Obama's healthcare bill. We need reforms but not a government take over.

We have to stop this before they ram it down our throats.

To Steve34. Your concerns are covered in the public option recommendation of the bill which would provide coverage if you lost your job. The bill also provides protection by having the insurance company pay for pre-existing conditions, which if you lost your job, got coverage from a private plan or new employer plan, would have not covered them. Currently the government through medicare and medicaid provide coverage for the most expensive folks, such as the elderly, disabled and poor. While the insurance companies get the least expensive, the young adults, kids and working folks, but yet raise premiums almost every year. A government plan would force competition in the marketplace for insurance companies, which they don't want.

palin implored the media to stop making things up, yet she continues to make things up herself. she's got her cash and health insurance screw everyone else.

If we don't give President Obama's plan a chance, even those who crow about how they're "happy with what they have now" will be sorry in the end. Just STOP AND THINK ABOUT IT!! One of the reasons companies are leaving the US at such an alarming rate is HEALTH CARE COSTS! They just keep going UP AND UP EVERY YEAR, with no end in sight! There's gonna be a point where employers WON'T BE ABLE TO AFFORD health care costs AND a decent living wage! THEN WHAT? Obama is trying to STOP this insatiable greed of insurance companies...SOMEONE should have YEARS AGO!!!

Obamacare will cause the ruination, if not the breakup of this country.

The "president" is dancing on the third rail. That flash and loud 'zzzzt' sound will occur when Usamabama draws the hellfire wrath of The People, who will bug-zap him like the cockroach vermin he is.

It's coming. Viva, Sarah.

Sarah Palin should be charged with the murder of the Republican Party.

Thank god for Sarah Palin. To her I say: Never give up!

Obama needs to learn what his role is as President. He is behaving like a glorified Senator on the campaign trail

Has anyone ever heard of Advanced Directives? Essentially these are your wishes if you become incapacitated and can not voice your opinions. This is in existence now if you go to any hospital or receive health care. It is not a "death panel" or any such descriptive term. By the way this was put into play by the Bush administration.

Misinformation is dangerous and the propagation of such information is really a disservice to the public. Read people and not just internet rumors!

By the way, there is no one bill out there that the president is supporting. Congress is WORKING on a bill that has to be combined and voted on.

When did Americans start being so reactionary and leave thinking for themselves behind?

Too bad that Palin has supporters at all. She is nothing but a Limbaugh in a dress. We already have government run programs that are functioning quite well. So, shut the heck up, Sarah.

Sarah Palin, the puppet of Beck and Limbaugh, has spoken again...... The angry, bitter, quittah from Wasilla expects every one to believe her irrational thoughts about the death squad. I have a better idea: instead of trying to incite anger and riots and lynching, why don't you come up with some original ideas and positive thoughts? Many of us believe that you get further if you are positive about things--rather than always criticising. Maybe instead of using as political props your baby and unwed teenage daughter who has a baby you could stay home and work on mothering them and nurturing them. We thought you were quitting the Governor's job because you were tired of being the media's scapegoat, but now it has become apparent that you quit before the sh*it hit the fan and the world could see the problems the State of Alaska is facing because of your lack of knowledge and attention to State details. It seems to us that your priority is keeping your name in the limelight and getting money and the issues and your family are pretty low on the totem pole. Me--myself and I--are your top priorities.

Why do we care what Palin thinks? Why is the Trib publcizing her comments / posts?

I didn't even read the article.

This is a person who resigned from her Governor post before the first term was up b/c she didn't want to be in the public light anymore.

Just let her fade away...

BTW - I'm glad I cancelled my Trib subscription so I'm not paying for these types of "newsworthy" articles.

Why do we care what Palin thinks? Why is the Trib publcizing her comments / posts?

I didn't even read the article.

This is a person who resigned from her Governor post before the first term was up b/c she didn't want to be in the public light anymore.

Just let her fade away...

BTW - I'm glad I cancelled my Trib subscription so I'm not paying for these types of "newsworthy" articles.

Instead of demonizing Ms. Palin the national healthcare supporters should read this bill and stop being spoonfed by the Administration. I'm satisfied with my coverage. When has the U S Gov. ever run anything smoothly? Some Democrats also oppose this bill as written, a skeleton with no meat. More info is needed. For the record, I'm not a Republican nor a Democrat. Both parties play the public for fools at one time or another.

Once we get past all the hate mail from both sides of the spectrum we might approach the issues, but until then we are spinning our wheels. Some of us with handicapped family members are concerned about having the government decide who gets what care. Having BO says it will not be a problem does not necessarily relieve those concerns.

Sarah Palin is a stupid twit and a perfect example of why Republicans are an irrelevant joke to the entire world. Go ahead Republicans, nominate her in 2012 and watch the worst defeat in the history of politics. I dare you.

AND, Sarah Palin is still as stupid as she was when she was an alleged governor...

Palin wants the media to "quit tellin' lies" - she will have to verify what she says BEFORE she tells these lies.

"Fact-Check" = False Cred

This group pretends to be objective and honest, but they are wrong so often that they are a joke. They use the name "Anneburg" to try and give themselves credibility, but the people who actually do the writing are liberals with an agenda. Don't be fooled folks, "Fact-Check" is just as phoney as the anchors at NBC, CBS, and ABC - they aren't objective and they are just reporting.

Prez Barry the Puppet is pure evil, not just his health care takeover.

How`s that white guilt vote working out for you IDIOTS? You getting what you wanted yet?

Posted by: Gary | August 9, 2009 7:05 AM

Yes, I'm getting exactly what I wanted: That lying, ignorant, hatemongering, morally bankrupt, hillbilly, demagogue as far away from power as possible.

I only read the first two sentences....ENOUGH..stop giving this fool any more publicity. She is dumb as a doorknob.

Palin is out of office and is of no concern. Keep your eye on Obama.

President Obama's economy fix so far is to kite another trillion-plus in new federal debt -- with billions if not trillions more yet to come.

His fix for Iraq is to draw down there and build up for another 8-10 minimum in Afghanistan.

And in response to his attempt to fix global warming via a carbon tax, massive polluters like India say, "No thanks!"

Now President Obama is working feverishly to 'fix' health care affordability in America.

No insurance scheme, public or private, for-profit or non-profit, can cover pre-existing conditions, offer uncapped lifetime benefits, and offer unrestricted end-of-life benefits without a massive and continuous bailout using additional funds from a different source. Such is the nature of insurance -- it can only work when predominantly not needed and the underlying risk costs are reasonably maintained and reasonably non-inflationary.

Yet President Pied Piper has convinced enough that an over-unity ROI is possible here and elsewhere with taxpayer money -- that hasn't even been printed yet no less. Getting enough people to forego common sense for wanting to believe certainly is Obama's self-serving over-unity ROI, but that won't solve our national problems. Rationing of health care will be the inevitable outcome of Obamacare.

Further, despite CBO numbers that always say the cost of Obama programs are higher than he says they will be, how dense are you not to recognize that a dollar five, ten, or twenty years from now will buy less of anything, let alone health care services?

Pretty dense.

And how dense are you to not make the link between future purchasing power of the dollar for anything, let alone health care services, and current Obama-sized federal deficits and debt?

Black-hole dense.

Fortunately -- as viewed from the middle -- continuously-falling approval numbers show that President Obama is running out of people who still want to believe it's raining when he takes a whiz on their legs.

Once again most of you are missing the point, Obama, Pelosi and Frank, have all said it is the first step to a single pay system. That is their goal. If the goverment has to insure the 50 million not insured, plus pay for those on medicade now and medicare, they would not have a choice but to limit care. Limiting care will cause deaths. Even by the wildest stretch of the imagination if the goverment didn't the lack of doctors would.
Get the insurance companies under control. Get the hospitals under control. Charging different amounts for the same procedures depending on what insurance you have is ridiculous. Reform torte laws. Stop the fraud in medicare and medicaid. All of these steps would bring down health costs.

I..a Democrat...fear Sarah Palin as much as I fear her baby with Down Syndrome. And by that I mean I would not want someone with Down Syndrome to be President of the United States. We have nothing to fear from the birthers because their 50's mentality will expire with them as they slowly die off in the upcoming years. Hopefully with no health insurance.

McCain was and is a good man, although I didn't vote for him. It must pain him every day to wake up and see news accounts of this blathering, hillbilly idiot Sara Palin. The fact she forces herself on the political stage, even after cowardly resigning her job, is very disturbing -- especially because she can only rely on making such outlandish falsehoods in order to garner any publicity. Next time she should just visit a theater and scream "Fire!" so people will pay attention to her.

Congratulations, Helen Johnson. You obviously have not read an actual bill. However, you have obviously learned how to use the "copy and paste" function on your computer. Now, please learn how to use your own "read and think" functions. By the way, if you Google any of the lines from Helen's post, you can find thousands of hits online for this nonsense, printed word-for-word on other blogs. But if you do some careful searching, you can also find information to debunk the fear-mongering in this list of lies.

Davey S-The healthcare reform is simply an option. Like deciding between an HMO or PPO. And, yes, if you take it, you become subject to its' terms. Like any other health insurance.
--------------------------------------------
I don't beleive so.

"INCLUSION OF SPECIFIC INFORMATION.—The written notice under subparagraph (A) must explain an employee’s right to opt out of being automatically enrolled in a plan and in the case that more than one level of benefits or employee premium level is offered by the employer involved, the notice must explain which level of benefits and employee premium level the employee will be automatically enrolled in the
absence of an affirmative election by the employee."

As I read it, if you don't take an employer private plan, you'll be automatically enrolled in the Government plan.

So what is the former governors main source of news ? The National Enquirer ?

I think a good strategy to discourage this kind of Republican drivel is actually to validate it and carry it forward to the most nonsensical, bizarro conclusion possible. Obama death panel? Hmmm, we should launch an inquiry into how many seniors and disabled children will be killed per annum by the death panel. Obama born in Kenya? Hmmm, we should launch a bipartisan committee for this most serious concern. Obama a secret Muslim? Wow, that's serious. We should really look into that. Evolution being taught in the schools? We should form a commission to see whether the last 200 years of scientific progress is truly valid or whether we should scrap it. Bailing out banks in an economic crisis? Hmmm, we should send a crack panel of Republicans to determine if the 30-40% unemployment rate during the Great Depression was just liberal fuzzy math.

Sarah Palin is the gift that keeps giving to the Democratic party. Please, please, keep it up, Sarah.

Palin is apparently brain-dead, and should be concerned about end of life issues.

I do believe this is what she thinks the plan does. Of course she can see Russia from Alaska too.

Who is still listening to this crackpot?

Sarah Palin:
"…will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care,"

Hahah I LOVE Sarah Palin for exactly these stunts. Every time she attempts to communicate, she makes such a complete fool of herself. Sure she speaks her mind, but what's on her mind is pure gold in terms of entertainment. Death panel, give me a break! I'm just dying to know though, how do her supporters NOT get insulted that she presumes they are so lacking in intelligence by continuing to preach such nonsense? I mean, come on, any idiot with a soapbox is going to attract mindless followers, look at Manson, Hitler etc. I guess I just never realized how dim some of these right-wingers really are.

Who cares what Palin thinks. She is a national joke. What IS disturbing is that the government removed the price negotiation part so Pharma can overcharge what they want. (Then run campaigns how our faulty live styles are what is behind the high cost of health care.) If pharma is behind this bill, it can't be good, their execs are as evil as bankers.

I am sorry that I didn't get to tell the president how much I stand besides him. That I am so happy that a person of color - So all people have color and it shouldn't be the color of a persons skin that decides the persons right to speak and me heard, taken seriously for what the message is - That as a nation WITH DIVERSE POPULATIONS - I AM ASKING WHY are go many persons trying to kill me. It isn't a paranoid thing. I have has a direct threat to my life by a drug crazed alcoholic named Darryl Reeves. I had petitionen the Local court for a restraining order from Darryl Reeves and all members of his immediate and extended Family. Yana DOESN'T DRINK hasn't since the age of 20 something .I'm M.A.D.D. - as in M.others Against Drunk Driving. I'm S.A.D.D. as in S.tudents, A.gainst,D.runk, D.riving. And I'm endangered of becoming extinct. To have had my HEALTH DESTROYED - the stress of Cancer and a direct threat to me life by a crazed alcoholic. Help

I am sorry that I didn't get to tell the president how much I stand besides him. That I am so happy that a person of color - So all people have color and it shouldn't be the color of a persons skin that decides the persons right to speak and me heard, taken seriously for what the message is - That as a nation WITH DIVERSE POPULATIONS - I AM ASKING WHY are go many persons trying to kill me. It isn't a paranoid thing. I have has a direct threat to my life by a drug crazed alcoholic named Darryl Reeves. I had petitionen the Local court for a restraining order from Darryl Reeves and all members of his immediate and extended Family. Yana DOESN'T DRINK hasn't since the age of 20 something .I'm M.A.D.D. - as in M.others Against Drunk Driving. I'm S.A.D.D. as in S.tudents, A.gainst,D.runk, D.riving. And I'm endangered of becoming extinct. To have had my HEALTH DESTROYED - the stress of Cancer and a direct threat to me life by a crazed alcoholic. Help

Sarah Palin is an evil liar. Why she continues to try to dupe Americans is clear; she believes it will advance her career. We are not as stupid as she believes. Go fishing Sarah!

Google: "Wendell Potter and Bill Moyers" or click the following link:

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch2.html

Potter is the former Vice-President of Cigna and has spilled the beans on the insurance industry's dirty tricks and how it controls Congress.

Demand a Medicare for all, single payer plan, HR 676.

Oh yeah, Ms. Palin is just plain goofy.

Mrs. (Goebbels) Palin reports from the bunker.

I've changed my mind about Mrs. Palin for the positive. She must have read the entire proposed legislation and understood it. Congratulations to her. During the campaign it became evident that she couldn't think. But least now we know she can read.

"Seasoned" health care writer Ricardo Alonso-Zalvidar?
Is he seasoned with paprika or oregano?

She looks like that female Gremlin from Gremlins.

However everyone would love to jump on this and use it as a cover to lump all well-reasoned criticism of ObamaCare as outrageous, the fact remains that the Congressional Budget Office has predicted a 1.5 trillion deficit beyond the first ten years of this program. This should come as no surprise, when the very European systems Obama is trying to emulate are currently suffering severe budget shortfalls (France and Britain most prominently).

Even if we liked it (and most of us don't since it will necessarily result in rationing and problems with access), we still couldn't afford it.
The better way to reform healthcare is still tort reform to help decrease the useless cost of tests which are purely and taking down the barriers to buying insurance across state lines. We all can agree that healthcare reform is needed; what we don't believe is that Obama's proposal will do more good than harm. No amount of repetition of Palin's remarks can reverse these facts.

We should first ask ourselves if Sarah Palin or health care reform is the real issue and a few other questions. I believe almost everyone would agree the issue is health care and reform is needed. Why is TORT not a first priority? Reform TORT and we're well on our way to health care reform. How many new government agencies would be created to manage a 1000+ page health care reform that our congressmen can't read or understand? How efficient and how cost effective has the federal government been in the past? Do we really want a single payer system that several in this administration have said is their preference? How does adding forty some million folks to this country's insured not limit, if not ration, my health care? Do we want our prospects of "future contribution to society" to influence what medical care we receive?

Only Sarah Palin can protect us from witches and dinosaurs.

I am terrified of Obama's plan, and will white knuckle the next 3.5 years. Ms. Palin is simply giving her opinion. Is there something wrong with that here in the land of the free? God bless us all.

First appointment to Death Panel?

See:

http://notionscapital.wordpress.com/2009/08/09/paula-abdul-named-to-obama-death-panel/

A few short hours ago the Wacko Democratic Senators went intro town hall meetings, and said they were being attacked by Crazies who were complaining about a health care bill which hasn't been finished yet. Now these same Wacko's are saying that certain things are not part of the bill. Well you can't have it both ways. Either the bill has been completed or it hasn't. The Wacko Liberals don't get to choose what we can talk about, and what we can't. Welcome to the new world order of obama. I choose to talk about a Health Care Bill which is absurd at best. What Wacko except a liberal would accept a plan which would decrease coverage, and medical care, but at that same time increase cost. Have the citizens of the U.S. lost their minds, or is the Kool Aid rumor really true.

"When has the U S Gov. ever run anything smoothly?" asks Lisabeth.
Try Medicare. Why don't you advocate taking that successful program away from the seniors. See how far you get. And keep fanning the flames of misinformation.

Boy you liberals are something else. Are you so scare of Sarah because she speaks the truth and you just can handle the fact that you voted for the worst president in the history of the US? You must also think that Joe Biden is a genius, don't you? I have 3 letter for you "J - O - B -S.

Boy you liberals are something else. Are you so scare of Sarah because she speaks the truth and you just can handle the fact that you voted for the worst president in the history of the US? You must also think that Joe Biden is a genius, don't you? I have 3 letter for you "J - O - B -S.

That's okay, Sarah. When health care reform passes, you may be able to get your lobotomy without paying a cent.

With the escalating standard of Republican craziness and thuggery over recent days, I'd been wondering if Palin would feel pressed to get back into the game, if for no other reason than to defend her title as chief Republican whackjob.

"I have 3 letter for you "J - O - B -S."
Posted by: Dusty

3 letters?
And you're a Sarah fan.
Wow our educational system is worse than I thought.

Dusty,
So you agree, there will be 'death panels'??
She sounds like the scared one.

Anywho, lets have some fun. Here is my submission for members of the 'death panel'!!

Dick Cheney
Sarah Palin
Glenn Beck
G Liddy
Mike Savage

I think all these people would truly love their work.

Mrs. Palin would be laughable if there weren't so many people hanging on her every word. If ignorance is bliss, she has to be one happy idiot.
The right is wrong, and no amount of conservative rhetoric or down right thuggery will change that. If Palin is the standard bearer of thr party, then God help the Republicans

I don't beleive so.

"INCLUSION OF SPECIFIC INFORMATION.—The written notice under subparagraph (A) must explain an employee’s right to opt out of being automatically enrolled in a plan and in the case that more than one level of benefits or employee premium level is offered by the employer involved, the notice must explain which level of benefits and employee premium level the employee will be automatically enrolled in the
absence of an affirmative election by the employee."

As I read it, if you don't take an employer private plan, you'll be automatically enrolled in the Government plan.

Posted by: MAJMark | August 9, 2009 12:21 PM

No, that's simply NOT what its says. What that paragraph says is that if your employer has multiple plan options, they must tell you which of the multiple plan options they offer you will be enrolled in, if you do not fill out the form telling them which plan you want to be enrolled in, or if you do not want to be enrolled in any of their plans.. It says NOTHING about enrolling you in the optional government plan.

* * * * *
Posted by: Roscoe | August 9, 2009 3:47 PM
.
Roscoe,
.
I think Lisabeth hasn’t answered because she’s still in shock (or still laughing), so I’ll answer for her.
.
Medicare will be bankrupt in eight years. If someone ran a company into bankruptcy, I wouldn’t call it being run “smoothly” unless bankruptcy was the goal. As far as I know, nobody intended Medicare to go into the toilet. It is going bankrupt as the foreseeable but unintended consequence of allowing Congress to siphon its funds to pay for other projects, much like Social Security is. In which case, your use of Medicare (or SS, or any other gimme program) an example of a “smoothly” run government program is a sick joke.
.
Go back and tell your senior friends that they will be hosed in eight years because of incompetent boobs in government. You can also tell them that part of the Democrat health care plans (or at least one of them) is to trash the senior advantage program that helps them with their managed care. Have fun.

That's okay, Sarah. When health care reform passes, you may be able to get your lobotomy without paying a cent.

Posted by: Humanist | August 9, 2009 4:20 PM

maybe she can get her jaw wired shut at the same time.

We can always count on John W, who doesn't have the guts to admit he's a Republican, to show up and divert attention from their misdeeds, can't we? Yep, you betcha we can! Sarah Palin tells an outright lie, of truly awful proportions, and here he is ranting about the Democrats, and not a single solitary word about the lie. No instead he's outraged that subsidies to insurance companies from the Federal Government might be cut. Yeah, John, we all know you're a "Libertarian" (of the "No help for individuals, But lots of help for big corporations" branch of the Libertarian movement) but that doesn't stop you from doing your best to distract from the moral and intellectual bankruptcy of the Republican party.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-08-04-healthcare_N.htm

I have the honesty and integrity to post an article discussing both sides of the debate about the Medicare Advantage program, unlike John W who just fearmongers like Sarah Palin. Don't listen to the demagogues like them. They aren't interested in the truth. They aren't interested in honest debate. No, their goal is to prevent honest debate by any means necessary. If anything is a sick joke, it is the moral and ethical bankruptcy of Sarah Palin, and her assistants like John W.

Read the bill. There is a health care choices commission created and there is a commission on "quality" which will require all health care plans to adopt the medical standards that are dictated from Washington. Of course they are not transparent. What Palin is talking about is already happening. Most parents of Down Syndrome babies abort them as soon as they learn that they are Downs Syndrome. They are advised to do so by this whole society in the belief that allowing a Downs Syndrome child to be born is a waste of resources. IT isn't about quality of life. The average Downs Syndrome person is fairly happy. This kind of medical rationing IS ALREADY GOING ON IN ENGLAND AND CANADA. USING SIMILAR BOARDS. This is not some irrational fear-- this is where we are headed if Obama gets his way. Tens of Thousands of Canadians come to the U. S. each year for health care they can't get in Canada. What will happen when we go the way of Canadian health care? Already your chances of surviving almost any kind of cancer are far better here than in Great Britain or Canada because we have advanced drugs that the British and Canadian Socialized systems won't pay for. And you won't have the option of paying for it yourself. Recently a woman in Great Britain did that and was told that she could no longer receive any other health care benefits under their system. I am not making this up. Do some research. All of us paranoid Republicans are afraid because we see in this legislation that the government will, through the health insurance exchanges, and the so called quality assurance measures be given the ability to control all of our health care and was see what happens in other countries where this is true. Palin is not lying. She sees what they are doing and is telling the truth. The "standing in front of board" is metaphorical. There will be a board, but you and I will never be allowed to talk to it. It will hand down "standards" and if your doctor and hospital don't comply they will not be allowed to treat patients who have health insurance any more,

Slow down everyone - if you don't like the lady that's O.K, but if you truly believe in your heart this healthcare package is for you, than let us insist that "what's good for the goose is good for the gander."

Our government should flush their existing insurance down the toilet and join us for the "Good Stuff."

As Always, Annie

Are you people so ignorant that you simply don't know what the Obama administration is up to? Palin wasn't referring to the bill, itself. She was referring to the people very close to Obama, who are (and for many years have been) advising him on social reform. The "death panel" comment is connected to the socialist principle of "personal contribution," which Obama and his closest advisors wholeheartedly believe in.

You might want to try reading more than internet blogs to get your information. Perhaps you could read some U.S. History? How about some Political Science? I'm fed up with people who ignore the facts in order to conjure up their own truth. The problem with this postmodern progressive ideal is that truth is not achieved when based upon a series of lies. Obama and his entire administration have based their policies and accompanying propaganda on nothing but lies.

If you were truly intelligent, you would understand that postmodern progressives are not looking to have their radical agenda accepted without objection. This fight is exactly what they want! While you folks focus on what Palin said, and other stupid shallow stuff, our history is being rewritten, our society is being redesigned, and our economy is being re-engineered. Please wise up!

Al
Lawton, Oklahoma

Can you proof it ........ sorry but I'm not agree with your statement.

You can do all the Palin bashing you want and it still won't change tha fact that she is RIGHT. I have read this bill and it is in there seeing a counselor of the government's chooseing and it is Mandatory right now it is your choice as it should be but in this plan at age 65 it is mandatory. Incase you don't know what Mandatory means look it up in the dictionary it means no choice as with much of this bill so it is hard toargue if you haven't read it it is also hard to vote on also.I also don't want the government having acsses to my bank account to take money out this is also mandatory. So read the bill and stop saying it isn't in there when it is clearly there.

"Already your chances of surviving almost any kind of cancer are far better here than in Great Britain or Canada because we have advanced drugs that the British and Canadian Socialized systems won't pay for. "

Anopther outright lie from Right. The survival rate for cancer in Canada and England is HIGHER than it is in the US.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_dea_fro_can-health-death-from-cancer

These Republicans , led by their evil Demagogue Sarah Palin, will not hestitate to lie about healthcare. Believe nothing they say without checking out the facts for yourself.

It's not evil to want health care for 40+ million people who need it, including many children. It is evil to use rhetoric like the word "evil" to incite people.

Wow. I can't believe the level of hatred towards Sarah Palin. Add it to Pelosi saying protesters are un-American, and we have the Thought Gestapo on display!
People, it is not about Health care, it is about WHO will pay for it! I for one, do not trust the govt to handle anything fairly & competently. And we all know that once the feds get their hands in it, the final product looks far different from the original concept.
Also, why hasn't the media made any mention that the Emanuels seem to be in charge in this new administration: Rahm - White House chief of staff and Ezekiel -
president's health care advisor. Doesn't anyone find this odd?

Well. Let's talk about evil health plans, shall we?

If ypou nwant to see a truly evile proposal for healtcare reform, you need look no farther than the Budget cuts that Gov. Schwarzennegger and the Republican proposed in California. They proposed to completely eliminate all funding to help pay for healcthcare for lower income children. That's right ALL funding. Their proposal would have had premature infants pulled out of incubators if their parents could nor pay. Their proposal would have left tens of thousands of children without any access to even the most basic healthcare because thier parents din't earn enough. That's what healthcare reform means to Republicans, like Palin: dying poor children. That's evil, pure evil.

The YAFFers were having their convention and CSpan has just run the loony closing speaker Kate something or other....

What was surprising was the extent to which the YAFFers in the audience were questioning Palin's departure, the reasons for it, etc. etc.

As LBJ might say, if Palin has lost the YAFFers, she is finished as a candidate.

Tho she can still be the designated hitter, can't she?

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Posted by: John W is a Republican apologist | August 9, 2009 10:13 PM
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1. I am not a Republican. This is not a question of personal integrity. It is a question of fact. My views are Libertarian and I am registered to vote in California as a registered Libertarian. End of subject.
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2. I don't particularly care what Sarah Palin or Republicans say. If I agree with them from time to time, it isn't because I assume the correctness of Republican talking points. I agree with them when what they say happens to coincide with my own views.
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3. Not having completely read any one of the health care bills out there, I have no occasion to evaluate whether Sarah Palin is telling the truth or playing a whacko. In which case, I also have no basis to agree with you that Sara Palin is telling an outright lie "of truly awful proportions." (But see Susan Salisbury's post, above.) Frankly, I doubt that you have enough information to make that judgment either. I would hate to call her a liar and see her claim turn out to be true.
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You see, unlike you, I am not willing to trust administration officials and/or supporters who claim she is not being truthful. The administration has been less than candid with us on a lot of issues lately, and it has a tendency to put a positive spin on bad facts. I'm not even certain that BO knows entirely what is in any one of these bills. Moreover, there are differences between various versions which have yet to be hammered out. In which case, the administration's defense of a health care bill that hasn't been completed is a little less than reassuring.
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4. I am not "outraged that subsidies to insurance companies from the Federal Government might be cut." Cutting subsidies wasn't the issue. Roscoe (the poster to whom I addressed my post) expressed outrage over the idea that someone might cut Medicare for seniors. I was merely pointing out to him that, in fact, at least one of the Democrat plans cuts Medicare for seniors by largely eliminating the "senior advantage" program in which the government subsidizes seniors' HMO payments. The point I was making to Roscoe is that the very thing he feared may well come to fruition in one of the Democrat plans. The article you cited proved what I was saying.
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5. And then you claim I'm not telling the truth? Show me where I am being untruthful. The only other thing I pointed out was that Medicare is going bankrupt in eight years - thus debunking Roscoe's idea that Medicare is an example of a "smoothly" run government program. The government candidly admits that the Medicare fund will be depleted by 2017. See http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TRSUM/index.html - and - http://www.midwestfreepress.com/2009/05/14/bankruptcy-looms-for-medicare-social-security/ So where is the falsehood? You have no basis to claim "honesty and integrity" when you make such obviously false claims about others.

Too bad you can't bring yourself to call a lie a lie, and not fall back on "opponents refute" wording that makes it sound like both Palin and factcheck.org have equivalent points to make...

WHY DID PALIN QUIT??She saw the writings on the wall.This woman,just can't stop.She violates every American rule we have...RUDE with no grace at all.I think we must investigate her more during her term as governor..it makes me shidder that this woman utters evil words on President Bam and the next day she discuss..CIVILITY,what a crazy stupidity.

I've read the bills John W. I can say Palin's claim is a lie. I inform myself on important matters, rather than parading my ignorance like you. Why don't you ask for the Republicans to quote the section of the bill which creates the "Death Panel" and gives it the ability to decide that Trig Palin should die? The bills are out there. It should be pretty simple to find the "Death Panel" section in any bill. Your distrust of the Democrats and blind trust of the Republicans doesn't really enter into the discussion. It's in the bill or it isn't. This isn't a matter of opinion, it's a matter of simple fact. Don't be so gullible and believe whatever any political party tells you. Read for yourself. Are the bills to hard for you to understand? That's the only reason I can think of that any individual wouldn't check out the claim of "Death Panels" for themselves. I mean, if you really though it was possible that the bill included "Death Panels" to kill children, wouldn't you want to know exactly what it says, especially if you are going to enter into debate about the plans? You, on the other hand, are proud to proclaim your ignorance of the facts.

You are so partisan against the Democrats that you are willing to let any lie, no matter how vile, go unanswered as long as it makes the Democrats look bad. A bad joke on a late night talk show about Palin drives you to fits of rage, but a false claim that Obama wants to kill Trig Palin, that's just dandy with you. What a sad, sick joke you are. A perfect Republican. They couldn't ask for better.

There are actually people dumb enough to believe that Palin might be right about the "DeathPanel" ? I mean how stupid would you have to be to believe that something like that would go unoticed in a bill? All these folks ranting about the bill being a "thousand pages" long, like it's impossible for anyone to ever read anything longer than an issue of Sports Illustrated. Have we really fallen so low as a culture that we get dimwits who accept the the "death Panel" might be in the bill without having any more evidence than Palin's tweet and a base distrust of the Government? The bill is publically available, for anyone to read. Why do people keep believing this garbage? Are they just too stupid to understand it?

Sara Palin has been the one clear voice in all the din. She works hard for her constituents and is obviously a concern of the socialist-loving Obama lap dogs! Keep up the good fight Sara, millions of nonpolitical American patriots are behind you! E. Goins MD

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Posted by: John W is a Republican Apologist | August 10, 2009 4:27 PM
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You are a whack job to the Nth Degree.
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1. I have a job that limits the time I can spend reading the 1,600 plus pages of legislation. In which case, it isn’t my reading comprehension that limits me and I wasn’t parading my ignorance. Contrary to your basic misapprehension of the facts, I hadn’t taken a side on whether Palin was being truthful, and I wasn’t relying on Republicans to supply the truth. Only a dull minded dolt (like you) would conclude that I had fallen into the Republican camp on this issue.
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I simply stated that I wasn’t prepared to voice an opinion without having read the bills. I could very well have come to the conclusion that Palin wasn’t being truthful if given the time to read the text in context. I exercised restraint, not gullibility. It’s called ‘not jumping to conclusions.’ You should try it some time.
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2. My ire over the cold blooded remarks against Sarah Palin and her daughter had nothing to do with partisanship. I would have been equally incensed had the same remarks been leveled against Barack Obama and his family, or anyone else. When the issue came up, I made it clear that the conduct was unacceptable behavior regardless of the intended target. It’s too bad you were too dull to capture that message.
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3. I’ll tell you what I think about Sarah Palin’s representations after I have made up my own mind. But I’ll make up my mind on my own time schedule rather than yours. In the meantime, I would appreciate it if you would stop lying about me.

PG 489 Sec 1308 The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage

The govt. is already inserted into our marriages by way of attempting to define marriage and tell us who we can and cannot marry.

Yeah, John, a late night joke deserves immediate and vehement condemnation, but accusing a President of promoting legislation to kill innocent children is not worth your time. I can see your deep bipartisanship and fairness. Accusing someone of murderous intent isn't cold blooded to you? If you aren't a Republican, you sure make a great useful idiot for them. They couldn't ask for a better person than you to carry their water. If you're concerned about lying, perhaps you should check into Sarah Palin's Big Lie. Until you do any pretense you make at caring about the truth is a hollow charade. Until you do any pretense you make at having ethics is equally pathetic. Until you do, any attempt you make to discuss this issue will be clear as the partisan propaganda, ignorant of the most basic facts, or dishonest about the most basic facts that it is.

She doesn't need to be concerned, Trig is eligible for government insurance because of the First Dude's Indian heritage.

Todd Palin and the Palin children are entitled to federally funded comprehensive health care because of Todd’s Native Alaskan ancestry. The Dept. of Health and Human Services provides comprehensive coverage through the Indian Health Service for people like Todd Palin and his children, who trace their Yup’ik heritage back to Todd Palin’s maternal grandmother.

In other news...

http://www.adn.com/life/health/story/864670.html

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Posted by: John W is a Republican apologist | August 10, 2009 10:10 PM
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The late night defamatory remarks of David Letterman were unambiguously despicable. Whether Sarah Palin was telling a lie requires a determination as to whether what she said can be reconciled with a reasonable reading of any part of 1,600 pages of legislative text. A reasonable person would have known that. No surprise that you missed that too.
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I have no “bipartisanship.” Bipartisanship refers to those places of agreement or compromise shared by both Republicans and Democrats. I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican, and I am often in disagreement with both parties. How small minded of you to use that word.
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You prove your left-lunacy by continuing to claim that I am a Republican water carrier. Listen, pal, If I was a Republican water carrier I would have already decided that Sarah Palin was telling the truth, and I would have made that determination based on Republican propaganda. I have done neither. It is only your undying (and insipid) partisanship that makes you believe I have to agree with you out of the gates. I don’t have to agree with you, the Democrats, the Republicans, independents, Martians or anyone else - until and unless I have read enough to make that determination for myself. You are just in a big hurry to accuse, condemn and engage in name calling. Put a sock in it.

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Posted by: John W is a Republican apologist | August 10, 2009 10:10 PM
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PS - I wonder whether you really understand what Sarah Palin actually said. She never claimed that the health care system would “kill innocent children” in the sense that someone could authorize a child to be euthanized. Her exact statement was:
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"The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care, …"
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In other words, she was expressing distaste for the idea that some committee could vote to cut off health care to the handicapped or elderly. Whether or not this is true is the question that must be answered by comparison of her statements to the 1,600 pages of legislation.
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But, if you got it wrong (just like Obama, Dean and, apparently, Mark Silva), don’t worry. You’re in good company (if you’re a Democrat).

Ok John W, hide behind your ignorance. (Which probably explains your attachment to Palin, the Queen of Ignorance). I guess if I was as ignorant as you, I'd be tempted to hide behind it too. At least we all know that anything you say about healthcare reform should be completely disregarded because of your acknowleged lack of knowledge of the subject. I would hope that your admitted ignorance would keep you from pontificating in the healthcare threads in the future, but I have a feeling we will contimue to be treated to your fact free, wall of words posts again and again.

Oh, and PS John, we all understand that you chose to not look into Palin's Big Lie, because you don't want to run the risk of actually having to criticize her, or any Republican for that matter. No, better to bury your head in the sand than to consider the possibility that the Republicans are shamelessly lying about such an important issue. That might upset your Democrats Evil, Republicans Good world view. You certainly wouldn't want the facts to interfere in your thinking!

Reading these comments, I find that most are sane people who see her for what she is. But the number of people actually commenting to SUPPORT Palin scares me!! She's an outright liar, and SOME people are giving her kudos. Come on! How dumb are you people? It's truly amazing to me that these people glorify willful ignorance of the facts and blind hatred towards anything Obama. They refuse to listen to anything except what Rush and the other right wing nutjobs tell them.

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Posted by: John W is a Republican apologist | August 11, 2009 2:39 PM
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Posted by: John W is a Republican Apologist | August 11, 2009 2:47 PM
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1. I have criticized Sarah Palin in the past. I clearly and unambiguously stated that Sarah Palin does not have the education or political sagacity to be a public leader, and that she shouldn’t seek further office. I also criticized her for her bizarre resignation speech. I also expressed my relief that she isn’t likely to regain public prominence in politics. As such, I have neither any attachment to Sarah Palin nor any fear of criticizing her. I am sorry you missed all the posts in which I said these things. But, of course, I’m sure you weren’t looking either. Making a positive statement in default of knowledge that I had criticized her make you a liar (still).
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2. You completely misunderstand my view of Democrats and Republicans. I do not believe, for instance, that Democrats are all evil and that Republicans are good. I think both parties are capable of little good and a great deal of evil. I have substantial disagreement with both parties. I think they are all a bunch of right-wing statists who are marching this country toward fascism. I also think you are a drone who doesn’t think for himself, and that you could care less about genuine freedom. Then again, you are likely the unfortunate victim of an education system that favors the progressive agendum and disfavors a love of freedom and independence.
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3. I certainly will weigh in on the question of health care. I will inform myself of issues before commenting, if for no other reason that I really hate being inaccurate. (Which is why I also refused to weigh in on what Sarah Palin said.) I also have views on the very nature of the health care bill which do not require any extensive knowledge of the plan’s details. And if you don’t like it when I weigh in, that’s just too bad.
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4. BTW - You still have yet to favor me with what exactly was Sarah Palin’s lie. Do you think she said the plan authorized euthanasia (like so many Democrat leaders erroneously do)? Or, perhaps, you correctly surmised that she was complaining about the possibility of seniors and handicapped people being denied health care at some point? Or maybe you think she was lying simply because she’s a Republican and opened her mouth. If it was the second option, can you show me where in either of the health care bills there is language which refutes the notion that health care providers are absolutely barred from denying a person any health care because of age or physical handicap? (And don’t cite the part about pre-existing conditions. That’s only a bar to denying coverage at all. It’s not a bar to denying specific treatment to people based on post coverage developments.) Is there anything in the bill that prohibits the “Health Benefits Advisory Committee” headed by the Surgeon General from determining that the minimum benefits in a federally qualified health benefits plan do not have to include medical treatment that will not prolong the lives of the aged or handicapped? (See Sections 122-124 of the House bill.) If you can’t, you are the one who has no place to speak about any of this.
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Sarah Palin could be mistaken about the details of the plan and yet be correct in her assumption that people signed up for a plan under Obamacare could be denied health care services for age and physical disability related problems. If that’s the case, I would hardly characterize her statements as intentionally deceptive. Unless her statements were intentionally deceptive, I can’t call them a lie. That’s to be contrasted with someone like you who makes all kinds of accusations without the slightest shred of truth to them.

" Unless her statements were intentionally deceptive, I can’t call them a lie. That’s to be contrasted with someone like you who makes all kinds of accusations without the slightest shred of truth to them.
Posted by: John W. | August 11, 2009 5:22 PM"

But! But! That's HER and the rest of the 'town hall mob', JW.

"If it was the second option, can you show me where in either of the health care bills there is language which refutes the notion that health care providers are absolutely barred from denying a person any health care because of age or physical handicap?"

I certainly can.
SEC. 111. PROHIBITING PRE-EXISTING CONDITION EXCLUSIONS.

A qualified health benefits plan may not impose any pre-existing condition exclusion (as defined in section 2701(b)(1)(A) of the Public Health Service Act) OR otherwise impose ANY limit or condition on the coverage under the plan with respect to an individual or dependent based on ANY health status-related factors (as defined in section 2791(d)(9) of the Public Health Service Act) in relation to the individual or dependent.

SEC. 152. PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATION IN HEALTH CARE.

(a) In General- Except as otherwise explicitly permitted by this Act and by subsequent regulations consistent with this Act, all health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act shall be provided without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services."

The first clause says that benefits cannot be denied based on pre-existing conditions OR based on any health status related factors not limited to pre-exisitng conditions.

The second clause says that benefits cannot be denied in regard to any personal characteristics un realted to health (The health characteristics being covered under the first clause. In addition, you may want to read to section on rescission. Your health insurance will only be able to be rescinded by your carrier based on clear evidence of fraud, and not for any other reason.

" Is there anything in the bill that prohibits the “Health Benefits Advisory Committee” headed by the Surgeon General from determining that the minimum benefits in a federally qualified health benefits plan do not have to include medical treatment that will not prolong the lives of the aged or handicapped?"

Why on earth would any healthcare plan, public or private be required by a set of minimum standards to provide treatments which "will NOT prolong the lives of the aged or handicapped."

Let's also be honest in that any health insurance scheme will not cover all procedures for all patients irregardless of their health status as a blanket statement. No insurance, public or private, is going to garuantee that they will cover a knee replacement surgery for a 98 year old man who has terminal lung cancer. If that's what you are looking for, you are looking for a fantasy.

The reality is that the plan being discussed actually provides kids like Trig with MORE protection than they have now, my setting minimum standards, and by ensuring that ALL can be covered, as noted in the clauses above.

Now John it's your turn. Please provude me the section of the bill that creates a "Death Panel" where individuals willl have to appear before bureaucrats to prove they are worthy of healthcare based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,'". In fact, find me anywhere in the bill where it discusses making healthcare judgements based on the "level of productivity in society" of individuals.

You, Palin, and the rest of the Republicans are making very serious charges. I think you have some burden to provide proof of you charges rather than depending on others to refute your outlandish, paranoid claims.
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Posted by: C.Morris✧ | August 11, 2009 8:52 PM
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You know, I have such a low opinion of Sarah Palin’s ability to comprehend and communicate that I sincerely doubt what you are saying. I can see how she could have gotten confused by such big words as “committee” and “health care” and come to believe that we will all get health care by individualized committee decision. Either that, or her misapprehension was something induced by the misinformation of others. Either way, she could well have misunderstood that the role of the committee is to determine the minimum benefits required in a qualified federal health care plan. (I mean, you don’t think she read the bill herself, do you?)
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On the other hand, I share her concern that the “committee” tasked to determine the benefits in a qualified health care program might short change people who might have different health needs in the future. Once the committee sets the minimums, the health care provider will have no legal duty to provide any more benefits than what are contained in the plan at a given premium. This really could pose problems to those with limited income. It has the potential of enabling insurance companies and HMOs to ration care even more than they do now. I mean, you don’t think the qualified federal health care plan providers are going to get generous and add more to the minimum package at the lowest rates, do you? What makes this down-side scenario possible is the fact that the health care benefits won’t be determined until 18 months or so after the bill is passed. We are inheriting air by investing in this thing.

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Posted by: John W is a Republican Apologist | August 11, 2009 11:27 PM
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1. Contrary to your understanding of sections 111 and 152, there is actually a lot of wiggle room available to deny coverage of specific conditions related to age and physical ability.
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Section 111 doesn’t say exactly what you think it says. It says a “qualified health care plan” can’t impose exclusions on the basis of pre-existing conditions or impose limits and conditions with regard to health status-related factors. A “qualified health care plan” is something the health care/insurance provider offers. Thus, this language is primarily a limitation on the power of health care/insurance providers to deny coverage to anyone or to limit services to less than those included in the minimum health care package defined by the “Health Benefits Advisory Committee.” This section says nothing about the power of the Secretary of Department of Health and Human Services (“SDHHS”) or the “Health Benefits Advisory Committee” (“HBAC”) to frame exclusions that can apply to the “qualified health care plan” offered by the provider.
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This brings us to Section 152. This section says an awful lot without actually saying anything. It could be reworded in plain English to say, “There shall be no discrimination with regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services - except as provided by statute or regulation.” The text of the section provides for exceptions under the act (which can always be added by amendment) or by regulation. Congress doesn’t write regulations; federal agencies do. In which case, the Department of Health and Human Services (the likely culprit) could always draft exclusions as long as they are “consistent with this Act . . .” (Sec. 152) and without congressional approval.
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I also have some concern, in this regard, over the meaning of Sec. 1177 of the bill. Sec. 1177(a) specifically amends 42 U.S.C. § 1395w–28(f)(1), to change the expiration date to January 1, 2013 or January 1, 2016 (depending on the plan). In turn, section 1395w-28(f)(1) allows the SDHHS, by regulation, to “restrict the enrollment of individuals under the plan to individuals who are within one or more classes of special needs individuals” (with regard to a “specialized MA plan”). People eligible for such plans include “special needs individuals,” including those who are institutionalized, “entitled to medical assistance under a State plan . . .” or meet “such requirements as the Secretary may determine would benefit from enrollment in such” a plan for “…individuals with severe or disabling chronic conditions.” (See 42 U.S.C. § 1395w–28(b)(6.) This explicitly grants the SDHHS the power to exclude “special needs” individuals from certain plans by way of regulation. I can’t imagine from the broad language that it doesn’t include the handicapped or elderly. Section 1177 seems to indicate that exclusions for these people are “consistent with this act …” within the meaning of Section 152.
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Then there is the question of Sections 121 through 124. A health care provider’s plan can qualify as a “qualified health benefits plan” as long as it contains the essential (read: minimum) benefits that are adopted under Section 124. (Secs. 121& 203.) Section 124, in turn, gives the power to define the benefits to the “Health Benefits Advisory Committee” (which is defined and organized pursuant to section 123). The HBAC has the original task of defining the content of the benefits and amendments, and then of recommending them to the SDHHS. If approved, the essential (minimum) benefits are adopted as regulations. (See Secs. 123-124.)
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In other words, the actual benefits under the health care bill will not be defined until the HBAC fills in the blanks. Thus, if any category of treatment isn’t specifically included in the “essential” benefits package defined by the HBAC and adopted by regulation by the SHHS, a health care provider is under no duty to include such treatments in order to be considered the provider of a “qualified health benefits plan.” As indicated, a health care provider can offer “enhanced” or “premium” plans, but it only needs to offer a basic plan with “essential” coverage to be qualified. (See Sec. 203.) Thus, if the basic plan OMITS certain specialized services for ailments peculiar to the aged and disabled, a person too poor to buy anything more than the basic plan can be denied those specific services without the health care provider running afoul of the law. That, by itself, should give a person great pause to consider the wisdom of the legislative framework involved here. The need for the bill was precipitated by too many people being too poor to afford health care coverage. The actual provisions of the bill give with one hand and potentially take away with the other.
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In summary, while the law restrains health care providers from going below the minimum services floor - nothing in the bill prevents the government by law or regulation from limiting or denying certain disease or condition specific services by regulation. This is a problem. (And this is why I asked the questions I did.)
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2. You have again mistakenly lumped me together with Palin and the rest of the Republicans. I never said the bill contained a “death panel,” and I have made no “outlandish, paranoid” claims. In fact, I have taken no position on what the bill says until now, and I waited until I read enough of it to make some sense of it. (Why do you continue to make such obviously false statements like this?)
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And, insofar as Sarah Palin is concerned, she qualified what she meant by pointing out that her complaint was that the process could result in the denial of health care services to the handicapped or elderly. (I already pointed out to you that she didn’t say the bill authorized euthanasia - as Howard Dean and President Obama mistakenly assumed.) Her error consists in believing and/or representing that that denial of health services would be done by committee with regard to each individual patient. She either didn’t read the bill very well, was ill informed of its contents, or simply fabricated the part about the committee process of evaluating individual cases. (So, you see, I actually leave open the possibility that she was lying - as you claim. However, I have my doubt it for reasons I gave in my response to C.Morris, above.)
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On the other hand, she is not entirely incorrect (as shown above) in claiming that a “committee” (e.g. the HBAC) could lo-ball the essential services in a basic plan so that services peculiar to the aged and handicapped could be denied. There is also nothing in the bill that prevents the minimum “essential” benefits from shrinking by regulation and amendments thereto. This is, essentially a nice way of allowing health care entities to ration care with government approval. If this bill passes, you can just bet that the process of adding, amending and repealing regulations concerning services will remain the number one political football for decades to come. There will be downward pressure from the insurance and health care industries; and upward pressure from individuals and public interest groups. I’m not sure how you could be terribly happy with this - especially since the detailed content of the “essential” services won’t be defined until well after the bill’s passage (if that ever happens).
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So, now it’s your turn. Demonstrate from the language of the bill that what I say isn’t true. And be sure to use the correct canons of statutory construction when you do.

What you miss John W is that there are currently NO minimum limits for health insurance coverage. None. zero. zip. nada. Any health insurance company could deny coverage to the handicapped tomorrow if they so chose. Creating a minimum set of benefits would be an improvement over the current situation. Would it be possible for the minimum standards to be lacking? Yes. But as compared to no standards that is still far more protection for kids like Tripp than they have now. There is downward pressure on coverage NOW, and no floor what so ever on benefits. I can't imagine that you are terribly happy with this. I can't imagine that you think no minimum standards is superior to the creation of minimum standards through the democratic process, when you express the concern that the minimum standards proposed are not iron clad enough. Do you prefer having insurance companies decide what happens to kids like Tripp behind closed doors, with no input from anyone? The situation you (claim to) fear exists already. This make you argument and Palin's (if your apologetic for it is to be believed) argument just nonsensical. Nothing protects Tripp now and there is no means to get him the protection that you and Palin desire. Yet, the creation of such a mechanism is seen by both of you as taking away protections Tripp has never had.

If in your paranoid mind setting minimum standards where there are NONE now, in any way equates to what Palin said, then you are simply too far gone to be reached by logic or common sense. She either lied or is spectaculary ignorant. Yet neither upsets you a fraction as much as Letterman's joke. Odd priorities you have there John.

The again we can see how far disconnected you are from reality by comparing the blind rage you flew into at Letterman's joke about Palin, a ns the calm acceptance you have at the thought that Palin may have intentionally lied about an important issue to all americans.

By the way, John W, your buddy Palin has clarifed what she was talking about with her "Death Panel" panel remarks.

"President Obama can try to gloss over the effects of government authorized end-of-life consultations, but the views of one of his top health care advisors are clear enough,'' she writes. "It's all just more evidence that the Democratic legislative proposals will lead to health care rationing, and more evidence that the top-down plans of government bureaucrats will never result in real health care reform"

So contrary to your long winded apologetic for her, the basis of her claims for the "Death Panel" is the provision that requires the plan to pay if you choose to discuss end of life issues like hospice and living wills, with your doctor, every 5 years.

Care to spin her that contention as anything other than a lie? I'm sure you'll find some way to support her. After all, your are a Republican apologist.

Do you remember the movie Logans Run? Do you remember that in the movie when you reach a certain age you are put to death? This reform kind of reminds me of that movie. Do you really want the government to tell us if we can die of live? Maybe they should reinstate Dr. Kavorkian. Welcome to the land of the free and the home of the Brave!

"PG 489 Sec 1308 The Govt will cover Marriage & Family therapy. Which means they will insert Govt into your marriage"

How could someone come to this conclusion? Has our educational system slipped so far that people cannot discern simple logic? Therapy is performed by a liscenced healthcare practitioner, which, by law, is confidential. This part of the bill is simply allowing for assistance, therapy, for families who need it (something which most insurance providers do not allow for or impose a lifetime limit). It in no way implies that the government will be inserted into your marriage, and its not a mandate.

What a brilliant mind - seeing the words marriage and government in the same sentence and somehow interpreting that as meaning the government is "inserting itself into your marriage." How foolish.

And I read all of your assertions/interpretations of the bill - each one was tainted by preformed beliefs and were in no way logical or even halfway discernable. Go back to school.

As somebody brought up in the UK and now lives in New Zealand, I'm one of the many millions of non-US citizens agog at the rubbish we are hearing about our health services from the likes of Ms Palin. Here in NZ, a small tax levy covers us for all medical needs and all accident compensation. Both my wife and I actually have additional health insurance but in the last ten years we've never used it. My wife has has not had to use hers despite having breast cancer. She has received well over a million dollars worth of treatment paid for by the state - and this is not witch doctors - it's the best treatment currently available worldwide. Regular MRI scans, Herceptin every 3 weeks at $2000 a dose, six weekly consultations with oncologists. No questions, no reluctance and no 'death panel'.
Isn't it ironic that we get to use all the latest US drugs and technology while half of your citizens are denied it.

Democratic comments about Governor Sarah Palin indicate how much she is right, and how much you are afraid of her, but mostly afraid of knowing the truth! You are ignorant , uneducated , useless oxygen consuming creature. Take Obama plan and go for life counseling,….” PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Govt provides apprvd list of end of life resources, guiding you in death”

dear sarah: you must be an ostrich that has her head burried in a hole...you are a totally uneducated woman with no brains, where the heck did they dig you up from... you are a total digrace to women , why bother with politics, why don't you just shoot mouse...or drink beer with the guys, or have more grandchildren, you are totally inadequate....

dear sarah: you must be an ostrich that has her head burried in a hole...you are a totally uneducated woman with no brains, where the heck did they dig you up from... you are a total digrace to women , why bother with politics, why don't you just shoot mouse...or drink beer with the guys, or have more grandchildren, you are totally inadequate....